Downtown Update

[coalminecanary]

The name 'Street Meat' would infer that it's going to be a take-away place. Will there be seating or just counter service?

Liquor license application in today's paper:
"Street Meat BBQ" at 61 young street Hamilton (indoor area)

i hope they get it!

[Millstone]

Hi -- i'm new on this board.

If your in Jackson Sq. you may want to check Decco's Deli (near Coles Bookstore). The food is great and the guys who run it could teach clinics in customer service.

Is this the one that's open really early?

[markk]

Not sure what time Decco's opens ... but they have good coffee in the morning and nice soups at lunch (for really cheap). Its also worth noting that other day a couple of women were there giving out free cheesecake and baked goods. I think they were from Market Street bakery (perhaps a home-based business) looks like they might be partnering up...

I also noticed in JS today that Taste of Vietnam is now 'Cobo' ... still Vietnamese. Anyone try it yet?

[Millstone]

I always laughed at the title of "TASTE OF VIETNAM" for some reason

[raisethehammer]

also, Shanghai Tea Merchant is opening soon next to Deco's Deli.

[raisethehammer]

New International Village Resto:

Sparkle Chinese Cuisine @ King & Mary Sts.

I absolutely love the signage!! Too bad the King/Walnut buildings that were recently reno'd didn't do something like this instead of painting crap on their windows.

[FairHamilton]

Liquor license application in today's paper:
"Street Meat BBQ" at 61 young street Hamilton (indoor area)

i hope they get it!

They should only get it if they change their name. I'm still of the opinion the name blows (that's usually what happens with street meat...).

Then again the fact they changed a cool, retro facade shows they are lacking in creativity.

They should have kept it the same, incorporated 'Imperial" into their name (or not). They could have set the place like 5 Doors North in Toronto (or at least how it used to be, I haven't been there in years). There was an old furniture sign above the restaurant, but that just added to it's uniqueness and appeal.

[raisethehammer]

did they wreck the imperial facade?? man, I loved that.

[FairHamilton]

Any one know what's up with Three16? I was by today and they had a note in the door about being closed for the evening, and they've cut a doorway into the unit next door (west side). There were no workers, and the sign looked a little older than today.

Are they expanding?

Also, I see the breakfast/lunch place a few doors to the west, Spoons is back on track. Originally, there was a sign about a July opening, but all work there seemed to stop. Now there's one saying November 2008, with workers doing work on the front door.

[raisethehammer]

I think an art gallery is opening next to 316 Lounge.
Glad that spoons is back on track. apparently the guy came down with cancer which stopped the work.

[raisethehammer]

more info here:

http://www.thetemporarygallery.ca/

[flar]

Most of the Beasley area is blocked off, word on the street is homicide. I saw the forensics unit pull up and there is a massive police presence all over.

[matt602]

Yep. 6th murder of the year somewhere on Cannon, apparently.

[MsMe]

Yep. 6th murder of the year somewhere on Cannon, apparently.

We seem to be below the average so far this year which is a good thing.

[raisethehammer]

this new 'grumpy greek' on john north was friggin packed at lunch today. just jammed. lots of suit/tie office guys too.
i'll have to check it out.

[raisethehammer]

has the westside concert theatre closed down?? the marquee keeps showing the next concert and it's changed venue.
the current shows says "changed to Carmens".

[matt602]

this new 'grumpy greek' on john north was friggin packed at lunch today. just jammed. lots of suit/tie office guys too.
i'll have to check it out.

Weird. I passed the place last week and it was empty at about 3pm.

[raisethehammer]

the 'street meat' place has taken off the beautiful facade. no clue what they're doing. hopefully not stucco.

[realcity]

I don't know where to put this..... because I don't want to give that ass Lieberman his own thread....

but I officially can't stand him now.

First the Tivoli collapsed on his watch... okay i believed his defense. But after watching him on Cable 14's Opinionators -- several times -- I formed my own opinion that he's nothing but a whiner and uses his name to get what he thinks he deserves.

Now this belly-aching about the Westdale Theatre and the City refusing a drinking license... WTF . do your business plan.... not two years in then blame everyone for his failure. I understand that a liquor license is a nice revenue, but if the theatre product is good, i fail to see how not having a liquor license is a deal breaker.

Why not make a package deal with a nearby LLBO establishment to 'use' their license, if his patrons need to booze-up. Have an auction at intermission to raise money? There's other things to do while waiting for an LLBO, which should've happened two years ago. Maybe the City doesn't want to play ball with Lieberman because he shits on everyone. ever thought of that???

[raisethehammer]

how about a slightly different take:

the city needs a new zoning designation called 'EH' - empty commercial.
That's what all their zoning loopholes and big song and dance procedures end up resulting across the city.
How many times have we heard about the city being the biggest obstacle in business ventures.... Pearl Company is currently going through this. Westinghouse still sits empty thanks to the visionaries at the hall.
Lieberman may be a jerk, but this city is so antiquated and stuck in the past it's disgusting.
stripping away zoning obstacles and heavy-handed requirements are what allowed King West in Toronto to boom back to life after being an empty industrial district.
Seems Hamilton council is more than happy to keep our city as an empty industrial district because "that use doesn't comply with our zoning from 1943"....what a bunch of idiots.

[markbarbera]

Liebermann's current woes with the Westside Theatre are his own doing, not the city's. It is a result of his failure to do due diligence when buying the place. Now he's trying to manipulate the media to do an end-run around city bylaw enforcement rather than abiding by them from the get-go. He has no sympathy here.

Apply for the zoning change and operate within the current restrictions until it gets passed. It's not like he is losing gigs because of the lack of liquor licensing. He's managed with special event permits until this point. Why a need for a permanent licence now all of a sudden? What changes to the venue does he plan?

[ryan_mcgreal]

Now he's trying to manipulate the media to do an end-run around city bylaw enforcement rather than abiding by them from the get-go.

That may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that the city's morass of bylaws is a) bad for business in itself and b) painfully slow and cumbersome to work through. If someone wants to buy a property, invest in renovating it and operate a business out of it, the city should be fast, simple, and responsive to deal with. Instead, the city itself is one of the biggest obstacles.

It's past time that Hamilton moves from zoning-based codes (strained peas over here, mashed potatoes over there) to form (http://raisethehammer.org/article/173/)- and performance (http://raisethehammer.org/blog/425/)-based codes.

[markbarbera]

The city is not impeding his operation of a theater here. This is a 'licensing to sell alcohol' issue here. Not just city red tape. And the licensing committee is hyper-sensitive to application handling these days. And so they should be. I surely don't want them rushing through licensed bar approvals. That's how we end up with places like the infamous former C.D. Bar on Ottawa Street.

Personally I don't like how this site is evolving. It was first supposed to be a new theatre venue, now it needs a permanent liquor licence for concerts and weddings?

[ryan_mcgreal]

It was first supposed to be a new theatre venue, now it needs a permanent liquor licence for concerts and weddings?

I've never been to a theatre that didn't serve alcohol. Heck, even movie theatres are now starting to include licenced areas (e.g. the Silver City Oakville on Burloak). Comparing Westside Theatre to CD Bar is a real stretch.

[raisethehammer]

this isn't the 1940's anymore.
The city's zoning is completely out of date. Back then, nobody in their right mind would envision at old factory on Steven Street being used as a residential loft, theatre, performing space, art gallery, lounge etc.....
nobody would have envisioned a TV studio being used for weddings, banquents, concerts, theatre etc.....

It's how other cities end up with wicked places like the Distillery District, King West (TO) and Pearl District (Portland).

"we've never allowed liquor in old factories so we sure aren't going to now, darn it!" is not the way of bringing Hamilton into the 21st Century and attracting all the 'cool kids' from TO as the National Post put it.

[realcity]

there's two arguments happening here.

1. YES The City's by-laws are extremely outdated. I get it. But.....

2. Lieberman has only himself to fault. If he's trying to prove a point about outdated by-laws he's certainly not doing a good job. LLBOs are one thing, but the city first should start with multi-use zoning allowances and drop the ridiculous parking requirements.

I agree with markbarera.... operate on 'stag' licenses and lobby for a rezone/LLBO. But why has he waited until now to do this? Also the place is a dive.. it was pitched as a new 'theatre' not a place for stag & does and weddings.

I've been to many OPera and Aquarius productions and while there is some drinking at intermission, it's only a 12-24 at most in line. It could have to do with intermission is only about 10 minutes long by the time you make your way to the lobby. Lieberman's format may be different but I'm sure with some creative problem solving he can have a temp solution, instead of another blame game a la Tivoli.

[markbarbera]

I've never been to a theatre that didn't serve alcohol. Heck, even movie theatres are now starting to include licenced areas (e.g. the Silver City Oakville on Burloak).

My point is, the licensing and zoning should have been something attended to at the time of purchase in 2005, not three years after the fact. How is it the city's fault that the owner did not properly license it from the start - and was apparantly unaware of its zoning restrictions? If he had done his homework, the zoning issue would have come to light years ago.

Everyone is on the same page about bylaws and the amount of paperwork a business owner needs to deal with to get a business up and running in this city. Tim McCabe has identified this as a problem and committed himself to improving the overall process. Perhaps this case should be a reason to support his efforts, rather than the typical knee-jerk criticism of the city.

[crhayes]

how about a slightly different take:

the city needs a new zoning designation called 'EH' - empty commercial.
That's what all their zoning loopholes and big song and dance procedures end up resulting across the city.
How many times have we heard about the city being the biggest obstacle in business ventures.... Pearl Company is currently going through this. Westinghouse still sits empty thanks to the visionaries at the hall.
Lieberman may be a jerk, but this city is so antiquated and stuck in the past it's disgusting.
stripping away zoning obstacles and heavy-handed requirements are what allowed King West in Toronto to boom back to life after being an empty industrial district.
Seems Hamilton council is more than happy to keep our city as an empty industrial district because "that use doesn't comply with our zoning from 1943"....what a bunch of idiots.

LOL...I've never met any of the councilors...but every time I read one of your posts I get more and more afraid to. It's almost to the point where (in my head) they are diseased!! :haha:

[ryan_mcgreal]

My point is, the licensing and zoning should have been something attended to at the time of purchase in 2005, not three years after the fact.

I'm not disputing this, except to suggest that their business plan seems to have changed since they first opened the theatre (as most business plans do once they come into contact with reality).

My point is that if Hamilton had effective, investment-friendly licencing and coding regulations - as many other cities already have - this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

Everyone is on the same page about bylaws and the amount of paperwork a business owner needs to deal with to get a business up and running in this city. Tim McCabe has identified this as a problem and committed himself to improving the overall process. Perhaps this case should be a reason to support his efforts, rather than the typical knee-jerk criticism of the city.

It's not knee-jerk criticism to complain that the city hasn't done something it needs to do so badly that everyone agrees about it, from urban activists to the general manager of planning and economic development.

[emge]

LOL...I've never met any of the councilors...but every time I read one of your posts I get more and more afraid to. It's almost to the point where (in my head) they are diseased!! :haha:

We've got a few good ones too. Don't (entirely) despair.

[raisethehammer]

We've got a few good ones too. Don't (entirely) despair.

most certainly.
some are absolutely great.
Unfortunately, that is the minority. I've had various dealings with the city over the years and the nonsense you have to go through in the planning/zoning departments is unreal.
No wonder home-builders just start bribing staff and paying for councillors election campaigns. It's way easier and cheaper than dealing with the never-ending red tape.

But yes, some councillors do a great job and I'm sure most, if not all, are wonderful people.

[adam]

:jester:

[raisethehammer]

Spoons Cafe is open on King East in IV now.
Hard to tell how busy it is riding by with the frosted glass windows...I hate it when eateries make their windows hard to see through from the outside.

[thistleclub]

Re: Westside

The Tivoli was licensed, was it not? And will this mean that Creative Arts Inc., the other half of the operation, has to find a new home? (My curiosity is componded by the domain action at http://www.creativearts.on.ca.)

[crhayes]

Spoons Cafe is open on King East in IV now.
Hard to tell how busy it is riding by with the frosted glass windows...I hate it when eateries make their windows hard to see through from the outside.

I would think people inside appreciate it ;)

[highwater]

I doubt that. Part of the reason people dine out is to see and be seen.

[adam]

Tinting windows of a restaurant is a suburban idea where you go to a restaurant to forget that you are in a subdivision.

A downtown restaurant, on the other hand, benefits from the streetscape and it adds to the experience. Maxim's Deli had this feel to it. I used to enjoy eating there and watching the happenings on King St. The owner was from Toronto.

[raisethehammer]

yea, Spoons is on a great stretch across the street from a bunch of buildings that have been beautifully renovated in the past couple years.
You want people inside to enjoy gazing out over the street and you want people walking by to look inside and see a nice, bustling scene.
I guess in the suburbs you can eat in a big, windowless box since nobody is walking by and there's nothing to look at, but downtown I NEVER go into a place without windows or with windows covered up.

[raisethehammer]

another new restaurant opening soon on King at Catharine. Called Pineapple Thai I think.

[crhayes]

yea, Spoons is on a great stretch across the street from a bunch of buildings that have been beautifully renovated in the past couple years.
You want people inside to enjoy gazing out over the street and you want people walking by to look inside and see a nice, bustling scene.
I guess in the suburbs you can eat in a big, windowless box since nobody is walking by and there's nothing to look at, but downtown I NEVER go into a place without windows or with windows covered up.

Hmm, well I live in the suburbs and I am currently a broke student, so as much as I would like to start checking out restaurants downtown I can't for now.

Anyone want to pick up the tab? :) lol

[raisethehammer]

Hmm, well I live in the suburbs and I am currently a broke student, so as much as I would like to start checking out restaurants downtown I can't for now.

Anyone want to pick up the tab? :) lol

LOL...I hear ya. Been there, done that.
Lots of freebies at fast food joints back then. ugh, I can't believe what I used to eat! haha

[emge]

Hmm, well I live in the suburbs and I am currently a broke student, so as much as I would like to start checking out restaurants downtown I can't for now.

Anyone want to pick up the tab? :) lol

I hear ya.. I visit a lot of places just for a coffee, or coffee and dessert... its a nice way to get to know new places without spending a fortune.

(I love the Bad Dog Cafe, and I just took my father-in-law for a burger there a few weeks ago. Coming from the world of Boston Pizza and Wendy's, he felt a little out of place... but it was a good enough burger to change his mind!)

[ryan_mcgreal]

oming from the world of Boston Pizza and Wendy's, he felt a little out of place... but it was a good enough burger to change his mind!)

Lisa is extremely proud of her burgers.

[raisethehammer]

I didn't know they sell burgers there. Lol.

[emge]

I found out last night that

-- the G.P. Grumpy's building at King/Locke has been bought - the apartments above are going to be renovated, not sure what the downstairs will be turned into. (Something like this (http://www.wiredmonk.com/index2.asp)would be neat, but I'm just dreaming here.)

-- the King West BIA took a look (again, i think - was this explored a couple years ago too?) at the possibility of expanding farther on King West - several businesses from between Queen and Dundurn attended their meeting last week to give their input and support for that and figure out what might be possible.

[raisethehammer]

hopefully good news about GP Grumpys.
The BIA expanding would be great too.

Frig me...the west coast has so much more cooler coffeehouses than here it's disgusting.
Spot Coffee on Elmwood in Buffalo is the closest thing in this part of the world. I wish the Hammer would get one downtown.
GP Grumpys would be ideal with the eclectic population in the area.

[crhayes]

hopefully good news about GP Grumpys.
The BIA expanding would be great too.

Frig me...the west coast has so much more cooler coffeehouses than here it's disgusting.
Spot Coffee on Elmwood in Buffalo is the closest thing in this part of the world. I wish the Hammer would get one downtown.
GP Grumpys would be ideal with the eclectic population in the area.

I think expanding the BIA to Dundurn would be great....I always considered that stretch as part of the downtown (it sure feels like it). Plus if they convert King to two-way it will be right off the highway - good plan to have money dumped into that section to spruce it up :D

[Hammer Town]

Hamilton buys strip club

November 24, 2008
Nicole MacIntyre, The Hamilton Spectator
City buys strip club
By Nicole MacIntyre
The city says it is the proud new owner of a downtown strip joint.
CityHousing penned a deal last week to buy Maxim’s with a long-term plan of converting the Gore Park club into public housing.
“This is a strategic move,” said Councillor Brian McHattie, president of CityHousing Hamilton.
He said the purchase serves a dual purpose of adding housing to the core, while also helping to clean up the downtown’s image. The property is beside the Gore Building, a new subsidized apartment built by the city. In a release, the city said the deal will close next month.
That’s news to Dan Charnicovsky, Maxim’s registered owner, who says he also owns the King Street building. Though the property is for sale, the Windsor man says there’s no deal on the table.
“I haven’t sold it to anyone. I don’t know what’s going on,” he said tonight.
Chris Murray, the city’s director of housing, said he can’t discuss confidential details of the deal, but said the city plans to shut down the strip club. “That business is done.”
The city hopes to find a new tenant to cover operating expenses. Eventually, Murray said, there’s plans for housing, including an option for subsidized units for artists.
Murray declined to reveal the purchase price, saying it was “reasonable.”
Earlier this year, council approved $1 million for CityHousing to buy a property in the core.
The strip club, formerly known as Chez M and Bannisters, is a “sad remnant of the downtown’s past era of decline,” said Councillor Bob Bratina.
Maxim’s owner has not applied to transfer the strip club’s licence to another location.
A new strip club could not open downtown or within 500 metres of a residential neighbourhood.
The closure will leave only one operating strip joint in Hamilton.

This is some good news.

[emge]

that's incredible news! :D! ("that's a whole new level of good" as the one reading over my shoulder said).

[FRM]

Great news! Hopefully that XXX cinema also gets bought soon. Anyone know what's the status of The Gore building? has it been filled yet?

How many more of these subsidized buildings will the city build around downtown? It would be nice to have some high end apartment building (the size of the Gore Building) built in downtown too.

[crhayes]

Well, as long as it is true that the city will be acquiring it...then it is great news! Too bad it wasn't the Hamilton Newsstand that was bought though; I think it's even nastier.

Either way it's good for Gore!

[BrianE]

Is the City required to build public housing with every new property they acquire?

Can they make this one a straight up apartment building with monthly rents geared to market rates?

It would be nice to have some more residents with disposable income in the downtown.

[block43]

Is the City required to build public housing with every new property they acquire?

Can they make this one a straight up apartment building with monthly rents geared to market rates?

It would be nice to have some more residents with disposable income in the downtown.

Agreed!

[markbarbera]

Well, as long as it is true that the city will be acquiring it...then it is great news! Too bad it wasn't the Hamilton Newsstand that was bought though; I think it's even nastier.

Either way it's good for Gore!

The city has been thumscrewing the owners of Hamilton Newstand of late. Its days are numbered. The bingo shop has to go too. I always envisioned it as a great spot for a Winners location, or even as the new location for the downtown Canadian Tire at Victoria and Main.

[Jon Dalton]

I hope you're right about Delta Bingo, I effing hate that place. It would be a great location for a full size grocery store. Crappy Tire wouldn't work because they need to have an auto shop.

[crhayes]

The city has been thumscrewing the owners of Hamilton Newstand of late. Its days are numbered. The bingo shop has to go too. I always envisioned it as a great spot for a Winners location, or even as the new location for the downtown Canadian Tire at Victoria and Main.

I agree about it having to go. The only thing is, during the day it actually gets pretty busy (owner may be reluctant to give up the property).

I always thought it would be a good spot for a nice Restaurant/Lounge/Nightclub (but a high end classy kinda one).

A winners like the one on Younge (or College....can't remember lol) in downtown T.O. would be good....it has a nice style.

[raisethehammer]

I hope you're right about Delta Bingo, I effing hate that place. It would be a great location for a full size grocery store. Crappy Tire wouldn't work because they need to have an auto shop.

plus the new crappy tires need to have 40 foot ceilings with blinding lights.

A grocery or Winners type place would be awesome there.

[adam]

Great! Now that the city owns the strip bar, Lloyd Ferguson can get free lapdances!

[LikeHamilton]

Latest on the strip club owner saying he knows nothing!

McHattie insists that it's not surprising that the building's registered owner is quoted as being unaware of the purchase, which is to be finalized next month.

He adds that the city has been dealing directly with a mortgagee under a power of sale situation (900 CHML News)

[raisethehammer]

Great! Now that the city owns the strip bar, Lloyd Ferguson can get free lapdances!

haha... I won't say what I want to say because it involves a strange combo of heavy machinery and farm animals. Lol.

[raisethehammer]

with proper planning and decent city council, Hamilton could have a vibe like this:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=161416

In the meantime (and possibly forever) enjoy your one-way freeways, malls, empty sidewalks, storefronts and shopping districts.

[MsMe]

haha... I won't say what I want to say because it involves a strange combo of heavy machinery and farm animals. Lol.

Talking about strip tease, well I just found this on the net and had to post it.

November 06, 2008
Strip tease
Councillor Bob Bratina made me laugh out loud today with this mass email to media outlets:

I stormed out of my office today after hearing that a new strip club was about to open across from Gore Park. No new strip clubs are permitted beyond the three now in operation so I was ready to ask for an immediate stop work order and that applicable charges be laid. No further action was taken when I was informed it was just a movie set. :haha: :haha:




http://hallmarks.thespec.com/2008/11/strip-tease.html

[thistleclub]

PUBLIC MEETING RE: HPL & FARMERS' MARKET RENOVATIONS
Saturday, January 10, 10am
Hamilton Public Library Auditorium (Central Branch)
55 York Blvd, Hamilton

The City of Hamilton is planning to renovate both the Farmers' Market and Hamilton Public Library - Central Branch. This public meeting will provide an opportunity for the public to review the final designs for the renovations. Architect David Premi will present a video simulation and artist renderings to illustrate the changes that will be made to the two downtown landmarks.

[SteelTown]

^
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140355&page=3

[thistleclub]

Apologies. Somehow missed that thread. My coffee must be broken.

[FairHamilton]

Apologies. Somehow missed that thread. My coffee must be broken.

But thanks for the reminder. Over the holidays I'd forgotten all about this one.

[emge]

Spoons Cafe is open on King East in IV now.
Hard to tell how busy it is riding by with the frosted glass windows...I hate it when eateries make their windows hard to see through from the outside.

speaking of coffee, I'm going to stop by that cafe a second time... I got a coffee when they first opened up, and it was awful.. Not coffee-snob awful, but "this-tastes-like-bad-instant-coffee" awful.

But the one guy working was also dealing with some some Internet hookup issue, and they were friendly, so I'll give them a second shot and hopefully it was just a bad pot or something. Otherwise, I don't see how a cafe can survive that long with bad coffee, especially with FRWY across the street.

[FairHamilton]

speaking of coffee, I'm going to stop by that cafe a second time... I got a coffee when they first opened up, and it was awful.. Not coffee-snob awful, but "this-tastes-like-bad-instant-coffee" awful.

But the one guy working was also dealing with some some Internet hookup issue, and they were friendly, so I'll give them a second shot and hopefully it was just a bad pot or something. Otherwise, I don't see how a cafe can survive that long with bad coffee, especially with FRWY across the street.

They aren't open on weekends! I don't know how a breakfast place can survive when they don't open on weekends. I thought that was the time that people went out for breakfast......

Time will tell.

[Jon Dalton]

Green Deli is getting better. They have focaccias now, and Locke Street bagels. If you're looking for anything on a sunday morning, this is your only bet, seeing as the rest of the street shuts down.

Something finally opened in the Claudias building, a thrift store. It's called Magical Mystery Store. They have records, clothes and assorted junk. Mostly garbage, but they did only just open. If you have anything to get rid of, please take it there instead of Value, which is just another big box. I can't see this place possibly making rent in this location, but more power to them for trying.

Also, this isn't new but I must put a good word in for the Coffee House at James and Bold. I'd passed this by for years being a regular House of Java customer, but I rediscovered it over the last month. They have a broad selection of coffee and tea accessories such as french presses, gold filters and even a vacuum brewer. They serve espresso based beverages as well as brewed coffee and they sell beans. I've got my last couple pounds of beans there and they are top quality. Check this place out if you haven't already.

[emge]

Also, this isn't new but I must put a good word in for the Coffee House at James and Bold. I'd passed this by for years being a regular House of Java customer, but I rediscovered it over the last month. They have a broad selection of coffee and tea accessories such as french presses, gold filters and even a vacuum brewer. They serve espresso based beverages as well as brewed coffee and they sell beans. I've got my last couple pounds of beans there and they are top quality. Check this place out if you haven't already.

I've been wanting to head down there, but I'm rarely on James South for any other reason - you've given me another reason to make a point of it.

[markbarbera]

I would probably frequent FRWY if it weren't for its Salvation Army connection.

[matt602]

I would probably frequent FRWY if it weren't for its Salvation Army connection.

I had heard about some kind of very close religious connection that the place has. Never went though so it remains a rumour to me.

[adam]

Yep. They are affiliated with a religious thing. I looked over their "mission statement" and it looked fine. Nothing suspicious, etc. I've been a few times and its a great place. Free wireless, great selection of non-alcoholic beverages. Some great local live music too. Great to see the building - an old bank - used for something cool.

[markbarbera]

It's my personal preference not to spend money supporting the Salvation Army. I'll have my coffee in a non-denominational establishment.

[emge]

The new giant Salvation Army sign outside doesn't help, does it?

I was talking to their coffeehouse manager a while back and found out a few things. (I brought in a group of teenagers to hear about the work they're doing)

They operate as a volunteer-run, non-profit coffeehouse, but their profits don't go to the SA, they go to everything from local community projects to international relief work, etc. The volunteers who run the coffeehouse don't necessarily have any religious connection or faith background at all, or connection to the SA at all

Where the money goes impressed me quite a bit. Even though I have a clear faith background myself, I respect them not just funnelling things to their own channels or faith organizations, but to projects that no matter what one's background is, you can consider it a worthy cause. It's also given to several types of charities with diverse purposes. The common thread is non-political, non-controversial initiatives that focus on caring for people, communities, the environment - real stuff that almost anyone can get behind. The care for the environment also impressed me (although I'm not sure why they still use foam cups despite of this :P)

A church meets there Sunday nights and I believe another one rents their space Sunday mornings, so that's why they're not open Sundays. I think the shorter hours as of late is mostly due to lack of volunteer time.

My only irritation with FRWY is that although they have great fair-trade stuff, they do espressos, but not cappucinos or lattes. I can make coffee at home, but I don't own a $400 espresso machine!. :jester: I'm sure it's a cost issue and/or the difficulty level for the volunteers though. At least they always have soy and honey out, which a lot of coffee shops cheap out on or keep behind the counter.

[adam]

It's my personal preference not to spend money supporting the Salvation Army. I'll have my coffee in a non-denominational establishment.

If that's the case, be sure to avoid Starbucks. Its owner, Howard Schultz uses company profits to fund controversial zionist projects.

[Dundasguy]

It's my personal preference not to spend money supporting the Salvation Army. I'll have my coffee in a non-denominational establishment.

See you at church.

[bornagainbiking]

For the love of God. (no pun intended), if the service is good the staff friendly and the coffee acceptable who cares what they do with their (THEIR) profit. For all you know any bar in your (anywhere) area, could be spending all their dough on drugs or the corner store is sending money home to sponsor adverse causes. Don't read too much into things.
For the record the SA has many causes and is very dedicated, who else would wear those uniforms in public. They help many that really need it and have always been there for the less desireables.
Heck I know how much tim Hortons does for our troops over seas our and all of NATO however i heard that Starbucks refuses to do anything for the US military because they don't agree with the foreign policy. It's supoosed to be about the troops. So I boycott STARBUCKS.
Support your neighbourhood I like Seattles Best at Locke street bakery.

[adam]

Interesting fact: Seattles Best is owned by Starbucks. But I totally agree with you Bornagain, who cares! You have to live your life.

[hmagazine]

Support your neighbourhood I like Seattles Best at Locke street bakery.
Really support your neighbourhood - buy Speakeasy! It's local and tasty!

www.whiteelephantvintage.com

[Jon Dalton]

Where is Steve roasting now? I've missed him since Skydragon booted him out.

[adam]

Since we're on the topic of coffee, i wanted to remind people of the friendly guy at the farmer's market when you walk in from York Blvd entrance, turn right and he's on the right side halfway down the ramp. Great turkish coffee and baklavah.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Since we're on the topic of coffee, i wanted to remind people of the friendly guy at the farmer's market when you walk in from York Blvd entrance, turn right and he's on the right side halfway down the ramp. Great turkish coffee and baklavah.

That's Ray. His spinach pies are also very tasty - but you're best to get them when a fresh order comes in. Otherwise they're previously frozen and not as nice.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Where is Steve roasting now?

As far as I know, he and his partner moved out to the country.

I've missed him since Skydragon booted him out.

What happened there?

[ryan_mcgreal]

controversial zionist projects.

Zionist != religious.

[thistleclub]

The Pagoda has a new sign -- installed right above of their awning on the King face. Block red with a weird generic, vaguely Asian yellow script. It's nothing to write home about and probably looks like crap in daylight but at least they left the neon alone.

Speaking of home, the Gore Building is flyered at street level, trying to fill 16 1Br apartments for $650/month. I'm told the evening breeze is scented with eggrolls and plum sauce. Which sounds pretty good to me right about now.

[matt602]

That seems kinda steep for "affordable housing".

[FairHamilton]

That seems kinda steep for "affordable housing".

And too bad they mono-sized them all as 1br.

I think it would be better to have a mixture of housing stock (i.e. 1br + den, or 2br) to attract a cross section of people to the area.

[adam]

Zionist != religious.

They are not equal, but everything I've read shows that one is a direct consequence of the other. Correct me if I'm wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promised_land

[SteelTown]

The Gore Building isn't an affordable housing project. It's geared towards students.

[emge]

That's the first I've heard of it being geared towards students - where did you find that out?

[FairHamilton]

The Gore Building isn't an affordable housing project. It's geared towards students.

lol, perhaps they should have built a school close by first.

[emge]

From my little stretch of King:

A little bit of progress on the former G.P. Grumpy's building:
-- A few new windows are upstairs.
-- The snow/ice on the sidewalk is being cleared much more regularly.
-- I'm itching to find out more about the new owners' plans for the downstairs, since I haven't had the chance to meet them yet.

Regarding the potential westward expansion of the King BIA, I believe a second meeting is taking place this upcoming Monday.

[ryan_mcgreal]

They are not equal, but everything I've read shows that one is a direct consequence of the other. Correct me if I'm wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promised_land

The Zionist takeover of Palestine was "religious" only in the superficial sense of religious belief serving as an excuse for geopolitical movements with much broader motivations.

Diaspora support for the creation of a Jewish state stemmed largely from widespread prejudice, marginalization and persecution (culminating in the Holocaust). Most European Jews concluded that this persecution would continue unless and until they established their own country.

Given the prominence of the Covenant in Abrahamic law and traditions, it was a no-brainer that the proposed country should be in the same region that the ancestral Jewish people had controlled from around 1,000 BCE to 586 BCE - when it was taken over by the Babylonian empire, then 50 years later by the Persian empire, then two hundred years later by the Macedonian empire, then a hundred years later by the Seleucids, then a hundred years later by the Romans and later by the Byzantines after Rome split, then a few hundred years later by the Persians (again), then the Muslims, then the European Crusaders, then the Tatars, then the Ottomans, then Egypt, and finally Britain (whew!).

Support for a Jewish state in Palestine was strong in the European countries, who saw in the creation of a Zionist state the simultaneous accomplishment of two goals: atoning, somehow, for the horrors of the Holocaust; and also, paradoxically, a way to get rid of their Jewish populations (these were, after all, the same countries that had stood aside to allow, and in some cases actively participated in, the Holocaust).

Recall that before WWII broke out, many German Jews had tried, unsuccessfully, to escape to other countries - but no country wanted to accept these refugees even though everyone knew what was going on in Germany.

Recall also that the long period of political manoeuvring that led to the establishment of Israel - including the 1917 Balfour Declaration (which, incidentally, asserted that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine") and the UN's 1947 Partition Plan - was conducted in an international environment in which the Middle Eastern countries were still colonial holdings of the European countries.

Like all empires, the European countries generally felt entitled to do as they pleased with the Middle East: split or amalgamate populations and draw national borders to suit Europe's interests. This would change eventually as the United Nations drew up the set of international laws that ostensibly governs international affairs to this day, but this legal framework was still in development in the late 1940s.

(The European support for a Jewish state in Palestine could be likened to the British government offering land in North America to its Religious Dissenters (e.g. Puritans) in the 17th century. Like Palestine, North America was already populated, and the existing inhabitants were displaced to make room for the colonists.)

As Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour himself put it in a later letter:


Whatever be the future of Palestine it is not now an 'independent nation', nor is it yet on the way to become one. Whatever deference should be paid to the views of those living there, the Powers in their selection of a mandatory do not propose, as I understand the matter, to consult them. ...

If Zionism is to influence the Jewish problem throughout the world [emphasis added], Palestine must be made available for the largest number of Jewish immigrants.


In summary: Zionism was a) motivated mainly by European anti-Semitism and b) empowered by a broad European desire to settle the "Jewish problem". Against this larger political situation, religion as such played only a modest and mostly rhetorical role.

[adam]

Here's an interesting article written by a professor living in Israel that complicates the matter further. He states that there is no separation between religion and state in Israel (section 2b.)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/freedom.html

ANYWAY, back to downtown updates!

[matt602]

Whoa, how is this thread about the Gaza conflict now?

[flar]

Somehow this thread became Gaza update instead of downtown update :shrug: but I'm not going to just delete ryan_mcgreal's essay.

[thistleclub]

Whoa, how is this thread about the Gaza conflict now?

Downtown link: They hold clamorous gatherings in Gore Park for protesters unaware that the Embassy is a LGBT nightclub and not a foreign consulate.

[FRM]

i was driving by there two nights ago and i saw a man spraying what looked like water over the baseball diamond. anyone else pass by this or happen to know if they are actually putting in an outdoor rink?

[geoff's two cents]

Somehow this thread became Gaza update instead of downtown update :shrug: but I'm not going to just delete ryan_mcgreal's essay.

I'd suggest creating a new thread, but it would inevitably be hijacked by anti-Semites or anti-Palestine factions. In the meantime, I thoroughly enjoyed the synopsis, Ryan.