Mountain Plaza

[BCTed]

Has the new Walmart store opened? Last time I was there, it was almost ready.

Not yet.


.

[bigguy1231]

Has the new Walmart store opened? Last time I was there, it was almost ready.

It's supposed to open in September. They are putting the shelving in now.

[RaginRonic]

The new Hamilton Mountain Plaza Walmart will be open for business on September 17. =)

And it is going to become the 4th grocery store located on Upper James Street, joining Fortinos near Rymal, and Metro and No Frills on Upper James and Mohawk.

The grocery area will be located on the right hand side of the store, while the department store portion will be on the left hand side.

And it will have a McDonald's in there too.

Hope this info is useful. =)

[bigguy1231]

The new Hamilton Mountain Plaza Walmart will be open for business on September 17. =)

And it is going to become the 4th grocery store located on Upper James Street, joining Fortinos near Rymal, and Metro and No Frills on Upper James and Mohawk.

The grocery area will be located on the right hand side of the store, while the department store portion will be on the left hand side.

And it will have a McDonald's in there too.

Hope this info is useful. =)

It's not going to be a grocery store. It won't have anymore grocery area than the current store. That was part of the developement agreement they have with the city. Originally they wanted to put a Super Centre there, but the neighbours objected and so did the city.

[Jon Dalton]

I went down Upper James the other day (I do go 'up there' on occasion - for the u-brew place) and saw the new storefronts. As much as I have a strong distaste for this format, I have to admit it was done better there than at Centre Mall.

[RaginRonic]

It's not going to be a grocery store. It won't have anymore grocery area than the current store. That was part of the developement agreement they have with the city. Originally they wanted to put a Super Centre there, but the neighbours objected and so did the city.

I meant in the context of having grocery options like a deli and bakery, and also selling produce too.

[matt602]

I went down Upper James the other day (I do go 'up there' on occasion - for the u-brew place) and saw the new storefronts. As much as I have a strong distaste for this format, I have to admit it was done better there than at Centre Mall.

Agreed, but I think that's because of how incredibly horrible Centre Mall has become. They seriously could not have botched it any worse.

[mattgrande]

The thing I hate most about these places is driving/walking past, you see the backs of all these buildings. No entrances, no lights, just giant walls with a logo on them. Sometimes they've even made the garbage area street-facing. It just doesn't look good from the street.

[matt602]

Took some time to check out the Food Pavilion. My expectations were very low and once I walked in, they actually lowered even further. There is 4 existing vendors inside (Subway, A&W, an asian place and a greek place) and space for 2 more. That's it. 6 spaces. The place is basically taller than it is large, creating a sort of fake atrium effect. Although the finish seems fancy, the place gave me a very sterile and generic feeling. It's basically one wide open room that isn't even that large.

Of course to even get to the Food Pavilion you need to walk in about 5 minutes from Barton Street across multiple parking spots and drive thru lanes. If you're coming from Barton, you actually have to hop over the A&W drive thru lane which skirts the West and South side of the building. Couldn't be more car oriented.

[LikeHamilton]

Took some time to check out the Food Pavilion. My expectations were very low and once I walked in, they actually lowered even further. There is 4 existing vendors inside (Subway, A&W, an asian place and a greek place) and space for 2 more. That's it. 6 spaces. The place is basically taller than it is large, creating a sort of fake atrium effect. Although the finish seems fancy, the place gave me a very sterile and generic feeling. It's basically one wide open room that isn't even that large.

Of course to even get to the Food Pavilion you need to walk in about 5 minutes from Barton Street across multiple parking spots and drive thru lanes. If you're coming from Barton, you actually have to hop over the A&W drive thru lane which skirts the West and South side of the building. Couldn't be more car oriented.

Barton Street ? Mountaian Plaza?

[matt602]

Yah, sorry about that. Since Centre Mall was referenced in here, I blindly thought this was the Centre Mall thread. If my post could be moved to the Centre Mall thread, please do.

[FRM]

Not like there is much difference in the way both of these developments look lol

[RaginRonic]

I was looking at the new Walmart last night, and saw the signs up on the building reading 'Walmart Supercentre'.

[matt602]

Would the size of the building agree with that? Generally those supercentres are like little cities. The new one in Burlington at the GO station is absolutely giant.

[markbarbera]

The Walmart Supercentre in Burlington and the new Walmart Supercentre at Mountain Plaza Mall are both around 130,000 square feet. The MPM store will have the same store footprint and format as the Burlington store.

[bigguy1231]

Would the size of the building agree with that? Generally those supercentres are like little cities. The new one in Burlington at the GO station is absolutely giant.

The ones in Ancaster and Waterdown are even bigger. The MPM one which I can see from my home doesn't even come close to the size of any of those 3 or at least it doesn't seem to be. I know the original plan was for a supercentre but I thought it was scaled back to appease the neighbours.

[BCTed]

The Walmart Supercentre in Burlington and the new Walmart Supercentre at Mountain Plaza Mall are both around 130,000 square feet. The MPM store will have the same store footprint and format as the Burlington store.

As far as I know, the Mountain store will not have a full grocery store (no produce, meat, et cetera), while the Burlington store does have that.

[bigguy1231]

As far as I know, the Mountain store will not have a full grocery store (no produce, meat, et cetera), while the Burlington store does have that.

It does say SuperCentre on the sign, I just passed by and noticed it. I was surprised to see that. I know there were a number of changes to the original plan because of objections by the neighbours. They weren't supposed to have a full grocery section. It will be interesting to see what they have when they open next week.

[RaginRonic]

It does say SuperCentre on the sign, I just passed by and noticed it. I was surprised to see that. I know there were a number of changes to the original plan because of objections by the neighbours. They weren't supposed to have a full grocery section. It will be interesting to see what they have when they open next week.

I went to the front of the new store about 2 weeks ago, and chatted up one of the employees who works there, and she told me that they did get in a deli, produce, and bakery section into that store.

[flar]

Even the non supercentres have a lot of groceries now.

[fastcarsfreedom]

If it says "Supercentre" on the sign then it will have fully bakery, deli, meat, etc. WMT has various "formats" for the Supercentre concept--it could be that they simply went to something smaller in terms of square footage but kept the full assortment of products. Truth be told, WMT isnt really building much in the way of "traditional" Walmarts anymore in the U.S. or Canada--they build Supercentres almost exclusively now--my guess is that had they been unable to build a Supercenter on the MPM site, they wouldve moved elsewhere.

[bigguy1231]

If it says "Supercentre" on the sign then it will have fully bakery, deli, meat, etc. WMT has various "formats" for the Supercentre concept--it could be that they simply went to something smaller in terms of square footage but kept the full assortment of products. Truth be told, WMT isnt really building much in the way of "traditional" Walmarts anymore in the U.S. or Canada--they build Supercentres almost exclusively now--my guess is that had they been unable to build a Supercenter on the MPM site, they wouldve moved elsewhere.

No they still would have built there.

An old buddy of mine is an executive with Walmart Canada and he told me a few years ago that the MPM location is one of the top three grossing stores in the country. There is no other location big enough or close enough to replace this one. Urban locations for a Supercentre are few and far between in this city.

[RaginRonic]

I went back to that new store site tonight, and I peered into a slightly exposed crack in the store's front entry, and saw some shelves for produce items in there.

[mishap]

You know, the new store doesn't really offer that much more total space than the old one, but it greatly increases the sales area. I've heard that the former Woolco location has a basement about the same size as the gound floor. That would make sense, as I know that's the case at Eastgate. Basements are bad in the modern retail model. The idea is to have as much product out on the sales floor as possible, and keep storage to a minimum.

[RaginRonic]

I have come into more info about the Walmart Mountain Plaza transition, courtesy a chat with an assistant manager there.

First, about the old store...the present Walmart location is going to be closing it's doors for the final time at 6PM on Thursday night.

Now, about the new store...it will open up for business at 8AM on Friday morning, after an opening ceremony to commemorate the new location.

I also found out that the new store is double the size of the old one, and saw that the McDonald's in that new store will be located just adjacent to the main entrance on the left side of the store.

[bigguy1231]

I have come into more info about the Walmart Mountain Plaza transition, courtesy a chat with an assistant manager there.

First, about the old store...the present Walmart location is going to be closing it's doors for the final time at 6PM on Thursday night.

Now, about the new store...it will open up for business at 8AM on Friday morning, after an opening ceremony to commemorate the new location.

I also found out that the new store is double the size of the old one, and saw that the McDonald's in that new store will be located just adjacent to the main entrance on the left side of the store.

Well that manager is either lying or misinformed as to the size being double that of the old store. The old store is close to 100,000 sf. I know that because I used to do work in the mall for the old owners years ago. If what that manager said was true the new store would be close to 200,000 sf which would make it the largest Wall Mart in the country. The new store which I see everyday isn't much bigger than the old store if it is at all.

Edit: Using Google earth I roughly measured the footprints of the old building and the new building. The old building would be approximately 90,000 sf while the new building is about 110,000 sf. It's not exact, but it is close.

[RaginRonic]

Well that manager is either lying or misinformed as to the size being double that of the old store. The old store is close to 100,000 sf. I know that because I used to do work in the mall for the old owners years ago. If what that manager said was true the new store would be close to 200,000 sf which would make it the largest Wall Mart in the country. The new store which I see everyday isn't much bigger than the old store if it is at all.

Well, sometimes, perception can be decieving to the naked eye....with that space the new store is on, it's longer left to right and is a deeper store going back to that fence that is going up around the rear perimeter of that property.

Though I think that you were betting the loading bay for the store would be closer to the road on U. James St. than where it sits...the same thought happened to me when I had my head churning about it.

But, you know, what the hell...a Supercentre fit on that area of land anyway, and The Final Countdown to both Thursday night and Friday morning is on. (And yes, I dropped a really cool song title there XD.)

Oh...in this article here --> http://www.hamiltonmountainnews.com/news/article/219452 , there are conflicting paragraphs here that read as follows...

1. 'Members of the informal group, which has for years been meeting at Zak's Cafe and Deli inside the Mountain Plaza Mall, aren't sure what will happen when their favourite meeting spot is closed and the last section of the old mall is torn down in the new year.'

2. 'A few days later, that section of the mall is scheduled to meet the wrecking ball, part of the ongoing reconstruction of the mall into a big box centre.'

Now, I'm just wondering, is SmartCentres actually going to demolish ALL of the Mountain Plaza building instead of keeping a portion of it?

[mishap]

First, about the old store...the present Walmart location is going to be closing it's doors for the final time at 6PM on Thursday night.
Your source was off. I stopped by at 5:30, and they were already closed. Not sure what time they actually shut it down. What's interesting is that there was not a single sign up listing their closing time for Thursday, even though they still had early closing signs up for the pharmacy. So maybe 6:00 was the original plan, and they decided to wrap things up early. Of course, you then have to hide the signs...

Oh well, one day isn't a huge deal. Better than a certain toy retailer on Upper Wentworth that shuts down five minutes early every day.

[RaginRonic]

Your source was off. I stopped by at 5:30, and they were already closed. Not sure what time they actually shut it down. What's interesting is that there was not a single sign up listing their closing time for Thursday, even though they still had early closing signs up for the pharmacy. So maybe 6:00 was the original plan, and they decided to wrap things up early. Of course, you then have to hide the signs...

Oh well, one day isn't a huge deal. Better than a certain toy retailer on Upper Wentworth that shuts down five minutes early every day.

Well, with the new store open, I have to say that it is HUGE inside there...I knew it would be bigger anyway, but holy crap! O.o

And yeah....that store was crazy on it's 1st day open. o.o

[bigguy1231]

Here's an article about the new WalMart.
http://www.hamiltonmountainnews.com/news/article/219946

It says the new store is 99,000 sf, about 10,000 sf bigger than the old store. I knew they had downsized from the original proposal. Just couldn't find anything written about it.

[markbarbera]

...and it has the Supercentre's full line of groceries, including deli, meats and fresh produce.

It is also seriously understaffed.

[jeremy]

Understaffed and under-shopping carted. They are always out! Same with the old store. It's very annoying especially when I go with my 18-month old daughter.

And while I'm complaining, whats with the signs stating "Mothers Parking"? Can I not park there when I have my daughter?

[bigguy1231]

Understaffed and under-shopping carted. They are always out! Same with the old store. It's very annoying especially when I go with my 18-month old daughter.

And while I'm complaining, whats with the signs stating "Mothers Parking"? Can I not park there when I have my daughter?

The old store had less than 50 carts before they closed. Over 200 were stolen over the years. I am sure they have a full compliment at the new store. It's just that the place is packed all the time. The new carts also have devices attached to them that prevent them from being removed from the parking lot. The electronic device locks up the wheels if you go beyond a certain point.

As for the staffing all Walmarts in this country are understaffed compared to the ones in the US.

[BCTed]

Understaffed and under-shopping carted. They are always out! Same with the old store. It's very annoying especially when I go with my 18-month old daughter.

And while I'm complaining, whats with the signs stating "Mothers Parking"? Can I not park there when I have my daughter?

Probably for cars that have expectant mothers in them.

[jeremy]

There's a picture of a mother with a stroller, and those spots are usually for expectant mothers or parents with a young child.

But, thats just a minor annoyance of mine.

What really bothers me about the knew Mountain Plaza is how it is so inaccessible if you're walking (which you're now forced to do). You take your life into your hands crossing from the Shoppers to CIBC. And there's no sidewalk or ramps. I emailed SmartCentres and they said a sidewalk wasn't part of their plan (duh!) and they would look into it after receiving numerous complaints.

[matt602]

Really not surprising considering the suburban format that the development follows. It and The Centre are absolute hell if you need to get around on foot. When you're building box stores with a sea of parking, it's pretty impossible to cater to the pedestrian.

[NortheastWind]

Hamilton’s Mountain Plaza Proposing Two Mid-Rise Residential Buildings (https://www.thepublicrecord.ca/2018/04/hamiltons-mountain-plaza-proposing-two-mid-rise-residential-buildings/)

Plans can be found here (https://gallery.mailchimp.com/a338b1e664e447ad1f8305134/_compresseds/a08accc5-75bd-448f-9c8c-1e3c68b80431.jpg)

Source: The Public Record

[LRTfan]

not a bad start....although 8-12 stories would be ideal along Fennell. Let's hope we see WAY more of this on all mall and power centre properties in the years to come.

[realcity]

needs to be double the height, across the street is 20ish, and see even today they are contemplating ground level retail. What?

[NortheastWind]

If you look at the drawings the plan calls to realign the Fennel exit/entrance by purchasing the 3 existing houses to the east of the current entrance.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

Now if only someone would buy up all of the houses along upper James and tear them all down and put in some proper residential/commercial mixed use buildings in their place

[King&James]

Now if only someone would buy up all of the houses along upper James and tear them all down and put in some proper residential/commercial mixed use buildings in their place


That would be a massive redevelopment project, so many crappy converted houses.

[RaginRonic]

From the look of those plans, it looks like they want to demolish the rest of the remaining original building.

If I had've had a say in that, I'dve used the space beside the LCBO for 5 more stores(Ardene, Dollarama, GNC, Payless, and Subway), and seen if there was space for a drive-thru Tims.

To me, it does look like the major national retailers will be coming out of the original building, while all the local businesses will have to relocate elsewhere or just simply close their doors.

=P

[movingtohamilton]

... and seen if there was space for a drive-thru Tims. ...

Do we really need another drive-thru? Can't we get a little more progressive in Hamilton? There are so many in this city as it is.

[realcity]

From the look of those plans, it looks like they want to demolish the rest of the remaining original building.

If I had've had a say in that, I'dve used the space beside the LCBO for 5 more stores(Ardene, Dollarama, GNC, Payless, and Subway), and seen if there was space for a drive-thru Tims.

To me, it does look like the major national retailers will be coming out of the original building, while all the local businesses will have to relocate elsewhere or just simply close their doors.

=P

This sucks. I liked that mall. I was okay with a portion still standing. But this is so ten years ago in the US regional malls. They're making urban street walls and pedestrian only with tons of mixed use calling them Lifestyle Centres. This is nothing.

[Sehnsucht]

This sucks. I liked that mall. I was okay with a portion still standing. But this is so ten years ago in the US regional malls. They're making urban street walls and pedestrian only with tons of mixed use calling them Lifestyle Centres. This is nothing.

Agreed. The design of that 'smart centre' is absurd. Cut off from the street entirely but emulating a real street wall still as though they have no clue about basic urban planning principles.

The worst is the ocean of parking in the centre and just how thoughtless these developers are. Walking into the LCBO is a daredevil exercise. Blow it up and start over. Have a real plan instead of just dropping boxes randomly.

[ccheck7]

New FC: FC-23-083

651 Upper James Street

To develop one, 15-storey multiple dwelling with 224 residential units; three, 20-storey mixed-use multiple dwellings with 606 residential units; 3 single storey commercial units and an expansion to the existing Walmart.