City Hall | 34m | 8 fl | Complete

[SteelTown]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/e/ea/Hamilton_city_hall.jpg
As you can see City Hall is fenced off to the public.

Hamilton City Hall is currently under a $68 million renovation. All City Hall employees, councillors and Mayor moved to Hamilton City Centre (former Eaton's Centre). Council Chamber relocated to the Hamilton Convention Centre for the next 3 years I believe. City Hall's renovation is scheduled to be completed by 2010 or 2011.

Talks are underway for the forecourt which could include a skating rink and a new cafe attached to City Hall, one councillor wants a special Tim Horton's to link Ron Joyce connection to Hamilton.

Here's what City Hall looked like when it opened November 21, 1960.
http://pages.interlog.com/~urbanism/hamcityhall_b&w.jpg

[SteelTown]

The mayor has left the building
Relocation to City Centre while $68-million renovation of City Hall gets underway

Maurice Cacho
The Hamilton Spectator
(Sep 22, 2007)

You won't find any city councillor or the mayor for that matter, in their office at City Hall.

And it's not because they've all gone on vacation. City staff have relocated to the City Centre building while City Hall is being renovated.

This fall, the inside of City Hall will be "gutted" before construction begins in early 2008. The building was constructed in 1960.

When the $68-million renovation is completed at the end of 2010, City Hall will be a "greener" building.

Gerry Davis, Hamilton's senior director of capital planning and implementation in the public works department, said the city is hoping the building meets the LEED silver standard for environmental conservation.

For now, city council and committee meetings will be held in the Hamilton Convention Centre

[SteelTown]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a382/hammer396/IMG_2364.jpg

Hamilton's temporary City Hall
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a382/hammer396/IMG_2351.jpg

[vid]

My god, it needs one! :D What is it with Canadian cities and funny looking city halls from the 60s? :) Any after renderings?

[raisethehammer]

the after renderings will be almost identical with the before renderings...biggest differences will be in the forecourt with a skating rink, cafe, fountains etc...
and the interior will be way more energy efficient. the falling slabs of marble are being replaced with something more sturdy.
believe it or not, this is actually a really neat building... the artistic features, architecture and different angles from every side complement the interior use of brushed steel, colourful tiles and modern/deco style clocks and accents.
love it or hate it, it's certainly not boring!

[vid]

I didn't say it was boring. :P It has all the charm of awkward post-war futurism. :)

[the dude]

awkward is a good descriptor. my aversion to demolition prevents me from calling on the wrecking ball. it's what we're stuck with so we might as well do what we can with it.

[realcity]

i like it but it should've been 20 floors tall. a mini UN.
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=95597&rendTypeId=4

[SteelTown]

City hall renovations hit a snag

Dec, 20 2007 - 1:00 PM

HAMILTON (AM900 CHML) -The City of Hamilton is looking for a new architect to design the renovations to City Hall.

It has parted ways with the company that was initially given the contract after the two sides reached an impasse.

At issue, are changes that were made to the design team earlier this year, as city politicians reconsidered whether to move ahead with the project.

The city's Gerry Davis says the new consulting team will be selected by March.

He adds that they remain on budget and will work within the project's original schedule.

That includes completing the internal decommissioning of the building next month, with a goal of moving staff back in to City Hall by the end of 2010.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton should scrap city hall renovations: councillors

The Hamilton Spectator
Two municipal politicians think council should scrap plan for a renovated city hall.

Bob Bratina and Terry Whitehead believe the city would save taxpayers' money and help the downtown by cancelling the nearly $70 million renovation project now under way.

They two say the city could stay in its current temporary location at the City Centre (former Eaton Centre), where staff have moved during construction work.

Bratina says council could look at a new city hall when the municipality is doing better and the downtown has been revived.

[SteelTown]

Right adding another abandon building, City Hall, is going to help revive the downtown core. Pure genius.

[vid]

Thunder Bay just approved a $2.6M renovation of our City Hall (just structural stuff, windows and interior redesigns in the lobby and chambers) but already, we, too have the "Let's just abandon the building"/"Let's build a new one!!" arguments flying around. You're not alone. :P

It's kind of funny, back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, cities would spend gross amounts of money on extravagant city halls, but at some point after WWII, we seemed to shun that idea, believing instead that unlike other office workers, municipal employees deserve to work in substandard buildings.

[matt602]

Wow. These are all things that should have been decided before City Hall was even emptied out. This whole thing makes a mockery of our city. Our councilors are working out of a bloody mall. That's fine for a year or two while a better City Hall is being built, but we shouldn't be considering any longer than that. How is Hamilton supposed to look competitive and "reborn" when we don't even HAVE a City Hall?

[raisethehammer]

this city blows.
is there not a provincial or federal law that would allow citizens to bar shut the offices at city hall and overthrow these pinheads?? The provincial government seriously needs to come here and take over for 5 or 6 years and through public input, start turning this city around before this freakshow we call a council ruins whatever is left of our fine city.

[DC83]

^^ Tillsonburg's City Hall is also in it's downtown mall! It (the mall) works tho... unlike ours.

This city is plagued with indecision and procrastination. NO WONDER no one wants to develop in this city!! No one can get their damn heads on straight. Gallagher's Pub is a prime example as to why no one is willing to reno/build downtown: b/c city staff are useless and have no idea what's going on at any point in any day.

Mayor Fred... it's over. Brad Clark for Mayor??? Ughghghgh.

this city blows.
is there not a provincial or federal law that would allow citizens to bar shut the offices at city hall and overthrow these pinheads?? The provincial government seriously needs to come here and take over for 5 or 6 years and through public input, start turning this city around before this freakshow we call a council ruins whatever is left of our fine city.

That's, sadly, a better idea. Stephen Harper for Mayor? At least he is a LEADER!!!

[SteelTown]

I really really hope Marie Bountrogianni decides to run for Mayor.

[vid]

Thunder Bay uses a downtown mall for city hall, in addition to the actual city hall, and 20 other buildings.

City governments are inefficient.

[SteelTown]

Pretty much government offices (city, feds, provincal) in Hamilton is around Jackson Square.

[HAMRetrofit]

Hamilton is really run by pin heads. It is frustrating to stand on the sidelines and watch.

this city blows.
is there not a provincial or federal law that would allow citizens to bar shut the offices at city hall and overthrow these pinheads??

A contemporary sacking of city hall might be called for here in Hamilton's case.

[SteelTown]

Should City Hall Renovations Go Forward?

HAMILTON (AM900 CHML) - There's now talk of putting Hamilton City Hall renovations on hold until further notice.

Councillors Bob Bratina and Terry Whitehead believe that the city should scrap the 68 million dollar project, at least until the municipality is on better economic footing.

Bratina adds that they could also look at finding a buyer for the City Hall property, who might be willing to make a major private-sector investment. He suggests a hotel culd be one possibility.

He also notes that the downtown core, and Jackson Square in particular, are currently enjoying the benefits of having several hundred city staff working in the City Center.

The timing might be perfect for reconsidering whether to push ahead with the renovation project. It is currently on hold as the city looks for a new company to complete the design work.

[raisethehammer]

nothing says 'classy city' more than going into city hall past hair salons with cardboard signs, empty storefronts and the worlds largest concentration of 'discount' stores.
friggin brutal.
plenty of companies would gladly bid in an effort to build us a new city hall...what the heck goes on behind the scenes in this mobster town where we TRY to give our business and money to idiots like the guy running the City Centre??
Are they scared that if we vacate it, he'll turn it into another one of his grow-ops??
brutal.

[the dude]

ok, spill the beans on the dude who owns the city centre. you've obviously heard some pretty interesting stories.

[go_leafs_go02]

so city hall could quickly become just another so-called abandoned building in the downtown core like what's at the corner of John & King, and James & Prince William?

What a joke this city is if that's the case.

Oh, let's gut the city hall now, and then find out we should put the project on hold, leaving it fully inoperable, and likely unsafe to work or use. This city's management sucks then plain and simple. I was starting to like the city, or at least see it in a different light, but just leaving your city hall in the dust for who knows how many years can quickly make Hamilton the laughingstock of Ontario.

[HAMRetrofit]

How about vacating all of downtown Hamilton and razing everything.

This way Hamilton could start from scratch building an ultra 'futuristic' city center like Mississauga. :koko:

Honestly how far are things off from this now?

1. 1 Mall Superblock
2. 1000 hectares of surface parking
3. 0 rapid transit
4. almost free municipal parking

[fastcarsfreedom]

I'm not pleased to hear about this latest bout of dithering. If there is one thing I cannot stand--it's dithering. There are benefits to having municipal workers in Jackson Square--we always knew there would be--it was discussed ad nauseum when the original City Hall reno/demo debate was going on. As difficult as it was to make a decision and stick to it--it was done. City Hall is, after all, a bit of a masterpiece of modernist design, and although I would've supported building new--I was pleased in the end that Roscoe's well designed but poorly built City Hall was to survive. The truth of course is that it was too small before it even opened--and therefore, barring a demolition and rebuild, the bulk of municipal staff will continue to be spread around at various locations--much of it in and around Jackson Square.

That being said, I am saddened mostly by the degree to which Hamilton--as a city, not a government--is hated by people who describe themselves as the city's most ardent defenders. I know there are passionate opinions here--but your posts read as though you are nothing but embarassed by the city, ashamed by something you claim to love. You want the provincial government running your city? You want to completely lose your rights as a voter? You genuinely think the Province is well-run and efficient as a bureaucracy?

A P3 city hall is a definite option--always was--do you sincerely support this concept RTH? You may recall the P3 concept for a Regional Government building (Region Plaza) on the site now housing the Federal Building. Do you remember that private sector partner? Does the name Hi-Rise ring any bells? I can just imagine the tirade on this forum--P3 city hall project with Hi-Rise and LIUNA.

[raisethehammer]

fastcars, I'm an ardent supporter of Hamilton, not a defender for the idiotic, brainless crap that comes out of city hall.
Yes it's embarassing. Talking about having no city hall until "things are better".
what a dumb comment.

A P3 could be done properly here, but you're right - I want nothing to do with Hi-Rise. There are many other builders/developers around who could offer ideas for the back site of city hall.
Remember, Roscoe designed the place with foundations already in place for a new tower south of the current one.
Let's do it.

[SteelTown]

Councillors revive debate about selling City Hall

Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jan 24, 2008)

Two city councillors want to sell off City Hall.

"Get rid of it," downtown Councillor Bob Bratina proclaimed yesterday.

He joined Councillor Terry Whitehead in suggesting the city cancel the $69-million renovation and stay at its temporary location at the City Centre.

"We need to take a serious look at creative ideas to get value for the taxpayer," said Whitehead.

The idea of selling City Hall, which has been debated several times over the decades, drew eye rolls and sighs from several other councillors. But Bratina and Whitehead argue the idea should be revived, given the city's financial outlook. Taxpayers are facing an 8.2 per cent increase this year.

"I think it's a concept worth revisiting," said Whitehead, noting the proposal could be paired with the Lister Block debate.

The suburbs' former town halls are also a target in budget deliberations. Councillor Brad Clark revived the debate yesterday about closing the municipal centres and renting out the space. Staff plan to report back.

The renovation of Hamilton City Hall is on hold while the city looks for a new architect.

Bratina said he fears the project's cost, which recently jumped from $60 million to $68.8 million, will only soar higher. He'd prefer to hand the land over to a university to create a downtown campus and wait to build a new municipal centre when the city is doing better and downtown has recovered.

Whitehead believes the prime land --which staff estimated would be worth about $2 million -- could be leveraged for a downtown development to generate taxes.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he'd want to see substantial council support for the idea before asking staff to develop a business case for the recycled proposal.

"I'm reluctant to get into the debate," he said, noting the renovation was hotly contested just a few months ago. Eisenberger led and lost a fight to tear down the heritage building and build a multipurpose civic centre.

"I'm still worried about the path we are on, but that said, that is the path we're on."

The City Hall renovation debate sprouted from a discussion about the cost of the city's temporary chambers. Council has been holding its meetings at the Convention Centre since the move in the fall. Room rentals and food are expected to cost $107,000 this year. Councillors asked staff to report back on the cost of renting a meeting room in the City Centre mall instead.

[SteelTown]

I don't mind the idea but it's just the way Bratina goes about saying it rubs me off.

We know Public Health department isn't relocating to the Lister Block and LIUNA wants to sell the Lister Block to the City so it's not a bad idea to make the Lister Block City Hall and purchase the building for $20 million instead of spending $68 million on renovation for City Hall. Over time they could add a tower behind the Lister Block for more office space. Plus it could be symbolic meaning old meets new, Hamilton has a lot of historical buildings but entering the new world with new and modern buildings especially LEEDs.

First I would put the City Hall land up for sale to see if any interested buyers, if not than renovate it. If interested buyers I would go with the Lister Block.

[Jon Dalton]

That's funny. Hamilton, the city with no city hall.

I like this place because of the people I know here and the things there are to do. Not the quality of the built environment. There's just enough of it left to make me feel like I live in an urban area.

There are good things happening, but lets not fool ourselves. Our main streets are in shambles, just look at James across from the City Centre, look at King across from Gore Park. This is the main intersection of the city and it's that bad.

We love the city because it's our home and we want the best for it. But we have to be honest with ourselves. It's a piss poor condition we're in and nothing seems to be changing. It's just one step forward, and if we're lucky, only one step back.

"Let's just not have a city hall". That's just thinking like a city on life support, like the whole god damn city is on welfare. I wish they'd thought that way before spending on Red Hill.

[HAMRetrofit]

I can't believe this is even a debate. Hamilton is lucky to have the building it has as city hall. Stop muddling around with this idiocracy and fix it already. Use the mega parking lot behind it to expand in the future. There is no replacement for the historical significance of this building.

To quote Donald Trump, "Renovation costs you half". If an architect or developer is hired that actually knows what they are doing with this type of project there should be great saving and efficiencies.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-28-trump-un_x.htm

[oldcoote]

I like the old City Hall.

But they need to make it more people friendly. A skating rink would be ideal.

[raisethehammer]

I agree...a skating rink, garden area and LRT gliding by out front.
I heard an interview with Warren Green on CHML talking about their grandiose plans for a new city hall proposal 5 years ago.
He makes it sound like the greatest project ever with lush landscaping etc....yea, just like that crap-box on Bay St which was supposed to have a wonderful piazza out front and water feature etc...
these guys are so full of crap and we keep parading them around on the radio.
Of course, it didn't help that Bill Kelly welcomed him to the show by calling him the developer responsible for that "beautiful architecture on Bay St". He wasn't kidding either!

[BrianE]

What is this facination with Skating rinks that I keep seeing? It seems like every other idea for a public space gets the skating rink option thrown in.

Don't get me wrong, its a very romantic idea, but the reality of an outdoor rink in the winter time is more trouble than it's worth. Especially given the climate of Hamilton.

The weather is only cold enough at most 3 months of the year.

If the temperature goes above freezing for any length of time, the ice becomes mushy and un usable.

A day or two of rain will ruin the ice.

If it gets two cold and windy outside people won't use the rink.

In terms of public usage and costs to install and maintain a rink, it's a terrible investment.

Not only that but Council is balking at a $68 Mil bare bones renovation, any extra expenditures are just not going to fly.

[SteelTown]

I rather have a Pioneer Square in Portland than a skating rink.

[matt602]

I'm kinda confused as to why Lister Block is being looked at as a "City Hall". As the deal was before, it was barely big enough to house the Public Health offices, and doing so they needed to pretty much rape the architecture of the arcade level to jam cublicles into it. The only way I could see Lister Block working as a City Hall, is if a tower addition were built beside/behind it. Lister Block could serve almost as an entryway of sorts.

Even still it doesn't sound like a good idea. That project has it's own weird, un-certain direction... lets not put another dumb idea on the table.

[SteelTown]

One way or another the Lister Block is going to need city employees filled as LIUNA wants to sell the building to the City. So I kinda see the point of Whitehead suggesting put employees in the Lister Block and when you have money relocate all the employees from City Centre to the tower behind the Lister Block.

[flar]

I'm with BrianE on the skating rink, it will get too little use for the cost. There must be something better. Other skating rinks don't get used that much. A couple examples:

London's rink around noon on a Friday:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/london/00174.jpg

Mississauga's skating rink around noon on a Saturday:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/mississauga/00228.jpg

[SteelTown]

Instead place a skating rink by the waterfront and place a nice square at City Hall forecourt like Pioneer Square. If there needs to be a skating rink put it at Commonwealth Square, it could use it with the new glass wall at the back of AGH.

[oldcoote]

If you had kids, I think you'd change your mind about a skating rink.

Hamilton is lacking in outdoor winter activities, especially for children. The weather is too unpredictable for natural rinks. We have no ski hill. *(well, we have one, but...) We have great hiking trails, but those become too slick a week after a snowfall.

I realize rinks are expensive, but I guarantee they would draw people downtown, who otherwise wouldn't. Open it the last Friday of school in December, and run it until the end of March break.

This is Canada, after all, so what if its cold! Bundle up and get outside.

[HAMRetrofit]

arhh...looking at Covent Gardens and Mississauga City Hall at the same time make my stomach hurt.

Every city has these skating rinks now a days...Toronto, Mississauga, Kitchener, and London. Hamilton already has a great natural winter rink at Princess Point.

More retail and office enterprise will draw more people downtown. Using the money to help stimulate the downtown economy will draw more people than a rink. Use the money towards a downtown marketing campaign that is not lame.

[go_leafs_go02]

London's rinks (we have 2) plus a large skating loop at Storeybook Gardens are very full during weeknights and weekends.

An noonday picture obviously means nothing to how much the rinks get used. Whenever I see them, there is always alot of people on, and they bring business downtown.

I can't comment on Mississauga. But since I am a Londoner, I must stand up for my outdoor rinks. They are fascinating to skate on and a great evening experience, especially if there is an event going on at the John Labatt Centre.

[LikeHamilton]

When the Standard Life building in Jackson Square opened it had an indoor skating rink. I think it was free or very cheap. It lasted a few years and then they closed it do to lack of interest. Nothing every went in there after it closed.

[raisethehammer]

an outdoor rink downtown in Gore Park, or City Hall would be awesome for families and could hold special events in the winter etc... you go to Montreal or Ottawa in wintertime and there's tons to do. here there's nothing.
Another one is proposed down at Pier 8. here's hoping.

[the dude]

this talk of placing city employees in the lister block is hilarious because the same idea was being bandied about 50 YEARS AGO! those who didn't want to see the old city hall meet the wrecking ball suggested linking the two buildings with an elevated walkway. anyway, i'm just so tired of the topic that i can't offer any pearls of wisdom on this one. just go away, please.

[raisethehammer]

this talk of placing city employees in the lister block is hilarious because the same idea was being bandied about 50 YEARS AGO! those who didn't want to see the old city hall meet the wrecking ball suggested linking the two buildings with an elevated walkway. anyway, i'm just so tired of the topic that i can't offer any pearls of wisdom on this one. just go away, please.


I feel your pain, but we must continue to offer suggestions and constructive criticism.
Once the life has been sapped out of citizens like us, we're left to have guys like Warren Green and LIUNA have a heyday down at city hall with no objections.
Keep up the fight brother! Hamilton is worth it!

[coalminecanary]

I just wrote up a little "suggestion rant" on city hall here:
http://www.hammerboard.ca/viewtopic.php?p=580#580

The bottom line is I think they should stay at city centre FOREVER and make it the city hall. As for what to do about the current city hall, I have to say I'm against tearing it down, but I'm at a loss right now regarding how to use it. THe only thing I can think of is taht McmAster should buy it for a downtown campus and abandon their sad, useless, pathetic idea of plopping down next to the qew in burlington.

[raisethehammer]

if you're against it being torn down then the last group on earth you should want to get it is McMaster.
How about UofT or another GTA university that could expand into Hamilton? I'd love that.
I think they should connect City Centre with Lister. Remember that rendering a couple years ago of a curved James st facade at City Centre that would act as the front 'plaza' of a new city hall?
Let's do it AND save Lister at the same time.
by the way, this is the exact idea that was floated and killed in the 50's when they decided to tear down old city hall...connect it with Lister across the road.
Too bad they didn't do it then. At least now we can still save 1 one of those buildings.

[coalminecanary]

I don't think it needs to be connected to lister. I dont think lister shoud be office space at all. I think if city hall is permanently stationed in city ctr, liter reno into condos will be such a moneymaking idea that it will happen naturally. that whole intersection would see positive changes. city ctr is already seeing positive changes and the city hall location is only temporary at this point. make it permanent and retail will be attracted there quickly

[the dude]

city hall in a mall. typical. we're all going to hell.

actually, one question comes to mind: would the city centre be owned by the city or continue to be operated by fercan? not even in this city could we pull off having city hall in a privately owned building. what about public gatherings, protests, etc.? all those sercurity guards and cameras. it's sketchy at best.

[coalminecanary]

It wouldn't be a mall anymore. It's barely a mall now. And it's never going to be a mall again no matter what happens so we might as well put it to good use. As far as ownership, I don't know what the solution is but the lease rate now is 1/5 of the most recent Lister lease rate speculation!

[HAMRetrofit]

City staff could work part time for the retailers and even set up offices in some of the stores.

Could set up the planning department in the food court hopefully with extra parking and drive thrus. Suburban counselors could have offices in a new Walmart. The mayor's offices and meeting rooms could be set up in the back of HMV with a section for previewing CDs. Staff could have the option of wearing headphones during counsel meetings. This could be a great idea. They could even earn extra $ for the city by working part time in retail. The existing city hall at Bay and Main could be converted to a petting zoo in the mean time. After hours the animals could run the city.

This is all going to be a huge step to reviving the city. Expect efficiency and fiscal responsibility at city hall to surge.

[SteelTown]

:haha:

[matt602]

If the City Centre is going to become a City Hall, it's gonna need some MAJOR changes. I can't even imagine how costly that would be. The building would have to be completely re-designed on the inside. There would also need to be some kind of space for a council chambers somewhere inviting. You can't just bury that deep inside the building, it needs it's own addition like the "pod" in Toronto's City Hall, or the current City Hall here. Let's also remember that the City Centre building is probably designed even crappier than City Hall was. It's just another disposable building that will need to be vacated in 15-20 years.

Hart probably wouldn't be too happy about all of this, given they just settled in. Wouldn't be kind to boot them out so quick.

[raisethehammer]

they'd better take ownership of that dump if we make it city hall.
I'm sick of all the plastic signs and cheesy reno jobs. the streetscape sucks,the ownership sucks. only in hamilton would we reward a trashy landlord with gobs of public money. buy it from those clowns and turn it into a real city hall.

[the dude]

i'm not mocking you, coalmine. i understand your point but it's too much for me to even contemplate right now.

[SteelTown]

You all have to realize the chance of City Centre being a City Hall is slim as majority of councillors are pro-renovate City Hall and they'll keep pushing for it. There are only 2 councillors that want to stay in City Centre.

Plus there's no point in moving to City Centre you'll need to renovate City Centre as well so what's the point? Add a few million to link up City Centre and Lister Block. There's no point. It cost Eaton’s $30 million to build City Centre and it’ll cost more than $30 million to renovate and purchase the Lister Block.

Now if they decide to move City Hall to Lister Block and use the City Centre as a transition period until they can afford a tower behind Lister Block for more office space than I can understand it.

[raisethehammer]

good idea...then we can close King William to car traffic and buy up the lot across the street to create a public plaza with a nice mixed use building beside the sirloin cellar with a patio facing Lister. now we're talking.

[vid]

Port Arthur, from 1913 to 1969, had its city hall in a private building. (Well, they bought it some time in the 1940s or something, but still.)

That was before video cameras and paranoia and shit. Most of Thunder Bay's city hall is located in a mall but we actually own it. On the bright side, its occupancy rate has gone from 35% to 75%.

Personally, I'd like to see Hamilton get a nice shiny tower. :) Not unlike Municipal Building in Vilnius, but nicer.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Savivaldybes_pastatas.Municipality_building.Vilnius2.JPG/150px-Savivaldybes_pastatas.Municipality_building.Vilnius2.JPG

[coalminecanary]

I don't think office space is the answer for Lister. I thin kthe city should forget the LIUNA deals. The city needs to push back at LIUNA, start enforcing some property standards and maybe they'll figure it out themselves that they aren't geetting free money and they'd better either sell it to cut losses of come up with a better plan for profit (condos?).

But I think that city ctr is a good location for city hall. And if it's cheaper to renovate than existing city hall then why not.

We need something functional ASAP. We can worry about form later (when we can hopefully afford it better - we might just get there too if we make some good decisions over the next little while ahem LRT ahem)

[LikeHamilton]

City Hall Renovations Set To Proceed
Feb, 04 2008 - 5:40 PM

HAMILTON (AM900 CHML) - Hamilton's Senior Director of Capital Planning says the renovations to City Hall can still be completed by the end of 2010.
Gerry Davis has provided a city committee with an update on the status of the project.

He confirms that eight firms have submitted an expression of interest about becoming the new design consultant. That contract should be awarded by the middle of next month.

Davis also confirms that the removal of asbestos will begin in the coming weeks, to be completed this summer.

The budget for renovating City Hall is set at close to 70 million dollars.

- Ken Mann

[raisethehammer]

here's hoping.
We have plenty of room (and foundation already in place) for a new tower to the south.
The site is beautiful, treed and has ample room for public gatherings/skating rinks etc.....

[SteelTown]

Garwood-Jones eyes City Hall rebuild

Andrew Dreschel
The Hamilton Spectator
(Apr 9, 2008)

The Hamilton architect whose indelible stamp is all over downtown may leave his mark on the $68-million renovation of City Hall.

The city is negotiating to bring Trevor Garwood-Jones aboard to complete the design work for the delayed project, which is scheduled to be finished by December, 2010.

Garwood-Jones was the chief architect for such other downtown landmarks as Hamilton Place, the Art Gallery of Hamilton and the Hamilton Convention Centre.

His other prominent works include the Hamilton Regional Cancer Centre and renovations to the Hamilton GO Centre and James Street Armoury.

Garwood-Jones could not be reached for comment.

But Councillor Lloyd Ferguson, chair of the City Hall renovation subcommittee, said the city is in final talks with Garwood Jones & Hanham Architects, which, he says, submitted a bid in partnership with a Toronto firm.

Gerry Davis, the city's director of capital planning, expects to make a hiring recommendation to the subcommittee on Monday.

It may not be a sure thing.

Davis says the two sides are still apart on money and the scope of the work.

But Ferguson is hoping they can reach a deal.

"I'd personally like someone who is from Hamilton, who has to drive by City Hall every day for the rest of his life, and not someone from Toronto who may come back to Hamilton three or four times a year, or less," said Ferguson.

"I want a guy who's ... proud of it when it's finished."

The city had to go looking for a new City Hall architect back in January, when the Toronto company originally hired to do the work bowed out.

Things fell apart after city staff realized renovations to the 1960 building were going to cost more than first estimated, and so the company's contract was put on hold.

By the time council approved the extra funding, the firm, NORR Ltd., had committed its people to other projects.

The city paid NORR $1.3 million, or about a third of their original contract, because they had completed roughly 30 per cent of the work.

Davis says the city has now budgeted about $4 million for the balance of the architectural work.

He says four companies were shortlisted and two were asked to submit bids.

One was disqualified because they didn't follow the process.

Though Davis was careful not to identify the final bidder, he admits the discussions are in a "sensitive" phase.

Ferguson makes no bones about the finalist being Garwood-Jones. He says if an agreement can't be reached with him, the city will have to ask the contractors who end up bidding for the construction work to find their own architect.

Ferguson figures the search for a replacement has already set the project back by up to three months.

It has been a year now since city staff first began the move from City Hall to the Hamilton City Centre, for the duration of the renovation.

Most of the staff had vacated the building by July.

The mayor and councillors left last September.

Although there hasn't been much progress to the naked eye, Ferguson says the project has in fact been moving forward.

He notes the electronic equipment has been stripped out of the building and its heritage features preserved.

The removal of asbestos is slated to begin this week.

The request for proposals for a consortium to assemble a complete construction team went out last week.

And now we'll soon know whether the venerable Garwood-Jones will be part of the crew.

Even if the pace seems more like a Valium picnic than a house on fire, Ferguson is confident City Hall will be restored and ready for reoccupation by the end of 2010.

Maybe so.

But since there's an election that same fall, that means there's a chance some members of the current council may never make it back home again.

[SteelTown]

I'm not a real fan of Garwood-Jones previous work.

[realcity]

^ Me too. I like Hamilton Place, but the Convention Center? and the AGH? These two buildings are hugely critized, the AGH needed to be redone by Kuwabara it was so bad. Garwood does good interiors.

I wasn't so excited to read this, except that he's local. I would like to see local but not someone who built so much Brutalist buildings and it would be better to have more variety of designers. I think Garwood is too 'in the past'. I like Thier + Curran. The Education Center is fantastic.

[SteelTown]

I know one of the architect from Thier + Curran. I'll see if someone I can find out if they submitted a bid. There office is on Herkimer, that nice building with the lions out front of the building. Great building.

I really like today's Spec editorial cartoon, my thoughts extactly lol.

[SteelTown]

http://media.hamiltonspectator.com/images/f0/49/8c48534e40bba951486ef6688513.jpeg

Sooooo true lol

[BrianE]

I'm confused? I thought this reno of city was all an interior kind of deal? Why is everyone getting on about the outside, It's not going to change, it has "architectural and historical" signifigance.

If Garwood Jones does excellent interiors, then it seems like they hired the right guy.

[flar]

I hope they don't touch the exterior, but maybe they have to replace the marble cladding? I hope not, the cheap alternative for replacement material could be a tossup between corrugated aluminium and vinyl siding. But if Garwood-Jones gets the job it might end up encased in preformed concrete.

[DC83]

http://media.hamiltonspectator.com/images/f0/49/8c48534e40bba951486ef6688513.jpeg

Sooooo true lol

HAHAHAHA Mackay is a good cartoonist, I check out his site regularly

"where's the door" ahhaha soooo true.

[SteelTown]

Garwood-Jones bid too high, city says

April 15, 2008
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator

Hamilton is on the hunt, yet again, for an architect to lead the renovation of City Hall.

The city couldn't reach a deal with well-known city architect Trevor Garwood-Jones to design the project, councillors heard yesterday.

Gerry Davis, director of capital planning and implementation, said the firm's bid was nearly a million dollars over the city's $4 million budget for the work.

"It's too excessive," he said.

The firm lowered the bid to $4.2 million, but added several conditions, such as more flexibility on cost overruns and the right to walk away from the project. Davis said staff can't support the conditions. "It's not an acceptable submission."

A Toronto firm originally hired for the job bowed out earlier this year.

The city now plans to look for an architect as part of "integrated team approach."

In essence, teams will bid to complete the $69 million project from start to finish, including design, construction and operation.

The city won't know the cost and timeline of the winning team's bid until late summer. If it's rejected by staff or council, the city will be forced to start over and find another architect.

"The project will only fall behind if the integrated team approach process doesn't go ahead," said Davis.

The offer from Garwood-Jones is still alive for three months, so if the city found out no teams are interested in bidding, it could still accept the original offer.

Councillor Lloyd Ferguson is hoping Garwood-Jones will come back with another offer in the meantime. He would prefer a local architect work on the project.

"But we also have a duty to taxpayers," he said, noting he can't support the standing bid.

"If (Garwood-Jones) really wants this, then he has the opportunity to come back to us."

Garwood-Jones was behind the design of several downtown landmarks, such as Hamilton Place, the Art Gallery of Hamilton and the Hamilton Convention Centre.

[thistleclub]

Top architect back on City Hall project (http://thespec.com/News/Local/article/383042)
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jun 9, 2008)

A new deal to renovate City Hall is in the works and one of Hamilton's top architects is back on the project.

The city is in negotiations with a team of companies to complete the $47-million construction project.

Councillor Lloyd Ferguson said the team includes several well-known firms such as Ellis-Don, Black and McDonald and architect Trevor Garwood-Jones.

"We've got the dream team," said Ferguson.

A previous attempt to negotiate a deal with Garwood-Jones fell apart because of the costs.

The city hopes to work out a deal with the team over the next four months.

If a deal can be finalized, the city and the team will agree to split the cost of any overruns or share the benefits of any savings.

[SteelTown]

I suppose Ferguson really wants Garwood-Jones. I believe Garwood was in charge of renovating the GO Station so he has some good projects under his portfolio.

Though I'm worried of what he'll plan for the exterior, especially the front entrance, as he doesn't seem to understand things from a pedestrian viewpoint.

[FairHamilton]

Hopefully, things get underway and completed soon.

On Friday I noticed the temporary fence surround City Hall is rented from Hertz. Has anyone ever wondered how much the city pays to rent that fence? I'm willing to bet they've paid (or will pay) many times more on the rental than it would cost to purchase the fencing.

From what I understand having the City Hall employees at Jackson Square has re-invigorated the mall. I was there on a Thursday afternoon the other week and was amazed by the activity for a mid-afternoon weekday.

What do you think will happen to the mall when those employees leave, for City Hall?

[SteelTown]

A city department will probably stay and those new office space will probably end up as call centre jobs.

[DC83]

^^ to be fair, the Mall and downtown in general is a lot busier than even a couple years ago.
Did my market shop & such on Sat morning/early afternoon and downtown was (again) jumpin.
It's a combo of a up-and-coming city centre with great weather which keep bringing people to the core!

I agree, Steeltown. I'm concerned w/ Garwood-Jones. I'm not a big fan. We'll have to wait and see I guess. I'm just happy they're FINALLY (almost) starting!!

[Millstone]

Hopefully, things get underway and completed soon.

On Friday I noticed the temporary fence surround City Hall is rented from Hertz. Has anyone ever wondered how much the city pays to rent that fence? I'm willing to bet they've paid (or will pay) many times more on the rental than it would cost to purchase the fencing.

From what I understand having the City Hall employees at Jackson Square has re-invigorated the mall. I was there on a Thursday afternoon the other week and was amazed by the activity for a mid-afternoon weekday.

What do you think will happen to the mall when those employees leave, for City Hall?
The employees are in City Centre, and that mall continues to drag.

[FairHamilton]

Oops, sorry.

Being relatively new to Hamilton I'm still learning certain nuances. So Jackson Square and City Centre are linked, like one single mall (i.e. I don't have to go outside to get from one to the other)? Please let me know.

Anyways, the place seemed much more active and filled with people on a Thursday afternoon, than it has late morning/early afternoon on a Saturday. I'm assuming having lots of city employees in the vicinity has helped. Is that a correct assumption?

[SteelTown]

Oops, sorry.

Being relatively new to Hamilton I'm still learning certain nuances. So Jackson Square and City Centre are linked, like one single mall (i.e. I don't have to go outside to get from one to the other)? Please let me know.

Yes, City Centre used to be the Eaton's Centre, which is linked to Jackson Square.


Anyways, the place seemed much more active and filled with people on a Thursday afternoon, than it has late morning/early afternoon on a Saturday. I'm assuming having lots of city employees in the vicinity has helped. Is that a correct assumption?

Yes, city employees are all located at the North end of City Centre. Probably thousands of extra employees injected to the Centre within the months since they moved.

[FairHamilton]

Yes, City Centre used to be the Eaton's Centre, which is linked to Jackson Square.

Thanks, when inside I've always viewed the entire complex as Jackson Square.

Yes, city employees are all located at the North end of City Centre. Probably thousands of extra employees injected to the Centre within the months since they moved.

That's what I figured, and I'm assuming that when they move back to City Hall the downtown will suffer. That assumption is based on the fact that even though City Hall is only on the south side of Main Street many people won't travel that far to downtown...........

[SteelTown]

It shouldn't suffer that much as city employees will move across to Lister Block, well we will find out if that's true at the end of the month. Plus I'm willing to bet that they'll leave a department at City Centre.

[flar]

Jackson Square (the dingy low ceiling mall) has always been pretty busy. City Centre (the big open mall with skylights) was usually almost completely empty before city hall moved there, and it remains quiet even with city hall in there.

[FairHamilton]

Jackson Square (the dingy low ceiling mall)

LOL, it did kind of remind me of Toronto's PATH. Not that PATH is dingy, but because PATH being underground lacks natural light and so did Jackson Square.

Not surprised City Hall hasn't reinvigorated the other less busy place. Tough to set up a business when you know a major foot traffic tenant is only there temporarily.

[Millstone]

City Centre really needs to be demolished. Then again so does Jackson Square, but at least it has some redeeming qualities.

I'd actually like to see CC do well because it has so much natural light.

[matt602]

The City needs to stop considering Garwood-Jones. I am glad they're including Ellis-Don on this one. They've done some awesome stuff in Toronto (in my opinion, I'm sure this could be debated though).

[go_leafs_go02]

Hamilton should demolish Jackson square, and force the tenants into City Centre. I like the mall, it has alot of potential, just needs to remove itslf ot he dollar stores, thrift/liquidation stores, and ethnic food courts with some big name tenants that are North American.

[Millstone]

That Hangers store is now open (C-list clothing store) and something new is going in near the entrance to CC.

[highwater]

The City needs to stop considering Garwood-Jones. I am glad they're including Ellis-Don on this one. They've done some awesome stuff in Toronto (in my opinion, I'm sure this could be debated though).

Garwood-Jones is an architect and Ellis Don are general contractors, so they're not really interchangeable.

[matt602]

I know. I meant to mention Ellis-Don as "by the way".

[hamiltonguy]

Jackson Square is alot better than City Centre because of the mixed use nature. If it weren't for all the buildings on it it'd prolly be nowhere near as busy.

[SteelTown]

If I had to choose between Jackson Square and City Centre, I would pick City Centre. JS is too dark and sorta gets you depressed. No one really uses the rooftop so they should install skylights through JS and then it'll greatly improve the environment.

[highwater]

I know. I meant to mention Ellis-Don as "by the way".

I can get a little pedantic at times. Just ignore me.

[tri-xy68]

Has the City made their decision yet? I know they were talking with GJH about money and scope! What else is there to talk about??

They spent 1.3 million on DD drawings? They said that it was about 1/3rd of the contract price. The construction drawings should have been more than 50% complete for that???

Any new news would be appreciated.

[raisethehammer]

yea, they picked Garwood-Jones.

I like JS better than CC. pop some skylight into JS and it would be great.
I love the sections in the Standard Life building and the area just south of the foodcourt with the walkways up on the second level.
CC was built as a mall. now it just sucks. it needs to be reconfigured to face James North and add residential/office space inside.

[astroblaster]

i love the idea of opening CC to James..

the inside of CC is fine.. but outside infuriates me. the colour, the style, the fake flags (on the tower).. It's one of my least favourite buildings in hamilton

[tri-xy68]

How do you know they picked Garwood-Jones? Is there a link to that news? Just because they were talking doesn't mean they signed a contract.

I am skeptical the city wanted to spend the money! They said they already spent $1.3M on DD drawings, which would be useless to GJH.

Can anyone confirm with some link??

Thanks.

[SteelTown]

They haven't selected Garwood-Jones and EllisDon yet, they have about three months to negotiate a deal.

[SteelTown]

I'm quoting the latest news article for City Hall renvation....

Top architect back on City Hall project (http://thespec.com/News/Local/article/383042)
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jun 9, 2008)

A new deal to renovate City Hall is in the works and one of Hamilton's top architects is back on the project.

The city is in negotiations with a team of companies to complete the $47-million construction project.

Councillor Lloyd Ferguson said the team includes several well-known firms such as Ellis-Don, Black and McDonald and architect Trevor Garwood-Jones.

"We've got the dream team," said Ferguson.

A previous attempt to negotiate a deal with Garwood-Jones fell apart because of the costs.

The city hopes to work out a deal with the team over the next four months.

If a deal can be finalized, the city and the team will agree to split the cost of any overruns or share the benefits of any savings.

[raisethehammer]

sorry, my mistake.

Hmag has a great proposal for a new public square in front of city hall in the new issue.
the whole issue is great actually, check it out.

[tri-xy68]

I doubt if GJH will agree to split the overruns?? Who would agree to that? They want to take out $1.3 million out of the original fees for the architect, but suggest they split the overruns or cost savings? Doesn't sound like there is much cost savings left after cutting the fees by 30%.

It should be interesting to see the details of the contract, if they sign one, which I doubt. It seems the only way is to go is design build and get an architect to rubber stamp the NORR drawings.

Cheers

[beanmedic]

How much is the city paying for the city centre lease?