Uptown Waterloo Public Square | Approved

[myfaceisonfire]

Wow, that news came out of nowhere! I wonder where the funding came from? I haven't heard any major announcements.

I too wonder where they're going to put the expansion. I can only guess that it would be to the south-east, where the parking lot is.

Hopefully the expansion is held to the design standards of the original building or even pushes to exceed them.

[Waterlooson]

Wow, that news came out of nowhere! I wonder where the funding came from? I haven't heard any major announcements.

I too wonder where they're going to put the expansion. I can only guess that it would be to the south-east, where the parking lot is.

Hopefully the expansion is held to the design standards of the original building or even pushes to exceed them.

I'll bet that the addition will be on the west side of PI.... they have lots of land there.... perhaps it will form a "T" ... don't know about that.

[Waterlooson]

Wow, that news came out of nowhere! I wonder where the funding came from? I haven't heard any major announcements.

I too wonder where they're going to put the expansion. I can only guess that it would be to the south-east, where the parking lot is.

Hopefully the expansion is held to the design standards of the original building or even pushes to exceed them.

About the money:


http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2008/06/04/tech-magnate-donates-another-50-million-to-canadas-perimeter-institute/

Also PI has applied for government funding for the estimated cost of $30 million for the expansion.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Pictures taken on December 13, 2008.

Uptown was busy today, especially with Christmas shoppers and girls flocking to that new Lululemon store at Waterloo Town Square. :rolleyes:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/138/p8030693ag5.jpg

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8046/p8030692xu8.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3793/p8030694ra7.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5918/p8030696pc4.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/897/p8030698ho1.jpg

[jcollins]

Square opening delayed till spring

December 17, 2008
Liz Monteiro
RECORD STAFF

WATERLOO

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/74/54/bae307c2458892ec1283474d71a8.jpeg

The grand opening of the city core's new public square has been delayed until spring.

Work at the Waterloo public square -- originally expected to be complete by the end of this month -- is about 75 per cent complete, project manager Barb Magee Turner said yesterday.

Winter's early arrival meant concrete pouring had to stop. But some construction such as furniture installation is still going on, she said.

"You will see a fabulous public square, very functional,'' Magee Turner said.

Features will include textured and sandblasted concrete, plants and trees.

Mark Zuzinjak, project designer with GSP Group of Kitchener, said the square will have an open feel with sweeping stairs to the front entrance of Waterloo Town Square, benches and a bus shelter off King Street.

Zuzinjak said it could be similar to the public square at Yonge and Dundas streets in Toronto.

When completed, the $2.8-million square will have the "rough-in" features for a rink and waterfall, but the two attractions won't be complete.

Last spring, council decided to go ahead with the public square without the rink and waterfall feature because there wasn't money to fund the projects.

Council also approved a move to raise $800,000 from the community and the private sector to pay for the rink and waterfall.

Coun. Ian McLean said he and Mayor Brenda Halloran have spoken to local companies about donating money and sponsoring part of the square.

"Times are suddenly getting tough and people are cautious,'' he said.

"When we get the dollars, it will happen. It's just when,'' McLean said. "We are a generous community.''

Betty Ann Recchia, manager of cultural development for the City of Waterloo, said the city will create programming for the square to encourage people to come to the core.

"The goal is to make it a gathering place for people,'' Recchia said.

"It will be a place where you can step out and have lunch and not be bombarded with aggressive, over-the-top programming,'' she said.

Recchia said a citizen would like to start and end a marathon at the square.

Recchia said the Ice Dogs Festival will likely move to the square and programming at Christmas and other holidays will be held there.

lmonteiro@therecord.com

[myfaceisonfire]

I can't believe that this is considered to be even 75% complete. Sure, it's better than the parking lot that was there but only marginally. The city has replaced a asphalt slab with a concrete one and added some decorative steps. The worst part is that even though the BIA is offering to lend the city the money to build the water feature they can't accept it!:hell:

IMO this square is a disaster.

[notmyfriends]

How exactly does a concrete slab cost $2.8-million anyway?

[jcollins]

By adding trees :D

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Zuzinjak said it could be similar to the public square at Yonge and Dundas streets in Toronto.

:haha: Please don't tell me he's serious.

[DHLawrence]

He may be--consider Yonge-Dundas Square...

[Bauer_buyer]

A comparison to the Yonge St Dundas corner eh!
How appropriate because that corner in Toronto is possibly one of the most ugly, unattractive man made disasters ever created in T.O.

Waterloo Square is equally ugly and reflects the incompetence of the present city council from their councillors to the mayor... someone who achieved office who should not have; from Kitchener eh!!

Have you ever been to the city council meetings and seen them in action ?
It's a laugh.

My taxes are over $3300.00 for something like 1280 square ft.
What do I get...littered streets, trash containers that are brimming over with garbage, broken sidewalks and finally an ugly square where they have to nickel and dime an ice rink and waterfall.
In the meantime they continue spending ruthlessly on libraries in the east end, west end and God knows whatever other end.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

I thought I would post a picture I took back in January from on top of the Parkade across the street. I wonder if the end product will look better than this as they so claim? :rolleyes:

Waterloo Public Square Pre-Construction, January 2008
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9329/p1130345aj8.jpg

[tony_danza]

Does anyone have any info/photos on the original First Gulf plan for Uptown Waterloo? I think this proposal was first publicized back in June of 2000. I've always been curious as to how this first proposal differed from what has currently been constructed Uptown. As I recall, Waterloo Town Square was going to be torn down and a Zehrs was going to be located on King St. beside the First United Church. Several office towers were also planned, along with a hotel and theatre. I think First Gulf spent $200K on the models alone. I've always thought that Waterloo Town Square should be torn down and replaced with a tall, mixed use development. I am a little concerned that the public square is a waste of money, given the current mall setup.

http://www.nblc.com/images/projects/thumb_waterloo.jpg

[rapid_business]

/\ I can echo your frustration. Unfortunatly we have to live with the poorly designed mall (although the willis way component isn't bad) for some time still. I'd like to see these original plans too. I think Duke might have some kicking around somewhere if I recall.

[Cambridgite]

Does anyone have any info/photos on the original First Gulf plan for Uptown Waterloo?

http://www.charitylinkrealty.ca/cityprofiles/Waterloo/graphics/Waterloo-Real-Estate-Referral-Agent-Homes-Charity-Donation.jpg

[myfaceisonfire]

That brings back the memories. I used to rasterbate to that render.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Does anyone have any info/photos on the original First Gulf plan for Uptown Waterloo?

Unfortunately I can't find the renderings of the original redevelopment of Waterloo Town Square. I went through my goodie basket and was able to find only one early rendering of the current plan I had kicking around, as well as some pictures of the old Waterloo Town Square mall.

I do however remember going to the public meeting for the original redevelopment over 10 years ago at the Waterloo Memorial Recreation Complex. I swear it was like 1997 or 1998 or something and I was much younger :). I remember the plan was to demo the entire mall, and for Zehrs to build one of their mega stores of the time (very similar to Zehrs Beechwood, HiWay Market, and Conestoga: their late 1990s store concept). I think it was to go closer to the tracks and where Rude Native currently is. I also remember the theatre proposal (which evolved a few years later to be one of Galaxy Cinema's first theatres only until the concept of a multiplex in Uptown was opposed and they ended up going up the street to Conestoga Mall). There was definitely some mixed commercial use, something like a department store and offices above...mind you, this was still when K-Mart was at the mall. That's all I really remember. If I can find something, I will definitely post it!



By the way, I did find this excerpt from Gary Will's website for his "Walking Tour of Waterloo" (http://www.garywill.com/waterloo/wts.htm). Interesting site - it's complete with 90's era photos of Uptown, with pictures of the Seagram Buildings before they were transformed into lofts. The page hasn't been updated since 2000, so this was the situation at that time:

"In 1969, the Waterloo Chronicle (who was and is a tenant of the building) could write that "In Waterloo Square, this city has one of the most modern downtown shopping malls in the province."

Decades later, it's hard to see it through those eyes. The mall may be a step up from old factories, but it too is an aesthetic disaster -- hideous in appearance from all sides, inside and out, and disconnected from everything around it by a moat of concrete. The parking lot -- owned by the City -- is certainly useful, but the mall's design is very unfortunate for what should have been the centrepiece of the city.

Canada Life put the mall up for sale in December 1997, asking for $16.5 million, but there were no takers at that price.

It seemed Waterloo Town Square would be too big and expensive to tear down and rebuild, but that all seemed to change with a planned $240 million redevelopment that was every bit as ambitious as the one which led to mall's construction. The plan was cancelled in the summer of 2001, and the mall's future is still up in the air. "


http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6958/earlyconceptdrawingeq2.jpg

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6341/townsquaredemoapril157vow3.jpg

And...the finale:

:runaway:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9112/oldentrancequ0.jpg

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

In addition to my post above, I just did some digging and found this in an essay written by Mark Seasons (urban planning prof @ UW and Glen Scheels of the GSP Group):


FIRST GULF REDEVELOPMENT OF WATERLOO TOWN SQUARE
Seagram and WTS Plan (1999)

First Gulf Development Corp. was selected by the City to redevelop the former Seagram land at the corner of Erb Street and Caroline Street, adjacent to WTS. It became apparent to First Gulf that the WTS decline was having a negative impact on the Uptown neighbourhood. First Gulf pursued the property and acquired it in 1999. A comprehensive development plan involving both properties was then prepared. First Gulf began working on a development scheme for those lands which included office, residential, retail and cinema space.

The plan was predicated on the complete demolition of the WTS building and the introduction of a new street, the extension of Willis Way from King Street to Caroline Street. Development on the WTS site would comprise retail with office, residential and hotel above, office, a department store and a large parking structure.

This original redevelopment scheme integrated both the Seagram and WTS sites and in turn reintegrated this block with King Street and the fabric of Uptown. Its intention was to capitalize on the synergies between all the uses, and offer a wide range of leasing opportunities. The scheme received approval from the City of Waterloo in 2001. However, First Gulf did not proceed with its major redevelopment proposal. It lost the Seagram property as it did not proceed within the timeframe established in its agreement with the City. The First Gulf proposal did not meet with wide-spread market acceptance at the time of its approval. Its deal with the cinema company fell apart as Cineplex Odeon went into a restructuring period (Duke: Galaxy Cinemas was independently created by ex-executives of Cineplex at the time, focusing on markets where there was little competition. In 2003, Galaxy was ironically merged to become a part of Cineplex). A large bookstore was also to be an anchor tenant and that company, Indigo, merged with another national bookseller (Duke: likely Chapters).

[mpd618]

It seems the city commissioned a Waterloo Bell (http://www.doublersteel.com/projects/waterloobell/) sculpture to be placed in the square when that is finished. According to the Daily Bulletin (http://www.bulletin.uwaterloo.ca/2009/feb/17tu.html), in the meantime it will be taking up residence in UW's North Campus.

http://www.bulletin.uwaterloo.ca/images/2009/0217bell.jpg

[BusyBerliner]

here's a video clip of the beast. I wonder where it will go in the square? http://projectbox.ca/dump/freelance/royden/roydenBell_6seg_6sec.mov




...and some more info from the builder (http://www.doublersteel.com/projects/waterloobell/):



World renowned sculptor, Royden Rabinowitch commissioned Double R Steel to build this 6,750 lb. "bell" for the City of Waterloo.

The Bell, soon to be installed at the Civic Square in downtown Waterloo, ON. is a tribute to the industrial history of Waterloo Region, its founders and its work ethic.

The completed Bell reflects the craftsmanship of the people at Double R Steel. After 30 days of cutting, rolling, fitting and welding, even the artist was impressed.

The Waterloo Bell is the artist's tribute to:

the people and to the City of Waterloo and the Waterloo region. It is a tribute to what they have been, are and will be;

the agricultural, faith and academic communities, individually and more importantly, collectively; and

the apparently effortless way that these individuals and communities are embracing / valuing the creative juxtaposition of the ordinary and the abstract, faith and knowledge.

Waterloo's ability to take these for granted and to use them to make individuals and the community stronger; whereas, individuals and communities world wide have buckled under the stresses and tensions this juxtaposition has caused

The Waterloo Bell is asymmetrical. Like humans or communities in motion, the top (head), middle (body), bottom (legs) of the Bell are slightly out of balance as they accommodate something new and try to find a new balance and movement forward.

Humans have used bells to gather civic or faith communities to celebrate, inform and debate, or for sounding alarm, all of them involving movement and personal and social re-balancing.

The Waterloo Bell is manufactured of corten steel and the parts refer to the shapes of barrel staves and hoops. Clearly barrels are domestic, agricultural, industrial, and commercial Waterloo artefacts. It not only references the physical importance of barrels to Waterloo but also draws on and recognises the essential historical role that barrels played in realising that faith and analysis could and should co-exist.

[mackeast]

The bell is lopsided because humans are in motion? riiiiiiight...

[bauer123]

It being lopsided is probably the reason Double R is pretty much extinct as a business now and just leases out that building :) . I was actually surprised that they still fabricated stuff there...Thought it shut down years ago.

Waterloo definitely doesn't have any industrial now. So it is nod to the past.

[notmyfriends]

For $3million, how long exactly does it take to pour a cement slab? I could have it done in a couple weeks if you're going to pay me that much.

[razzie13]

Hey everyone! long-time lurker first-time poster..

anyhow, i found this in The Record today:

"Waterloo councillors will decide in a month whether to grant a request for a $10,000 grant to help the Contemporary Art Forum Kitchener and Area (CAFKA). CAFKA wants the money to help install a multimedia display by Rafael Lozano-Hemmer. The display would be shown in the new public square on King Street during the forum, Sept. 18-Oct. 4. The square is to open on May 30."

[notmyfriends]

"grant a request for a $10,000 grant"

I love Record writers.

[waterloowarrior]

Plans begin for civic square grand opening in May
By Greg Macdonald, Chronicle Staff
News
Apr 01, 2009

he City of Waterloo’s civic square won’t officially open until May 30, but programming has already begun for the space.
The square’s big opening at the end of May will feature performances by local musicians including the Waterloo concert band, speeches by Mayor Brenda Halloran and other city officials and an interactive marketplace.

City staff is mum on the rest of the details, but are promising a big show and a good time.

“I’m very excited about the opening of the square,” Halloran said. “This is an opportunity for this community to have a public meeting space. It’s a chance for the to go and sit for a while and be a part of the city.

“I think it will be a real focal point for people to gather.”

A week later, on June 5, the square, located in front of Waterloo Town Square, will host the opening ceremonies of the Spotlight on Arts festival.

That’s when the square’s first piece of public art will be unveiled.

The Bell for Kepler, designed by Royden Rabinowitch, will celebrate the city’s heritage in science, technology and innovation, said Tracy Suerich, public square and open spaces program co-ordinator.

The unveiling will also feature a performance by jazz musician Diane Nalini.

Most of June will be what Suerich calls a “soft opening” --not a lot of events, but plenty of time for visitors to enjoy the new square.

“It will give us some time to work out of all of the kinks,” she said.

In July, programming will pick up, with events happening almost daily, Suerich added.

“I don’t want to say that it will be daily, but there will be stuff going on most days of the week,” she said.

The square will also be outfitted with some greenery, thanks to a donation by the 10,000 Trees Project.

Last Monday, the tree-planting local organization presented council with a cheque for $5,000 to purchase trees for the civic square.

The city will use the money to plant six semi-mature honey locust trees.

“All of us at 10,000 Trees look forward to the day when others will sit in the shade of the trees planted this year,” said Barbara Larke, a board member with the organization. “The civic square marks the start of that new beginning and we are delighted to be part of that new beginning.”

[urban!ty]

Hello all,

I am not in KW at the moment because of school.

Can someone post photos of the square in its current form? I'd love to see how it's shaped up. :)

[rapid_business]

Pretty bland right now. I'm hoping the trees will do good things for it. Same with the future reflecting pool. (if it ever gets built...)

[metropolis]

FYI: The developer building the 25 storey condo on on King and University is contributing $165,000 towards the public square.

[notmyfriends]

Hello all,

I am not in KW at the moment because of school.

Can someone post photos of the square in its current form? I'd love to see how it's shaped up. :)

Take this
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/fail-owned-sidewalk-split-in-half-fail.jpg

Now expand it to somehow cost over $2million and you're there.

[urban!ty]

No photos to be seen of it?

I am eager because I fought for it-- editorials in The Record, word of mouth promotion, and speaking as a delegate at the final meeting and really feeling like I got my ideas across-- and I really hope what I fought for shapes up nicely.

However, when something is brand new (!) it can seem a bit out of place or even awkward. But I think planting trees (I think trees in HUGE, bright planters would look playful and cool) will soften the effect and age will add another dimension to the square.

If no photos are posted, I will be back in Waterloo this weekend for about a week so I'll definitely see it then.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

No photos to be seen of it?

I am eager because I fought for it-- editorials in The Record, word of mouth promotion, and speaking as a delegate at the final meeting and really feeling like I got my ideas across-- and I really hope what I fought for shapes up nicely.


http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2636/march24.jpg
"Last week we finished sandblasting the courtyard cement to give the ground some interesting texture, and they capped off all of the railing and benches, it is really starting to look like our drawings!"

This photo is from the City of Waterloo's website, taken on March 24. I was also a delegate at the council meeting where it got approved in April 2007. This was before council realized that it was over budget though.

http://waterloo.ca/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=2373

[urban!ty]

Thanks for the photo! It tied me over.

I just walked over to the square to check it out, as I arrived in Waterloo today.

I think it's really cool. My hopes are that they put big, coloured planters along the Rude Native side of the square (the north end of the square.) This would also divide the train tracks in a sense, while adding a whimsical feature and a splash of colour-- and of course, greenery.

The lamp-posts they used along King Street for the square look very 1960s or Frederick-Mall-like, but upon further inspection, I decided I really like the touch. It's rather retro though, but it works. I also like how the posts are a light grey colour so that they don't stand out or punctuate the square. Very good.

It's so nice to see the King Street sidewalk extend back, on and on from the street, and form a public square. It's about time.

Bring on those planters and I will love it! (And a new facade for WTS, which in a few years will definitely have been done.)

[rapid_business]

Without something to draw people (like the reflecting pool does for Kitchener City Hall) I'm afraid it will be a barren, glorified, concrete square.

[DHLawrence]

That leads to a mall :yuck:

It wouldn't be too bad if the mall had a few more stories on top. After all, ground floor retail is a good thing when there's more than the ground floor to a building!

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

The lamp-posts they used along King Street for the square look very 1960s or Frederick-Mall-like, but upon further inspection, I decided I really like the

Exactly what I thought when I saw them a few weeks ago, even down to the Frederick Mall relation! :haha:


As a side note, I heard that the City just recently hired an event coordinator for the the public square, and it's an $80,000/year job! :eek:

[notmyfriends]

$80K/yr?

How much did they save by only roughing in the rink instead of going ahead with it right away?

[Bauer_buyer]

Pretty bland right now. I'm hoping the trees will do good things for it. Same with the future reflecting pool. (if it ever gets built...)


I take back some of the criticism as the project is looking a lot better than I had hoped; the patterned plaza, the semi circular rotunda, just to point out a few areas that are visually pleasing.

Unfortunately the number of trees for the new town square will be few compared to the massive slab of concrete.
However, I'd like to see trees that can be enjoyed all year round; namely evergreens that will add substance, colour, shade, height and most of all be easier to maintain. Locusts ?

[urban!ty]

That leads to a mall :yuck:

It wouldn't be too bad if the mall had a few more stories on top. After all, ground floor retail is a good thing when there's more than the ground floor to a building!

I wasn't aware that cities are built in a day!

Just wait... there is a new King Street facade in the works for the old 75 King building. Yes, another new one. I think the economy must be the reason for its delay, as well as waiting for the public square to become more popular-- but it will happen. As horizontal as it is, the facade of the old mall building could really become something sleek or a unique backdrop to the square.

The process and anticipation is what makes cities' development so interesting. :banana:

[DHLawrence]

I never said cities were built in a day--just saying that it's rather tacky.

[notmyfriends]

I hope there is a way for the public square to become more popular, but outside of the occasional event, why exactly am I going to go hang out in a concrete slab out front of a shoppers? I guess it does look like a pretty good place to skateboard, but I doubt that will be encouraged. Put a food court in the mall and tables with umbrellas in the square and I may go there for lunch once in a while.

When they took out the rink this stopped making sense to me, and now that I see the barren concrete slab it's not making more sense. At least the lack of popularity I'm envisioning might speed up the installation of the features they put on hold.

[smably]

I'm also a bit concerned about the public square. My experience with this kind of space comes from Victoria, since I grew up near there. We have a similar space called Centennial Square (http://www.maltwood.uvic.ca/Architecture/ma/urban_planning/centennial_square/home.html), which is almost universally regarded as a failure. Many people actually avoid it now, because it's populated mostly by the addicted and destitute and has a reputation for being unsafe and dirty. The main problem, I think, is that there's nothing to do there.

I'm not saying I think our square is going to be a failure, necessarily -- it's definitely better than the parking lot it replaced. I do wish that the designers had put more thought into how people are going to use the square between events, though. A skating rink and water feature would help, definitely. Trees with tables underneath would be nice. We'll see how it shapes up.

I also wonder whether the openness of the location might work against it. (See positive public space (http://downlode.org/Etext/Patterns/ptn106.html).) In the long term, I'd like to see some taller buildings go up around there, though I guess the mall isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[koops65]

:previous: When I was reading the minutes about the LRT/BRT debate in Waterloo City Council, one part of it mentioned how the City wanted at least one 10 000 square metre office building right in the middle of Uptown. Not sure how tall something like that could end up being...

[dunkalunk]

I'm not sure who it was who posted a rendering of their vision for uptown waterloo, but it would be interesting to see again. If they could find a way to plop a residential low-rise on top of the existing mall and create some sort of rooftop garden with the rest of the space, that would be incredible. Either that or raze the whole thing and start anew, and incorporate the rapid transit stop directly into the fabric of the building.

Here's an idea to help make use of the square: A community farmers' market. With all of the residential development going up around this area, it will certainly have enough customers. If Woolwich can give up the land to build a Walmart, there's no reason why we can't open up the square to a few produce vendors on the weekend. It will be a market that people in waterloo will actually be able to conveniently use. It would also be a huge boost for surrounding businesses due to increased foot traffic, except maybe the valu-mart (for all intents and purposes, they could run the thing).

[edit] It was onishenko.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2307/2424004609_e224c79c8d.jpg?v=0 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=149624)

[rapid_business]

/\ Thanks for the plug. Yeah, that was for a class I took last year. Thinking about it now, there is a lot I'd change about it, but it was pretty rushed. In terms of the public square, I'd re-orientate that restaurant so the patio faced the square. there already is one-brew pub in the rendering with a patio overlooking the square, but I digress....

I'm not sure about the produce market. The problem is St. Jacobs is too big a competitor in the region. That is one of the reasons why the Kitchener market fails. And there really isn't the population density around the square, or uptown for that measure, to really support a localized market. If people have to drive, they'll go to St. Jacobs.

I really think it needs an activity focus. And, the simplest, in my opinion, is a reflecting pool.

:previous: When I was reading the minutes about the LRT/BRT debate in Waterloo City Council, one part of it mentioned how the City wanted at least one 10 000 square metre office building right in the middle of Uptown. Not sure how tall something like that could end up being...

Not large. That is about 100,000 sq. ft. This is probably 11 floors of what the Marsland Centre is. Most office floorplates are between 9,000 for a skinny building, and 25,000-35,000 for a larger office tower.

[dunkalunk]

:previous: No prob, although I still disagree with you about changing the current one way thoroughfares to 2-way ones with the exception of Caroline and Albert.

[WatDot]

I'm not sure who it was who posted a rendering of their vision for uptown waterloo, but it would be interesting to see again. If they could find a way to plop a residential low-rise on top of the existing mall and create some sort of rooftop garden with the rest of the space, that would be incredible. Either that or raze the whole thing and start anew, and incorporate the rapid transit stop directly into the fabric of the building.


Incorporating the rapid transit stop directly into the fabric of the building.... now that is a cool idea and very possible even as things exist today if they end up using that rail line!!

[mpd618]

Neither St. Jacobs nor the Kitchener Market are within walking distance of Uptown. I think it would definitely make sense to have at least a small community farmer's market in the town square. This isn't about competition with other markets, it's about getting local food and more sense of community.

[dunkalunk]

:previous: +1

Welcome BTW. :tup:

[Bauer_buyer]

A market downtown Waterloo is a great idea, however, the location must be considered carefully.
* Not everyone uses the market on any given day, Saturday or otherwise; it's for everyone not just the vendors or those who frequent them; Waterloo Sq. should not be tied up for this particular activity. It's PUBLIC.
* A better location might be the city hall parking lot which on a Saturday morn. is virtually empty and, just a note, the Mennonite carriage garage is a stone's throw away and convenient for the horses who pull them.

[rapid_business]

/\ True, but not easily visible. A couple table in Waterloo Square wouldn't be a bad thing. It wouldn't/couldn't be a big thing... but a couple stalls would be appropriate in this setting.

[notmyfriends]

* Not everyone uses the market on any given day, Saturday or otherwise; it's for everyone not just the vendors or those who frequent them; Waterloo Sq. should not be tied up for this particular activity. It's PUBLIC.


By the same arguement they should never hold a concert there because it won't interest everyone, or they should never have the buskers use the area because it wont interest everyone, or they shouldn't have tables there because no everyone will want to sit at a table...

It's public so it should be used for something public, such as a weekly local market.

[Bauer_buyer]

I beg to disagree with you...A PUBLIC SQUARE IS A PUBLIC SQUARE BY ANY OTHER NAME...A DICTIONARY DEFINITION WOULD SUPPORT THAT.

THE ANALOGY YOU USE IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT, AND SOMEWHAT FARFETCHED IF NOT UNFAIR; THERE IS NO COMPARISON AT ALL.

P.S. THE SQUARE WAS BUILT TO ACCOMODATE CONCERTS, AND THE BUSKERS...NO ARGUMENT THERE.

I'm open to suggestions like using it for art festivals as in the Toronto Art Festival or even Kitchener's Kristkindel (I think that's it) Christmas Festival which takes place once a year.
None, however,of these high profile squares have weekly markets.

[myfaceisonfire]

I AGREE. A PUBLIC MARKET IS A STUPID IDEA FOR THE SQUARE. NOT BECAUSE I THINK IT DOESN'T BELONG THEREBUT BECAUSE ST JACOBS IS SO CLOSE. HELL, I EVEN THINK THAT THE KITCHENER MARKET IS REDUNDANT GIVEN ITS PROXIMITY TO ST JACOBS. IF ANYTHING THE CITY OR GRT OR SOMEBODY SHOULD OFFER A DIRECT SHUTTLE FROM THE SQUARE TO THE MARKET ON SATURDAYS. MAYBE WALMART WOULD DO IT. THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES, FRESH PRODUCE AND DISCOUNT RAZOR BLADES!

BANANA RIDE!!!

:banaride::banaride::banaride::banaride:

[notmyfriends]

OMG BAUER BUYER USED CAPITALS HE MUST BE RIGHT! I'M SORRY TO HAVE THOUGHT OUTSIDE OF YOUR BOX, YOUR LOGIC IS INDISPUTABLE!!!1!one!!

NOTMYFACEISONFIREBANANARIDESFOREVERYONE!

[rapid_business]

....sooo back to the square....

[mark76]

public square should be public square not farmers market. nice proposal done by onishenko.

IMO design of public square however it is,is better than parking lot.
things to point out:

1.not enough people will be there ( its going to be empty )
2. waterloo square doesnt have identity of one ,well it does -shopping mall!
3.if city of waterloo decide to build office towers near public square then would make some sense ,filled with business people.

Public square is nice but having mall there is not something that will draw me.

[waterloowarrior]

/

[jcollins]

It's really too bad that where the ScotiaBank is or the Shoppers is, there wasnt a Restaurant or Pub instead. If there was it'd be an ideal place for a patio to flow out onto. That would make the square a lot more useful and have people using it far more often. Just an idea

[rapid_business]

yup, exactly. Maybe in the future... At least there is Rude Native on the northside....

[jcollins]

yup, exactly. Maybe in the future... At least there is Rude Native on the northside....

Definitely. Its too bad they couldn't somehow incorporate their patio into the public square. The train tracks kind of get in the way.

[gghtransit]

I AGREE. A PUBLIC MARKET IS A STUPID IDEA FOR THE SQUARE. NOT BECAUSE I THINK IT DOESN'T BELONG THEREBUT BECAUSE ST JACOBS IS SO CLOSE. HELL, I EVEN THINK THAT THE KITCHENER MARKET IS REDUNDANT GIVEN ITS PROXIMITY TO ST JACOBS. IF ANYTHING THE CITY OR GRT OR SOMEBODY SHOULD OFFER A DIRECT SHUTTLE FROM THE SQUARE TO THE MARKET ON SATURDAYS. MAYBE WALMART WOULD DO IT. THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES, FRESH PRODUCE AND DISCOUNT RAZOR BLADES!

BANANA RIDE!!!

:banaride::banaride::banaride::banaride:

Last time I checked GRT already runs a bus route to the Farmer's Market, they have for nearly a decade on Thursday's and Saturdays, and now the route route runs 6 days a week and out to Elmira as well, $2.50 may not exactly be free but it's sure cheap to go by bus from anywhere in the Tri-Cities or Elmira to the Market.

[dunkalunk]

Definitely. Its too bad they couldn't somehow incorporate their patio into the public square. The train tracks kind of get in the way.

Only until they build the rapid transit line, in which case, there could be 2 sets of tracks in the way, or no sets of tracks in the way.

[gghtransit]

Only until they build the rapid transit line, in which case, there could be 2 sets of tracks in the way, or no sets of tracks in the way.

Actually, according to some Waterloo City Council minutes, the RT Project staff recently made a presentation to Waterloo Council on the proposed alignments.

They have narrowed it down to...

A ) One-Way on King to Erb to Railway and One-Way on Caroline to Allen to King
B ) Two-Way on King to Allen to Caroline to Railway.

Aparently King Street isn't wide enough to accomodate two-way service between William and the railway to accomodate two-way service; so they say.

Heh, I find it a little ironic the RT EA elminated elevated and underground technologies based partly on the "fact" they were too inflexible in terms of alignment to be appropriate for the Region, now they say they can't fit a two-way LRT corridor on King.

[dunkalunk]

I don't know why King Street is 4 lanes though uptown to begin with. If you drive anything wider than a typical sedan, you're blocking both lanes of traffic regardless.

I don't think the line could be buried through uptown without excessive complications caused by Laurel Creek, although I think burying it from William to the Clay and Glass gallery would be the ultimate solution.

On a more related note, I was uptown last night and was thinking, the square has been almost done for the past 4 weeks. How long can it possibly take to finish? (especially considering it was supposed to be done in November/December)

[Bauer_buyer]

:previous: When I was reading the minutes about the LRT/BRT debate in Waterloo City Council, one part of it mentioned how the City wanted at least one 10 000 square metre office building right in the middle of Uptown. Not sure how tall something like that could end up being...

When the two story office building (northwest corner Willis Way and King st.) was built, it's the one with the huge "INVESTORS" letters on the front, there was talk of adding a ten story structure to the base...later of course.
The building, rather unexciting I think, was built on that understanding.
Can this be the office structure that our city planners are referring to?

[ForestryW]

Walked by the square today. It's pretty much done, I can see them opening it up within two weeks at the most (there's probably still some gardening to be done). I was actually impressed with the amount of open soil. Looks like the trees won't be planted in tiny cement boxes after all, which means they might actually live longer than 10 years. Imagine the square 50 years from now if those trees survive.

[jcollins]

New square around the corner

Waterloo expects once-controversial square will come alive with people, music
May 05, 2009
Liz Monteiro
RECORD STAFF

WATERLOO

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/ad/43/2d9339e34f7fa6f8d4c201530663.jpeg

A new public square in uptown Waterloo may be bustling with community events almost every weekend this summer.

And during the week, the square will be a place where people stop for lunch, meet friends, or sip coffee on their breaks.

"I want to entice people to come to the public square,'' said Tracy Suerich, Waterloo's program co-ordinator for the public square and open spaces.

"I'm trying a whole mess of things. For the month of June, I will be watching what people do and when they come."

Finishing touches are being put on the square, which got off to a controversial start when it was proposed.

It may be ready by mid-May and will officially open May 30. The $2.8-million project, on King Street at Willis Way running north to the railroad tracks, will feature six honey locust trees about 15 feet high, surrounded by tall grasses, shrubs, and perennials such as hostas and day lilies.

A concrete staircase leads to the front entrance of The Shops at Waterloo Town Square, with steps in an upper terrace for seating.

The main area will hold bistro-like tables and chairs, as well as benches.

The square will also feature a large abstract bell created by sculptor Royden Rabinowitch.

He will be in Waterloo on June 5 to officially unveil the bell.

Betty Ann Keller, manager of cultural development for the city, said a budget hasn't been set up for programming at the square. Money will be used from existing recreational budgets.

"Our goal in 2009 is to make it work,'' she said. This summer, a concert series will be held in the uptown square from late June to August, featuring folk, rock and jazz.

Other events include lunch-hour guitar lessons and ballroom dancing lessons in the evening.

Summer weekends will include Opera Kitchener's Cinderella, some of the acts of the Waterloo Jazz Festival and Uptown Country.

Spotlight on the Arts will be held June 5. At a celebration and parade will be held Sept. 12, a local military unit will be granted the honour of the city. The Olympic torch will come through the city and square in December.

Initially, the public square sparked criticism from some merchants concerned that a loss of parking spots would drive customers to suburban malls, where parking is ample and free. The square replaces 66 spots.

Last spring, council voted to go ahead with the public square but without a proposed skating rink and water wall because there wasn't enough money.

Instead, these two features were "roughed in," meaning underground work has been completed.

The city still hopes to raise $800,000 -- $300,000 for the rink and $500,000 for the water wall -- from the community and private sector businesses to help complete the wall and rink.

Barb Magee Turner, project manager for the public square, said about $170,000 has been collected to date.

Tanem Developments, which is building a 175-unit condo building at King Street and University Avenue, donated $165,000, while 10,000 Trees Project of Waterloo gave $5,000.

lmonteiro@therecord.com

[jcollins]

Am I the only one having a hard time envisioning some of the events that they have planned there?

[rapid_business]

Glad to see financial progress is being made towards the rink and waterwall, and it won't sit dormant for years to come.

[myfaceisonfire]

I see what the city was thinking with this square but I think they fell a little short. It's too bad the financing didn't work out. One of my favourite places in my favourite city is Union Square in San Francisco. It's a great example of a concrete patch that works. There's a little coffeeshopette on one side that cranks out Italian Operas all day long that really gives the square a European flair. The area is always bustling. If the city could somehow sprinkle a little of Union Square onto the uptown square I think it would do wonders:

http://z.about.com/d/sanfrancisco/1/0/g/B/-/-/unionsquare.jpg

http://www.sfcityscape.com/wallpaper/desktop/union_square_1152.jpg

[jcollins]

Glad to see financial progress is being made towards the rink and waterwall, and it won't sit dormant for years to come.

Would they wait to do it all in one shot once they had the 800k or do the rink and waterwall at separate times when the funding is there?

It would be nice to see a bit more money coming in though. As of right now it's only the two lump sums. That density bonus sure will be helpful!

[jcollins]

I see what the city was thinking with this square but I think they fell a little short. It's too bad the financing didn't work out. One of my favourite places in my favourite city is Union Square in San Francisco. It's a great example of a concrete patch that works. There's a little coffeeshopette on one side that cranks out Italian Operas all day long that really gives the square a European flair. The area is always bustling. If the city could somehow sprinkle a little of Union Square onto the uptown square I think it would do wonders:


Is it a separate shop all together or is it located within the square?

From looking at the pictures it looks like there's a couple little "stalls" but I wasn't sure if it was one of those, or one of the surrounding buildings.

Hopefully though once the greenery in our square fills in it will have a bit more of a look like this one. But correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the planters are anywhere near that large.

[myfaceisonfire]

Is it a separate shop all together or is it located within the square?

It's the stall to the furthest left of the second picture (at the "top" of the square). There are two stalls, one is a coffee shop and the other a small bistro I believe.

[WatDot]

I wish we could have palm trees.

[jcollins]

It's the stall to the furthest left of the second picture (at the "top" of the square). There are two stalls, one is a coffee shop and the other a small bistro I believe.

I like that a lot. Is it just a roll down facade to close it down then?

[scarfinv]

I don't know why King Street is 4 lanes though uptown to begin with. If you drive anything wider than a typical sedan, you're blocking both lanes of traffic regardless.

Personally, I have always loved that fact that King St is big and wide in Uptown Waterloo, with four lanes of traffic, and on street parking, and roomy sidewalks.

I find that helps make Uptown far more appealing to me because I don't get that claustrophobic feeling like I do in other areas with narrow streets and multi-story buildings.

I take King St in Waterloo as frequently as I take Weber, when I'm heading north or south through the city. As a result, I'm quite familiar with all the shops that are present in the Uptown Core, and frequent many of them as a result.

Whereas in other downtown cores, with the narrow single lanes, etc. I avoid them like the plague, and as a result I have no idea what is actually there.

[Bauer_buyer]

[QUOTE=scarfinv;4234798]I take King St in Waterloo as frequently as I take Weber, when I'm heading north or south through the city. As a result, I'm quite familiar with all the shops that are present in the Uptown Core, and frequent many of them as a result.

It's great you enjoy "uptown". I live in the core area for the same reasons and more.
Unfortunately King street in the uptown w/four lanes has become a drag strip and the noise from the cars " gunning it " needs to be addresed by city council.

[jcollins]

Public square fencing may be removed next week

May 14, 2009
RECORD STAFF

WATERLOO

The fencing around the soon-to-be-open public square could come down next week.

That means citizens will be able to enjoy the public space located at King Street and Willis Way, said Tracy Suerich, public square and open spaces program co-ordinator.

The square will officially open on May 30.

Four bistro-style tables and 16 chairs will be placed in the centre of the square.

Coca-Cola is paying for the table and chairs and also umbrellas and stands. In return, the company will have its name on the furniture.

Suerich said the free furnishings are temporary for the summer.

"We didn't want to spend money on temporary fixtures,'' she said in an interview. "We want to see how people use the public space first.''

Suerich said if residents use the tables and chairs, the city will purchase them next year and bolt them in place.

A large abstract bell created by sculptor Royden Rabinowitch will be installed May 28. The artist will be at the square.

The official unveiling of the bell will be held on June 5.

[zanate]

Suerich said if residents use the tables and chairs, the city will purchase them next year and bolt them in place.


They'll have to! Residents will "use" those tables and chairs all the way home, if you follow my meaning.

[myfaceisonfire]

Yeah, I don't give the coke tables & chairs more than a week.

[rapid_business]

/\ Haha... yeah. Probably.

[notmyfriends]

I found an event planned for the new square!

Ride for Diabetes Research

http://jdrfca.donordrive.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=donorDrive.eventDetails&eventID=733

Join us on October 7, 2009

Event Details Where: Waterloo Public Square
Waterloo, Ontario
Starts: 10/07/2009 @ 11:00am
Ends: 2:00pm
Check-in Time: 9:30AM to 1:00PM
Registration Cutoff: 10/06/2009 12:00AM
Donation Cutoff: 12/31/2009 12:00AM

Contact: Sharon Maheu Phone: 519-745-2426
E-mail Address: smaheu@jdrf.ca

[metropolis]

Moxie’s is supposedly opening Uptown Waterloo. I heard this earlier in the week but then again today so I'm thinking there may be merit in this especially seeing as Lucy's closed for reno about a month ago and I still don't think there has been any activity.

Interestingly the person I spoke to today said that the Moxie’s will be going in where the Scotiabank is in the mall so it would face the square.

That Scotia is fairly new and they would be crazy to move to a less visible location so we'll see if all this is true or not.

[razzie13]

The Conestoga Mall CIBC was fairly new too when they moved it to make way for Old Navy, so it wouldn't surprise me if it happened. There's still plenty of empty space along the new King Street buildings to accommodate Scotia as well. As for Lucy's - I think they closed on May 5th, but I've peeked inside too and saw nothing different so who knows...

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Moxie’s is supposedly opening Uptown Waterloo. I heard this earlier in the week but then again today so I'm thinking there may be merit in this especially seeing as Lucy's closed for reno about a month ago and I still don't think there has been any activity.

Interestingly the person I spoke to today said that the Moxie’s will be going in where the Scotiabank is in the mall so it would face the square.

That Scotia is fairly new and they would be crazy to move to a less visible location so we'll see if all this is true or not.

It's almost a given that a Moxie's will come to Waterloo Region eventually. Come on, even Guelph has one. I was always under the impression though that Moxie's would open as one of the two new restaurants in Conestoga Mall. When it was announced that Spring Rolls (http://www.springrolls.ca/mainFlash.html) and Oliver & Bonacini (http://www.oliverbonacini.com/obcg_portal.html) would be the two new restaurants opening at Conestoga Mall in Spring 2010, I was kind of surprised that Moxie's wasn't one one of them, even when early perspective drawings of the mall expansion showed a Moxie's... (see Moxie's perspective drawing here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3331739#post3331739)

I guess in saying all this, afterall it's not surprising that Moxie's has had plans to enter the Waterloo market, just that they didn't end up going to Conestoga Mall. Therefore, I would say this rumour is not too far off. The majority of their locations are mall based anyways, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them at Waterloo Town Square.

[rapid_business]

The majority of their locations are mall based anyways, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them at Waterloo Town Square.

Perhaps as they enter the Ontario market, but that's hardly the case out in western Canada where they started. They are predominantly a suburban power-centrist stand-alone restaurant, but do a wicked job of urban format places too.

Moxie’s is supposedly opening Uptown Waterloo. I heard this earlier in the week but then again today so I'm thinking there may be merit in this especially seeing as Lucy's closed for reno about a month ago and I still don't think there has been any activity.

Interestingly the person I spoke to today said that the Moxie’s will be going in where the Scotiabank is in the mall so it would face the square.

That Scotia is fairly new and they would be crazy to move to a less visible location so we'll see if all this is true or not.

This would be wicked news if so. Patio onto the square... you couldn't ask for a better location. (now just add the water feature...) Good on them if they landed this CRU space, and good news for us!

[WatDot]

Moxie's would be an excellent compliment to Uptown Waterloo. Good on them if they actually do open up shop there. Smart move IMO. Not a fan of the food but will go there for drinks 100%.

Scotia Bank moving to the old Lucy's location would make sense. They bitched and bitched about the Public Square and the loss of curbside parking for their clientel. Well now they can have the luxury of all worlds. Handicap parking right out front AND the public square. Weird how things work out!! :D

FYI - The Lucy's in Mississauga/Oakville on Dundas closed up shop too. Maybe a chain wide closure. Moxie's at Winston Churchill & 401 is in a big box centre... but it's Mississauga... what's not Big Box.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Moxie's would be an excellent compliment to Uptown Waterloo. Good on them if they actually do open up shop there. Smart move IMO. Not a fan of the food but will go there for drinks 100%.


What about for the scenery? (if you know what I mean...) ;)

[rapid_business]

/\ :tup:

[jcollins]

Drinks AND scenery :tup:

It'll fit in perfectly in uptown, and definitely be popular!

I can just picture the patio flowing out onto the square. Perfect Fit!

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Ok, regardless if the rumour is true or not, I think the unanimous concensus on the SSP:Waterloo Region forum is that a Moxie's fronting onto the new public square in Uptown would be a smashing hit. Hey Moxie's head office - are you listening???? :P

Maybe this will encourage something to be done to the Shoppers Drug Mart facade too.

[WatDot]

What about for the scenery? (if you know what I mean...) ;)

Sorry you are right.
I will go there 120%!! :yes:

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

FROM THIS

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9329/p1130345aj8.jpg

TO THIS! :banana:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1881/p4280304.jpg

more images to be uploaded shortly from the grand opening!

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Uptown Waterloo Public Square Grand Opening

May 30, 2009

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6807/p4280257.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3416/p4280261.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5596/p4280262.jpg

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7508/p4280268.jpg
Mayor Halloran & City of Waterloo Council

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1372/p4280269.jpg

[waterloowarrior]

thanks for the great pictures!! looks good! it will nice to see the main WTS parking lot filled in the future.

[gghtransit]

FROM THIS

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9329/p1130345aj8.jpg

TO THIS! :banana:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1881/p4280304.jpg

more images to be uploaded shortly from the grand opening!

HOLY COW! The before and after shots really do speak volumes about how much it's changed. I'd almost forgotten what the Parking Lot looked like originally. Heck I'm even straining to try and remember what the "old" Waterloo Square looked like with Liquidation World still there...ick.

My how things change! :tup:

[WatDot]

The contrast is like night and day. The cost seems high for what is there... but whatever... it's an improvement no question.

Wonder what's on the roof above Shoppers now. Looks like building materials?

[mackeast]

Mike, you got a picture of me! See if you can find it...

[scarfinv]

My husband and I were there on Saturday, too. You got a picture of my husband in the distance, but none of me. :haha:

We really liked the square. Lots of open space, and yet lots of seating too. I think it should end up quite functional, and well used.