SkyTrain's Two Forgotten Future Ghost Stations

[finalcoolman]

I realized I have little tidbits of knowledge on our SkyTrain system, that seem to have been forgotten over time, so I will attempt to try and put them back into the public domain. So I will start with this.

There are two design provisions for future stations on our existing SkyTrain systems. One on the Millenium Line, and one on the Expo Line.

The Millenium Line station which is somewhat well known is called Woodlands was to support a large scale combined residential and health care development in the area. However, as this development was cancelled, so were any plans to construct this station. What is NOT well known is the actual location of the station. Now there has been debate that the station being underground just east of Columbia, in the New Westminister tunnel, there are no visable provisions for any kind of platform in the tunnel. Well thats because that is a miscomprehension. The (ghost) station is actually not underground. In fact it is an at grade station located at the Eastern tunnel portal, just outside the tunnel. At the Front Street special structure, there is a small at grade portion, before the tunnel portal. Those concrete setbacks on both sides of the guideway are the foundations for side configuration platforms. Obviously its not 80 meters worth from the tunnel portal to the end of the at grade section. The remaining length of platform and station will jut over the ridge above Front street. So it will be a 2/3rds at grade and 1/3 elevated station. Or maybe 1/2 and 1/2 with the new longer 100m+ platforms.

The second long forgotten future station (and this one is really a ghost station cause I do not think anyone besides the original planners and engineers knows about) is on the Expo Line. It is located between Joyce and Patterson stations. It is Boundary station. It was provisioned as a future station in part because at the time of Expo Line planning and design, the newly constructed BC Tel headquarters which was completed in the late 70s, was seen as the first in major redevelopment of the Boundary and Kingsway area. However "The Boot" was never followed by other massive buildings, and those old buildings in the area remain to this day. However with our red hot real estate markets, I could see redevelopment happening, and those old buildings finally being torn down to make way for something modern to go along with the somewhat modern Telus HQ. Thousands of employees work at the Telus headquarters alone, a few more buildings like that, and you would have the justification for a station. Will we then see a Boundary Station? I don't know. I don't even think Translink knows about it, since the people that planned and designed it are probably long gone and their plans long forgotten.

[officedweller]

Here's a map of the Woodlands Station location from the Civitas website. I'm surprised that New Westminster hasn't pushed for the station to be built to serve the Victoria Hill community nearby. Maybe in time.

http://www.civitasdesign.com/urban2.html
http://www.civitasdesign.com/projects/rapidlndcp.JPG

Interesting about the Boundary Road Station location. I had heard that BC Tel had refused to pitch in to pay for the station, so it wasn't built. I didn't know that there's a level section of track that can accommodate a station there, but it looks like even the part of the guideway that spans Kingsway (as opposed to Boundary) is level enough for a station.

[Dave2]

I've seen mention of a "Grandview" station somewhere between Commercial and Renfrew in an old planning document.

[cornholio]

I know I saw plans for Patterson station being over Kingsway instead. Later it got moved to Patterson(i do remeber hearing that there were some problems with the new telus building and money for the station, etc.) Personally I would love a station at Boundary rd. Not sure exactly where the level section is though, it would be nice if it were right behind the Telus building with a exit at Boundary rd and a exit at Kingsway since Kingsway could use a station for people transferring to the #19?. Also its unfortunate that they didnt provide for a future station in the False creek flats on the Expo line, i mean it still wouldn't be very useful but I think we are getting closer and closer to the time when false creek is going to exploded in growth(hopefully the city can be more creative with the land there and zoning having two sky train lines cutting through it and a planned street car running to vcc).

[officedweller]

I've seen mention of a "Grandview" station somewhere between Commercial and Renfrew in an old planning document.

Yeah that was going to be at Nanaimo in the Grandview Cut (under the bridge). It was axed because of the proximity of Nanaimo Station on the Expo Line. There was talk of it being a future station at one point, but in the end I think it was just deleted.

[alta-bc]

I've heard about a possible future station between Main and Broadway on the Expo Line, somewhere near the Home Depot.

[deasine]

That would be around Clark or the Grandview Viaduct (is it Grandview Viaduct or Terminal Viaduct... can't remember)... I wouldn't say it's really needed at the moment, but it would be nice if tied with VCC/Clark as it would relieve the some of the congestion at Commercial and Broadway.

[paradigm4]

That would be around Clark or the Grandview Viaduct (is it Grandview Viaduct or Terminal Viaduct... can't remember)... I wouldn't say it's really needed at the moment, but it would be nice if tied with VCC/Clark as it would relieve the some of the congestion at Commercial and Broadway.

I think once the MLine attaches up to the Canada Line, we will see a drastic reduction of the congestion at Broadway. People will have another choice. That makes a lot more sense then putting in a station between that stretch. Certainly not for a long time - there's absolutely nothing in the False Creek Flats to warrant it.

And the next big place won't be the flats, it'll be the DTES.

[officedweller]

And the next big place won't be the flats, it'll be the DTES.

Gastown Station anyone?
I've always thought that a Gastown Station near Gassy Jack Square (is that the name?) could also provide handicapped access (centre platform with access via overpass with elevator acess) across the tracks to Portside Park...

[mooks28]

Gastown Station anyone?
I've always thought that a Gastown Station near Gassy Jack Square (is that the name?) could also provide handicapped access (centre platform with access via overpass with elevator acess) across the tracks to Portside Park...

What an awesome idea. Is there the space for it, though?

[mr.x]

great info, thx for posting.

not sure about a Boundary Station, personally i think there would be too many stations.

[Dave2]

Sure, make Gassy Jack station the last station before turning north; heading for Lonsdale.... too bad the Canada Line can't do that... but think of it, North Vancouver only 2-3 minutes from downtown instead of 12 minutes by SeaBus, if this was New York or Boston it would have been done years ago.

No need for a Clark Drive station on the Expo line IMHO; we already have VCC Clark, and that Broadway-Main stretch is one of the nicest stretches of the Expo Line; commuters do not want to stop, they want to *go*, despite what certain advocates of LRT with stops every 500 metres would like us to believe.

[mr.x]

Sure, make Gassy Jack station the last station before turning north; heading for Lonsdale.... too bad the Canada Line can't do that... but think of it, North Vancouver only 2-3 minutes from downtown instead of 12 minutes by SeaBus, if this was New York or Boston it would have been done years ago.

No need for a Clark Drive station on the Expo line IMHO; we already have VCC Clark, and that Broadway-Main stretch is one of the nicest stretches of the Expo Line; commuters do not want to stop, they want to *go*, despite what certain advocates of LRT with stops every 500 metres would like us to believe.

i have the exact same sentiment. the same can be said with our existing bus system, way too many stops. and personally, i don't think the 56th Avenue future station for the Canada Line should be built.

[Jacques]

Gastown Station anyone?
I've always thought that a Gastown Station near Gassy Jack Square (is that the name?) could also provide handicapped access (centre platform with access via overpass with elevator access) across the tracks to Portside Park...

that would be and it is a great idea, however they have planned for a trolley system going down Quebec, followed trough Columbia then unto Cordova west to Waterfront station, so the thought is nice I wouldn't hold my breath, unless in the future they would plan for a lien going east on Hasting, then I could certainly see Pigeon park being turn into a Station, yet that is decades way and I maybe dead before it can come to fruition.
Also a line going east from Waterfront past Burnaby north, would be a true benefit to a affluent traffic at Boundery exchange.
I do not think they visioned anything for the DTES and Beyond when they considered translink expansion few years back and the same remains as of this day, the hasting corridor was left on floor long ago

[Dave2]

OTOH, the future station at 33rd would provide access to QE Park and Nat Bailey; but you're right, at 57th there are some towers, but withought a further increase in density, it would just be another 29th Ave, without the bus routes

[officedweller]

unless in the future they would plan for a lien going east on Hasting, then I could certainly see Pigeon park being turn into a Station, yet that is decades way and I maybe dead before it can come to fruition.

As mentioned by Dave 2 - I could more see it as a part of a North Shore line crossing near Second Narrows.

Not sure what the southern most tracks are used for - whether they are through tracks for WCE or storage for WCE.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2007/vch2007_691.jpg

You can see the Expo Line tail tracks here:
http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2006/vch2006_286.jpg

[deasine]

i have the exact same sentiment. the same can be said with our existing bus system, way too many stops. and personally, i don't think the 56th Avenue future station for the Canada Line should be built.

Yeah I don't want it either... I think that station would probably be under used, even though there is a lot of ppl in the area.

But I'm sure afterschool it would be packed - ppl from church hill secondary

[bugsy]

unless in the future they would plan for a lien going east on Hasting

Speaking of which, at Stadium-Chinatown Station, there's that empty third track and platform. Kind of like Lougheed Town Centre Station's spur tracks I guess. Can't they start an expansion down Hastings replacing the 135 bus this way?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Stadium-chinatown-tracks.jpg

[officedweller]

Speaking of which, at Stadium-Chinatown Station, there's that empty third track and platform. Kind of like Lougheed Town Centre Station's spur tracks I guess. Can't they start an expansion down Hastings replacing the 135 bus this way?

It's not really the same. The Stadium Station siding was used during Expo 86 for passengers to/from Canada Place without interrupting revenue service on the main platform (the monorail platform was on the other side of the that third platform).
The Lougheed siding has two switches that lead to unbuilt spurs (as well as merging back).
The Stadium Station spur merges back into the line and would also be on the wrong side of the station to branch out to Hastings (even if modified to branch off).

[David]

sweet idea though! haha

[Dave2]

They could have used that bay platform at Stadium a few years ago; i think it was when they were putting the new platform edge yellow stuff into place . They were running trains King George-Stadium, and Stadium-Waterfront. Of course, they had passengers disembarking at Stadium and passengers embarking at the same place, without changing the station dwell time; well of course all hell broke loose. It took ages for passengers to alight, and when it came time for e/b passengers to board, the doors closed creating an even larger crowd to block the next train that arrived.

If I was in charge, I'd have had the incoming passengers disembark at the bay platform, then moved the train to the regular e/b platform.

Of course, anyone who could not climb stairs could remain on the train until it got to the main platform.

[deasine]

Speaking of which, at Stadium-Chinatown Station, there's that empty third track and platform. Kind of like Lougheed Town Centre Station's spur tracks I guess. Can't they start an expansion down Hastings replacing the 135 bus this way?



Why not extend the E/M-Lines from Waterfront back underground...

[officedweller]

Yes, that would be the logical means of doing so.

[SpongeG]

Sure, make Gassy Jack station the last station before turning north; heading for Lonsdale.... too bad the Canada Line can't do that... but think of it, North Vancouver only 2-3 minutes from downtown instead of 12 minutes by SeaBus, if this was New York or Boston it would have been done years ago.

No need for a Clark Drive station on the Expo line IMHO; we already have VCC Clark, and that Broadway-Main stretch is one of the nicest stretches of the Expo Line; commuters do not want to stop, they want to *go*, despite what certain advocates of LRT with stops every 500 metres would like us to believe.

but there is no pedestrian access from VCC to the home depot side

they need some kind of pedestrian overpass or a trail - something - my friend worked near that home depot and was frustrated he couldn't get to VCC

[SFUVancouver]

Now this is a ghost station!

The City Hall subway station in New York City was closed off for many decades and basically forgotten. It is open for tours now. I think it is stunning.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/8362/cityhallepsteincurveah7.jpg

[officedweller]

but there is no pedestrian access from VCC to the home depot side

they need some kind of pedestrian overpass or a trail - something - my friend worked near that home depot and was frustrated he couldn't get to VCC

There is a roughed-in (or former?) street there - the one that exits from the Home Depot. Personally I don't see why they can't open it up if railway crossing arms are installed (2 crossings of 2 tracks each) - but I guess no one wants to pay for them. I suppose it also depends whether BNSF parks trains across the roadway ROW. I know that the passengers trains use that siding to turnaround so that they back into the station.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2007/vch2007_416.jpg

[bugsy]

It's not really the same. The Stadium Station siding was used during Expo 86 for passengers to/from Canada Place without interrupting revenue service on the main platform (the monorail platform was on the other side of the that third platform).
The Lougheed siding has two switches that lead to unbuilt spurs (as well as merging back).
The Stadium Station spur merges back into the line and would also be on the wrong side of the station to branch out to Hastings (even if modified to branch off).

Oh wow, so that's what it was used for.

[officedweller]

Yeah, the Canada Place shuttles were interlined with revenue service. They would exit the third platform eastwards, switch tracks at the switch before the "dip" and reverse direction to head to Canada Place. The Waterfront Station platform had a chain link fence down the middle - one side led to the Howe Street exit which was within Expo fairgrounds and the other side led to the CP Station exit which was for revenue service (this was before the Waterfront Centre was built).

[clooless]

but there is no pedestrian access from VCC to the home depot side

they need some kind of pedestrian overpass or a trail - something - my friend worked near that home depot and was frustrated he couldn't get to VCC

This is going to sound crazy, but can't you just walk across the tracks to VCC from Home Depot? I am pretty sure I did this a few years ago.

[VanExPat]

There was a trail through the weeds next to the tracks that you could take all the way through. Technically it was trespassing, but lots of people in the neighbourhood used the path. Now it looks like CN/BNSF has shored up the tracks with big concrete blocks to discourage trespassing. Last time I looked from the expo line a thriving crackhead shantytown was developing now that theres no more through traffic.

oh, and whenever CN cops were low on tickets they would camp out and issue trespassing tickets to anyone cutting through.

[CPE]

I think that Boundary Station wouldn't even be near Boundary. The track is sloped over Boundary road, and by the time the track levels out and the track switches are cleared, you are very close to Joyce Station. There is a flat section of track just north of where the guideway crosses Kingsway. I always wondered why they made the guideway so high in that area, followed by a sudden slope towards Joyce. Now I know.:tup:

[Jacques]

This is going to sound crazy, but can't you just walk across the tracks to VCC from Home Depot? I am pretty sure I did this a few years ago.

Not anymore last summer I had to jump over a huge cement barrier erected on the north side of the train tracks, I think it was stupid not to open a roadway to home depot, but it doesn't matter anymore due that there is one a Cambie opening soon easier access

[Deez]

Now this is a ghost station!

The City Hall subway station in New York City was closed off for many decades and basically forgotten. It is open for tours now. I think it is stunning.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/8362/cityhallepsteincurveah7.jpg


The architecture and narrow-looking gauge had me thinking this was the haunted house ride at Disney World...

[SpongeG]

This is going to sound crazy, but can't you just walk across the tracks to VCC from Home Depot? I am pretty sure I did this a few years ago.

no its fenced and gated with barbwire

people scale the fence to do so but they do not want people going that way i guess

[clooless]

no its fenced and gated with barbwire

people scale the fence to do so but they do not want people going that way i guess

I am pretty sure I walked this route a few years ago, but it was night. There were no gates/concrete barriers at that time. Now that they've built fences/barriers it would be nice if the city just built a pedestrian overpass and was done with it. Of course, that costs money.

[officedweller]

The Flats transportation plan shows it as a future road or at least part of the greenway (if Glen Dr. doesn't go all the way to Home Depot)

http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/fcflats/pdf/mvmnttomorrow.pdf

Index:
http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/fcflats/index.htm

[dreambrother808]

I am pretty sure I walked this route a few years ago, but it was night. There were no gates/concrete barriers at that time. Now that they've built fences/barriers it would be nice if the city just built a pedestrian overpass and was done with it. Of course, that costs money.

yeah, i go to the home depot beside gilmore station sometimes, even though i live much closer to the terminal one, just because i don't have to walk so far from transit.

[flight_from_kamakura]

can't believe i missed this thread.

anyway, on woodlands station: this is cool, it would make the point at which the line resurfaces much more attractive and it could really spur redevelopment in that area (though i imagine that with everything else going on, this will take longer).

boundary station, now that's neat, this could be a great zone for new development. thanks for the info on those.

[SpikePhanta]

wow a Boundary Station wouldve probably been used more than patterson station.

[red-paladin]

I sent Translink a letter asking them what are the possible locations for future stations. This is what they told me:

Hi (red-paladin),



Sorry for the delay in responding to your email – I just received it as it was circulated rather widely given the involvement of different staff for the different lines…



Line by line, on the Canada Line:

· Capstan Way station came very close to being constructed but it was contingent on a substantial contribution from the developer of an adjacent property and the economic downtown destroyed the economics of the project so it is not currently proceeding but is likely to come back.

· YVR3 was planned to support an expanded airport terminal - if the Airport Authority proceeds with that expansion, the station would proceed as well. The Airport Authority’s strategic plan may have more detail on it.

· 33rd and 57th Avenue stations would only be built with a large developer contribution, should future land use plans support developments of the necessary scale. 33rd would be a particular challenge given the adjacency to Queen Elizabeth Park.

On the Expo Line, the geometry allowed for future stations at:

· Clark Drive

· Kingsway (E of Boundary Rd)



These could still be built if desired.



The section along Stewardson Way has excessive gradients (1.4% and greater, when SkyTrain stations need to be on a 0.5% grade or less) as well as very few tangent (straight) track sections of sufficient length.



On the Millennium Line, the geometry only allows for a future station at Woodlands – most of the line has excessive gradients and curvatures between the original stations. Where flat and straight sections exist, they are often too close to existing stations to be of consideration (e.g, approx 500 m E of Commercial-Broadway station).



Hope this assists, let me know if you have questions.



________________________________________________
Ian Fisher, Project Planner, Project Planning
TransLink (South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority)
1600 - 4720 Kingsway, Burnaby BC V5H 4N2 Canada
Tel 604.453.3058 Fax 604.453.4697
ian.fisher@translink.ca www.translink.ca

[SFUVancouver]

That was a very nice and informative reply letter. Thanks for sharing it.

[invisibleairwaves]

Woodlands Station would be nice, if only because it would make entering the tunnel a lot easier on the eardrums.

[Millennium2002]

I wonder... is it possible to build a Trout Lake station? Looks from Google Maps Street View can be deceiving, but the gradient doesn't seem to be very steep and there isn't a huge curvature.

[SpikePhanta]

I wonder... is it possible to build a Trout Lake station? Looks from Google Maps Street View can be deceiving, but the gradient doesn't seem to be very steep and there isn't a huge curvature.

The walk from nanaimo isnt that long to trout lake, so i dnt think it would be needed

[officedweller]

When the M-Line was being designed, a "future station" was considered for Nanaimo, but it was deleted (i.e. no provision for a future station) because Nanaimo Station on the Expo Line is closeby, as is Broadway & Commercial.

[SpikePhanta]

Speaking about skytrain stations, in your opinions which stations do you think is very underused?

I would say patterson, royaloak on the expo line.

[aberdeen5698]

Speaking about skytrain stations, in your opinions which stations do you think is very underused?I'd put my money on Millenium Line's Lake City Way as being THE most underused station.

[WarrenC12]

I'd put my money on Millenium Line's Lake City Way as being THE most underused station.

That was the only station not opened with the main M-Line right? Never should have been built it appears.

[invisibleairwaves]

That was the only station not opened with the main M-Line right? Never should have been built it appears.

VCC-Clark also opened after the rest of the line, and it isn't exactly bursting at the seams either (although it gets a fair amount of traffic from the #84).

Most of the M-Line stations in Burnaby seem pretty underused, with the exceptions of Brentwood, Lougheed, and (sometimes) Production Way-University. Holdom and Gilmore will probably see a lot more use as the Brentwood area grows though.

On the Expo Line, if the predictions about Metrotown and Edmonds growing towards each other are true, Royal Oak will be well-placed. Patterson used to be somewhat busy at rush hour with the #125 BCIT bus, but Translink mysteriously and frustratingly killed that route with little warning this year. I've been meaning to send them an email about that; does anyone know what the reason was? Neither the 130 nor Metrotown Station can handle the demand.

[Whalleyboy]

Speaking about skytrain stations, in your opinions which stations do you think is very underused?

I would say patterson, royaloak on the expo line.

gateway
which is strange given the towers around it

[Millennium2002]

The walk from nanaimo isnt that long to trout lake, so i dnt think it would be needed

I actually think the length is still substantial to warrant an infill station at Trout Lake much like the proposed Boundary station. A station would also make it easier for people to get to the local community centre.

Patterson used to be somewhat busy at rush hour with the #125 BCIT bus, but Translink mysteriously and frustratingly killed that route with little warning this year.

That's a surprise. I'm wondering if it became a victim of the recent efficiency movement at TransLink.

As for underused stations, they seem to have been designed more for the "build it and they will come" scenario. Unfortunately that hasn't exactly taken off due to a variety of problems including community opposition, lack of affordability, lack of profit, lack of community amenities, fluctuating and unstable housing market, etc.

[SpikePhanta]

VCC-Clark also opened after the rest of the line, and it isn't exactly bursting at the seams either (although it gets a fair amount of traffic from the #84).

Most of the M-Line stations in Burnaby seem pretty underused, with the exceptions of Brentwood, Lougheed, and (sometimes) Production Way-University. Holdom and Gilmore will probably see a lot more use as the Brentwood area grows though.

On the Expo Line, if the predictions about Metrotown and Edmonds growing towards each other are true, Royal Oak will be well-placed. Patterson used to be somewhat busy at rush hour with the #125 BCIT bus, but Translink mysteriously and frustratingly killed that route with little warning this year. I've been meaning to send them an email about that; does anyone know what the reason was? Neither the 130 nor Metrotown Station can handle the demand.
I'm pretty sure they placed a bus that runs from/to patterson down willingdon.

I do see Royal Oak as potential being busy in maybe the next 20 years when all those warehouses going to get redevelop along with kingsway.
But then again that's only if they dont built those more townhouses like those south of the line, I dont like how townhouses dont make the area more vibrant and bustling.

And to the above post.
I don't see any problems walking to Trout Lake as it's quite a nice walk, and most of the people who go to trout lake to enjoy the nature.

[nname]

On the Expo Line, if the predictions about Metrotown and Edmonds growing towards each other are true, Royal Oak will be well-placed. Patterson used to be somewhat busy at rush hour with the #125 BCIT bus, but Translink mysteriously and frustratingly killed that route with little warning this year. I've been meaning to send them an email about that; does anyone know what the reason was? Neither the 130 nor Metrotown Station can handle the demand.

#125 only run Sept-April

[invisibleairwaves]

Really? I thought it ran later than that last year. The 130 is still a total mess.

I'd like to see a real express route from either Metrotown or Patterson that only stops at Sanderson, Goard, Ganada Way, and Brentwood and then comes back. The 125 was nice because it was a little less busy than the 130, and used articulated buses sometimes, but it made all the stops between Patterson and BCIT, and the one-way service probably hurt the cost-recovery quite a bit.

My college is moving to a new place right next to Renfrew Station next month, so I guess I won't have to worry about it anymore...still sucks for the BCIT people though.


I'm also a little surprised by Gateway's lack of use. Maybe if that whole office complex gets built... *knock on wood*

[red-paladin]

I actually think the length is still substantial to warrant an infill station at Trout Lake much like the proposed Boundary station. A station would also make it easier for people to get to the local community centre.

The letter I posted above was pretty clear that only Clark and Boundary are suitable for potential stations on the Expo line.

[Distill3d]

The letter I posted above was pretty clear that only Clark and Boundary are suitable for potential stations on the Expo line.

Both would seem rather pointless to be honest. Clark is close enough to Commercial. Plus, with the M Line terminus at VCC Clark, is it really necessary?

Boundary is close enough to Joyce and Patterson that it would seem to be well serviced. I mean really, unless the population in that area doubled, there's no real need for a station at Boundary.

I would love to see a Woodlands station be built along the M Line.

[huenthar]

For that 'Clark' station, could it not be built nearer Great Northern Way campus, if needed for future developments over the rail yards? The tracks there are straight and flat. This would be instead of a 'Finning' station on the Broadway line, so that line could instead serve Broadway/Fraser.

[twoNeurons]

I wonder if a station at Clark could be close enough to provide a connector to VCC/Clark Station. Many cities run stations parallel to each other. This would take the load off of Commercial Drive/Broadway station... which will only get busier should the M-Line continue west to meet the Broadway corridor and the Canada Line.

[DKaz]

#125 only run Sept-April

Someone forgot to tell Translink that BCIT's school year runs until the end of May.

[jsbertram]

There already is a 'Clark Dr' station on the Millennium line which is the current western terminal at Vancouver Community College (VCC station) but this will become just another Millennium line station when the Millennium line is built westwards past Great Northern Way Campus (with a station there), turns south into tunnel under Prince Edward St, and westwards again tunnelling under 10th Ave (Kingsgate mall station) all the way to UBC.

The problem with a Clark Dr station on the Expo line is that the guideways are built quite high to get over Clark Dr and the railway tracks & shunting yards, whereas the Millennium line guideway for VCC station is under Clark Dr. The Expo guideway curves north-west from the Clark / Grandview Cut to run east and north of Home Depot parking lot and into the centre median on Terminal Avenue.

Building an Expo line Clark Dr station to connect to VCC station is duplicating the transit hub that already exists only one station east (Broadway @ Commercial), only this proposed dual-station wouldn't have the advantage of Broadway local and B-line buses stopping there too.

When the Millennium line is built at least as far as Arbutus, there won't be any transfers from SkyTrain to/from B-Line at Broadway @ Commercial because the UBC B-line will be shortened to run only between Arbutus and UBC. The new Millennium line extension from Arbutus to VCC (and the new eastern Evergreen line from Lougheed to Douglas College) will dramatically shift transit usage across the north side of Vancouver and Burnaby. Broadway @ Commercial will remain a busy transfer point, with the majority of the traffic being Skytrain-to-Skytrain, and some transfers will continue to be Skytrain-to- Broadway local bus or Skytrain-to- Commercial Dr bus. A lot of people using the Millennium line today who have to transfer to a Broadway bus at Broadway @ Commercial will discover its easier & quicker to stay on the Millennium train and use one of the new stops closer to their destination.

With the connection from the new Millennium line to the Canada Line at City Hall, some Skytrain riders will use this transfer point to get to the Airport, Richmond, South Vancouver or as an alternate way to get downtown instead of using the Expo line.

[BCPhil]

I wonder if a station at Clark could be close enough to provide a connector to VCC/Clark Station. Many cities run stations parallel to each other. This would take the load off of Commercial Drive/Broadway station... which will only get busier should the M-Line continue west to meet the Broadway corridor and the Canada Line.

I think it would be a lot of construction work and way too far for a practical transfer. The Expo track curves on the west side of Clark, so the station would have to be entirely on the East side. People transferring would have to walk down to Clark, cross Clark, then walk down from Clark to ground level then to the far side of VCC station, and back up stairs. If it was practical and affordable to build easy access to VCC station from Clark Dr level without going down to ground level, they would have done it already to provide better access to/from VCC-Clark and the #22 bus on Clark.

The stairs from a Clark station on Expo would come down about here

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=49.266055,-123.076704&num=1&t=h&sll=49.2917,-122.754042&sspn=0.011294,0.027874&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=49.266078,-123.076762&spn=0.000351,0.000871&z=21&layer=c&cbll=49.266077,-123.076762&panoid=xitnsr-aYUwSOCFVZc6W_g&cbp=12,247.23,,0,6.04

And that round roof you see off in the distance is VCC-Clark station. It would be quite a long walk even if special connecting pathways were built. The only reason to build the station would be if Clark Drive and the #22 were a popular destination. But I think once the M line is extended, it would make more sense to just divert the #22 to the VCC-Clark bus loop for a pit stop so people can make transfers.

[SpikePhanta]

And plus if the homedepot area gets redevelop then we could just get busses from commercial

[Bureaucromancer]

the monorail platform was on the other side of the that third platform

Speaking of which, does anyone have a good map of the monorail route? I'm aware of the general area, but the best I've found was some promotional thing showing the expo grounds, not all that clear or detailed.

[Zassk]

Here is the full map of Expo 86, which includes the monorail route (you can make out the 6 monorail stations too, there is one in each color zone, plus an extra in Red Zone to connect to SkyTrain on the eastbound monorail only).

I can still remember almost every feature on the map vividly... I had a season's pass and must have gone down to Expo at least 20 times. It was quite the exciting place for a 13-year-old with newfound freedom on the BC Transit bus system. Strangely, the monorail is one feature that I used rarely... I recall there being very long lineups at the central stations which discouraged its use. I have little memory of what it looked like inside, although I do remember the soft hum as it moved.

I have a distinct memory of seeing the entire massive platform between the monorail and the SkyTrain, completely packed with people, all waiting to be shuttled from False Creek to Canada Place. On reflection, it's likely that the whole platform fit into the 4-car MKI train each time it departed, roughly once per 10 minutes.

http://bobbea.com/expo-86/largemap.html