How would you make the A-Line work?

[mishap]

So from what we've read in the news, the HSR should have six new 60' buses by the end of the year. These particular buses are intended to be used on the Mohawk/ Upper James/ Airport corridor (the A-Line) beginning sometime in 2009. While I like the concept of the A-Line, I think there are going to be some real challenges to get it to catch on with riders.

Upper James itself isn't much of a draw for an express route. Even accepting that more people would ride thanks to better service, it's still not enough. So to really make it work, you have to have riders transfer to/from other routes. There's the problem. If you live near any of the major north-south streets on the mountain, you can take a single bus to get downtown. Why would you want to catch an east-west route to Upper James just to add one more bus to your trip, express or not?

Here's a suggestion: The A-Line should not end downtown, but rather continue west to McMaster, backing up the B-Line. That would certainly encourage riders. I read a report from Mac years ago that showed over 20% of all HSR passengers to the university were coming from above the escarpment. Imagine if they could take a single bus up the mountain, and not have to make the transfer downtown. The Downtown-McMaster corridor could use the extra capacity. Service on other routes in this corridor (like 51-University) can be adjusted accordingly. For the summer schedule only, maybe the A-Line should stop downtown.

What actions do you think the HSR and the city (since they pay for it) should do to help the A-Line become a success?

A side question: assuming there is no A-Line service on evenings and weekends, there are up to six long buses sitting unused at these times. If they should be allocated to other routes, where would you like to see them end up?

[HAMRetrofit]

I think you nailed with your suggestion of running it from the mountain to McMaster. It should have a pickups at Mohawk College and the GO train station.

Another way to run it is to stop at Mohawk, continue it down James Mountain Rd. stop at St. Joes, continue down James street, stop at Eatons Center, continue the Route to Barton, make a right, stop at the jail, then terminate the route at Hamilton General. I imagine there will be a lot of employment when the expansion is complete at the General. This way James St. and a bit of Barton gets serviced with rapid transit. This route would hit all the major employment areas along this axis.

[SteelTown]

I would like that. Would be great to have an express bus from the Mountain to McMaster.

Though I would have another express bus that goes from Limeridge Mall > Linc > stop at Upper James > Linc > Meadowlands > 403 > exit out at Aberdeen and stop at Longwood next to Innovation Park > then end at McMaster.

[go_leafs_go02]

My idea is to have the A-Line start at Mohawk College at a major new teminal on top of the mountain where all MOUNTAIN buses (besides the 43, 41, and rymal route) would end up. All the time saved on the routes could increase frequency on top of the mountain, and lots and lots of fuel due to not having to climb the mountain every single time.

at Mohawk, commuters would have to transfer to an extremely high frequency (5 minute gaps) A-Line that would run down the mountain to the Hamilton GO centre, meet up with the B-Line, and then travel simultaneously towards MacMaster University possibly along King/Main or whatever, perhaps with King and Main being two way once again, A-Line would run on Main, while the B-Line would run on King, or vice versa.

Eventually I would like to see a rapid transit being rail connecting two terminals located very close together, one at the GO Centre, and one at Mohawk College, yes, it would add an extra transfer, but the comfort and quality of your wait if need be in an indoor terminal such as the Go Centre and automatic destination and display signs tied in with GPS trackers on the buses would be nice.

Perhaps making West 5th, and the James Mountain access one lane only, and alternating during peak hours (like Sherman Access), and using the other lane to fit in a LRT railway that would be unique due to the slope of the road.

Think of how close alternative mountain accesses are. One way, less than 500 m or so is the Clairmont Access, and on the flip side, the Queen/Beckett/Garth access is the other way just over 1 km away.

Quick edit/idea:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=43.247453,-79.880047&spn=0.030134,0.080338&t=h&z=14&msid=104390991790431919848.00044846afc6e915b863b

[raisethehammer]

So from what we've read in the news, the HSR should have six new 60' buses by the end of the year. These particular buses are intended to be used on the Mohawk/ Upper James/ Airport corridor (the A-Line) beginning sometime in 2009. While I like the concept of the A-Line, I think there are going to be some real challenges to get it to catch on with riders.

Upper James itself isn't much of a draw for an express route. Even accepting that more people would ride thanks to better service, it's still not enough. So to really make it work, you have to have riders transfer to/from other routes. There's the problem. If you live near any of the major north-south streets on the mountain, you can take a single bus to get downtown. Why would you want to catch an east-west route to Upper James just to add one more bus to your trip, express or not?

Here's a suggestion: The A-Line should not end downtown, but rather continue west to McMaster, backing up the B-Line. That would certainly encourage riders. I read a report from Mac years ago that showed over 20% of all HSR passengers to the university were coming from above the escarpment. Imagine if they could take a single bus up the mountain, and not have to make the transfer downtown. The Downtown-McMaster corridor could use the extra capacity. Service on other routes in this corridor (like 51-University) can be adjusted accordingly. For the summer schedule only, maybe the A-Line should stop downtown.

What actions do you think the HSR and the city (since they pay for it) should do to help the A-Line become a success?

A side question: assuming there is no A-Line service on evenings and weekends, there are up to six long buses sitting unused at these times. If they should be allocated to other routes, where would you like to see them end up?


dang, this is a brilliant idea.
Send it to HSR. that would make this route a huge draw by connecting Mohawk and Mac as well as adding new buses along the 'B Line' route between downtown and Mac...by far the most 'crushed' stretch in the city.

[drpgq]

From my experience, the Upper James route is the busiest of the mountain routes, so I think an express would be useful. Especially since most of the traffic gets on and off at Fennell, Mohawk etc. Having the big bus would be useful too, since the disabled access buses always seem to have the few seats available filled, even during the middle of the day.

[mishap]

I think you nailed with your suggestion of running it from the mountain to McMaster. It should have a pickups at Mohawk College and the GO train station.

Mohawk is definitely part of the plan. Where it stops in the lower city would have to be determined. Probably near the GO Station. Maybe Charlton as well. West of the core, it could use exactly the same stops as the B-Line. Hopefully, the schedules would be staggered so that both buses don't hit at the same time. That can be tricky though, since B-Line is 10-minute service, and I can't see A-Line having better than 15-minute service to start. Of course, it doesn't really matter at Mac in rush hour, just keep sending buses.

[raisethehammer]

ha! someone is a dreamer. the HSR stagger buses?? fat chance.
Go wait at Main and John sometime and see this fab system in action.
No bus comes for 10 minutes or more and then all of sudden from every direction you've got a 1, 1a, 5, 10 all bumping into each other at the stop. Of course, the first bus or two gets jammed and the back two sit empty.
We could have buses coming every 2 minutes on that corridor if they would stagger them.

[raisethehammer]

by the way, I sure hope these new bus stops at King/Dundurn and Main/John aren't the wave of the future.
They have openings on all 4 sides. The snow was drifting up to my knees the other day in one of these stupid things during the storm. What's the point of having walls at all...just stick up a roof if we're going to have huge openings on all 4 sides.

[hamiltonguy]

I think it should follow the B-Line From Mac to James Street.

Along James it should stop at: Go Centre, Young Street, and Charlton (It's a steep street so there needs to be multiple access points for this business street.)

It should then travel express on James Mtn. Road to Mohawk College. Then it should travel along Fennel to Upper James.

Along Upper James it should stop at Fennel, Mohawk, The Linc/Limeridge, Stone Church, Rymal, The Mountain Transit Centre, Mount Hope and The Airport.

[raisethehammer]

I agree with that routing, except I'd eliminate the Young St stop. it's 2 short blocks from Charlton. Hunter and Charlton would suffice.

[HAMRetrofit]

The more I think about it the less I think it should go to Mac.


I think it should hit:

Mountain Plaza Mall
Mohawk College
Hamilton Psych
St. Joes
Hunter Street GO station
Eaton Center
Hamilton Jail
Hamilton General (terminal)

A-Line would be Hamilton's Institutional Express Bus

It think carving out high transit ridership along this axis is important. It would service most of Hamilton's institutional facilities linking three Hospitals. It would serve James St. with RT and begin an RT line for Barton.

[raisethehammer]

hmm, another good idea. perhaps it could turn around at the new research institute being built behind the General.
we really could use a pile of rapid transit routes in the city as evidenced by the great ideas for these route alignments.

I'd had always thought that the A-Line should go right down to Pier 8. allow mountain folks a one bus trip to the waterfront instead of having to switch at Gore Park.
I could see another route going from Eastgate Square up to Barton, along Barton to Centre Mall, over to the General to James Street. up James to GO Station, then right at St Joes (Charlton) and across Charlton to Dundurn, up to Aberdeen and the Innovation Park, then Mac. Return trip would be identical except, obviously it would use Herkimer instead of Charlton.

[SteelTown]

I'd had always thought that the A-Line should go right down to Pier 8. allow mountain folks a one bus trip to the waterfront instead of having to switch at Gore Park.

No way, I would want them to get off and hop on the new Gore to Shore shuttle bus. Personally I would LOVE to see a real electric trolley bus going up and down James Street North.

I would take these new Gore to Shore trolley buses (think the City ordered two) and place them along Barton, perhaps buy 3 more of them. Therefore creating a Barton Village athomshpere like International Village for the entire stretch of Barton. Hopefully a new stadium will be placed by the waterfront like the planned 2010 Commonwealth stadium and therefore the stadium would be in front of Barton St with the trolley buses.

The C-Line is being planned out, the difference with A and C-Line is that A-Line has been funded by the province (once again thank you transit friendly Premier Dalton).

With the C-Line I would like it to go from Heritage Green > using the Linc to stop at Limeridge Mall > Linc > stop at Upper James > Linc > Meadowlands > 403 > exit at Aderdeen > Longwood stop a Innovation Park > Main St West > McMaster.

Personally I think this is where HSR is going with the C-Line.

[markbarbera]

IMO, A-line should start at the airport, north down Upper James, west at Fennel to Mohawk College, then north again along W5 down the Claremont, west along King, north along James, west along York terminating at Aldershot GO.

[go_leafs_go02]

whats the point of having rapid transit by the airport. it is practically country out there. I can see up to rymal, but no further than that. More buses covering smaller distances = higher frequency.

[hamiltonguy]

whats the point of having rapid transit by the airport. it is practically country out there. I can see up to rymal, but no further than that. More buses covering smaller distances = higher frequency.

1) Helps develop the airport and land around the airport.

2) Serves the Mount Hope Community

3) Provides more transfer points for Trans-Cab

[SteelTown]

Plus I think there's nearly 1,000 employees that work around the Airport currently.

[raisethehammer]

I'm assuming there will be no stops between Rymal and airport...it's more of a political decision than a supply/demand one. there used to be a bus that ran to the airport and nobody used it so it was cancelled. This is part of the city's method to create a false demand for aerotropolis, although I don't see how empty buses helps their cause, but I digress.
It's about a 10 minute drive from Rymal to the airport so that's a lot of wasted headway that could be used on the rest of the route north of Rymal. Maybe they'll do it to Rymal on the first phase and someday down the road if the airport goes anywhere they can extend the service out there.
It's a tough pill to swallow though for someone who lives downtown like me and is constantly jammed onto buses and being passed by full buses. Now we'll have nice new empty artics passing cow pastures in the country while I stand in the rain being passed by over and over.
any private business that treated it's customers like this would be out of business so fast it wouldn't be funny.

[hamiltonguy]

I'm assuming there will be no stops between Rymal and airport...it's more of a political decision than a supply/demand one. there used to be a bus that ran to the airport and nobody used it so it was cancelled. This is part of the city's method to create a false demand for aerotropolis, although I don't see how empty buses helps their cause, but I digress.
It's about a 10 minute drive from Rymal to the airport so that's a lot of wasted headway that could be used on the rest of the route north of Rymal. Maybe they'll do it to Rymal on the first phase and someday down the road if the airport goes anywhere they can extend the service out there.
It's a tough pill to swallow though for someone who lives downtown like me and is constantly jammed onto buses and being passed by full buses. Now we'll have nice new empty artics passing cow pastures in the country while I stand in the rain being passed by over and over.
any private business that treated it's customers like this would be out of business so fast it wouldn't be funny.

There is still Trans-Cab for glanbrook, plus a significant settlement at Mount Hope, plus you could add a Park and Ride at the Mountain Transit Centre.

If the Route stops before the airport it will stop at the MTC because it's easier to turn around there than at Rymal.

[mishap]

Some more changes that could be considered, still trying to restructure the mountain transit network around the A-Line.

I'm still assuming that the A-Line will start as a weekday, rush-hour-only route. I honestly don't know one way or the other, but that's how Beeline started. During the hours the A-Line is in service:

- A return of 45-Limeridge, similar to the older route, not the short-lived revival a few years back. There would be some "jogging" around the closed portions, but it's mostly doable. Some minor improvements would be needed on Upper James between Hester and the Linc. The eastern leg would serve parts of Upper Stoney Creek on its way to Elfrida, splitting the territory with 43-Stone Church. The western leg could wind its way to the Meadowlands (though it seems every bus is going that way) or it could cover the 41A portion of Mohawk, allowing more Mohawk buses to carry on to the Meadowlands.

- When there is no A-Line, 35-College uses its current two-way looping. When A-Line is running, use the Upper James/ Rymal routing only. There's already extra service to Mohawk College, and Limeridge Road is covered (above), so use some buses for the next proposal...

- A return of 32-Garth. Downtown to St. Elizabeth's Village via Beckett Drive, like the good old days. Or maybe instead of StEV, service should continue to somewhere on Twenty Road.

If A-Line hours were to match current B-Line hours (until 7:00pm weekdays), you could consider various combinations of route extensions and interlinings (32, 34, 25) to serve Twenty Road West. This would eliminate the need for Trans-Cab service in this zone Monday to Friday, as HSR service would be provided, and Trans-Cab service ends at 7:00pm anyway. Perhaps Sunday Trans-Cab service could be added, giving area residents seven-day transit service in some form.