Centre Mall -> The Centre on Barton

[MsMe]

Well it's the consumers are going to be paying for these new buildings in the longrun. I do most of my shopping at Price Chopper.

[MsMe]

I found the flyer online.

http://www.metro.ca/en/circulaire.html

[MsMe]

If you want to see outrageous prices. This is in Sanikiluaq Nunavut, which is on one of the islands in Hudson's Bay. I couldn't imagine paying about $40 for a case of 24 pepsi with taxes.

http://www.najuqsivik.com/costs.html

[markbarbera]

I think you'll find Metro's price point to be comparable to current prices at Fortino's, A&P or The Barn.

I like the concept. And I hope they keep Air Miles - I'm an Air Miles addict!

[markbarbera]

What credit rating do you need to achieve to become an archmage? This is my goal in life.

LOL

[markbarbera]

a Metro?? wow...that's not good news at all.


How so?

[markbarbera]

That's too bad. I was really hoping for a Superstore.

I don't think that part of the land (CTC, Beer Store) is a part of the new development?

The article said Redcliffe was finalizing the purchase details for that chunk of property. I was wondering what they will build on the old CTC site once the purchase is finalized. The article mentioned plans that would require council approval, which to me means a variance on zoning for whatever they plan to build there.

[MsMe]

I just looked at the flyer and prices aren't as bad as I thought they would be.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Either a change in strategy by Loblaws or Metro or both. Superstore would've been a far more attractive tenant for the site--oh well. As for Metro, there will be absolutely no changes to the A&P/Dominion/Barn/Ultra/Loeb locations in Ontario with the exception of signage, nametags and bags. The product mix and price points have already been integrated with the rest of Metro...the banner change is actually the final piece of the puzzle in the switch-over.

[markbarbera]

Loblaw's current cash flow situation may have limited its negotiating power here. And all their expansion plans have been delayed as a genral result to theat cash flow issue. Metro always had the upper hand on negotiating a spot here seeing as they owned the land The Barn sits on in the middle of the redevelopment.

The Metro store is sure to be its new flagship format. At 100,000 square feet, it will be double the size and product line of their current grocery store at the Centre.

[DC83]

The article said Redcliffe was finalizing the purchase details for that chunk of property. I was wondering what they will build on the old CTC site once the purchase is finalized. The article mentioned plans that would require council approval, which to me means a variance on zoning for whatever they plan to build there.

Hmmm... well that's interesting! Residential?

[hammergirl]

According to my friend, they have started tearing down the Sears store. She wants to go help LOL.

A friend in Yellowknife paid $8 for 4 rolls of toilet paper.

[DC83]

^^ KFC's Toonie Tuesday Deal is actually $15 in Nunavut! hahaha

[MsMe]

^^ KFC's Toonie Tuesday Deal is actually $15 in Nunavut! hahaha

Put a high price tag on just about anything in this part of Canada. And they have the worst unemployment rate in all of Canada as well. Makes you wonder how they can live there with those conditions.

[DC83]

^^ totally unrelated to Centre Mall, but neat regardless, a photo-tour of Pangnirtung, Nunavut.

This might help one understand how one can 'live' with these conditions:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=154810&highlight=nunavut

[highwater]

Put a high price tag on just about anything in this part of Canada. And they have the worst unemployment rate in all of Canada as well. Makes you wonder how they can live there with those conditions.

Well, the ones who are working get Northern benefits. My sister lives in the 'knife and she makes about 40% more than she would down here for the same job. RE's crazy as well - Toronto prices.

I'm going there for Xmas. Will try to get some pics, although it will be DARK.:(

[DC83]

^^ a buddy of mine actually just transferred from York Uni to Uni of Alaska!? I was like "WTF r u CRAZY!?"
But he's majoring in Enviro Studies, so where better to learn about it than The North? Def way better than Keele & Finch! haha

[MsMe]

So are all the banks going to be the first to open?

I would still like to know what is going into each building they putting on the property. It is only showing what some buildings are and not all are marked. Or possible some aren't rented yet?

[matt602]

TD is opening in November, before anything else on the site. Dunno when the other stores are opening, I'm guessing another one of the banks and Zellers will be 2nd and 3rd.

[hammergirl]

TD is opening in November, before anything else on the site. Dunno when the other stores are opening, I'm guessing another one of the banks and Zellers will be 2nd and 3rd.

My friend told me when Zellers was going to open...sometime in late November or early December. They've started the pre-move clearance sale.


on the Yellowknife topic, make sure to check out the ice road while you're up there.

[LikeHamilton]

My friend told me when Zellers was going to open...sometime in late November or early December. They've started the pre-move clearance sale.


on the Yellowknife topic, make sure to check out the ice road while you're up there.

I believe the original opening date posted was December 4th.

They have started on the demo of the Sears store.

[waughste3]

It won't be a mall after its rebuilt, so they'll have to change the name from Centre Mall to Centre ___________. Any suggestions?

It may not even have the word Centre in it.

[omro]

Park 'n' Shop?

[raisethehammer]

Cars Only Centre

[waughste3]

That's too bad. I was really hoping for a Superstore.

I don't think that part of the land (CTC, Beer Store) is a part of the new development?

Maybe a superstore (hopefully not Walmart) will come in due time, as long as it is something new that the city doesn't have. I would love to see a Real Canadian Superstore come to Hamilton.

[highwater]

Maybe a superstore (hopefully not Walmart) will come in due time, as long as it is something new that the city doesn't have. I would love to see a Real Canadian Superstore come to Hamilton.

Careful. I suggested that once. Got crapped on.

[FairHamilton]

Careful. I suggested that once. Got crapped on.

lol. And who here hasn't been crapped on?

The one at Eglinton & DVP was a really nice store, apart from the narrow aisles and the continual supply/stock issues.

[Millstone]

Maybe a superstore (hopefully not Walmart) will come in due time, as long as it is something new that the city doesn't have. I would love to see a Real Canadian Superstore come to Hamilton.

There's one at Casablanca & QEW, I think that's good enough

[matt602]

Ah that poor Sears store.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/UE/sears-1.jpg
(mall entrance looking South towards the old furniture department, I think)

Also the small stub of the mall towards the Sears entrance is now abandoned including the Carlton Card's and old Music World.

[MsMe]

I wonder if they will have a santa booth if so maybe be putting it into Zellers?

[Wader74]

Ah that poor Sears store.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/UE/sears-1.jpg
(mall entrance looking South towards the old furniture department, I think)

Also the small stub of the mall towards the Sears entrance is now abandoned including the Carlton Card's and old Music World.
Yep, That is too bad for Sears, it was a big store. That pic is good, how did you get it.

I have been watching that development for a while and they are moving pretty fast.

I heard that the mall is slated for demolition in the new year!

[matt602]

The demolition of Sears is scheduled to be complete by the end of this month, I would assume the mall will be gone by December or January at the latest. I guess they're just waiting for the banks along Barton to be finished, so the banks that remain in the mall can get moved.

In many ways, the mall is already gone anyway.

Also, the new Zellers should be done by the end of this month or middle of next. Looks like they're just working on interior things now.

[BCTed]

The demolition of Sears is scheduled to be complete by the end of this month, I would assume the mall will be gone by December or January at the latest. I guess they're just waiting for the banks along Barton to be finished, so the banks that remain in the mall can get moved.

In many ways, the mall is already gone anyway.

Also, the new Zellers should be done by the end of this month or middle of next. Looks like they're just working on interior things now.

RIP, Centre Mall.

[LikeHamilton]

Sears Demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSWaGhf_AGQ

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOlcDlyQY54

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1896/img5408mi0.jpg

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3994/img5407hb5.jpg

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8229/img5405bd8.jpg

[matt602]

Wow, I see that they took a lot more down today. Looks like it might be gone by the end of the week.

[MsMe]

I heard it's going to be another 2 years before the whole complex will be completed.

[hammergirl]

And so goes what, till last month, had been the oldest operating Sears store in Canada.

My friend who used to work there was a bit sad, especially when she saw her former office area exposed like that but she was over it fairly quick and wanted to get a sledge hammer and help them tear it down. The store was in really bad shape. The famous turquoise escalators would break down almost monthly.

[LikeHamilton]

Update 18 October 2008

This is either the new LCBO or Shoppers?
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9902/img5394ak6.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2796/img5397yz5.jpg

New RBC. To open in February 2009.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3719/img5395vn9.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9863/img5420fu3.jpg

New Desjardins Credit Union. To open February 2009

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3854/img5423lv4.jpg

New CIBC. To Open March 14, 2009

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/268/img5400je6.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/2635/img5413ec0.jpg

The mall will be open until the last bank is out.

TD Canada Trust. To Open November 2, 2008
Scotia Bank. To open March 2009

New Zellers store

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/9772/img5411xw6.jpg

Other new buildings

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5692/img5396nk8.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/188/img5398ra2.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7223/img5399gg0.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/933/img5414iu7.jpg

Inside the mall.

5 stores
5 Banks
Zellers
Shopper Drug Mart

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/2097/img5418zp2.jpg

I was talking to the staff at the Barn, Centre Mall and they said they are going to the new grocery store. They expect to be in it by next summer. They said that the Loblaw Group passed on the site, as they are not doing well financially. The new store will be a Metro.

[SteelTown]

A two storey RBC bank, interesting.

[hammergirl]

A two storey RBC bank, interesting.

The plans for the interior of the new RBC are on display in the current branch. It's been awhile since I've looked at it but I seem to recall the teller's were in a curved arrangement. The upstairs was all offices.

[raisethehammer]

ugh, so gross.
How did that skyscraper RBC get approved in this project??

[bornagainbiking]

Sure looks like they are moving right along. I heard the Zellers will be open before Christmas and the final sale signs are up on tht old store. The TD looks like anyday now. Many of the structures are up so it is inside work for the winter.
I know some people are not crazy about the whole idea but I live in East Hamilton and with this, the Red Hill and the new store in Upper Stoney creek I can stay in the East end.
I have not been in Limeridge in two years and less trips to the Meadow lands.
As for the remarks about walking or public transit to shop NOT. To reduce my carbon imprint I minimize my trips and go out once with a list and multiple stops. Down to about once a week.
Get real most people drive to shop (ie Limeridge) and like the security of locking items in their car. Also how many trips on the bus would it take to pick up groceries for a family of four for a week?
I still beleive if I had the time to live a Europeon life style and walk to the village baker in the morning to get my fresh bread but we are a long way from that life trend. Too bad, bring back the local butcher the baker and small grocers.

[comadriver]

Anyone have an inside scoop on hiring by the banks moving in?

[SteelTown]

I'm assuming Royal Bank will hire more people since the bank is doubled the size (another floor for a 2nd floor). The rest probably aren't hiring just relocating their employees to the new buildings.

[hammergirl]

The TD Bank had a sign up awhile ago about hiring for the new location.

[markbarbera]

The new Zellers at Centre Mall is scheduled to open the week of December 8.

[markbarbera]

Redcliffe has updated the site map of the Centre Mall now. It has labelled some of the buildings with the names of their tenants. This faar the named tenants all appear to be businesses present in the old mall, with a couple exceptions.

Here's a list of the shops that I could make out:

Canadian Tire
Penningtons (new)
Bonnie Togs (new)
Tip Top
Mr. Big and Tall
TD Canada Trust
Hollywood Salon
Sally Beauty
CIBC
Scotiabank
Payless Shoe Source
Centre Mall Dental
Haircrafters
EB Games
Optical Factory
Peoples Jewellers
Rogers
Dollarama
Boston Pizza (new)
Tim Horton's
Easy Home
Bell World
The Source
Desjardin Credit Union
Zellers
Shoppers Drug Mart
Royal Bank
LCBO (new)
Metro
Brewers Retail

[matt602]

So, the JS People's location isn't a relocation. Makes it even better :)

Also, LCBO should be marked as new, no? Makes me wonder if that will be expansion or if the stadium mall location down the road at Gage will close.

[markbarbera]

Updated the list to mark LCBO as new.

Centre Mall redevelopment ws a catalyst of the JS Peoples. They were sourcing an alternative location, ended up with two.

[bornagainbiking]

With the big new one @ Eastgate and if one @ Centre Mall will the Queenston Traffic Circle one close too.
With this mix I can see the one stop shop so it cuts down my trips out. The Real Canadian week-end excursion: Canadian Tire, Groceries, Beer store, propane and BBQ supplies.

[FairHamilton]

Redcliffe has updated the site map of the Centre Mall now. It has labelled some of the buildings with the names of their tenants. This faar the named tenants all appear to be businesses present in the old mall, with a couple exceptions.

Here's a list of the shops that I could make out:

Canadian Tire
Penningtons (new)
Bonnie Togs (new)
Tip Top
Mr. Big and Tall
TD Canada Trust
Hollywood Salon
Sally Beauty
CIBC
Scotiabank
Payless Shoe Source
Centre Mall Dental
Haircrafters
EB Games
Optical Factory
Peoples Jewellers
Rogers
Dollarama
Boston Pizza (new)
Tim Horton's
Easy Home
Bell World
The Source
Desjardin Credit Union
Zellers
Shoppers Drug Mart
Royal Bank
LCBO (new)
Metro
Brewers Retail

Pretty much the usual suspects for this type of development. Along Barton the development looks horrible, I know why they've done it like they have but it still looks horrible.

Hopefully the true measure of the developments success will be a rejuvenation of the street wall stores along close by parts of Barton and Kenilworth.

[SteelTown]

You'll notice they spilt up the large suppose to be Superstore building into two sections now.

[MsMe]

You'll notice they spilt up the large suppose to be Superstore building into two sections now.

I assume on the left side will be the Metro? And I wonder what is going on the right side. Still lots not named though. I was surprised that Tim Hortons wasn't going in the food court building. If you look closely at the map the area furthest north looks like an alcove on the food court building which I thought was going to be the drive thru area for Tims. Maybe that alcove will be a covered outdoor eating area? I haven't been past the mall in quite a while so no idea what is happening right now.

[SteelTown]

Yea the left side has to be the Metro since it has a loading dock for the trucks.

[BCTed]

Wow, Boston Pizza is expanding very aggressively.

[raisethehammer]

how can they call this a 'destination shopping' development???
those stores are in every big box complex from here to timbuktoo.

[BrianE]

With the big new one @ Eastgate and if one @ Centre Mall will the Queenston Traffic Circle one close too.
With this mix I can see the one stop shop so it cuts down my trips out. The Real Canadian week-end excursion: Canadian Tire, Groceries, Beer store, propane and BBQ supplies.

The queenston traffic circle LCBO is closed. Has been for some time now. I hope they do close the one at Gage and Barton, it's way too small.

how can they call this a 'destination shopping' development???
those stores are in every big box complex from here to timbuktoo.

Well i'll most likely be doing my Sunday shopping at the new Centre Mall when it opens so i guess you could say this will be my Sunday morning "destination".:shrug:

[markbarbera]

The queenston traffic circle LCBO is closed. Has been for some time now. I hope they do close the one at Gage and Barton, it's way too small.


LCBO at Queenston traffic circle is still open. Was there today. It is not a very well lit and signed location, and does appear closed from the street.

[markbarbera]

how can they call this a 'destination shopping' development???
those stores are in every big box complex from here to timbuktoo.

The retail term 'destination shopping' doesn't mean there is something there that is unique from other shopping centres. It means there is enough range of shopping offerings there that all a customer's shopping needs can be met at that site without having to travel elsewhere (i.e. one stop shopping).

[markbarbera]

Wow, Boston Pizza is expanding very aggressively.

Perhaps too aggressively. Many an upstart chain has come crashing down because of an overly rapid expansion.

[BCTed]

Perhaps too aggressively. Many an upstart chain has come crashing down because of an overly rapid expansion.

Yup, there is already one on Upper Centennial, there is going to be one on Queenston near Nash, and it seems that there will also be one at the Centre Mall. That seems like a lot of Boston Pizza.

BP is also expanding all over the place outside of Hamilton.

[raisethehammer]

Perhaps too aggressively. Many an upstart chain has come crashing down because of an overly rapid expansion.

I need to figure out how to pull off a stunt like that.
Sell garbage food at an insane price and somehow people go!! Geez. Talk about easy money.

[raisethehammer]

Yup, there is already one on Upper Centennial, there is going to be one on Queenston near Nash, and it seems that there will also be one at the Centre Mall. That seems like a lot of Boston Pizza.

BP is also expanding all over the place outside of Hamilton.

According to the dude in Dragon's Den who owns them, he's down into Texas now too.

I looked at the website and there is a TON of small retail spaces not accounted for yet. Are they really going to fill them all??
Although not my cup of tea, I could see a Starbucks or Second Cup doing well here considering there's none anywhere nearby. Again, the Boston Pizza model at work - overpriced crap. But hey, it works.

[FairHamilton]

According to the dude in Dragon's Den who owns them, he's down into Texas now too.

Actually, the individual locations will be franchises, he is a owner of the corporation. What a deal, rapid expansion with minimal risk, and taking a cut for just providing a name, and a system.

[highwater]

Wouldn't it have been amazing if they had done something like this at Centre Mall.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/business/homepage/20081116_A_new__town__grows_in_Voorhees.html

[raisethehammer]

stop teasing us. we're in Hamilton. we get crap.

[MsMe]

Like in Dundas is a building like that. it has the stores on main floor and condos/apts up.

[bornagainbiking]

There is so much run down area around Centre Mall to put up condos. With Centre mall and all the essentials and 15 min bus service. It is almost like an express bus from Parkdale and return. Gut half the businesses and along the street and upscale the upper floors. Too bad we don't relocate the express Go service from Barton and Nash to Centre to Burlington (Toronto). Use Centre Mall as the GO start hub. That would bring in the occupants.

[flar]

I was in Oakville the other day, this is the type of thing they are building there:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/oakville_1/00303.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/oakville_1/00311.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/oakville_1/00232.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/oakville_1/00304.jpg

More downtown Oakville: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=160960

(also check out part II, Oakville's older neighbourhoods might surprise: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=160959)

[raisethehammer]

that would have been great for Centre Mall. Even though it looks fake and sterile, it's miles better than big box crap surrounding by thousands of parking spaces.

[MsMe]

Those are really nice Flar :)

[matt602]

I think that kind of stuff works best when mixed in with older mixed use buildings. The older buildings kinda kill the sterile look of the newer ones a bit and make things blend into a nice streetwall. In Oakville's case, it's all too neat and tidy. No large trees, no canopy's, no ornate cornice's. It's all very conservative.

Even still, light years ahead of any big box development, and definitely a step in the right direction as far as urban development is concerned.

[SteelTown]

Centre Mall: Hamilton landmark gives up the ghost

November 19, 2008
Paul Wilson

Executives at the Morgan’s department store chain said it was “a once in a lifetime chance.”

They just had to be part of Canada’s largest retail complex, the Greater Hamilton Shopping Centre — better known as Centre Mall.

At a press conference in 1955, Morgan’s said it would build a store here. It would be their largest branch, a stylish place with chandeliers, fieldstone accents, 3-D murals.

The historic Morgan’s name didn’t last long after that. But the two-storey 140,000-square-foot building the chain erected still stands.

Not for much longer, though. It is a Zellers now and is soon coming down.
If you’re old enough to have fond memories of those Morgan days, or even the Bay days that followed, hold onto them. Don’t go back. There’s no lustre left.

Henry Morgan set up shop in Montreal in 1845. It was not until a century later that the family ventured into branch stores. It opened four in Montreal, then expanded to three cities outside Quebec — Toronto, Ottawa and Hamilton.

Morgan’s said the store here would employ 500 and be done up smartly, with touches such as pink and green terracotta trim, in what the company called “the Morgan manner.”

The store opened May 14, 1957, the Union Jack flying from the rooftop.
Just three years later the Hudson’s Bay Company bought Morgan’s, and the name came down right away on the stores in Ontario. In Quebec, they left the Morgan’s badge in place for another dozen years, before the switch to la Baie. Under that name, the huge Morgan’s flagship store still looms large on Montreal’s main drag.

The Centre Mall Bay store eventually became Robinson’s. Then, when that chain was put to sleep in 1992, the store went down-market, to the Zellers brand.

The story of what happened to the shopping miracle that was Centre Mall is well-known by now.

The mall was once surrounded for miles by families where the breadwinner was bringing home a good factory cheque every week. But those companies died or moved away and the mall declined.

It changed hands five years ago, and the new owners eventually decided the way to the future was to blow up Centre Mall and turn it into a sea of big boxes.

They’re rising now, amid the mud that was the parking lot. They rudely back onto Barton, which does little for the streetscape.

At the east end of the mall, dump trucks and big shovels clear the final debris of what was the largest Sears store in the land. It moved over to Eastgate Mall a few months ago, in a space that became available when the Bay decided it didn’t need to be in Hamilton’s lower city anymore.

The concourse of Centre Mall is a dim and eerie place now. Just a handful of businesses left, the ones waiting for space in the stand-alone structures under construction.

The man at the Rogers booth hopes the move comes soon. Sales this month are way down. At the banks, not a customer in sight. Seniors, the ones who visit a teller most, can’t be happy about the changes.

The big gold letters are still up at Peoples Jewellers. “Visit us at our new store in Jackson Square,” the sign reads. Ironic, because the birth of this mall was all about using free parking to divert shopping dollars from downtown.

The only place where the lights still shine bright is at Zellers. They’ve brought in truckloads of clearance merchandise, from aisles and aisles of cheap shoes to Easter ware galore — bunnies, baskets, eggs, grass. Meanwhile, on the sound system, it’s Joy to the World.

Everything goes, every shelf, every case, every perfect figure. You can take home an attractive mannequin with a steady gaze for $350. Or a two-stall, twin-turreted kid’s castle change room for $300.

There have been nostalgic buyers for the booths and chairs in the restaurant upstairs. That salmon-coloured Naugahyde must go nearly back to the Morgan days.

It’s too late for a final plate of fries. The restaurant closed Saturday. Though still subject to change, the store is set to shut down Dec. 3 and open the next day in a new one-floor-with-groceries Zellers directly behind it.

And that really will be old Centre Mall’s last gasp.

[raisethehammer]

really is sad.
Especially what they're replacing it with.
You can be sure that nobody on council and very few people in the public will hold these guys to the fire over their comments about 'pedestrian friendly streetwall on Barton' etc...
They flat out lied and as usual, council doesn't care enough about that part of town (or is too clueless) to do anything about it.
This project will be a colossal mess. thousands of cars mixing with pedestrians. everyone involved should be ashamed.

[bornagainbiking]

We need to be semi-positive here. So why anti Centre Mall or the design. Their money, their design. If you don't like it, start a Co-Op and build your own. At least they are not in the Meadowlands. Be thankful for small mercies.
uof cars, Yes with dollars to spend in Hamilton and gas up at local stations. A huge mess is bettert than a ghost town.
ANY new development along Barton Street is an improvement. The new (sorta like the Oakville pictures) buildings on Barton near Wentworth are nice.
But the majority of Barton. Ouch
I drive (yes drive) down Barton on a very regular basis and I welcome the new Centre Mall. As I drive West after Ottawa Street it is very depressing. There are run down, boarded up old solid buildings, but in the late evening and early morning the local seedy creatures crawl out from under their rocks or off the sidewalks along Ferguson Street. Lottridge.
So it has to start somewhere and Barton is a long street with many separate areas that are emerging. Near James North, Corner of Ferguson (Plaza and Mark Preece house).
If you look in a reverse order there are several example of Malls rising up in residential neighbourhoods like the old days but the stores are bigger. The Home Depot and friends in upper Stoney Creek in the old Satelite City. Rec Centre, Library, trails, rink. The same for Milton off Steele near James Snow. So you can sent the kids to the store for a 2X4 and a box of nails. hahaha...
And a large double double and not using a drive thru.
So if the Centre Mall was to grow, then the Apt bldgs and condos, there is a regular bus to downtown. As this could be the anchor then ccyour vision of shoppes along Ottawa and Kenilworth for the new locals.
The only real item missing is a smal to mid-size Home hardware to fill in where Canadian Tire lacks.
Can you just imagine the boom to this area if a Go-transit stop or Via stop was added or incorporated and an area to park like the one set-up at Nash and Barton. Commuters from the mountain (who used to fight down the 403 hill to Aldershot) could pick what they need prior to going home. As the area improve thay may migrate North . Steal some of the business from Limeridge.
I was out to Binbrook and near our Airpot and saw all the NEW houses. This is why all the out in the middle of nowhere business is being built near the 20/56/53 intersection.
So like field of dreams if you build it they will come. Go lower Hamilton...
We have the waterfront, once they do something with it.
I wonder if Greyhound could run a service to Toronto from Centre Mall and East Gate.
I live in East Hamilton and welcome any development as I want to keep my money in my hood. Support my crib. Yo guy.

[BrianE]

The city should have required a street wall along Barton St. How hard is it to turn a building 180 degrees around on paper? The South side of Barton has buildings up to the sidewalk and facing the street; there are probly a few empty spaces, I can't remember how many. They could have done something interesting, a throw back to the way buildings were built in 1900 - 1920. A nod to the era when most of the other buildings in the area were built.

[SteelTown]

Are they going to reuse the arch at Centre Mall? If so I'm guessing at the Food Court building.

If not they should donate it to the City and let them install it somewhere else. Perhaps at Ottawa Street next to the Farmers' Market.

[raisethehammer]

so I drove by and on the site today.
WOW. horrible.
I'm going to go back and count how many back access doors face Barton St. It's got to be several dozens. Nothing but blank walls and little steel doors facing the sidewalk.
Unreal.

On a positive note (not on this site obviously) drive up Kenilworth and keep going past burlington st - check out the unbelievable, wicked building National Steel Car is building on the right hand side, just north of Burlington.
An absolute beauty.
I'd love to see a diner downtown in this style. One of the coolest buildings to be put up in Hamilton in years.

[Jon Dalton]

If it's anything like the new pseudo-street-fronting big box they're building near my work, the windows facing the street will be painted black and the walls will be covered with pipes and electrical meters.

Good times are coming....

[markbarbera]

There is no denying an opportunity was lost to do a mixed use development here. An argument could be made that this neighbourhood couldn't support an intensified mixed use development at this point in time. After all, it would be extremely hard to sell condos or fill commercial office space facing the industrial smokestacks of Dofasco. Having said that, the opportunity for future redevelopment has not been completely eliminated. I take it a tear would not be shed if any of the buildings along Barton were to be demolished for some future redevelopment (not withstanding a movement 20 years from now to preserve the site on the grounds that it is a unique representation of early 21st century big box heritage architecture).

Frankly, Barton Street between Ottawa and Kenilworth was just as, if not, less pedestrian friendly prior to this redevelopment. So, from that point of view, while this stretch is not an improvement over its previous incarnation, it is certainly not worse than when it was nothing more than a wide swath of crumbling parking spaces for a run-down shopping mall.

[raisethehammer]

If it's anything like the new pseudo-street-fronting big box they're building near my work, the windows facing the street will be painted black and the walls will be covered with pipes and electrical meters.

Good times are coming....

there are NO windows. It's blank walls and steel rear doors.

[adam]

I'm going to try to do a good portion of holiday shopping on December 6th at James North Maker's Market.

[raisethehammer]

sounds awesome...i'll be out of town, but wish I could attend.
James North is slowly getting to the point where you can make a day out of it - good food, art, shopping, cafes etc.....

[Jon Dalton]

there are NO windows. It's blank walls and steel rear doors.

You're kidding. No windows along Barton Street?

[raisethehammer]

not that I can see. it literally is the BACK of the box stores. just like they look in the Meadowlands...only facing Barton.

[adam]

So we tore down a mall with useable indoor public space and replaced it with a huge parking lot and stores on the periphery of the parking lot? This doesn't sound like progress to me.

[ryan_mcgreal]

there are NO windows. It's blank walls and steel rear doors.

Any photos available yet?

[markbarbera]

So we tore down a mall with useable indoor public space and replaced it with a huge parking lot and stores on the periphery of the parking lot? This doesn't sound like progress to me.

The parking lot will actually be smaller than when it was an indoor shopping mall. There's also indoor public space in the food court building.

[adam]

How big is the new public indoor space?

[markbarbera]

big enough to seat 350

[markbarbera]

Any photos available yet?

I found this photo posted on Flickr by flickr user Big Daddy 72 (http://flickr.com/photos/14413615@N00/):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/3003497814_4e64feea90.jpg

Interesting to note that the mature trees lining Barton Street were kept intact.

Here's a shot of roughly the same stretch of Barton before construction, but from within the parking lot (Barton Street would be behind the photographer), so the perspective is slightly different (photo also by Big Daddy 72 of flickr)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/204529404_4be37d4325.jpg

Which makes a better streetwall for Barton?

[crhayes]

Which makes a better streetwall for Barton?

Yeah that particular building seems to be very close to the street...I haven't been down there in a while but I know the bank was also fairly close.

I should go down soon and check it out!

[flar]

Well, it's certainly a wall. Along a street.

That doesn't make it a streetwall though. Having buildings built right up to the street is just the first step. The other ingredient is having entrances into the buildings, window displays and other things that create and inviting atmosphere and encourage street activity. This is no more effective in that regard than having a giant fence along Barton.

[crhayes]

Well, it's certainly a wall. Along a street.

That doesn't make it a streetwall though. Having buildings built right up to the street is just the first step. The other ingredient is having entrances into the buildings, window displays and other things that create and inviting atmosphere and encourage street activity. This is no more effective in that regard than having a giant fence along Barton.

Well it looks like there are plenty of entrances, but you are right about the displays....they would have been so easy to add too...

I think the reason the big box stores probably don't have displays like that is people generally go there knowing what they are looking for. Further, people generally know the types of items they sell, so they really don't have a HUGE reason to display their products (however, that doesn't mean they can't do it, and they should do it).

[markbarbera]

The doors along Barton are most likely service entrances. The plans show the public walkways and main entrances for that particular building to be along its north wall.

[MsMe]

Large walls is also an invitation for graffiti artists.

[flar]

All the entrances on Barton will say "Please use door on other side of building". As for windows, big box stores don't want to pay their employees to decorate windows. They're bare bones operations.

[markbarbera]

True, but the tenants of the buildings running along Barton Street are not big box stores per se. The bog box stores are lining the northern border of the property, abutting the CN rail.

[Jon Dalton]

That's a Hamilton Convention Centre style streetwall.

[raisethehammer]

I found this photo posted on Flickr by flickr user Big Daddy 72 (http://flickr.com/photos/14413615@N00/):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/3003497814_4e64feea90.jpg

Interesting to note that the mature trees lining Barton Street were kept intact.

Here's a shot of roughly the same stretch of Barton before construction, but from within the parking lot (Barton Street would be behind the photographer), so the perspective is slightly different (photo also by Big Daddy 72 of flickr)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/204529404_4be37d4325.jpg

Which makes a better streetwall for Barton?


neither. Dofasco has warehouses along ottawa st north. That doesn't mean it's a 'streetwall'.
It's shed along a street.