SkyTrain expansion to start new race for real estate?

[mr.x]

And now the race for real estate begins
Big money to be made where lines are going

Kent Spencer, The Province
Published: Tuesday, January 15, 2008

Real estate in Coquitlam and Surrey just got a whole lot pricier after the province announced three new SkyTrain lines yesterday.

"It will add billions to property values," said Don Campbell, president of the Real Estate Investment Network.

North American studies show properties increase 20 per cent if they are within 1,000 metres of transit stations. If the property is up-zoned to high-density residential, the value jumps a further 100 per cent.

Campbell has a tip for anyone owning a property near a line or thinking of buying one.

"Find out where the line is going -- see if you're within 1,000 metres -- and prepare for a very fun ride," he said. "You will see the [smart money] slowly moving into that marketplace."

People, he says, shouldn't buy closer than about two blocks because crime and noise become issues. They should also be prepared to wait four to five years after the stations open or to have governments change their minds altogether.

SkyTrain stations all over the Lower Mainland have become magnets for apartment towers and lowrise condos; Metrotown in Burnaby is the best example of an area transformed by transit into a sea of highrises.

Campbell expects the Evergreen Line in Coquitlam to have the greatest impact on values, followed by the extension of the Expo Line along King George Highway in Surrey.

Those areas are less built-up than the Broadway corridor in Vancouver, where the UBC line will be located. Kitsilano prices are already sky-high.

Meanwhile, NDP transportation critic Maurine Karagianis says the issue is all about land speculation.

"TransLink has been given all kinds of powers to do land-purchasing. I think we're going to see some massive changes in density in these communities. Certainly, municipalities are not going to have a lot of control over that," she said.

John Buker of the Rail for the Valley Campaign says the government isn't doing enough for outlying areas.

"What we see is megabucks for SkyTrain in Vancouver, but no light rail for the Valley. It's completely unfair.

"We're all B.C. taxpayers, but there's this double standard. Valley residents are expected to deal with constantly increasing traffic. We're asking for light rail from Vancouver to Chilliwack," he said.

kspencer@png.canwest.com

[worldwide]

light rail to the valley makes no sense at all. commuter rail, yes, not a glorified streetcar. this brings up the debate though, of if we should be encouraging people to live so far away from urban centers and/or employment centers. if we are going to focus growth in the suburbs we need to focus employment growth there aswell to reduce the need for inter city commutin g. especially once you get past abbotsford

[twoNeurons]

I could see light rail from Abbotsford to Mission.

[paradigm4]

light rail to the valley makes no sense at all. commuter rail, yes, not a glorified streetcar. this brings up the debate though, of if we should be encouraging people to live so far away from urban centers and/or employment centers. if we are going to focus growth in the suburbs we need to focus employment growth there aswell to reduce the need for inter city commutin g. especially once you get past abbotsford

My god, what is with all your guys' hate against LRT. There's a reason it's not called a glorified streetcar: because it's something different; LRT!

For that matter, the suburbs are actually handling employment levels quite well, despite the fact that they are zoning for office parks and the like. It's a very small percentage of people actually "traveling into the city" for work. And talk speaking of industrial land, all I see Vancouver doing is rezoning it all for condos! Plus, the city's extremely low office vacancy rate downtown. So don't try and blame all problems on the suburbs. Vancouver frankly isn't doing the greatest job it could be either!

[AKA-007]

Plus, the city's extremely low office vacancy rate downtown. So don't try and blame all problems on the suburbs. Vancouver frankly isn't doing the greatest job it could be either!

Maybe that's vancouvers way of changing the zoning, let the other municipalities build office space

also, there has to be a demand for LRT for it to actually work. If you have only a fraction of the number of people who would use it as compared to a line in Vancouver, then obviously the line will be built in the one with the most ridership.

On a side note, if traffic gets as bad in other municipalities (Victoria, Chilliwack, Kelowna, ect.) as it was in Vancouver before the expo line was first built, then I could see a line being built.

There has to be demand and the population for these to work.

[Jared]

My god, what is with all your guys' hate against LRT. There's a reason it's not called a glorified streetcar: because it's something different; LRT!


I think there's two issues here:

The first is the supposed "hate against LRT". I cant speak for the original poster, but personally, I think LRT's can be a great asset to a city. However, when something is simply a glorified streetcar trying to masquerade itself as an LRT, in a situation when a real LRT is needed, then there's northing wrong with criticism. Calgary's C-Train is real LRT, the (hopefully) former technology for the Evergreen Line was a glorified streetcar where something better is needed.

The second is the issue of any form of Rapid Transit (Subways, LRT, Streetcar, Skytrain, whatever...) in the Valley. At this point, I think the notion is particularly absurd; the population density is far too low for this to make sense. As worldwide mentioned, what would make sense is a WCE Line going out to Abbotsford and maybe Chilliwack (but with a stop, say near a Surrey SkyTrain station, so people can go places other than downtown). I would like to eventually see the Lower Mainland develop a regional rail system, which perhaps runs less frequently than SkyTrain, but does less stops, and can get people accross those longer distances that SkyTrain is simply not fast enough to handle (i.e. going from Abbotsford to DT Vancouver on SkyTrain would take forever).

My only worry about any sort of commuter lines though is that they will act as a catalyst for sprawl and eat up more of the ALR. If they were to be put forward, steps would need to be taken in order to ensure sprawl does not pop up on what should be protected lands.

[deasine]

Maybe that's vancouvers way of changing the zoning, let the other municipalities build office space

also, there has to be a demand for LRT for it to actually work. If you have only a fraction of the number of people who would use it as compared to a line in Vancouver, then obviously the line will be built in the one with the most ridership.

On a side note, if traffic gets as bad in other municipalities (Victoria, Chilliwack, Kelowna, ect.) as it was in Vancouver before the expo line was first built, then I could see a line being built.

There has to be demand and the population for these to work.

In a sense it isn't really Vancouver's way of doing urban planning. But I see your point. Honestly, if I wasn't for the office crisis in downtown, we wouldn't have offices across the entire region. This isn't the best map but:

http://www.gvrd.bc.ca/livablecentres/gifs/livable-centres-map.gif

It illustrates the many different regional centres there are in the Vancouver region. In between the regions are usually residential. People tend to live in between the centres, which allows them to live near work. Unlike many other cities in North America, it's not about going from Suburbs to Downtown, but from Home to Regional Centre or from Regional Centre to Regional Centre. I think it's a much smarter way of urban planning, no sprawling.

I think SFUVancouver will give a really good explanation or urban planning in the GVRD (or metro van now). I'm not an urban planner after all...

With regards to LRT to Fraser Valley, I wouldn't think it's needed. I like LRT, but is it really necessary? And I'm pretty sure the provincal government is not interested in LRT from Surrey to Valley right now - they will try to expand the Gateway RapidBus first.

[SpongeG]

I think there's two issues here:

The first is the supposed "hate against LRT". I cant speak for the original poster, but personally, I think LRT's can be a great asset to a city. However, when something is simply a glorified streetcar trying to masquerade itself as an LRT, in a situation when a real LRT is needed, then there's northing wrong with criticism. Calgary's C-Train is real LRT, the (hopefully) former technology for the Evergreen Line was a glorified streetcar where something better is needed.

The second is the issue of any form of Rapid Transit (Subways, LRT, Streetcar, Skytrain, whatever...) in the Valley. At this point, I think the notion is particularly absurd; the population density is far too low for this to make sense. As worldwide mentioned, what would make sense is a WCE Line going out to Abbotsford and maybe Chilliwack (but with a stop, say near a Surrey SkyTrain station, so people can go places other than downtown). I would like to eventually see the Lower Mainland develop a regional rail system, which perhaps runs less frequently than SkyTrain, but does less stops, and can get people accross those longer distances that SkyTrain is simply not fast enough to handle (i.e. going from Abbotsford to DT Vancouver on SkyTrain would take forever).

My only worry about any sort of commuter lines though is that they will act as a catalyst for sprawl and eat up more of the ALR. If they were to be put forward, steps would need to be taken in order to ensure sprawl does not pop up on what should be protected lands.

the evergreen wasn't a streetcar - it was an LRT

just go to a city like portkland where they have both systems to see how different they are