[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[someone123]

What kind of agreement has been reached with the developer on this?

At one point they were saying that it involved no provincial government money or something similar but that seems unlikely...

[phrenic]

Dont count on that...I can just hear it now. the money would be better to go into keeping ER's open they will be saying.

The thing is, technically the money would actually be better spent keeping ERs open. Keeping Nova Scotians healthy and making sure they have adequate access to health care is more important than a convention centre.

But, nothing will change with Nova Centre. It's important to the Halifax economy. Metro NDP MLAs (with the possible exception of Epstein) will see that.

[Barrington south]

But, nothing will change with Nova Centre. It's important to the Halifax economy. Metro NDP MLAs (with the possible exception of Epstein) will see that.

do you honestly think that socialists have, in the past, supported large economic\business development's on the sole basis that it good for the economy?...I think one should "wait and see" what NDP do, before jumping to the conclusion, that what they will do what is logical, sensible and beneficial to all of HRM.....unless you have....inside connectoins?......;)

[phrenic]

Who said anything about socialists? Socialists don't exist in this country. The closet thing we have is Social Democrats, and in reality that label applies more to the federal NDP than its provincial counterparts.

This isn't some pie-in-the-sky convention centre idea. I think that considering how this project is already progressing, it would be rather irrational to assume that our incoming government would act against something that, as you say, is logical, sensible and beneficial to all of HRM. I wouldn't put it past Epstein to say something stupid, but Dexter will want to have the DHBC on his side.

But we'll wait and see I suppose. As its all we really can do.

[Takeo]

do you honestly think that socialists...

:rolleyes:

[Dmajackson]

I took a count last night and of the 18 or so MLA areas in HRM only four are not NDP (all Liberal) so I imagine the 14 NDP's representing Halifax will be in support of the convention centre.

[Empire]

Dont count on that...I can just hear it now. the money would be better to go into keeping ER's open they will be saying.

Exactly.....how does one pay for so many unrealistic promises? $15,000 tax credit for grads to stay in NS, no more wait times, slash the HST on power etc...etc...and all with no tax hikes while balancing the budget.

May be a tall order while trying to keep companies from packing up to escape the dreaded CORPORATE tax grab.

[Barrington south]

:rolleyes:

sorry.....socialists "LITE".....:P

[sdm]

I took a count last night and of the 18 or so MLA areas in HRM only four are not NDP (all Liberal) so I imagine the 14 NDP's representing Halifax will be in support of the convention centre.

I would suspect the opposite

[Dmajackson]

I don't normally post column because of their biasm but this seemed to have the right idea and its a good way to clear the dust off this thread. :)

Time to get moving on old Herald property

By ROGER TAYLOR Business Columnist
Wed. Jul 15 - 4:46 AM

THE PAUL McCARTNEY concert Saturday provided Halifax with a much-needed injection of energy.

It was felt particularly in the downtown, where the economy there seems to be limping along without much direction.

But there are signs that things may turn around for the downtown business community. For example, on the heels of the McCartney success, there’s the arrival of the tall ships later this week and the Kiss concert on the Halifax Commons on Saturday. Both are expected to draw thousands.

The weather is improving, too.

Tuesday was such a beautiful summer day, I heard people wishing they could go sit out on a patio somewhere downtown. Nice weather is good news for many bar owners who need similar days to insure their patios are full for the rest of the summer.

All this is a short-term fix, however. Longer term, it seems to me that everything is on hold as we wait for work to begin on the proposed convention centre on the former Chronicle Herald property on Argyle Street.

The plan includes a new hotel and office tower, along with retail and residential components. It should take the better part of a couple of years to complete. But even during construction, the activity at such a prominent location downtown is expected to buoy the spirits of the business community.

Most business owners support the construction of the project, estimated at $300 million, and are anxious for work to get going, even though there was some concern that work would start during the profitable summer months, thus putting a damper on people wanting to sit outside and eat a meal.

Those fears of a disrupted summer patio season seem to be fading a bit because the project’s pace seems to have slowed.

But that could change quickly. The developer has already received approval from city hall to proceed and the province is working on its end of the deal. Once the final arrangements are worked out with the province, the hope is that Ottawa will help with financing.

The Harper government shouldn’t have any problems getting involved in a private-public partnership with developer Rank Inc. and its partners as a means of leveraging its investment and providing stimulus for the local economy.

When work does begin, one of the first things that will be done is the demolition of the old Herald building.

Despite speculation that crews may decide to use explosives to tear down the structure, I’ve been told the cost of using explosives to implode the five-storey structure would be too expensive.

The developer has been told that updated demolition techniques should be able to tear down the building in a cost-effective way, even though the building has reinforced floors. The thick concrete floors were necessary to support the heavy typesetting equipment used during the last century.

Some people may mourn the demise of the old Herald building, but it’s an empty shell taking up space in an important part of the city. The sooner work can start on the next phase of the downtown, the better off the city will be.

Considering its importance to the future of the downtown business community, it seems like a good idea to get things moving on the convention centre as quickly as possible.

( rtaylor@herald.ca)

[Phalanx]

Roger Taylor, on the whole, is pro-development... just for the record.

[Barrington south]

Some people may mourn the demise of the old Herald building,

( rtaylor@herald.ca)[/I]

That would be like mourning the death of Crackhead Bob......:P

[Jonovision]

When I was in Toronto a few weeks ago I noticed a lot of similarites between this project and the Eaton Centre......two glass towers with a pedestrian mall in between. All the white cladding and the blue glass.

[someone123]

Yeah, this design immediately reminded me of the Eaton Centre, which is a little worrisome since the newer tower went up in 1992 or so.

I am hoping there will be some (major) cosmetic improvements to this proposal before it is actually built, though I'd like it to move forward as quickly as possible.

It seems wildly optimistic to expect them to break ground this summer or whatever when they still want federal funding. When are government projects ever that fast? In Halifax terms a "fast" project takes only a couple of years of tenders and planning and then a couple more for random delays.

[terrynorthend]

Yeah, this design immediately reminded me of the Eaton Centre, which is a little worrisome since the newer tower went up in 1992 or so.

I am hoping there will be some (major) cosmetic improvements to this proposal before it is actually built, though I'd like it to move forward as quickly as possible.

It seems wildly optimistic to expect them to break ground this summer or whatever when they still want federal funding. When are government projects ever that fast? In Halifax terms a "fast" project takes only a couple of years of tenders and planning and then a couple more for random delays.

This is so true.. Look at the Queen's Wharf/Maritime Museum redevelopment. How many years since they first hit the news, looking for government funding. And now we supposedly have all kinds of "infrastructure" dollars floating around. Glacial...

[Barrington south]

hopefully the retail\commercial component in this will be a shot in the arm for Market St......
which sees about as much action as Ketch Harbor on a Saturday night

[eastcoastal]

In Halifax terms a "fast" project takes only a couple of years of tenders and planning and then a couple more for random delays.

Sometimes I feel like there isn't enough planning... I mean, these projects are all significant investments, so it makes sense to study and plan. On the other hand, things like the Bloomfield Master Plan are still languishing in purgatory - the plan was approved by that particular Committee many many months ago, and is now over a year (!!) late going to Council.

Maybe we just do too much shitty planning and not enough good planning?

[miesh111]

Maybe we just do too much shitty planning and not enough good planning?

Maybe when there's actual money behind a project instead of the city hoping for it to come out of nowhere, then things happen faster. When there's someone pulling the train, it gets to the destination faster. It has nothing to do with the quality of planning.

[someone123]

I think it all comes down to funding and political will.

The HRM has very little political leadership and most councillors simply look out for their own district so projects like the central library languish for years.

In the case of the HRM it also feels like most councillors want money for projects to magically fall out of the sky - everything is fine in principle but then nobody actually wants to pay for it.

When it comes to the private sector I think the horrible level of red tape hurts a lot. A number of projects were proposed just as the market was heating up but were only given the green light when things were starting to slow and the credit market was freezing up. That is terrible, and I've never even seen anyone admit to it being the case. The developers seem very hesitant to give statements about it when they talk to the media.

Of course, I am not saying that everything would have been built had the approvals gone better, but the economic performance of the downtown area is terrible relative to that of the region as a whole. Lately Halifax has actually been one of the top Canadian cities for population and job growth, and all of that's been headed to the suburbs because it's easier to build there.

[Jonovision]

The midtown closed yesterday for its move up the street. I doubt that something like the midtown would move if they weren't going to go through with the project.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

The midtown closed yesterday for its move up the street. I doubt that something like the midtown would move if they weren't going to go through with the project.

I wouldn't be too sure. There have been some closures downtown to make way for projects that don't happen or get stalled. Dooley's on Barrington is a good example, they closed to make way for the Roy Building project which appears to be moving pretty slowly. If I was a sucessful business like the Midtown with a loyal clientel I'd rather get out of the lease and make the move instead of sticking in limbo.

[Empire]

The midtown closed yesterday for its move up the street. I doubt that something like the midtown would move if they weren't going to go through with the project.

The Midtown property was sold to a private interest. Whether the new owners are able to secure the financing and political backing to build a Trade Centre is the big question. The most significant issue at the moment is that the "Dexter dozen" have been 100% silent about the project. This is because they are anti business, anti establishment, pro union, etc. To support such a slap in the face to the ideology of the NDP movement will take some time. I hope none of you voted NDP.

[Phalanx]

...The most significant issue at the moment is that the "Dexter dozen" have been 100% silent about the project. This is because they are anti business, anti establishment, pro union, etc. To support such a slap in the face to the ideology of the NDP movement will take some time. I hope none of you voted NDP.

...Wow. Just wow. Have any sources to back that up?

And I happily voted NDP. I'd do it again until I have reason not to.

[Jonovision]

Yah really! Was it not he NDP who ran BC during Vancouvers big boom times?! I wouldn't mind a bit of that here if you ask me.

[Architype]

I noticed this project is generating lots of interest. It looks like a nice fairly impressive project for Halifax, though the design may be a bit 80's or whatever. I am actually a bit suprised that they will allow buildings that tall just below the Citadel, given all the concern about that. Within the context of Atlantic Canada, I don't think Nimbyism is doing all that well there. :)

[Empire]

...Wow. Just wow. Have any sources to back that up?

And I happily voted NDP. I'd do it again until I have reason not to.

What happend to the funding for the fourplex in Bedford?

[Haliguy]

Yah really! Was it not he NDP who ran BC during Vancouvers big boom times?! I wouldn't mind a bit of that here if you ask me.

Nothing to do with the NDP. There was an influx of money coming in from Hong Kong in eartly 90'S before China took it over. By the late 90's BC was in bad shape until the new Liberal government took over.

[sdm]

What happend to the funding for the fourplex in Bedford?

Great point, and look at all the other government funded projects and where they stand today.....

Also i am sure design height will become an issue with an NDP government.

[Empire]

Great point, and look at all the other government funded projects and where they stand today.....

Also i am sure design height will become an issue with an NDP government.

If the NDP Gov. supports the Trade Centre and the businesses that it represents they have a very odd way of expressing that....."total silence-summer recess or no summer recess"

[beyeas]

What happend to the funding for the fourplex in Bedford?

It is in fact the Conservative federal government that pulled the funding plug, whereas the provincial government just last week stated that they plan to still provide their $15M portion of the funding (... true this was first put forward by the previous government, but the NDP have stated they will continue to honour it).

So the funding debacle in this case was caused by Conservatives, not socialists. Now you can say that it is the NDP's fault because the conservatives simply don't want to give funding to a NDP province (or probably more specifically not wanting to give funding to a riding that voted out the lone Halifax PC MLA), but all that means is that it is the Conservatives who are (potentially) playing politics with funding of building projects.

CH Op-ed piece on Ottawa's decision to pull funding:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1134483.html

I am basically an apolitical person because I can't stand how politics works in this country, but having said that I really find it very unhelpful to paint different parties with black or white. There is not one single party in NS or Canada that is without its faults/issues/parties. To blindly say that Conservatives are pro-development and NDPers are anti-development doesn't help, nor is it true as a blanket statement. I prefer to take the tack of working with those supporters of each party and educate them on the best solutions (rather than the political answers) to issues facing the region.

[Empire]

It is in fact the Conservative federal government that pulled the funding plug, whereas the provincial government just last week stated that they plan to still provide their $15M portion of the funding (... true this was first put forward by the previous government, but the NDP have stated they will continue to honour it).

So the funding debacle in this case was caused by Conservatives, not socialists. Now you can say that it is the NDP's fault because the conservatives simply don't want to give funding to a NDP province (or probably more specifically not wanting to give funding to a riding that voted out the lone Halifax PC MLA), but all that means is that it is the Conservatives who are (potentially) playing politics with funding of building projects.

CH Op-ed piece on Ottawa's decision to pull funding:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1134483.html

I am basically an apolitical person because I can't stand how politics works in this country, but having said that I really find it very unhelpful to paint different parties with black or white. There is not one single party in NS or Canada that is without its faults/issues/parties. To blindly say that Conservatives are pro-development and NDPers are anti-development doesn't help, nor is it true as a blanket statement. I prefer to take the tack of working with those supporters of each party and educate them on the best solutions (rather than the political answers) to issues facing the region.

Yes you have valid points. Will the provincial NDP gov. be able to get their fair share of the 12 billion federal conservative stimulus money? I belive it was Peter Kelly and his band of merry men who said they will move forward anyway. If HRM and the province fund the project, $15,000,000 will be taken out of other projects and the trade centre could be one of them.

[beyeas]

Yes you have valid points. Will the provincial NDP gov. be able to get their fair share of the 12 billion federal conservative stimulus money? I belive it was Peter Kelly and his band of merry men who said they will move forward anyway. If HRM and the province fund the project, $15,000,000 will be taken out of other projects and the trade centre could be one of them.

I do agree with your last point. It is my worry as well that other government funded projects will be delayed or cancelled because of this. The money for the rink has to come from somewhere, and one way they may do it is to pull funds from a project such as the Nova Centre. Again though, if that is how the dominos fall in all this, it will be on the Conservative federal government for having possibly played politics on the Bedford project.

[Barrington south]

i' not gonna touch this one!!!

[beyeas]

i' not gonna touch this one!!!

LOL. Meh... I am not lobbying for or against any of the political parties. In fact my biggest beef is that at the end of the day they are all same, because fundamentally there is not one party out there that I truly believe would choose the "right decision" over the "decision that will get us re-elected". That seems to just be an unfortunate fundamental truth of politics regardless whether you are a Conservative, a Liberal, NDP or Rhinoceros party!

[sdm]

I do agree with your last point. It is my worry as well that other government funded projects will be delayed or cancelled because of this. The money for the rink has to come from somewhere, and one way they may do it is to pull funds from a project such as the Nova Centre. Again though, if that is how the dominos fall in all this, it will be on the Conservative federal government for having possibly played politics on the Bedford project.

The federal government didn't play politics on the Bedford rinks, the city did and appears to have lost.

Kelly needed to keep his mouth shut and say nothing about if the project would proceed with or without funding. That is the basis for the federal programs, ie projects that wouldn't be ever able to start without the influx of money. Kelly screwed up, he is the one to blame.

I for one think there will be issues for funding on the Nova Centre because of the time to complete and the fact that it is a private/public collaboration. If it was purely public the funds i bet would be easier to obtain.

[beyeas]

The federal government didn't play politics on the Bedford rinks, the city did and appears to have lost.

Kelly needed to keep his mouth shut and say nothing about if the project would proceed with or without funding. That is the basis for the federal programs, ie projects that wouldn't be ever able to start without the influx of money. Kelly screwed up, he is the one to blame.

I for one think there will be issues for funding on the Nova Centre because of the time to complete and the fact that it is a private/public collaboration. If it was purely public the funds i bet would be easier to obtain.

Believe me, I am NO fan of Kelly's and am happy to spread the criticism around! :-) I am quite the sure he and the entire council share some of the blame here, and I agree that they made a strategic mistake in overplaying the fact that they could do it by just borrowing more. But I don't believe that absolves the government of blame either... there are plenty of examples of projects that are in very very similar situations that were funded. In fact, the availability of funds was not sited at all in the federal government's response as to why they would not be giving money for this.

[worldlyhaligonian]

As much as I didn't like Rodney (aka Harper's bitch), it is still legitimate to be worried about this (or any) new government.


What really scares most of us on this forum has little to do with political perspectives and more to do with the perceived values of the newly elected officials.

Here is simply what many have tried to convey through the previous conversation:

If somebody is intrinsically anti-height or anti-development, how can they honestly represent those who elected them if their viewpoints differ? I'm sure there are many NDPers that want to see Halifax develop in a smart/logical way, but do many of their elected representatives feel the same way? (In their own heart and minds).

[Phalanx]

Just for the record, the most vocal anti-development NDP party member was shut out of cabinet...

I'm just tired of the common "The NDP are anti-(insert development related issue here)" diatribe. You can't paint everyone in the party with the same brush... these views are not monolithic. I support the provincial NDP (federal - not so much) and I'm very pro-development, and I'm pretty sure you'll probably find your fair share of Conservative and Liberal party members siding with, and among the Heritage Trust.

If you want to know how the elected officials feel, why not try asking them? If you feel strongly about a project, tell them.

So before people start accusing the NDP of obstructing projects, some sort of proof would be nice. Until such time, lets keep it apolitical.


Anyway, enough of that... lets just see what happens here.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Just for the record, the most vocal anti-development NDP party member was shut out of cabinet...

I'm just tired of the common "The NDP are anti-(insert development related issue here)" diatribe. You can't paint everyone in the party with the same brush... these views are not monolithic. I support the provincial NDP (federal - not so much) and I'm very pro-development, and I'm pretty sure you'll probably find your fair share of Conservative and Liberal party members siding with, and among the Heritage Trust.

If you want to know how the elected officials feel, why not try asking them? If you feel strongly about a project, tell them.

So before people start accusing the NDP of obstructing projects, some sort of proof would be nice. Until such time, lets keep it apolitical.


Anyway, enough of that... lets just see what happens here.

I was just trying to explain what others "think"... and I totally agree that you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

[Phalanx]

I was just trying to explain what others "think"... and I totally agree that you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

No worries. The post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I was just vocalizing my thoughts on the recurring NDP = Anti-development theme.

[Aya_Akai]

No worries. The post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I was just vocalizing my thoughts on the recurring NDP = Anti-development theme.

NDP stands for the "No Development Party" :haha:

[Phalanx]

...Sigh...

[beyeas]

Just for the record, the most vocal anti-development NDP party member was shut out of cabinet...

I'm just tired of the common "The NDP are anti-(insert development related issue here)" diatribe. You can't paint everyone in the party with the same brush... these views are not monolithic. I support the provincial NDP (federal - not so much) and I'm very pro-development, and I'm pretty sure you'll probably find your fair share of Conservative and Liberal party members siding with, and among the Heritage Trust.

If you want to know how the elected officials feel, why not try asking them? If you feel strongly about a project, tell them.

So before people start accusing the NDP of obstructing projects, some sort of proof would be nice. Until such time, lets keep it apolitical.


Anyway, enough of that... lets just see what happens here.

Totally agree. My thoughts exactly (you just put it a bit more clearly! LOL).

[phrenic]

Totally agree. My thoughts exactly (you just put it a bit more clearly! LOL).

+1

[terrynorthend]

Just for the record, the most vocal anti-development NDP party member was shut out of cabinet...

I'm just tired of the common "The NDP are anti-(insert development related issue here)" diatribe. You can't paint everyone in the party with the same brush... these views are not monolithic. I support the provincial NDP (federal - not so much) and I'm very pro-development, and I'm pretty sure you'll probably find your fair share of Conservative and Liberal party members siding with, and among the Heritage Trust.

If you want to know how the elected officials feel, why not try asking them? If you feel strongly about a project, tell them.

So before people start accusing the NDP of obstructing projects, some sort of proof would be nice. Until such time, lets keep it apolitical.


Anyway, enough of that... lets just see what happens here.

Agreed. There are many forces pushing and pulling at any party in government, no matter what their politics. One may call the NDP anti-business/pro-union, and that may or may not be true. If it is true, i'm certain there would as much pressure from unions pushing for large developments and the hundreds of trades that would be employed. Look at Saint John. Irving just put aside plans for an 8B$ refinery. The media reaction focused almost entirely on the disappointment of trade unions.

[Empire]

Agreed. There are many forces pushing and pulling at any party in government, no matter what their politics. One may call the NDP anti-business/pro-union, and that may or may not be true. If it is true, i'm certain there would as much pressure from unions pushing for large developments and the hundreds of trades that would be employed. Look at Saint John. Irving just put aside plans for an 8B$ refinery. The media reaction focused almost entirely on the disappointment of trade unions.

The NDP has historically promoted taxing big business and promoting unions. Big business doesn't like that and will avoid that political hotbed if they can. Michelin has hinted more than once that they wouldn't be able to operated in NS if they were unionized. Gloss over all you want that all parties are the same etc. but the bottom line is we have a majority government who has been know to make big buisness nervous and we are on the wrong side of the fence to tap into federal cash from a POLITICAL perspective and let's face it, that is what we are talking about. So far there have been no good news stories come out of the NDP power seize. Just on the brink of many bad news stories, we'll see when the budget is tabled in the fall.

[Phalanx]

The NDP has historically promoted taxing big business and promoting unions. Big business doesn't like that and will avoid that political hotbed if they can. Michelin has hinted more than once that they wouldn't be able to operated in NS if they were unionized. Gloss over all you want that all parties are the same etc. but the bottom line is we have a majority government who has been know to make big buisness nervous and we are on the wrong side of the fence to tap into federal cash from a POLITICAL perspective and let's face it, that is what we are talking about. So far there have been no good news stories come out of the NDP power seize. Just on the brink of many bad news stories, we'll see when the budget is tabled in the fall.

Give the government a chance to establish a record before you start attacking it. Dexter is on record as saying that he has no intention of rocking the boat when it comes to businesses in the province, and understands that healthy businesses are good for everybody. Where is all this bad news that we're on the brink of? Surely you have some articles to share? Or are you just reading tea leaves?

As for being on the wrong side politically for getting federal cash... take it out on the federal government for playing petty politics, then, not the local government. And before you point out that this is nothing new... I know. I didn't like it when the Liberals did it, and I feel no differently about the Conservatives. What does it say about the democratic system when we feel obligated to vote a certain way just to kowtow to the federal party to get a handout?

Anyway, can we please get back to discussing what's actually happening with the convention centre? There's a sub-forum for business and politics, so if we're going to continue with this, why don't we take it there?

[Empire]

Give the government a chance to establish a record before you start attacking it. Dexter is on record as saying that he has no intention of rocking the boat when it comes to businesses in the province, and understands that healthy businesses are good for everybody. Where is all this bad news that we're on the brink of? Surely you have some articles to share? Or are you just reading tea leaves?

Dexter is rocking the boat just by being there. The tea leaves say federal money for the library, the Atlantic Gateway, federal transfer payments and all NS provincial infrastructure projects just became a tad harder to get.

[Phalanx]

Dexter is rocking the boat just by being there. The tea leaves say federal money for the library, the Atlantic Gateway, federal transfers payments and all NS provincial infrastructure projects just became a tad harder to get.

:rolleyes:
Fine, fine... lets just do away with provincial governments altogether, then. Apparently they only work when the governing party is the same as the federal government anyway, right? Premiers will be appointed rather than elected... Work for you? Silly NDP party... thinking they could take part in the democratic process like that.

Like I said, take it up with the federal government if you have problems with how federal funding is going to be distributed. Don't blame the provincial government.

Anyway... next reply in the Business and Politics forum, no? Should there be one, anyway.

[Barrington south]

says in the Atlantic Restaurant Industry news that the first stages of construction....or rather destruction.....of the existing buildings...could start this autum...it also states that the city and Provence are committed to having the center up and running by jan 2013

[Empire]

says in the Atlantic Restaurant Industry news that the first stages of construction....or rather destruction.....of the existing buildings...could start this autum...it also states that the city and Provence are committed to having the center up and running by jan 2013

Perfect....a new gravel parking lot with a rope fence.

[Wishblade]

Perfect....a new gravel parking lot with a rope fence.

Not really, if they stick to that timeline. up and running by Jan 2013? its already Aug 2009.

[sdm]

says in the Atlantic Restaurant Industry news that the first stages of construction....or rather destruction.....of the existing buildings...could start this autum...it also states that the city and Provence are committed to having the center up and running by jan 2013

all that is committed is a memo of understanding, hardly anything i would run around holding faith on.

Besides, with out federal funding and the province in the shape the NDP claim i doubt they will meet that timeline. Shame, but until i see a crane i won't get too excited about it as there are a number of smaller projects that haven't even started.

The buildings will however come down for sure, and soon.

[Jonovision]

News on new trade centre coming soon, premier says

By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter
Fri. Sep 4 - 4:46 AM

News about a new World Trade and Convention Centre in downtown Halifax is coming soon, Premier Darrell Dexter said Thursday.

Mr. Dexter said the project is one of many announced by the previous Tory government that has been under review.

"The trade and convention centre question is one that I’ve had a close look at," Mr. Dexter said after Thursday’s cabinet meeting.

"It is a matter that we’re still considering closely, and shortly we’ll have more news on it."

Former premier Rodney MacDonald announced the proposed Nova Centre on the morning of May 4. His minority government went down to defeat at suppertime that day.

The project has a price tag of about $300 million, though the province’s share hasn’t been determined.

Developer Rank Inc., led by Joseph Ramia, was chosen for the project. Mr. Ramia couldn’t be reached for comment.

Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) said she had faith the new NDP government would press on with plans for the new facility. "Darrell has a good head on his shoulders and the government realizes the World Trade and Convention Centre is a very important infrastructure piece to the city," Ms. Sloane said.

"Everybody would love for it to be built tomorrow, but it doesn’t work that way. It’s not Lego."

At the announcement, officials said the projected completion date was 2013.

Mr. Dexter, sworn in as premier in June, said he would be reviewing the previous Tory government’s infrastructure commitments to see which were solid and had to be continued. The NDP has since received a consultant’s report showing the province could be in dire financial straits if changes aren’t made.

The NDP has not said what criteria it is using to determine if a project will go ahead.

Cumberland South MLA Murray Scott, a Tory, announced in late April when he was the economic development minister that a replacement for the Amherst jail would be built in Springhill, but Justice Minister Ross Landry has said that’s under review.

Mr. Dexter also wouldn’t say what’s happening with a $22-million wellness centre for Pictou County, announced in late March.

With Jeffrey Simpson,

provincial reporter

( djackson@herald.ca)

[someone123]

It is good that these things are being reviewed in a timely fashion. Hopefully the news will be concrete and come fairly soon. This is a really key site in the downtown.

The political speculation seems fairly pointless without real details. The "NDP are leftist, which means bad economy" argument is overly-simplified and the relationship of the province to the federal government is complicated as well. One could just as easily point out that this new provincial government is mostly supported by more urban parts of the province, so maybe we'll see a better balance between spending in the city vs. rural areas.

[Barrington south]

[QUOTE=sdm;4416539]
Shame, but until i see a crane i won't get too excited about it as there are a number of smaller projects that haven't even started.

QUOTE]

I am definitely a convert to this train of thought....for about the last 4 years anyway

[worldlyhaligonian]

Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) said she had faith the new NDP government would press on with plans for the new facility. "Darrell has a good head on his shoulders and the government realizes the World Trade and Convention Centre is a very important infrastructure piece to the city," Ms. Sloane said.

"Everybody would love for it to be built tomorrow, but it doesn’t work that way. It’s not Lego."



Seriously? This is possibly the funniest development related quote of the year. Am I reading this properly?

[worldlyhaligonian]

I had to post again, and just say wow. Really? I thought Lego was the most popular building material out there (next to vinyl siding that is).

How long would it take to construct the entire Nova Centre completely out of Lego? I'd say longer than traditional construction methods. This fact alone invalidates any merit in the Lego statement.

[Keith P.]

This fact alone invalidates any merit in the Lego statement.

No, the source (Dawn Sloane) invalidates any merit in any comment she makes.

[terrynorthend]

CTV and several City Councilors reporting that an announcement should be made on this after Thursday's Provincial Cabinet meeting. Sounds like its a green light.

Kelly wanted to add a 2000-3000 seat Performing Arts Centre connected to this project (not entirely sure where:shrug:) but agreed to back off if it means getting the Convention Centre built.

[sdm]

CTV and several City Councilors reporting that an announcement should be made on this after Thursday's Provincial Cabinet meeting. Sounds like its a green light.

Kelly wanted to add a 2000-3000 seat Performing Arts Centre connected to this project (not entirely sure where:shrug:) but agreed to back off if it means getting the Convention Centre built.

smells like staging to me, in that the city wants it but province will back out.

[Wishblade]

smells like staging to me, in that the city wants it but province will back out.

I disagree. I believe Dexter has even said that he supports this and his government will carry out its part.

[sdm]

I disagree. I believe Dexter has even said that he supports this and his government will carry out its part.

yeah i guess we will see which way it goes. For me i won't get too worked up till i see a crane.

[sdm]

News in allnovascotia today with Dexter saying that basically council was out of line to state what they did and that an answer could be upto a year. Starts talking about if the project is affordable, if its the right one etc.

Sounds to me Council goof'd again......

[Wishblade]

News in allnovascotia today with Dexter saying that basically council was out of line to state what they did and that an answer could be upto a year. Starts talking about if the project is affordable, if its the right one etc.

Sounds to me Council goof'd again......

In that case, 2013 completion date my ass.

[worldlyhaligonian]

This is just rediculous... Halifax needs this more than anything... we are supposed to be a trade hub. I don't trust Dexter at all now, if he had any sense it would be to push this thing through.

[Barrington south]

[politics]
Just for the record, the most vocal anti-development NDP party member was shut out of cabinet...

I'm just tired of the common "The NDP are anti-(insert development related issue here)" diatribe. these views are not monolithic.



So before people start accusing the NDP of obstructing projects,

:yes:

some sort of proof would be nice.

:P



lets just see what happens here.


:whip:

[Barrington south]

smells like staging to me, in that the city wants it but province will back out.

this is why I have more respect form SDM than anyother...and I do not mean that as a slight to anyone

[Phalanx]

:whip:

:rolleyes:
...Your point? Where's the obstruction? Where's the proof that there's an anti-development attitude? They're assessing the project. C'mon, give me something here... Or maybe you can't?

[worldlyhaligonian]

Can you post the allnovascotia article?

[Dmajackson]

^Lol nice signature "worldlyhaligonian" :lmao:

[Barrington south]

^Lol nice signature "worldlyhaligonian" :lmao:

nice one!!!...

sometimes I wonder who the sharper knife is

Sloane vs. Eva Hoare

[sdm]

Can you post the allnovascotia article?

i can in a few days, as it becomes free for view after 3 days.

[Barrington south]

:rolleyes:
...Your point? Where's the obstruction? Where's the proof that there's an anti-development attitude? They're assessing the project. C'mon, give me something here... Or maybe you can't?

your clutching for straw's brah........I hope your man Dex proves me wrong.....it'll be good for the city.....If he does, I'm man enough....I'll eat my words

[Phalanx]

your clutching for straw's brah........I hope your man Dex proves me wrong.....it'll be good for the city.....If he does, I'm man enough....I'll eat my words

I'm grasping at straws, huh? Riiiiiight. I'm still waiting for you to back up your post. :D

Anyway, my point is that it's premature to be drawing conclusions one way or the other. Besides, given the state of the province's finances, there may well be a good reason to reevaluate, or at least seek additional funding elsewhere before proceeding.

[worldlyhaligonian]

This development will be influential in spurring future business in Halifax. I've worked in international trade, and it is known that Halifax has far more potential.

This investment is something will generate a greater social return in the long run. Please get this development underway... I still can't believe the midtown tower proposal got shot down and don't need 2 proposals in a row to not happen.

We garner a significant amount of trade shows and conferences for our size and this development would make us stronger and help local business and Canadian business in general. Come on... lets get this city going!! (we can afford it)

[sdm]

This development will be influential in spurring future business in Halifax. I've worked in international trade, and it is known that Halifax has far more potential.

This investment is something will generate a greater social return in the long run. Please get this development underway... I still can't believe the midtown tower proposal got shot down and don't need 2 proposals in a row to not happen.

We garner a significant amount of trade shows and conferences for our size and this development would make us stronger and help local business and Canadian business in general. Come on... lets get this city going!! (we can afford it)

Yes i agree we need a new facility, but i am greedy and i want a new trade centre and a new stadium as well. So to me the best economic package is to expand the existing trade centre into the metro centre and then build a new stadium.

[beyeas]

Personally... I have very little trust in any government or politicians ability to affect change in this area, given the track record over the last while.

People in this forum often seem scared about Dexter in terms of business/development, I do understand where their fear comes from. Having said that, where is the concrete (pun intended) evidence of the PC's commitment to development? Aside from a lot of talk about a CBD etc, where is this shiny tower edifice to past conservative governments? I cannot think of a single major development in downtown halifax during the last period of Tory rule (i.e. since the Hamm government took over) that we can attribute to their influence?!?!?! All they did was talk about it, but actually accomplished nothing.

The frustrating part for me is that when I have pointed that out to people, they then say that is not the provincial Tory's fault because the NS government can't directly influence development applications to the city. If that is true (which it is), then how can the flipside be true, which is this mythical wonderful position influence that the NS Tory's have supposedly had on development!!!

Personally, I think that every politician of every political stripe talks big and says what they think their base wants to hear, but at the end of the day NONE of them (conservative or not) have had any real impact on development in downtown Halifax.

[Wishblade]

Personally, I think that every politician of every political stripe talks big and says what they think their base wants to hear, but at the end of the day NONE of them (conservative or not) have had any real impact on development in downtown Halifax.

Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that most developments don't require the approval of the provincial government. Because this is going to include a convention centre, and the city and province are footing the bill, its one of the few where this is nessesary. For most developments, the funding doesnt come from the city or province. This development isn't like any regular office tower.

[Barrington south]

Yes i agree we need a new facility, but i am greedy and i want a new trade center and a new stadium as well. So to me the best economic package is to expand the existing trade center into the metro center and then build a new stadium.

In my mind, the best scenario would be, proceed with the nova center.....along with it's many good features...i.e.....pedestrain mall..(no superblock).... towers for office space and hotel..(former much needed)....lots of retail...(just imagine the action on argyle, with new res\bars\café across from the shoe shop)....and the facility's will be relatively state of the art...just make the apperance of it Aesthetically up to date

Then tear down that hulking dinousor...ie....metro center....and built a state of the art stadium....then you have a brand new conversion center, instead of a retrofitted eye-sore. And the shiny new stadium will be nice and Central, right in town on the former metro center's site....adding that big city bustle to the core before and after events....filling the bars and resturants....if it gets built in some place like Shannon park it would be a dying shame...we must look to the experience of the many stadium in north America that where built away from the core, and faltered.....

my last point, we need this injection of life into the core asap

not just for the added benefit of the flash new retail, or the much needed class A space....the new people attending conventions will be like a shot in the arm to the core....it's like downtown has been put into suspended animation....no major development since purdy's warf.....WTF?...that's encompassing two major boom periods...now is the time for action

[beyeas]

Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that most developments don't require the approval of the provincial government. Because this is going to include a convention centre, and the city and province are footing the bill, its one of the few where this is nessesary. For most developments, the funding doesnt come from the city or province. This development isn't like any regular office tower.

True. I was merely pointing out that regardless, no other government did anything other than talk big when it came to new developments that they would be involved in (new convention centre, new provincial office building on birk's site etc). I am not excusing the NDP if they do turn this down, because I agree that this project DESPERATELY needs to be built. If they turn it down I will be the 1st to say they were wrong. I am just making the point that all the Tories did was talk, and in terms of the Nova Centre it was really nothing more than a potential sorta promise rushed out in a mid-guided attempt at winning Halifax votes just before an election call.

As I have said before, I am not NDP or PC or anything else... I think all politicians are equally useless! *GRIN* I just take umbridge when people seem to assume that a PC government was so much better for development, when the fact is I don't see a single new development that was built (of any kind, convention centre of not) during the past PC government's tenure that they could take credit for.

[Barrington south]

you may not support either, and there is no doubt in my mind that you are not a fire brand partisan....but it's also obvious that your you have far more criticism for the Tories...and you often speak of the NDP in a defensive tone


just say-in'

[beyeas]

you may not support either, and there is no doubt in my mind that you are not a fire brand partisan....but it's also obvious that your you have far more criticism for the Tories...and you often speak of the NDP in a defensive tone


just say-in'

LOL Fair enough. If it comes out that way it probably is more to do with my lack of respect for how MacDonald and how he governed than anything else (I actually thought Hamm, on the whole, was a pretty solid premier). I can assure I have equal criticisms of all the parties, but in the "here and now" I certainly was not unhappy to see MacDonald himself go down. At this point Dexter hasn't done enough for me to judge, but if you like I have lots of bad things to say about Layton, Dion etc etc! :yuck:

[Barrington south]

well said...I agree, About Hamm...to me MacDonald to me will always remain what his previous profession was....a high school gym teacher.....it is a little premature to be judging Dexy....but IMO ...this honey moon stage is not long for this world..then we shall see what this man is really about.....still many unanswered questions

[sdm]

NDP, Tories, liberals, regardless its a government partnership tied to a development. Things are going to move a snails pace. Look at Queenslanding, proposed in 2005 yet nothing happening yet. Therefore the reason why i won't get too worked up till i see a crane.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Putting politics aside, I just want to see the thing get built. The impact of this development will be more significant than most people think.

If we are going to be competitive with cities of a similar size (Saskatoon, Victoria, etc) we need this. We are the biggest port on the east coast of Canada and could be handling alot more international trade (whether physically through our ports or via business development).

This development will immediately create a significant amount of jobs (that I am qualified for) downtown and will have massive economic spinoffs for local businesses (restaurants, etc).

The real question should be why not!

Right now is a great time for them to build, alot of material prices are down, etc. As much as I didn't like Rodney, I did like his gung ho attitude to the way Halifax should be. Why are we waiting a year? So this project can die like the others?

Its already designed... why are we going to waste more money changing the plan?

Isn't Bloomfield supposed to have this arts/cultural element as well? What about the library?

I feel as though too many of these projects cannibalize eachother and we don't end up with any landmark developments or developments that meet their requirements. This proposal seems to to meet the convention and trade office requirements and I just want it to fulfill its utility.

Ugh, thats my rant. We can't be cautious and need to get something built downtown that will help facilitate the future growth of the city and local economy.

[someone123]

I think this style of convention centre would be the best for the city. I also think it would be good to tear down the Metro Centre and find a new location for an arena that is not in the middle of the old downtown of small-scale blocks. The current Metro Centre is very out of place.

Like I said before, it's easy to speculate about whether this or that government would be better for this development, but as others have said the common thread is that every level of government in NS operates at a snail's pace. There is little real leadership so there are all kinds of elaborate plans intended to satisfy everybody, but there is not enough money for all of them so none end up moving forward.

[Barrington south]

I also think it would be good to tear down the Metro Centre and find a new location for an arena that is not in the middle of the old downtown of small-scale blocks. The current Metro Centre is very out of place.

your right....idealy, the the metro center lands could be transformed into traditional, retail at grade, office\ residential mid to high rise and split into to two blocks....but imo the new metro would have to be on the fringe of the core.....like the skydome was when it was built...stadiums in the burbs are a non-starter...take the alouets, for ex.....after moving from expo stadium.....with pitiful ll attendance, they moved into that decrepit McGill stadium....and it was filled to the rafters....if a stadium is not within walking distance of the core.....it places a major handicap on it

Like I said before, it's easy to speculate about whether this or that government would be better for this development, but as others have said the common thread is that every level of government in NS operates at a snail's pace. There is little real leadership so there are all kinds of elaborate plans intended to satisfy everybody, but there is not enough money for all of them so none end up moving forward.
..

bold is by by Barrinton south

[sdm]

Group fights for view
Convention centre plans worry heritage coalition
By BILL POWER Staff Reporter
Sun. Sep 20 - 4:45 AM


One of the best views in Nova Scotia — the vista of the harbour and Georges Island from the main entrance to the Halifax Citadel — will be lost forever if highrise towers are included in the new World Trade and Convention Centre slated for Argyle Street, a heritage group charged Saturday.

"Try to imagine the number of people who have taken in that view during visits to our city. It is certainly a view worth preserving," said Beverly Miller, a spokeswoman for a group called The Coalition to Save the View from Citadel Hill.

"We’re trying to draw public attention to the fact that highrise construction above the proposed convention centre will take away something that is a special part of our city."

The coalition put out a press release Saturday with images it said showed how the view of the harbour from the main entrance to the historic Citadel will be affected if a 14-storey office building and an 18-storey hotel are included in the convention centre project.

One of the images shows a view of Georges Island almost blocked entirely when looking from the fortress main entrance toward the harbour.

The coalition, which Ms. Miller said is comprised of numerous organizations and individuals with heritage concerns, said it wants federal and provincial decision makers to consider the impact the project’s highrise components will have before approving financial support for the new convention centre.

"We are certainly not opposed to the convention centre, which would be perhaps three stories. Our issue is with the towers that would rise up and block this wonderful view from the Citadel," said Ms. Miller.

The press release from the coalition states "it would be unconscionable to use tax dollars to assist a private developer to block the view of Halifax Harbour from historic Citadel Hill."

Ms. Miller said the Halifax by Design strategy that became entrenched in law over the summer months allows the highrise towers to be built at the Argyle site that is occupied by the former Halifax Herald Limited building and the former home of the Midtown Tavern.

"Under the old planning strategy this view was protected and this construction could not have been approved," said Ms. Miller.

The coalition has established a web site at www.halifaxcommon.ca/citadelview to draw attention to the pending loss of the harbour view.

"It’s just not smart business to exchange cultural and historic assets that attract thousands of tourists for a commercial development providing a financial windfall to one developer," said coalition member Peter Delefes, president of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia.

"In this way the public would actually foot the bill to block the view," he said in the press release.

Speculation about the new World Trade and Convention Centre became feverish around much of the city after Premier Darrell Dexter said on Sept. 4 that news about the project can be expected soon.

Former premier Rodney MacDonald announced the new centre, which he dubbed Nova Centre, just hours before his minority government was defeated in May.

A price tax of about $300 million has been attached to the centre, which is supposed to be open for business in 2013.

Rank Inc. led by Joseph Ramia won a competition to develop the convention centre and its highrise hotel and office building. Mr. Ramia’s company owns the Argyle Street site. He was unavailable for comment.

( bpower@herald.ca)

[worldlyhaligonian]

Now they are a coalition?

This is bogus, a little late on the draw after all of these plans have been made.

I am now officially worried about the government we have in place.

[worldlyhaligonian]

fuck'em

[Keith P.]

Now they are a coalition?
I am now officially worried about the government we have in place.

Especially with NDPer Peter Delefes now in charge of the HT. Who knows what sweet nothings he is whispering in the ear of Brother Darrell Dexter?

[Dmajackson]

^I second that worldly :)

At least the city already knows that Beverly Miller is an extremist and doesn't pay any attention to her.

[worldlyhaligonian]

My biggest hope is that they are too far along in the project to stop now.

Halifax is needs a trade centre, we're a fricking port!!

[worldlyhaligonian]

BTW, this group has a website (www.savetheview.ca) and a facebook group... feel free to give them a hard time.

[Dmajackson]

Didn't someone disprove this would happen at the HbD hearing?

http://www.savetheview.ca/images/2views.jpg

[Jstaleness]

BTW, this group has a website (www.savetheview.ca) and a facebook group... feel free to give them a hard time.

I posted on their facebook group. Wow they have a whole 216 members. Hardly enough I hope to bring this project down.

[macgregor]

It looks to me like the picture they are using was taken from the road / parking lot. Does the convention center block the view from the ramparts?

[Takeo]

Didn't someone disprove this would happen at the HbD hearing?

Yup. But facts are irrelevant to religious zealots. Ideas always trump reality.

[fenwick16]

Didn't someone disprove this would happen at the HbD hearing?

http://www.savetheview.ca/images/2views.jpg

It is too bad that Halifax won't allow a better vantage point for the views of the harbour, bridges, etc. A tasteful observation tower such as in Portsmouth, UK ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnaker_Tower ). Then people could get a good view of the city and forget about the citadel hill views. Personally, I always liked the citadel hill views for the views of the city buildings.