Robson Square Renovations

[dreambrother808]

The Cambie location would nice but not really a substitute for the Robson one. I just don't see how the foot traffic is ever going to match Robson Square no matter what is built there.

[Zassk]

Close Robson and run a streetcar or LRT down the whole length of it, from Denman to the stadium.

[twoNeurons]

Not to worry... Erickson will fade in peoples memories soon enough. How many architects from the 70s do you actually remember?

People come and go... no matter how much effort they make to make their mark, very very few... apart from the most notorious of the notorious get remembered... and not for something positive. Note, I'm not saying that there's no point in trying... just that people's memories fade very quickly after you're gone. Life goes on, and things that were all so important no longer are.

[BCPhil]

Actually - Robson Square was originally designed to be closed to traffic. So it would be, you know, a plaza. Part of the reason it's always been dysfunctional as a public space is because we've got a road running through it.

The fact that this 'stupid' thing is constantly jam-pakced with people lounging and relaxing would seem to indicate that it does fill a need.

I would humbly suggest that every other street downtown accommodates cars - I don't think it's unreasonable to have 1 block of space to chill.

I think this fake beach shows something is missing from the square. People are laying of dog urine infested carpet because that is all there is. People like sitting around, and that is something Robson Square doesn't do. You don't need to close the street to cars, you need to open the space for sitting. Instead of building a plywood eyesore, they could have removed the waist high rat infested bushes and plant actual grass.

The demand for something soft to sit on only shows that the redesigned missed the mark. If they had put in a grassy hill instead of a bushy hill, we wouldn't need this thing sitting in the road.

I FULLLLLY agree ... he majorly missed the mark. The layout and function and materials used ... are so very piss poor. the upkeep was below par (hedges left to grow wild for crack heads to use as cover, etc) and that helped to turn it into the eye sore it was before this reno started ... but still.

SUB PAR DESIGN for such a important space in the city. End of story

I think the rest of the square offers potential. The space under the street with the spectator seating like stairs makes for good space for buskers (The busiest buskers I've seen in Vancouver this year have been showing in the square down there). It is a good space for small concerts. The ice rink is great for skating in the winter (they should have some outdoor hockey on it this year!) and a few weeks ago is it was being used as a massive dance floor. You could also use the space for outdoor farmers markets without having to hire security and police to close streets. Part of the problem with setting up small events downtown is the cost, to the event and to society. A semi underground, large space can provide a multitude of uses that aren't available anywhere else downtown.

The space has potential, all it is lacking is lounging space, as this monument to ineptitude shows. I don't think this fake beach itself is horrible; I just think it is horrible that IT IS NEEDED! If that hill was grassy instead of bushy, people would lay there, sit there, eat there, and hang out on it, instead of requiring some fake, hill like, object.

Close Robson and run a streetcar or LRT down the whole length of it, from Denman to the stadium.

I agree. I think it would be great if Robson was closed to all except transit, trolley buses for now, and a streetcar in the future, would be perfect.

[SpongeG]

they have a market every weekend already - i don't think anyone is supporting it though - when i have walked past it looked dead

[SpongeG]

800-block of Robson Street has become a political football

If you're familiar with Robson Street in Vancouver, you probably know that the 800-block has been closed to cars for almost two years now. During the 2010 Olympics it became the "heart of the city" as the Province of B.C. sponsored nightly fireworks shows and the very popular Ziptrek line at the site.
With the City of Vancouver about to re-open the street to vehicular traffic in a few weeks, the debate about the future of this part of our road network has begun to flare up once again.

...

http://www.citycaucus.com/2011/08/800-block-of-robson-st-a-political-football

[WBC]

I think 800 block of Robson is getting closed permanently! Woho - first public square in Vancouver

[SpongeG]

what is jack poole plaza if its not a public if its not a public square?

[Pinion]

^It's a public square, but on the edge of a sleepy residential/tourist area and is barely more than a tourist trap thanks to the olympic cauldron.

The Iranian ex-pat anti-government protests were there. Can't think of much else.

[WarrenC12]

Canada Day and COV Birthday stuff was there. It's more for the "organized parties" whereas Robson is just where people hang out.

[WBC]

While there were some plazas and public squares around before they have been notoriously underused as they are out of the way of big crowds (for example plaza by the Waterfront Center).

I hope that this is the fist step and the gradually we can turn parts of Robson into a pedestrian only street or in the worst case into a transit mall.

[Zassk]

Why did we pay money to rebuild the roadway if it is never going to be used as a roadway again? Surely this is a grand waste of money? If the block is to be closed permanently, the space could have been redesigned in many better ways. It seems to me that this idea is 5 years and millions of dollars late.

[jsbertram]

Why did we pay money to rebuild the roadway if it is never going to be used as a roadway again? Surely this is a grand waste of money? If the block is to be closed permanently, the space could have been redesigned in many better ways. It seems to me that this idea is 5 years and millions of dollars late.

Even if this block of Robson was closed to private vehicles, the road (in some shape or form) would still need to be there for the trolley buses and emergency vehicles.

[SpongeG]

that plaza by the convention centre is always busy - people lounging, hanging out all the time - its less intimidating than hanging out next to the street kids and pot heads who hang out at the VAG

[jlousa]

The convention centre plaza will certainly be much busier once the seaplane terminal moves over as well as that Cactus Club and the Harbour Green restaurant open up.

Just not a fan of Robson Square, it's not a public square no matter how much people want it to be. It will always be a half assed attempt, and if there is a need for a square then lets build one. We seem to be more of a city of many small plazas rather then a large square in my opinion.

[dreambrother808]

that plaza by the convention centre is always busy - people lounging, hanging out all the time - its less intimidating than hanging out next to the street kids and pot heads who hang out at the VAG

Robson Square has been full of all kinds of people this summer. Absolutely nothing to be intimidated by...

[s211]

Robson Square has been full of all kinds of people this summer. Absolutely nothing to be intimidated by...

The intimidators had to move because their beloved staircase was off limits.

[LeftCoaster]

that plaza by the convention centre is always busy - people lounging, hanging out all the time - its less intimidating than hanging out next to the street kids and pot heads who hang out at the VAG

Intimidated by pot heads?

I'd only be concerned if I were a 6' tall hot dog or made of chocolate.

[trofirhen]

The convention centre plaza will certainly be much busier once the seaplane terminal moves over as well as that Cactus Club and the Harbour Green restaurant open up.

Just not a fan of Robson Square, it's not a public square no matter how much people want it to be. It will always be a half assed attempt, and if there is a need for a square then lets build one. We seem to be more of a city of many small plazas rather then a large square in my opinion.

Agreed. I think much of the fanfare was generated by the fact that Erickson Himself designed it.

Interestingly (going back a few years) I remember the central Hötorget plaza in Stockholm at night. There was nothing seemingly menacing about it, but it was empty, with bored kids playing going down the up escalator and such. It was a banal, disappointing atmoshere.

Hopefully, a major, interesting, institution of some sort could open at RS, and be a real crowd-pleaser, bringing life back to the square.

(... nevertheless, do you you remember the bleak, ugly, moonscape that preceded it? All things are relative ...) ;)

[SpongeG]

Intimidated by pot heads?

I'd only be concerned if I were a 6' tall hot dog or made of chocolate.

i'm not intimidated by anything - but tourists are and family types are and those VAG step people scare them

i met a japanese guy and his japanese guide book told him to basically stay away from chinatown and that area as it is very bad and we walked down there and I was like okay this is the area your guide book told you not to go to and he was like oh, its not too bad, we walked right through pigeon park past some whatevers doing their thing on the benches

[dreambrother808]

So sit somewhere else other than the stairs... Problem solved. I don't know anyone who was scared of these things, btw. If someone's going to be that uptight about life then well that's their problem, frankly.

[SpongeG]

there really isn't anywhere else - isn't that the whole point of this discussion? it's not welcoming in the sense that there is nowhere to sit and hang out down there and thats why this plywood/shag fake beach is so popular

[Overground]

I walked by the yellow carpet yesterday and the only thing it was attracting was homeless people with their personal belongings strewn across it. Not that I have anything against homeless people being comfortable, but you wouldn't get me touching that turf even with a 10ft barge pole.

[IanS]

I walked by the yellow carpet yesterday and the only thing it was attracting was homeless people with their personal belongings strewn across it. Not that I have anything against homeless people being comfortable, but you wouldn't get me touching that turf even with a 10ft barge pole.

Yeah. I walk there fairly early every morning and it's pretty ugly. If people could see what that thing looks like first thing in the morning, I suspect they wouldn't be so quick to eat their lunches on it later in the day.

[SpongeG]

haha

did anyone see the al fresco dinner party they had down there on robson street? they had a long table and people sat on the street - looking like some kind of potluck dinner thing - very hippie dippie love in but not with hippies think yoga moms and trendsters

[Smooth]

Robson's "fake beach" a good place for the homeless to sleep
VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)

8/31/2011

It was designed to be a nice place to enjoy a cup of coffee or lunch, but a pop-up beach picnic area, dubbed "picnurbia", has ended up being a comfortable place for street youth to sleep.

Twelve people were counted sleeping on the structure along Robson street this morning.

But the area will be taken down this weekend, so people like Josh will have to find a new place to rest his head.

He says he won't be going to a shelter.

Josh says, "there are some people that are in shelters that are using shelter as a gateway to access people who can be easily harmed or manipulated, like vulnerable people, so there's some drug dealers or pimps, or something like that, that are working out of shelters."

In contrast, Josh says those sleeping in "picnurbia" are safe, especially considering the heavy police presence in the area.
http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1530908

[PROSTSHOCKER]

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1530908

I was pretty elated to see it being used by those guys. Even walked by smiling at them as they all huddled around one of them to watch downloaded cartoons on their laptop computer. It all just appeared to me as more evidence of how much of a social collective that site has become. Then one guy noticed me, stashed his guitar and removed his baller cap/hat, outstretching it toward me in a gesture to recieve money, street begger style.
I laughed at the sheer awfulness of the moment then and there. Had I not been out with friends there, I would've fumed at that.

I just kind of turned to my friends and went "Cmon man, you have a guitar and a laptop there, I am not giving you money. I don't even have a laptop myself."

[trofirhen]

... is the night lighting at Robson Square more or less the same as it was five years ago? I know a circular overhead light at the skating rink went in, and the skylights are blue now.

Nevertheless, is there any other "brightening it up" that's happened? It'd be interesting to see.

[subdude]

Thank god - back to normal. News1130 says Robson is open again...

[SpongeG]

... is the night lighting at Robson Square more or less the same as it was five years ago? I know a circular overhead light at the skating rink went in, and the skylights are blue now.

Nevertheless, is there any other "brightening it up" that's happened? It'd be interesting to see.

it's brighter than it used to be, I can't really describe what has been done but its much brighter now than pre-olympics

[Conrad Yablonski]

Will try to have a closer look next I'm through there-walked through last week and Yes it's open but nothing struck me as different at all.

[Sir Conga]

The lit-up stairs on the south side look fantastic... I'm looking forward to taking a closer look.

[Login650]

It might be helpful for everyone to stop referring to the recent construction at Robson Square as a 'redesign' since it was not. Nothing was changed. They were simply replacing the waterproofing membrane that keeps everything below dry.

Except for the ice rink upgrades made for the Olympics (separate project), the square was put back exactly as it was before, down to every scraggly bush. I personally think the reconstruction was a great opportunity to make it a better space, but it wasn't taken advantage of.

[Conrad Yablonski]

It might be helpful for everyone to stop referring to the recent construction at Robson Square as a 'redesign' since it was not. Nothing was changed. They were simply replacing the waterproofing membrane that keeps everything below dry.

Thanks for that-I just walked through in one direction and cycled through in the other not an hour I ago and couldn't see anything different at all. :shrug:

[Pinion]

The big glass domes were replaced too. They were brown, ugly and very 70s-80s looking. Now they're bluey and inoffensive. That's... almost something.

[Vancity]

The big glass domes were replaced too. They were brown, ugly and very 70s-80s looking. Now they're bluey and inoffensive. That's... almost something.

*yawn*

haha. well, there were some minor upgrades. nothing special, i guess.

[SpongeG]

they redid the lighting, added a lot more glass railings where there weren't any before

very subtle - easy to miss - i think it feels brighter cause its been thinned out of all its greenery

[SpongeG]

took a few pics the other day on my phone - all pics by me

see the new glass railing and the new wire one

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8171/imag0593k.jpg

the much hated mound and new fence

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2403/imag0594.jpg

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/462/imag0595.jpg

[trofirhen]

Could anybody post any night shots of Robson Square the way it looks now? Also, I believe the Georgia Street side of the VAG has some floodlights. Any night time pix would be really great - - - especially if someone can do "before" and "after" the new lighting. Thank you. :)

[Locked In]

It's not at night, but here's a current pic from the Sun (http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Photos+Occupy+Vancouver+becomes+muddy+mess/5589779/story.html) of the Georgia street side of the VAG ;)

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/5589821.bin?size=620x400

[osirisboy]

wow its really muddy looking. what happened to all the wood chips the city put down?

[Pinion]

Thin decomposable organic material in an ultra-wet environment being walked on constantly... it is now worm poop.

[osirisboy]

Thin decomposable organic material in an ultra-wet environment being walked on constantly... it is now worm poop.

sure makes you wonder what the city was thinking. surely they have plans to put pavers or something down in the square?

[jsbertram]

sure makes you wonder what the city was thinking. surely they have plans to put pavers or something down in the square?

hmmmm....
Wouldn't that just encourage a "protest camp of the week" at the VAG?

With the mud, rain, wind and cold you find out who is truly committed to the cause vs. who is just a poseur.

[trofirhen]

hmmmm....
Wouldn't that just encourage a "protest camp of the week" at the VAG?

With the mud, rain, wind and cold you find out who is truly committed to the cause vs. who is just a poseur.
:previous::previous::previous:
What you say seems very true, but after this OWS movement is over, wouldn't elegant paving stones look nicer on the VAG Georgia Street side. Especially in Vancouver, which only now seems to be turnng the corner into elegance in the urban environment . . . .

[officedweller]

Hmmm teh wood chip mud is probably more receptive to tent pegs than the pavers would be - note the absence of tents on the -dry- paving stone path.

[wrenegade]

^Probably because they're not allowed, have to keep it free for regular people to still walk along. I absolutely despise some of these people. A whole bunch of them decided to walk out into the middle of the georgia & burrard intersection at like 2pm on saturday afternoon and just sit down in a circle and hold hands, absolutely destroying traffic. Shortly thereafter two police motorcycles show up and proceed to direct traffic around them! No, not arrest them, just let them go on the merry way and ruin thousands of Vancouverites afternoons. Disgusting. I digress...

I'd like to see the front on the Art Gallery ripped up (apart from trees/gardens around the edges) and replaced with the fountain concept proposed by someone (might have been part of "where's the square"). A whole bunch of 3' x 3' black slate squares with a fountain in the middle. It would be perfect for something like this. Turn the fountains off for the weekend and let the OWS people have their little fun talking about how Capitalism is the greatest evil in the world (not Al-Assad in Syria, or Darfur, or Mahmoud imadinnerjacket), and the Sunday night turn the fountains back on, wash everyone away and let the city get back to normal.

[SpongeG]

they blocked traffic again today - seems like any cause goes down there - the original idea was a good one but now its just i hate that you kill cows so i am gonna camp out too - its gotten ridiculous

[BCPhil]

they blocked traffic again today - seems like any cause goes down there - the original idea was a good one but now its just i hate that you kill cows so i am gonna camp out too - its gotten ridiculous

OWS started out with angry unemployed average white collar workers setting up camp in the middle of the biggest business district in the world, looking to be heard in a country overrun by the tea party that is touting how the government should do even less to help the situation. It's mostly people who have lost their jobs and are so desperate for work that they commit civil disobedience infront of the people they blame for destroying the economy.

In Vancouver, it's the usual suspects. "Professional" complainers and protesters. People who wouldn't have a job if you offered them one right now. And they set up shop in front of an art gallery. In NY they took the protest straight to the people they blame, the big bankers and Wall st types that sold off their futures and drove the country into the ground. In Vancouver, they are on public land, infront of a public gallery, annoying and inconveniencing average people. Their message, if they have one, is lost.

The Art Gallery and Robson square make for a good location for rallies and protests, and public events. And its like our only space for such things. These protesters are actually stealing from the public, who would like to use the space to promote other, REAL, causes and are instead monopolizing it with their tents for their petty concerns (if they actually have them). Meanwhile the big bankers and globalization types are relatively unaffected several blocks away and can go the whole day without seeing the protesters.

If I wanted to go down and have a rally for something actually important like cancer or Vancouver's missing women, I can't, and that is the ONLY thing these protesters are accomplishing.

[SpongeG]

walked through "the mound" last night at robson square - quite a number of people up there enjoying the lights and scenery - its not that bad now - hopefully they keep the trimming and growth down so it is more inviting

some pics - all by me

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8550/dsc03685a.jpg

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4199/dsc03686m.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7823/dsc03695ay.jpg

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4069/dsc03698x.jpg

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3040/dsc03700c.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8827/dsc03702q.jpg

[SpongeG]

Robson Square name up for sale to corporate sponsor

Vancouver mayor writes stern letter to PavCo over B.C. Place sign

BY BOB MACKIN, CONTRIBUTING WRITER DECEMBER 16, 2011


For the second time since the 2010 Winter Olympics, the provincial government is trying to sell Robson Square’s name to a corporate sponsor.

Complex operator Shared Services B.C. published a Nov. 25 request for proposals seeking a marketing professional to introduce an “advertising partner” to the province. Dec. 19 is the bid deadline.

The government hopes to sign a three-to-five year deal with a company or individual whose main business does not sell alcohol, tobacco, weapons or pornography or harm the environment.

The bid document states that “City of Vancouver sign bylaws will be observed.”

In early October, residents near B.C. Place Stadium complained that the Terry Fox Plaza advertising screen was too big and too bright, prompting Mayor Gregor Robertson’s stern Oct. 24 letter to B.C. Pavilion Corporation minister Pat Bell.

“Minister, I would ask that you direct your officials at PavCo to look seriously at the concerns of the citizens who are neighbours of B.C. Place—bring your signage into compliance with our bylaw and address the issue of the stadium lights,” said Robertson’s letter, obtained via Freedom of Information. “This is an area of the city where there are innovative plans for further development, and it is essential that we keep the public fully engaged and supportive.”

The B.C. Enterprise Corporation Act puts the stadium under provincial jurisdiction, but Robertson wrote “it has been our assumption that, on issues related to the local community, PavCo would work hard to be a good neighbour.”

NDP critic Spencer Chandra Herbert grilled Bell in question period Nov. 17 for disturbing neighbours and dishonouring the Terry Fox memorial. Bell conceded that there were “challenges with the technology implemented” in the stadium.

“PavCo’s been working with the City of Vancouver to ensure that we’re working within the structure of the approved bylaws,” Bell claimed.

Community services general manager David McLellan told Robertson at city council on Nov. 29 that “they haven’t approached us to have any discussions of any sort on removal or adjustment of those signs.”

“It’s outrageous [Bell] would mislead the assembly like that,” said sign foe David Cookson. “You don’t put giant advertising screens in front of people’s glass houses.”

...

Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/news/Robson+Square+name+sale+corporate+sponsor/5873441/story.html#ixzz1gry6QgbP

[trofirhen]

:previous::previous::previous::previous::previous:

Does this mean that Robson Square would actually change its name and be called something else (as was GM Place, and the Ford Centre for the Performing Arts) ..... or would it just have its name to linked to a major corporation, but still be called " ..."something" Robson Square?"

How might this turn out, in your opinion? Thanks :)

[Klazu]

Locals don't seem to appreciate the 2011 renovated Robson Square / The Law Courts roof garden, but to me it is one of the best urban gardens I have ever seen! It is so serene up there and you can be almost sure to enjoy the sunshine all by yourself.

It really puzzles me how people have not found this oasis right in the middle of Downtown. :shrug:

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/law_courts_katto2.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/law_courts_katto4.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/law_courts_katto1.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/law_courts_katto3.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/one_wall_centre_with_crown24.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/one_wall_centre_with_crown31.jpg

[trofirhen]

Great photos!! And a perspicacious observation!! Thanks :tup:

[Spork]

It really is a great place to have a quiet bite to eat or hang out with the lady friend. Even before renovations, it was quite a serene place to be!

[TwoFace]

It really is a great place to have a quiet bite to eat or hang out with the lady friend. Even before renovations, it was quite a serene place to be!

It would be a treat if the City decided to actually encourage the use of that space with tables/chairs and benches as opposed to shutting down perfectly good streets to obtain an inferior effect.

[wrenegade]

I actually didn't know the fountains had been turned back on. Hallelujah!

[officedweller]

Great pics, thanks!

[jlousa]

Couple of Open houses coming up, personally I think they should hold off on spending too much money until we know what'll happen with the Art gallery and any potential concert hall.

September 24, 2013 - Drop by an open house to see the preliminary concept plan options for the Art Gallery North Plaza. It's your chance to review the proposals and let us know what you think. City staff and consultants will be on hand to answer questions and receive your feedback. An online survey will also be available starting October 1. Help us create a plaza that’s an inviting, dynamic space for the city that works effectively with the Art Gallery, Robson Square and the surrounding areas.

OPEN HOUSES:
•Tuesday, October 1, 5:30-8:30pm
•Saturday, October 5, 12:30-3:30pm

Both open houses will be held at UBC Robson Square, Plaza Lounge
(Inside main entrance opposite skating rink)

[jlousa]

Here are the boards from the upcoming open house.

North Plaza: Public open houses (October 1 and 5, 2013)

Display panels:

Design concept 1: Wet
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Concept-Design-Option-1-Wet-2013-Sept-30.pdf

Design concept 2: Active Edge
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Concept-Design-Option-2-Active-Edge-2013-Sept-30.pdf

Design concept 3: Plalo Ring
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Concept-Design-Option-3-_Plalo-Ring-2013-Sept-30.pdf

What makes a great public space
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-What-Makes-a-Great-Public-Space-2013-Oct-1.pdf

Site analysis
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Site-Analysis-2013-Sept-30.pdf

Project background
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Project-Background-2013-Oct-1.pdf


For those that like all the boards in one shot, the below file if huge though so be patient.

Full set of display panels
http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Open-House-All-Boards-2013-Oct-1.pdf

[dreambrother808]

Nice to see that the current fountain is a goner. The Plalo Ring excites me most.

[spm2013]

Ah the ring illuminates. Didn't care for it at first glance but anything that lights up gets my vote.

[vitc]

Honestly, none of them really excites me. The Plalo Ring is kinda cool and the best option IMO if I had to pick one. Overall a bit disappointed.

[Millennium2002]

Honestly, none of them really excites me. The Plalo Ring is kinda cool and the best option IMO if I had to pick one. Overall a bit disappointed.

Yeah. I'd frankly prefer something modern, simplistic and clean aka the square that the Olympic Torch sits on.

The Active Edge idea looks okay in that respect, but the long shape of the fountain close to the street gives the impression of a jersey barrier... I'd rather have a smaller fountain, if that were possible.

The plalo ring? I think it's too tacky... not to mention that someone already mentioned how it'll probably end up being involved in a seagull orgy in no time.

Finally... wet? Really? That's the last thing I want to be reminded of on a sunny day... lol.

[hollywoodnorth]

Plalo Ring works for me but as jlo said earlier I think we should be waiting off on this till we find out the next tenant of the art gallery space.

[NewWester]

I think I rather like the Wet concept. It feels like a very charming play on Vancouver as a rainy place and would look pretty cool with the reflection of the water.

[CBeats]

The Plalo ring is so cool! That gets my vote. So much potential for light and sound. It could become a Vancouver landmark!

[Jebby]

I like the ring concept as well as the reflecting pool right against the building in the 'active edge' proposal.

[trofirhen]

This is really exciting, in that the authorities are finally "targeting" the North Plaza, as well as just Robson Square in general.

Personally, I find the "PLALO RING" concept a bit gimmicky; "tacky" as Allan Kuan said.
but the other two, and if a few tweaks were made on the "active edge" option, I think I'd choose that one.
The Wet concept seems like overkill in a city with such a rainy climate.

I know the majority of posters so far seem to prefer the PLALO RING, so I'm out of sync again, ... but it does seeem a bit tacky and gimmicky.
Sorry folks.

[EdinVan]

Honestly, none of them really excites me. The Plalo Ring is kinda cool and the best option IMO if I had to pick one. Overall a bit disappointed.

Dull, dull, dull. A parking lot would be more exciting.

Why not just fix the original fountain (which many people enjoy) and replace the woodchips with grass (or even astroturf)?

And what's with all those happy people frolicking in the background in each of the renders?

[connect2source]

Option 1 Wet :

-most timeless
-ties in the best with the existing Robson Sq. design
-pays most respect to Arthur Erickson's legacy
-reference great international design
-most modernist
-least 'trendy'
-references our local climate the best
-most interactive
-look best from above

[trofirhen]

Option 1 Wet :

-most timeless
-ties in the best with the existing Robson Sq. design
-pays most respect to Arthur Erickson's legacy
-reference great international design
-most modernist
-least 'trendy'
-references our local climate the best
-most interactive
-look best from above
Putting it the way you just did, I was forced to do some rethinking, and you're absolutely % right on, IMO. :tup:

oh, and I forgot; with great lighting (different, preferably, than the color scheme on the present fountain and pool.)

[VanK]

At first I found the comment "the first one is just gonna turn into a bird orgy with a ring of poop under neath" which was posted by "rsxstock" in the Downtown Vancouver updates room regarding the Plalo Ring funny... but the more I think about it, isn't this a true reality?

[city-dweller]

I would rank them active edge, wet, and the paolo ring.

Active edge from the renderings shows a design quality that matches the new developments such as Nordstroms nearby. It appears to maximize the plaza open space while protecting people from the high volume Georgia street.

Wet is great as it is trying to the incorporate the rain and water features as part of the pubic space. I may be off the mark, but don't Active water features require more expensive maintenance. so I would prefer more passive treatments, but I like the idea of all season usability.

The ring is the boldest idea for this space. My biggest issue is the yahoos damaging it despite the installation height. To be fair having a programable ring of lights (LED I assume) and directional stage lights would be pretty cool.

[Hourglass]

The active edge concept appears most 'European' to me -- something that might be seen in some larger cities on the Continent. However, I can imagine that the space would be quite bleak in the middle of winter.

The 'wet' concept somehow feels most organic, and based on similar concepts in other cities, people (esp kids) tend to be fascinated by the water feature. The Plalo Ring does feel a bit gimmicky, but I could see this becoming a signature piece.

Happy with either Option 1 or 3.

[phesto]

Not really excited by any of the 3 options either.

In classic Vancouver fashion, the project is a design by (architect) committee, responding to an array of site constraints, and within a tight budget...is it any wonder the plalo ring is the only interesting (if gimmicky) design component?

[connect2source]

[QUOTE=trofirhen;6287294]Putting it the way you just did, I was forced to do some rethinking, and you're absolutely % right on, IMO. :tup:

Thanks so much!! :) Also it's the only option that's truly interactive and engaging, especially during the warm months.

[djmk]

I think all these ideas have merit. Personally, now that the rains have started and won't stop for another 6 months, I would of liked to see some sort of cover (giant clam anyone?)

The water park is really cool for about 3 months a year.

that ring is really different. I really like it but I could see how it could flop.

The active edge is the cleanest and safest. but the most boring

[logan5]

I wouldn't mind seeing 2 or 3 nice restaurants/pubs built into the ground floor of the courthouse building. That would bring some activity to the new plaza.

[Denscity]

They could always install "bird spikes" along the top of the ring to prevent birds from forming said orgy.

[Prometheus]

Option 1 Wet :

-ties in the best with the existing Robson Sq. design
-pays most respect to Arthur Erickson's legacy

I think all the options are disappointing and need to go back to the drawing board. But I think "Wet" is the most disappointing option, precisely because it does tie into the rest of Robson Square. With a forest of trees taking-up a substantial portion of the western half of the square, it is eerily similar to what Vancouver already has more than enough of: just another park and overgrown green space. In the survey, this is precisely what people said they didn't want. What people said they wanted most (and what Vancouver most needs, especially fronting this classical building in the heart of the city) is a true urban civic square. Taking-up valuable square space with just another forest of trees is inconsistent with Vancouver's needs and the goal of this redesign.

[NewWester]

I think "Wet" is one of the most disappointing options, precisely because it does tie into the rest of Robson Square. With a forest of trees taking-up a substantial portion of the western half of the square, it is eerily similar to what Vancouver already has more than enough of: just another park and overgrown green space. In the survey, this is precisely what people said they didn't want. What people said they wanted most (and what Vancouver most needs, especially fronting this classical building in the heart of the city) is a true urban civic square. Taking-up valuable square space with just another forest of trees is inconsistent with Vancouver's needs and the goal of this redesign.

Are we looking at the same proposal? Or do we have radically different definitions of "forest" and "overgrown"?

[officedweller]

Not really keen on any of them - but it's a plaza (what can you expect?).
At least it hasn't devolved into a patchwork of mini-parks like Nathan Phillips Square in Toornto.

I also like the exitsing 1958 BC Centennial fountain - when it's working, the water gushes with "might" and really reflects the waves crashing on rocks or river rapids.

My comments:

Regardless of whichever is chosen - they had better not remove the magnificent magnolia tree at the NW corner (Hornby & Georgia). When that tree flowers in spring, it's amazing.

Active Edge - this is the worst one.
It constrains the sidewalk on West Georgia too much. i.e. there's a food truck there and there's always a big crowd around it forcing passersby to detour.
The pools by the Art Gallery are nice though and it looks like it has a restaurant pavilion (maybe the food truck would be history?)

Plalo Ring - gimmicky
This isn't that bad, but what is it other than a plain jane plaza with trees at the sides and a gimmicky ring right over top?
The ring shifts the burden of lighting maintenance onto the City rather than event organizers (think of any other "active" sculpture in the city that has fallen into disrepair).
Also, the ring places physical contraints on the use of the plaza - the guy wires and ring itself will place height restrictions on plaza use. Some of the stages erected for concerts are probably taller than that ring.

Wet - best of the 3, if you have to choose one, but like the ring proposal, it's a plaza with trees on the sides.
Looks like it has a restaurant pavilion to liven things up.
But when, exactly will the "wet" plaza actually be wet?
There are so many events using the plaza during summer that the wet feature will likely be dry most of the time. And like others have said, what's the use making it wet in fall and winter when it'll be naturally wet anyways?

[rsxstock]

i wish they would combine art and science to create something like a shaded area with solar panels or a small wind turbine

[Prometheus]

i wish they would combine art and science to create something like a shaded area with solar panels or a small wind turbine

And maybe throw in a recycling plant, some compost bins and a sustainable organic vegetable garden too?

[TwoFace]

And maybe throw in a recycling plant, some compost bins and a sustainable organic vegetable garden too?

:D

I still think that they should keep it as simple as possible, but add a permanent stage on the west or east side for spontaneous entertainment.
Also, aren't they going to dig up the whole plaza area first to re-enforce the bunkers below?, so were looking at 5+ years maybe.

[wrenegade]

WET is by far the best proposal. It offers the most flexibility for events, gatherings, and even temporary art installations, and takes into consideration what the plaza looks like 6 months of the year (the only sketch to include rain and/or leafless trees).

I too feel that the Plalo Ring proposal is gimmicky and would become dated quickly. It also looks like it might prevent the erection of the Christmas Tree on the plaza (one of my favourite parts about Christmas in Vancouver). The 2nd proposal is so boring I've already forgotten the name. Essentially it's just a flat plaza with a new (ugly) fountain? Blah. It would have been nice to see one of the proposals actually utilized main entrance. Perhaps whatever tenant that takes over after the Art Gallery is gone (if or when that happens) will be able to change that.

[theKB]

I wouldn't mind seeing 2 or 3 nice restaurants/pubs built into the ground floor of the courthouse building. That would bring some activity to the new plaza.

so by that you mean cactus club and donnely? :notacrook:

This would actually be a great addition to that area, and would bring some life down there. Kind of would remind me of the way Rockefeller Center is set up with the skating rink and a few restaurants and then the restaurant takes over the rink in the summer for a massive outdoor patio.

http://www.patinagroup.com/restaurants/57/images/2013-May-RockCenter-302_WEB.jpg patinagroup.com

(although I think this would be too advanced for Vancouver)

[Prometheus]

WET is by far the best proposal. It offers the most flexibility for events, gatherings, and even temporary art installations...

Even though there are four rows of large trees that consume 1/3rd of the actual square? See the overhead perspective on page 1: http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Concept-Design-Option-1-Wet-2013-Sept-30.pdf

After eyeballing the overheads of each proposal, it appears "Wet" actually leaves the least amount of open, unobstructed square space.

If "Wet" deleted three of the four rows of trees that intrude onto the square proper, then it would be the most flexible.

[NewWester]

You might have a point that fewer trees increases flexibility, but I disagree that Wet leaves all that much less usable space as seen from the overhead landscape architecture drawings. The ring has rows of trees on either side of the plaza and which accounts for about 1/3 of the usable area. And the fountain option has about 1/3 of the area taken up by the fountain (and is by far the dullest option). Also, given that the trees are sitting over the plaza and can be walked/sat among, I question how much impact they will have on the final use of the plaza.

[huenthar]

I think I would take a variation of the 'wet' option with:

-no stupid treed area blocking the side, we've got more than enough of that. Have the plaza area extend right up to the street and around the courthouse to maximize the usable space

-given we get so much rain anyways, the 'water feature' could be uniquely designed to make use of natural rainwater (as well as other water) so that the feature only really comes alive in the rain. I don't want the plaza itself to be wet though, the glass covered drainage idea or something along those lines that leaves the surface usable would be best. (I think a "rain fountain" would be a really cool idea, although would be much better placed on a different site; this location should be open space)

-and of course, wait on decisions re. future tenant, reopening the main entrance, concert hall etc.

[trofirhen]

Returning to the VAG Georgia St Plaza renders, upon a closer look, it seems that the "Wet" option is like a big, concrete, shallow puddle. I though it was maybe 80cm deeper.

This option, while pleasant, makes me think of a suburban playground, kids wading in the pools as at school or a shopping centre, or maybe campus plaza with trees added. I'm less of an enthusiast than if it were more classical (that building's design is 18th century, and merits being reflected as such.

Plalo Ring: my last choice.

Active Edge: Yes that granite fountain, as designed, is austere, and rather "walls off" the plaza from the Georgia side.
I think that perhaps some real "tweaks" in that one - different fountain shape - maybe a pool added - who knows at this point?
But IMO it is the most chic, does go well with Nordstroms, but seems too austere at plaza level. Make it more paza-accessible.
Tweak it to pay more homage to the building, stairs, columns and lions (don't as me how: somebody can try if they're interested), it would be the smartest, crispest, and most elegant. just my :2cents:

[trofirhen]

I think all the options are disappointing and need to go back to the drawing board. But I think "Wet" is the most disappointing option, precisely because it does tie into the rest of Robson Square. With a forest of trees taking-up a substantial portion of the western half of the square, it is eerily similar to what Vancouver already has more than enough of: just another park and overgrown green space. In the survey, this is precisely what people said they didn't want. What people said they wanted most (and what Vancouver most needs, especially fronting this classical building in the heart of the city) is a true urban civic square. Taking-up valuable square space with just another forest of trees is inconsistent with Vancouver's needs and the goal of this redesign.
Total agreement

[Prometheus]

Total agreement

Dude, are you for real? Know your own mind and have conviction.

[trofirhen]

Dude, are you for real? I don't accept your "total agreement."
Excuse me. This "total agreement" comes after a long second look at what is being offered. 1) I don't like the "woodsy" aspect; we already have enough. 2)"Wet" turns out to be a shallow concrete puddle with people sloshing around in it, rather like in a park or schoolyard. 3) "Wet" pays no hommage to the classical design of the building, nor does it provide a true "central downtown" civic square.

If I seem to have skipped all over the place, I apologize. It's just that taking a closer, harder, second look at the renderings made me do a lot of reconsidering. I realize that this seems very inconsistent and thus seems implausible, but that's where I'm coming from right now.

And yes, I think all the options are disappointing. None of them really speaks to me. Excuse my vascillating like this. It was a hard choice choosing between the lesser of three evils.
Please excuse me. Time to go back to the drawing board, I think.

[Hourglass]

Trof, you're flip-flopping here more than a politician! ;)

I think all three options are far better than what's there at present. Further, all options offer something of interest and provide a needed public space. What would you suggest as an alternative?

[s211]

I think what needs to be kept in mind is that there is almost zero funds being put up for this, which is holding back the square from being properly re-envisioned. Vancouver's getting another band-aid for a gaping wound.

[jlousa]

I predict that in typical fashion we will end up with a compromise of these designs and get a combination of all three in which the sum of the parts doesn't add up. :tup:

The wet proposal has the most support behind it by those involved, although the city itself seems to be pushing the ring proposal. Will be interesting to see how it plays out, going by previous experiences I think the open houses will "encourage" the ring design.

[Prometheus]

The wet proposal has the most support behind it by those involved, although the city itself seems to be pushing the ring proposal.

That's no surprise, considering the leader of the design team is Nick Milkovich, who was on the original design team for Robson Square and the Provincial Law Courts while working for Arthur Erickson. With its numerous trees, the "Wet" proposal is the most similar to Robson Square. Like Robson Square, "Wet" verges on being more park than true urban plaza.

And that's the problem.

I personally love the quiet, serene, contemplative green spaces of Robson Square. They offer a beautiful, hidden, virtually private respite from the noise and hustle of city life. But Vancouver has an abundance of that kind of space. What it doesn't have, however, is a true civic square in the heart of downtown, where public life is embraced, not escaped from. Indeed, Vancouverites who answered the city's survey said (to their credit) that they didn't want the north square to be another park or green space but rather a true "urban plaza."

See page three: http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/VAG-North-Plaza-Open-House-All-Boards-2013-Oct-1.pdf

I agree with them. This is the one place where Vancouver should have a proper urban square, where public experience is shared, not avoided. Of course, "Wet" is hardly as bad as all that. But it is the most park like and thus the most inconsistent with what Vancouver needs (and what Vancouverites want) at this location.

[trofirhen]

Trof, you're flip-flopping here more than a politician! ;)

I think all three options are far better than what's there at present. Further, all options offer something of interest and provide a needed public space. What would you suggest as an alternative?

I admit that it is true; I'm flip-flopping like a fish in a frying pan, and I apologize for that. I find myself confued and disappointed.

Part of the reasonis that I didn't take a long, hard, close enough look at the renders.OK.
For me, the Plalo Ring is a non-starter.
The Wet option (upon second, closer look) is a big wading puddle with a park that feels like a a schoolground or or such, or as mentioned, more of that woodsy-foresty aspect already behind Robson Square.
Pleasant enough but uninspiring and unworthy of the building itself, which is unique to Vancouver, and IMO should be offset with something to show up its classical features.
*
Nothing here really does it for me, but I would take the "Activated Edge, and redesign that long, walling-off fountain, so that access is available from Georgia Street (several smaller fountains? I do not have an answer at this point)

That option also leads nicely to the front steps of the VAG, and would be good if they ever decide to re-open the main entrance. Also, it offers a lot of open space, not only for concerts and gatherings, but just for people to sit in a real downtown, city-centre square.

I would replace a lot of the deciduous trees (bare in winter)with evergreens (though fewer of them) like several scotch pines, laurel, cypress, rhododendrons.....

So in the end, I'd have a large open plaza, with some water feature, but not overpowering, the lions and staircases of the VAG lit up in white, a plaza that invites people to sit or stroll, and a water feature (it could even include some sort of pool, but I have nothing specific in mind) that lends a definition to the square, but does not wall it off, as the present design does.

Please excuse me for this. I had trouble interpreting the renders, but frankly, none of the ideas presented really does it for me, anyway.