PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS [Archive] - Page 8

bucks native

Jun 29, 2008, 6:23 PM

from here: http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2008/06/30/newscolumn3.html

Making some progress

Walnut Street Capital, which proposed a giant skyscraper at 18th and Arch streets in Center City, is making headway on its plans in what may be a new model of how development projects get done.

With Mayor Michael Nutter's edict to empower the planning commission to help shape the city's future and vision, Walnut Street has attempted to veer from the old way of getting projects out of the ground. Since March, it has engaged the neighborhood, City Council, the mayor and planning commission on the project called American Commerce Center. The old way of doing things had developers hashing out plans with the community and then seeking Council approval with little regard to how a project fit in.

Legislation was introduced last week that would re-zone the site, lift the height limit and approve the proposed density. The developer still plans to meet with community groups and planners to work out any issues in hopes the commission will recommend the project for approval, said Peter Kelsen, Walnut Street's lawyer. Best-case scenario has Council approving the legislation next autumn with a ground breaking when a lead tenant has signed on.

bayrider

Jul 1, 2008, 7:58 AM

I hope there are more design elements to the building's facade besides sheer glass and an unconventional angle or two at the top. Right now, the renderings look really bad, other than the height of course.

Fabb

Jul 1, 2008, 8:32 AM

Best-case scenario has Council approving the legislation next autumn with a ground breaking when a lead tenant has signed on.

I love the best-case scenario... even though it includes an unknown element.

Don098

Jul 1, 2008, 5:15 PM

Here is that article about the ACC with five reasons it will and will not get built from yesterday's Inquirer. http://www.philly.com/inquirer/business/Is_Center_City_Philadelphia_ready_to_take_on_a__Super_Skyscraper.html

wally

Jul 4, 2008, 2:51 AM

When's his last day in office?

Thursday, July 3, 2008
Fumo vs. SuperSkyscraper?

From Marcia Gelbart:

Though it is his last year in office, state Sen. Vincent J. Fumo is not going quietly into the night.
The legendary lawmaker from South Philadelphia is causing some pains for Philadelphia officials - Mayor Nutter, for one — with some last-minute moves as Harrisburg tried to wrap up business before summer.
What Fumo did was add some controversial lanaguage to an already controversial bill regarding special tax-free areas known as Keystone Opportunity Zones (KOZ). Nutter was personally pushing that bill since it would help entice a big financial firm, BlackRock Inc., to move to move 1,100 employees here from central New Jersey.
The Fumo amendment, consisting of one paragraph in a 16-page bill, would have prohibited the KOZ designation on any land that was within 1,001-feet of any parcel with a project that received $20 million or more in state assistance in the last four years.
Fumo’s spokeman did not return a call or email to shine any light on what this language was all about.
But some political insiders suspect it had nothing to do with BlackRock. Rather, it may have been aimed at preventing Philadelphia’s newest proposed skyscraper, the American Commerce Center, from getting any state aid or being eligible for the city’s 10-year tax abatement on new construction. At 1,510 feet, it would be Philadelphia’s tallest building — and just a block from the city’s current tallest building, the Comcast Center.
Though approved in the Senate, the Fumo language Wednesday in the House, bringing relief to senior Nutter aides who feared it might jeopardize the whole bill.
And so that’s one problem averted, for the moment. The bill is expected to go back to the Senate, where Fumo will have another whack at it, if he chooses.

Posted by Jeff Shields @ 5:32 PM

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/heardinthehall/22873379.html

Apex

Jul 4, 2008, 4:30 AM

I feel like the base is an ingenious combination for a supertall, but as been mentioned before, the top is really bland and disappointing. Given a redesign for the Apex and I'd love to see it built!!

TheOldMan

Jul 4, 2008, 4:34 AM

When's his last day in office?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/heardinthehall/22873379.html

Somebody whack this guy please. Dont wait for his term to expire. what the you know what...for someone who proportedly is out for Philadelphia's best interests, he is acting like one gigantic monkey wrench. This developemnt would create at least a thousand permanent positions within the city, generate thousands more in construction jobs, and most importantly, let Philadelphia take one gigantic leap forward in world wide recognition.

No one is trying to build this thing in the middle of some residental neighborhood or in the middle of an oil refinerey complex. It is proposed for the CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT !! Last time i checked, that is where a city sets aside space for its tallest structures....but what the hell do I know, right ?

Don098

Jul 4, 2008, 5:12 AM

I went to the DAG meeting this morning and the ACC was brought up. The new zoning ordinance needs to be changed from C4 to C5 which is five and half times more square footage than the C4, so it's not a "minor" change as we were led to believe. Also, the traffic study that is being conducted has "a lot of missing parts and has been questioned." Apparently not much has changed since the last DAG meeting when the architects presented the ACC. There is a growing "sizable opposition", mainly from the usual suspects like our friends below in commie house, as well as the Loganites. Some have been calling the proposal "premature"...what's meant by that I have no idea.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2634934903_59195af5bd.jpg?v=0

sciguy0504

Jul 4, 2008, 2:00 PM

"Traffic study"?

On it's face, it's hilarious because we're in a city. However, when you note that ACC will be connected to a major transportation hub it's downright scary.

Swinefeld

Jul 4, 2008, 3:16 PM

People, send an email to Vince Fumo NOW and urge him to support the ACC Tower. Do it. Sometimes they actually listen.

http://www.fumo.com/email.htm

BuildItUp

Jul 5, 2008, 4:42 AM

Below is my e-mail:

Mr. Fumo as our city's leader and state Senator, I am appalled at your opposition to the American Commerce Center proposal. This building is proposed in the heart of center city where it belongs, not in Roxborough, Northeast Philly or South Philly neighborhoods. If built this building will bring thousands of jobs to this city, which in turn will bring other jobs, not to mention the additional tax revenues to city and state. I sincerely believe that it is our elected leader's responsibility to ensure that project like the ACC moves forward not stalled or opposed. I hope you will reconsidered your opposition and embrace this project and set a precedence for other leaders of this great city. Thank you.

kraggman

Jul 9, 2008, 12:48 AM

What exactly is Fumo's problem??

GarCastle

Jul 9, 2008, 1:36 AM

What exactly is Fumo's problem??

Apparently he was not paid off.

SJPhillyBoy

Jul 10, 2008, 1:01 PM

It is going to be 2 or 3 years before a hole starts to get dug for the foundation of ACC, but I like how the progression of this development is going. One step at a time, but things are moving in the right direction.

cubanChris

Jul 10, 2008, 6:15 PM

More News on ACC at planphilly.com

http://www.planphilly.com/node/3515

So looks like we have more details coming to us in a weeks time. Good to have some provided information again instead of speculation... not that I don't enjoy the speculation :)

theWatusi

Jul 10, 2008, 7:44 PM

looks promising

Don098

Jul 10, 2008, 8:22 PM

"Asked if there were any companies interested in being anchor tenants at such a signature building, he would only allow, 'Possibly.'”

Hahaha that's awesome. I wish I could have been there to read his body language.

Question: have any proposals of the this scale avoided redesigns in the past, or is there always a redesign?

We Got Five

Jul 11, 2008, 2:19 PM

One would think such a bleak outlook for New Jersey would help persuade a company like to TD Bank North to look at other options...

http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2008/07/07/daily48.html?surround=lfn

philatonian

Jul 11, 2008, 2:54 PM

What exactly is Fumo's problem??

Just one of the old-world corrupt Philadelphia politicians clinging to their last shred of power. Wasn't he supposed to go to jail? I can't wait for the last of these old guys to be gone.

SJPhillyBoy

Jul 11, 2008, 5:26 PM

Public hearing set for giant skyscraper
Philadelphia Business Journal - by Natalie Kostelni

The proposed American Commerce Center is set to go before the Philadelphia Planning Commission on Tuesday in what is expected to be a more thorough and formal presentation of the massive project.

The presentation by Walnut Street Capital to the planning commission comes nearly five months after the Philadelphia real estate firm announced its intentions to construct a mixed-use tower rising 1,500 feet and totaling 2.2 million square feet on a parking lot at 18th Street and Arch Street in Center City. It also comes after the developer has held dozens of meetings with neighbors, planning commission staff and conducted various impact studies. While the skyscraper will include office, retail, entertainment and hotel space, the developer will unveil plans that will show an extension of the SEPTA public transit concourse running from Suburban Station to 19th and Arch streets, said Peter Kelsen, a lawyer with Blank Rome who is representing Walnut Street.

An extended concourse will create an opportunity for other buildings to tie into it as well as an underground retail corridor. It's also not unlike what Liberty Property Trust (NYSE:LRY) did with Comcast Center at 18th Street and John F. Kennedy Boulevard. There the Malvern, Pa., real estate investment trust received $30 million in state infrastructure funds to offset the cost of that portion of the project.

Walnut Street would also seek out some public funds to support an expansion of the underground concourse.

The planning commission meeting scheduled for Tuesday is the first official and public review by the board. Aside from the developer, the building's architect, Gene Kohn of Kohn Pedersen Fox will also attend.

It's unlikely the planning commission will take any action, said Kelsen. He expects one or more meetings for the board to fully evaluate the project and make its recommendation.
Nice.

flashflood

Jul 13, 2008, 7:52 PM

This Tuesday, the American Commerce Center needs your help!

What: Help the Planning Commission see the widespread support for the ACC

When: Tuesday, July 15

Time: 1:00 PM

Where: 1515 Arch Street, 18th floor

By attending this meeting and showing your support for the ACC, you will help bring Philadelphia onto the world's stage as a leader in green development and forward thinking growth.

Please join us on Tuesday, July 15th at 1:00 PM.

Swinefeld

Jul 14, 2008, 2:21 PM

Proposed skyscraper takes steps forward
by solomon d. leach / metro philadelphia

JUL 14, 2008

Developers hoping to add another supersized skyscraper to the Philadelphia skyline will move forward tomorrow and meet with the city’s Planning Commission.

The American Commerce Center would be taller than the Comcast Center by more than 500 feet.

Walnut Street Capital, which is proposing the 1,500-foot American Commerce Center, is scheduled to make a formal presentation on their plan of development as a follow-up to an April informational meeting.

If constructed, the tower would be among the tallest in North America, although at least two projects already under way, including New York’s Freedom Tower, would be larger.

Developers have met with civic groups and area residents since announcing the plans five months ago, but would still need zoning approval from City Council. Councilman Darrell Clarke introduced legislation last month for the project, which will be taken up when Council resumes in the fall.

“The details of amenities of public benefits have been fleshed out,” said Peter Kelsen, the attorney representing Walnut Street.

American Commerce Center, which would cover 2.2 million square feet at 18th and Arch streets, is expected to combine retail, hotel, entertainment and office space. There has been expressed interest in the retail portion, Kelsen said, but he declined to reveal the companies.

Much like Comcast Center — the tower it would surpass in the city by more than 500 feet — Walnut Street’s project aims to extend the underground concourse and be certified as a green project.

http://www.metro.us/metroimages/14338.jpg

Swinefeld

Jul 14, 2008, 7:33 PM

:D

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dWghFMSo-uE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dWghFMSo-uE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Ninjawho

Jul 15, 2008, 1:00 AM

LOL!

that is pure win swinefeld....

hahaha

Swinefeld

Jul 15, 2008, 1:32 AM

One of my all time fave movies too.

"I didn't know men could build such things." :haha:

We Got Five

Jul 15, 2008, 2:35 AM

Tomorrow is one of the most important days in Philadelphia's history. I wish WSC the best in their presentation.

Let's go ACC.

TechTalkGuy

Jul 15, 2008, 3:16 AM

I sincerely hope this tower gets approved for construction soon! :)

Don098

Jul 15, 2008, 4:13 AM

I sincerely hope this tower gets approved for construction soon! :)

So do the developers, I can imagine, as material costs continue to soar. They've already had to bump the price tag up $200 million, or another 25%.

pwp

Jul 15, 2008, 4:20 AM

Tomorrow is one of the most important days in Philadelphia's history. I wish WSC the best in their presentation.

Let's go ACC.

Seriously. Good luck everyone.

NYC4Life

Jul 15, 2008, 5:45 AM

cityguy

Jul 15, 2008, 11:26 AM

With America's current economic problems,it's hard to believe this project will go ahead,maybe the next construction cycle.

shakman

Jul 15, 2008, 12:57 PM

With America's current economic problems,it's hard to believe this project will go ahead,maybe the next construction cycle.

(I' M BACK!!!)

I may not have posted in awhile but I have been keeping tab on things...

With the current economic cycle, it is quite possible this gets built. There plenty of other highrises under construction during the current economy.

skyscraper

Jul 15, 2008, 1:21 PM

How can this tower have a roof height of 1,210 feet, yet only have 63 floors? Are the ceilings that high? In any case, this tower would dramatically change the Philadelphia skyline and greatly compliment the Comcast Center.

this building will have a pretty substantial floor plate area. one thing that will facilitate its leed rating is to have high ceilings to allow daylight to reach as far into the building as possible. the higher the ceilings, the deeper into the building light gets. the comcast center has floor-floor heights over 17 feet, and has smaller floor areas, and is leed certified. the acc would have floor-floor heights over 19 feet with larger floor plates.

skyscraper

Jul 15, 2008, 1:27 PM

With America's current economic problems,it's hard to believe this project will go ahead,maybe the next construction cycle.

as I've said before, skyscraper economics 101 dictates that recessions/depressions are good times to build skyscrapers because labor is typically cheaper, materials are slightly cheaper (although labor is the governing cost)and because of the length of time it takes to build the building it will hopefully be completed as the economy is rebounding and needs buildings like this to accomodate that recovery (that is, expanded buisinesses, more residents, and tourists needing hotels, etc.).
the skyscrapers completed in Philadelphia in the late 80s/early 90s are testimony that boom times are bad times to build trophies like the mellon building and the bell atlantic building. they were occupied by their namesake companies but few others when they opened. when the local economy went sour in the early/mid 90s, those buildings did not fill up much (I don't have the exact occupancy numbers, just going by my recollection).

SJPhillyBoy

Jul 15, 2008, 2:41 PM

http://imgsrv.kyw1060.com/image/DbGraphic/200807/1006662.jpg

http://www.kyw1060.com/Panel-Reviews-Phila--Skyscraper-Proposal/2594640

Posted: Tuesday, 15 July 2008 2:11AM

Phila. Planning Panel Reviews Skyscraper Proposal

by KYW's Mike Dunn

The Philadelphia Planning Commission was taking its first hard look on Tuesday at plans for what could end up being the tallest building in the city -- a 63-story skyscraper proposed for 18th and Arch Streets, in center city.

Peter Kelsen, attorney for developers Walnut Street Capital, says the "American Commerce Center" would rise above the nearby Comcast Tower, with a spire that would rise to 1,500 feet:

"I think it would be about the fourth tallest building in North America."

And he says they'll pack a lot in to the project:

"It will involve retail commercial space, a five-star hotel, and a world-class office component. The office component will contain about 1.3 million square feet. And it's going to bring a tremendous amount of activity and architectural integrity to Philadelphia."

Underground, a concourse with more retail will connect with SEPTA's commuter concourse.

Kelsen (right) says they hope to attract as lead tenant an out-of-town corporation:

"Our intention is to use this building to attract a headquarters user from outside of Philadelphia. And there are expressions of interest from outside organizations that would like to look at Philadelphia as their headquarters city."

Unlike the construction of the Comcast Tower, these developers are not looking for city or state tax breaks, at least not yet. But residents of condos in the area are concerned that this would only add to traffic congestion, and a blocked skyline from their windows. They were expected to sound off to the Planning Commission on Tuesday.

More sessions are likely before the commission votes, and then the zoning questions will go to City Council.

(Graphics from Walnut Street Capital. Kelsen photo from Blank Rome.)

http://imgsrv.kyw1060.com/image/kyw/UserFiles/Image/acc_model_tall.jpg

Lecom

Jul 15, 2008, 3:05 PM

But residents of condos in the area are concerned that this would only add to traffic congestion, and a blocked skyline from their windows.
Boo-hoo, cry me a river.

aaron38

Jul 15, 2008, 4:41 PM

this building will have a pretty substantial floor plate area. one thing that will facilitate its leed rating is to have high ceilings to allow daylight to reach as far into the building as possible. the higher the ceilings, the deeper into the building light gets. the comcast center has floor-floor heights over 17 feet, and has smaller floor areas, and is leed certified. the acc would have floor-floor heights over 19 feet with larger floor plates.

Okay, so you save energy on lighting during daylight hours, but how do you heat it? Are there ceiling fans to keep the heat from being 10 feet above your head?
It seems to me that more energy will be spent pushing air around than would be needed for lighting. How is overall energy use lower?

That doesn't even include the energy needed to manufacture 6-7 additional feet of structure for every floor.

shakman

Jul 15, 2008, 4:58 PM

as I've said before, skyscraper economics 101 dictates that recessions/depressions are good times to build skyscrapers because labor is typically cheaper, materials are slightly cheaper (although labor is the governing cost)and because of the length of time it takes to build the building it will hopefully be completed as the economy is rebounding and needs buildings like this to accomodate that recovery (that is, expanded buisinesses, more residents, and tourists needing hotels, etc.).
the skyscrapers completed in Philadelphia in the late 80s/early 90s are testimony that boom times are bad times to build trophies like the mellon building and the bell atlantic building. they were occupied by their namesake companies but few others when they opened. when the local economy went sour in the early/mid 90s, those buildings did not fill up much (I don't have the exact occupancy numbers, just going by my recollection).

I can where you are coming from on this, but I would have to disagree with you about the materials and labor costs being slightly cheaper. I work on the PM side of the construction industry and the both of these are definitely not cheaper during this downturn...

Late1

Jul 15, 2008, 7:31 PM

Okay, so you save energy on lighting during daylight hours, but how do you heat it? Are there ceiling fans to keep the heat from being 10 feet above your head?
It seems to me that more energy will be spent pushing air around than would be needed for lighting. How is overall energy use lower?

That doesn't even include the energy needed to manufacture 6-7 additional feet of structure for every floor.
My (unprofessional) understanding is that heating isn't so much an issue, all things considered. The building generates loads of heat on its own, and is basically a greenhouse with all that glass. Yes, in the coldest weather you could have an issue with the heat rising to the ceiling, but for the majority of the year, your effort is going to be trying to keep the interior cool, not warm. That's where the high ceilings help out (in addition to letting more light in) - the hot air rises above head-level so that the occupants don't have to run the a/c so much.

theWatusi

Jul 15, 2008, 11:13 PM

News report (with video) from Action News on today's meeting.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6266186

Fcking nimbys

cubanChris

Jul 15, 2008, 11:33 PM

Their rendering seem woefully wrong to anyone else?

http://www.cfernandez.net/junkImg/Picture%201.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/Ninjawho/acc4.jpg

Otherwise, what a bunch of whiners.

theWatusi

Jul 15, 2008, 11:36 PM

Yeah I guess the building is too tall to fit on their stock skyline photo. :P

Don098

Jul 15, 2008, 11:51 PM

Vince Fumo can roll over and die. Good luck trying to fight it from jail, ass!&*#. NIMBYS.....grrrr....God, these Philadelphians NEED TO GET OUT AND SEE THE WORLD! Good thing someone with just a little bit more leverage, Mr. Nutter, is on board lol.

Philadelcago

Jul 16, 2008, 12:05 AM

More coverage on Fox:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=6989234&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

My favorite quote, from Annette Glazer of the LSNA: "We don't need another huge monster" -- yeah that scary huge monster that would bring so many scary jobs and scary parks and scary public amenities. It's frightening, let me tell you.

The only positive note, was that at least it seemed that all of those that were opposed to the development will either be in jail (Fumo) or have passed away (the rest of the opposers) by the time this starts getting more serious. Funny that the one guy interviewed who was in favor of the project was the only one under 80.

Ninjawho

Jul 16, 2008, 12:25 AM

What a load of horse crap...

Seriously, Fumo saying he's going to fight "this monstrosity" and the other whiners interviewed, has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard/seen. Are these people on crack? ANY BUILDING LARGER THAN STERLING IS GOING TO BLOCK THE FRICK'N VIEWS YOU RETARDS. So we can only have a building smaller than the commie block on that lot...

I have an idea...how about make it into a park. I'm sure they'll love their new neighbors, the homeless and drug addicted that will call that park home. Just like they do Love Park and Logan Circle...

HOW CAN YOU ARGUE AGAINST A PARK PEOPLE!!!! THAT'S WAY BETTER THAN ACC!!!

Don098

Jul 16, 2008, 12:53 AM

Did anyone actually attend the meeting that can provide any type of minutes outside of the sensationalist news coverage going for the story? I'm still upset that I couldn't attend, and I'd like to hear how the people that actually have power received the presentation/what was actually presented, i.e. the planning commission.

Swinefeld

Jul 16, 2008, 1:05 AM

I went to today's PPC meeting. The biggest problem was the old folks from Kennedy House showed up in force, now doubt bussed in by KH's anti-tower president. There were so many old farts at that meeting you'd thought they were handing out free Depends underwear. Because of them, that the meeting was standing room only and very difficult to get in. But fortunately there were enough people on the pro-tower side to offset the blue hairs from Kennedy House. The basis of the meeting was to address concerns from the locals and to discuss the zoning variance needed to change that plot of land from C4 (150 feet) to C5.

And then Vince Fumo showed up. Like a ghostly specter of Philadelphia politics past. I'm sooooooo glad his time is at an end. Vince Fumo's pay-to-play, strong-arming, back room dealing, shady politics is what is now holding Philadelphia back. He is the old way. His is the way that Mike Nutter swore to wipe out. One can only hope he fades quietly into the... jail cell. When he strolled into the room, the blue hair's faces brightened. I have to tell you, I'm glad he's on the other guy's side. Soon he will be part of Philadelphia's political past and completely irrelevant.

As for the media, they seemed very interested in interviewing the NIMBY side while ignoring the pro-development side. I guess that makes for a better news story.

The testimonials (about 20 in all) were pretty evenly split between the pro and anti side with a few neutrals. Even though there was to be no applause the anti side (blue hairs) did clap after several testimonials. How juvenile.

The overall presentation was very professional and ran somewhat long (it was over 40 minutes longer than anticipated). I left the meeting feeling somewhat optimistic about the ACC Tower's future. I hope I'm right. Next meeting is in September.

Pictures tomorrow!

Late1

Jul 16, 2008, 1:11 AM

TechTalkGuy

Jul 16, 2008, 1:26 AM

So basically, the media did its usual sh!t job of covering the story.

Same thing happened years ago against Lewis Epstein's rallies against the Freedom Tower (he dubbed it as the "Fraud 'em Tower").

I used to attend his rallies for taller skyscrapers to replace the twin towers, but when the plans for the Freedom Tower added additional super towers to the site, I decided to go support the future.

Let us hope that the future for the Philly skyline looks up! :yes:

Swinefeld

Jul 16, 2008, 1:28 AM

^Yeah, me too. The Fox29 article says, "An overflow crowd spilled into the hallway outside the hearing room, shouting down the few residents who favor the project."

Is that really how it was?

edit: thanks for answering that, Swinefeld. So basically, the media did its usual sh!t job of covering the story.
Werd. Bruce Gordon asked me why I was opposed to the tower. I said, "sorry, but I'm not against it, I'm for it." He chuckled and said, "don't be sorry." to which I replied, "well, I'm not sorry at all."

As for the overflow crowd, yes, that was true. There were several agenda items before they got to the sticky issue of the ACC Tower's zoning, traffic, and quality-of-life impact. I'd say it took about half an hour to get through items 1 through 6 to get to the ACC Tower discussion. Once the ACC Tower came up, they threw open the doors and the overflow crowd crammed in. I was part of the overflow crowd, waiting in a hot hallway, not knowing if or when I would get in. Needless to say, I'm glad I waited. I even got a seat eventually.

And NO ONE shouted down anyone at the meeting or in the hallway. That part is pure crap.

It's interesting how this tower is pitting Old Philadelphia with the new breed of Philadelphian. The average age of the anti-tower people had to be 70. That coupled with the fact that their hero is the indicted (139 counts!) Vince Fumo, clearly this is the past that we can do without.

SJPhillyBoy

Jul 16, 2008, 1:38 AM

Swinefeld is in the Fox video!

I really do not understand the opposition to this project. This project is unbelievable. Fumo is so out of touch, thank goodness he will be gone soon. I think his health issues have impacted his common sense. These people cannot even comprehend the positive impact such a development WILL have, nor do thay have any preception of the city's future and what is benefical to that future.

SJPhillyBoy

Jul 16, 2008, 1:43 AM

This building is seriously unbelievable in every way, shape and form. Look at these many excellent renderings...

http://lsn4acc.com/Renderings.php

SJPhillyBoy

Jul 16, 2008, 1:51 AM

What a complete horse's arse?!?

http://www.kyw1060.com/Fumo-Speaks-Against-Center-City---Super-Scraper--/2603033

Even KYW is only covering one side of the story. The media is terribly biased. How about some quality, unbiased news?

TechTalkGuy

Jul 16, 2008, 1:52 AM

This building is seriously unbelievable in every way, shape and form. Look at these many excellent renderings...

http://lsn4acc.com/Renderings.php

Excellent !!

I would love to work in that building! :tup:

Ninjawho

Jul 16, 2008, 2:00 AM

Just stop. SJPhillBoy. Stop with your silly nonsense. Those renderings of an incredible pedestrian to building front experience are mere fabrication made by the devil himself! Meant to deceive innocent blue hairs into believnyg this is a beneficial proposal for our city.

Just make it a park already! or better yet! an asphalt park! Also known as a parking lot! We wouldn't even have to do any work to make that happen! It's already there!

skyscraper

Jul 16, 2008, 2:49 AM

I can where you are coming from on this, but I would have to disagree with you about the materials and labor costs being slightly cheaper. I work on the PM side of the construction industry and the both of these are definitely not cheaper during this downturn...

not yet, the downturn is still pretty fresh. wait until it drags on a few more quarters.

Don098

Jul 16, 2008, 3:10 AM

Now that the initial excitement has died down, looking at the renderings over and over is starting make me get bored with the design. Now don't get me wrong, I think the skeleton of the design is tremendous, but I'm not crazy about the 1) protruding lines along the window edges from floor to floor 2) the color paneling on the inside of the hotel and retail portion, and 3) the spire which is slowly starting to bug me. So I'm hoping that while this fight continues, that perhaps a redesign comes along...but I'm getting really picky. This would still become the crown jewel of Philadelphia either way...but I can't help but look at the proposals for other skyscrapers around the world and feel a little bit jipped on the design side for a building of this height and stature. Does anyone else quietly feel this way?

We Got Five

Jul 16, 2008, 3:25 AM

Are you kidding me with this coverage. I did not expect this...

Talk about a rally killer. I seriously thought the media would get behind this project.

Clarke's comment scared me...

"Clarke told Fox29 News late Tuesday afternoon that he is generally supportive of The American Commerce Center but wants lots of public input and may want the design of the project tweaked, perhaps scaled back a bit."

Fumo's comment will cost me sleep...I guess he wants us to remain a tier 2 or tier 3 city forever.

"It is time for us to embrace our identity, celebrate our stature as one of America's special places to live or work, and end this silly game of believing that we can be better than New York or Chicago if only we had taller buildings than they have. We don't need to play that game."

Don098

Jul 16, 2008, 3:58 AM

If the negativity is hurting your eyes and ears, Phillyskyline has a tremendous article about the progression of Philly's skyline culminating with an ACC feature to soothe them.

Philadelcago

Jul 16, 2008, 4:06 AM

This should keep me busy for a little while... Plan Philly posted an hour long video and lengthy article about the commission meeting:

http://www.planphilly.com/node/3532

logansquare

Jul 16, 2008, 4:20 AM

Don098

Jul 16, 2008, 4:34 AM

Guys and gals,

Clarke and Fumo are cut out of the same mold. Clarke will go whichever way the wind (or money or votes) is blowing... He must be feeling terribly conflicted. new donor source and voting source (ACC) vs. Kennedy House votes

Both are simply responding to the vocal (well-organized, very motivated) minority in the Kennedy House, as Philadelphia politicians have done for years and years.

The ideal solution is exactly what lsn4acc has done. Supporters need to get behind this and continue to contact the mayors office, the Planning Commission, Clarke's office, and Farnese's office. They need to hear that there are plenty of supporters both in the neighborhood and throughout the city and region.

So as I'm watching this never-ending All-Star game (not like it matters to the Phils if the NL wins the world series home-field advantage because they aren't making it out of the first round with this crappy pitching) and keeping up with the discussion...what if PhillySkyline, PlanPhilly, DAG, lsn4acc, and say Penn Praxis got together to organize a highly orchestrated, well-educated avalanche of thoughtful, heavily researched letters and petitions to the PPC, Clarke, et. al. and load every meeting from here on out? That kind of support would drown out the Kennedy House residents, and show that if Philly wants to compete in the real world, they're going to need us younger, more fresh and forward-thinking generations to stay alive and relevant. If we're going to become America's Next Great City, this kind of development is a mandatory pre-requisite.

P.S. If Fumo is going to try to pull another stunt like today, I think it would be smart to have The Nut behind curtain number 2...what is Ed Rendell's stance on this btw?

BuildItUp

Jul 16, 2008, 5:32 AM

as I've said before, skyscraper economics 101 dictates that recessions/depressions are good times to build skyscrapers because labor is typically cheaper, materials are slightly cheaper (although labor is the governing cost)and because of the length of time it takes to build the building it will hopefully be completed as the economy is rebounding and needs buildings like this to accomodate that recovery (that is, expanded buisinesses, more residents, and tourists needing hotels, etc.).
the skyscrapers completed in Philadelphia in the late 80s/early 90s are testimony that boom times are bad times to build trophies like the mellon building and the bell atlantic building. they were occupied by their namesake companies but few others when they opened. when the local economy went sour in the early/mid 90s, those buildings did not fill up much (I don't have the exact occupancy numbers, just going by my recollection).

I would agree with your skyscraper economics 101 in a traditional sense. However, if you factor in the building boom and demands in Middle East and Asia, the price of materials are actually increasing instead of slightly decreasing. In addition, the cost of shipping materials is not coming down anytime soon, plus the weakness of the dollar means importing foreign materials will actually cost more not less. Hopefully, the credit crisis will end soon but unfortunately I think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. This proposal has a lot of challenges ahead of them, but I do hope and wish it gets built.

tranceclubbinphilly

Jul 16, 2008, 7:23 AM

"It is time for us to embrace our identity, celebrate our stature as one of America's special places to live or work, and end this silly game of believing that we can be better than New York or Chicago if only we had taller buildings than they have. We don't need to play that game."

This should really bug us. If you simply look at history, we (Philadelphia) were once the greatest city in this country. From Wikipedia: "However Philadelphia was still the largest city in the United States and a financial and cultural center. New York City soon surpassed Philadelphia in population, but construction of roads, canals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal), and railroads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad) helped turn Philadelphia into the United States' first major industrial city." Its people with Fumos attitude that can be partly to blame for why our city is not on the same scale as Chicago and NY. I equate this to being 3rd in a race for better jobs and over all better quality of life and just giving up, after all its ok to work at McDonalds forever right...

PhillyRising

Jul 16, 2008, 10:30 AM

What is Fumo afraid of...that the tower will cast shadows on his precious mansion that he can't get rid of in Fairmount?

Fumo will be gone soon and will have no say in the matter.

If I were mayor, I would have told the bluehairs in the Sterling and Kennedy House that it was their buildings that are offensive and would try to have them condemned. I hate those buildings.

We Got Five

Jul 16, 2008, 11:57 AM

But talk is cheap -

"Fool's gold," "ridiculous," "atrocity," said state Sen. Vince Fumo, who announced that Gov. Rendell would help him smother the proposal by denying developers tax breaks and state financial aid."

I am in no way a Rendell fan, but I find it extremely hard to believe he doesn't support this project. Especially since he apparently supports River City.

theWatusi

Jul 16, 2008, 12:03 PM

Direct links to the presentation video:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1670076502/bclid1659850472/bctid1670074594

And the public comment:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1670076506/bclid1659879585/bctid1670053642

We Got Five

Jul 16, 2008, 12:20 PM

KillerIman

Jul 16, 2008, 3:08 PM

so that criminal wants to single-handedly kill this project. unbelievable.

theWatusi

Jul 16, 2008, 4:05 PM

Rendell has said that anything under 500ft (for this site) would not get the tax breaks.

Fumo is Fullo shitto

Don098

Jul 16, 2008, 5:16 PM

Whatever anyone does regarding the American Commerce Center, DO NOT write to Vince Fumo and plea with him. Doing this will lend credibility to his senial, delusional mind and feed his power-hungry, corrupt appetite. He is the type of bully that will only become emboldened with strong reactions from his enemies, so do not play his game and validate the stunt he pulled yesterday. He is in F-all mode because he knows he's going down in flames. Pleading with him will backfire and be counter-productive to this process. We will be playing right into his hands.

TechTalkGuy

Jul 16, 2008, 5:55 PM

It's not too late to add additional floors to accommodate a restaurant and observation deck.

Swinefeld

Jul 16, 2008, 6:22 PM

Vince Fumo is a toothless tiger, and a brainless one too if you ask me. He is all bark and no bite. Nutter already expressed an interest in getting this built and his little schpiel was nothing more than placating the blue hairs. Let's not underestimate them though. They may be old but they are organized and surprisingly energetic. Plus they have lots of free time on their hands.

I promised pictures so....

This was the hot, crowded hallway which I had to wait in before they finally threw open the doors. If it weren't for the Kennedy House people crowding the meeting, there would have been ample seating.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCMeeting_01.jpg

Finally inside.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCMeeting_02.jpg

The ghostly specter of Fumo.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCMeeting_03.jpg

"I'm not opposed to tall buildings." My ass! Your jail cell is waiting.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCMeeting_04.jpg

The presentation.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCMeeting_05.jpg

One of the many testimonials.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCMeeting_06.jpg

Finally, the model. By the way, what's the deal with that new Poland Springs Tower. ;)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCMeeting_07.jpg

And now some new renderings that were part of the presentation.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_01_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_02_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_03_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_04_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_05_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_06_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_07_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_08_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_09_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_10_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_11_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_12_sm.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_13_sm.jpg

Building Summary:
Office Space: 1.37 million s.f.
Hotel Rooms: 327
Retail Above Grade: .26 million s.f.
Retail Below Grade: .04 million s.f.

Public Space: Exceeds 30% of Net Lot Area
-------------------------------------------------------------
Features of Public Benefits:
1. Active retail space, located at grade, below grade and above grade.

2. A minimum of 30% public space that meets the current requirements of the Zoning Code as well as additional public spaces located at multiple levels of the building above grade.

3. New direct connections to the public transit concourse and an extension of the concourse, including connections into the building as well as vertical integration of the concourse to 18th Street, through the site and to 19th Street.

4. Public museum and/or gallery space (not for profit) including an open sculpture garden.

5. Public restrooms.

6. Enclosed, off-street loading.

7. Parking spaces located below grade.

8. Green building design strategies to attain a LEED Gold Certification.

Sorry, but this building should be a no-brainer.

SJPhillyBoy

Jul 16, 2008, 6:46 PM

Excellent post Swinefeld. The best one in this thread so far! Much of this should be in the first post of this thread.

UCityPhila

Jul 16, 2008, 6:49 PM

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_02_sm.jpg

I WANT IT NOW! :boogy:

Don098

Jul 16, 2008, 6:51 PM

:previous: Agreed...round of applause for Swinefeld!:cheers:
:notacrook: :worship: :banana: :tup: :D

BuildItUp

Jul 16, 2008, 6:55 PM

How can anyone with the right state of mind and pro-Philadelphia/pro-progress oppose this magnificent proposal. Boston is begging for a thousand footers and we have idiotic scums like Fumo opposing it. Anyway, thank you for sharing the updates.

bryson662001

Jul 16, 2008, 7:17 PM

:previous: Agreed...round of applause for Swinefeldand The American Swinefeld Center......:banana: :jester: :tup:

tua21506

Jul 16, 2008, 7:52 PM

I wounder how much it would cost to buy Kennedy House and evict all of the loonies who don't see how this project will benefit the region? Heck it wouldn't be to bad of a venture..just convert it into class B office space lol....On another note I just don't get how they think this will create a huge traffic bottle neck...I mean look at comcast, how much more traffic did it bring? If anything, the traffic in that area is usually one of the lightest in volume in center city...lol

theWatusi

Jul 16, 2008, 8:40 PM

Thanks for the hard work swiney.

Was that you on the Fox video?

TechTalkGuy

Jul 16, 2008, 9:07 PM

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/ACC%20Tower/ACCTower_05_sm.jpg

Excellent!!

I think it looks better without the spire.

In fact, I wouldn't mind if they simply replaced the spire with additional floors.

A nice restaurant along with a rooftop observation deck would be a good replacement for the spire. :yes:

Don098

Jul 16, 2008, 9:55 PM

Lantern...did I read that correctly?! Looks like we have our lighting scheme...

Swinefeld

Jul 17, 2008, 12:25 AM

Thanks for the hard work swiney.

Was that you on the Fox video?
That was me chewing gum in class. How classy. :slob:

GarCastle

Jul 17, 2008, 2:29 AM

Hmm not to sound morbid but... heh. I hope they disregard the testimonies of anyone that could very well be passed away (or in jail) by the time the project would even be done.

Phillydude

Jul 17, 2008, 4:24 AM

I don't usually post on here anymore -- I pretty much don't have the time to keep up with things but every so often I check. In fact, until I heard about this on KYW I hadn't been here in about 6 or 7 months. But I have to give my point of view and the one thing I like to do most is beat up on spires and glass curtains.

When I first saw the rendering I posted "more glass, more spires, ugh ugh ugh" or words to that effect. Someone said "show us your model." I certainly can't do that but its easy to visualize -- less glass, no spire. I generally hate glass curtain buildings and spires, especially when they are stuck on in semi-ornamental fashion. I don't like the spire on 1 Liberty at all but I like it better than the one on ACC. It just seems like a phony attempt to make it 1500 feet when just stopping at 1210 with some nice, modest setbacks would do the trick.

However, a reworking of the design might decrease (or increase the height). And decreasing the height isn't all that bad. I'm a firm believer in bigger is not always better. 2 Logan Square is a wonderful building at only 435 feet. I don't think I would change it in any way, including the height. But if they just redesigned the top of this thing I might be okay with the glass curtain. Even if they cut it to 1100 or 1150. The base is pretty sweet for the most part and I don't think it would work with anything but glass. So now I'm on the fence. I dunno. But I do know one thing -- its really not nice to beat up on old people like some folks were doing. We'll all be old soon and they've earned the right to their opinion.

pentopaper50

Jul 17, 2008, 5:40 AM

That was me chewing gum in class. How classy. :slob:

Swinefeld -- if you lead the pro-ACC movement, I and others will follow. We need a leader to help us mobilize against the naysayers!!!

Capsule F

Jul 17, 2008, 5:54 AM

I'm going to start doing whatever I can do to make sure this happens and the Kennedy house rejects fail.

bucks native

Jul 17, 2008, 7:20 AM

I recall reading that the spire will house transmission/reception hardware; so it's not simply an add-on. It will be functional and will generate income.

FlyersFan118

Jul 17, 2008, 12:32 PM

Great post, Swine. I don't put a lot of stock into Fumo's crap. The guy's an outgoing criminal who is so full of class, he thought it was a good idea to call Jubelirer a faggot on the Senate floor. This is typical of him. The people from the Kennedy house can't possibly hold much weight. You can't oppose building a highrise in the heart of the city's business district, you just can't. This isn't like the parkway, or Northern Liberties, or the waterfront. This is building a highrise in an area where highrises are to be built. This will be the signature tower that Comcast Center really is not. I mean, just thinking about all of the retail involved in this makes me that much more excited. Retail is something that is definitely SORELY missed in Philadelphia. Walking around Manhattan, every building has street level retail and plenty of it. Walk around the heart of center city...not so much. It's a shame.

I don't think we're looking at a hell of a lot of opposition here. Once again we're talking about a vocal minority. The only problem I could see is if Ed Rendell is really that opposed to this, and I can't imagine why he would be.

I don't really see how this building could do anything but good for this city. If you support the progress of Philadelphia, you have to support this project; I don't see any gray area in between.

skyscraper

Jul 17, 2008, 12:49 PM

PhillyRising

Jul 17, 2008, 2:23 PM

That was me chewing gum in class. How classy. :slob:

You should have stuck it Fumo's hair.

PhillyRising

Jul 17, 2008, 2:28 PM

But I do know one thing -- its really not nice to beat up on old people like some folks were doing. We'll all be old soon and they've earned the right to their opinion.

They are being stupid. They live in the Central Business District. They are trying to block a tower. Towers belong in the Central Business District. They live in two of the most offensive and hideous building in Center City. If they don't want to be living among other towers nearby, then they should move to Ann's Choice in Bucks County.

You are right in saying that they have a right to their opinion. We have the right to tell them they aren't making any sense.

Swinefeld

Jul 17, 2008, 2:33 PM

I'm having a little trouble getting a handle on fumo's opposition. he is a state senator, not a city council member, so he does not have any say in the zoning. does he oppose the building altogether or does he just oppose the KOZ and other tax incentives? if he opposes the building altogether, what recourse does he really have? what can he do to stop it?
Honestly, very little. He's resigning soon anyway, but as a state senator he can control any state tax breaks that the building might have received and he can use his position to do some arm twisting with the mayor, governor and councilman Clarke. All the arguments I've heard from Fumo, et al sound like they were cribbed word-for-word from every other NIMBY group in the city. And yes, this is a NIMBY situation. Sorry if that acronym is overused but it fits so well here. Fumo himself said he didn't oppose that building per se, just at that location. What other proof do you need? He also claims it's half a block from Comcast Center yet it's smack in the middle of Logan Square. Huh? How can it be both? Mind boggling.

Lecom

Jul 18, 2008, 4:59 PM

*joins applause for Swinefeld*

andydie

Jul 18, 2008, 11:22 PM

this looks like a cool tower for Philly. Hope it gets built. Also great work Swinefeld for covering the hearing:tup:

Don098

Jul 19, 2008, 4:22 AM

This should keep me busy for a little while... Plan Philly posted an hour long video and lengthy article about the commission meeting:

http://www.planphilly.com/node/3532

I can't help but wonder if this building would have been more well-received by the residents at Symphony House and Perlman had the architects been better, more engaging speakers/presenters that could communicate the positives more effectively. We really didn't get someone that can speak well publicly until the young Asian man spoke at the end. To be honest, it's disturbing that an international architecture firm would give such a freshman-college-level type of presentation to a major city planning commission. For example, slides with entire sentences and paragraphs on them being read aloud by the presenters between "uhs" and "ums" is amateurish, and it breaks the most fundamental rules of public speaking. If you have ever taken a speech communication course, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Peter Kelson was the only other somewhat natural speaker.

By starting off the meeting with the hottest issue - the scale of the building - without any type of lead-in immediately turns people off that are not already in favor. I know exactly what Mr. Kohn was trying to do, but it didn't work in my opinion. Instead of identifying with his audience, he came off as presumptuous about their opinions. You make your most difficult appeals at the end once you've lured your audience in through a number of key devices. These people need to learn how to make persuasive arguments, because that's the only way they're going to have a fighting chance to win over the opposition. This meeting could have been colored in a completely different light had they found people to present this well. Instead, the entire thing was colored negatively by Fumo. If they had an engaging speaker, I can tell you right now that Fumo face wouldn't have been the only thing plastered all over the news, and coverage might have been more balanced. I can guarantee that the only things those Symphony house residents remember from that meeting are the image of the building on the skyline, and Fumo's tirade. The meeting failed what it intended to do from the architect and developer's point of view, which was to break misconceptions and hopefully win over support, and I'm discouraged by that.

bucks native

Jul 19, 2008, 8:36 AM

Fumo is now on his attorney-managed PR tour, to change his public image to that of a civic-minded, regular kinda' guy. That stuff works. Remember how Paris Hilton carried a Bible to jail? That certainly wasn't her idea and it did change perceptions - at least until she got out. Another ploy for rich guys that actually go to jail is to "develop" prostate cancer a la Michael Milken, who is now out, healthy and spending the money he went to jail for.

But don't get any criminal ideas - poor health and public sympathy only work when you've got high-priced lawyers. Oh! And don't kill anyone, unless you can afford OJ's lawyers: Note the recent case of the Manson follower who's "dying" but didn't get out.