Edmonton - my lower rossdale idea

[Coldrsx]

Ok...so i have been working on a comprehensive plan for the lower rossdale area for some time now and while this is the "informal" plan...i am working on a full fledged ARP. In my opinion, this area is the most underused, undervalued, underserving area in this city. It has such HUGE potential for being a gathering place, a place for artists, shops, residences of differing types, museums, galleries, historical sites, parks, and play areas.

Green = residential (including townhouses, towers, lofts, and work/live dwellings.

Blue = street fronting retail with some 2nd storey office potential

Pink = public space/historical/museum/market/community centre

Heights would range from 2-18 storeys with an emphasis on 4-10 storeys to allow for required critical mass while maintaining views, sunlight, and street level feel.

Salmon = stone/brick pedestrian walk ways

new roadsways would have 60 degree angled parking with wide sidewalks allowing art and patio potentials. They would terminate with round abouts to encourage a slowing of traffic and focus on the pedestrian.

The current surface parking for telus field would be contained UG on the same lot south of the field with a secure ug level for residents. There would be some UG for the larger towers and a commercial UG parking for shoppers/visitors, but generally speaking the lower height residences would not have parking attributed to it for various and obvious reasons.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/lowerrossdale.jpg

with building types and styles along this line:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/lowerrossdalebuildingtype.jpg

[Innersoul1]

Can this not be in the construction thread!? WTF?!

[Coldrsx]

Can this not be in the construction thread!? WTF?!

it was meant to be a separate topic for discuss and not to be caught up with the rest of the "real" stuff.

lay off

[Edmonchuck]

Can this not be in the construction thread!? WTF?!


:shrug:

WTF is that comment for?

Coldrsx, we should have a beer over this one..

[Coldrsx]

^okey dokey

[Coldrsx]

working on 3d...here it is thus far:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/lowerrossdale3djpeg2.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/lowerrossdale3djpeg4.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/lowerrossdale3djpeg3.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/lowerrossdale3djpeg1.jpg

[Boris2k7]

Cold, could you post a map showing the wider area and maybe put some labels on what is around it? I'm afraid I'm not as familiar with my birth city's layout as I should be. The one in your first post is good for the immediate area but I can't get quite a clear sense of context.

[Coldrsx]

downtown is directly below this (north) and the river top (south) with the legislature grounds (west) of it and baseball field and housing (east)

[Atlguy33]

Awesome idea, Cold! Would be great to see Rossdale develop like this... a new urban village at the doorstep of downtown.

[Coldrsx]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/longblock.jpg

basically the ideal picture of why i feel this area should be...as well as a few others.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/DSC00789.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/DSC00796.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/DSC00799.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/DSC00802.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/DSC00806.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/bridgestownhouses.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/urbantownhouse3.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/outsideglassandwallhowto.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/311820987_484f412d4c.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/corazon2nj.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/ellingtonsite156.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/midrise.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/her1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/CorazonBldghorizImg3.jpg

[Boris2k7]

Ahhhh, okay thx. That road at the bottom of the pic looks like it could be a significant barrier to the rest of downtown. Any thoughts on that?

[Coldrsx]

Ahhhh, okay thx. That road at the bottom of the pic looks like it could be a significant barrier to the rest of downtown. Any thoughts on that?

it is 97ave...6 lanes and busy, but i like it acting as a barrier because it already is for the hill up to downtown really starts there and there is no interaction any way.

i like the idea of making this "its own" and a community on to itself while being accessible and welcoming through design, sidewalks, entrances and the like.

[CanadianCentaur]

Here's a good idea esp. for non-Edmontonians where the area is that Coldrsx's talking about:
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1737/rossdaleidealocyellowsqmz6.jpg

[Coldrsx]

^thanks CC....you can use the baseball diamond for referencing.

[shogged]

:shrug:

WTF is that comment for?


probably in reference to this thread http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=142432

[Spencer]

Cold, great idea. As someone who has lived in Rossdale on two seperate occasions I think this would be an amazing change in an already great neighborhood. :notacrook:

My concern would be getting the residents of Rossdale to ever even consider this change. It would be a war I would think, especially with the political will and influential people who currently reside there.:hell:

As a none Rossdaleian though, I would be in total support of your idea!

[Xelebes]

This actually sounds sensible. It's not overbearingly dense.

[Coldrsx]

Cold, great idea. As someone who has lived in Rossdale on two seperate occasions I think this would be an amazing change in an already great neighborhood. :notacrook:

My concern would be getting the residents of Rossdale to ever even consider this change. It would be a war I would think, especially with the political will and influential people who currently reside there.:hell:

As a none Rossdaleian though, I would be in total support of your idea!


yup...getting them to buy in would be the big challenge. I purposely put the towers along 97ave to keep them "away" from the neighbourhood, but people need to understand that for an area like this to become interesting and semi-sustainable, towers are needed and reflect the built form across 97ave.

imagine a little capers grocery for the community in this...a shoppers...and other neighbourhood services along with some food and bev.

not to mention the opportunity for cultural/artisan use and display.

[Edmonchuck]

probably in reference to this thread http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=142432


Okee dokee, still a lame comment.:whip:

[DizzyEdge]

Anyone have any pics of the area's current state? other than Google overhead view?

[Coldrsx]

^a few houses, a couple 2-3 storey 1950 wood crap apartments and vacant land being most of it.

truly a shame

[superpirate25]

I agree, this area is severely underutilized. I'd say it has some of the best potential to develop nicely without really displacing any current residents like in the East Jasper area.

I really like your layout cold, and imagine the possibilities with this coming together around the same time as the power plant decommission.

[Coldrsx]

I really like your layout cold, and imagine the possibilities with this coming together around the same time as the power plant decommission.


bingo...add in a wicked new museum in the rossdale plant and all of a sudden you have a comprehensize area redevelopment with:

-residences
-lofts
-offices
-work/live
-gallery space
-restaurant
-cafe
-retail
-cultural
-community
-transportation
-public space
-green space
-sport
-recreation

....done and done.

[Coldrsx]

from the old 1986 "plan":

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/upperrossdale-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/rossdaleconcept1986-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/rossdaleconcept19862-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/rossdaleconcept19863-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/rossdaleconcept19864-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x164/coldrsx/rossdaletowerconcept1-1.jpg

[rapid_business]

I've seen that '86 plan before. It was awesome for it's time. too bad only 5% of it ever was implemented.

Cold I love the plan. Where is the city on this now, and how can it be pushed?

[Spencer]

Is there a new plan in place already to replace the '86 plan. Also, anyone know who actually owns all of that land? It seems a bunch has changed hands in the last few years and some of the buildings have disappeared. Is it the city or is it a particular developer?

[Coldrsx]

mostly city and gene dub on a few lots

[Jasper and one o nin]

This area is prime for development. it would be so good for the city on so many levels. tourism, smart growth, brings people to the rivervalley...
nice plan cold

[Jasper and one o nin]

dub owns north of 97th ave - city mostly south

[S_B_Russell]

I talked to Ben Henderson before the election and he said he was hoping to see Rossdale re-developed. He's probably a good place to start.

[DizzyEdge]

Thought you might find this interesting, 1924, 1950, 200..5?

http://www.calgaryheritage.org/images/SSP/Rossdale.jpg

I had assumed that the area had originally been built up single family like that that is directly east, but it looks like for the most part it's always been 1/2 assed developed from the beginning.

[Xelebes]

Rossdale used to be an industrial zone from the turn of the century. When the river stopped being used in favour of the railway, the neighbourhood saw a great decline and while there have been many attempts throughout the history of Edmonton to renew the area with residential, it hasn't properly refilled itself.

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah it looks like it had started to fill in by the 50's but that didn't last...various freeways being built don't really help though do they.

[Strangelove]

cool proposal Cold... I love your enthusiasm and willingness to take on these imaginary projects. Hopefully a few of them will someday turn into reality :tup:

In regrads to your vision for Rossdale however, I'm going to have to side with the NIBY crowd. IMO, high-rise towers just aren't appropriate for this site (or the river-valley plain in general). A redeveloped powerplant ( in whatever capacity that might be) will be the centrepiece of this community and should therefore remain the most signifigant vertical element. Towers can be left for the hill and downtown proper
What this area needs is high density low-rise. Check out the Borneo Spornenburg district in Amsterdam. Dutch landscape architecture firm West 8 did the masterplan for this rehabilitated docklands area, and were able to achieve substantial residential density while maintaining a very comfortable pedestrian scale that was in keeping with the surrounding areas. Although the two areas are somewhat different contextually and in terms of scale, there's a fair bit of commonality between Borneo Sporenburg and Rossdale. I can see a similar setup working quite well here, where an overall masterplan is drawn up, but a large variety of architects are contracted to do the various individual elements. That way there's a visual coherence and over-arching sense of unity without the whole development looking a little too sterile and overly prescribed ala bigger projects like Century Park.
Again though, a very intriguing project ColdRSX

[Coldrsx]

^agree mostly...and i love high density low-rise, but i like the idea of some mid-rise point towers which would have amazing views and provide some greater opportunity for other uses.

[CMD UW]

I believe the planning department was in the process of studying the Rossdale Flats area a few years back. I believe we'll see this area advance as part of the Epcor Powerplant redevelopment. When is the question.

[Coldrsx]

"when is the question"

well if that isnt the motto of edmonton i dont know what is

[rapid_business]

citysource would be the guy to ask about this... (if he talks is another question)

[Coldrsx]

^way ahead of you...

[rapid_business]

:tup: (report progress as you see fit)

[mcc16]

So. I love it...mostly because i live right there. :) But a few questions?

You said the telus field ug parking would be on the south of the building...Is that just an empty field right now? Current parking is on the north is it not?

Also, can you throw in a funicular up to jasper to save me from walking up 105st? :) Possibly across the river and up to whyte ave down 105st south of the river? Direct jasper to whyte connection would be swell.

Has the city always planned to have residential in this area? There's no chance they would just make this into a park to tie into the river valley right?

And as far as the concerns about high rises in this area, i think you have definately at least partially adressed this by having the highest towers nearest the corner of 105st and 97 ave and decreasing in height moving south and east. I dont think the tallest tower should be much taller than P.Point, river valley condos, or the river vista...The top of the buildings should follow the slope of the hill. (which it looks like is your plan anyways)

If we had a decent baseball team in a decent league this area would be perfect pre and post game. Maybe decomissioned powerplant sports museum (with MANY interactive activities - Not just memorabilia)

Anyways, i like it :tup:

[kcantor]

:tup: (report progress as you see fit)
additional background and links:
http://www.epcor.ca/Communities/Alberta/Public+Consultation/Rossdale/longtermdevplan.htm

[Coldrsx]

So. I love it...mostly because i live right there. :) But a few questions?

You said the telus field ug parking would be on the south of the building...Is that just an empty field right now? Current parking is on the north is it not?

Also, can you throw in a funicular up to jasper to save me from walking up 105st? :) Possibly across the river and up to whyte ave down 105st south of the river? Direct jasper to whyte connection would be swell.

Has the city always planned to have residential in this area? There's no chance they would just make this into a park to tie into the river valley right?

And as far as the concerns about high rises in this area, i think you have definately at least partially adressed this by having the highest towers nearest the corner of 105st and 97 ave and decreasing in height moving south and east. I dont think the tallest tower should be much taller than P.Point, river valley condos, or the river vista...The top of the buildings should follow the slope of the hill. (which it looks like is your plan anyways)

If we had a decent baseball team in a decent league this area would be perfect pre and post game. Maybe decomissioned powerplant sports museum (with MANY interactive activities - Not just memorabilia)

Anyways, i like it :tup:

thanks for the comments and questions...

-UG parking for telus i meant north of telus under a new mixed use complex.

-no funiculars, i personally dont like em, but i do really like the idea of connections to downtown/southside by means of other concepts.

-there have been different plans over the years, but most if not all included some residential and a "community/public" area. I personally think we have enough "park" in that area (hi mr. river valley) and want something that interacts with it in a functional/viable and somewhat sensitive manner while being able to create a new and interesting area that would make another place for Edmontonians and visitors alike to explore.

-highest tower would be 18 with most being 6-14 and it definitely would terrace down as you go south, but i like the idea of some height east.

[vaportrail]

Prior to major residential projects covering the area, I expect there will be a significant revamp of roadway infrastructure including a new bridge. The only river crossing options I see are to twin the 105 Street Bridge or to construct a new bridge anchored on the north where the HP Plant currently sits. I think intersections involving 105 Street, Bellamy Hill, 97 Avenue and bridge traffic will need to be updated to secure reasonable vehicle flow for the next while.

I would assume this kind of planning would be at least hinted in Mandel's new bridge vision expected in 2008. Impact on potential area residential development will likely depend on how significant (or insignificant) any road changes might be.

[Coldrsx]

^while i agree something needs to be done to improve south to downtown access...i hope they do not make this area "a freeway"...in that you want to pass through at 60km/h + instead of entering into a very unique area.

i prefer the idea of making the high level 2 lanes north bound in the morning and 2 south in the evening.

[rapid_business]

Or you could do Gateway Blvd. straight to a new bridge (use existing foundation from previous plan), and touching down right after the river at grade to join 105th, where it would slow to 50-60 because of on street parking, street level shops, (critical mass)...etc.

[vaportrail]

Or you could do Gateway Blvd. straight to a new bridge (use existing foundation from previous plan), and touching down right after the river at grade to join 105th, where it would slow to 50-60 because of on street parking, street level shops, (critical mass)...etc.
My expectation is similar to what you've suggested except that I don't think a direct connection to 105 Street at grade is possible. First, there is that hot potato of a memorial park. But regardless, unless the 105 Street Bridge were to be demolished, I can't see how both bridges could exit on the north bank right beside each other. That's why I'm guessing a new bridge would have to exist slightly to the east of that point where the HP Plant is situated. It would tie in to Rossdale Road and/or 104 Street, I'm guessing.

[Coldrsx]

high level bridge northbound and smaller bridge from the south

[newfangled]

high level bridge northbound and smaller bridge from the south

Northbond would be way better, but not sure how it would ever happen though. They really should have flipped it ten years ago (or so) when they shut the High Level down for a year for reconditioning.

"See - we told you that you could live without the High Level. And now that it's open again, we're going to really confuse you..."

[ZiZiPop]

Is this area being considered for the site of the 2017 expo if Edmonton wins a potential bid? That may need to be considered for any redevelopment.

[Coldrsx]

^could be, but wrong location imo