Gore Park

[raisethehammer]

I figured that the park at the very heart of our city deserves its own discussion.
Much has been said and written about Gore Park over the years, but as a 30-year old I can safely say that it is now enjoying it's most beautiful, leafy, green period in my lifetime (I was 3 when it was massacred the first time).
Some have recently suggested we remove the grass and benches in an effort to get rid of the people.
Those who care about this fabulous centre of our city need to make our ideas and voices heard before city hall allows the mistakes of the early 80's to be repeated again.
Gore Park is my favourite part of Hamilton in all seasons.
Share your photos, ideas, likes and dislikes of this iconic park. It truly is the heart of Hamilton.

[matt602]

Our wonderful park, beautiful and full of people even during the winter after a dumping of snow. (I was actually holding up pedestrian traffic while taking this)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/Downtown%20Hamilton/winter-08006copy.jpg

[raisethehammer]

great pic. Actually, that's not a lot of people compared to how it is most days.
Today it was way busier than that.
Makes me kind of want spring, but not really since I'm a snow lover!

[matt602]

Yep that's true, it's usually much more busy. As flar as documented, it is PACKED in the summer time. There's usually people sitting all around the edges of the fountain, all the benches are in use and theres just people standing around enjoying the spray from the fountain (so awesome on those hot, muggy summers in the Hammer).

I wish they didn't get rid of those checker/chess boards they had there though. I'm not sure if it was seasonal or what, but they were nice. Sadly they never got used for their actual purpose, instead it seemed drug dealers were using them to do whatever they do and teens using them to eat on.

[raisethehammer]

those tables are in the forecourt at the McMaster downtown location on Main St now.
Nice of the BIA to give the chess/checker tables a whole 4 months before removing them.
that space in front of the Mac centre is actually quite nice too, even for Main St.
Imagine LRT rolling by out front? If you sit on one of the benches closer to the building it's pretty nice. Lots of huge trees.
Hamilton could use more actual garden areas with little fountains and stuff in our downtown area. at City hall and the Mac Centre, Bayfront Park, Victoria Park etc....

[DC83]

great pic. Actually, that's not a lot of people compared to how it is most days.
Today it was way busier than that.
Makes me kind of want spring, but not really since I'm a snow lover!

You want Spring, rth?? Then these pics will make you drool:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/DC_83/DSC01934.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/DC_83/DSC01932.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/DC_83/DSC01928.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/DC_83/DSC01937.jpg

I believe I took these late-spring '06...'ish?
EDIT: Actually, looking at the growth of the plants, it must have been mid-late summer?

[raisethehammer]

awesome!! It's such a beautiful spot. Why anyone would want to mess with the nature there is beyond me. Enhancements at this point should focus on programming, music, arts, markets, patio space, festivals etc.... we need the guys on James North to bring some of their creativity down to the Gore. Maybe the Skydragon Centre could do their Sat morning farmers market in the Gore in the nice weather.
Great pics. I can't wait to snag a coffee in the spring and sit there and watch the world go by.
I hope I don't get arrested. haha

[SteelTown]

Once the south end of King closes down for buses, which will likely happen. What should they do with King St? Remove the cobblestone and add grass? Leave the cobblestone and have it all patio space? Or half and half?

[DC83]

^^ Leave the cobblestone and add big, healthy planters full of plants that grow tall and overflow with beauty... maybe more Potatoe Vine? That's what they put in the little Blvd at the Delta Block and when it overflows onto Main/King Sts it looks GREAT!

Add historic-looking vendor booths, encourage buskers to perform. Then come up with a summertime full of GREAT festivals!

[SteelTown]

Here's the old Gore Park, before the tree massacre

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/can_m_ham_flyer_787_jamesking_19780.jpg

[DC83]

Steeltown, you're my hero!!
I've been searching ENDLESSLY for pics of downtown from the 70's-80's w/ no luck! Thank you SO much!!

I think I almost like it better NOW than then!

[SteelTown]

Go here

http://www.trolleybuses.net/ham/ham.htm

You'll find pictures of Jackson Square, Stelco tower and Standard Life building under construction.

Yea I kinda like Gore Park now than in the late 70's. Seems like now Gore Park has more shades or trees than in the 70's.

[DC83]

^^ Awesome!!! Thanksa TON, Steeltown! I think I've seen this page b4, but can't remember lots of these pics.

I like the size of the trees back then, but prefer the amount of trees we have now. Just imagine what the park till look like in 30 years (aslong as they keep the trees & grass)! haha

[raisethehammer]

yup, I think it's looking it's best now than in the past few decades. That's why I wrote that in the intro to this thread. It's beautiful right now. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the physical appearance or design of this space.
Just add in programming and a pedestrian south leg and it would be amazing.
I LOVE the old trolley buses...man, I hope we get them back. So much more efficient and quieter than new buses.

[chris k]

I beleive we should use the bus lane for sctrictly patio space as this would make it more of a destination spot and give it a nice different feel from other local cities. I could see myself sitting out there sipping an espresso, not sitting on the grass doing nothing.

[raisethehammer]

I beleive we should use the bus lane for sctrictly patio space as this would make it more of a destination spot and give it a nice different feel from other local cities. I could see myself sitting out there sipping an espresso, not sitting on the grass doing nothing.


gee, what a great idea. why don't you send that in to the Downtown BIA. :haha:

[chris k]

gee, what a great idea. why don't you send that in to the Downtown BIA. :haha:

They wouldnt let me sit on the grass, they would make me sit in my car on the newly paved Gore parking lot :sly:

[fastcarsfreedom]

Awesome 70s photo!...I love it! Back when I was really young my dad and I would stand up on the Plaza Level of JS and watch the traffic and bustle go by while my mom shopped. Note in that picture you can see the partially obstructed Holiday Inn sign and the corner of the pink marble facing on the Bank of Hamilton (CIBC) building at King/James. Note this was during the era of the "saucer" fountain.

[raisethehammer]

yea, that fountain was pretty lame. The park looks amazing right now.

[go_leafs_go02]

Looking at all those pictures, and not noticing the buses, but looking at the situations around. But Hamilton seemed alot nicer back in the 1970s than it did now, although not much seems to have changed, it just all looked fresh and new back then.

I love blast to past pictures. I'm only 20, so my memory of life and what placed looked like started probably in the mid 1990s.

thanks for that neat picture. gore park looked really really nice!

[raisethehammer]

Jackson Sq had been built in prior years and Gore Park was 'redeveloped'. You're noticing all the new concrete - new sidewalks, all the ugly 'new' street poles etc....plus, Hamilton was absolutely rolling in cash back then. Industry was booming, the economy was amazing. Sprawl hadn't yet taken over as city hall's favourite past-time. Tax money was actually spent (get ready for it) IN the city. the horror!!

[DC83]

Gore Park Enjoys Random Act of Kindness

Ken Mann
9/11/2008

Here's one to lift your spirits.

A display of generosity on Thursday, by a trio of Hamilton paramedics.

They spent part of their afternoon handing out free coffee in Gore Park, with support from Tim Hortons, as part of Random Act of Kindness Day.

Megan Bay, among the recipients of the free coffee says you've got to love Hamilton, noting that "not every city does this".

It's an event that coincides with the anniversary of the "9-11" terrorism attacks.

The paramedics adding that their random act is about demonstrating the care and support that they have for residents and visitors of Hamilton.

http://900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/story.aspx?ID=1025885

* * * * * * *

I had to re-read the title as I thought/assumed it said 'Gore Park Random Act of Violence' :s

[waughste3]

Here's the old Gore Park, before the tree massacre

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/can_m_ham_flyer_787_jamesking_19780.jpg

You can only see a corner of it, but what was that building with the Canadian flag called where the CIBC building now stands?

[raisethehammer]

awesome pic, although I must say Gore Park looks better now than it did then. The tree canopy is awesome now.
That building was the Bank of Hamilton. Then merged and changed to CIBC. CIBC tore it down to build new in the early 90's.

What I would give to see electric buses back here. Man, we made some stupid moves over the years.

[SteelTown]

Looks like marble facade as well.

[highwater]

Looks kinda like sandstone to me.

[matt602]

I miss that downtown :(

[Millstone]

I miss that downtown :(

Why?

[RePinion]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/can_m_ham_flyer_787_jamesking_19780.jpg

Wow! Look how much nicer dressed and classier the people were downtown back then. This looks like a place where serious business was actually done. The people look like proud, upright city dwellers.

The people of Hamilton have lost so much over the years, their self-respect being perhaps foremost.

[RePinion]

awesome pic, although I must say Gore Park looks better now than it did then. The tree canopy is awesome now.
That building was the Bank of Hamilton. Then merged and changed to CIBC. CIBC tore it down to build new in the early 90's.

What I would give to see electric buses back here. Man, we made some stupid moves over the years.

As much as I lament the loss of the old Bank of Hamilton building, if CIBC hadn't built Commerce Place in the 90s it is very much possible that a lot of the high end white-collar tenants might have eventually moved their operations out of the core. It is, after all, the only commercially available large scale A grade office space in the city.

[DC83]

Wow! Look how much nicer dressed and classier the people were downtown back then. This looks like a place where serious business was actually done. The people look like proud, upright city dwellers.

The people of Hamilton have lost so much over the years, their self-respect being perhaps foremost.

^^ You can tell that by looking at centimetre-tall person in poor-quality photo?

If you stood at that same corner tomorrow around the same time, I can guarantee you'll catch 'suits' in your shots. And honestly, you'll have at LEAST 3 times more people in that shot given it was daytime.

Check Page 1 of this Thread, too. You'll like the business-type people in those shots. Some are actually taller than 1cm, so you might be able to read their minds, too ;)

[RePinion]

^^ You can tell that by looking at centimetre-tall person in poor-quality photo?

If you stood at that same corner tomorrow around the same time, I can guarantee you'll catch 'suits' in your shots. And honestly, you'll have at LEAST 3 times more people in that shot given it was daytime.

Check Page 1 of this Thread, too. You'll like the business-type people in those shots. Some are actually taller than 1cm, so you might be able to read their minds, too ;)

haha not quite. I have worked VERY VERY close to that corner for years. While there is still the occasional suit to be seen (and almost without fail I am one of them) it is the preponderance of the other side of the sartorial spectrum which gets to me. Hamilton's downtown is overwhelmingly populated by just flat out slobs. It would be nice to have a CBD where you could walk to lunch with a client and not be embarrassed by 95% of the passersby.

[DC83]

^^ depends on what embarasses you. Yes there are losers that hang out infront of JS and on those damn stairs in particular (practically ruining them for anyone else who enjoys downtown), but all-in-all there is a good number of decent-'looking' people down there. I live downtown, that CIBC is my 'main branch' of sorts, so I'm also VERY familiar with our CBD area.

There are a lot of professional jobs downtown that do not require suits, such as call centres (which Downtown is full of). These workers, though not in suits, are generally dressed nice with kakhis or dress pants with maybe polos or button ups.

It's when you get further East on King that you start to notice the slobs (besides the obvi JS Stairs).

So lets come up with a solution, or an Action Plan (since you're a business person) as to how we as an online community (including yourself, RePinion) can change this perception. What will it take?
-More police pressence?
-Upgrading JS's entrance and getting rid of those stairs
-Creating a CBD Dress Code?

What's your solution (besides bringing in more white collar jobs) that we, together, can change or start a process for change?

[geoff's two cents]

To start, the JS entrance needs a renovation, and something needs to be done about the upper park area to make those stairs useful for something other than just sitting. I'd propose making space for a restaurant with outdoor patio out there that is visible from the ground.

I don't actually mind JS that much - I just wish it had more and better stores. For starters, though, that entrance has got to go.

[RePinion]

To put it bluntly, I would not be embarrassed by, well, not-bums.

But unfortunately your question has no easy answer. Obviously the downtown, and the city generally, would greatly benefit from more high-paying white collar jobs downtown. But how do you get them there? The question has been hashed out time and time again.

I don't profess to know the answer. I have some ideas, like everyone else, but obviously no meaningful way to implement them.

But it's not just the lack of jobs which gets to me, but the lax attitude that even business professionals have in Hamilton. When I worked in Hamilton I had colleagues who would meet important clients in a (tucked-in) golf shirt or at best an oxford without a tie. Stuff like that is common practice throughout Hamilton, but would simply be unacceptable in Toronto or any other business minded city (and simply blasphemous somewhere like London or New York). It projects an image of laxity and indifference, which could ultimately hurt investment. Thus, my concern is more than anything with the psychology of Hamiltonians. That is why I referred to the loss of self-respect in the post above.

Obviously Hamilton is not in the league of the cities I mention above (although in some things it doesn't hurt to set your aim unrealistically high), but in terms of standards of business professionalism it is consistently outdone even by smaller communities like London (Ontario) and Kitchener-Waterloo.

[SteelTown]

I've been told in the past, about 6 months ago, to "dress down" lol. I dress too good that it makes others feel intimidated.

[DC83]

^^ One could argue that the lax attitude of Hamiltonians is what makes this place so great.

For example, when I'm walking up James St I never feel rushed. However, when I'm walking up Bay from Union to Queen, I feel like I'm in a herd of gazels. Ever try going INTO Union @ 8am!? Chaos.

Also, this lax attitude is what makes Hamiltonians so friendly. Torontonians are too busy to care about their fellow neighbours.

My brother is also a business person who has worked out of Hamilton, Calgary and now Toronto. He has also professed his love for working in Hamilton over Calgary, as Calgary business people (according to him) are so busy trying to be like Toronto that they are too stressed out.
However, he has admitted to me that it was hard for him to find a place to bring clients to Lunch.

So besides more white-collar jobs (which you and I cannot bring to Hamilton), how can we fix this style problem downtown? I'm not asking to be sneaky or anything, I'm seriously fishing for ideas.

This forum was set up so we can all share ideas to make Hamilton better.

[RePinion]

I've been told in the past, about 6 months ago, to "dress down" lol. I dress too good that it makes others feel intimidated.

I used to get this when I first started working in Hamilton. People want to dress like slobs and you make them feel guilty about it. I never used to believe the mantra that a lax approach to "self-presentation" ultimately results in a lax approach to performance, but I have seen this platitude proven in practice all too often.

I don't know what you do for a living, but for people like lawyers and bankers it is very important that you take what you do relatively seriously or, unless you are a genuine maverick or eccentric genius, your performance inevitably declines. A lot of people end up working in Hamilton office jobs because they couldn't constantly keep on game in Toronto. It's sad but very, very true.

There are of course some serious professionals and businesspeople in Hamilton, but in my experience they are the exception.

[RePinion]

^^ One could argue that the lax attitude of Hamiltonians is what makes this place so great.

For example, when I'm walking up James St I never feel rushed. However, when I'm walking up Bay from Union to Queen, I feel like I'm in a herd of gazels. Ever try going INTO Union @ 8am!? Chaos.

But this is the problem! Why would major businesses want to set up operations in a city where the attitude is lax?

Big business is all about the rush. It is all about being competitive and striving to beat the other. That is one reason why Calgary's economy is growing so rapidly vis-a-vis Toronto's -- because they are deliberately trying to outdo them!

If the business "leaders" at the Hamilton Economic Summit resolved on anything, it should have been to cultivate a culture of competition and professionalism, something the Hamilton business community is sorely in need of.

Saying laxity is a good thing is really just complacency.

[SteelTown]

I work at a large research lab, I'm the program assistant. My job is spilt into two parts, lab technician and administrator stuff. As you can imagine being the assistant of a lab I’m the one where people usually see first before talking to the upper managers. So I try to look professional. But at the same time I work with my co-workers that typically will wear jeans and a t-shirt. So instead of wearing a blazer I’d have to wear a cardigan instead.

I'm in my 20s and most of the people I work with is in their 40s or 50s so it's awkward, I remember one time during a meeting I said something like "while that's just bananas" and everyone looked at me weird...."oh bananas is like saying that's crazy". haha

[highwater]

Next time try 'zany' or 'madcap'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEcSHOuGPt4

[raisethehammer]

interesting discussion, although I'm downtown everyday and there are a ton of suits. Anyone wishing to state otherwise is flat-out wrong.
Sure, more jobs downtown would be nice, but today's downtown is far busier than the one in that picture. JS will slowly come back, as are the surrounding main streets. I think our downtown is positioned better now than it's been for several decades.

[RePinion]

interesting discussion, although I'm downtown everyday and there are a ton of suits. Anyone wishing to state otherwise is flat-out wrong.
Sure, more jobs downtown would be nice, but today's downtown is far busier than the one in that picture. JS will slowly come back, as are the surrounding main streets. I think our downtown is positioned better now than it's been for several decades.

Flat out wrong? How can you even say this about a purely anecdotal observation? I'm sorry, but that remark just sounds plain stupid. What is the standard by which you purport to measure the number of people in suits in the downtown?


In any case, I wonder if you have actually ever spent a signficant amount of time in a truly thriving CBD? I question whether you would still think there are a "ton of suits" in Hamilton's core if you had. Anyway, this is a rather moronic thing to be debating at length.

As for comparing the downtown of the picture to the downtown of present day reality, who even knows at one time of day that picture was taken? It really makes no sense to compare. My comparison was not intended to be a serious one, but I do think it is manifestly clear that the people in the picture are better dressed than your average downtown denizen today.

[DC83]

As for comparing the downtown of the picture to the downtown of present day reality, who even knows at one time of day that picture was taken? It really makes no sense to compare. My comparison was not intended to be a serious one, but I do think it is manifestly clear that the people in the picture are better dressed than your average downtown denizen today.

I don't even know how you can tell what they're wearing. And what if there are stains? or holes? Or frays? I think your observation that people in that late-70's photo are dressed more business-like than people at that intersection today is false.

All you've done so far is complain about it... be proactive! Come up with a solution! Write a letter to the Spec, maybe people will read it and say, "Wow, maybe I SHOULD wear a tie today".

I don't understand how you can dislike those who take a 'lax approach' to dressing in the CBD, but you're seeming to be doing the same re: any solutions "Well maybe someone else will write a letter. Hopefully someone else emails EcDev Hamilton. Somone Else... Someone Else..."

We didn't steer the City towards LRT by sitting on our hands and saying, "Gee I sure hope the City makes the right decision this time..."

[FairHamilton]

I think there has been a general trend to 'dress down' in general over the years.

IMO, there is a lower percentage of people who wear a suit to the office today, than 30 years ago. Not less people, but a lower percentage of people.

Heck, we had 'beach August' at the office, and September 2nd was my first time wearing socks in over a month........

That being said those who aren't at work also dress in a less professional manner, then those of 30 years ago as well.

Heck, at one time people used to dress up to get on an airplane, bus, or train......

[DC83]

^^ Good point, FairHamilton.

I remember one time my greay uncle giving me a lecture about how jeans were for the poor in his day, and if you didn't have 'slacks' you got bugged.
I never thought to think of where fashion has gone in the last 30-or-so years.

so lets end this discussion, go to BIG & TALL Shop and buy us a suit! Altho I'm not 'big' or 'tall'... maybe I'll check out Bill Newman's ;)

[RePinion]

I don't even know how you can tell what they're wearing. And what if there are stains? or holes? Or frays? I think your observation that people in that late-70's photo are dressed more business-like than people at that intersection today is false.

It might very well be false. It was, as you say, simply an observation. However, given the fact that the standards for business attire were higher across the board in that era, I don't think the inference I seek to draw is altogether irrational (in fact, I think it is quite sound).

But moving on ...


All you've done so far is complain about it... be proactive! Come up with a solution! Write a letter to the Spec, maybe people will read it and say, "Wow, maybe I SHOULD wear a tie today".

I don't understand how you can dislike those who take a 'lax approach' to dressing in the CBD, but you're seeming to be doing the same re: any solutions "Well maybe someone else will write a letter. Hopefully someone else emails EcDev Hamilton. Somone Else... Someone Else..."

We didn't steer the City towards LRT by sitting on our hands and saying, "Gee I sure hope the City makes the right decision this time..."

It is evident that you miss the point of my critique. My argument wasn't really about the lax standard of dress in downtown Hamilton, but rather about the lax psychology of Hamiltonians generally, but particularly those in its business community.

It is extremely presumptuous of you to claim that I am not acting on my opinions. What the hell do you know about me? How dare you make such hollow, baseless accusations?

This is a discussion forum, a sounding board for opinions and ideas, and yes a place to bitch and complain as well. Action doesn't get taken here. Obviously the first step towards the taking of action, however, is the bringing to light of a problem.

How do you know what I do in my real life?

In my professional life in Hamilton I always sought to maintain a standard well above the norm for the city, and encouraged my colleagues and juniors to do the same. I'm obviously not going to reveal my identity on here, but since I started practising in Hamilton I've been heavily involved in professional standards programs through the HLA, programs to attract (and keep) talented young lawyers in Hamilton, and marketing outreach programs through the HLA and CoC to raise the awareness of Hamilton firms and businesses to potential clients who would normally just bypass this city altogether. I don't mean to sound derisive, but this alone probably amounts to a greater actual contribution to the well-being of the city than you will ever singlehandedly make.

[RePinion]

I think there has been a general trend to 'dress down' in general over the years.

IMO, there is a lower percentage of people who wear a suit to the office today, than 30 years ago. Not less people, but a lower percentage of people.


I generally agree, but there has been a marked return to formal business attire in some sectors of the economy over the last decade. I remember working on Bay Street in the 90s when even some the stodgiest whiteshoe firms started experimenting with "business casual". Needless to say, it didn't survive long. As soon as the economy dipped, most of these dress down policies were scrapped.

In major business centres, the general rule nowadays is suit (and probably tie) for those who work in areas like law and finance. People working at a professional level (unless you're too high up to be criticized) almost always dress up. The lower down the chain you go, the less stringent the standards are. But even support and admin level workers who might come into contact with clients are expected to dress to a high level.

As I have mentioned before, I personally believe that the effort you put into your personal appearance can also impact or at least reflect how seriously you take your work. This is why I think it is important for Hamilton firms and companies to insist on a higher standard of dress for their employees (and particularly for their executives and professionals) -- to at least project the image that we are not a bum-town but rather a serious competitor.

[DC83]

In my professional life in Hamilton I always sought to maintain a standard well above the norm for the city, and encouraged my colleagues and juniors to do the same. I'm obviously not going to reveal my identity on here, but since I started practising in Hamilton I've been heavily involved in professional standards programs through the HLA, programs to attract (and keep) talented young lawyers in Hamilton, and marketing outreach programs through the HLA and CoC to raise the awareness of Hamilton firms and businesses to potential clients who would normally just bypass this city altogether. I don't mean to sound derisive, but this alone probably amounts to a greater actual contribution to the well-being of the city than you will ever singlehandedly make.


^^ Great stuff, but how does that help our CBD look more 'professional'?

What I was trying to say was that Hamiltonians (or North Americans in general) are so quick to critique, but never want to do anything about it.

I don't know you, you're right. I don't really care to, to be honest. All I read was someone bitching about Hamilton and showing no interest in being a solution to the problem that affects them so deeply. You've responded by saying you encourage people around you to dress nice. That's all fine, but that's what, a couple people?

Here's an idea: Since you're involved with the Hamilton Business Community, why don't you guys come up with a fashion-type event/festival. Montreal, as an example, has the White Party (Bal en Blanc) every Spring. They encourage everyone to wear white for a week, and all the stores along Rue St Catherine design their window displays based on this event.
Get your business buddies together and come up with a similar plan, but maybe with suits? ties? Whatever!

There you go. An Idea... and surprise, someone else came up with it!

[RePinion]

I don't know you, you're right. I don't really care to, to be honest.

LOL I can assure you the feeling is mutual.

[RePinion]

A fashion show -- is that really your suggestion? Yes, I guess that is an idea, strictly speaking ...

Actually there are some business dress fashion shows that have been held in Hamilton. The Hamilton club occassionally has one and a major firm in the city held one just recently for the benefit of articling students in the city ... I can't see that these things make any impact.

People know what they're supposed to be wearing, they just don't care, and they know that their colleague or boss doesn't care either, so the laxity just perpetuates.

As I implied in a post above, you need wide-ranging resolutions by people in the business culture (i.e. to be and look more competitive) before anything will change (and even then, I wonder if anything would). An agreement by business leaders in the city to enforce minimal dress codes in the workplace would be a very good start, but would be very difficult to achieve. Getting Hamilton business people together and then, god forbid, getting them to actually agree on something (especially a commitment that will actually require them to do some work) is harder than herding cats.

[DC83]

A fashion show -- is that really your suggestion? Yes, I guess that is an idea, strictly speaking ...

Actually there are some business dress fashion shows that have been held in Hamilton. The Hamilton club occassionally has one and a major firm in the city held one just recently for the benefit of articling students in the city ... I can't see that these things make any impact.

People know what they're supposed to be wearing, they just don't care, and they know that their colleague or boss doesn't care either, so the laxity just perpetuates.

As I implied in a post above, you need wide-ranging resolutions by people in the business culture (i.e. to be and look more competitive) before anything will change (and even then, I wonder if anything would). An agreement by business leaders in the city to enforce minimal dress codes in the workplace would be a very good start, but would be very difficult to achieve. Getting Hamilton business people together and then, god forbid, getting them to actually agree on something (especially a commitment that will actually require them to do some work) is harder than herding cats.

You're completely missing my point. It's great that a couple dozen business people get together and dress up once a year and whatnot, but it's a completely different game when you get the WHOLE CITY involved such as the White Party in Montreal.

This thread has been derailed, so I'm ending this. Lets get back onto the subject of Gore Park.

It's obvious who's on here to create solutions, and who's on here to squelch!

[raisethehammer]

I was just at the G&G in Hess Village (4:45pm, Friday).
Of the 67 people at the patio there and across the street at KOI/Sizzle, 14 were NOT wearing suits/ties.
This is common, as I'm in Hess regularly. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they didn't all take an early GO Train from TO and arrive in the Village at 4:30 on a Friday. Especially since this is a common scene after work all summer long.
Obviously there are more suits in TO or NYC, but you said that 95% of people were embarrassing slobs. Sounds like we're in two different cities.

And yes, dress standards have dropped over the years...of course everyone looked better back then. Styles were way better. Todays modern style is such crap. Give me anything prior to 1980's any day of the week.

[adam]

We've seen a few examples of people who have moved away from a city in the past and feel the need to put it down to justify their original decision. Its self-destructive behaviour that ends up affecting everybody involved.

If you are looking for a London or NYC, then you are looking in the wrong place.

[SteelTown]

Generally when the economy is doing well people tend to dress down. When the economy gets rough people dress up.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Sorry I missed this thread earlier--it's one of the more interesting ones I've read in awhile. Enjoyed the photo of Gore Park of course--I believe we've discussed it previously--with a close eye you can see the cursive "Holiday Inn" signage on what is now the Crowne Plaza.

Bank of Hamilton was a beautiful building--and it's demolition was a loss to the fabric of downtown--it anchored what was once a wall of early "skyscrapers" along James between King and Main. Nonetheless, the Class A space of Commerce Place was desperately needed--and CIBC brought their SW Ontario regional offices to the site. I may be incorrect--but I believe the original B of H building was red sandstone--not sure. Several floors were added to on top of the building at some point afterward--and the lower levels were covered in pink marble at some point in the 1950s or 60s during a "modernization".

I really enjoyed reading the posts about dress and attitude. While I don't find "business casual" offensive--it's introduction really started us downhill on a slippery slope. I remember going to the bank with my folks as a kid--everything was formal, crisp, business-like--now when you go to a bank branch it's a free-for-all. I'm not sure that the trend of lousy/sloppy dress is exclusive to Hamilton--but you certainly see less of it in the larger centers. Overall there is a lack of importance placed on simply "looking good" whether it's for work or non-work purposes. Even as someone who wears a uniform to work everyday, I'm one of the few (in my unscientific poll) of my co-workers who makes sure the thing is pressed and there's a bit of polish on the boots. Even on a Saturday it would be nice to see some people make an effort--a little less of the Zubaz pants/Coors Light tank top combos.

Glad someone mentioned Montreal--ever go downtown there on a weekday morning? It's amazing--EVERYONE looks good, regardless of gender, age, size or occupation. Stand in one of the train stations and the women coming in on the AMT trains look like they walked out of a magazine...seriously.

[RePinion]

You're completely missing my point. It's great that a couple dozen business people get together and dress up once a year and whatnot, but it's a completely different game when you get the WHOLE CITY involved such as the White Party in Montreal.

This thread has been derailed, so I'm ending this. Lets get back onto the subject of Gore Park.

It's obvious who's on here to create solutions, and who's on here to squelch!

Isn't the white party/bal en blanc just a big rave essentially? Anyway, Montrealers don't really need to be encouraged to dress well as they have always been the most stylish people in the nation by far.

As for your remark re squelching: pointing out what one believes to be a problem or shortcoming is not tantamount to squelching. Not even close. Squelching is by definition a form of suppression. The fact that I don't have a ready solution to the problem I identify is not squelching at all (and it is extremely unreasonable of you to demand that I have such a solution ready-to-hand).

To the people who say "don't hold Hamilton to the standard of London or New York". Well, that is indeed a form of squelching.

Too often this forum devolves into unproductive Hamilton apologism.

[rousseau]

Too often this forum devolves into unproductive Hamilton apologism.
This is true.

[adam]

To the people who say "don't hold Hamilton to the standard of London or New York". Well, that is indeed a form of squelching.

Too often this forum devolves into unproductive Hamilton apologism.

This might come as a shock to you, but I would rather live in Hamilton than London or NYC. My standard of living is higher here. I can escape to great natural surroundings easily, not be choked by overcrowded population, have clean drinking water, I can be a part of a tight knit community, children can get a great public education, etc, etc, etc... I could go on if you want. Hamilton is exactly where I want to live. I'm here because I chose to be here.


Here is my above comment posted again, as I stand by it...
If you are looking for a London or NYC, then you are looking in the wrong place.

[omro]

This might come as a shock to you, but I would rather live in Hamilton than London or NYC. My standard of living is higher here. I can escape to great natural surroundings easily, not be choked by overcrowded population, have clean drinking water, I can be a part of a tight knit community, children can get a great public education, etc, etc, etc... I could go on if you want. Hamilton is exactly where I want to live. I'm here because I chose to be here.

That's why I'm planning to move there next year :) Well, without the children part :haha:

But I am choosing to live there. See the Moving to Hamilton thread. (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=153676)