The Great Olympics Debate: Short & Long Term Impacts

[raggedy13]

The potential impact of the Olympics on the region has always interested me and has lead to many a fanciful daydream from time to time of how very different Vancouver will be in 5-10 years thanks to the Olympics.

People seem to have all sorts of different opinions on the matter ranging from severely pessimistic to ridiculously optimistic (I tend to lean towards the ridiculously optimistic side myself :D).

From what I can see, there is a huge variety of areas and angles we can discuss. To get the ball rolling, here are a few that come first to my mind (in no particular order):


1) Impact on population growth (considering both international and domestic migration)

2) Impact on tourism (international and domestic)

3) Impact on foreign investment in the region (including speculative real estate investment)

4) Impact on built form (transportation infrastructure, new landmark buildings, public art, SEFC etc.)

5) Impact on the city's identity, culture, and the arts (a cultural renaissance on the horizon?)

6) Impact on the DTES (A good thing? A bad thing? Little impact at all?)

7) Impact on the average tax-paying Joe and the economy in general (office space considerations, attraction of new foreign retail outlets to the region, BC ultimately financially crippled?)

8) How might the city be different now and in the future if we were never awarded the Olympics to begin with?

These are by no means the only possible topics to discuss so feel free to bring up whatever is on your mind in relation to the Olympics.

[raggedy13]

I guess I will start by saying I'm rather optimistic about the whole thing. I'll say a short summary of my feelings on the issues I listed but not go too in-depth just yet as I could go on and on for quite some time.

For population, I see no real negative impacts. One might be able to argue that increased speculation could drive up housing prices and therefore ultimately discourage people from moving to the region but that hasn't proven to be such an issue just yet and our prices are already the highest in the country. Personally I'd like to see a healthy increase in growth rates for the region but not necessarily a ridiculous and unsustainable one.

For tourism, I see only benefits. All the media coverage the city gets leading up to and during the Olympics will be great marketing and I think Vancouver is currently an underrated travel destination. I thought Vancouver had a lot of tourists before, but after seeing just how busy with tourists European cities can get, I figure Vancouver has much room for improving its numbers.

For foreign investment, I see a lot of foreign companies/individuals being exposed to Vancouver for the first time and seeing great potential in it. The greatest impact might be on the real estate market. I'm slightly concerned about this considering how high prices currently are. If they continue to increase (and possibly at a more accelerated pace after the Olympics) I don't see much good coming from it for the average non-homeowner such as myself. It might lead to an even more impressive condo boom throughout the region though which would make for some good fun to watch.

I'm writing a bit more than I intended so I'll stop there for now. Your thoughts?

[mr.x]

1) Impact on population growth - i see little or none effect

2) Tourism - past Olympic host cities have seen growths in their tourism industry. Calgary and SLC saw growth, Sydney saw something like 12% though that was soon offsetted by the effects of 9/11. And recently, Torino saw a 16% rise. Barcelona, i would think, is the Olympic city that has seen the greatest tourism benefits.

3) Foreign investments - it'll be just like Expo.

to be continued...

[cornholio]

1) Impact on population growth (considering both international and domestic migration) Small increase in growth but hardly noticeable..

2) Impact on tourism (international and domestic) A large increase...even though Vancouver is one of the more overrated cities out there for visiting as there is literally almost nothing special to do or see.

3) Impact on foreign investment in the region (including speculative real estate investment) Increase in both but nothing too significant...hardly noticeable increase.

4) Impact on built form (transportation infrastructure, new landmark buildings, public art, SEFC etc.)
none, unless its due to the three question/answers above

5) Impact on the city's identity, culture, and the arts (a cultural renaissance on the horizon?)none

6) Impact on the DTES (A good thing? A bad thing? Little impact at all?)
there is and will be a effort to clean it up, if they do a good enough job then there will be some demand to clean it up some more as people will see the potential and realize that it is possible to fix it up.

7) Impact on the average tax-paying Joe and the economy in general (office space considerations, attraction of new foreign retail outlets to the region, BC ultimately financially crippled?)The economy will be better then it would off but the average joe might not see or feel much of a improvement and possibly be worse off in some ways thanks to the success.


8) How might the city be different now and in the future if we were never awarded the Olympics to begin with?very different, ill answer this one later.

These are by no means the only possible topics to discuss so feel free to bring up whatever is on your mind. So I was thinking of buying this used car in the states and shipping it up but not sure if its a good idea. Im looking at a toyota 4 runner as out here their grossly overpriced something like 10+ grand for a mid to late 90's with 200grand+ km is not a good deal. Though they are one of the best cars for offroading and last hella long not to mention their decent fuel mileage since they have 3 liter or even 2.7l engines Well anyways thats whats on my mind, thanks for giving me a opportunity to spill it out. Oh yeah heres to make it a topic, anyone buy a used car on here from the states...bad or good idea.

[raggedy13]

^:haha: Ok, I'm going to have to edit that last statement a bit.

[vanman]

2) Impact on tourism (international and domestic) A large increase...even though Vancouver is one of the more overrated cities out there for visiting as there is literally almost nothing special to do or see.

4) Impact on built form (transportation infrastructure, new landmark buildings, public art, SEFC etc.)
none, unless its due to the three question/answers above

5) Impact on the city's identity, culture, and the arts (a cultural renaissance on the horizon?)none



Dude you are hilarious. Talk about pessimism.

[cornholio]

hey i consider my self a optimist, i think the Olympics will overall have a big net benefit to BC. I do think Vancouver for visiting is one of the more overrated cities out there because there really is almost nothing special to do or see. Last week I was up at Whistler with my bro and on the lift two american tourists asked us if there was anything that was a must see on their way back through Vancouver. Well me and my bro couldent think of anything. Museum of anthropology was one thing but thats hardly a cant miss must see thing. The Vancouver aquarium was another but again not really a cant miss type of thing unless you never been to a aquarium. Other then that we were stumped. Now sure there are a few more things to do in the summer but almost nothing that you cant get in almost every other region out there. The north shore mountains are nice, Capilano suspension bridge, Stanley Park, a cruise around the sea wall, Gastown, and well thats just about it.
Oh yeah we did think of one thing that we thought was a must see cant miss unique to Vancouver thing, a walk around Main and Hastings but it didnt seem like they were too enthusiastic about it.

As far as built form etc. it wouldn't have any direct impact in my opinion because these impacts would be a result of the positive effects on the economy and population growth. I am also talking about impacts after 2010 not before since surely there is a big impact before the games but that stops right after.

I dont think it will have any impact on the cities culture, but sure it will change the identity a little bit. We will be a olympic city, not something alot of cities out there can attach to their name and identity.

[mr.x]

^ i can agree with you on that somewhat. we lack big city attractions, and world-class shopping.

[bils]

.... I do think Vancouver for visiting is one of the more overrated cities out there because there really is almost nothing special to do or see. .......

...... Now sure there are a few more things to do in the summer but almost nothing that you cant get in almost every other region out there. The north shore mountains are nice, Capilano suspension bridge, Stanley Park, a cruise around the sea wall, Gastown, and well thats just about it.

you could say that about a lot of cities that are considered 'major world attractions'. a city like vancouver is simply a place to be experienced. there doesn't need to be a disneyland or a louvre in order to make a city attractive to tourists. people go to honolulu to experience a metropolitan city in the tropics. people come to vancouver to experience a metropolitan city close to nature. sure we don't have world class shopping, but we sure have enough to keep even the most hardcore shoppers happy.

[vanman]

^True enough. Vancouver is a city not a resort. Pleasing tourists should not be our number 1 priority.

[Hed Kandi]

The Olympics will do to Vancouver everything that expo '86 did, but MORE and BIGGER.

I expect that by 2020, this city will be so dramatically transformed, in culture, infrastructure, art, services, etc - that it will be nothing like the Vancouver today.

I think Vancouverites are ignortant to or completely underestimate the spotlight which this great city will receive and the post olympics benefits that it will reap.

[raggedy13]

^I would tend to agree.

I think the media coverage Vancouver will receive will be quite beneficial for both showcasing its good points and even bringing to the forefront the aspects which Vancouver needs to work on most, perhaps directing the city's focus and encouraging the city to work a little harder towards become a well-rounded, mature city more worthy of its self-proclaimed "world class" status.

On that latter point, I don't mean just the obvious challenges like the DTES will be brought to the forefront (it already has been there for quite some time) but things like Vancouver's lack of significant arts/cultural institutions or nightlife entertainment venues - the sort of things that are often overlooked in Vancouver but that no true world class city is without.

We've got great nature, recreational opportunities, and restaurants for a city our size but a little more effort needs to be put into the city's man-made forms of entertainment. When the likes of urban-minded Europeans arrive in town I imagine these deficiencies will not go unnoticed.

Anyways, that is just one possible aspect that might come up during what will ultimately be a large scale critiquing of our city by the international community.

[mr.x]

^ i think that's a pretty good summary of what will happen. it will give us an opportunity to self-reflect who we are as a community, as a city.

[Rusty Gull]

Just a word on the aforementioned "world-class shopping". What exactly is "world-class shopping", anyways? And does anyone on this forum engage in it regularly? (This is not to downplay Mr. X's point, mind you, which is that there's a perception that the retail environment in Vancouver is somehow second rate.)

I mean, when I travel to Hong Kong or London or Tokyo, I'm inevitably drawn to the local retailers (whether it's Uniqlo or the night markets or Portobello Road). But how are they different from Commercial Drive or Robson Street or the Richmond Night Market?

As for the high-end retailers like Tiffany's et al, I don't need them -- but Vancouver certainly has them.

One thing we are missing on the retail end of things, however: a destination book shop, ala Powells in Portland. And one other: An Apple store. At least the latter will soon be addressed.

[Rusty Gull]

To address Raggedy's original question:

The answer -- in terms of impact -- is what you are seeing right now. The rush to build the convention center and the RAV Line and the Sea-to-Sky highway; the massive upgrades to Cypress Mountain ski resort; new recreation infrastructure for Whistler (not to mention Richmond and Vancouver and UBC). And countless other Olympics-related investments.

In short, the impact is the infrastructure. That, in turn, could give a shot in the arm to population growth, culture, tourism. And it has undoubtedly thrown some fuel on the economic boom this region is enjoying currently.

As far as impact on the city's recognition and reputation and even foreign investment from the Games themselves-- I think it will be marginal.

I think Salt Lake, Nagano, Lake Placid etc are all recognized as pleasant enough places, but there hasn't been a stampede of people to those cities. Calgary is the exception that comes to mind, but of course their boom economy has more to do with oil and global commodities markets than ski-jumping (my utmost respect for Eddie the Eagle Edwards notwithstanding).

Besides, Vancouver is already well-known as a tourist destination. With any luck, it might become a business hub too, but don't count on 2010 to make that happen.

[Nutterbug]

Maybe we could add a little more niche shopping to meet the local demand for it, but we are not going to outdo New York or Paris for shopping, art, or anything else by becoming miniature versions of them. We have our own defining characteristics that we are better off to build on, than copying other famous so-called "world class" cities.

[AKA-007]

I agree with the low number of "must see" attractions. But I will mention one thing that will be finished in time for the olympics that is pretty darn cool (and a little bit riddiculus)

Peak-to-peak

that incredibly long gondola between Whistler and Blackcomb. Multiple world record breaker that has little purpose other than to say we built it, now ride it. The construction on that thing must be Olympic-fuelled because it's a sort of modern landmark in Whistler that just happens to be built a year before the olympics. Still...it's just plain cool.

From Whistlerblackcomb.com
http://ww1.whistlerblackcomb.com/p2pg/images/tech_lg_1.jpg

[mr.x]

Honestly, I'd never ride that thing. Way too scared of heights....in Hong Kong, the MTR runs a cable car line from near the airport to the "Big Buddha" statue. Months ago, that thing broke down....took months to fix it. 10 minutes into the first test, one of the cars fell and landed 200 feet below. O_O

[Nutterbug]

hey i consider my self a optimist, i think the Olympics will overall have a big net benefit to BC. I do think Vancouver for visiting is one of the more overrated cities out there because there really is almost nothing special to do or see. Last week I was up at Whistler with my bro and on the lift two american tourists asked us if there was anything that was a must see on their way back through Vancouver. Well me and my bro couldent think of anything. Museum of anthropology was one thing but thats hardly a cant miss must see thing. The Vancouver aquarium was another but again not really a cant miss type of thing unless you never been to a aquarium. Other then that we were stumped. Now sure there are a few more things to do in the summer but almost nothing that you cant get in almost every other region out there. The north shore mountains are nice, Capilano suspension bridge, Stanley Park, a cruise around the sea wall, Gastown, and well thats just about it.
Oh yeah we did think of one thing that we thought was a must see cant miss unique to Vancouver thing, a walk around Main and Hastings but it didnt seem like they were too enthusiastic about it.

Slums and ghettos aren't unique to Vancouver either.

[cornholio]

Slums and ghettos aren't unique to Vancouver either.

main and hastings is rather unique to vancouver and im yet to see a area in na or infact any first world nation that comes even close to the number of homeless and drug addicted in one small area, the amount of open drug use and dealing and the hopelessness of the area, the police station and officers walking among this is just icing on the cake. our slum and ghetto that we call east hastings is world class and a experience that not many have the opportunity to experience.

[johnjimbc]

As a newcomer who moved here with my partner in large part simply because I fell in love with the city during earlier visits, I feel like I have a unique perspective on Vancouver's appeal.

I have traveled extensively in my life (not the entire globe but still having racked up a lot of visits to "world class" and other major cities). I also lived in DC for nearly 10 years - another highly underrated city whose (more negative) image is almost always reversed when someone finally sees the (actually quite impressive) real city in person.

So it does say something that on my very first visit - despite 3 days of rain ; )- I fell in love with Vancouver. So I think those of you who constantly point out that Vancouver isn't anything special or fails on some arbitrary measure ("world class" shopping, whatever that is :) are perhaps too close to it.

The closest someone came was in pointing out that people visit a place like Honolulu to experience a large modern city in the tropics. They then went on to say people visit Vancouver to experience a modern city designed and built to integrate with nature.

When people travel - for people who really love to travel - it has been my experience they do it in part to nurse some desire to imagine their lives in another place, in some imaginary parallel life. So they stroll around Paris and imagine how wonderful it must be to live in such a planned and artistic city, to dine at little cafes, to visit the grand museums, to stroll along the Seine. They visit New York and imagine what it must be like to be among the hustle and bustle on 5th Avenue, or to jog in Central Park with thousands of other people, or to catch some edgy show in some newly re-discovered corner of the city. They visit smaller places, like Santa Fe and imagine knowing artists and native craftsmen and going to a chef's quality dinner in a small terra cotta home in the heart of a sophisticated small city nestled among almost mystical landscapes of rocky, windswept bluffs.

For that same reason, Vancouver is fascinating. People marvel at how wild and grand Stanley Park and the North Shore mountains are, though one is within walking distance and one within easy sight of an impressive downtown. They stroll down Commercial Drive or 4th Avenue or Robson and find it so incredible that they can be among shops and restaurants and local haunts yet turn around and see a crisp mountain top or a patch of ocean within easy access or just a stroll away. I remember finding it so neat to discover that you could take a little aquabus across False Creek or stroll for miles in park-like settings on the seawall - even in the very core of the city.

I just think Vancouver's appeal is much more than some narrow checklist of "what a real world class city" needs to have. My biggest fear would be that if finding that "formula" became the focus, Vancouver might lose some of its natural appeal. That's probably why I cringe anytime anyone says (or implies), "let's get rid of the view cones and build a mass of 800 ft skyscrapers." The implication seems to be that then Vancouver will have "made it" because it will be more like Manhattan or Hong Kong. I think if the city really set out to do that, it would end up being just a mass of buildings with horrible infrastructure problems and massive headaches for anyone trying to get in or out of the city. I'd much rather see a more natural - no pun intended - growth of the other city cores, all designed with both a human scale and an urban vibe and family friendly focus in mind.

This is long and a bit tangential to the topic, but it's something I've been thinking for a while as I read this board - which I love by the way. I learn so much about the city reading it.

I'll post another shorter message of my thoughts on the basic questions that were asked.

[johnjimbc]

Again from my newcomer perspective, here are my thoughts:

1) Impact on population growth (considering both international and domestic migration) - I think it might boost the international appeal a bit, perhaps from the states or far east, though more a continuation of the existing interest. Domestically, I'm not sure it would have that much affect.

2) Impact on tourism (international and domestic) - Short-term boost (couple of years) but has the potential to introduce the city to many people in much the same way the World's Fair did 20 years ago. There are a lot of people who wouldn't remember that anyway.

3) Impact on foreign investment in the region (including speculative real estate investment) - Reinforce the area as a potential investment, including real estate development, though I would suspect that companies interested in that already have Vancouver on their radar screens. If the city is presented well and the Olympics are well-received , I suppose it might entice some to accelerate their plans.

4) Impact on built form (transportation infrastructure, new landmark buildings, public art, SEFC etc.) - I think that is already happening so its hard to distinguish infrastructure already in work to support the Olympics - or pushed forward as a result of the Olympics - versus new plans. But I think it will give some impetus to moving plans forward, such as the $14B plan announced yesterday.

5) Impact on the city's identity, culture, and the arts (a cultural renaissance on the horizon?) - I think it will help give a boost to the arts and culture aspect. Seems to me there is a growing sense that the city needs to focus on that so the Olympics might help bring forward actual plans for an Arts District or other efforts to build and support the arts community. I'm not sure it is because of the Olympics, but I think the Olympics helps shine a light on the need to promote that element since so much of being the host city is about the culture of the nation and community hosting the games.

6) Impact on the DTES (A good thing? A bad thing? Little impact at all?) - Well, I think some of the efforts going on now are clearly to try to get some forward motion there or along the edges. One might call it saving face. Personally I have mixed feelings about the DTES. I have to admit it is shocking on the surface the first time I saw it. Yet I had a weird reaction to it overall. On one hand, I had never seen such a bizarre area in a North American city. Yet, despite the appearance, I didn't feel overtly unsafe there. I've felt much less safe in smaller US cities in the "heartland." So it is a mixed bag. Visually, it looks much worse than it feels. I would hope the city could find some way to improve the appeal of the area without destroying the unique support agencies and networks that have developed there. I think a lot will be done in hopes it won't be a distraction from the Olympics, but I'm not sure the Olympics themselves will change it. It might be cleaned up a bit visually, and personally I'm fine with that.

7) Impact on the average tax-paying Joe and the economy in general (office space considerations, attraction of new foreign retail outlets to the region, BC ultimately financially crippled?) Minimal impacts. i don't think BC will go broke over it. Seems to me a lot of the construction are things that were needed anyway so the Olympics just gave some impetus to getting the improvements and new construction completed. I think Vancouver continues to get more expensive, but I don't think the Olympics has all that much to do with that. Seems to me Vancouver is catching up with the US west coast cities, which all tend to be very expensive. Perhaps a few more foreign retail entries but not that much difference.

8) How might the city be different now and in the future if we were never awarded the Olympics to begin with? I do think the Olympics are continuing the growth curve of Vancouver at a higher rate than it might have experienced otherwise. Not excessively so or in a completely measurable fashion, but I think it puts the growth slope at a higher trajectory than it would have been if the Olympics had not been held. Just think it puts Vancouver on more radar screens. It was surprising to me how many of our friends had a "good impression" of Vancouver but really didn't know much about the city. I think the Olympics has the potential to highlight the city to a new generation and give them a bit more of a sense of what the city is like. Personally, I'm just hoping it doesn't rain every single day. Would love to see beaming pictures of a bright sunny city with snow-capped mountains in the background beaming around the globe at least a few days during the festivities :)

[vanman]

^It was weird last night I had a dream I was walking around the DTES. I was really hostile walking with clenched fists ready to smash any crackhead that came near me. I also vividly remember trying to avoid needles on the ground. Kinda random I know.

[Hed Kandi]

^It was weird last night I had a dream I was walking around the DTES. I was really hostile walking with clenched fists ready to smash any crackhead that came near me. I also vividly remember trying to avoid needles on the ground. Kinda random I know.


Bwahahahahaha. :haha: :haha: :haha:

[bugsy]

1) Impact on population growth (considering both international and domestic migration)
Probably neglible.

2) Impact on tourism (international and domestic)
Should be great, if I was a foreign tourist I would visit.

3) Impact on foreign investment in the region (including speculative real estate investment)
Vancouver dosen't really have major industries, so perhaps more of the service variety. As for real estate investment, it's already happening.

4) Impact on built form (transportation infrastructure, new landmark buildings, public art, SEFC etc.)
Will do wonders by replacing or updating old buildings with their outdated designs.

5) Impact on the city's identity, culture, and the arts (a cultural renaissance on the horizon?)
Culture? In Vancouver? Ha!

6) Impact on the DTES (A good thing? A bad thing? Little impact at all?)
The best thing the area has ever seen in a long time. Perhaps it would encourage some hobos to move out of town.

7) Impact on the average tax-paying Joe and the economy in general (office space considerations, attraction of new foreign retail outlets to the region, BC ultimately financially crippled?)
It's not as if we're not being taxed to death already anyways. However, it would be great for the economy.

8) How might the city be different now and in the future if we were never awarded the Olympics to begin with?
No money from the feds. Ever. Hell, I should know, I work for them.