PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS

[FlyersFan118]

I can't help but wonder if this building would have been more well-received by the residents at Symphony House and Perlman had the architects been better, more engaging speakers/presenters that could communicate the positives more effectively. We really didn't get someone that can speak well publicly until the young Asian man spoke at the end. To be honest, it's disturbing that an international architecture firm would give such a freshman-college-level type of presentation to a major city planning commission. For example, slides with entire sentences and paragraphs on them being read aloud by the presenters between "uhs" and "ums" is amateurish, and it breaks the most fundamental rules of public speaking. If you have ever taken a speech communication course, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Peter Kelson was the only other somewhat natural speaker.

By starting off the meeting with the hottest issue - the scale of the building - without any type of lead-in immediately turns people off that are not already in favor. I know exactly what Mr. Kohn was trying to do, but it didn't work in my opinion. Instead of identifying with his audience, he came off as presumptuous about their opinions. You make your most difficult appeals at the end once you've lured your audience in through a number of key devices. These people need to learn how to make persuasive arguments, because that's the only way they're going to have a fighting chance to win over the opposition. This meeting could have been colored in a completely different light had they found people to present this well. Instead, the entire thing was colored negatively by Fumo. If they had an engaging speaker, I can tell you right now that Fumo face wouldn't have been the only thing plastered all over the news, and coverage might have been more balanced. I can guarantee that the only things those Symphony house residents remember from that meeting are the image of the building on the skyline, and Fumo's tirade. The meeting failed what it intended to do from the architect and developer's point of view, which was to break misconceptions and hopefully win over support, and I'm discouraged by that.

I wasn't there and I didn't see any of the speakers obviously, but when you have people like that coming out to a planning meeting largely in protest, you could have Barney the Dinosaur talking and it won't change their opinions.

I would think there won't be much substantial opposition to this. It's at 18th and Arch, I mean come on, you can't really have much of a substantiative argument when you're building the tallest building in the city next to the current tallest building in the city.

[Don098]

You'd be very surprised by how effective a strong presentation can be. In my personal experience, I've had a lot of success in changing people's opinions through my own presentations and speeches, and the opposition was much more deeply rooted in legitimate arguments than what the Symphony House residents are holding onto. I don't think the opposition really has any argument at all, and they won't be able to stop it. However, getting back to a post I made earlier about trying to form some type of coalition: there needs to be a very strong response at the next meeting from the supporters, because the planning commission needs to see that the people that largely support the project are the exact people the city needs to attract in the future.

[Swinefeld]

getting back to a post I made earlier about trying to form some type of coalition: there needs to be a very strong response at the next meeting from the supporters, because the planning commission needs to see that the people that largely support the project are the exact people the city needs to attract in the future.
I agree with this 1000%. This is the biggest thing, literally and figuratively, being planned in the city right now. We have to let Clarke, Nutter, Fumo and any other politician who will listen know that there is a committed group dedicated to seeing this tower being built at this location and that we are not a city composed entirely of whiney NIMBYs who poo-poo everything that comes down the pike for increasingly arbitrary reasons.
:whip:

Sorry for the run-on sentence.

[TechTalkGuy]

The developer is doing allot of good for the city.

They will expand the concourse, offer retail, public park, public restrooms, etc.

What more do those demanding NIMBYs want http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/q.gif

[Don098]

What more do those demanding NIMBYs want http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/q.gif

...nothing to change. They represent the old Philadelphia that got used to corrupt governments that left the city's development stagnant for decades, and they got used to their surroundings remaining the same, and developed the notion that change does not occur in cities. Luckily throughout human history, the change movements always win out. :notacrook:

[TechTalkGuy]

...nothing to change. They got used to their surroundings remaining the same

They should seriously consider moving across the river to Camden (a city that rarely changes). :P

[CoolCzech]

Excellent!!

I think it looks better without the spire.

In fact, I wouldn't mind if they simply replaced the spire with additional floors.

A nice restaurant along with a rooftop observation deck would be a good replacement for the spire. :yes:

It'll be interesting to see this tower if its actually built: all along, there was nothing but naysaying and carping over the Childs/Libeskind Freedom Tower compromise... in particular, of course, over the "tacked on" spire that was placed off-center.

It will be really interesting to see what the critics of the Childs/Libeskind design have to say once this version of it is standing...

[PhillyRising]

I agree with this 1000%. This is the biggest thing, literally and figuratively, being planned in the city right now. We have to let Clarke, Nutter, Fumo and any other politician who will listen know that there is a committed group dedicated to seeing this tower being built at this location and that we are not a city composed entirely of whiney NIMBYs who poo-poo everything that comes down the pike for increasingly arbitrary reasons.
:whip:

Sorry for the run-on sentence.

I'll go if I can boo Fumo.

We should get a large group...pack the front of the line to get all the seats and make the bluehairs have to stand. That will make them have to leave early due to not being able to stand for more than 5 minutes.

:D

[TechTalkGuy]

I'll go if I can boo Fumo.

We should get a large group...pack the front of the line to get all the seats and make the bluehairs have to stand. That will make them have to leave early due to not being able to stand for more than 5 minutes.

:D

Good plan !! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/BigSmile.gif

Just how do you plan on organizing that many supporters who are available in the local area http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/q.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/q.gif

[Don098]

...what if PhillySkyline, PlanPhilly, DAG, lsn4acc, and say Penn Praxis got together to organize a highly orchestrated, well-educated avalanche of thoughtful, heavily researched letters and petitions to the PPC, Clarke, et. al. and load every meeting from here on out? That kind of support would drown out the Kennedy House residents, and show that if Philly wants to compete in the real world, they're going to need us younger, more fresh and forward-thinking generations to stay alive and relevant. If we're going to become America's Next Great City, this kind of development is a mandatory pre-requisite.

P.S. If Fumo is going to try to pull another stunt like today, I think it would be smart to have The Nut behind curtain number 2...what is Ed Rendell's stance on this btw?

I'm quoting myself because I think this got swallowed up by the flurry of posts the day following the meeting...this might answer your question, fish.

[skellergroup]

If this does get built, I think we are going to need some better transportation in the city. As center city grows upward, and transportation remains the same, we are heading for a perfect storm. But what do I really know :)

God I hope it gets built though.

[TechTalkGuy]

If this does get built, I think we are going to need some better transportation in the city.

I have been advocating the Roosevelt Boulevard Subway extension from way back.

You know the tunnel that ends at the old Sears Tower. The underpass that connects to the subway.

Back when the Philadelphia Transit Corporation (PTC) was providing transportation to the city, it was being developed.

I am not certain where SEPTA came it and stopped it.

But when I look at NYC (and who in their right mind can't compare), I mean, just look at what is possible (seriously).

The subways run on electric, not on foreign oil.

But this is really off-topic, so I will just ask everyone not to twist this conversation into a subway thread. :frog:

[H-Ville Man]

VINCE FUMO & KENNEDY HOUSE RELICS

Vince Fumo- Take your egotistical, corrupt ways to your tax payer funded house in Margate and get ready for your trial. When the Feds come for you, it’s time to get fitted for your pretty, orange prison suit. Have fun sitting around your “Federal Country Club” drinking stale coffee and eating bad spaghetti. No matter how much sauce you add, it will never taste like La Veranda. Please stop holding this city back.

Kennedy House Relics- In case you missed the memo, you live in a city. Go back to your afternoon naps during Lawrence Welk and we will wake you up when ACC is done. If you wake up early, and don’t like what you see, call your kids and ask them if you can live with them in the suburbs. Please stop holding this city back.

[H-Ville Man]

TO THE REST

My apologies for my rant. However, as a resident of the suburbs, people don't realize how important a investment of this size & magnitude is for the entire region.

People that visit our city don't come here for King of Prussia, The Main Line, Doylestown, Haddonfield. No....they want to see downtown. I have had more than my fair share of guests visit from out of town. Not one, not a single one, has ever asked to see Bucks County or the Poconos, etc. They want to go downtown.

Investments like ACC should be praised, not torn apart. The devleopers have guts and we need that around here.

[TechTalkGuy]

People that visit our city don't come here for King of Prussia

Don't be so sure!


....they want to see downtown. They want to go downtown.

Investments like ACC should be praised, not torn apart. The devleopers have guts and we need that around here.

Yes, everyone want to see skyscrapers! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/BigSmile.gif

[alasi]

It seems to me, the focus of a campaign should be directed at Clarke. He is the council member for the area, he is not under indictment, and he reacts to prevailing political winds ( i.e. the 125 ft parkway legislation). Rendell will sign off on anything if the locals support it, if the planning commission approves the design then Nutter has to support it or it means he doesn't believe in the process he touted, so Clarke is the only one who needs direct prodding.

[the urban politician]

Wow, just read through the past few pages.

The NIMBY reaction against this tower is just plain infuriating; I feel for you guys.

My wife's cousin & her husband live in an apartment building right across the street from the ACC site (I was just there 2 weeks ago). This project is exactly what is needed on this lot, IMO, to add some vitality to this particular area.

[TechTalkGuy]

This project is exactly what is needed on this lot, IMO, to add some vitality to this particular area.

Thank you! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/BigSmile.gif

[pentopaper50]

Swiney,

I own a condo in Logan Square/Rittenhouse and work in the area too, so ACC is in my backyard. And you know what? Me and hundreds like me in the area are all for it -- 1000%! So I guess that makes me the opposite of a NIMBY -- an IMBY? :-)

I nominate you to lead the charge and mobilize us supporters for a greater Philadelphia! Booyah!

[TechTalkGuy]

I own a condo in Logan Square/Rittenhouse and work in the area too, so ACC is in my backyard. And you know what? Me and hundreds like me in the area are all for it -- 1000%!

Thank goodness we have reasonable people who recognize a great development when you see it!

As a skyscraper enthusiast, I encourage you to make your voice heard.

Do not allow your neighbors bully you into their beliefs. :hell:

God gave you a brain - use it - make the right decisions! ;)

[theWatusi]

So I guess that makes me the opposite of a NIMBY -- an IMBY? :-)



That would make you a YIMBY

[PhillyBoy]

cant wait to see it if it breaks ground :)

<img src="http://designphiladelphia.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/acc_goaheadstealme.jpg">

[SJPhillyBoy]

cant wait to see it if it breaks ground :)

<img src="http://designphiladelphia.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/acc_goaheadstealme.jpg">

That is Bradley R. Maule's photo from www.phillyskyline.com

http://designphiladelphia.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/acc_goaheadstealme.jpg

I can't wait for ground breaking on this either, but patience is of the essence, as it will most likely be a couple of years before construction actually gets off the ground. I am very optimistic it will happen though.

[TechTalkGuy]

:previous: Look how long Comcast Center took - trust me, it's worth the wait! :tup:

[Swinefeld]

Hey, guys, the ACC Tower's website has been updated with lots of new renderings and features. My favorite is the compare buildings link. Check it out! Give it a minute for it to upload.

http://www.acctower.com/

[Muji]

I don't recall this being mentioned before...but it's very exciting! Taken from the "LEED" page of ACC's website.

By design, the American Commerce Center will incorporate an additional subway stop on SEPTA’s Market Frankford EL line on site. This green construction element not only encourages public transportation for employees and clients but for the entire city. Because public transportation currently does not offer a stop between 15th Street and 30th Street Station, SEPTA alienates major parts of Center City from one another. By adding this subway station beneath the building, the American Commerce Center will effectively connect University City with Center City, increase business activity and encourage further development of the areas surrounding 18th and Arch.

[cjPhilly]

I was just going to ask about that as well. Has anyone heard anything else about this additional subway stop?

[Lincolndrive]

Hi Everyone,

I'm fairly sure many of you know about this website but as a reminder, if you can take 30 seconds in your day to visit this website you can tell Councilman Darell Clark that you support the ACC project.

http://www.lsn4acc.com/Show_Your_Support.html

The note is already written for you and the more support he sees, the better chance we can see this project turn into a reality since there are zoning issues.

It literally takes about 20 seconds to do this and you can always send in more than one! Do eeeiit.

[looper121]

Done! maybe 20 seconds.

Anything to get this puppy going.

[BuildItUp]

Hi Everyone,

I'm fairly sure many of you know about this website but as a reminder, if you can take 30 seconds in your day to visit this website you can tell Councilman Darell Clark that you support the ACC project.

http://www.lsn4acc.com/Show_Your_Support.html

The note is already written for you and the more support he sees, the better chance we can see this project turn into a reality since there are zoning issues.

It literally takes about 20 seconds to do this and you can always send in more than one! Do eeeiit.

Thanks Lincoln, I tried to do my part but I think the website is down. "The server at sitesupport.websitetonight.com is taking too long to respond."

[Lincolndrive]

Thanks Lincoln, I tried to do my part but I think the website is down. "The server at sitesupport.websitetonight.com is taking too long to respond."

Well hopefully thats because so many people are sending in letters! Its up again now for what its worth. http://www.lsn4acc.com/Show_Your_Support.html

[skellergroup]

I was just going to ask about that as well. Has anyone heard anything else about this additional subway stop?


No, but an 19th/18th street stop would be great for the city.

[tua21506]

I guess the hight on the first page needs to be updated..1,510...I like it when it grows in hight....maybe they will make it taller.....

[skyscraper]

I was just going to ask about that as well. Has anyone heard anything else about this additional subway stop?

Is this in addition to extending the suburban station concourse to the acc center or instead of?

[winxs]

Is this in addition to extending the suburban station concourse to the acc center or instead of?

I would think it would be all one. Right now, the 15th St Station of MFL is connected to the Suburban Sta concourse as is BSL's City Hall Station (you do have to go through a series of doorways and walk down some corridors a bit). If they build the station underneath 18th and Market, they would just build a corridor underneath 18th from Market to Arch St and extend Suburban Station with a corridor for another 1/2 block from the end of the Comcast Marketplace up to 18th St. If you look at the map I linked to below, you can see that the Regional Rail platforms nearly reach 18th St as it is now. Of course all that noise underground might disturb the blue hair brigade from the Commie blocks. (I say we confiscate their hearing aids.)

If you know your way, you can pretty much walk underground from Comcast all the way down to 7th St. CLICK HERE for map. (http://looting.biz/articles/2008/03/26/map_of_underground_pedestrian_concourses_in_philadelphia/) The area from City Hall to the Market East Station can be a bit dicey, but with the rehab planned for City Hall station, that might get fixed up.

[Ninjawho]

I guess the hight on the first page needs to be updated..1,510...I like it when it grows in hight....maybe they will make it taller.....

Done

[scalziand]

^^Don't forget the thread title.

[volguus zildrohar]

I don't see how WSC could possibly do that.

A) The Market Street subway is city property. The city doesn't have that kind of cash.

B) The Subway is leased to SEPTA. SEPTA isn't going to commit that kind of money to something that big right now between the MSE project and the acquisition of new railcars.

C) Anything of that nature is wayyyyyyyy beyond the jurisdiction of a private entity. As ambitious as this whole project is, this company has never developed anything of this scale before. Adding a subway station, while nice, is kind of wearing too many hats for them.

I came across this on PhillyBlog as well - The El will not be re-routed and station construction would be a major physical undertaking, requiring a realignment of the current four track configuration of the subway and widening of the tunnel possibly encroaching on property lines and I don't know if eminent domain can be claimed on skyscraper sub-basements.

I'd love to see it happen (it would be quite convenient for me) but it doesn't look possible right now to me. And personally if I were placing the station I would make 19th Street a transfer station - it's a convergence point for several bus routes and kind of a center point between the Rittenhouse Square area and the Parkway area, north to south. Since ACC would rise on 19th Street anyway, bringing the concourse down there to Market would work too (on paper, anyway).

[Ninjawho]

^^Don't forget the thread title.

I can't do that...admin has to

[christof]

It would also be foolish to put an el stop at 18th. Currently, there are stops at 11th, 13th, and 15th. If anything the 13th St station should be shut, and a new one open - not at 18th but at 20th.

[wanderer34]

I don't see how WSC could possibly do that.

A) The Market Street subway is city property. The city doesn't have that kind of cash.

B) The Subway is leased to SEPTA. SEPTA isn't going to commit that kind of money to something that big right now between the MSE project and the acquisition of new railcars.

C) Anything of that nature is wayyyyyyyy beyond the jurisdiction of a private entity. As ambitious as this whole project is, this company has never developed anything of this scale before. Adding a subway station, while nice, is kind of wearing too many hats for them.

I came across this on PhillyBlog as well - The El will not be re-routed and station construction would be a major physical undertaking, requiring a realignment of the current four track configuration of the subway and widening of the tunnel possibly encroaching on property lines and I don't know if eminent domain can be claimed on skyscraper sub-basements.

I'd love to see it happen (it would be quite convenient for me) but it doesn't look possible right now to me. And personally if I were placing the station I would make 19th Street a transfer station - it's a convergence point for several bus routes and kind of a center point between the Rittenhouse Square area and the Parkway area, north to south. Since ACC would rise on 19th Street anyway, bringing the concourse down there to Market would work too (on paper, anyway).

While the ACC is a very ambitious project, and has my fullest support, I still feel that the subway infrastructure in this city is very outdated, IMO. The MFL should've had an express trunk line, totaling four tracks instead of the common two, but then again, you can blame the forefathers of the city's subway system for that messup, as they didn't realize that sooner or later, the city west of Broad St would expand.

[volguus zildrohar]

It's not an opinion that the subway is outdated - it's a fact. However, it operates well in its current state as I've stated before.

As you said, the shortsightedness of previous generations leads to today's 'lack of amenities'. Philadelphia's marketable assets would be even more attractive if the provincial mindset of leaders of all stripes weren't so pervasise decades ago.

Also keep in mind that four track express/local configurations were rarities in 1907. New York was the one and only at the time and that was for a practical purpose - time. The distance from West 96th Street to New York City Hall is a lot greater than the distance from 63rd & Market to Philadelphia City Hall. Even today, it remains relatively rare for subway systems because very few need that kind of track capacity. I'd make the argument that is isn't absolutely necessary for the Broad Street Subway (particularly becuase all the branches that were meant for it were never built).

[SJPhillyBoy]

New HQ for the NFL?!?

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/26328349.html

By Joseph N. DiStefano
Inquirer Staff Writer

Build this

Speaking of football: I finally heard a rumor about the proposed 1,500-foot American Commerce Center that almost made sense.
Tower fans love it, but everyone I've talked to in the real estate business says the building is a very long shot, like the abortive Girard Square superblock, the decade-old Philadelphia World Trade Center proposal, and the even older plan to obliterate riverfront chunks of East Camden and turn the place into Disneyland, or something.

You need a tenant before you build a billion-dollar building.

"I hear it's going to be the National Football League," the owner of another Philadelphia high-rise told me.

That's nuts, I thought. Then I remembered that pro football was based here, in the 1950s. And isn't the NFL pretty much a media-entertainment company - like Comcast, whose actual tower is down the block from the proposed American Commerce Center? Oh, and we're cheaper than Manhattan, where the NFL now lives.

"We don't have any plans to go anywhere," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello assured me. "Yes, Bert Bell used to have his office in Bala Cynwyd. But Pete Roselle moved it to New York in 1960, and we've been here since." Major League Baseball said it wasn't leaving New York either.

[Ninjawho]

Psh. W/e.

DiStefano is the same man that scoffed when Brad broke the story initially. It took him days, maybe even weeks to admit it was an actual proposal. He hears "rumors" from his sources all the time and these same people told him it wasn't going to happen, that there wasn't even a proposal. So he can go fly a kite as far as I'm concerned.

Would I like the NFL here? Hell yes. But I don't believe anything he says good or bad.

[CrazyFinger]

I don't see how WSC could possibly do that.

A) The Market Street subway is city property. The city doesn't have that kind of cash.

B) The Subway is leased to SEPTA. SEPTA isn't going to commit that kind of money to something that big right now between the MSE project and the acquisition of new railcars.

C) Anything of that nature is wayyyyyyyy beyond the jurisdiction of a private entity. As ambitious as this whole project is, this company has never developed anything of this scale before. Adding a subway station, while nice, is kind of wearing too many hats for them.

I came across this on PhillyBlog as well - The El will not be re-routed and station construction would be a major physical undertaking, requiring a realignment of the current four track configuration of the subway and widening of the tunnel possibly encroaching on property lines and I don't know if eminent domain can be claimed on skyscraper sub-basements.

I'd love to see it happen (it would be quite convenient for me) but it doesn't look possible right now to me. And personally if I were placing the station I would make 19th Street a transfer station - it's a convergence point for several bus routes and kind of a center point between the Rittenhouse Square area and the Parkway area, north to south. Since ACC would rise on 19th Street anyway, bringing the concourse down there to Market would work too (on paper, anyway).

The only section of Market Street Subway tunnel owned by the city is the section between 24th street and 45th street. The whole el between 46th and 69th and the subway from 24th to 2nd street is owned by SEPTA. The Frankford el and also the entire Broad Street subway is owned by the city.

I don't see how there can be a subway stop opened for this building on Market Street since this building will have an Arch Street address. I guess they would need to build a 2 block concourse.

[Ninjawho]

A two block concourse isn't so unbelievable for a building of this size and importance...

its possible...

likely? we'll see...

[America 117]

WOW
This is really great.
Im really happy for philadelphia!

[excel]

sick height for philly. looks sorta like freedom tower tho. jk.

philly is gangster.

[Ltrain]

philly is gangster.

A little more than I think we'd like to be with all the violence the last few years. http://www.3si.org/forum/images/smilies/new/icon20.gif

[CrazyFinger]

Someone should tell the residents of KH that at one time, their neighborhood was made up of working class rowhomes, which were torn down to make their trendy neighborhood possible. These hard working folks did not have a Vince Fumo as an ally, they were just thrown out on the street.... all for progress... to make way for the BF Parkway. They had no political clout, all they had was their homes, and these were lost without any form of financial recoup. At least the people at KH are not being relocated.... I have no sympathy for them. The one lady made me crack up, she stated "Let's turn Logan Square into Philly's version of Soho and Greenwich Village" Umm, Philly already has it's own version of Soho and the Village.... They are called South Street(Queen Village) and S.13th Street(The Gayborhood).... Whatever. I am really surprised Rendell would make the statement he did.

This is so typical for this city.... Like the young lady said... "we need to be known for more than bell with a crack in it". I also loved how she took thoses blue hairs down a notch.

[Plokoon11]

Wow, this project is supa tall!

[Swinefeld]

Someone should tell the residents of KH that at one time, their neighborhood was made up of working class rowhomes, which were torn down to make their trendy neighborhood possible. These hard working folks did not have a Vince Fumo as an ally, they were just thrown out on the street.... all for progress... to make way for the BF Parkway. They had no political clout, all they had was their homes, and these were lost without any form of financial recoup. At least the people at KH are not being relocated.... I have no sympathy for them. The one lady made me crack up, she stated "Let's turn Logan Square into Philly's version of Soho and Greenwich Village" Umm, Philly already has it's own version of Soho and the Village.... They are called South Street(Queen Village) and S.13th Street(The Gayborhood).... Whatever. I am really surprised Rendell would make the statement he did.

This is so typical for this city.... Like the young lady said... "we need to be known for more than bell with a crack in it". I also loved how she took thoses blue hairs down a notch.
Ha! She left them all pretty speechless. There should be another public meeting in a month or so. As soon as I get word I'll pass it along.

[McBane]

I've made that point countless times...all the people who live near the parkway and count it as the reason they live in their neighborhood and then NIMBY every proposal over 4 floors are clueless to the fact that thousands of people were uprooted from their homes to make way for the Parkway. Now, while we feel bad that it was done in this manner, the fact is, the city as a whole, is MUCH better off having a world class boulevard full of museums than a bunch of rowhomes. People fail to see the big picture. If they could get their heads out of their asses, they would realize what a huge opportunity the ACC is for the entire city. And it's not just an immediate benefit - it will benefit the city for generations to come, long after the NIMBYs are dead and gone.

But anyway, what did Rendell say? Was there some sort of public forum regarding the ACC? Details?

[CrazyFinger]

Darn right! The view from the top of the Hancock Tower in Chicago will set you back $14. Obs Decks can be big money makers in a city with substantial tourist traffic.



Screw that... Just take your girlfriend with you up to the restuartant and have her gaurd the door to the ladies room while you look out the window.... Best view in the entire city.

[skyscraper]

Screw that... Just take your girlfriend with you up to the restuartant and have her gaurd the door to the ladies room while you look out the window.... Best view in the entire city.

my brother got married up there. excellent place for a wedding. during the reception, the window washing gondolla passed by our ballroom, and a huge cheer arose from the drunken crowd at the spectacle. then we went upstairs one flight to watch the fireworks (it was July 3, which is when Chicago does their fireworks.)
too bad the bitch wound up cheating on my brother and they got divorced. but great memories of the wedding itself if not the marriage.

[Don098]

I have a question about LEED certification...do you have to have a glass curtain in order to attain the desirable amount of light? With the Comcast Center, the Cira Center (and perhaps Cira Center South), and the Residences at the Ritz Carleton, I'm worried that another glass curtain is going to look beat. I would love to see some more exterior design elements...the spire isn't going to be glass as well, is it????

[TechTalkGuy]

I have a question about LEED certification...do you have to have a glass curtain in order to attain the desirable amount of light? With the Comcast Center, the Cira Center (and perhaps Cira Center South), and the Residences at the Ritz Carleton, I'm worried that another glass curtain is going to look beat. I would love to see some more exterior design elements...the spire isn't going to be glass as well, is it????

I hate to break the news to you but, all glass adds more light and makes the building more energy efficient.

If you don't like it, don't look at it. :P

[Don098]

I hate to break the news to you but, all glass adds more light and makes the building more energy efficient.

If you don't like it, don't look at it. :P


Well duh, I already knew that...

I'm talking about if it needs to be an uninterrupted glass curtain or not. Could there be external design elements along the floor breaks to break up the monotony?

[TechTalkGuy]

Well duh, I already knew that...

I'm talking about if it needs to be an uninterrupted glass curtain or not. Could there be external design elements along the floor breaks to break up the monotony?

The elements between the floors could be make of stone or other material.

In fact, it could be simply made out of color glass.

I would love to see an aluminum facade myself with dark tint windows. :tup:

[bellabeagle]

What are peoples opinions on the percentage chance of this project happening??

My feelings >>> 65%

[TechTalkGuy]

What are peoples opinions on the percentage chance of this project happening??

90% for me. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/Yay.gif

[wanderer34]

New HQ for the NFL?!?

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/26328349.html

By Joseph N. DiStefano
Inquirer Staff Writer

Build this

Speaking of football: I finally heard a rumor about the proposed 1,500-foot American Commerce Center that almost made sense.
Tower fans love it, but everyone I've talked to in the real estate business says the building is a very long shot, like the abortive Girard Square superblock, the decade-old Philadelphia World Trade Center proposal, and the even older plan to obliterate riverfront chunks of East Camden and turn the place into Disneyland, or something.

You need a tenant before you build a billion-dollar building.

"I hear it's going to be the National Football League," the owner of another Philadelphia high-rise told me.

That's nuts, I thought. Then I remembered that pro football was based here, in the 1950s. And isn't the NFL pretty much a media-entertainment company - like Comcast, whose actual tower is down the block from the proposed American Commerce Center? Oh, and we're cheaper than Manhattan, where the NFL now lives.

"We don't have any plans to go anywhere," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello assured me. "Yes, Bert Bell used to have his office in Bala Cynwyd. But Pete Roselle moved it to New York in 1960, and we've been here since." Major League Baseball said it wasn't leaving New York either.


And that's what it is: a rumor!!! As much as I've been a booster for Phila, I don't see the NFL moving into Philly as long as NYC is the financial, marketing, and advertising capital in America. That's just the way it is.

Also keep in mind that four track express/local configurations were rarities in 1907. New York was the one and only at the time and that was for a practical purpose - time. The distance from West 96th Street to New York City Hall is a lot greater than the distance from 63rd & Market to Philadelphia City Hall. Even today, it remains relatively rare for subway systems because very few need that kind of track capacity. I'd make the argument that is isn't absolutely necessary for the Broad Street Subway (particularly becuase all the branches that were meant for it were never built).

It's understood, but did you know that the PRR was the first railroad to use the four-track configuration??? Think about it. I'm just saying that Phila thought about it first and it's surprising and even a little shocking that Phila, which was once home to the richest railroad in the world, doesn't have as much to show for it's railroad heritage as Chicago or NYC in that regard. But an express line from 69th St to the NE would've been a more efficient way for mass transit than the current system.

[stampy88]

Looks like it won't be TD Bank either

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/No_TD_tower_in_Philly_future_.html

No TD tower in Philly future?

PhillyDeals reader David Sinclair suggests a conceivable tenant for American Commerce Center or any of the other speculative towers being floated for Center City: Why not TD Bank Financial Group?
The Canada giant has acquired a string of big U.S. financial institutions, including TD Banknorth of Portland, Maine; TD Ameritrade, based in Jersey City and Omaha; and, most recently, Commerce Bancorp, of Cherry Hill. Maybe they want a signature U.S. building in a not-so-expensive city where they also have a lot customers? Maybe their swollen Canadian dollars can finance a truly North American edifice complex?
TD is no stranger to soaring architecture. Its six-building Toronto headquarters and Toronto Dominion Bank Tower was designed by celebrity architect Mies van der Rohe.
Problem: U.S. commercial banks are in a fight for survival. None of the big U.S. banks in Philly -- Wachovia, PNC, Citizens, Bank of America, Sovereign -- have chosen to build imperial high-rises. They occupy their predecessors' decades-old digs, mostly.
And TD promises not to, either, though salesmen keep calling. "As we said many times, we'll continue to have both executives and a significant employee base in both Portland and at our extensive (former Commerce) campus in the Mount Laurel-Cherry Hill area," said TD spokesman Neil Parmenter.
American Commerce developer Joseph Grasso isn't fueling rumors. "The climate's really difficult now," he told me when I asked him if he's landed tenants or lenders for his supertall. "We're still moving forward. It'll take time."

Posted by Joseph N. DiStefano @ 1:17 PM Permalink | Post a comment

[Don098]

http://www.pbase.com/image/95181770.jpg

Sigh :slob: If for some evil reason this building does not get built :no:, I will always look at this picture for visual satisfaction. I can only hope that the facade of this building will look more like this rendering than the official glass curtain ones.

P.S. As I searched the emoticons, :whatthefuck: is this: :babyeat: ???!!! "Let me pick your brain?"

[CrazyFinger]

I've made that point countless times...all the people who live near the parkway and count it as the reason they live in their neighborhood and then NIMBY every proposal over 4 floors are clueless to the fact that thousands of people were uprooted from their homes to make way for the Parkway. Now, while we feel bad that it was done in this manner, the fact is, the city as a whole, is MUCH better off having a world class boulevard full of museums than a bunch of rowhomes. People fail to see the big picture. If they could get their heads out of their asses, they would realize what a huge opportunity the ACC is for the entire city. And it's not just an immediate benefit - it will benefit the city for generations to come, long after the NIMBYs are dead and gone.

But anyway, what did Rendell say? Was there some sort of public forum regarding the ACC? Details?


According to Fumo... Rendell said any building over 500ft built on this lot, will not get any state tax incentives.

[Ninjawho]

According to Fumo... Rendell said any building over 500ft built on this lot, will not get any state tax incentives.

Slick Vince is going to be in jail...its going to be a moot point.

[We Got Five]

Everything is a moot point until we show the business community that we're a desirable place to live and work.

[wanderer34]

According to Fumo... Rendell said any building over 500ft built on this lot, will not get any state tax incentives.


Face it, Fumo is full of shit on this one. If that's the case, then how the hell did Comcast get KOZ zoning??? As much as I'll say thast Fumo did whatever to get funding for Philadelphia, it's time to let him go.

[10101000]

I love the drawing!

[DocAwesome]

Face it, Fumo is full of shit on this one. If that's the case, then how the hell did Comcast get KOZ zoning??? As much as I'll say thast Fumo did whatever to get funding for Philadelphia, it's time to let him go.

Good question. How DID comcast get KOZ? More importantly, unless there is a level of irony that I'm not picking up on, why are there so many people who think it's under KOZ?

If this does bag that big lead tenant and gets built, great. I'm all for it. Still, I agree that the curtains throught the city start to get repetative, and am hoping for some non-glass features to decorate my view. The sub 500" look promising, imho.

[alasi]

By the way, Comcast didn't get KOZ, but instead got a special deal from Rendell.

[BuildItUp]

Face it, Fumo is full of shit on this one. If that's the case, then how the hell did Comcast get KOZ zoning??? As much as I'll say thast Fumo did whatever to get funding for Philadelphia, it's time to let him go.
Comcast filed for KOZ or KOIZ (i for improvement) but was denied however the state granted around $40 million for the subway station improvements and public plaza to kick start the project.

[BuildItUp]

What are peoples opinions on the percentage chance of this project happening??

My feelings >>> 65%

Chances this will get be built in the next 1-3 years is a big fat ZERO. The financial industry is HURTING big time globally. Whenever the US sneezes the rest of the world will catch a cold, excluding only the oil rich Middle East. According to the most recent Business Week article, "banks worldwide will experience an additional $200 billion in losses on top the $500 billion they've already taken." When it is all said and done the total amount could a be a whooping $2 TRILLION. By that estimate alone, which bank or financial institution would be brave enough and step up to the plate and finance this project? I love to see this behemoth get built, but there are so much obstacles. The most obvious is finding an anchor tenant, without that the chances are less than your fantasy of 65%. Sorry for my gloomy outlook.

[gttx]

Then let the Saudis pay for it.

[tua21506]

nvm

[scalziand]

Err, i think Builditup meant 2 trillion to be the amount the banks lost, not the cost of ACC.

[Don098]

I went to today's PPC meeting. The biggest problem was the old folks from Kennedy House showed up in force, now doubt bussed in by KH's anti-tower president. There were so many old farts at that meeting you'd thought they were handing out free Depends underwear. The basis of the meeting was to address concerns from the locals and to discuss the zoning variance needed to change that plot of land from C4 (150 feet) to C5.

And then Vince Fumo showed up.

As for the media, they seemed very interested in interviewing the NIMBY side while ignoring the pro-development side. I guess that makes for a better news story.

Next meeting is in September.

So has anyone heard when this PPC meeting will be this month? We need to organize, and I need to be able to make it.

[cubanChris]

And then Vince Fumo showed up.

As for the media, they seemed very interested in interviewing the NIMBY side while ignoring the pro-development side. I guess that makes for a better news story.

In other news, the jury selection for the Fumo trial has begun =) so... thats a plus

[Swinefeld]

Major announcement

The Philadelphia City Planning Commission hearing regarding the American Commerce Center will be on Tuesday, September 16th at 1:00 PM. I'll be getting the location along with some new renderings later today. If you plan on attending be there early. Seriously, please show up no later than 12:15 to ensure that the Kennedy House people don't clog the meeting.

[Don098]

Damnit! I can't make it! I'm going to be out of town :-( If you can make it, PLEASE go. I want to see you guys on the news!

[Ninjawho]

I don't have class so I shall try to be there. We should pick a place to meet if we're going early...to go in in force...

[alasi]

For those who can't attend, isn't there a website for proponents of this project. If you want to show support, you might send comments there. If the host of the sight is willing, or if a designee can be found, written comments can be entered into the official record at the meeting. Imagine the impact if enough comments could be gathered to make a loud thud on the boards table as they were dropped off.

[Swinefeld]

The City Planning Commission Hearing that was scheduled for Tuesday has been pushed back into October. As soon as I get an exact date and location I'll pass that along to you as well.

[Eigenwelt]

:poke: what about those new renderings you mentioned?

[Swinefeld]

In time, my friend. In time.

[BuildItUp]

For those wondering when ACC will get built, the following article will put things into perspective. Without money there will be no building. Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch are going the way of Bear Stearns and the dodo birds.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown

[wanderer34]

I can only pray that the tower gets built, because with the current economy as it is, with the bailouts of Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and AIG, and the untimely "deaths" of Lehman Bros and Merrill Lynch, this is going to be a disaster nationwide.

Right now, the city is starting to cut services and I'm hoping that Walnut St Capital (developers of the ACC) pull a WTC on this one in reference towards this getting built ASAP. I can only just pray. We need this building like we need another championship parade on Broad St!!! BADLY!!!

You can thank Bush and Co. for this disgusting mess!!!

[Don098]

In time, my friend. In time.

In how much time?! You can't tease us like that...it's cruel! lol

[Jes44]

wanderer- you can thank your buddies chris dodd and barack obama who were number 1 and number 2 for accepting lobbying donations from fannie mae and freddie mac, how obvious you overlook these facts.

I thought with the building of a new parking lot which would replace the existing parking lot which would be used for the ACC project gives more credence to the possibility of ACC getting off of the ground. I guess if the economy was better, there would be a better chance of attracting a major tenant for ACC.

[Don098]

how obvious you overlook...facts.

Now THAT'S ironic coming from a republican...lol

Even the Chicago Spire is in trouble...I don't think we'll be seeing any new construction anytime soon.

[zuelas]

We need this building like we need another championship parade on Broad St!!! BADLY!!!

^^^ Really? Didn't Philly just add a new tallest to its cbd. You've been luckier than most so I wouldn't be that devastated if this didn't work out like you'd prefer.

[BigDan35]

We need this building like we need another championship parade on Broad St!!! BADLY!!!

^^^ Really? Didn't Philly just add a new tallest to its cbd. You've been luckier than most so I wouldn't be that devastated if this didn't work out like you'd prefer.

Who cares what you wouldn't be

[Ninjawho]

I'm still not convinced the financial crisis will completely mothball this one. Not Everything is in the crapper and if WSC has financing secured from areas of the economy that haven't been demolished, (or maybe rich Chinese investors!!!), it might still have a heartbeat.

I guess I'm more worried about rent dropping in NYC making it harder for us to get a main tenant...that really was something we had some leverage on. Also if the city budget is all screwed up, that business tax reform might not be coming...which is more bad news for the tenant search methinks...

[buildup]

I would say just about all large construction projects that do not have a shovel in the ground are on hold. It will be one or two years before any large projects get started.

[CentralGrad258]

Not to get anyone's hopes up, but the developer that built the Comcast Center has aquired the rights to built the ACC:
New life for skyscraper plan?

Hill International, the giant Marlton construction manager, has replaced Joseph Grasso's Walnut Street Capital as developer of the planned 1,510-foot American Commerce Center office and hotel project at 1800 Arch St. in Center City, in partnership with Garrett Miller.
"Right now is a tough market. It's going to take several years to build these thing. But it'll be an amazing skyscraper," says David Richter, Hill International's president. Hill has set up a new division, Hill International Real Estate Partners LP, with Miller as president. Richter said the group is considering other Philadelphia-area building projects, too.
The $7 billion-asset Multi-Employer Property Trust, a building-trades labor union pension fund that funded Miller and Grasso's purchase of the ground last year, agreed to make an equity investment in the tower. But the project still needs bank financing, and it won't get built until the partners have signed some big corporate tenants, Richter said.
"We think it would make a great corporate headquarters. We've identified and have been talking to a lot of potential tenants," Richter added. He won't name any. "There's two components to every real estate deal -- the equity and the debt. Once we have sufficient tenants lined up, we'd talk to banks." Hill won't be putting in its own equity, Richter said.
Hill is an international construction project manager (projects include Liberty Property Trust's recent Comcast tower at 16th and Arch, which American Commerce would eclipse), and it's announced a string of deals in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates in recent months. Hill's global contacts may prove useful in fundraising and tenant-luring. "Garrett is a dealmaker. He has the vision. We bring to the table an expertise in getting it built," Richter added. He noted Hill was also project manager on Liberty Property Trust's Comcast tower at 16th and Arch.
The tower would add 2.2 million square feet of office space to Center City, where Class A offices have been close to flat, at around 40 million square feet, since the early 1990s. (New towers like Comcast have only replaced old buildings like part of 2 Liberty Place that have been turned into apartments.)
Attorney Peter F. Kelsen of Blank Rome LLP, who's been pleading American Commerce Center's case in its attempts to win city zoning variances, said a study done for the partners shows new office space would help attract new tenants to the city. Hill put out a press release -- link here.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Hill_International_takes_over_American_Commerce_Center_tower_plan.html

[NYC4Life]

Certainly good news, but this tower is still probably several years off from starting construction.

[tua21506]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/today/

[Swinefeld]

Hill International Launches Real Estate Development Company and Acquires Rights to Develop American Commerce Center

MARLTON, N.J. & PHILADELPHIA, Sep 24, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Hill International (NYSE:HIL), the global leader in managing construction risk, announced today that it has formed Hill International Real Estate Partners, LP ("HIREP"), a firm that will provide real estate development services on commercial, hospitality and other projects throughout the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast regions. HIREP, which intends to partner with institutional equity firms, will pursue deals across the investment spectrum, not just those with development and construction components.

It was also announced that HIREP has acquired from Walnut Street Capital all of its interests in the American Commerce Center in Center City Philadelphia. The American Commerce Center is a proposed 2.2-million-square-foot office and hotel tower to be located at 1800 Arch Street which, upon completion, will be the tallest skyscraper in Philadelphia, and one of the tallest buildings in the Western Hemisphere, with a height of approximately 1,510 feet. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed.

"We are very excited to be expanding into real estate development services in the U.S. and view this move as another step in our strategic plan to provide both development services and project management services on major projects," said Irvin E. Richter, Hill's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. "Long-term, we expect to grow Hill International Real Estate Partners into a formidable player in the development market for office, hotel and other projects throughout the region," added Richter.

"Hill International will provide HIREP with a tremendously strong platform to pursue development opportunities. Having in-house construction management expertise will provide HIREP with a valuable strategic advantage when pursuing development opportunities. I am thrilled to be joining them and look forward to growing this business in Philadelphia and beyond", said Garrett Miller, newly-named President of Hill International Real Estate Partners and the former President of Walnut Street Capital.

Hill International, with 2,100 employees in 80 offices worldwide, provides program management, project management, construction management and construction claims and consulting services. Engineering News-Record magazine recently ranked Hill as the 11th largest construction management firm in the United States. For more information on Hill, please visit our website at www.hillintl.com.

This press release includes certain statements that fall within the definition of "forward-looking statements" under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Any such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, overall economic and market conditions, competitors' and clients' actions, and other conditions, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated, including those risks identified in Hill's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Accordingly, such statements should be considered in light of these risks. Any prediction by Hill is only a statement of management's belief at the time the prediction is made. There can be no assurance that any prediction once made will continue thereafter to reflect management's belief, and Hill does not undertake to update publicly its predictions, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

(HIL-G)

SOURCE: Hill International (http://ir.hillintl.com/releaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=336508)

[Wheelingman04]

If this project fails then I know for sure there is no GOD.

[SJPhillyBoy]

This article was never posted.

http://media.philly.com/images/20080925_inq_hill25-aa.jpg
An artist's rendering of the American Commerce Center, which is expected to be built at 1800 Arch St.
Photo Courtesy: www.philly.com

Posted on Thu, Sep. 25, 2008

Hill takes on Philadelphia skyscraper
By Maria Panaritis

Inquirer Staff Writer

A new developer took over plans yesterday to build one of the nation's tallest skyscrapers in the heart of downtown Philadelphia.
Hill International Inc., of Marlton, a fast-growing construction-management firm founded by Cherry Hill native Irvin Richter, said it had bought out Walnut Street Capital L.L.C.'s interest in the proposed $1 billion American Commerce Center at 1800 Arch St.

Terms were not disclosed.

Officials said the new development team, which includes one member of the Walnut Street group that hatched the skyscraper plan earlier this year, would release more details at an Oct. 21 appearance before the Philadelphia City Planning Commission.

Hill, which has done extensive work managing construction projects in the Middle East and North Africa, said it had formed a subsidiary - Hill International Real Estate Partners L.P. - to handle development of the 1,510-foot-tall skyscraper.

Hill president and chief operating officer David Richter becomes chief executive officer of the new entity, and Garrett Miller becomes president once he leaves Walnut Street Capital on Wednesday.

Miller, president of Walnut, will be in charge of luring tenants to the 2.2 million square feet of office space and hotel rooms on the drawing board.

The skyscraper, which has met opposition from community groups, requires city zoning approvals. Developers have not yet secured full cash commitments or loans needed for the sizable project. A Seattle pension fund has said it would provide some cash.

But securing tenants is critical to obtaining financing.

The subsidiary marks Hill's first official foray into the development business in the United States. Hill recently set up a similar partnership with an equity partner in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates.

The partnership gives Hill exclusive rights to construction-management work on the skyscraper and gives it a cut of developer fees. The company went public in 2006.

Richter said Hill would put up no equity toward construction - a model similar to its Abu Dhabi partnership.

The new company would replicate deals like this across the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast corridor to grow business, Richter said.

Under the Center City deal, Hill and Miller become equal partners, and Hill becomes exclusive project manager when construction begins.

"I think that this sort of relationship gives them a secure source of referral work for projects - as well as another way to capitalize on their expertise by gaining a greater share of the potential revenue associated with the project," said analyst Tim McHugh, who tracks the publicly traded company for William Blair & Co. L.L.C. in Chicago. McHugh's company has an investment-banking relationship with Hill.

Hill's buyout of Walnut Street Capital's stake includes that of Walnut chief executive officer Joseph Grasso, who did not return a call seeking comment.

The new partnership came about after Hill reached out to Grasso and Miller's company, Richter said. "We were talking to Walnut Street Capital and Garrett about doing project management on the building," he said.

Miller said he had met for months with city officials and downtown residents about the skyscraper, which would become the tallest in Philadelphia and one of the tallest in North America.

City Council legislation would be needed to clear the path for construction.

"We've engaged the neighborhood now for the better part of eight months, and now we are looking to present our final case," he said.
Contact staff writer Maria Panaritis at 215-854-2431 or mpanaritis@phillynews.com.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/29734089.html