PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS

[KillerIman]

wow! go GSK! that would be killer :tup:

[Urban Jungle]

I believe that the tower WILL get built, it's only a question of when the economy gets better. Right now the Dow Jones is in five digits, so it's a little indication that things are getting better than from last year, but you still need to take into account the unemployment rate in America, as well as in Phila, which might be slightly higher than the national average. If the building doesn't get approved this year. I'm hoping at least for next year, since it's supposed to take two years for the tower to get completed from start to finish.

The DOW above 10,000 really isn't all that significant. There was a huge drop in march and the current rally is merely a rebound of the lows. There is nothing driving up the prices of stocks if you look at some of these companies actual balance sheets. Its all cost cutting, like layoffs. How is the market above 10,000 when unemployement is about 10%. Companies can't produce when they have no employees. The market will dropoff in the long run. Or it will just experience extreme volatility for awhile like it has been. Christmas should drive up prices though for people looking to invest in decemeber and pullout in January.

On that note this is very good news to hear about the second quarter start date. I wouldn't put to much into it considering many analysts are claiming the market will drop off again, some are even calling for another stage of frozen credit. God willing this building gets built soon it would be a very welcomed addition to the skyline. Go GSK!!!

[We Got Five]

Let's not jump the gun here gang...this is news, yes, but in my opinion there is no way this building is getting started next year.

[McBane]

GSK? Did I miss something here?

[Capsule F]

High-rise hopeful

I asked Hill's Richter about his firm's proposed American Commerce Center tower, which would pass Comcast to be the tallest in Philadelphia, if it's built.

"Glaxo [GlaxoSmithKline] is still our most likely lead tenant, and I think we're moving closer to a deal with them," he told me. "My guess is we'll have the project moving forward in the second quarter of 2010." Though, he added, it takes time to get commitments from an "anchor tenant" whose existing leases won't expire for a few years.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20091118_PhillyDeals__Builder_with_towering_local_profile_sold.html

[We Got Five]

McBane,

GSK has been a rumored tenant for more than a year now. Here's an article dated last year hinting that they are in play.

Possible Glaxo move might be a boon for tower project
Philadelphia Business Journal - by Natalie Kostelni Staff Writer

http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2008/10/06/story14.html

[Ninjawho]

Yea but you have to remember that it is kinda a big deal that he's mentiong GSK tho. Cause I think it kinda means one of two things:

1. If this whole project is a fluke and this is just an elaborate scheme to flip the property than throwing around names of possible tenants would work in their favor.

2. If the project is legitimate, (which we all seem to be agreed that it is), than mentioning GSK by name would be risky unless he really felt it was going somewhere. Its not really sound business practice to throw around names when nothings going to happen. Of course, he could be mentioning GSK as leverage against another company, but again if GSK wasn't really in play they could just come out and say, "you're crazy man."

[McBane]

I know GSK has been rumored for years but the sudden bursts of enthusiasm for GSK seemed out of the blue...until I read the JD article that Capsule posted. Thanks.

[Don098]

Does anyone think that the recent Comcast aquisition of NBC Universal adds to the pool of potential tenants? There has been some speculation that Comcast thought about scrapping II Penn Plaza for some space in the ACC...it sure would be a sexy building, especially one from which they could broadcast anything if they ever wanted to...

[mrskyline]

Does anyone think that the recent Comcast aquisition of NBC Universal adds to the pool of potential tenants? There has been some speculation that Comcast thought about scrapping II Penn Plaza for some space in the ACC...it sure would be a sexy building, especially one from which they could broadcast anything if they ever wanted to...

That Comcast-NBC deal hasn't happened yet and there are many media watchdog groups that are fighting to make sure it is not allowed to happen. Believe me, nobody wants to see this building rise on the Philly skyline more than I do, but I think the implications of this deal are really troubling. If this deal goes through it will mean higher prices, more monopoly and a handful of corporate voices drowning out what should be a free press.

[Zapatan]

From SkyscraperCity

Well the deal went through. Local news this morning in Philly is saying that there is talk Comcast might move most of the management to Philly along with some possible production. They further stated that analysts are saying that Comcast could potentially move everything to Philly, and "do what Ted Turner did with CNN and Atlanta for Philly".

Now what the relation to the American Commerce Center has to do with it has yet to be seen. But as I wrote a few posts above, maybe the builders could lure Comcast in.....

[pwp]

So this is quoting a user named Grk101 from SkyscraperCity.com. Although he seems somewhat knowledgeable of the situation given a few of the posts I read, it runs counter to everything I've heard from local news on the subject. I hope this guy cites a source because it's not fair to get my hopes up like this!

I'd love to see their operations move here and occupy the ACC but realistically, the costs involve, loss and/or relocation of laborforce, time, etc make this virtually unrealistic.

[We Got Five]

"Local news this morning in Philly is saying that there is talk Comcast might move most of the management to Philly along with some possible production."

Local News? Really...where?

[Ninjawho]

Wall Street Journal has a little perspective on it. At the very least, and still quit important we get some worldwide spotlight shown on us..


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091203-713045.html

[cubanChris]

Any chance on a more thorough breakdown of that article? Can only read the first two paragraphs :(

[scalziand]

^^Just do a search for the article. A bunch of other services picked up that story too. Heck, it's not even a Wall Street Journal article in the first place.

Here's one:http://www.smartmoney.com/news/on/?story=ON-20091203-000674

[Urban Jungle]

Without any concrete sources from the post on Skyscapercity I will be the pessimist and not believe it until I see it.

Along with the rest of you hear I haven't seen any "local news" state that comcast will be moving a large amount of operations to philadelphia. As I stated in PhillyVIII New York is a media town with major operations already in existance. Maybe it will cost less in the long run to move operations to philadelphia due to low operating costs but how much will it cost in the short run to move all those operations here? Im guessing alot. It will be up to comcasts corporate financiers to decide on whether the juice is worth the squeeze. I wouldn't rule it out but we won't hear anything about it until comcast has a full financial analysis and idea of the implications of moving anything out of NY.

[NYguy]

So this is quoting a user named Grk101 from SkyscraperCity.com. Although he seems somewhat knowledgeable of the situation given a few of the posts I read, it runs counter to everything I've heard from local news on the subject. I hope this guy cites a source because it's not fair to get my hopes up like this!

I'd love to see their operations move here and occupy the ACC but realistically, the costs involve, loss and/or relocation of laborforce, time, etc make this virtually unrealistic.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/business/media/04nbc.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1259928287-dliarRYkfT1VV/kf1v5JqQ

G.E. Makes It Official: NBC Will Go to Comcast

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/12/03/business/03cnd-nbcspan/articleLarge.jpg
The Comcast Center, second from left, in Philadelphia on Thursday.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/12/03/business/media/04nbc-ready/popup.jpg
NBC’s headquarters will remain in New York, the companies said.

Jeff Zucker, the current head of NBC Universal, will stay on as chief executive and report to the chief operating officer of Comcast, Steve Burke. In a statement released by the companies Thursday morning, Mr. Zucker called the deal the “start of a new era” for NBC.

The deal could take up to 18 months to pass regulatory muster. Although Comcast is based in Philadelphia, NBC’s headquarters will remain in New York, the joint release said.


There could be a positive influence down the line, but I don't think anything directly related to operations.

[Plokoon11]

Sounds like great news!

[Zapatan]

Man this building really could get built, this is exciting!

[Urban Jungle]

In a perfect world NBC moves all operations to the new flagship headquarters american commerce center directly across parent company comcast. Philadelphia builds its media/tv/movie productions out of the new building. 5star hotel plans follow through for the tower to accomodate the frenzy.
In a perfect world....

I don't really like the name anymore.. Give it a stronger name, why is it a commerce center again? How about "The Keystone State Building"

[Don098]

In a perfect world NBC moves all operations to the new flagship headquarters american commerce center directly across parent company comcast. Philadelphia builds its media/tv/movie productions out of the new building. 5star hotel plans follow through for the tower to accomodate the frenzy.
In a perfect world....

I don't really like the name anymore.. Give it a stronger name, why is it a commerce center again? How about "The Keystone State Building"

I think you need to change it from "in a perfect world" to "in another dimension" lol. That will never happen. I agree about the name, I've always hated it. It's sort of a delusional name...it could only work in the financial capital of the country which would be NYC.

[Wheelingman04]

Damn, I hope that tower gets built. It would put Philly and the state of PA on another level.

[McBane]

any possible link between comcast and the ACC is totally ridiculous. comcast is very happy in their current HQ and, if additional space is needed, TWO PENN PLAZA can be built to accommodate the need.

instead of fantasizing about something will never happen (comcast spurring the development of ACC), how about we focus on the possiblity of TWO PENN PLAZA?

amazing how quickly people forget that TWO PENN PLAZA was designed specifically to accommodate future growth of comcast.

[Urban Jungle]

any possible link between comcast and the ACC is totally ridiculous. comcast is very happy in their current HQ and, if additional space is needed, TWO PENN PLAZA can be built to accommodate the need.

instead of fantasizing about something will never happen (comcast spurring the development of ACC), how about we focus on the possiblity of TWO PENN PLAZA?

amazing how quickly people forget that TWO PENN PLAZA was designed specifically to accommodate future growth of comcast.

Calm down buddy, obviously you don't understand the word speculation. But thank you for clarifying what most of us already know. Unfortunately this isn't a thread about comcast nor Two Penn Plaza.

[Don098]

any possible link between comcast and the ACC is totally ridiculous. comcast is very happy in their current HQ and, if additional space is needed, TWO PENN PLAZA can be built to accommodate the need.

instead of fantasizing about something will never happen (comcast spurring the development of ACC), how about we focus on the possiblity of TWO PENN PLAZA?

amazing how quickly people forget that TWO PENN PLAZA was designed specifically to accommodate future growth of comcast.

Whoa whoa whoa...so I guess this quote of mine from the last page "There has been some speculation that Comcast thought about scrapping II Penn Plaza for some space in the ACC..." It' pretty hard to say I forgot about II Penn Plaza when I referenced it by name...

Yea, a multi-billion dollar conglomerate that just inhereted a huge share of a national media network really has no chance of "spurring the development of ACC" and will "never happen". You should read up on some of the outcomes from other major deals of this magnitude and you'll see that in some cases it even turned cities around...

Would you RATHER have II Penn Plaza than the ACC, because based upon your response, it definitely sounds like that. I, for one, would MUCH rather see the ACC go up. That post was very puzzling, McBane...

[hammersklavier]

Personally, I would rather have both. There currently aren't any studios in the Comcast Center; Comcast's studios are in the Wachovia building on the Avenue of the Arts. II Penn would be a good place to stick studio space and the ACC new offices needed to support NBC...

[McBane]

both would be nice.

even better would be if they built 2 penn plaza higher than planned. sticking with philadelphia's "let's be as inconspicuous as possible" style of building, stern decided to make 2 penn plaza the same height as suburban station and other neighboring buildings (2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10 penn center), which all sit at about 300 ft.

hopefully, the NBC-universal deal gives comcast the need for more space at 2 penn plaza so that area can have some variety of building heights. right now the 975 foot tall CC surrounded by a bunch of towers that are all about 300 feet tall looks kinda lame.

p.s. why would any architect wand their building want to "blend in" with those hideous, squat penn center buildings?

p.s.s. yes, i understand that underground railroad tracks prevent the building of something really tall, but even 400 feet would allow 2 penn center to stand above its neighbors, distinguish itself from drab penn center, and provide the area some architectural variety.

[hammersklavier]

both would be nice.

even better would be if they built 2 penn plaza higher than planned. sticking with philadelphia's "let's be as inconspicuous as possible" style of building, stern decided to make 2 penn plaza the same height as suburban station and other neighboring buildings (2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10 penn center), which all sit at about 300 ft.

hopefully, the NBC-universal deal gives comcast the need for more space at 2 penn plaza so that area can have some variety of building heights. right now the 975 foot tall CC surrounded by a bunch of towers that are all about 300 feet tall looks kinda lame.

p.s. why would any architect wand their building want to "blend in" with those hideous, squat penn center buildings?

p.s.s. yes, i understand that underground railroad tracks prevent the building of something really tall, but even 400 feet would allow 2 penn center to stand above its neighbors, distinguish itself from drab penn center, and provide the area some architectural variety.
The original II Penn scheme was to have it feature an Art Deco façade similar to Suburban Station's (which is hardly hideous), thereby framing Comcast's post-Rohian proportions and style with that of a previous era. A very good plan and response to context, I thought. Now that Stern wants to look at it again, though, if it loses the Art Deco façade, then I'm with you, it only works at those proportions if it directly engages I Penn Center (i.e. the Suburban Station building).

Also, don't forget that the fourth tallest building (Mellon Bank Center) in the city is just across from II Penn, and that Comcast sits right next to BAT to the north as well.

[volguus zildrohar]

Just a thought,

I just saw a thread for a proposal for a new tower in Miami for Santander, one of the world's largest banks, which purchased Sovereign Bank recently. The proposal makes sense of course but what's the over/under on them as a potential tenant of ACC - particularly if they expand here in the US? Financial institutions tend to locate amongst themselves but if this city was able to to continue raising its international profile perhaps Philadelphia may become a place foreign companies look to domestically to make their presence known.

[Skintreesnail]

that would make sense, given Philadelphia's proximity to NYC and DC. Get TD Bank and Wells Fargo on board...

[We Got Five]

They already tried TD, no dice. Now Wells Fargo is an interesting name...

[hammersklavier]

Get Santander to anchor the ACC? That would be a great idea!

[bucks native]

re new leases:

January 15, 2010

Towers still towers over Market St.

Merged firm to renew lease at Centre Square

Philadelphia Business Journal - by Natalie Kostelni Staff Writer

source: http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2010/01/18/story2.html?ana=e_ph


Perhaps the biggest wild card will be GlaxoSmithKline, which has major operations in Center City. The company has a lease that expires in 2013 for about 650,000 square feet at One Franklin Plaza from HRPT Properties Trust. It leases another 220,000 square feet at Three Franklin Plaza from Liberty Property Trust, and that lease runs out in 2014.

GlaxoSmithKline’s decision has the potential to kick off a new downtown building. While the company could stay where it is at One and Three Franklin Plaza overlooking the Vine Street Expressway, it could seek 900,000 square feet of space. If it keeps all of that space in Center City and decides to move, the company would have to relocate into a building that has yet to be built. One office project on the drawing board is the American Commerce Center, a 2.2-million-square-foot proposal for 18th and Arch streets that would create the tallest building in Philadelphia. It would need at least two years of construction time to get out of the ground.

[pwp]

This is great news... keeping my fingers crossed. GSK was always on the list of potential anchors, hopefully they will work something out!

[We Got Five]

What's even more important is another big organization leasing up One and Three Franklin Plaza if GSK leaves for the ACC. Leases that expire in 2013 and 2014 will need to be locked in in the next 1-2 years...ACC construction would probably take 4 years to complete. The time is now.

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

Does anyone know, when construction will begin. Perhaps somebody asked that recently, I apologize.

[pwp]

Does anyone know, when construction will begin. Perhaps somebody asked that recently, I apologize.

As of now nothing is set in stone. I'm sure the initially projected date is not gonna happen at this point. Hopefully within 2 years?

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

As of now nothing is set in stone. I'm sure the initially projected date is not gonna happen at this point. Hopefully within 2 years?

What? In two years. Oh my god... Which completion year should we give now, the diagrams say 2012. But that´s not realistic.

[theWatusi]

Does anyone know, when construction will begin. Perhaps somebody asked that recently, I apologize.

Whenever they can land a tenant.

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

Whenever they can land a tenant.

I know, I read this on wikipedia, that there is currently no anchor tenant. Could someone change to completion year in the diagrams? 2012 is simply not realistic. I guess it won´t be finshed until 2014.

[Don098]

Does anyone think there might be a re-design? Didn't Comcast go through several versions while they waiting for funding, etc.? Does anyone think that could happen with the ACC?

[Rail>Auto]

I sure hope not.... unless its a slight moderation of the current version.

[shakman]

Does anyone think there might be a re-design? Didn't Comcast go through several versions while they waiting for funding, etc.? Does anyone think that could happen with the ACC?

There were some changes with Comcast. Before Comcast inked a deal, the proposed tower was much shorter and in addition, there would have been an even shorter, second highrise.

[hammersklavier]

There were some changes with Comcast. Before Comcast inked a deal, the proposed tower was much shorter and in addition, there would have been an even shorter, second highrise.
That second tower (2 Pennsylvania Plaza) is still part of the overall development plan. It was originally going to have a Deco-inspired façade reflecting the (also Deco-inspired) Mellon Bank Center and the real Deco 1 Penn Center (aka Suburban Station building). Apparently, Stern & Co. decided to have another look at plans for that structure back in 2008, and that's the last we've heard of it.

[volguus zildrohar]

1PP underwent several design changes. Some were shorter than what became Comcast Center, one was over 1,000 feet tall and 83 stories. I think ACC will undergo a change in program regardless of how well the economy rebounds - I actually believed that before the bottom fell out. I think the final product will still break 1,000 feet simply because I think the developers are serious about doing the project and would like to break that psychological barrier but it will be less lofty than the proposal as it sits now.

[wanderer34]

You know, I would've loved for this tower to have at least been in construction right now (that and another Phillies championship), but I guess neither happened. I hope it's still in the plans for the city. You can't just throw away those types of ideas and leave them to waste.

[Infernal_Elf]

indeed and that park 150 meters up in the air is just great

[SSBMEXPERT]

I don't want to give up on this prodject, but I feel pushed to. I know its just a building, but it is pretty depressing. To me this represented more than just an addition to the skyline, it showed that Philadelphia had potential, potential that I thought I could only dream about.

Not to say, that the city isn't great as is, but just to know that this city hasn't seen anything like this means something. Its like some kind of limitation, and I thought it would finally be lifted. Perhaps giving the city a new image in some ways other than hieght, maybe even placing in the ranks of the other major U.S. cities.

But I guess until something new (and good) finally comes up on this thing, I guess it will remain a dream. I wouldn't even mind if this was Philly last tower, as long as the limitation fades, and that hidden potential is exposed, thats all that matters to me right now.

That's what the American Commerce Center means to me. After all, "This Changes Everything." Or, at least it could... :shrug:

[We Got Five]

Companies need to ask themselves "why would I move my operations to Philadelphia?" When you look at our tax structure, poor business climate, etc...how attractive are we? I've argued for years that we're not competitive in this landscape. Until we're able to make Philadelphia a pro-business city, this right now is a pipe dream.

[wanderer34]

Companies need to ask themselves "why would I move my operations to Philadelphia?" When you look at our tax structure, poor business climate, etc...how attractive are we? I've argued for years that we're not competitive in this landscape. Until we're able to make Philadelphia a pro-business city, this right now is a pipe dream.

I'll agree, and that's the f'd up part about all of this. Nutter just doesn't seem to have any innovative ideas whatsoever, except maybe to add a "suar tax". HELL!!!! Just tax sugar, for all I care!!!! But this is really dissapointing, especially when Philly is supposed to be coming up (population, sports, etc.). A real dissapointment that this won't get built on time!!!!! :hell: :(

[hammersklavier]

Just be patient. Skyscrapers have long development cycles.

Granted, it won't be done in 2012, but that was a really optimistic prediction anyway.

Or would you want a rushed project that ran out of money halfway through, like the Waterview Tower in Chicago?

[Don098]

So aside from the old high taxes argument, which I think is oversimplifying the issue, what are the real obstacles at this point? There were tenants interested in this building before, but financing was the primary concern. Now that the economy has begun to turn around (for the big people people at least - certainly not for the little people) has credit thawed sufficiently or is it still next to impossible to get a loan? What's the state of material costs at this point? Has anyone been in touch with the developers or architects that might know of redesigns, etc.? Have their been any hearings on this building lately? What came of the traffic models? I think it's time for a serious update on this building. It's been too quiet.

[shakman]

Just be patient. Skyscrapers have long development cycles.

Granted, it won't be done in 2012, but that was a really optimistic prediction anyway.

Or would you want a rushed project that ran out of money halfway through, like the Waterview Tower in Chicago?

I could not agree with you more... things take time.

Philly has a lot to offer minus this tower (and a WS championship :D ). However I am just as eager to see this project through.

[justremember]

Even though I've been following this board for a few years, I still consider myself a novice when observing new development.

Am I correct in assuming that this building will very likely be built, even if it takes just a few more years than we first thought?

[philadelphiathrives]

Even though I've been following this board for a few years, I still consider myself a novice when observing new development.

Am I correct in assuming that this building will very likely be built, even if it takes just a few more years than we first thought?

I agree. These projects take time; remember it took 20 years to build that 1500 foot screwdriver in Shanghai. :D

The long term fundamentals of this project, as big as it is, are good. The vacancy rate of office space in Center City was 12% last year, which is relatively low for such a bad recession. The site is located in the heart of a very large and crowded business district, surrounded by many corporate headquarters and towers; it's within walking distance of what will be the world's largest museum district (which itself is undergoing several streetscape improvements); it's within walking distance of several of the country's most upscale neighborhoods; adjacent to one of the largest regional rail systems in the world; and a few blocks from the expanding PA Convention Center, the number one convention center in the world for medical conventions. Plus, the ACC will have several upscale stores, restaurants, and a movie theater, which adds to what Comcast Center has and all the fancy stores and restaurants of Rittenhouse Square. Obviously, I don't buy the "taxes are too high" argument. It's not what you pay; it's what you get in return. :cool:

So, I think this will be built. We just have to be patient. :D :cheers:

[Don098]

So I guess no one has heard anything about this project at all? Nothing in the Philadelphia Business Journal...no one has connections to the developers or architects, etc.? Nothing from city council, DAG, PlanPhilly? Has the credit market thawed yet? I'm still trying to find out what the principle impediment is at this point. Where are they stuck?

[volguus zildrohar]

Financing and securing a tenant, I would think. The economy is supposedly getting better and when it actually does this project, along with many others will probably get underway.

[We Got Five]

Securing a lead tenant is the biggest obstacle at this point. Unless they surprise us all and land someone outside the area, their putting their eggs in GSK's basket. GSK's lease expires in 2013/2014 and there has been little discussion on their situation in the last 6 months.

[uaarkson]

Why don't these threads get locked until real news rolls around? I'm sick of opening this with hopes of real developments only to be slapped across the face with yet another "WILL IT GET BUILD????"

[hammersklavier]

At least we're not as bad as the Chicagoites whining about their Mandarin Oriental. :P

Securing a lead tenant, I agree, but I'm not so sure it'll be GSK. I mean, GSK moved its U.S. HQ down to the Research Triangle not two years ago, and securing space in this building would just make that move look...stupid. (I mean, after all, this is exactly the type of building that should be a corporate or national HQ.)

My bet? They surprised us when they announced this thing. They'll surprise us again when they announce the lead tenant.

[We Got Five]

I would be astonished. When was the last time we recruited a major corporation to center city? Were we even involved with Towers Watson when they chose NYC for their corporate HQ despite having a huge presence here (for now anyway).

It might only take one major name to move here to make this thing happen.

[zuelas]

It apparently isn't the most viable (or attractive) proposal. Just let it die quietly....

[hammersklavier]

:previous: This is a statement I find hard to believe; as we've already noted, Comcast spent nearly a decade in its development cycle. It's not dead, not yet--wait until the market forces pick back up. And as for the aesthetics, feel free to disagree.

[phillyaggie]

I agree. These projects take time; remember it took 20 years to build that 1500 foot screwdriver in Shanghai. :D

The long term fundamentals of this project, as big as it is, are good. The vacancy rate of office space in Center City was 12% last year, which is relatively low for such a bad recession. The site is located in the heart of a very large and crowded business district, surrounded by many corporate headquarters and towers; it's within walking distance of what will be the world's largest museum district (which itself is undergoing several streetscape improvements); it's within walking distance of several of the country's most upscale neighborhoods; adjacent to one of the largest regional rail systems in the world; and a few blocks from the expanding PA Convention Center, the number one convention center in the world for medical conventions. Plus, the ACC will have several upscale stores, restaurants, and a movie theater, which adds to what Comcast Center has and all the fancy stores and restaurants of Rittenhouse Square. Obviously, I don't buy the "taxes are too high" argument. It's not what you pay; it's what you get in return. :cool:

So, I think this will be built. We just have to be patient. :D :cheers:


"world's largest museum district"? Really? I had not heard/read that attribute about the Center City area museums before...specifically, I'm assuming you're talking about the museums on the Parkway...?

nothing wrong in pumping a little sunshine in Philly threads to relieve pressure from a lot of negadelphianism to be read everyday on philly.com and other places...

[philadelphiathrives]

"world's largest museum district"? Really? I had not heard/read that attribute about the Center City area museums before...specifically, I'm assuming you're talking about the museums on the Parkway...?

nothing wrong in pumping a little sunshine in Philly threads to relieve pressure from a lot of negadelphianism to be read everyday on philly.com and other places...

Actually, I've heard that the Parkway is likely the world's largest museum district and certainly would be with the Barnes, that's one of the many things that makes it so special. :D

Also, your right about the negativity on philly.com, and not just the comments. :yuck: I think that's why the Inquirer and Daily News are going out of business, and deserve too.

[pwp]

Actually, I've heard that the Parkway is likely the world's largest museum district and certainly would be with the Barnes, that's one of the many things that makes it so special. :D

Also, your right about the negativity on philly.com, and not just the comments. :yuck: I think that's why the Inquirer and Daily News are going out of business, and deserve too.

I believe there is some sort of Holocaust memorial/museum planned for the Parkway too. Just another notch on the world's largest museum district's belt :D

[thenbagis]

yeah this definitely going off topic... But I'd tend to think that the Mall in DC with all the Smithsonians is tad bigger than our "museum district"

[brian.odonnell20]

For anybody wondering about the status of ACC, these are the obstacles it needs to overcome for a legitimate groundbreaking date and construction slot:

As we all well know, the biggest obstacle remaining for the new tower is landing a big anchor tenant. Apparently, Hill Real Estate had been trying for about a year and a half now to land one and since the summer of 2009 has lined up a few viable prospects: Glaxo Kline Smith, TD Bank, Janney Montgomery Scott, Marsh McClellon, and KPMG. And I know what your thinking.. this is old news and is what everyone has been saying on the forum for more than two years now. But as ive watched this thread continue on and on people have only been telling you problems, not why the problems are there. So, to finally clear things up once and for all, the only problem the tower's progress has right now is an anchor tenant, not funding. The funding for the project has been lined up and secure since day one of the proposal.. thats why this didn't end up like the spire. Anyways, the project cannot yet land an anchor tenant because companies are reluctant to do so in this economic climate. For instance, GSK has been considering moving hqs to philly since the proposal, but has not yet been guaranteed things and still there are many risks on the table with the economy.

In other words, people can expect news from this project when companies can be assured their investments will be safe, or simply when the economy recovers enough to support them fully again, which could be in as few as two or three months. :shrug:

After the project lands a tenant though, it will receive final approval from the city council with fresh new groundbreaking and completion dates. :tup:

And for anyone who thinks this project is dead, think again. Just because there hasn't been news coming from it doesn't mean it's cancelled. :P

Being the optimistic person I am with a lot of engineering and development background, I would predict a groundbreaking date of late 2010 to early 2011.

[Dac150]

For instance, GSK has been considering moving hqs to philly since the proposal.

Really, where did you hear that?:sly: I’d be very surprised if they would uproot themselves from London.

[Onn]

Really, where did you hear that?:sly: I’d be very surprised if they would uproot themselves from London.

I assume they mean their American offices, and yes it was reported a long time ago. But their lease on the place they are currently at in the Philly area isn't up for a few more years yet.

http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2008/10/06/story14.html

[Dac150]

Ah ok, their 'American HQ' makes more sense.

[phillyscooter]

Change the name from American Commerce Center to Aberdeen Asset Center!

[brian.odonnell20]

Great article link onn.. also a GSK lease would take up the majority of the tower’s 1.3 million square feet of office space.. enough to get final approval. But its current leases are not up until 2013 2014, hopefully it could make a deal to kickstart the project before then ? ? ;)

[Aaamazarite]

This project will shoot Philly into the stratosphere. It will be the symbol of the city in the 21st Century like City Hall was in the 20th.

[We Got Five]

KPMG, TD Bank and Janney were never even remotely serious contenders to fill this and will never be. Marsh? Really? Come on.

GSK is an option, a legitimate option. But that option is getting bleaker because they continue to shuttle jobs to North Carolina in cost cutting measures...I'm more concerned that they could leave Philly in 2014.

Optimism is one thing. But reality is something else. This building will be built when someone outside the area steps in.

[brian.odonnell20]

good point.. although the companies I had listed off were legitimately interested tenants in summer 2009 according to market sources (interested counts..?). I personally do not have too much confidence in any of the companies besides gsk as well as tdb at one point in time. But the point I was trying to make was that businesses from outside the region like you said are going to make big moves like this when the economy can be stable enough for it.

Mind you I'm not too worried about gsk leaving.. despite the cost cutting measures they appear to be more interested in consolidating offices in one building which would actually apparently save money.

Either way, it really all depends on how bad the city wants this one, because essentially, if they want to attract outside sources, they will have to take steps toward being a more attractive city for businesses to move their offices to and stake long term leases in.

There's not too much debate that this is still a live project, we just need to be patient and the developers just need to be agressive when the economy picks up. :)

[We Got Five]

Either way, it really all depends on how bad the city wants this one, because essentially, if they want to attract outside sources, they will have to take steps toward being a more attractive city for businesses to move their offices to and stake long term leases in.


We've been saying this for 25 years. No one would argue that center city hasn't become an attractive destination for leisure travelers. In fact, I believe it's become a great weekend trip for many on the east coast. But from a business standpoint, the reality is troubling. The office market has not grown in 25 years. I asked the question two week's ago...who was the last major company to move to center city? There needs to be a seismic shift in the way we create/conduct business before we ever see any changes. The continued trend of marketing to young college graduates, the expansion and creation of the new PHL airport, and increased public trans will help over the next 15-20 years.

[brian.odonnell20]

Being an architect I disagree with a lot of the design elements of this building. For one thing, it's just way too tall for the skyline. the only angle it even kind of looks proportionate in is from the art museum. Although the massive height of the building is very important for the city aura and pride and things like that, I feel it just simply throws all the balance and art out of the skyline, which imo is quite beautiful as it is now, especially with the comcast center. If/when it gets built at this height there is going to need to be a 1100 or 1200 footer built to the left of it (looking at it from the stadiums/I95) to make the skyline beautiful again. Also, besides the height, the midrise is really imposing and unnecessary. It could honestly be half as long as it is and would make the whole building seem less demanding and outlandish. I like the idea of an observation deck, although there really isn't much at all to see compared to the empire state building or the sears/willis tower. And also in general I'd like for once to not have a skyscraper being built in this country that doesn't cheat its way above 1500 feet. The freedom tower is only something like 1370 without the spire and the acc is only 1210without its 300 foot spire. 63 floors? honestly? The comcast center nearly has that and its how many feet shorter??

IDK ill take take what I can though. Its like the health care bill.. i dont really like it but its a good start. :)

[wanderer34]

Look, Odonnell!!! I can understand your POV but I believe that this build ing is a must for this city to be competitive in this country, especially w/ Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, and especially Miami have just been thrust into the world scene. Philly needs to cast aside it's colonial image for awhile and become like a SF, in terms of economics. We have universities, hospitals, manufacturing (even though it's not the same type of heavy manufacting, but it's still there), transportation, port operations (hoping for the dredging project to go through), tourism, and even bioengineering, filmmaking, casinos, and the art scene is helping us. This skyscraper is our future!!!!

cubanChris: I didn't really know whether to continue or abolish the BRT. The reason why was because I wasn't sure whether property taxes would go sky high (like in Jersey). NYC's property taxes are similar to Philly because they rely on real estate assessments to determine the annual rate (ex. $100K - $1K annual rate). Phila has a lower annual rate, and I'm afraid that Nutter might raise the rate to make Phila look like NYC (hint - gentrification). And while I have no problem w/ gentrification, especially in places like Strawberry Mansion and Parkside, which actually need it, other stable places like Germantown, Olney, and the NE don't need it, they all just need better services (police, fire, sanitation, schools, etc.). I'd really hate to see the entire city limits of Philly turn into another carbon copy Disneyland forjust the rich. I know, I'moriginally from Bklyn and NYC gets weirder every year to me.

To all: I was always under the impression that the Smithsonian was the largest in the country. As far as other cities, it's NYC's museum mile that I think off, but with the Barnes, Philly's just seems more cohesive!!!

[MedicineMan]

Being an architect I disagree with a lot of the design elements of this building. For one thing, it's just way too tall for the skyline. the only angle it even kind of looks proportionate in is from the art museum. Although the massive height of the building is very important for the city aura and pride and things like that, I feel it just simply throws all the balance and art out of the skyline, which imo is quite beautiful as it is now, especially with the comcast center. If/when it gets built at this height there is going to need to be a 1100 or 1200 footer built to the left of it (looking at it from the stadiums/I95) to make the skyline beautiful again. Also, besides the height, the midrise is really imposing and unnecessary. It could honestly be half as long as it is and would make the whole building seem less demanding and outlandish. I like the idea of an observation deck, although there really isn't much at all to see compared to the empire state building or the sears/willis tower. And also in general I'd like for once to not have a skyscraper being built in this country that doesn't cheat its way above 1500 feet. The freedom tower is only something like 1370 without the spire and the acc is only 1210without its 300 foot spire. 63 floors? honestly? The comcast center nearly has that and its how many feet shorter??

IDK ill take take what I can though. Its like the health care bill.. i dont really like it but its a good start. :)

I am a guy who likes symmetry/proportion in a skyline. For me, the "Rocky" view from the Art Museum steps is the "gold standard" for the City of Brotherly Love. City Hall being the center of the universe. I frequently perform my 5AM runs on the Parkway. On many of those runs I would look toward city hall and visualize future skyscrapers on Market Street East in an attempt in my mind to balance the skyline. As someone stated much earlier; it is too bad that they can not put ACC at 8th and Market on that parking lot.
Saying that; if the choice is: ACC at its proposed location and a very disproportionate skyline vs no ACC, I to will live with the " quirky" skyline .

[brian.odonnell20]

"The building is deep into the city’s planning and approval process, which may work for Glaxo’s timeframe to make a decision before its leases expire and get the building out of the ground, according to industry sources."

"Such a gargantuan lease would mean a great deal for American Commerce and its developer. At one point, TD Banknorth was eying the building. A GSK lease would take up the majority of the tower’s 1.3 million square feet of office space and enable the developer to secure a construction loan, said a person with knowledge of the project."



Possible Glaxo move might be a boon for tower project - Philadelphia Business Journal :D

[Eigenwelt]

:previous:

Brian, that article is from October, 2008. Glaxo has since moved out of the city.

[Onn]

:previous:

Brian, that article is from October, 2008. Glaxo has since moved out of the city.

Since when did that happen?

[Eigenwelt]

Since when did that happen?

I may have misphrased that. GSK didn't leave the city, but about a month after that article Brian referenced Glaxo designated their Research Triangle campus as their headquarters.

So the company is based in North Carolina now, Philly is just a branch office.

[We Got Five]

That is correct, Eigenwelt.

ACC will be built when someone outside the area moves in.

Side note - I heard a scary rumor on Saturday regarding Towers Watson. Although they signed a deal for over 200,000 sf last year they have intentions to slowly move operations to VA - where Watson Wyatt was once based. This would be a huge loss for the city...especially in an era where they are trying to market themselves to new companies.

[brian.odonnell20]

you might disagree but i'm kind of over this not being built for awhile.. I know i had said before that the building could find a tenant as early as later this year, but if it doesn't I don't really care that bad anymore. After a few years of limbo this kind of lost its initial luster after realistic people started to bog it down with the truth, that it comes down to if philly can get an outside business to move in, which is virtually unheard of. I just think it's ironic that the problem with most buildings around the country with the same status right now is the funding, when acc had safely lined it up via a pension fund early on. oh well... this kind of sucks.. a lot. I kinda have the feeling this is going to be just a lot of rising action and no climax. Hopefully I'm wrong...

When you get right down to it, this building is not that great, and it doesn't need to get built right away. Also, I would strongly rather it be ~1100-1200ft, not 1510, but whatever. I also have a feeling this thread is going to die down until there is any news at all about this, since there really isn't anything people including me are productively writing about short of skepticism, criticism, and the root of the problem right now...

[wanderer34]

When you get right down to it, this building is not that great, and it doesn't need to get built right away. Also, I would strongly rather it be ~1100-1200ft, not 1510, but whatever. I also have a feeling this thread is going to die down until there is any news at all about this, since there really isn't anything people including me are productively writing about short of skepticism, criticism, and the root of the problem right now...

The question that I'd love to ask is why must we as a city settle for less??? I don't really see how shortening the ACC to 1200 ft will improve the aesthetics of the tower. I'd love to see this tower built in it's original form and height. I don't mind seeing alterations on the exterior, and maybe even adding condo units to it's top floors (similar to Liberty Place, and the John Hancock Tower in Chicago). I just don't like the negadelphian approach that seems to permeate all aspects of life in this city. I just wish hat we can get a better mayor than the one we have right now. Nutter's idea of development is to just tear down housing, leave empty lots causing blight in certain neighborhoods, and to put a casino in the middle of CC. WHAT A FRAUD!!!!!!

[brian.odonnell20]

:previous: I can definitely understand what your saying. The reason i'd want it shortened is only because it's over 550 feet taller than anything else, and kills any of the balance, proportion, or symmetry in the skyline existing today. The tower itself is fine for me. Believe me, I'm not trying to settle for less, its just that after more than 2 years of fruitless planning and development, with the building still lacking an anchor tenant and final city approval, its very hard to be so optimistic about this project.

The proven upside is, though, that a lot of supertalls in NYC are either getting approved or have started construction as of late, because of class A office space coming back to the national financial market. Hopefully this can carry over to Philly enough to get this tower through. The financing is there, and so is enough public support. Philly just needs to attract an outside source. :tup:

[brian.odonnell20]

And I wouldn't call nutter a fraud but he has lost a lot of ambition and is bringing the city down. He actually supports the tower, though.

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

I really like this building, it would be a great landmark for Philadeplhia. The second tallest building in North America, behind 1 WTC (Freedom Tower). But I doubt that it gets built, at least within the next 5-6 years.

[brian.odonnell20]

I really like this building, it would be a great landmark for Philadeplhia. The second tallest building in North America, behind 1 WTC (Freedom Tower). But I doubt that it gets built, at least within the next 5-6 years.

The only way it gets started within 5-6 years is to have a company move to philly instead of nearby ny, which sounds pretty impossible right now with all the development in manhattan and brooklyn.
I don't care how long it takes though. I'd wait ten years for this thing.:D

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

The only way it gets started within 5-6 years is to have a company move to philly instead of nearby ny, which sounds pretty impossible right now with all the development in manhattan and brooklyn.
I don't care how long it takes though. I'd wait ten years for this thing.:D

The tenants. That's the point. NYC and Philly need tenants. NYC for its WTC-towers and Philly for that one. The problem is, that there is simply no need for office space in the entire country.

[wanderer34]

The only way it gets started within 5-6 years is to have a company move to philly instead of nearby ny, which sounds pretty impossible right now with all the development in manhattan and brooklyn.
I don't care how long it takes though. I'd wait ten years for this thing.:D

I'm still not sure whether Bklyn would become a viable business district in it's own right. Maybe some smaller companies can go in DT Bklyn, but I don't really see a major one moving there. If you've ever been to DT Bklyn, it's nothing more than discount stores, chicken shacks, and etc. In other words, it's like Market East, but 10X bigger. Downtown and Midtown Manhatan have always been the major CBD's in NYC.

What Philly needs to do is to extend the KOZ to the ACC, plus any other tax breaks available. I know, corporate welfare isn't my way of doing things, but if that's the only thing that's holding the tenant from coming here (TD, GSK, etc.) and getting the ACC built, than Philly and PA (especially Rendell) needs to get this rolling before the end of this year.

[brian.odonnell20]

The tenants. That's the point. NYC and Philly need tenants. NYC for its WTC-towers and Philly for that one. The problem is, that there is simply no need for office space in the entire country.

The good news is that'll change coming into next year.

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

The good news is that'll change coming into next year.

I really hope so!

[brian.odonnell20]

Any ideas on tenants like Towers Perrin, KPMG, White and Williams, Beneficial Bank and Cozen O’Connor? As of 2009 they all were looking for a lot of office space. :rolleyes:

[hammersklavier]

Well, I've heard no news but inking contracts with two of them would provide enough floor space to begin construction. It would also be a move for Beneficial Bank to brand their own named tower, if they're angling to expand.

[We Got Five]

Brian - Towers Watson will not be in Philadelphia within 5 years. They have seized most, if not all Philadelphia hiring and will move their operations to VA - where Watson Wyatt was based.

The other transactions are under 125,000 square feet...hardly enough to kick start a new building. Not to mention the gaping holes these organizations would leave in other downtown areas.

[brian.odonnell20]

just spitballin here