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trofirhen
Nov 12, 2009, 8:15 PM
How many petitions do you have on the go right now?

I don't have any, as I live in Europe, which renders it difficult for me to directly confront these folks. I HAD hoped that someone would "PICK UP THE BALL AND RUN WITH IT," as I did, back when I lived in Vancouver, 15 years ago.

(It was like smashing my head against a concrete wall, but it did get some notice, in the newsper, and in the Planning Department. It really requires a team effort, and a lot of lobbying, as the powers that be in Vancouver are, to the larger extent, imaginationless, flat-footed, hillbillies) :sly: :koko: :shrug: :yuck: :(

trofirhen
Nov 13, 2009, 1:20 AM
Are they still planning to move the art gallery? Perhaps they are reluctant to improve things if they have a mindset that they won't be staying at the present location.

That's very true. However, given the nature of the building, I would imagine it would be turned into a museum of some sort, or an institute of higher learning, such as a music conservatory, for example. In any event, it's the finest piece of heritage architecture in the city, and deserves better treatment than it's currently getting.

Also, looking at the whole thing holistically, it forms part of Robson Square. This is just the side of it that people frequent less, so it gets ignored.

Whatever its future use (unless they tear it down and put in the biggest McDonald's in Canada, or such - not unimaginable in hicktown Vancouver...),
the current VAG building does need a cleaning, and a lighting up. This would draw people to it, and indirectly, enhance Robson Square, too.

sacrifice333
Nov 13, 2009, 2:20 AM
At a Robson Square open house I asked a planner if a post-VAG museum might use the front steps and entrance, like a proper museum. He said that it is too shady there, and Arthur Erickson determined that there would be HVAC problems for a gallery if the main atrium was open to street. Complete crap, since so many other institutions are built just the same, and Erickson is not renowned for his engineering skills. I'd like to see those doors open, and leave the back bunker for shipping and receiving.

The building does seem to require some fairly extensive HVAC upgrades.

They had an absurd number of dehumidifiers in their for the Dutch Masters show last summer.

Trocadero
Nov 16, 2009, 6:57 AM
Oh yeah - there are HVAC problems now, but I doubt they are insurmountable. It may reduce the area for display, but I think it is possible, and desirable, to revamp the gallery so they can use those north front doors someday.

deasine
Nov 16, 2009, 7:07 AM
Oh yeah - there are HVAC problems now, but I doubt they are insurmountable. It may reduce the area for display, but I think it is possible, and desirable, to revamp the gallery so they can use those north front doors someday.

If they are going to move VAG to the cultural site proposed with the BC Place project, I rather not invest in it now.

trofirhen
Nov 18, 2009, 12:23 AM
If they are going to move VAG to the cultural site proposed with the BC Place project, I rather not invest in it now.

... and what could the building be for you?

Yume-sama
Nov 18, 2009, 7:06 PM
:banana: The skating rink opens November 24th!

AlexYVR
Nov 18, 2009, 8:26 PM
Whatever its future use (unless they tear it down and put in the biggest McDonald's in Canada, or such - not unimaginable in hicktown Vancouver...),
the current VAG building does need a cleaning, and a lighting up.


(It was like smashing my head against a concrete wall, but it did get some notice, in the newsper, and in the Planning Department. It really requires a team effort, and a lot of lobbying, as the powers that be in Vancouver are, to the larger extent, imaginationless, flat-footed, hillbillies) :sly: :koko: :shrug: :yuck: :(

I won't speak for anyone else but come on, man. Lighten up. You haven't lived here in 15 years. We've had some great conversations and I know you're capable of more expressive thought than this. As someone whose main goal in life is to one day be one of these 'imaginationless, flat-footed, hillbillies' in this 'hicktown', it's pretty unimpressive. We all know Sears is shitty and needs to be bombed/torn down/cleaned up/lit up/a million other opinions which are all valid. No need to drag people under your high horse.

BCPhil
Nov 18, 2009, 9:30 PM
That's very true. However, given the nature of the building, I would imagine it would be turned into a museum of some sort, or an institute of higher learning, such as a music conservatory, for example. In any event, it's the finest piece of heritage architecture in the city, and deserves better treatment than it's currently getting.

Also, looking at the whole thing holistically, it forms part of Robson Square. This is just the side of it that people frequent less, so it gets ignored.

Whatever its future use (unless they tear it down and put in the biggest McDonald's in Canada, or such - not unimaginable in hicktown Vancouver...),
the current VAG building does need a cleaning, and a lighting up. This would draw people to it, and indirectly, enhance Robson Square, too.

It seems a lot of people don't know the history of the VAG building. With the history of the building, I even think that being turned into a place of higher learning is too low for a building of such importance.

There is no chance in any form that the VAG building will fall into disrepair or be torn down ever because of two words: Francis Rattenbury.

The VAG used to be the Vancouver Courthouse, and the architect was none other than the BC Legend and built in 1906.

If the name is not ringing any bells, then I hope you are not from BC (and I mean all of you, this isn't a conversation with trofirhen).

Francis Rattenbury designed the BC Provincial Parliament buildings, the Empress Hotel, CPR Steamship terminal Building, Crystal Gardens and many other buildings.

The annex of the Courthouse (on the back) was designed by Thomas Hooper, who was the Architect on the Spencer Building (now SFU harbor center) and the Winch Building (of the Sinclair Center). Both the Courthouse and the Annex (the annex is still left in original condition with court rooms inside) are Heritage buildings.

The VAG building and grounds, including the centennial fountain in the front (celebrating the centennial of the union of the Colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia) and Robson Square (designed by another BC Legend Aurthur Erickson who also worked on the renovations of the buildings into the art gallery) is one of the most significant pieces of BC history in the city.

At one end is the new Courthouse designed by Aurthur Erickson and at the other end is the old Vancouver Courthouse designed by Francis Rattenbury and the annex by Thomas Hooper. It's old meets new. The history of BC contained in those few blocks is staggering, and it's importance to BCers should not be underestimated.

AlexYVR
Nov 18, 2009, 10:00 PM
It seems a lot of people don't know the history of the VAG building. With the history of the building, I even think that being turned into a place of higher learning is too low for a building of such importance.



As someone who isn't from BC, thanks for the history lesson - I'm definitely wikipediaing both those names when I have a chance!

EdinVan
Nov 18, 2009, 11:51 PM
-

EdinVan
Nov 18, 2009, 11:53 PM
There is no chance in any form that the VAG building will fall into disrepair or be torn down ever because of two words: Francis Rattenbury.

You mean the building that's in the dark half the time and whose steps are constantly littered in trash and, late at night, needles and other drug paraphernalia?

The VAG building and grounds, including the centennial fountain in the front (celebrating the centennial of the union of the Colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia) and Robson Square (designed by another BC Legend Aurthur Erickson who also worked on the renovations of the buildings into the art gallery) is one of the most significant pieces of BC history in the city.

You mean the fountain that they turn off all the time?

officedweller
Nov 19, 2009, 12:25 AM
That's a great fountain.
Lots of water splashing when it's going. There's a nice mosaic as the base of the pool.

SpongeG
Nov 19, 2009, 2:57 AM
i lik ethe lighting it has now

Rusty Gull
Nov 20, 2009, 11:57 PM
I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but I just have to say that the new ice rink which is close to completion looks PHENOMENAL. If anyone's in the neighbourhood, please have a peak. GE and the province have really done a nice job with this... I remember what the old rink used to look like, and it wasn't anywhere close to what we have now.

mr.x
Nov 21, 2009, 12:11 AM
These images of the rink remind me of the Plaza of Nations, I really miss it....for a long while it was our largest public square and the roof looked amazing.

The clam shell roof over Robson Square...what could have been.

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2009, 1:27 AM
It seems a lot of people don't know the history of the VAG building. With the history of the building, I even think that being turned into a place of higher learning is too low for a building of such importance.

There is no chance in any form that the VAG building will fall into disrepair or be torn down ever because of two words: Francis Rattenbury.

The VAG used to be the Vancouver Courthouse, and the architect was none other than the BC Legend and built in 1906.

If the name is not ringing any bells, then I hope you are not from BC (and I mean all of you, this isn't a conversation with trofirhen).

Francis Rattenbury designed the BC Provincial Parliament buildings, the Empress Hotel, CPR Steamship terminal Building, Crystal Gardens and many other buildings.

The annex of the Courthouse (on the back) was designed by Thomas Hooper, who was the Architect on the Spencer Building (now SFU harbor center) and the Winch Building (of the Sinclair Center). Both the Courthouse and the Annex (the annex is still left in original condition with court rooms inside) are Heritage buildings.

The VAG building and grounds, including the centennial fountain in the front (celebrating the centennial of the union of the Colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia) and Robson Square (designed by another BC Legend Aurthur Erickson who also worked on the renovations of the buildings into the art gallery) is one of the most significant pieces of BC history in the city.

At one end is the new Courthouse designed by Aurthur Erickson and at the other end is the old Vancouver Courthouse designed by Francis Rattenbury and the annex by Thomas Hooper. It's old meets new. The history of BC contained in those few blocks is staggering, and it's importance to BCers should not be underestimated.

I'm from Vancouver, but what you said was very encouraging. Thank you for that. :)

delboy
Nov 21, 2009, 2:21 AM
I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but I just have to say that the new ice rink which is close to completion looks PHENOMENAL. If anyone's in the neighbourhood, please have a peak. GE and the province have really done a nice job with this... I remember what the old rink used to look like, and it wasn't anywhere close to what we have now.

I agree, there was quite a crowd standing around it today. ANd that best place on earth things has gone, as far as i could tell. I could imagine quiet an atmosphere down there on a xmas night with xmas carols and roasted chestnuts etc.

Yume-sama
Nov 21, 2009, 2:22 AM
They need to open a mini mobile Starbucks by the rink this winter :D :P

SpongeG
Nov 21, 2009, 5:35 AM
ha the GE thing been around it a long time? i only noticed it last week

officedweller
Nov 23, 2009, 1:06 AM
Pic by me tonight:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5726/pb220160.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/pb220160.jpg/)

SFUVancouver
Nov 23, 2009, 1:10 AM
The GE logo is nice a prominent, understandable for the few million they put into the project. Thank you Jack Donaghy!

I am really quite pleased with how the revitalization turned out. I am also thrilled that I didn't see a single nausea-inducing "best place on earth" boast on the Province's signage.

Spork
Nov 23, 2009, 3:53 AM
Pagodas.

That is all.

clooless
Nov 23, 2009, 4:36 AM
Agreed. But at least the hedges are under control.

Locked In
Nov 23, 2009, 6:01 AM
Thanks for the pics - the glow look great at night.

Yume-sama
Nov 23, 2009, 6:07 AM
For a company that promotes "Green" at every turn, through their TV channels (NBC) and otherwise, how much power do you think it takes to keep a skating rink in a moderate climate :P?

trofirhen
Nov 23, 2009, 8:11 AM
For a company that promotes "Green" at every turn, through their TV channels (NBC) and otherwise, how much power do you think it takes to keep a skating rink in a moderate climate :P?

Too much to qualify as "green"

Alex Mackinnon
Nov 23, 2009, 8:39 AM
Probably far less than the output of an average wind turbine.

It really just depends on how much they want to drop on integrating on the cooling and heating systems in Robson Sq.

LotusLand
Nov 23, 2009, 4:17 PM
For those interested or work in the downtown core the GE Ice rink at Robson Square opens today!
http://vancitybuzz.blogspot.com/2009/11/free-public-skating-robson-square.html

SpongeG
Nov 23, 2009, 7:41 PM
New skating rink at Robson Square receives rave reviews

http://www.news1130.com/images/2009/11/RobsonSquareIcerink3.jpg
Olympic Mascot 'Miga' at Robson Square ice rink (News1130 Photo)

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Children and adults alike are already giving the new public skating rink at Robson Square rave reviews. The downtown Vancouver rink was officially re-opened this morning, after being closed for nearly a decade.

It took two million dollars to put the rink back together, but crews did an impressive job, with a winter-themed light show--the rink awash in blue, with images of snowflakes dancing across the ice. Canadian 2008 World Champion champion Jeffrey Buttle was the first to take the new ice surface, putting on a flawless performance. He was followed by a family skate with the Vancouver 2010 Olympic mascots.

The first children to take the ice gave it a big 'thumbs-up'. "It's really amazing...it's really cool how they put this together, because usually it's just a big concrete square." The new ice surface is larger than the old one (37 per cent longer, in fact), and is open each day from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. It is free to the public, with skates available for rent for $3.

The plaza will serve as the centrepiece for B.C.'s activities during the Olympics. GE contributed $700,000 to the project, in return for having naming rights to the plaza until the end of the Paralympic Winter Games in March. News1130 is the official radio station of the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20091123_141447_7660

Delirium
Nov 23, 2009, 7:43 PM
it would appear the province is using a different moto now on the rink;

much better! http://www.flickr.com/photos/rorytait/4128731364/sizes/l/in/set-24013/

Yume-sama
Nov 23, 2009, 8:14 PM
I like that slogan better :)

"You gotta be here!" is way less presumptuous.

Vancity
Nov 23, 2009, 8:16 PM
I wonder if they're going to put some shops in down there around the rink? that'd brighten up the place, and allow people to be there, and hang, along with people who are there to skate.

I'm happy to hear that it'll be open from 9am to 9pm, every day.

Yume-sama
Nov 23, 2009, 8:17 PM
Hmm, I'd doubt that. Unless you could convince someone to run a business that would only have customers 4 months per year.

djh
Nov 23, 2009, 8:26 PM
Hmm, I'd doubt that. Unless you could convince someone to run a business that would only have customers 4 months per year.

Surely the CoV could issue temporary business licences? You see shops pop up every year in October that sell fireworks, every December to sell Christmas trees and every summer to sell ice-cream, so I'm sure they could allow say a coffee shop or food shack to open up in one of the storefronts down there, and throw in a tourist spot too, selling postcards etc. Could be doable and profitable for December '09 - March 2010...

Yume-sama
Nov 23, 2009, 8:29 PM
Some street vendors, I suppose. At the skating rink outside Rockefeller Center (another GE rink :P) in NYC they have Hot Chocolate stands, pretzels, roasted nuts, etc.

Though, it is also connected to the huge food court in Rockefeller Center, that looks out on the rink.

johnjimbc
Nov 23, 2009, 10:20 PM
I kinda hope "You Gotta Be Here" isn't the new slogan. I can't imagine anything more generic. It sounds more like a slogan for a blowout sale at a mall than saying anything evocative about the Province. At least they didn't feel the need to be "hip" and say "U Gotta B Here."

"Best Place on Earth" may be a little pompous, but at least it makes a bold point. I think of mountains, the seashore, etc, etc. Personally, I'm still rather partial to "Beautiful British Columbia" - simple, confident, to the point.

"You Gotta Be Here" makes me think of a bunch of shoes in a half-off bin or balloons over a car dealership. ;)

Stingray2004
Nov 23, 2009, 10:45 PM
"You gotta be here!" is way less presumptuous.

It's probably a 2010 thingy.

IMHO, BC's most effective marketing slogan was the one initiated during the early 1980's:

Super, Natural British Columbia

trofirhen
Nov 23, 2009, 10:59 PM
What about restaurants? High end retail?
I hate to be repetitive, but there would be so much more life down there if there were a connection to to the transit system (as was originally planned, 35 years ago)

Rusty Gull
Nov 23, 2009, 11:04 PM
Super Natural is still the best slogan. Beautiful BC is a classic. But Best Place was the alltime worst, so I'll swallow this new one.

Delirium
Nov 23, 2009, 11:07 PM
high end retail does not bring 'life' to an area. just go to Leone's on hastings and tell me how busy it is.

i'm sure now that the rink is open, it'll be busy. a cafe would be nice though to grab a hot chocolate for the walk home...

Stingray2004
Nov 23, 2009, 11:15 PM
Some street vendors, I suppose. At the skating rink outside Rockefeller Center in NYC they have Hot Chocolate stands, pretzels, roasted nuts, etc.

At a minimum during the Christmas season, those types of offerings should be situate outside the front steps of the Art Gallery and wind their way around toward the skating rink. And then throw in some Christmas carolers.

And the City should install a massive Christmas Tree in the middle of the Art Gallery Plaza:

Voilà, instant magnetic gathering place!

http://www.jmg-galleries.com/blog_images/121506_ny_christmas_madnes_532c.jpg

The City seems to be too politically correct these days, unlike decades past when such Christmas decorations/festivities would have been the case.

Delirium
Nov 23, 2009, 11:29 PM
"And the City should install a massive Christmas Tree in the middle of the Art Gallery Plaza:"

a large christmas tree is installed every year at the art gallery actually. compliments of concert properties i believe.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3252/3134251860_10f544ba5a_o.jpg
photo by tripleman on fickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/tripleman/3134251860/

johnjimbc
Nov 23, 2009, 11:39 PM
I do love that tree, but it would be nice to have some festive display near the new rink. A large tree and a few places for hot cocoa and roasted nuts and popcorn would do wonders for bringing people down to check out the scene.

It would also be nice if the city managed to roll the lift a bit further out of sight this season. I've yet to see a photo without it "lurking" on the side. ;)

Lastly, yeah, I'd have to agree "Super, Natural British Columbia" was the best slogan.

LotusLand
Nov 24, 2009, 12:26 AM
[QUOTE=Delirium;4574414]"And the City should install a massive Christmas Tree in the middle of the Art Gallery Plaza:"

a large christmas tree is installed every year at the art gallery actually. compliments of concert properties i believe.

Actually the tree is courtesy of Amacon and this year it is going up on the 8th. http://vancitybuzz.blogspot.com/2009/11/2009-vancouver-art-gallery-tree.html

AlexYVR
Nov 24, 2009, 12:34 AM
Super Natural is still the best slogan. Beautiful BC is a classic. But Best Place was the alltime worst, so I'll swallow this new one.

Super, Natural was my favourite by far.

SpongeG
Nov 24, 2009, 2:13 AM
and you can buy roasted nuts next to the pagoda if you dare go near them considering so many here seem to be afraid of them ;)

trofirhen
Nov 24, 2009, 2:34 AM
"And the City should install a massive Christmas Tree in the middle of the Art Gallery Plaza:"

a large christmas tree is installed every year at the art gallery actually. compliments of concert properties i believe.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3252/3134251860_10f544ba5a_o.jpg
photo by tripleman on fickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/tripleman/3134251860/

Sure is pretty! With some soft floodlighting on the front of the buiding, it would be magic.

delboy
Nov 24, 2009, 5:52 AM
I kinda hope "You Gotta Be Here" isn't the new slogan. I can't imagine anything more generic. It sounds more like a slogan for a blowout sale at a mall than saying anything evocative about the Province. At least they didn't feel the need to be "hip" and say "U Gotta B Here."

"Best Place on Earth" may be a little pompous, but at least it makes a bold point. I think of mountains, the seashore, etc, etc. Personally, I'm still rather partial to "Beautiful British Columbia" - simple, confident, to the point.

"You Gotta Be Here" makes me think of a bunch of shoes in a half-off bin or balloons over a car dealership. ;)

I always liked the Super Natural BC - catchy and a cleaver play on words.

raggedy13
Nov 24, 2009, 6:17 AM
I took a lot of pics of the new GE Ice Plaza tonight:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2677/4130314454_e2d7b7a672_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2721/4130321096_c7f1035917_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4130322970_9f17eb3657_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2578/4130326208_a157888ee0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4130331360_8168b0cfed_b.jpg

You can get some hot chocolate there after all! Glad they put this in.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2606/4130327684_1729c17cd7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2717/4129564829_651e6de824_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/4130338056_ec5e96ccc9_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2553/4130340088_fe34d3d440_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2741/4130342190_fa5f154035_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2698/4129579203_04e041bc70_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/4129581407_a5d45c63f7_b.jpg

Still the usual break/whatever dancers there doing their thing
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/4130348322_4821281741_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2737/4130350344_2218081068_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2615/4129589611_47d5cb516a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2663/4130360520_ba0391af6c_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2747/4130356702_d6cb99ae02_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2601/4129598795_3bf34bd304_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4129600819_b29a97dfb2_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2524/4129612967_0260be3e16_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/4129616185_6942653fe4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2636/4129617569_84768786a0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2491/4129614665_1e3f3ed25a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2666/4129621305_f24ef040a3_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/4130388754_328ab8439a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2616/4130395308_00484f0b26_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2559/4130404586_ca69f8c06a.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2564/4130400682_3644d0fa25_b.jpg

Couldn't see a ton through the glass but at least there are no hedges in the way
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2616/4130402756_6fbf394662_b.jpg

mr.x
Nov 24, 2009, 6:32 AM
What a beauty....but it could've been so much more had the larger roof over Robson been built. The rink could have been bigger with that roof, and almost all of the plaza would have been protected from the elements.

Still, i look forward to skating there next month.



http://newyork.timeout.com/newyork/resizeImage/htdocs/export_images/684/684.x600.otc.icerinks.rockcent.jpg

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2009, 6:41 AM
I am impressed :) It looks great!

deasine
Nov 24, 2009, 7:05 AM
I can't wait to skate on the ice there! Begin countdown 'till the end of school.

mr.x
Nov 24, 2009, 7:14 AM
Does anyone know how extensive the renovations inside the UBC Robson Square campus are?

Vancity
Nov 24, 2009, 7:35 AM
What about restaurants? High end retail?
I hate to be repetitive, but there would be so much more life down there if there were a connection to to the transit system (as was originally planned, 35 years ago)

They could probably still make that happen, no?

Hed Kandi
Nov 24, 2009, 9:59 AM
Great concept - Flawed execution.

That rink should have been built to a minimum of international ice hockey measurements - or not at all.

Delirium
Nov 24, 2009, 2:01 PM
bitch bitch bitch. some people are never happy...
But thanks Raggedy13 for the great pics! you take night shots really well.

anyway, for something that's only open 3 months a year, this serves its purpose well and looks great. nice to see there's a cafe too.

oh wait. it's not international hockey sized and there's no Gucci store and no connection to Pacific Centre. Scratch what I said. This is a colossus failure :rolleyes:

deasine
Nov 24, 2009, 4:33 PM
Great concept - Flawed execution.

That rink should have been built to a minimum of international ice hockey measurements - or not at all.

Yeah... no. Why, may I ask, does it have to be built to "minimum [...] international ice hockey measurements?" I'll take this any day over "not at all..."

twoNeurons
Nov 24, 2009, 5:19 PM
Yeah! And why isn't it open year round!!! I wanna go skating in July!
:D

jsbertram
Nov 24, 2009, 5:41 PM
I always liked the Super Natural BC - catchy and a cleaver play on words.

My roomie at University had an aerial-view poster of Wreck Beach with everyone waving at the camera, with the caption "Super, au Naturale BC".

We still laugh remembering his moms reaction the first time she visited.

jsbertram
Nov 24, 2009, 5:49 PM
What about restaurants? High end retail?
I hate to be repetitive, but there would be so much more life down there if there were a connection to to the transit system (as was originally planned, 35 years ago)

All we need is to get the Robson Subway built as planned, and this area can be converted into the subway station entrance as Erickson originally envisioned.

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2009, 7:04 PM
Great concept - Flawed execution.

That rink should have been built to a minimum of international ice hockey measurements - or not at all.

Even GM Place is not built to international ice hockey measurements, and will be the first Olympics in modern history where they have compromised and allowed NHL sized ice.

Arenas like the Saddledome (1988 Olympics, they had International ice) and ACC in Toronto are capable of having both, GM Place is not.

Do you have any idea just how BIG NHL ice is let alone international ice?

WarrenC12
Nov 24, 2009, 7:14 PM
Even GM Place is not built to international ice hockey measurements, and will be the first Olympics in modern history where they have compromised and allowed NHL sized ice.

Arenas like the Saddledome (1988 Olympics, they had International ice) and ACC in Toronto are capable of having both, GM Place is not.

Do you have any idea just how BIG NHL ice is let alone international ice?

I'm not sure I agree with the decision not to go with the international ice size in 2010. And I call BS that it "wasn't possible" at GM Place. It takes away a lot of lower bowl ticket sales though...

Another ridiculous comment by Hed Kandi. :rolleyes:

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2009, 7:16 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the decision not to go with the international ice size in 2010. And I call BS that it "wasn't possible" at GM Place. It takes away a lot of lower bowl ticket sales though...

Another ridiculous comment by Hed Kandi. :rolleyes:

The ice in the Saddledome actually extends under the players benches and first few rows all around so they could be taken away, and the boards moved back.

This is not possible in GM Place because the ice ends at the boards. It would have costs *millions* of dollars to make it compatible.

johnjimbc
Nov 24, 2009, 7:18 PM
We are still talking about Robson Square, aren't we? If so, neither the NHL or Olympic size ice rink was possible in that rather narrow passage under the street . . . a little thing called physical reality prevents it ;). I think that was the point of Yume-sama's comment (correct me if I'm mistaken . . . it wouldn't be the first time ;)).

SpongeG
Nov 24, 2009, 9:20 PM
its good to see it used agin - sat empty for too long

officedweller
Nov 24, 2009, 9:51 PM
There are still huge tarps up all over the complex.

Pic by me today - note that all of the bare concrete surfaces are being covered by wraps:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1293/pb240161.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/pb240161.jpg/)

vanman
Nov 24, 2009, 10:55 PM
bitch bitch bitch. some people are never happy...
But thanks Raggedy13 for the great pics! you take night shots really well.

anyway, for something that's only open 3 months a year, this serves its purpose well and looks great. nice to see there's a cafe too.

oh wait. it's not international hockey sized and there's no Gucci store and no connection to Pacific Centre. Scratch what I said. This is a colossus failure :rolleyes:

Hahaha. I was seriously toying with the idea of creating an all encompassing whine/bitch thread so that all the negative Nancys and Debbie Downers here could have a place to bemoan and loathe every concievable aspect of Vancouver.

Btw the renovation of Robson Square look great, much better than what I was expecting.

rbostyle
Nov 25, 2009, 12:24 AM
One thing about Robson Square that I'm occasionally asking myself, is why no one has proposed removing the "grassy knoll" on the southeast corner of Robson and Hornby (or at least I've not come across any such thing). There's never enough room on the sidewalk on that side, being elevated and dark at night it's not the most secure feeling area to walk past (let alone up into), and I honestly don't see much purpose in it except maybe for nearby office workers to eat lunch in a secluded spot. Or for workers of late night professions to do their business.

Now I'm all for nature, but if we're wanting to make Robson Square into a thriving city square, removing that mound of dirt and replacing it with some nice pavers, and a pile of chairs/some tables is perhaps one of the cheapest actions, with one of the most visible results... there'd no longer be such crowding on the sidewalk/no need to step in front of traffic, it'd be a place for people to hang out, people watch, AND small performances could be made even bigger, with spectators sitting on the steps of the annex. At the same time, it would make the entirety of Robson Square much more visible, approachable, and 'explorable'.

Just look at the photo posted above and see if you don't agree.

Makes sense, non?

LotusLand
Nov 25, 2009, 12:45 AM
^ makes sense to me as I think it takes away from that side of the square as people are naturally gravitated to the VAG steps. I say take that down and have that be a place to sit, play chess in the summers and for street entertainers etc.. I don't know but that is a great point you brought up. They also need to do something about the grass on the Georgia street side of the square *yuck* either lose it or maintain it!

Hed Kandi
Nov 25, 2009, 1:12 AM
Do you have any idea just how BIG NHL ice is let alone international ice?

NHL : 26 m (85 ft) x 60 m (200 ft)
International: 30 m (98 ft) x 60 m (200 ft)

trofirhen
Nov 25, 2009, 1:56 AM
All we need is to get the Robson Subway built as planned, and this area can be converted into the subway station entrance as Erickson originally envisioned.

The Robson Subway? May I ask if you're being facetious, or serious? With the Canada line now built, the Robson Subway is the stuff of past dreams (unless you mean something other than a line parallel to the Canada Line; if you're serious, I'd like to know what you mean) But theoretically, you have a great point. It would be a focal point of downtown.

^ makes sense to me as I think it takes away from that side of the square as people are naturally gravitated to the VAG steps. I say take that down and have that be a place to sit, play chess in the summers and for street entertainers etc.. I don't know but that is a great point you brought up. They also need to do something about the grass on the Georgia street side of the square *yuck* either lose it or maintain it!

The Georgia Street side is *yucko*, and all the worse, as Georgia is the main downtown drag. I wish they'd refurbish that whole side of the square with lighting, stone paving, possible a different fountain more in keeping with the classical bulding style, a classier more inviting "front door," an outdoor capuccino bar in summer .....

But yes! Please, City Hall, cut the grass and fix up your front yard, so to speak !!

BCPhil
Nov 25, 2009, 10:04 AM
One thing about Robson Square that I'm occasionally asking myself, is why no one has proposed removing the "grassy knoll" on the southeast corner of Robson and Hornby (or at least I've not come across any such thing).

Because Arthur Erickson designed it like that.



The Georgia Street side is *yucko*, and all the worse, as Georgia is the main downtown drag. I wish they'd refurbish that whole side of the square with lighting, stone paving, possible a different fountain more in keeping with the classical bulding style, a classier more inviting "front door," an outdoor capuccino bar in summer .....


The VAG is in a Francis Rattenbury building (built 1906) that used to be the Old Law Courts, it doesn't need to be "classier and inviting", it needs to be historic. The fountain is the Centennial Fountain, laid in 1966 to commemorate the centennial of the union of the colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia (not of Canada or Confederation, it represents a BC moment); it's not going anywhere. Have you ever even seen the mosaic at the bottom of the fountain?

"He re-introduced a spiritual dimension to architecture," says architectural historian, curator and author of Arthur Erickson: Critical Works, Nicholas Olsberg of Erickson's landmark Robson Square development. "Before the NDP came to power in 1972, the Social Credit government was going to build a huge tower. Arthur came in and said 'This won't be a corporate monument. Let's turn it on its side and let people walk all over it.' And he anchored it in such a way with the courts — the law — at one end and the museum — the arts — at the other. The foundations of society. And underneath it all, the government offices quietly supporting their people. It's an almost a spiritual progression."

Sometimes you just have to leave things the way they were designed and built, or else you lose a little bit of history... and we have already lost A LOT of history, and amazing buildings, in this city.

EdinVan
Nov 25, 2009, 1:15 PM
The mosaic tile at the base of the fountain is, indeed, beautiful. Looks even better when the water is running.

I've since learned that the reason the fountain has been shut down is because it was vandalized. Apparently it won't be up and running again until next March. So now the entire plaza is completely bereft of life. No water, no lighting, no nice landscaping, not even decent signage.

Delirium
Nov 25, 2009, 2:29 PM
i think the north lawn of the VAG has been left bare intentionally because the area has become a regular gathering spot for protests and demonstrations. everything from the monthly meeting spot of Vancouver's Critical Mass, as well as flash mob demonstrations, the Zombie Walk, Pro-Marijuana rallies, and numerous environmental demonstrations.

so doesn't make much sense to have pretty landscaping everywhere to get trampled on.

i remember seeing renderings long time ago that showed the north lawn covered in granite and small fountains (akin to dundas square in TO).
what ever happened to that proposal?

trofirhen
Nov 25, 2009, 3:13 PM
i think the north lawn of the VAG has been left bare intentionally because the area has become a regular gathering spot for protests and demonstrations. everything from the monthly meeting spot of Vancouver's Critical Mass, as well as flash mob demonstrations, the Zombie Walk, Pro-Marijuana rallies, and numerous environmental demonstrations.

so doesn't make much sense to have pretty landscaping everywhere to get trampled on.

i remember seeing renderings long time ago that showed the north lawn covered in granite and small fountains (akin to dundas square in TO).
what ever happened to that proposal?

Years back, as a an independent civic activist, I approached Joyce Catliff of the Vancouver Planning Commission, Anthony Norfolk of the Arts Council, and the then-curator of the VAG, Willard Homes.

There was a seminar held at the VAG, with interest groups from different backrounds expressing what they would like to see done with the plaza.

There were differing concepts, of course, but several points were consistent with ALL groups involved. Everybody's opinion converged in
certain areas.

1: Light up the front of the building in an elegant way, focussing on the
colums, and in particular the sentinel lions.

2: Make the square more "pedestrian friendly" with stone paving areas
and possibly a small outdooor restaurant / capuccino bar for warm
weather.

3: Regarding the fountain, as historic as it is, EVERYBODY agreed that
the stone sculptures were not in keeping (that is, they clashed) with
the 18th century, neo-classical design of the building, and,
furthermore, looked out of place in the Palladian fountain pond.

It was suggested that the sculpture be relocated to another location
- and there ARE other locations to be had - and that a more classical
fountain be built, same pool, same beautiful tiles, but different lighting
- soft white or pastels, and not the harsh red, yellow and blue primary
colours used now.

4: That trees be planted around the edge of the square and that they be
lit up from below using spotlights embedded in the pavement. This not
only enhances the beauty of the trees, but is a subtle yet effective
way of keeping the square accessible and lit up, to discourage people
from sleeping on it or riding their skateboards across it, etc.

5: That the square be "levelled out." That is, remove the small up-and
-down surfaces and trip-up steps of the plaza, remove the railings,
which are only an
impediment, and make the square level.

6: When repaving the square, use granite or some other stone, and NOT
concrete, in order to complement the elegance of the building, and to
remain in keeping with the classical aspect of it.

7: To encourage that the square not be used for demonstrations and rallies,
but that it be an inviting place, enjoyable for the citizens, attractive to
tourists, and a magent for photographers.

8: The Arts Council, the city planners, and the Art Gallery Director all
wanted to take action as soon as possible, but it was held up, and is still
hed up, by the fact that the square is leased from the BCBC (British
Columbia Buildings Corporation) who would not make a move on the issue.

As such, Georgia Square (the working title given to the unrealized project), remains a dream, and nothing has changed in twenty years, wheres we were all hoping for something within three years from the date of the seminar. It has been disappointing. Perhaps if the legal obstacles can be overcome, Georgia Square will become a reality; the jewel, the "heart" of downtown Vancouver.

SpongeG
Nov 25, 2009, 7:18 PM
One thing about Robson Square that I'm occasionally asking myself, is why no one has proposed removing the "grassy knoll" on the southeast corner of Robson and Hornby (or at least I've not come across any such thing). There's never enough room on the sidewalk on that side, being elevated and dark at night it's not the most secure feeling area to walk past (let alone up into), and I honestly don't see much purpose in it except maybe for nearby office workers to eat lunch in a secluded spot. Or for workers of late night professions to do their business.

Now I'm all for nature, but if we're wanting to make Robson Square into a thriving city square, removing that mound of dirt and replacing it with some nice pavers, and a pile of chairs/some tables is perhaps one of the cheapest actions, with one of the most visible results... there'd no longer be such crowding on the sidewalk/no need to step in front of traffic, it'd be a place for people to hang out, people watch, AND small performances could be made even bigger, with spectators sitting on the steps of the annex. At the same time, it would make the entirety of Robson Square much more visible, approachable, and 'explorable'.

Just look at the photo posted above and see if you don't agree.

Makes sense, non?

i would love to see it gone - i always see rats in there or people doing naughty things

officedweller
Nov 25, 2009, 9:52 PM
I see rats running in and out of that grassy knoll all the time.

There was a proposal a fews years back to build glass box retail pavillions on Robson - one on the site of the grassy know, and another on the site of... the pagoda ... on the north side of the street at Howe.

Anyone still have copies of those renders?

I think it is alluded to in the MOU mentioned here (dating back to the year 2000):
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/001205/A5.htm

****

Shame about the grass on the north lawn being allowed to go brown and die. I remember years ago there was a small plastic chain fence that used to blcok pedestrians from cutting diagnally across it - that's when it was healthy grass and on summer days people would lie out on the grass. A couple of years ago, they gave in and installed paving stones to form a diagonal path across the lawn. That was the death knell for it, I guess.

itinerant
Nov 25, 2009, 10:10 PM
i would love to see it gone - i always see rats in there or people doing naughty things

The grassy knoll is a key element to the landscape vision of the Robson Square as an urban park, and would truly suck if it were ever considered expendable. Isn't it bad enough that the buildings are now encircled by new barred fences and superfluous glass railings? The knoll is in need of minor maintenance, but otherwise the plantings are mature and generally in good health. I think Cornelia Hahn Oberlander would have a thing or two to say about modifications if you dare ask her. Although Arthur is gone, she is still very actively looking after one of her creations.

itinerant
Nov 25, 2009, 10:15 PM
Years back, as a an independent civic activist, I approached Joyce Catliff of the Vancouver Planning Commission, Anthony Norfolk of the Arts Council, and the then-curator of the VAG, Willard Homes.

There was a seminar held at the VAG, with interest groups from different backrounds expressing what they would like to see done with the plaza.

There were differing concepts, of course, but several points were consistent with ALL groups involved. Everybody's opinion converged in
certain areas.

1: Light up the front of the building in an elegant way, focussing on the
colums, and in particular the sentinel lions.

2: Make the square more "pedestrian friendly" with stone paving areas
and possibly a small outdooor restaurant / capuccino bar for warm
weather.

3: Regarding the fountain, as historic as it is, EVERYBODY agreed that
the stone sculptures were not in keeping (that is, they clashed) with
the 18th century, neo-classical design of the building, and,
furthermore, looked out of place in the Palladian fountain pond.

It was suggested that the sculpture be relocated to another location
- and there ARE other locations to be had - and that a more classical
fountain be built, same pool, same beautiful tiles, but different lighting
- soft white or pastels, and not the harsh red, yellow and blue primary
colours used now.

4: That trees be planted around the edge of the square and that they be
lit up from below using spotlights embedded in the pavement. This not
only enhances the beauty of the trees, but is a subtle yet effective
way of keeping the square accessible and lit up, to discourage people
from sleeping on it or riding their skateboards across it, etc.

5: That the square be "levelled out." That is, remove the small up-and
-down surfaces and trip-up steps of the plaza, remove the railings,
which are only an
impediment, and make the square level.

6: When repaving the square, use granite or some other stone, and NOT
concrete, in order to complement the elegance of the building, and to
remain in keeping with the classical aspect of it.

7: To encourage that the square not be used for demonstrations and rallies,
but that it be an inviting place, enjoyable for the citizens, attractive to
tourists, and a magent for photographers.

8: The Arts Council, the city planners, and the Art Gallery Director all
wanted to take action as soon as possible, but it was held up, and is still
hed up, by the fact that the square is leased from the BCBC (British
Columbia Buildings Corporation) who would not make a move on the issue.

As such, Georgia Square (the working title given to the unrealized project), remains a dream, and nothing has changed in twenty years, wheres we were all hoping for something within three years from the date of the seminar. It has been disappointing. Perhaps if the legal obstacles can be overcome, Georgia Square will become a reality; the jewel, the "heart" of downtown Vancouver.

I've had similar desires to see the plaza at the Georgia Street side remodeled, and hadn't realized BCBC was the holdup. Not sure I'd agree the fountain (so not entirely unanimous) is so drastically inappropriate, but a leveling of the square surrounding plantings, removal of grass in the centre in favour of a stone surface would be great!

Relocation of the flagpole to front and centre on Georgia (as it once was, when it was much much bigger) would be good. Maybe someone can find a photo that shows this older version of the square?

trofirhen
Nov 25, 2009, 10:57 PM
I've had similar desires to see the plaza at the Georgia Street side remodeled, and hadn't realized BCBC was the holdup. Not sure I'd agree the fountain (so not entirely unanimous) is so drastically inappropriate, but a leveling of the square surrounding plantings, removal of grass in the centre in favour of a stone surface would be great!

Relocation of the flagpole to front and centre on Georgia (as it once was, when it was much much bigger) would be good. Maybe someone can find a photo that shows this older version of the square?

Thanks for the feedback. Just don't forget about lighting up the lions!! :)

EdinVan
Nov 25, 2009, 11:07 PM
The grassy knoll is a key element to the landscape vision of the Robson Square as an urban park, and would truly suck if it were ever considered expendable. Isn't it bad enough that the buildings are now encircled by new barred fences and superfluous glass railings? The knoll is in need of minor maintenance, but otherwise the plantings are mature and generally in good health. I think Cornelia Hahn Oberlander would have a thing or two to say about modifications if you dare ask her. Although Arthur is gone, she is still very actively looking after one of her creations.

I think I heard her on CBC radio once refer to the "modifications" as "incremental intrusions".

hollywoodnorth
Nov 25, 2009, 11:32 PM
There was a proposal a fews years back to build glass box retail pavillions on Robson - one on the site of the grassy know, and another on the site of... the pagoda ... on the north side of the street at Howe.


ya I was sad to see that proposal die. would have modernized the rRobson street scape quite a bit.

Overground
Nov 25, 2009, 11:44 PM
I can't find those renderings anywhere but it looked cool from what I remember. 2 stories, box-like, with lots of glass?

officedweller
Nov 26, 2009, 12:21 AM
That's what I remember too.

hollywoodnorth
Nov 26, 2009, 7:51 PM
yup with some restaurant space as well with roof top access. I think there was also a few photos in an old Colliers or DTZ Barnicke market report.....maybe that would be the best place to dig one up.

Prometheus
Nov 29, 2009, 4:07 AM
More evidence of new life in the renovated square:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/susangittins/4138215727/sizes/l/

David
Nov 29, 2009, 6:43 AM
That's me on the very right of that picture! Haha!

It certainly was an awesome feeling to be skating at Robson Square while that band played.

mcminsen
Nov 29, 2009, 9:53 AM
I walked by on Robson St. on Friday night about 6:30 and it was really hopping. A band was playing (not sure if it was the same one pictured) and there were lots of people skating and lots up top watching through the dome. Very festive! :-)

SpongeG
Nov 29, 2009, 11:48 AM
i took a pic from the top around 12:30 ish must be the same band

Delirium
Nov 29, 2009, 1:40 PM
every time i've walked by, the skating rink is packed! it's definitely a success and will only get busier as more people find out about it.

i don't know who that band is but man, they need a change of clothing.
looks like they're going to a funeral after the gig -

nova9
Nov 29, 2009, 5:37 PM
Here's my iphone/twitpic of the rink with a growing crowd on friday at like 6pm.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/45759403.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1259545327&Signature=eelCYstJPDWHXOWmyAyixrQDmeo%3D

[how about now?]

mr.x
Nov 29, 2009, 7:57 PM
^ can't see pic.

SFUVancouver
Nov 29, 2009, 9:24 PM
My buddy went on an ice skating date there on Saturday and said it was madness. The place was so packed that they barely had any room to move. None the less they had a great time and the rainy day didn't even factor into the equation.

nova9
Nov 30, 2009, 1:32 AM
^ can't see pic.

How about now?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/45759403.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1259545327&Signature=eelCYstJPDWHXOWmyAyixrQDmeo%3D

If not, it might be a twitter account thing (like only if you're signed into twitter) I'll try to find an alternative hosting thing.

trofirhen
Nov 30, 2009, 5:36 AM
Glad to hear some positive vibes coming from the Robson Square thread. Everybody was so down on it a while back when the clamshell roof got nixed, but now, with the expanded skating rink and the enlarged glass domes, lit up blue at night, plus the activities there, the tone seems to be changing.

One thing to keep in mind is this; there are numerous cities comparable to Vancouver in size (often in the USA) that have such decrepit and ugly downtowns, that they would KILL for something like Robson Square, even though we gripe about it. (Ever been to downtown Oakland, CA?)

Sure it isn't "perfect" and there are things that could improve it greatly even more, but please let's be thankful that we have the "raw materials," a space to work with. Among other things, addressing the Georgia Street side of the Square would be timely.

A bit of lighting and elegance never hurt a downtown heritage building (at least not that I'm aware of)

SFUVancouver
Nov 30, 2009, 7:53 PM
^ You make a good point. We have a pretty spectacular downtown, period. Let alone for a North American city of our size, age, economy and location.

Yume-sama
Nov 30, 2009, 8:03 PM
Glad to hear some positive vibes coming from the Robson Square thread. Everybody was so down on it a while back when the clamshell roof got nixed, but now, with the expanded skating rink and the enlarged glass domes, lit up blue at night, plus the activities there, the tone seems to be changing.

One thing to keep in mind is this; there are numerous cities comparable to Vancouver in size (often in the USA) that have such decrepit and ugly downtowns, that they would KILL for something like Robson Square, even though we gripe about it. (Ever been to downtown Oakland, CA?)

Sure it isn't "perfect" and there are things that could improve it greatly even more, but please let's be thankful that we have the "raw materials," a space to work with. Among other things, addressing the Georgia Street side of the Square would be timely.

A bit of lighting and elegance never hurt a downtown heritage building (at least not that I'm aware of)

:banana: I agree! I've been in a lot of Downtowns... and they all sucked. Except of course for some of those that have between 3 and 30 million population. But even downtown Los Angeles is "meh".

It's unreasonable to think we should have everything New York, Chicago, or Tokyo have. When they have MILLIONS of people, and we have about 600,000 in Vancouver proper.

Most tourists who come to Vancouver think we're a lot bigger on the population scale than we are. Because, well, there are actually PEOPLE downtown, which they're not used to seeing at home.

Rusty Gull
Nov 30, 2009, 8:44 PM
:banana: I agree! I've been in a lot of Downtowns... and they all sucked. Except of course for some of those that have between 3 and 30 million population. But even downtown Los Angeles is "meh".

It's unreasonable to think we should have everything New York, Chicago, or Tokyo have. When they have MILLIONS of people, and we have about 600,000 in Vancouver proper.

Good points, but I think we shouldn't lower our expectations either. Canadian cities by nature are generally more dynamic than U.S cities of the same size. (that's not to say we shouldn't be learning from cities like San Francisco, DC, Chicago, NYC, Portland).

Let's look to Europe and Asia, where smaller cities also lay claim to first class transportation networks and thriving city cores. If we keep benchmarking our cities against the US, we'll just be (dangerously) patting ourselves on the back, while the rest of the world roars ahead both countries.

SpongeG
Nov 30, 2009, 8:49 PM
portland was like a ghosttown at night - nice during the day but dead at night