PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS

[pwp]

Right now, it's all a question of tenant credit and the rent premium tenant prospects would be willing to pay over market to be in the building.

Comcast Center is possible only because Comcast was willing to pay a 25%+ premium over standard Philadelphia CBD Class A market rent to have their own signature HQ tower.

ACC would only be possible if the main tenants were highly creditworthy and willing to pay similar premiums.

It's certainly possible.

Yup, just wait for the market to rebound. I'd imagine an organization in a sector that's somewhat insulated from the recession would be best position.

[Kripke]

No real updates but seeing how this thread has recently started talking tenants and the local economy I figured this was worth posting:


Monday, April 13, 2009
Ikea, BCF leave PA sites, Microsoft, Cozen seek space: report

Philip T. Eastman Jr, economic development boss over at Exelon Corp.'s Peco Energy Co. here in Philadelphia, keeps his power-selling colleagues informed about big customers coming into (and leaving) town, and shares his April report with us. First rumors, then facts:

- "Both Cira South and the American Commerce Center projects are still in the pipeline but will not be moving forward" soon
- "Ikea’s distribution center in Levittown will leave the area to consolidate to Perryville, Maryland, this fall."
- "Burlington Coat Factory will leave its (Bristol-area) facility to consolidate in Burlington, NJ This will leave almost 650,000 sq ft of distribution space in Bucks County open by the end of the year."
- "Gamesa is looking throughout Pennsylvania for a suitable site to locate a 38MW wind project."
- "Microsoft is looking to expand its 10,000sf training facility in Wayne to 40-50,000sf in the Radnor area."
- "There are still large tenants in the market looking for space including Towers Perrin, KPMG, White and Williams, Beneficial Bank and Cozen O’Connor," though other law firms are expected to cut back.

1) Suburban office market -- "Has finally begun to experience decline. Siemens Medical laid-off 500 people in Malvern, Chester County... Advanta laid-off 281 people in Chester and Montgomery Counties, Bank of America (former Countrywide) laid-off 109 employees in Montgomery County and put its 87,000 square foot facility in Hatboro on the market." Almost the only guy winning tenants out there is Brian O'Neill, who's leased 97,000 sq ft at Worthington near Exton to VWR International, and 64,000 sq ft to Turner Investment Partners. Both leave smaller sites nearby (West Chester, Berwyn).

2) Center City/U City: "Avid Radiopharmaceuticals leased 15,500 square feet at the newly constructed 3711 Market Street in the University Science Center. Children’s Hospital took occupancy in 15,000 square feet of office space at the Wanamaker Building."

3) Factory and warehouse -- "Torto Wheaton Research predicts... the worst is yet to come." CoStar Group shows Phila area industrial vacancy up 0.3% to 10.3% in the first quarter; flex vacancies up 0.8% to 13.5%; warehouse vacancies up 0.3% to 10%

4) Deals -- "A joint venture between Exeter Property Group and Strategic Realty Investments has acquired the 357,658-square-foot Unisys Technology Center in Malvern, PA, from Unisys Corp. for $19.5 million, or roughly $55 per square foot. " Unisys will lease back half the 1968-built complex on Swedesford and Cedar Hollow Rds. "A multi-million dollar renovation is planned."

5) Government subsidies -- Gov Rendell gave U.S. "green" stimulus cash: Bridge Business Center LP in Bristol, PA "will receive $1 million and invest another $1.6 million" to recycle waste heat. Sysco Food Services in Philadelphia "will match a state investment of $840,000 to construct a 190,000-sq ft expansion of its distribution center and warehouse" using solar power. Also PA Dept of Community and Economic Development gives Philadelphia $100,000 for a "comprehensive industrial district study" around Henry Ave. and Hunting Park West, which MCP and Budd Co. left and Tastykake is abandoning

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Ikea_BCF_leave_PA_sites_Microsoft_Cozen_seek_space_report.html

[graupner]

wow, why was my post deleted ??

it was interesting, totally on-topic, not offending and discussing wether this building could be built.

Thanks moderators for making this forum a less interesting place.

[BigDan35]

wow, why was my post deleted ??

it was interesting, totally on-topic, not offending and discussing wether this building could be built.

Thanks moderators for making this forum a less interesting place.

Good bye

[Dream'n]

The only cities with more Fortune 500 companies than Philly are NYC, Chicago and the upstart sunbelt cities of Houston,Dallas and Atlanta.Keep in mind that Dallas is 3x Houston 4x times the land area of Philadephia which skews the statistics significantly.

Fortune 500 Companies

Philadelphia

Sunoco 56
Comcast 79
Cigna 141
Aramark 216
Rohm & Haas 295
Crown Holdings 325
Sovereign Bancorp 469


Boston

Liberty Mutual 94
State Street Corp. 225

Los Angeles

Northrop Grumman 76
Occidental Petroleum 123
KB Home 340
Reliance Steel 345
CB Richard Ellis 405


Twin Cities 2007 take away number 9:

1 UnitedHealth Group 21 71,542.0 Minnetonka
2 Target 33 59,490.0 Minneapolis
3 Best Buy 72 30,848.0 Richfield
4 Travelers Cos. 89 25,090.0 St. Paul
5 3M 97 22,923.0 St. Paul
6 Supervalu 117 19,863.6 Eden Prairie
7 U.S. Bancorp 123 19,109.0 Minneapolis
8 CHS 166 14,383.8 Inver Grove Heights
9 Northwest Airlines 195 12,568.0 Eagan
10 General Mills 213 11,640.0 Minneapolis
11 Medtronic 222 11,292.0 Minneapolis
12 Xcel Energy 251 9,847.8 Minneapolis
13 Ameriprise Financial 297 8,140.0 Minneapolis
14 Land O'Lakes 329 7,102.3 Arden Hills
15 C.H. Robinson Worldwide 349 6,556.2 Eden Prairie
16 Thrivent Financial for Lutherans 370 6,164.6 Minneapolis
17 Hormel Foods 403 5,745.5 Austin
18 Mosaic 427 5,305.8 Plymouth
19 Ecolab 457 4,895.8 St. Paul
20 Nash-Finch 476 4,631.6 Minneapolis

[Don098]

Ok, enough. Back to the ACC please. Has anyone heard ANYTHING lately? It's been dead quiet.

[Swinefeld]

Really. Enough with the city vs city crap. Currently Hill International is trying to land tenants. Given the current economic situation, this isn't going to be easy. Just be patient, they've come too far to go back on their plans now.

[NYguy]

Probably posted before, but I hadn't seen it..from KPF

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/111405621/original.jpg

[samoen313]

Probably posted before, but I hadn't seen it..from KPF

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/111405621/original.jpg

looks a bit like simtower

[Plompy Lfeata]

The parking lot is still located on the site, however these signs are now up (i dont know when they were put up, i saw them first today) a reassuring sign anyway

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3487545400_9de2144d32_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3378/3486731087_bc12e78156_b.jpg

[Ninjawho]

Those signs have been up for at least a month or two...FYI.

[Londonee]

So after spending quite a bit of time at the Comcast Center i can now speak pretty frankly that INga's assertion that the ACC--regardless of its size---would bring too much density to a particular corner/block is absolutely asinine. It was pretty brainless to begin with to complain about too much density in a city like Philadelphia which should strive to increase its density pretty much everywhere save Rittenhouse Square and Old City on a Fri/Sat night. And frankly, after re-reading her article, it's fairly clear that she didnt do her proper homework, ie scoping out the scene, before making her claims.

At any rate my observation of this stretch of Arch Street is this: at present, it's the opposite of dense. Even with the addition of the city's tallest building, it is still so quiet on this street in terms of pedestrian traffic that it's almost awkward. It is also ridiculously quiet in terms of vehicular traffic. I have never once had to proceed to the 17th and ARch intersection to cross the street to Wawa because it's generally wide open to cross. Further, there is such a dearth of vehicles that i've in fact witnessed drivers flying through the lights at high speeds because they are thee only ones on the road! In a word, the lack of traffic and congestion can be: dangerous.

So standing on this quiet stretch of Arch street and trying to picture the ACC bringing too much density is bizarre and ridiculous. Trying to picture the streets jammed full with hundreds of cars between the blocks, pedestrians fighting to get around one another to get to work or grab a coffee...it just cannot happen. The ACC would be an amazing addition to the energy of this sadly quiet street in the heart of our downtown core.

[Aleks]

At first I thought this building was okay but I really don't like it now. Yes, it does look like the Freedom Tower, I won't say it doesn't. But other than that I think it's too plain and it isn't classy/graceful. Especially for a city like Philly.

[Hoodrat]

I really love this design...hope it becomes a reality.

[Plompy Lfeata]

At first I thought this building was okay but I really don't like it now. Yes, it does look like the Freedom Tower, I won't say it doesn't. But other than that I think it's too plain and it isn't classy/graceful. Especially for a city like Philly.

i mostly agree, while i would not mind seeing it built, i think a site of this size has much more potential than just a huge glass box with a smaller glass box on the side, i also feel that if the hotel portion is high enough so it can be seen from a distance it will look quite awkward. i do really like the lower levels though where it connects with the street, i just wish there was a better way to meld the hotel into the rest of the building instead of having it look like an afterthought. IMHO anyway..

[Kripke]

i mostly agree, while i would not mind seeing it built, i think a site of this size has much more potential than just a huge glass box with a smaller glass box on the side, i also feel that if the hotel portion is high enough so it can be seen from a distance it will look quite awkward. i do really like the lower levels though where it connects with the street, i just wish there was a better way to meld the hotel into the rest of the building instead of having it look like an afterthought. IMHO anyway..
I agree, the hotel will just shoot out as an afterthought. If the top corner of the hotel was more slanted in towards the rest of the build - even if it still flattened out to an open space - that alone would make it feel like a more complete structure. But even regardless, build it!

[ethereal_reality]

The American Commerce Center is briefly mentioned in an article about Comcast Center in this month's issue of Architectural Record.

You can view the article online at www.archrecord.com
Click on Projects, then click on Building Types Study then pick
Office Buildings 0509.

[SSBMEXPERT]

So, how much longer till something new on this turns up? Anything different happen at all yet? It's been a while now... Seeing this thread die down so much makes me worry.

[Don098]

So, how much longer till something new on this turns up? Anything different happen at all yet? It's been a while now... Seeing this thread die down so much makes me worry.

There's talk of downscaling this...check the development thread. There was a lot of discussion on it a few weeks ago.

[americanskyscraper22]

no! no downscaling!!!!!

[THE BIG APPLE]

This will be the greatest thing that has happened to Philadelphia since the Comcast Center.

[americanskyscraper22]

This will be the greatest thing that has happened to Philadelphia since the Comcast Center.

this will be twice as good as the comcast center

[THE BIG APPLE]

this will be twice as good as the comcast center

Yeah it will be, but to me the Comcast Center has a little better design. Overall great tower.

[StevenW]

I like the design. I love the bottom portion the best, though. Awesome. :)

[max1979]

If this new building is built, do you think you will be able to see the Empire State Building lights at night from the top of on a very clear night?

[THE BIG APPLE]

If this new building is built, do you think you will be able to see the Empire State Building lights at night from the top of on a very clear night?

I don't think so. ESB is 83 miles from the building site. The farthest you'll see is Princeton, NJ.

[max1979]

I don't think so. ESB is 83 miles from the building site. The farthest you'll see is Princeton, NJ.
You see, I was thinking 83 miles may be possible from the top of each skyscraper, i.e. if you can see 50 miles from the ESB and let's say 40 miles from 1200' of the new Philadelphia building, it seems that you could possibly combine the distance if you did it from the top of each to the other (i.e. if both buildings could be seen from Princeton, NJ)? I do not know what the elevations are between the sites. I believe if they build this building, that you will be able to see the top lights of the ESB from the roof of the American Commerce Center given a very clear night. This link I found shows the approximate line of sight (except from the Comcast Center): http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116631520971247254523.0004682a607ed781558d0&ll=40.299429,-74.564209&spn=0.794949,1.785278&z=10. It seems elevation does not get much over 200 feet in between the sites.

[volguus zildrohar]

You really wouldn't be able to see either building from either end - distance, Earth's curvature maybe. Possibly one from Princeton.

[wanderer34]

Yeah it will be, but to me the Comcast Center has a little better design. Overall great tower.


I beg to differ!!! And it has nothing to do with height, but I feel that the ACC is the total package of all the Philly skyscrapers, including Liberty Place!!!:yes:

[THE BIG APPLE]

The Earth is round not flat. We'll see if we could see the ESB if this gets built.

^^^It's a great skyscraper. I just think the Comcast has more lines and better design. ACC will just be like the cherry on the amazing sundae.

[Patrick]

At first I thought this building was okay but I really don't like it now. Yes, it does look like the Freedom Tower, I won't say it doesn't. But other than that I think it's too plain and it isn't classy/graceful. Especially for a city like Philly.

I never had an opinion on this building, I never cared for it. But now I really dislike it as well. It is so plain, I mean god awful boring. It's not HORRIBLE but it could defiantly use some improvements. 63 floors and will be "taller" than the Sears Tower, ridiculous.

[Ninjawho]

Are you serious? how many times do we have to hear about how "plain" and "boring" ACC is. HELLO. THIS IS A PRELIMINARY DESIGN. It's not going to look like this. Heck, it might get majorly downsized...its always nice when people follow the history in the thread they're posting in. Saves bandwidth.

[We Got Five]

Just an FYI - last week's PBJ contained an insert that had a short article on ACC's potential tenants. GSK is still eyeing 900,000 sf (or more), but Janney Montgomery Scott, Marsh McClennan and KPMG are thought to be seeking space as well. I have several close ties to KPMG and they are indeed looking for a larger block of space...they plan to grow their Philadelphia operation significantly over the next 3-4 years. They are also looking into a refitted space at 20th and Market. The article also mentioned that Wells Fargo may grow operations in center city with it's recent merger with Wachovia. Wells Fargo wants to grow it's presence on the east coast.

[Cro Burnham]

Friday, June 19, 2009
As sales slow, regional office market holds its own
Philadelphia Business Journal - by Natalie Kostelni Staff Writer

The Center City office market is so far holding up much better than its metropolitan counterparts across the nation and is expected to continue to withstand the economic downturn with few major scars.

The area’s office market has had limited exposure to the meltdown of major financial institutions that began last fall. It also has been shielded by having had relatively little new construction in recent years that would have saturated the office market.

Nationally, about 55 million square feet of new office space is expected to come on the market this year, and about the same in 2010. In Philadelphia, no new office space is coming online in the next two years in spite of talk of new office towers.

At least one of those towers, American Commerce Center, is making progress despite an environment of tight credit and few deals. GlaxoSmithKline is eying the proposed 2.2 million-square-foot mixed-use tower, which would stand taller than the Empire State Building at 1,500 feet tall. The pharmaceutical company is considering relocating its Philadelphia operations there, which would total roughly 900,000 square feet. Other companies have also reportedly shown an interest in the building, according to market sources. They include Janney Montgomery Scott, Marsh McClennan and KPMG.

Developer Hill International Real Estate Partners made headway late last year with City Council unanimously approving rezoning a surface lot at 18th and Arch streets to make way for the project. American Commerce Center would create a landmark in the city as well as change the skyline and provide new office, retail, hotel and public space.

Hill International needs to land an anchor tenant to kick off the project.

The biggest unknown in the market may link to the recent Wachovia Corp. merger with Wells Fargo & Co. Wachovia is one of the city’s largest tenants and has most of its space along South Broad Street. Common wisdom has Wells Fargo retaining Wachovia’s size here and possibly even growing since the merger gave the San Francisco bank an automatic foothold in a major East Coast market.

Though Philadelphia is positioned better than other cities, that doesn’t mean it’s immune from greater market forces. More tenants are renewing leases rather than incurring the expense of moving. Renewals jumped last year to a range of 60 percent to 65 percent from a historical average of 50 percent to 55 percent, according to Grubb & Ellis.

Those renewals were also short-term deals of fewer than five years, as companies have been wary of making long-term commitments and taking on new debt. Some tenants are also trying to bide time and not make any near-term leasing decisions to get a better handle on where the market might be and what their needs may be in the next year or so.

Despite this, vacancy is expected to creep up over the next two years. Center City’s office vacancy rate hit single-digits last year, hovering at slightly above 9 percent. It ended 2008 at 10.1 percent and has climbed to 11.1 percent so far this year.

One part of the commercial market that isn’t expected to soon rebound is the investment market. Twelve major office buildings valued at $1.5 billion and totaling 7.9 million square feet were up for sale last year. Few made it to the settlement table.

[BigDan35]

When this was first proposed, most people on this site seemed sure that it would be built...just not sure as to when. There was good progress too, if I remember correctly it cleared about 3 construction hurdles/hearings in a row? And gained approval?? Yet since then it seems dead, nothing. And I'm curious if those same people that were so sure before, are still sure now?

[Ninjawho]

When this was first proposed, most people on this site seemed sure that it would be built...just not sure as to when. There was good progress too, if I remember correctly it cleared about 3 construction hurdles/hearings in a row? And gained approval?? Yet since then it seems dead, nothing. And I'm curious if those same people that were so sure before, are still sure now?



I don't recall anyone ever saying it was going to be built this summer. I think, except for the the rumors of possible downsizing, theres been nothing but good news for this. Official word coming from the developers was that the earliest this was starting was this coming winter. So theres still time for more news...

[BigDan35]

I don't recall anyone ever saying it was going to be built this summer. I think, except for the the rumors of possible downsizing, theres been nothing but good news for this. Official word coming from the developers was that the earliest this was starting was this coming winter. So theres still time for more news...

I never said it was going to be built now. That's why I stated obviously "most people were sure it would be built....JUST NOT SURE AS TO WHEN"

I know it's not supposed to be built right now. I was just asking if the same people who originally had no concerns at all about this being built, eventually, were still so sure? Or if those same people now are starting to have second-thoughts. I'm just so sick of hearing about tons of projects everywhere being canned. It gets frustrating and annoying. And makes me not put weight on any proposal anymore.

[Ninjawho]

I never said it was going to be built now. That's why I stated obviously "most people were sure it would be built....JUST NOT SURE AS TO WHEN"

I know it's not supposed to be built right now. I was just asking if the same people who originally had no concerns at all about this being built, eventually, were still so sure? Or if those same people now are starting to have second-thoughts. I'm just so sick of hearing about tons of projects everywhere being canned. It gets frustrating and annoying. And makes me not put weight on any proposal anymore.

I think it'll start up in a year or two. In the very least we'll hear news about tenants in that time. Whether they break grown or not at that time is another story. Honestly, I still feel this project is different than many of the projects that are getting canned or mothballed. Its retail tenants are basically secured and once it gets a major tenant or two, (which seems, at least according to the aforementioned articles, to be eminent), this will be built barring a MAJOR MAJOR financial meltdown. They don't need the types of loans other projects haven't been able to get. Plus, in a year or two, if they did need loans, things are looking like they'll be on the up and up by then.

I think, more or less, they're on schedule, at least the one they gave. Which is this winter to next winter sometime.

[We Got Five]

It comes down to an easing in the financial markets and the ability to land major corporate tenants. We've talked about this time and time again. Notice they haven't shut the parking lot down yet? That was rumored two months ago. We're looking at another 6-12 months before we see any movement regarding credit, etc. Hill International better hope some of these potential tenant's (i.e. KPMG, Marsh, and GSK) don't look elsewhere. These companies may have to with the timing of this project. And city cannot afford to miss an opportunity to land a big name or have an established one add space.

[Austinlee]

I can't believe there are 72 pages of discussion on this proposal already. There are ALOT of Philly fans on SSP.

[Cro Burnham]

I can't believe there are 72 pages of discussion on this proposal already. There are ALOT of Philly fans on SSP.

I'm with you, Pride - but if you think this is alot of pages about nothing, check out the Chicago Spire thread. Must be at least 200 pages of "I think it could still happen if [insert condition of choice]."

[Parkway]

I'm with you, Pride - but if you think this is alot of pages about nothing, check out the Chicago Spire thread. Must be at least 200 pages of "I think it could still happen if [insert condition of choice]."

Not to mention the hundred plus "It looks like the Freedom Tower" that seemed to dominate various pages in here.

[Cro Burnham]

Posted on Wed, Jul. 1, 2009

Hill International takes hit on Middle East exposure

By Sonja Ryst

Inquirer Staff Writer

Hill International Inc.'s chief executive officer, Irvin Richter, has had to deal with investors who think construction projects and the Middle East are a scary combination.

Hill's "exposure to the Mideast has given people pause," said Timothy McHugh, an analyst at William Blair & Co. L.L.C.

Hedge funds, in particular, have dumped the company's stock, making its 39-percent drop one of the steepest among local companies in the first half of 2009.

Though based in Marlton, much of Hill's construction-management work is abroad and includes overseeing Dubai's Mall of Arabia. The problem for Hill: That project and similar ones were delayed after Dubai's real-estate bubble collapsed, a result of the global recession and a big drop in crude-oil prices since last summer. Just yesterday, Standard & Poor's Corp. cut its credit rating for Dubai as the ratings firm expressed concern about the emirate's willingness to continue backing some companies hit hard by the economic slump.

Though investors were spooked about the Dubai headlines, Richter said business in other areas in the region, such as Qatar and Egypt, is still growing. Hill's revenue from the Middle East has increased to nearly 40 percent of the company's total revenue, up from 35 percent last year. Hill had a 2008 profit of nearly $18 million last year on revenue of $380 million.

Now, Richter is looking for acquisitions in Europe and in other parts of the United States than its Burlington County base. He said he expects to do "probably" one more this year. He's also chasing work funded by the federal economic stimulus program.

Regardless of the direction of oil prices, Hill's projects aren't all related to that volatile market. They range from expanding airports in Bahrain to advising Los Angeles on renewable energy. Hill also is working on the American Commerce Center, a skyscraper at 1800 Arch St. in Center City that, at 1,510 feet high, is to become the tallest building in Philadelphia.

"We expect to grow this year, and we're still profitable," Richter said of the company. "In the worst economy that I've seen, to be growing and profitable is good."

[Dball]

You see, I was thinking 83 miles may be possible from the top of each skyscraper, i.e. if you can see 50 miles from the ESB and let's say 40 miles from 1200' of the new Philadelphia building, it seems that you could possibly combine the distance if you did it from the top of each to the other (i.e. if both buildings could be seen from Princeton, NJ)? I do not know what the elevations are between the sites. I believe if they build this building, that you will be able to see the top lights of the ESB from the roof of the American Commerce Center given a very clear night. This link I found shows the approximate line of sight (except from the Comcast Center): http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116631520971247254523.0004682a607ed781558d0&ll=40.299429,-74.564209&spn=0.794949,1.785278&z=10. It seems elevation does not get much over 200 feet in between the sites.

You would be able to see from one point to the other given you knew where to look. Keep in mind at that distance you are looking at a really narrow object and would need sincere zoomvision. As it stands now, you would be able to see the ESB from Philadelphia's highest point, the TV masts in Roxborough. http://www.qsl.net/kd4sai/distance.html The 200 foot elevation in between would be overcome since light does bend to some degree, particularly at sunset.

[cubanChris]

Councilman seeks control in plans for city's tallest

By CHRIS BRENNAN
Philadelphia Daily News

Mayor Nutter's desire for a City Planning Commission with more power over major construction projects bumped up yesterday against City Council's tradition of having the last word.

The American Commerce Center, a 1,510-foot office-and-hotel project proposed for 18th and Arch streets, was a test case last summer for a new approach to city planning.

Councilman Darrell Clarke introduced zoning legislation for the skyscraper, which would be the tallest building in the city and the country. The legislation, approved by Council in December, gave the Planning Commission final say on the plan of development.

Clarke said he had supported that fast-track approach then because the developer had hot prospects for tenants - GlaxoSmithKline and TD Bank. Those leads have since cooled, Clarke added.

In an unrelated zoning case, Planning Commission Executive Director Alan Greenberger testified in May that the new approach relieved Council members of "many difficult pressures" because "development in the city has become too complex."

That didn't sit well with Clarke.

"I didn't appreciate some of the language used in the testimony," said Clarke, who introduced legislation last month to return to Council final authority for the plan on how the American Commerce Center would be built.

The Planning Commission considered Clarke's new legislation in a meeting yesterday, voting unanimously to support it. Greenberger said the commission must "earn" any new powers.

"It is certainly our preference that plan of development review begin with the commission and end there," Greenberger said. "But that's a long-term goal."

Clarke's new legislation is on hold for a Council hearing until his colleagues return from summer recess Sept. 17.

"Given the economy, the likelihood that it will actually be built is somewhat limited," Clarke said of the massive project.

Plans call for a 1,210-foot office tower topped by a 300-foot spire and a 477-foot hotel attached by a sky bridge to the tower.

The project is going nowhere until the developer, Hill International Real Estate Partners, receives financing.

Peter Kelsen, an attorney for the developer, said lead tenants must be signed before construction on the tower would start. He declined to comment about GlaxoSmithKline and TD Bank.

A GlaxoSmithKline spokesman said the pharmaceutical giant has made "no decisions on moving" from its local offices.

A TD Bank spokeswoman said she would not "speculate or comment on rumors."

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20090722_Councilman_seeks_control_in_plans_for_city_s_tallest.html

<3's to city council.

[We Got Five]

"Given the economy, the likelihood that it will actually be built is somewhat limited," Clarke said of the massive project.

Ouch.

It's not looking good gang. Economically related (which it is) or not...we're not going to be able to pull the business community together for this one.

[kingofleos]

"Given the economy, the likelihood that it will actually be built is somewhat limited," Clarke said of the massive project.

Ouch.

It's not looking good gang. Economically related (which it is) or not...we're not going to be able to pull the business community together for this one.

We're feeling the same pains in Phoenix. Not sure if any of you know of our CityScape project, but we're still waiting word on the next tower getting built (which of course would be our tallest).

Looking through this thread, I really like this building the more and more I look at it. I'm pulling for you guys, it'd be a great addition to your skyline!

[SSBMEXPERT]

Hmmmm... I don't think I'm gonna start feeling any better about this untill I see some evidence that this might still be going forward... An update to the site would be nice. ;) I know it wouldn't mean much, but at least I could see that something more is going on.

*Sigh* Will Philly ever get it's chance at something over 1000 feet? The world may never know. :(

[Starsky]

This, in addition to most of Philly's skyscrapers look great. No batshit crazy, modern art buildings. Just pray that some crazy Swedish architect, Libeskind, or Gehry etc gets fixated on your city or the party is over.

[Don098]

I'm going to pretend and lie to myself that no news is good news. :) Who's with me

[hammersklavier]

I'm going to pretend and lie to myself that no news is good news. :) Who's with me
Agreed.

[philadelphiathrives]

:)

There's no need to fret. This is the time when projects would be delayed. If the economy were good and nothing were happening, then there would be cause for concern. But Hill International is strong enough to withstand the recession and hold onto the land until the economy improves.

Remember what happened with the Comcast Tower. It was first proposed in 2001 at the beginning of another recession. It took them three years to work out a deal with Comcast after years of arguments about tax incentives and the like. Then it still didn't break ground until 2006 and open until 2008, seven years after it was first proposed! If this breaks ground next year, then that would only be two years after it was proposed, not long for such a large project.

This is a great project in a great location with little controversy. This recession isn't going to last forever, no matter how hard the press tries to prolong it so that they have another "crisis" to talk about. There is no reason this shouldn't happen when the recession finally ends. :D :cheers:

[Zapatan]

I know this building seems a little good to be true, but I have to agree with philadelphiathrives, most proposals look dim at the moment yet the recession can't last forever, and this building is in a perfect location and there is not much opposition at all. There is no reason to think this thing won't be built.

[Monsieur Goat]

I say build it, granted the design is not amazing, I care more about the attention Philadelphia will get from this, the business from it will surely help Philadelphia. I would love to see an economic growth in my home city and possibly more skyscrapers. :D

[Wheelingman04]

A great city (one of the largest metros in the country obviously), needs a supertall like this.

[Zapatan]

True that^

I'm surprised that Philly hasn't built a supertall yet (Granted Comcast is damn close)

[Monsieur Goat]

True that^

I'm surprised that Philly hasn't built a supertall yet (Granted Comcast is damn close)
Thats pretty much because (correct me if I am wrong) Philly had virtually no money until the 80s when the first skyscrapers started showing up.

[banned]

Philly had virtually no money until the 80s when the first skyscrapers started showing up.Wow...I hope you're kidding...

[theWatusi]

(correct me if I am wrong)

you're wrong

[The A Train]

Thats pretty much because (correct me if I am wrong) Philly had virtually no money until the 80s when the first skyscrapers started showing up.

Wow.

Does the phrase "Gentlemen's Agreement" mean anything to you?

[OhGreatOne]

I believe that A-Trains reference is to a "gentlemen's agreement that no skyscraper could be built that would be taller than the statue of William Penn, located on City Hall. the top of the statue is some 548 feet above street level. In the 1980's, several buildings were built that were in the 700 to 800 foot range, followed by One and Two Liberty Square, and more recently, the magnificent Comcast Tower. I, too would like to see this thing get built. It would be a fine addition to one of America's truly great cities.

[Monsieur Goat]

Wow.

Does the phrase "Gentlemen's Agreement" mean anything to you?

Sorry slip up there XD

[Monsieur Goat]

you're wrong

gosh- so aggresive :)

[justremember]

Thats pretty much because (correct me if I am wrong) Philly had virtually no money until the 80s when the first skyscrapers started showing up.

Actually, as many have alluded to, somewhat of the opposite is true.

At the turn of the century, Philadelphia was constructing one of the most elaborate buildings in the world. Philadelphia's City Hall was built to be the tallest in the world, and if you go to it today, you'll realize that it's basically a museum in and of itself. When the building was complete, I believe only the Eiffel Tower and the Washington Monument were taller (I may be wrong, but this would have made City Hall the tallest BUILDING as opposed to just structures).

City Hall was such a dominate, important, and iconic building that it was decided, not by law but by the "gentleman's agreement" not to build buildings taller than City Hall. This is not a reflection of a lack of finances in Philadelphia, but of the grandeur of the city's main municipal building. Between the 1910s and the 1980s other buildings were build. The PSFS building comes to mind, which is considered by many to be the first building built in the international style.

So, Philadelphia's relative lack of height is do to historical tradition, and not this fake inferiority that some people like to paste on us.

I know I'm late on this, but some things really irk me.

[Zapatan]

bump

[Zapatan]

Was I imagining it or did I hear that there is supposed to be an observation deck in this tower?

[apetrella802]

just one of the amazing things about city hall is that it is a totally load bearing masony structure(at 548 feet), an anachronism by the time it was finished since steel framed towers were developed during it's 30 year construction history. I give architectural tours for the Phila AIA(1218 Arch) and I have had the experience that architects are amazed at this feat.

[cwd22]

Was I imagining it or did I hear that there is supposed to be an observation deck in this tower?

They did add an observation deck to the plans a little while back.

[Wheelingman04]

Yes there is an observation deck there. I was there back about 6 or 7 years ago.

[philadelphiathrives]

Actually, as many have alluded to, somewhat of the opposite is true.

At the turn of the century, Philadelphia was constructing one of the most elaborate buildings in the world. Philadelphia's City Hall was built to be the tallest in the world, and if you go to it today, you'll realize that it's basically a museum in and of itself. When the building was complete, I believe only the Eiffel Tower and the Washington Monument were taller (I may be wrong, but this would have made City Hall the tallest BUILDING as opposed to just structures).

City Hall was such a dominate, important, and iconic building that it was decided, not by law but by the "gentleman's agreement" not to build buildings taller than City Hall. This is not a reflection of a lack of finances in Philadelphia, but of the grandeur of the city's main municipal building. Between the 1910s and the 1980s other buildings were build. The PSFS building comes to mind, which is considered by many to be the first building built in the international style.

So, Philadelphia's relative lack of height is do to historical tradition, and not this fake inferiority that some people like to paste on us.

I know I'm late on this, but some things really irk me.


It was also geography. Philadelphia's mainland and mostly flat geography made really tall buildings less necessary. And the TV and radio towers were placed on the hills of Roxborough.

Also, the city's industrial economy caused a lot of manufacturing to be along the rail lines, and the manufacturers usually liked to have their headquarters in, or next to, their factories. Comparisons to Manhattan's development are not only tiresome, but specious because of Manhattan's very different geography: being an island surrounded by a lot of water and an economy that revolved around the port.

[Zapatan]

Yes there is an observation deck there. I was there back about 6 or 7 years ago.


You were on the observation deck of a tower that doesn't exist yet?

:sly: You must have some kind of superpowers



Anyways I've searched all over and can't find that much information on this building, which may not be a bad thing, it's already been approved and everything. But does anyone have any info. whether this thing is actually moving foward or not? That would be most helpful.

[Wheelingman04]

^ I thought the person was talking about city hall? Dah. It was late at night, OK.

[hammersklavier]

You were on the observation deck of a tower that doesn't exist yet?

:sly: You must have some kind of superpowers



Anyways I've searched all over and can't find that much information on this building, which may not be a bad thing, it's already been approved and everything. But does anyone have any info. whether this thing is actually moving foward or not? That would be most helpful.
planphilly.com, phillyskyline.com, acctower.com are most helpful...

You're going to have to trawl Phillyskyline, though, the original article dates from April of '07.

[ethereal_reality]

Since the recent posts have been about Philadelphia's City Hall,
I thought you Philadelphians might like to see this really cool graphic.


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2223/phillyhuugepo1a.jpg
unknown

[phillyscooter]

Wow-ZA! Where can you get your hands on a poster size version of that? so cool!!!:banana:

er, 19/20th c.

[ethereal_reality]

^^^I don't know phillyscooter/ but I would try your historical society.
I've had this in my computer files for quite some time.


Funny, I almost didn't post it.
I'm glad I did.

[Parkway]

Since the recent posts have been about Philadelphia's City Hall,
I thought you Philadelphians might like to see this really cool graphic.


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2223/phillyhuugepo1a.jpg
unknown

Thanks! This is the coolest thing I have seen in a long time.

[skellergroup]

Thanks! This is the coolest thing I have seen in a long time.

Agreed. This is awesome.

[Wheelingman04]

Damn, that is sweet.

[Swinefeld]

I love it! That's quite a find.

[volguus zildrohar]

I've had that image for a while. I haven't tried finding a hard copy of it but the Historical Society might be a place to start...also strangely enough flea markets. I understand that there is a sizeable market there for old Philadelphia postcards. This poster kinda nips the idea of Philadelphia lacking a highrise history down a peg or two...all but a handful of those buildings depicted are now gone - the most recent though a year or two ago.

[suphilly]

^^^I don't know phillyscooter/ but I would try your historical society.
I've had this in my computer files for quite some time.


Funny, I almost didn't post it.
I'm glad I did.

Just search ebay for "Skyscrapers of Philadelphia"

They are 13x19 reprints I just ordered on

[Krases]

I guess the Philadelphia City Hall was the tallest building in the city until 1987. That's pretty cool!

[Zapatan]

That's an awesome chart and all but damn have we gotten off topic


let's not forget that this thread is about..

http://phillyskyline.com/misc/081113_accnite.jpg

:)

[SSBMEXPERT]

^^

That's funny, I tried finding a larger version of that ACC pic, with no luck until now.

Anyway, when do you all think that we'll be seeing some new articles on this? I know that in a sense that no news can be good news. But the thought of not seeing any news makes me a little uneasy.

Because if I can keep seeing recent articles on other skyscrapers that haven't been buit yet (Example: The Chicago Spire). Why is it so hard to come across anything new on this??

For some reason I just find this frustrating... Is there really absolutey nothing new on this at all? Or are some of the other supertalls so much easier to cover because of the popularity of the city surrounding them?

...Or do they just stand a better chance of being built? :???:

Or am I just being a tad too frantic about this? *Sigh*

[sentinel]

That's an awesome chart and all but damn have we gotten off topic


let's not forget that this thread is about..

http://phillyskyline.com/misc/081113_accnite.jpg

:)

That's a great rendering for a great building :cool: thanks!

[Monsieur Goat]

Actually, as many have alluded to, somewhat of the opposite is true.

At the turn of the century, Philadelphia was constructing one of the most elaborate buildings in the world. Philadelphia's City Hall was built to be the tallest in the world, and if you go to it today, you'll realize that it's basically a museum in and of itself. When the building was complete, I believe only the Eiffel Tower and the Washington Monument were taller (I may be wrong, but this would have made City Hall the tallest BUILDING as opposed to just structures).

City Hall was such a dominate, important, and iconic building that it was decided, not by law but by the "gentleman's agreement" not to build buildings taller than City Hall. This is not a reflection of a lack of finances in Philadelphia, but of the grandeur of the city's main municipal building. Between the 1910s and the 1980s other buildings were build. The PSFS building comes to mind, which is considered by many to be the first building built in the international style.

So, Philadelphia's relative lack of height is do to historical tradition, and not this fake inferiority that some people like to paste on us.

I know I'm late on this, but some things really irk me.

Okay I would just like to that I did know about the gentlemen's agreement, but I said the problem with money as the less obvious reason.

"This is not a reflection of a lack of finances in Philadelphia, but of the grandeur of the city's main municipal building."

Im not talking about construction in the 19th century, which there was a lot of construction, but the city did not have the resources to build huge skyscrapers in the 60s, 70s, and until the mid 80s. There is proof of the city having not enough funding to build a huge skyscraper.

"So, Philadelphia's relative lack of height is do to historical tradition, and not this fake inferiority that some people like to paste on us."

I am from Philadelphia and do dislike the lack of credit we get, but the city did not have the money to build skyscrapers in the 70s into the mid 80s.

[hammersklavier]

Okay I would just like to that I did know about the gentlemen's agreement, but I said the problem with money as the less obvious reason.

"This is not a reflection of a lack of finances in Philadelphia, but of the grandeur of the city's main municipal building."

Im not talking about construction in the 19th century, which there was a lot of construction, but the city did not have the resources to build huge skyscrapers in the 60s, 70s, and until the mid 80s. There is proof of the city having not enough funding to build a huge skyscraper.

"So, Philadelphia's relative lack of height is do to historical tradition, and not this fake inferiority that some people like to paste on us."

I am from Philadelphia and do dislike the lack of credit we get, but the city did not have the money to build skyscrapers in the 70s into the mid 80s.
The municipalities do not normally fund skyscraper construction, private enterprise does. (There are some exceptions.) Philly had money enough to build the BSL during this time period, no? And the Boulevard?

But since the companies based in Philly didn't want to break the tradition and convention of City Hall being the tallest building in the city, then the traditional gentleman's agreement held. This was only ever de facto and never de jure.

DC BTW has the same kind of agreement, but there it's law. No building can be taller than the Washington Monument in DC. Taller buildings skirting the borders abound.

[theWatusi]

DC BTW has the same kind of agreement, but there it's law. No building can be taller than the Washington Monument in DC. Taller buildings skirting the borders abound.

That's not true. The height limit in DC is a function of the street that the building fronts.

[Don098]

That's not true. The height limit in DC is a function of the street that the building fronts.

Amazingly after further research, Watusi is actually right. That must be some kind of myth that no building can be taller than the Washington Monument because there is no mention of it anywhere in the Height of Buildings Act of 1910. The building was the Capitol. I always wondering why there weren't any buildings over about 200 feet in DC if no one could build higher than the Monument, figuring that thing's almost 500 feet tall (not sure of the actual height). Well, now I have my answer.

Anyway, I wish the ACC was getting a redesign while it waits for a tenant.

[theWatusi]

Amazingly after further research, Watusi is actually right.

It had to happen sooner or later. :tup:

[Dball]

DC may also me limited due to Reagan Airport even though the Virginia side has bigger structures.

[Zapatan]

alright economy, rebound soon, i'm curious to see if this thing still has a fighting chance, it would be sad if it didn't :shrug:

[Zapatan]

So apparently this thing is approved according to the official sites, that means once the economy rebounds it could be a go...


god philly deserves this building, what a massive beautiful structure:)

[uaarkson]

I want them to get this building, but I'm not crazy about it. The base is an artistic disaster and the top is irritatingly similar to 1WTC.

[Don098]

So apparently this thing is approved according to the official sites, that means once the economy rebounds it could be a go...


god philly deserves this building, what a massive beautiful structure:)

No, this has only been cleared by the zoning commission; it still has to get final approval from the City Planning Commission. Those talks cooled once the economy collapsed. This building still has to sign an anchor tenant and then secure funding. It's not just sitting around waiting to be built.

[Zapatan]

^I think there's still somewhat of a chance that this building could go foward though when the economy gets better

[volguus zildrohar]

Well yes there is somewhat of a chance of it being built. Same thing goes for finding Atlantis.

The developers want to build it. Groups with an interest in the project don't necessarily have objections. The only real question is - when things rebound - can the space be absorbed. Even if the building lands a major tenant that will still put hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space on the market. The retail amenities the building offers are actually sorely needed, particularly in the corner of Center City where the project is located but it seems such thingws only come bundled with highrise projects around these parts.

[wanderer34]

I believe that the tower WILL get built, it's only a question of when the economy gets better. Right now the Dow Jones is in five digits, so it's a little indication that things are getting better than from last year, but you still need to take into account the unemployment rate in America, as well as in Phila, which might be slightly higher than the national average. If the building doesn't get approved this year. I'm hoping at least for next year, since it's supposed to take two years for the tower to get completed from start to finish.

[Zapatan]

well comcast center went through a long process before it got built (and 225 feet taller i might add)

i don´t think calling this thing dead is fair, maybe when the econ reboots


sueño contigo mi amor, que bella torre!