Rural Commuter Rail [Archive] - SkyscraperPage Forum

waterloowarrior

Oct 27, 2007, 5:01 PM

Ottawa's rural commuters should get a train: study

Last Updated: Friday, March 16, 2007 | 8:46 AM ET

CBC

A commuter rail line to Ottawa from the counties east of it would enhance the lives of residents and promote economic development, a new study says

Commuters who drive or take the bus from communities such as Limoges, Casselman and Alexandria endure a rush-hour ordeal through the clogged junction of Highways 17 and 417 nicknamed "the parking lot."

But many would rather take the train, said the report prepared for the United Counties of Prescott-Russell.

Officials such as Sylvain Charlebois think that's an idea worth pursuing.

"There's always a problem at rush hours," Charlebois, co-ordinator of development and tourism for the region, said Thursday. "So the commuter train would probably resolve that issue."

Tentatively approved by Via

The study recommends running the trains on existing Via tracks with possible stops at Limoges, Casselman and Alexandria — an idea Via has already tentatively approved.

There would be two departures during morning rush hour, two in the afternoon and additional return trips in the evenings and on weekends.

Transportation expert Harry Gow, who helped put together the report, said the first phase of the project would involve one rail line to Alexandria and improved bus routes. He said eventually it could be expanded to a second rail line along Highway 17.

Municipal officials presented the plan for the estimated $7-million project to the provincial government on Feb. 27 and continue to discuss it with them. They hope it could be partly funded by gas tax revenues.

Gow, founder of the research and advocacy group Transport 2000, said transit projects tend to come together more quickly in rural than urban areas.

"That's the elegance of things in the country," said Gow. "Things tend to move fast because you don't have a heck of a lot of people to please. You have to please the taxpayer, and that's sort of the end game with these rural municipalities."

not sure what the latest status of this proposal is...

waterloowarrior

Oct 27, 2007, 5:08 PM

found this from Casselman's Sept 25/07 meeting

Resolution for the commuter train:
Resolution no. 2007-331
Moved by: daniel lafleur
Seconded by: francyn a. Leblanc
Be it hereby resolved that the council of the village of
Casselman agrees to participate financially in the
Transport commission of north glengarry and prescott
Et russell.
And be it further resolved that the council of the village
Of casselman appoints the municipality the nation to
Manage the funds of the transport commission of north
Glengarry and prescott and russell.
The corporation of the village of casselman - minutes - september 25, 2007
Minutes -september 25, 2007 page: 2007.23.6
And be it further resolved that the proposed reference
Terms are referred to the transport commission of north
Glengarry and prescott-russell for revision and
Recommendation.
And be it further resolved that the council of the
Village of casselman commits a financial contribution of
$30,000.00 for 2007 for a specialized transport systems and
Recognizes the commitment of an additional $20,000.00
Contribution in 2008.
And be it further resolved that the company rail trust is
Engaged to begin the establishment and the application
Of the transport specialized system for municipalities
Being part of the transport commission of north
Glengarry and prescott and russell.

Jamaican-Phoenix

Oct 27, 2007, 5:29 PM

Sweet. At least something is getting done about Commuter Rail. :)

the capital urbanite

Jan 10, 2008, 6:17 PM

Ontario-Quebec to study rapid rail link

Norma Greenaway
Canwest News Service

Thursday, January 10, 2008

OTTAWA - Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty and his Quebec counterpart Jean Charest have agreed to finance a study on the feasibility of launching a high-speed rail service between Montreal and Windsor, Ont., CanWest News has learned.

The two premiers will formalize the bilateral agreement at a meeting Thursday in advance of a rare meeting Friday night with Prime Minister Stephen Harper and their provincial and territorial counterparts.

A rapid train system between Montreal and Windsor has been kicked around in the past, but there has not been a feasibility study about such a project in more than 10 years.

The idea is being resurrected now because of concerns about global warming and the need to reduce green house gases, according to a provincial source. Enhancing the attraction and use of public transit is seen as one way of tackling the problem.

The two premiers were the first to call for a first ministers' meeting to deal with heightened worries about the economy and key industries being whacked by the high-flying dollar and soaring energy prices.

Ottawa Citizen

I guess this previous internal VIA report from August of last year went unheeded....

High-speed rail studied to death, time for decision: Via Rail report
By Dean Beeby, THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA — The benefits of high-speed rail service in the Toronto-Montreal corridor have been demonstrated repeatedly and it’s time to stop studying the concept and make some decisions, says a new report for Via Rail.

“The merits of high-speed passenger rail have been clearly established,” says the report, obtained under the Access to Information Act.

“The question is not to ask whether it is worth government support, but rather where it stands with respect to competing mega-projects on the priority list of decision makers. More studies are of no use in this regard.”

The Aug. 14 report was prepared by a consulting engineer for Via Rail’s board of directors as they revisit the issue of a high-speed rail link connecting Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

The document reviews seven major studies since 1984 that examined the feasibility of building the link, at a cost ranging up to $11.1 billion. It also reports on a 2004 study looking at a similar link between Calgary and Edmonton, estimated to cost $3.4 billion.

The analysis, by Andre Gravelle of the firm UMA Engineering Ltd., notes that every Canadian study to date has concluded that significant government investment is required to build the infrastructure for high-speed rail, as has been the case in other such projects in Japan, France and elsewhere.

“These studies have also indicated that, like roads and airports, public investment is required to finance the construction of the required infrastructure.”

But once the link between Montreal and Toronto is built, passenger volumes are forecast to be high enough to turn a profit for any firm operating the service.

Gravelle cites one 1991 study that indicated almost a third of high-speed rail passengers would be snatched from the airlines, and suggests the airline industry helped kill the proposal.

“The results of this study created considerable concern among the airlines, given the huge public investment required to implement high-speed rail.

“It is believed that the ensuing lobby was a major factor in the lack of support for follow-up action on HSR (high-speed rail) proposals.”

The report also generally faults the “Canadian bureaucracy, suspicious of demand and revenue forecasts” for allowing high-speed rail proposals to wither on the vine.

A spokesman for Via Rail said the report was ordered by the board because many of them are new to the job and want to be briefed on issues facing the Crown corporation.

“Via’s board of directors is to a large degree newly constituted and has, quite naturally, been going through the process of familiarizing themselves with Via’s history, current performance and prospects,” said Malcolm Andrews, head of corporate communications.

He cautioned that Gravelle’s report does not necessarily reflect the views of the corporation, and “any opinions expressed therein are his own.”

Last week, the federal government announced it would spend $692 million on Via Rail over five years to help rebuild crumbling infrastructure. Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said the new money would, among other things, help reduce greenhouse gas emissions by getting people out of their cars.

The corporation receives about $170 million each year to subsidize the travel of its 4.1 million passengers.

The announcement at Toronto’s Union Station last Thursday drew immediate fire from the Canadian Airports Council, which said the rail sector should not be getting subsidies while the airline industry struggles with high costs and taxation.

“Canada’s 100 million air travellers a year will pay nearly $300 million in rent this year while the government pours nearly $700 million to benefit Via Rail’s 4.1 million passengers,” said council president Jim Facette.

“This is a double standard that clearly must end.”

The UMA report on high-speed rail is among the first internal documents released by Via Rail since the Crown corporation became subject to the Access to Information Act on Sept. 1.

waterloowarrior

Jun 4, 2008, 2:46 AM

Rural mayors go it alone to plan commuter rail line
Cassandra Drudi
Ottawa Citizen
Tuesday, June 03, 2008

OTTAWA - A recommendation made last June by Mayor Larry O'Brien's task force on transportation continues to gather steam even though council has shifted its focus from regional transit to transit within the city.

The task force's final report recommended region-wide rail service, mostly on existing tracks, that would include service to the city's surrounding regions, covering more distance with each of three separate service expansions in 2010, 2017 and 2037.

On June 13, Mr. O'Brien is to meet with regional mayors for a followup to last year's transportation summit. On Tuesday, the mayor's office would not disclose what the city hopes to achieve at that meeting.

At last year's meeting, regional mayors were taken with the idea of extended rail service, said Arnprior Mayor Terry Gibeau.

"It seemed to make a hell of a lot of sense. Everybody signed on and away we went."

Now that the City of Ottawa has shifted its focus, Mr. Gibeau and mayors from eight other municipalities in Ontario and Quebec are in the preliminary stages of planning a commuter rail line on their own.

"It's a bunch of people who happen to be small-town politicians saying,
'Maybe we can do something from this end'," Mr. Gibeau said.

He and a group that includes Mayor Scott Wilson of Bristol, Que., aim to determine whether running commuter trains along the Ottawa Central Railway's line from Pembroke to Ottawa, criss-crossing the Ottawa River, is a viable option.

"It's a loser's argument to say we should discourage people from coming into the city," said Mr. Gibeau, "because they're going to keep coming.
They're going to keep driving cars and they're going to keep polluting."

A trial run of the train tentatively scheduled for September will run from Portage du Fort, Que., to Ottawa, near the Walkley rail yard, said Mr. Wilson.

"It's going to be nothing extravagant. We're not going to have bleachers or raised platforms or anything like that set up."

The trial run is intended to expose the riders to the route and the duration of the trip.

"There's a whole lot of homework to be done yet," said Mr. Gibeau, including determining whether the region has the ridership to support a commuter rail line.

Although the group is working independently of the city to examine commuting options, the western mayors have
approached West Carleton-March Councillor Eli El-Chantiry, whose ward the existing line crosses, about joining them for future discussions.

"Any effort from our neighbouring municipalities to reduce cars on our roads is a good sign," Mr. El-Chantiry said. "Having said that, it's always the devil in the details. Who's going to pay for what?"

To the city's southwest, a rail line runs through Smiths Falls, then on to Brockville. It has been identified as a possible solution for moving commuters, said Smiths Falls Mayor Dennis Staples.

"We have a number of citizens in my area who commute into Ottawa on a daily basis, clogging up roads," he said. "We're looking at ways that we can work with the city to come up with a better approach to getting people in and out of Ottawa for work."

Mr. Staples said he and other regional mayors expect to find out more about the city's transit plans at the June 13 meeting.

© Ottawa Citizen 2008

Aylmer

Jun 4, 2008, 11:00 AM

Ahhh!

I feel Ottawa is finaly making sensable options!

:)

c_speed3108

Jun 4, 2008, 3:40 PM

p_xavier

Jun 4, 2008, 5:09 PM

This was an interesting development this morning.

I wonder how it will do. I can only really rural commuter rail being feasible where tracks already exist. The other problem is it may make for one heck of a strange trip downtown...depending on where people are going.

We shall see.

It needs to be really well incorporated with the LRT system. As we previously saw on the "interim" solutions presented by the city, transfer stations at Fallowfield, Confederation and the Via Station could resolve this issue. Trains at every 2-5 minutes are more than acceptable for a transfer to downtown.

While we don't have a train station downtown, it's still not much of an inconvenience to transfer to the LRT if service is frequent.

Radster

Jun 5, 2008, 4:59 PM

While we don't have a train station downtown, it's still not much of an inconvenience to transfer to the LRT if service is frequent.

Exactly! Hopefully the commuters in those far-out areas will be able to see the big picture, mainly the time saved and decrease in stress by not having to deal with rush hour traffic or bad weather, $$ saved by not spending as much on gasoline when prices are skyrocketing, increased safety compared to driving, and increased comfort with the option of reading/sleeping. With all those pros taken into consideration, who cares if the train detours slightly by going to the Via station by Alta Vista? CBD will be a 5 minute LRT ride away.

waterloowarrior

Jun 9, 2008, 4:09 PM

Ottawa to host regional rail summit
The Ottawa Citizen
Monday, June 09, 2008

Municipal leaders from around Eastern Ontario are scheduled to gather at Ottawa City Hall on June 13 to pursue plans for a regional rail system, Mayor Larry O'Brien announced Monday morning.

The morning session is a follow-up to last year's summit, where mayors and reeves began discussing a proposal from Mr. O'Brien's mayor task force on transportation: to run trains from as far away as Arnprior, Smiths Falls and Alexandria into downtown Ottawa to ease the pressure commuters put on highways 416 and 417. The panel, led by former federal transportation minister David Collenette, suggested relying heavily on existing rail lines, and potentially even serving communities in the Outaouais.

Ottawa city council has spent the last several months examining plans for an urban mass-transit system within the city, but other Eastern Ontario towns were so taken with the idea that several have been pursuing elements of the plan independently. As the Citizen reported last week, mayors of communities in the Ottawa Valley are planning a test-run of a train along the Ottawa Central Railway line, which extends to Pembroke.

Federal Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon is to take part in the summit this Friday, as will Ontario Municipal Affairs Minister Jim Watson and National Capital Commission chief executive officer Marie Lemay.

© The Ottawa Citizen 2008

c_speed3108

Jun 10, 2008, 7:40 PM

Wakefield train could be used by commuters, supporters say
Dave Rogers, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Tuesday, June 10, 2008

OTTAWA - Supporters of the Hull-Chelsea-Wakefield Steam Train say the train should be relaunched with more equipment and new stations and track so the line can also be used for a commuter train linking Wakefield to Ottawa's light rail network.

John Trent, a spokesman for Friends of the Steam Train, said the federal and Quebec governments should help pay for improvements to the line and new equipment, which would be too expensive for Gatineau, Chelsea and La Peche, the owners of the line.

"Partners should be sought for building a new station next to the Casino with the opportunity for a smaller secondary station in Chelsea," the group said in a news release Tuesday.

"Improvements are needed in Wakefield, including covered platforms for rainy days.

"It is important to keep in mind that these rail lines can eventually be used for a light rail commuter service to Wakefield and to join the O-Train in Ottawa. The idea of extending the rail service to Montebello and the purchase of new rolling stock should be given new consideration."

Train owner Jean Gauthier decided in May to sell the 1907 steam locomotive and passenger cars because he said he had lost confidence in the ability of the three municipalities to manage the track. Train manager Andre Groulx said the business faced frequent demands for small improvements such as removing a tree near the line.

The municipalities have agreed to find a buyer for the business and fix a landslide north of the Alonzo Wright Bridge near Highway 105 that stopped the train in May. Chelsea Mayor Jean Perras said he hopes the train will roll again as early as September or October.

© The Ottawa Citizen 2008 ...

the capital urbanite

Jun 10, 2008, 8:25 PM

^ perhaps the title should be "Wakefield train CORRIDOR could be used by commuters..."?!

c_speed3108

Jun 10, 2008, 9:03 PM

^ perhaps the title should be "Wakefield train CORRIDOR could be used by commuters..."?!

Did the Delcan report say anything on steam trains? :haha:

waterloowarrior

Jul 23, 2008, 10:47 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/07/23/ot-train-080723.html
Group pushes for Ottawa Valley commuter train

Last Updated: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 | 5:50 PM ET Comments0 (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/07/23/ot-train-080723.html#socialcomments)Recommend0 (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/07/23/ot-train-080723.html#)

CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/credit.html)

A passenger train running along the Ottawa River between Pembroke and Ottawa would breathe new life into the region, an economic development group says.

The group, in Quebec's Pontiac region, wants the train to travel on existing track west of the national capital, passing through Renfrew, Ont., crossing into Quebec, and dipping through Portage-du-Fort and Shawville before crossing back into Ontario at Fitzroy Harbour, toward Kanata and Ottawa.

The group's chair, Heather Alberti-Dickson, said Wednesday that such a train would "just change the face of Pontiac," a region that once relied on forestry, but has been struggling economically since the downturn in the industry.

Alberti-Dickson said she has discussed the idea with most of the communities along the route, which are all trying to attract homeowners, tourists and businesses to the region.

"They're just so on board with this idea, because they can all see how it's going to benefit their communities," she said.

The Ottawa Central Railway owns the track, which is used daily to haul freight.

James Allen, the railway's general manager, said he supports the new plan and doesn't think it would be difficult to make room for a passenger train.

"Where these projects become difficult is where you have to lay down track. But where we are now the infrastructure is in place, so it's just a matter of using it."

The next step, Allen and Alberti-Dickson said, is to put together a business plan that includes information about the estimated cost of the service and the demand for it.

Once that is in place, the communities hope to approach the provincial and federal governments for money to support the project.

c_speed3108

Jul 25, 2008, 3:32 PM

Ottawa Sun
Fri, July 25, 2008
Train route pitched
Would aid Ottawa Valley commuters

By TERRI SAUNDERS, SUN MEDIA

A commuter train that would weave between Ontario and Quebec through the Ottawa Valley into the capital's west end could give an economic boost to communities along its route, say proponents of the plan.

"This train would do wonders for economic development throughout the region," said Heather Alberti-Dickson, chairwoman of the Pontiac Community Futures Development Corporation in Shawville, Que., the group behind the proposal. "I think all the communities would see an increase in population and it would mean more people could work in an urban area but live a rural lifestyle."

The train would run on existing track between Pembroke and Ottawa, travelling through communities such as Renfrew, Aylmer and Gatineau, with of the end line in Ottawa's west end.

FASTER COMMUTE

For people living in those communities, it could mean a much faster commute to work.

"I would think it would be lot faster than the existing bus service or the length of time it takes to travel by car," said Harry Gow of Transport Canada 2000, a transportation advocacy group. "There are parts of the line where a train could travel at (112 km/h) and that's faster than a lot of buses or cars can travel on the roadways in those areas."

The existing track is owned by the Ottawa Central Railway and is currently being used by freight trains operated by local industry.

A two-car run three times a day -- morning, noon and late afternoon -- could service commuters heading towards Ottawa, while returning trains could be used to boost area tourism say proponents.

"We have great white water rafting opportunities in the area, and I can imagine a group of rafters hopping on a train in Ottawa and coming up for a weekend," said Alberti-Dickson.

BUSINESS PLAN

The group will now approach the federal government for funding in order to complete a needs assessment and prepare a business plan. Support is already on the table from many of the area municipalities.

"They think it's a great idea," said Alberti-Dickson. "They can see the potential on so many different levels."

Alberti-Dickson said the service could drastically reduce the number of vehicles that travel on roadways between Pembroke and Ottawa every day.

"We believe there's about $50,000 spent on gas every day for the amount of vehicles which travel those roads into Ottawa," she said. "We think people would much rather save their money, get on a train and have a pleasant ride into work."

This thing seems to have some legs.

waterloowarrior

Aug 1, 2008, 6:17 PM

VIA Rail to make improvements to Ottawa-area rail line
By Ottawa Business Journal Staff (info_obj@transcontinental.ca)
Fri, Aug 1, 2008 9:00 AM EST

http://www.ottawabusinessjournal.com/temporaryimages/bp14050.jpg Ottawa Business Journal VIA Rail Canada is investing more $25 million to improve rail infrastructure between Ottawa and Montreal, prompted by new funding from the federal government to improve passenger rail service.
"These initiatives will improve comfort, speed, ride quality and reliability," said VIA Rail CEO Paul Cote.

"They will also enhance overall safety and increase scheduling flexibility and capacity for additional trains. Just as importantly, a more efficient operation will also contribute to reductions in fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions."

The national rail carrier said it will be launching a multi-phase, multi-year program as part of the federal government's $692-million investment, with the first phase of the project to include a 760-metre-long passing track about 16 kilometres east of Ottawa, and the instalment of new continuously welded rail and other associated track work over some 40 track-miles between Coteau, Que. and Moose Creek, Ont.

VIA Rail also plans to modernize and improve the layout of the public washrooms, ticket office and baggage operations, as well as enlarging its Panorama lounge to accommodate increased demand. The company said it would also be making environment improvements to the station.

Three Ottawa companies have been selected to work on the station in a deal worth about $500,000: Terlin Construction Ltd. will be the general contractor, while CSV Architects Inc. and Norr Ltd. will provide design and engineering support. The work is expected to begin shortly and be completed by this fall.

VIA Rail also said it would be performing structural rehabilitation of the bridge over the South Nation River in Casselman.

this should help that proposed line for eastern ottawa

Rathgrith

Aug 1, 2008, 10:27 PM

My fingers are crossed for electrification and eventual high speed rail. And trains running every hour. Come on!

p_xavier

Aug 1, 2008, 11:46 PM

My fingers are crossed for electrification and eventual high speed rail. And trains running every hour. Come on!

But that would be a different corridor... there's one reserved as that's the Canada Trail. The welded tracks, is that something new in Canada? It's usually used for high speed tracks. First time I've heard of it here.

eemy

Aug 2, 2008, 1:03 AM

But that would be a different corridor... there's one reserved as that's the Canada Trail. The welded tracks, is that something new in Canada? It's usually used for high speed tracks. First time I've heard of it here.

The O-Train runs on welded tracks and I'm pretty certain it's been installed in the Toronto area. I don't think it's uncommon in areas with heavy train traffic.

p_xavier

Aug 2, 2008, 1:33 AM

The O-Train runs on welded tracks and I'm pretty certain it's been installed in the Toronto area. I don't think it's uncommon in areas with heavy train traffic.

I assumed it was the new kind, tied to concrete plates, I guess we'll see in the future what they're installing. It's still surprising that most rails are still using the same fabrication methods as of 250 years ago... sigh.

ikerrin

Aug 2, 2008, 2:19 PM

I really hope that these commuter rail plans and track improvements happen. Without owning a car, its next to impossible to get out of the city easily. I would love to take the train to Wakefield or Pembroke or Perth.

In the summer Perth is hopping, but there are cars parked everywhere. If train travel were possible, you could ditch all the parking lots and build more shopping, apartments, and commercial real estate. Between commuters and tourists, I am sure that Ottawa is ready to enter its rail era:tup:

Rathgrith

Aug 2, 2008, 9:33 PM

^^ I think one reason for welded rial on concrete tracks is that Europe, unlike Canada, has little forestry resources to cut down trees and true them into ties. Its could also be because of the heavy tracks but I think the resources plays a factor.

DHLawrence

Aug 3, 2008, 12:10 AM

They use concrete sleepers (ties) in the western US as well. I think it's mainly the weight--concrete sleepers are usually clamped to heavier rail to allow heavier freight trains to run on them, especially coal trains.

Some commuter agencies have even been experimenting with plastic sleepers. Not only recycling, but they're pretty much guaranteed to last forever and a day!

the capital urbanite

Aug 5, 2008, 6:35 PM

with few exceptions the Quebec city-Windsor corridor is continuous welded rail.

Cre47

Aug 21, 2008, 6:59 PM

Looks like they will make a trail run this fall.

Valley commuter train line set for test in October
The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Thursday, August 21, 2008

OTTAWA - The commuter rail line discussed by mayors of communities in eastern Ontario and West Quebec has set a date for its trial run.

On Oct. 5, the mayors of Bristol, Que., Arnprior and Renfrew will join other local politicians and Ottawa Central Railway staff on a test run of the train from the Walkley railyard to Pembroke along existing OCR tracks.

The trial run is intended to expose the riders to the route and duration of the trip.
The idea of a regional rail line for commuters was first raised last June by Ottawa Mayor Larry O'Brien's task force on transportation. Since then, the regional mayors have been looking into the viability of a commuter rail line on their own.

Justin10000

Aug 21, 2008, 9:27 PM

What vehicles do they have to run this trial?

Aylmer

Aug 21, 2008, 9:29 PM

OOoooooooooh!

Fancy! I wanna ride!

:)

Rathgrith

Aug 22, 2008, 3:05 AM

What vehicles do they have to run this trial?

That's exactly what I am thinking. The Wakefield Steam train. The O-train? Mayor O'briens personal fortune? Who knows!

Dado

Aug 22, 2008, 4:32 AM

They might be able to secure an RDC or two for the test run from VIA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Rail_Diesel_Car

The other obvious possibility is to find a couple of carriages from somewhere (again, probably VIA - shouldn't be too hard since it will be in the off-season) and hook them up to an OCR locomotive.

The spare O-Train/Talent would be a possibility in a sane world, but somehow I don't think the powers-that-be at the City will be all that enthused to see their vehicles operating on other tracks.

I would think that some kind of DMU (either something heavy like an RDC or something light like a Talent) would make the most sense to run this service unless it becomes popular enough that a locomotive+carriages set-up becomes the more economical choice.

c_speed3108

Aug 22, 2008, 12:07 PM

Alright so now we need to bring up the other runs..... :banana:

Commuter rail to Alexandria a possibility by next year
Casselman mayor has high hopes for pilot project after area leaders meet with VIA president
Laura Drake, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Friday, August 22, 2008

A pilot project that would see VIA trains taking commuters between Alexandria and Ottawa could be in place by fall 2009, the mayor of Casselman said yesterday, but any integration into Ottawa's transit system will have to wait until big questions about downtown light rail are settled.

"In the past six months we've been getting regular phone calls. They want to know when the train's going to start," said Mayor Conrad Lamadeleine. "There's hope that next year we would be experiencing a pilot project."

Mr. Lamadeleine met VIA Rail president Paul Côté in Montreal yesterday, along with Ottawa Mayor Larry O'Brien and Smiths Falls Mayor Dennis Staples, to discuss regional commuter rail using VIA's property.

"VIA made it very clear that they wanted to work with us to look at the capacity of the current system to host some additional ridership," Mr. Staples said.

The idea of a regional rail service built mostly on existing tracks was sparked by a recommendation last summer by the mayor's task force on transportation. Discussions about the system were furthered at a regional mayors' meeting hosted by Mr. O'Brien in June.

The rail line from Alexandria in the east has scheduled improvements such as installing a passing track at Carlsbad Springs that should make a pilot project possible by 2009, Mr. Lamadeleine said. The village mayor estimated that as many as 1,000 people would use the service that would terminate at Ottawa's main VIA station.

A pilot project for the commuter rail to the south of Ottawa is further down the line. Mr. Staples said Smiths Falls will start work immediately to identify what the exact need would be for the service, though he's certain it will be welcome.

"We have a number of people in our community who would be happy to use a line from our city through to the Fallowfield station," he said.

Mr. O'Brien said he was pleased with the commitments Mr. Côté made at yesterday's meeting, which included integrating OC Transpo's planned SmartCard payment system into any future commuter rail.

"We agreed that that once (Ottawa's transit) system has been approved by council we would see what integration would be needed to ensure that the systems work together," he said.

The City of Ottawa has decided on a $4-billion transit plan that includes a tunnel in the downtown core and expanding rail to the east, west and south. However, city council has not yet decided in what order the features of the plan will be built.

Bay Councillor Alex Cullen, who chairs the city's transit committee, said he expects discussion of the new rapid transit system to dominate this fall's public consultations on the city's transportation master plan, which were announced yesterday.

"I don't want to call (light rail) the elephant in the room, because everyone knows about it," he said, adding that issues such as cycling, walking and roads should all be addressed at the meetings.

Mr. Cullen said he expects city staff will unveil several possible schedules for building the transit system on Sept. 9, before the public consultations take place. He said he presumes most of those options will see the downtown tunnel built first, but after that there are many possibilities.

Council is set to vote on an implementation plan on Nov. 26.

- - -

Transportation Master Plan Public Consultations

Thursday, Sept. 11

City Hall Rotunda

110 Laurier Ave. West

Monday, Sept. 15

Jim Durrell Recreation Centre

1265 Walkley Rd.

Tuesday, Sept. 16

Bob MacQuarrie Recreation Complex

1490 Youville Dr.

Thursday, Sept. 18

Glen Cairn

50 Castlefrank Rd.

Monday, Sept. 22

Nepean Sportsplex, Salon A

1701 Woodroffe Ave.

© The Ottawa Citizen 2008

and maybe a tourist train for good measure....

Hawkesbury mayor makes pitch for operating steam train in Eastern Ontario
Charlebois seeks investors to buy grounded Wakefield train to boost area's economy
Dave Rogers, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Friday, August 22, 2008

The mayor of Hawkesbury wants investors to operate the Hull-Chelsea-Wakefield steam train in Eastern Ontario to create a "motor of economic development" for the town.

Mayor Jeanne Charlebois met André Groulx, the train operator, earlier this week to discuss operating the train on the track that carries Ottawa Central Railway freight and Via Rail passenger trains.

She has also consulted Ottawa Central Railway officials about the possibility, she said.

Mrs. Charlebois said the train could stop in L'Orignal, Hawkesbury, Vankleek Hill and at the Glengarry Highland Games in Maxville.

The steam train has been parked since May, when a landslide near the track forced the business to close. Since then, the owners of the train have put the operation up for sale and say they have received half a dozen interesting offers. The asking price is $2.5 million.

Mr. Groulx, who has run the train for his father-in-law, Jean Gauthier, for 14 years, said he will probably have to sell the train to a buyer from the U.S. or somewhere else in Canada. He added he has two serious offers from buyers who want to operate the train outside the Outaouais.

The three municipalities that own the tracks for the Hull-Chelsea-Wakefield steam train have rejected an offer from a buyer interested in operating the train in the Outaouais, increasing the chances that the train will leave the region.

"We are trying to find business people or investors in the Ottawa-Gatineau region who would be interested in buying the train because there is a track here," Mrs. Charlebois said. "It would be better if the train stayed in the region instead of going elsewhere in Canada or to the United States."

Mrs. Charlebois said the train could run on CN Rail and Via Rail track to the Glengarry Highland Games in Maxville and to Limoges 35 kilometres east of Ottawa, which will be the location of the $50-million Valcartier Village Vacations water park. (CN owns some of the rail lines that carry VIA trains.)

"Can you imagine going from Hawkesbury to the Tulip Festival by steam train for the day and then returning home?" Mrs. Charlebois asked.

"The train could eventually travel between Montreal and Ottawa if Via Rail agreed.

"This would be an extraordinary asset for our region in tourism and economic development, creating 100 jobs over six months of the year. It would be a natural link to all the attractions in our area. We could even have special trains for Halloween and Christmas."

© The Ottawa Citizen 2008

Aylmer

Aug 22, 2008, 12:11 PM

Woah!

:)
:)
:)
:)

lrt's friend

Sep 10, 2008, 3:08 PM

September 10, 2008

Pembroke kicks in cash for commuter trainCity to pay share of trial run for Valley-to-Ottawa route
By STEPHEN UHLER, Sun Media

PEMBROKE - The City of Pembroke is willing to pay up to $1,500 to take part in the trial run of a commuter train between the Upper Ottawa Valley and Ottawa.

The Oct. 5 trial, will see a group of community leaders from Renfrew and Pontiac Counties take a train ride between Ottawa and Beachburg and back, to test the viability of a regular commuter route.

The $10,000 cost of the trip is being split between the Pontiac and Renfrew County, which will each kick in $5,000. Each county in turn will be asking participating municipalities to help out. "There is no budget for this," Pembroke Deputy Mayor Les Scott said. "Our cost could be anywhere from $700 to $800 all the way up to $1,200, depending on who else joins in."

Although the trial run does not run as far as Pembroke, Scott said this is only designed to see how practical the idea of a regular commuter run would be. If successful, the route could be expanded to include Pembroke -- which would also open up the Petawawa region.

"This will indicate if it is worth doing at all, and if it will provide good service to the people of this area," he said.

Coun. Cheryl Lowe said a train route would be beneficial, as it is no longer convenient to get to Ottawa by bus.

"A lot of seniors are unable to drive to Ottawa," she said, so this is a worthwhile idea to investigate.

A regional commuter train was first proposed by Ottawa mayor Larry O'Brien, and since then has grabbed the imaginations of councils and economic development groups on both the Ontario and Quebec sides of the Ottawa River.

The Pontiac Community Futures Development Corporation based out of Shawville is a strong backer of regional rail.

The group has been behind a proposal to have the commuter train weave between the provinces to cover sections of both the Pontiac and Renfrew County.

In Renfrew County, Whitewater Region has been strongly supportive of the concept, with councillors seeing great opportunity and potential benefits for the municipality. Joining in to explore the idea is Renfrew, Arnprior, Pembroke and communities within the Pontiac including Bristol.

The train leaves Ottawa at 10 a. m. Oct. 5, heads to Beachburg and returns to Ottawa by 4 p. m.

.

waterloowarrior

Nov 4, 2008, 5:34 AM

CN buys Ottawa rail line
By Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Mon, Nov 3, 2008 5:00 PM EST

Ottawa Business Journal
The Ottawa Central Railway is among four properties that Montreal-based railway giant CN is buying from the Quebec Railway Corp. (QRC) for $49.8 million.

CN said today it has acquired three principal railway subsidiaries of the QRC, along with a rail-freight ferry operation, giving CN back the 540 track miles of rail line it formerly owned in eastern Ontario, eastern Quebec and northern New Brunswick, as well as a ferry service on the St. Lawrence River in eastern Quebec.

CN had sold the rail lines to QRC in the lates 1990s and has held a minority equity interest in the ferry operation since its startup in 1975, the company said.

The OCR runs between Coteau, Que., where it interchanges with CN, and Pembroke Ont., as well as serving Hawkesbury. Between Coteau and Ottawa, the OCR operates over VIA Rail trackage.

The other properties CN is buying are the Chemin de fer de la Matapedia et du Golfe, which has 221 miles of track from Quebec to New Brunswick, the 196-mile-long New Brunswick East Coast Railway, and the Compagnie de gestion de Matane Inc., which provides shuttle boat-rail freight service on the St. Lawrence River between Matane and Baie-Comeau, Que.

CN said it will be investing in the properties over the next three years to upgrade their rail lines and replace their existing locomotive fleet with "more modern motive power."

http://cnplus.cn.ca/it/Shortlines/SL_Static.nsf/a8d3944425a92f0b852566c2006bf1b6/94c1ebff5337b6be8625679800508f11/Body/257.350E?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

eemy

Nov 4, 2008, 2:27 PM

The article is correct, but the map is rather deceptive. My understanding is that VIA owns the tracks from Smith Falls, ON to Coteau, QC.

waterloowarrior

Nov 4, 2008, 5:36 PM

yeah I think the map includes track that the railway has some kind of right to use, not necessarily owns

ikerrin

Nov 5, 2008, 11:04 PM

I think that the whole press release is incorrect, it doesn't say anything about buying the track to ensure that it doesn't fall into passengers hands.

Deez

Nov 5, 2008, 11:38 PM

This is quite the longshot, but does anybody think this might be a signal that CN believes it could operate a profitable passenger rail service some time in the near-ish future?

My understanding (though not backed up with any significant research) is that a good chunk of Via's unprofitability stems from having to pay CN and CP to use their tracks for passenger rail. Passenger rail service run by the actual owner of the tracks wouldn't have to worry about these fees and could run at a much higher level of service if the demand is there. That said, there are a wackload of capital and maintenance issues associated with starting a passenger railway, and without a reliable market, it doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon.

But a man can dream.

c_speed3108

Nov 6, 2008, 2:14 PM

c_speed3108

Nov 6, 2008, 3:53 PM

Rural transit is growing...

This is a bit like Clarence-Rockland Transit...it will be called "Transit Eastern Ontario".... http://www.teo-eot.ca/

http://www.teo-eot.ca/images/Routes%20553-557%20Map%20V2%2003-Nov-08.jpg

Major expansion to Glengarry-to-Ottawa Bus Service

By DAVID NESSETH, Sun Media

CORNWALL - A North Glengarry-to-Ottawa commuter bus service expected to move some 500 people a day is on the road after three years of planning.

The North Glengarry Prescott-Russell Transport Board launched the motor coach network this week in St-Albert, St-Isidore and Maxville at Highland Rd. near Highway 417. The villages of Casselman, Limoges and Crysler benefit from upgrades to existing services.

Board members and 417 Bus Lines representatives were on some of the first buses out to provide information, answer questions and note any adjustments needed.

"There are still wait lists for certain runs, so we have to work on satisfying that remaining user demand," spokeswoman Mary McCuaig told reporters. "We worked very hard to set up these services but we believe that the basic framework is in place. We are open to suggestions from users for improvements with the final adjustment of schedules at the end of November."

There's already been one route change.

Route no. 556 has been extended beyond Place du Portage Phase IV to Tunney's Pasture in the morning and will start at Tunney's in the afternoon and run via Place du Portage. The board is also considering an extension to Alexandria, where there are plans to install a park-and-ride lot at the Alexandria VIA station.

The public transit system will replace routes previously operated by 417 Bus Lines, a private commuter service which carried some 350 riders each day.

Bus stop signs and shelters will be installed in the near future once the board has hired a manager for the bus service.

The new transit lines are expected to complement, not replace, a long-range plan to expand Ottawa's light rail service to North Glengarry communities like Maxville and Alexandria, said Terry Hart, the township's planning manager.

To sign up for the commuter service, call the transportation board at 1-613-764-5444 X 222

p_xavier

Nov 6, 2008, 5:30 PM

I can't see CN being interested in passenger service as such, but if it looks like the track might have a larger customer base than it becomes a good buy since the revenue might increase.

I can't see it either. They'd rather lease the tracks, that's where they make their money. I still find it silly that they only paid $50M for all these tracks. Which, in 30 years, will need to be rented at 10x the costs.

waterloowarrior

Apr 4, 2009, 6:20 PM

VIA Rail working with Smiths Falls on commuter transit
Written by Ian Sutton
Monday, 09 February 2009
Smiths Falls Mayor Dennis Staples says a commuter rail transit service connecting the town with Ottawa continues be a viable possibility.
In an interview with Lake88, Staples said VIA Rail is studying whether existing rail lines -- with added sidings -- can accommodate additional traffic and the need to add more cars for a commuter link with Ottawa and other Eastern Ontario destinations.

Staples says he’s in constant communication with VIA Rail President Paul Cote and other Eastern Ontario mayors regarding the possibility of commuter rail service, with the anticipated economic benefits to the town other area municipalities.

Meanwhile, Staples said interest has been shown by as many as nine companies in locating at the vacated Hershey, Stanley Tools or other industrial properties in Smiths Falls. Smiths Falls Council, Staples says, is also looking forward to working with the town’s newly-formed Economic Development Advisory Board.

http://lake88.ca/lake88/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=253&Itemid=31

VIA confirms plans to relocate Smiths Falls station
Written by Lake 88 News Staff
Wednesday, 18 March 2009
VIA Rail has confirmed that Smiths Falls will be getting a new train station, though the exact location hasn't been announced.
An announcement from VIA said the new station will be east of the station's current Victoria Street site.

A location is expected to be announced as soon as this summer. The announcement was part of an update on $10 million being spent to improve infrastructure along the Via Rail lines between Smiths Falls, Ottawa, Montreal and Ottawa.

Upgrades to date on VIA's network include a $12.5 million investment in the Alexandria Subdivision, between Ottawa and Montreal as well as similar improvements currently underway on the Smiths Falls Subdivision between Toronto and Ottawa.

In addition, major renovations worth some $500,000 were made to the Ottawa station, which will allow VIA to serve customers more efficiently and will address operational and safety needs.

VIA Rail Canada Inc. recently completed $13 million worth of infrastructure improvements in the Ottawa area to provide faster, more reliable service. The national passenger railroad spent $12.5 million to upgrade track in the Alexandria Subdivision, between Ottawa and Montreal.

Similar work is under way in the Smiths Falls Subdivision, between Toronto and Ottawa.

lrt's friend

Jun 20, 2009, 3:53 AM

It was reported on the late TV news that funding is being made available to study the feasibility of re-instating passenger rail service between Ottawa and Pembroke. The report suggested that they will studying more than just commuter service as they will be also be looking at the tourist potential and whether the rail line could help improve the economy of the upper Ottawa Valley and make the area more attractive to employers in the future. So, there is the potential for multiple return trips each day. With the population of the Pembroke-Petawawa area exceeding 30,000, this is the largest community in Eastern Ontario outside of Ottawa-Gatineau with a direct rail connection.

eternallyme

Jun 20, 2009, 5:59 PM

What is the ridership potential along there? I know service was cut in 1990 there.

Combined with extending Highway 417 (badly needed) up the Valley, it would definitely help out. Too bad the ridership potential beyond Petawawa is very little until North Bay, or it could be extended even farther.

The commuter network, in the short to middle term, should be bus-based though, with more frequent buses and direct connections/transfers to OC Transpo, with ability to use bus lanes and Transitways (until converted to LRT). Essentially, treat it as part of the same system but funded primarily by adjacent municipalities (and rural Ottawa).

lrt's friend

Jun 21, 2009, 3:26 AM

p_xavier

Jun 21, 2009, 1:01 PM

I think the purpose the study is to determine the ridership potential. When you consider the location of the rail line, which skips both Arnprior and Renfrew, this line will have to capture more than just peak period commuters, you would think. Are we now starting to see the possibility of a resurgance in general passenger rail interest? Are people starting to tire of driving on increasingly busy highways with more and more large trucks and aggressive drivers?

Another issue with this is you can't increase road indefinitely while increasing rail. It doubles the costs for no reason.

I was suprirse to see a Via Rail station for Limoges in an old picture, I hadn't notice that before.

Dado

Jun 22, 2009, 4:22 AM

What is the ridership potential along there? I know service was cut in 1990 there.
Service was cut because the transcontinental trains ceased using that route at that time. There are smaller places than Pembroke that have service that happen to lie on the lines between large cities while larger towns and even cities (e.g. Peterborough, even Calgary!) go without altogether. For smaller communities it's a crapshoot based on historical accident and politicking whether they have VIA service or not.

Combined with extending Highway 417 (badly needed) up the Valley, it would definitely help out. Too bad the ridership potential beyond Petawawa is very little until North Bay, or it could be extended even farther.

The commuter network, in the short to middle term, should be bus-based though, with more frequent buses and direct connections/transfers to OC Transpo, with ability to use bus lanes and Transitways (until converted to LRT). Essentially, treat it as part of the same system but funded primarily by adjacent municipalities (and rural Ottawa).

The line is up for abandonment, so putting off commuter rail to a distant future isn't a realistic option. Either a commuter rail service is to be established to prevent CN from getting rid of the line, or the line is acquired from CN, or the tracks get lifted by CN. This isn't something that can wait for years and years. Once the tracks are up, putting them back in will be a lot more expensive and time consuming.

eternallyme

Jun 22, 2009, 12:55 PM

lrt's friend

Jun 22, 2009, 8:00 PM

eternallyme

Jun 23, 2009, 12:31 AM

hmmm, one of the reasons given for the commuter rail service is to stimulate the economy of the upper Ottawa River Valley. As it stands, it is a depressed region, and if we are waiting for population growth as a condition for bringing back passenger rail, we will be waiting forever.

That wouldn't be commuter rail though - after all it is about 150 km from Pembroke to Ottawa, and virtually no one commutes that distance. Ridership potential is way too low as well in that direction. Starting it in Arnprior has solid merit, combined with the 417 extension and lower housing costs should result in very strong growth there.

Any rail line in that direction would also not remove nearly enough traffic to prevent any expansion of Highway 17 (which is already over capacity to Renfrew, and near capacity to beyond Petawawa).

One last thing - it is a very conservative area (i.e. Alabama North), and I don't think they want the explosive growth of Ottawa to reach the Upper Valley.

Dado

Jun 23, 2009, 2:46 AM

The OVR line is still quite active, so it is only a matter of preserving the line up to connecting there. It should be protected, but not implemented, until population grows considerably in the Ottawa Valley to warrant such. Acquiring from CN is probably the best solution.

Err... OVR just laid off dozens of employees since CP has decided not to run their Montreal traffic through there for the time being. There had been some arguments on line maintenance as well.

CN doesn't own the line to Arnprior. They abandoned that in the 1990s and its ownership is now a bit convoluted. From Nepean Junction in the west Greenbelt to Arnprior the land on which the line lies is owned by the City of Ottawa (formerly the RMOC) while the tracks themselves are owned by a chemical plant in Arnprior. The line itself ends some 500 m short of the OVR tracks and are not connected ever since CN's bridge over the Madawaska burned. A new connecting track could be built however. OCR and now CN provides the locomotive power on the line.

The line to be abandoned is the one from Nepean Junction through Fitzroy, over to Quebec and back into Ontario, through Beachburg and ultimately Pembroke.

That wouldn't be commuter rail though - after all it is about 150 km from Pembroke to Ottawa, and virtually no one commutes that distance. Ridership potential is way too low as well in that direction. Starting it in Arnprior has solid merit, combined with the 417 extension and lower housing costs should result in very strong growth there.

There's an enormous obstacle to carrying out your idea: the line (well, the land under it) to Arnprior is owned by the anti-rail City of Ottawa. Any plan to use that line would need the cooperation of the City of Ottawa and, given that no transit officials even showed up for the demonstration run last October, that cooperation will likely not be too forthcoming. Folks in Arnprior and Renfrew have a better chance of getting to Ottawa by train via Pembroke or Smiths Falls than via Kanata.

Aylmer

Jul 1, 2009, 3:26 PM

Does anyone know how feasible a Bayview-Wakefield, Buckingham train would be (regarding turns, max speed...)?
I think that it would cost very little to set up a pilot project considering that the tracks (and even some stations) already exist.

Has a study into this already been done?

:)

p_xavier

Jul 1, 2009, 3:29 PM

lrt's friend

Jul 12, 2009, 3:59 AM

p_xavier

Jul 12, 2009, 12:03 PM

After taking the steam train to Wakefield, I would say that this rail line is simply impractical for use for commuter rail. The speed limit on the track is simply too low to make for reasonable trip times, and I expect that this is partially determined by the the high number of level crossings with limited sight lines and only controlled with stop signs. In some cases, the level crossings cannot be eliminated as they may provide the only access. Perhaps, speed limits can be increased but this may require automatic gates at all level crossings even if its a private laneway.

That rail line needs millions in renovations, I doubt it will ever be used besides the stream train, and even there, it was closed most of last year. There is not much commuter population around that line either, which is not the case for the RapiBus rail line.

waterloowarrior

Jul 15, 2009, 11:43 AM

Municipalities want rail traffic in the valley
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1656590
TRAIN TRAVEL: Trying to keep the tracks

Posted By STEPHEN UHLER SUHLER@THEDAILYOBSERVER.CA

Posted 37 mins ago

Municipal councils and interested people on both sides of the Ottawa River agree they don't want the railway tracks running through the Ottawa Valley scrapped.

Representatives of both Renfrew County and MRC Pontiac councils, the City of Pembroke, along with staff, VIPs, economic development people and other interested parties gathered Tuesday morning to meet with members of the joint rail transport committee, which has been working to get a commuter train in the region.

While acknowledging there remains a lot of work and millions of dollars in investment to make it happen, the committee's top priority now is to convince the Canadian National Railway not to tear up the 130-km stretch of track linking the region to Ottawa.

This section, known as the Beachburg subdivision, has been placed on the list of lines the railway wants to abandon.

Louise Donaldson, executive director of SADC Pontiac Community Futures, who, with its counterpart the Community Futures Development Corporation of Renfrew County, are spearheading the effort, said the news CN was looking to abandon the line within six months caught the group off guard, forcing it to scramble in order to head off the attempt.

In order to do that, she said, the committee needed to show interest it wants to purchase the rails and to get that kind of clout, has applied to Industry Canada to form the Transport Pontiac-Renfrew corporation.

"It is the threat to economic development for our regions and the commuter train which is the prime motivation for this meeting," Ms. Donaldson said, stressing it is important to preserve the tracks and not just for the potential future of a commuter train.

"It is very difficult if not impossible to sell an area to industry without rail," she said.

Ted Barron, the chairman of Renfrew County's Community Futures and the head of the rail committee, said no one wants the line to become abandoned, as once it is gone, it will never come back.

"It took a hundred years to get the rails laid down and I hope we don't lose them now," he said. "That's our life and breath."

The joint rail committee pushed ahead with this because of the tight 90-day time-line to respond to the abandonment announcement. It was hoping for both county councils to officially endorse the efforts to enter talks with CN by passing a resolution before the end of Tuesday's information meeting.

However, neither county was comfortable with this, feeling they needed to bring the matter before their full councils for endorsement.

MRC Pontiac Warden Mike McCrank said he knows this is an urgent matter, but said they need to take this back to their respective councils before they approve it.

"Here, we're a group of concerned citizens" attending an information session, he said, with no authority to make such a decision.

Warden McCrank said MRC Pontiac council is meeting Thursday to discuss other matters, so he can present this motion then.

Admaston/Bromley Township Mayor Raye-Anne Briscoe said there is no way she can support this before bringing it before Renfrew County council, agreeing with deputy clerk Jim Kutschke they didn't have the mandate to do so.

"We only have three out of 17 county council representatives here now," she said. Mayor Briscoe said she is concerned if the majority of council decides to reject this endorsement, the county would be forced to withdraw, perhaps damaging the effort beyond repair.

"I don't want to bring grief to the project," she said. "I'm just asking for the time to do this right."

The next scheduled meeting for county council is the end of August, before which the matter has to go through the development and property committee.

Warden McCrank said he feels that isn't a problem, as he expects MRC Pontiac to back the resolution this week. Renfrew County can join in later.

The idea of a commuter rail service has been gaining steam since last fall following a successful pilot run between Beachburg and Ottawa on Oct. 5, 2008, which led to local municipal leaders on both sides of the Ottawa River signing a joint statement with Ottawa city council.

This began the planning process for the project, as well as urging the federal and provincial governments to help by smoothing out regulatory approvals and seeking funding which might be available.

An online survey was also launched to gauge interest in a regular commuter service.

Harry Gow, the founder of Transport 2000 in Canada and a technical advisor for the project, told those gathered at Tuesday's meeting the interest is definitely there. Out of an estimated 6,000 who commute regularly to Ottawa, more than 600 took the time to answer the survey, with the majority of them in favour of a regular train service.

He said if done in conjunction with a nightly freight service, this can be made viable, with ticket prices kept to levels comparable to a regular bus route, with single one-way tickets ranging from $10 to $15 depending on where the rider boards the train.

To get it going won't be cheap. Based on the initial pilot project study, it is estimated start up costs will be $6.8 million in the first year, including operational expenses and upgrading infrastructure and the rail stations. In the second year the cost could be $3.3 million and in the third year $3.5 million to finish things up.

James Allen, president and CEO of JDA Consulting, who is another member of the rail development team, said this investment is considerable, but one has to remember the assets themselves will last 20 to 40 years.

If sufficient freight customers can be secured, these revenues will be of help in keeping the rail service running, he said, and securing government funding will also help make this a reality.

The exact cost it will take to do and what will be required from both counties hasn't been determined.

Mr. Gow said the next step once the body of the new nonprofit corporation is sorted out is to develop a business plan, looking into everything from auditing the tracks, switches, signals and crossings, figuring out how viable it is and marketing the system to determining the best way to attract tourists into riding the train.

All of this will have to be co-ordinated to link up to create a train system serving both Eastern Ontario and West Quebec.

"Lots of work has to be done," he said. "There is a place for regional carriers," but they will have to work hard to get and keep the business.

Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke MP Cheryl Gallant, invited to attend the meeting, said she feels this is a historic day, when the councils of both Renfrew and the Pontiac sat together to work things out for the betterment of both.

MP Gallant said the Pontiac's federal government representative MP Lawrence Cannon is also a strong supporter of this rail project and together she is sure they can lobby hard on its behalf.

The new Transport Pontiac-Renfrew was to have contacted CN Tuesday afternoon.

Stephen Uhler is a Daily Observer reporter

Article ID# 1656590

waterloowarrior

Jul 17, 2009, 9:42 PM

NOUVELLE DE L'HEURE
http://www.largenteuil.ca/home.jsp?id=8&section=news&news_item_id=16312

CASSELMAN MAYOR MEETS WITH VIA RAIL BOSS
15 JUIL. 2009
gregg.chamberlain@eap.on.ca
Casselman Mayor Conrad Lamadeleine remains optimistic that a full-service bus/train commuter system will be part of the region’s future soon and noted that a meeting next Monday between himself and VIA Rail President Paul Côté could result in several significant developments in the project.
“This is a very important discussion on Monday,” Lamadeleine said. “I’m just trying to open doors with VIA.”
The July 20 meeting will focus on possible commuter passenger numbers for the Ottawa-Montréal run and what engines and other rolling stock and equipment would be needed to carry the increased passenger load. Also on the discussion topic list is a proposal from Transit Eastern Ontario (TEO) to VIA about the potential for a regular tourist train run from Montréal to Limoges and back once the Calypso Park aquatic theme park is completed and open for business.
Lamadeleine noted that his own contacts in Québec’s tourism sector suggest that passenger numbers of up to 20,000 are a possibility for a regular run to Calypso Park and back. One of the TEO goals is to reduce the amount of vehicle traffic on local highways through developing a regional transit service and a Calypso Park tour train run would help prevent congestion on the 417 Highway going to Limoges.
TEO already has two special tourist train arrangements with VIA Rail. One is the Tulip Train in spring that provides transport into downtown Ottawa for those wishing to enjoy the annual Ottawa Tulip Festival. The other is the Highland Games Train, scheduled for Aug. 1 this year, which takes passengers to Maxville and back for the annual Glengarry Highland Games.

Retour

waterloowarrior

Oct 26, 2009, 6:08 PM

Corporation formed to help preserve rail tracks
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2143290
Posted By ANTHONY DIXON

Posted 3 days ago

WHITEWATER REGION - In an effort to keep the dream of an Ottawa Valley commuter rail line alive, the committee looking into the project has formed a corporation.

This according to Whitewater councillor Izett McBride, who delivered an update on the initiative to council during its most recent meeting.

The name of the not-for-profit corporation is Transport Pontiac-Renfrew. It was formed in July in an effort to keep CN Rail from ripping up the tracks that run from Ottawa, through the Pontiac and Renfrew counties to Pembroke.

Mr. McBridesaid Transport Pontiac-Renfrew is governed by a board of 12 members including two business representatives, two railway freight client representatives, one from Ontario and one from Quebec, members representing Renfrew County and Pontiac community futures, the Renfrew County warden, the warden of the Pontiac, Pembroke Mayor Ed Jacyno and three charter members.

CN has listed the 130 kmof track known as the Beachburg Subdivision among those lines it wants to abandon.

Those seeking to get a local train service going are moving quickly to head that effort off. The work to bring a local commuter/freight train to the valley has been spearheaded by SADC Pontiac Community Futures and its counterpart, the Community Futures Development Corporation of Renfrew County.

The two groups are using government funding to pay for the costs of studying the feasibility of this idea.

Time is running out, as CN could begin lifting the tracks next spring. Mr. McBride said freight users of the rails have become involved as they are worried about losing this crucial link. Some of these freight users include a pellet plant at Bristol, ATC Panels in Pembroke and a pulp mill that is up for sale in Quebec. That mill could lose significant value if it lost its rail link, according to Mr. McBride.

"This is a serious economic development issue," Mr. McBride said. "If they remove that rail line, we will never get it back. There's a lot riding on this."

He said the cost to purchase the rail line is estimated at about $6 million.

Renfrew County warden Don Rathwell said the rail project will likely come up again at Whitewater council in November. In the interim, work continues on involving provincial and federation politicians on both sides of the Ottawa River.

Advertisement

Everyone is feeling the pressure as the clock continues to count down.

"If we don't find a way to do this, if we just sit back and it goes, then we lose rail in the Upper Ottawa Valley," Warden Rathwell warned. "We have to think about those coming behind us, the young people. If there's not rail, there's not much future for the Upper Ottawa Valley."

He is concerned about the economic ramifications to area manufacturers from the removal of the tracks.

Mr. McBride estimated that it cost roughly four times as much to ship by truck as it does by rail, which is a concern to freight users already hit hard by the economic crisis.

Warden Rathwell would like to see some infrastructure money from the provincial and federal governments spent on this project.

"Our people that work in forestry and our farmers are suffering. Lots of infrastructure money has been poured into southern Ontario and Toronto, but there are not as many votes here," he said.

Mr. McBride estimated a ticket for passenger service from Pembroke to Ottawa would cost $15.

Anthony Dixon is a Daily Observer reporter

More Rail Talk in Whitewater Region

Sat, 24 Oct 2009 9:11:03 EDT

If Queen's Park, The Quebec National Assembly and Ottawa all kick in to help pay for setting up a locally run rail service between Ottawa and Pembroke - passengers using the commuter system could expect a trip to cost about $15. That would make the service affordable for passengers and similarly freight could be carried for about 25 per cent of the cost of trucking. Renfrew Warden Don Rathwell sees the issue as one of prime importance to both the Pontiac and Renfrew County. Otherwise he predicts a long and slow economic decline as industries move away and new residents are discourgaed by a lack of local jobs and long, expensive commutes by car to Ottawa.
Rathwell thinks the inital cost of buying the line from CN, which has given notice it plans to abandon the Beachburg Subdivision, and purchasing the equipment to run a railway could be split among the various upper levels of government. He suggests that Quebec and Ontario should each kick in 25 per cent - while the federal government should put up 50 per cent.

eternallyme

Nov 13, 2009, 5:31 AM

Revisiting the issue, I came up with a thought that I posted in the Rapid Transit Discussion forum that re-uses the existing Transitway (to ideally shift the LRT to a parallel alignment) between Campus and Hurdman to become a rail corridor. That is probably the only way trains could easily reach downtown Ottawa without a transfer.

I also thought of all the possible regional rail lines that could be built in the long term. None are currently warranted, but the ROW should be kept for all of them. Some of them could be warranted well before 2035, especially if population growth takes place.

A commuter bus network should immediately be implemented on all these corridors though, with full rights and transfers of OC Transpo service and with a funding agreement as part of the route within the City of Ottawa outside the UTA would be treated the same as an OC Transpo rural express route (not the case now). Fares would be the rural express fare + the locally-set fare when the municipal boundary is crossed.

OCR/OVR: Bells Corners - Kanata - Carp - Kinburn - Galetta - Arnprior - (Renfrew?)

Former CPR/OVR: Bells Corners - Kanata - Stittsville - Ashton - Carleton Place - (Almonte?)

CNR/VIA/CPR: Barrhaven - Richmond - Smiths Falls - (Perth?)

Former CPR: Greely - Osgoode - Kemptville - (Merrickville?)

Former O&NY: Ramsayville - Edwards - Russell - Embrun

CNR/VIA: Carlsbad Springs - Vars - Limoges - Casselman

(Missing link: Orleans - Cumberland - Rockland - (Plantaganet?) - no real corridor along 174/17E)

QGRY: Gatineau - Masson/Buckingham - Thurso - Plaisance - Papineauville - Montebello

HCW: Chelsea - Wakefield - (Low?)

eternallyme

Nov 13, 2009, 3:25 PM

We should continue the commuter rail discussion here. I posted in the other thread since it requires a relocation of the LRT plans (and just a thought on how to re-use the Transitway as opposed to opening it to general traffic), but I didn't expect the entire discussion to be there.

Aylmer

Nov 13, 2009, 3:52 PM

Aylmer should be served by LRT in the ultimate network. There is no real corridor or catchment area that could be used for commuter rail in the northwest direction, although a commuter bus along 148 would be ideal.

This would change the growth plan, since the Ottawa region could grow like spokes on a wheel in the next 50 years and beyond...and any expansion of the urban region should follow those spokes. Conveniently, most of those nodes are where the highways are as well - 174/17E, 417E, 416S, 7W, 417W, 5N, 50E.

Based on population and ease of construction, here is the order in which I think they will be warranted:

-QGRY corridor to Montebello
-Former CPR corridor to Carleton Place
-CNR/VIA corridor to Casselman
-OCR corridor to Arnprior
-Missing link to Rockland
-Former CPR corridor to Kemptville
-HCW corridor to Wakefield
-Former O&NY corridor to Embrun
-CNR/VIA corridor to Smiths Falls

Actually, Aylmer had a RR until 1991. It's actually in my backyard! The only problem is that many people now live very close to it and there are a couple of parks that are now on it. It's also used a lot by pedestrians who want to get from Queen's park or the marina to Wychwood or even lower Vanier Rd.

I see LRT going down Principale either in the median, or, in old Aylmer, on the sides (it would replace the parking) or sharing the road with the few cars that pass by there then turning up on Front St. to get to Allumetières. It would get people from the North-East, the brownstone neighborhood, Front st., Old Aylmer and Glenwood.

My dream...

eternallyme

Nov 13, 2009, 3:53 PM

Population estimates for 2035 and 2060 for communities which would have stations in the ultimate thought (these are just my guesses, and do not include the rural area surrounding which would add more to the populations.) For comparison, I expect the old City of Ottawa to grow very slowly in the time frames, about 0.2% a year on average with some years of very slight negative growth. These assume a village and town-focused growth plan with no expansion of the urban area except in the vicinity of the corridors (I cannot make assumptions for new station areas since the population of those now is zero), although they don't necessarily assume density.

2009 - 2035 - 2060

LINE 1 (also serves north Kanata)

Carp: 1,600 - 3,400 - 6,500
Kinburn: 270 - 600 - 1,400
Galetta: 160 - 400 - 800
Arnprior: 7,500 - 10,500 - 16,700
Renfrew: 7,800 - 8,200 - 9,500

LINE 2 (also serves south Kanata and Stittsville)

Carleton Place: 10,300 - 19,200 - 35,500
Almonte: 5,200 - 6,900 - 9,300

LINE 3 (also serves Barrhaven)

Richmond: 4,600 - 6,300 - 12,200
Smiths Falls: 8,600 - 8,900 - 11,400
Perth: 6,200 - 6,800 - 7,900

LINE 4 (also serves Leitrim)

Greely: 5,200 - 7,400 - 13,500
Osgoode: 2,900 - 3,600 - 7,200
Kemptville: 4,400 - 7,900 - 17,500
Merrickville: 1,200 - 1,400 - 2,600

LINE 5

Russell: 4,100 - 6,900 - 13,500
Embrun: 6,200 - 10,200 - 21,400

LINE 6

Carlsbad Springs: 240 - 500 - 1,300
Vars: 1,100 - 1,800 - 3,200
Limoges: 2,400 - 4,600 - 9,300
Casselman: 3,500 - 5,900 - 10,200

LINE 7 (could also serve Orleans, route undefined)

Cumberland Village: 1,800 - 2,700 - 4,200
Rockland: 9,500 - 16,200 - 32,500
Plantaganet: 1,200 - 1,600 - 2,900
Alfred: 1,400 - 2,000 - 3,500

LINE 8 (also serves Gatineau)

Buckingham: 14,500 - 20,900 - 29,600
Masson: 7,500 - 12,500 - 26,500
Thurso: 2,400 - 3,700 - 5,300
Plaisance: 1,100 - 1,700 - 2,800
Papineauville: 2,200 - 2,800 - 4,000
Montebello: 1,100 - 1,900 - 3,700

LINE 9

Chelsea: 6,500 - 11,400 - 16,500
Wakefield: 1,500 - 2,900 - 5,100

eternallyme

Nov 13, 2009, 3:54 PM

Actually, Aylmer had a RR until 1991. It's actually in my backyard! The only problem is that many people now live very close to it and there are a couple of parks that are now on it. It's also used a lot by pedestrians who want to get from Queen's park or the marina to Wychwood or even lower Vanier Rd.

I see LRT going down Principale either in the median, or, in old Aylmer, on the sides (it would replace the parking) or sharing the road with the few cars that pass by there then turning up on Front St. to get to Allumetières. It would get people from the North-East, the brownstone neighborhood, Front st., Old Aylmer and Glenwood.

My dream...

Personally, I think that railway through Aylmer should be the LRT line - it would serve the downtown area very well, plus some communities in Hull and the UQO. However, that is probably one of the last lines that would be built - but the ROW should be set aside for it.

eternallyme

Nov 13, 2009, 4:03 PM

eemy

Nov 13, 2009, 5:31 PM

I think your projections are a tad optimistic, maybe not for the larger communities, but definitely for the small villages. These places usually only grow very incrementally, if at all.

eternallyme

Nov 13, 2009, 8:35 PM

I think your projections are a tad optimistic, maybe not for the larger communities, but definitely for the small villages. These places usually only grow very incrementally, if at all.

My thinking is that when commuter rail becomes available in the smaller communities, 1 or 2 new larger housing developments will appear in each of them and they will become a core part of the growing communities. Each of them would add 1,000 or more people. That is especially true for those without freeway access. Until that happens, I expect very slow growth (and that is assumed in the 2035 numbers for communities that the rail will not reach at the time and without freeway access).

The larger communities might be a bit conservative, as they would be transformed into urban subcentres of the region. Most of them would likely see first growth (if they haven't already) on freeway access, which would require commuter buses. Commuter rail would likely provide a second growth spurt.

This assumes that growth in the current Ottawa suburbs slows down eventually once built out (but remains decent) and the urban core areas grow only have slow growth.

cityguy

Nov 14, 2009, 2:57 AM

eternallyme

Nov 14, 2009, 3:13 AM

I don't really understand the rural commuter rail project,is Ottawa station the main terminal?it's no where near downtown.In most large cities it's always in the heart of the city,close to a larger office area.

The current vague plans suggest that. However, I recommend using the old Union Station (now the Government Conference Centre), with a tunnel to the existing Transitway near Campus Station, using the existing Transitway to Hurdman (the LRT should be completely separated) and then to a diamond with the existing Ottawa Central Railway tracks. The current Ottawa Station would be decommissioned as VIA Rail could also serve the (old) new station. Since my recommended LRT station in the area is at the Mackenzie King Bridge, it would require about a 3.5% grade descent between Elgin Street and the Mackenzie King Bridge as the LRT would need to be about 20 metres below the surface to clear the commuter rail tunnel in the same area (shallower tunnel), and the Slater Street area tunnel would be about 5 metres below the surface.

Kitchissippi

Nov 14, 2009, 3:20 AM

I think your projections are a tad optimistic, maybe not for the larger communities, but definitely for the small villages. These places usually only grow very incrementally, if at all.

My thoughts as well. Global population is supposed to peak by mid-century (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1108-global-population-to-peak-in-2070.html), and considering they are predicting 50% population growth from now until then, I doubt Ottawa area communities could outdo the global average.

lrt's friend

Nov 14, 2009, 5:00 AM

Of all those corridors, the one that could be most problematic is the Rockland area line. Population should eventually warrant it for sure (within 20 years probably), but there is no abandoned corridor.

I can think of two possibilities:

1) Abandoned CPR corridor to the hydro corridor, then along the hydro corridor (shared ROW with the Cumberland Transitway) before a diagonal route to the south sides of Cumberland and Rockland.

2) Abandoned CPR corridor to Navan (adds Notre-Dame-des-Champs and Navan to the catchment area) before a sharp turn north to Rockland. Would have longer travel time from the east.

Here is information on the two railways that once served Rockland

The CNR L'Orignal subdivision abandoned in 1939 that connected Ottawa with Rockland and Hawkesbury. http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dagar/cno/lorignal.htm
You can see a rock cut on the south side of the Queensway as you travel east from Montreal Road interchange. Between Orleans and Rockland, the highway more or less runs on the old right of way.

The CNR Hammond subdivision abandoned in the 1930s that connected Limoges with Rockland and Clarence Creek.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dagar/car/car.htm

Also, until 1946, the Hull Electric streetcar line to Aylmer ran adjacent to the CPR rail line

eternallyme

Nov 14, 2009, 3:56 PM

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7953/downtowneast.jpg

The LRT part is mentioned in the other thread, but the rail parts are relevant here. The line on the map represents 2 tracks, which widens out to at least 6-8 at Union Station.

7 - The Government Conference Centre would be revived as Union Station. VIA Rail would also serve the station. There would need to be at least 6-8 underground tracks (at least 1-2 reserved for VIA), and tail tracks (dotted lines) which could extend to Gatineau via the Alexandra Bridge.

8 - The tracks would narrow down to two before reaching the tunnel portal. The tunnel would be about 5-12 metres below the surface, between the surface and the LRT tracks.

9 - The tunnel portal would be at the Transitway curve.

10 - The trains would use the existing Transitway. There would be no stations along the section.

11 (not shown) - At Hurdman station, an elevated rail alignment would cross the redevelopment lands, leading to a diamond at the current Lycee Claudel school.

12 (not shown) - Lycee Claudel school would be expropriated, but a new school would be built in the Hurdman development lands at the same time, at the rail project's expenses.

Note: the regional rail project does not need to be done at the same time as LRT, but the corridors should be reserved. The existing Ottawa station would be closed. It's pretty much "back to the future" for rail in Ottawa.

Aylmer

Nov 14, 2009, 5:30 PM

That would be Awesomeness Incarnated! I have always said that we should bring trains downtown VIA (ha!ha!pun!) a tunnel.

:)

eternallyme

Nov 14, 2009, 5:37 PM

That would be Awesomeness Incarnated! I have always said that we should bring trains downtown VIA (ha!ha!pun!) a tunnel.

:)

Except only about 2 km of the route (including the tail track) is in a tunnel. Releasing the Transitway (instead of re-using it per the official plan) would open up a corridor for it.

Aylmer

Nov 14, 2009, 9:09 PM

Except only about 2 km of the route (including the tail track) is in a tunnel. Releasing the Transitway (instead of re-using it per the official plan) would open up a corridor for it.

I know! It's the least costly way to go.

:)

eternallyme

Nov 14, 2009, 9:33 PM

I know! It's the least costly way to go.

:)

I wonder if anyone at the City of Ottawa is reading this? I'm going to look into submitting that to the plan to relocate the LRT to preserve the corridor.

It would be MUCH cheaper than having to build a tunnel 3-4 km longer and under the Rideau River - that could easily cost $500 million extra, which is easily more than the extra expense for about 800m more of tunnelled LRT (which itself is compensated by going cut-and-cover in the downtown core). The only expenses outside the station area itself are the tracks, a grade separation at Riverside Drive (under Riverside and the Transitway/LRT) and a relocation of Lycee Claudel School.

It is also designed to easily be extended to Gatineau - the tunnel would extend under Major's Hill Park, emerge in time to enter the Alexandra Bridge - as the existing bridge can only accomodate a single track, the hanging deck would need to be paved and stabilized, but still would result in the loss of traffic flow unless another deck is added - the bicycle/pedestrian bridge should remain as is) and then surface, tunnel or combinations options across Hull Island to join the QGRY corridor.

Kitchissippi

Nov 15, 2009, 4:15 AM

You forget though that VIA trains are all diesel. Putting them in a lengthy tunnel with an underground station will be a problem.

It would be so much cheaper to just make VIA tickets valid on the LRT for same day travel. Likewise, if commuter rail was set up, it would be an incentive if day pass privileges were included in the ticket. Then it wouldn't matter if the train station remained where it is.

In a related circumstance, in Vancouver, some SkyTrain stations have YVR check-in, so you are good to go when you get to the airport.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2579/3832883430_01e4f4f166_b.jpg

eternallyme

Nov 15, 2009, 7:04 PM

Fare integration between the commuter rail and normal OC Transpo service would always be a part of the plan. The issue was eliminating the fact that a transfer would be necessary for 90% of passengers, plus a much more convenient VIA Rail station location (thank the NCC for that).

Within the urban area, commuter rail stations would be located periodically - primarily at transfer points and at major employment areas (i.e. north Kanata). Outside the urban area, they would be located in communities and important junctions (potential Park and Ride or development locations), with a minimum station spacing of 5 km being desirable.

There are two options for setting fares:

1) Zone/distance based (for example, a trip to Kemptville from downtown Ottawa would be 49 km - likely requiring a Zone 5 fare for beyond 40 but under 50 km)

2) Zone/municipality based (for the same trip, it would require an OC Transpo rural express fare plus a fare set by North Grenville)

Dado

Nov 15, 2009, 7:50 PM

harls

Dec 18, 2009, 4:53 PM

just released..

FEDERAL CONTRIBUTION FOR TRANSPORT PONTIAC-RENFREW

An investment of up to $136,000 under the National Infrastructure Knowledge Component of the Building Canada Fund

Portage-du-Fort, Quebec, December 18, 2009 – The Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister responsible for the Outaouais and Member of Parliament for Pontiac, is pleased to announce today that the Government of Canada will provide Transport Pontiac-Renfrew with a contribution for a feasibility study under the National Infrastructure Knowledge Component (NIKC) of the Building Canada Fund (BCF).

This study will include a business case on the feasibility of a commuter train service between the regional county municipality of Pontiac, Renfrew County, and the City of Ottawa.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Canada'S-Economic-Action-Plan-1093313.html

eternallyme

Dec 18, 2009, 5:00 PM

just released..

Politics might be a factor (it is Cannon's riding after all), since IMO that is NOT one of the corridors that should be targeted. A route along the Beachburg Subdivision makes much more sense, since it serves a fairly large community (Arnprior) in between.

lrt's friend

Dec 18, 2009, 6:22 PM

Politics might be a factor (it is Cannon's riding after all), since IMO that is NOT one of the corridors that should be targeted. A route along the Beachburg Subdivision makes much more sense, since it serves a fairly large community (Arnprior) in between.

I am not sure what you are referring to but I believe we are talking about the Beachburg subdivision here. The track crosses into Quebec just this side of Arnprior and then crosses back near Portage du Fort and then travels through Beachburg and into Pembroke. The other line that used to go to Eganville and beyond has been abandoned beyond the east edge of Arnprior.

eternallyme

Dec 18, 2009, 7:20 PM

I am not sure what you are referring to but I believe we are talking about the Beachburg subdivision here. The track crosses into Quebec just this side of Arnprior and then crosses back near Portage du Fort and then travels through Beachburg and into Pembroke. The other line that used to go to Eganville and beyond has been abandoned beyond the east edge of Arnprior.

Oh, I got mixed up. I always thought Beachburg Sub went through Arnprior and (formerly) Renfrew.

Who owns the abandoned rail ROW's surrounding Ottawa - namely those going southwest to Carleton Place, south to Kemptville and southeast to Embrun?

Dado

Dec 18, 2009, 8:00 PM

Oh, I got mixed up. I always thought Beachburg Sub went through Arnprior and (formerly) Renfrew.

That's the Renfrew Sub.

Who owns the abandoned rail ROW's surrounding Ottawa - namely those going southwest to Carleton Place,

City of Ottawa to the Carleton Place town line; after that it's owned by the Town of Carleton Place and they've even planted a road on it.

south to Kemptville

City of Ottawa as far as Hwy 416; MTO owns the crossing of Hwy 416 (a major PITA); CPR probably owns everything south of there through Kemptville to the end of the track, after which of course they do own it.

and southeast to Embrun?
That's formerly the Ottawa & New York. CN acquired the line but who owns what now is a good question. Parts of it look to be owned by the MTO, for example.

There's one more corridor - the former CPR M&O heading east through Navan. It's my understanding that VIA owns this, though for how far I don't know since it's considerably less useful as an HSR RoW beyond Bourget.

eternallyme

Dec 18, 2009, 8:20 PM

City of Ottawa to the Carleton Place town line; after that it's owned by the Town of Carleton Place and they've even planted a road on it.

At least there is plenty of room to plant a single rail line there as far as the OVR line. A junction turning north is definitely doable, a junction turning south would be very difficult.

City of Ottawa as far as Hwy 416; MTO owns the crossing of Hwy 416 (a major PITA); CPR probably owns everything south of there through Kemptville to the end of the track, after which of course they do own it.

New grade separations would definitely be needed, at least at 416 and probably at County Road 43. At least the commercial development plan there kept the corridor open. IMO, the City of Ottawa (or joint Ottawa/North Grenville) should own it as far as the Bedell Road junction.

That's formerly the Ottawa & New York. CN acquired the line but who owns what now is a good question. Parts of it look to be owned by the MTO, for example.

I'm not sure either, as it has been long abandoned. The corridor seems fairly intact though so it wouldn't be difficult to lay a single track there.

There's one more corridor - the former CPR M&O heading east through Navan. It's my understanding that VIA owns this, though for how far I don't know since it's considerably less useful as an HSR RoW beyond Bourget.

IMO, that corridor from Navan to Bourget doesn't serve any real use for anything. However, it could provide alternate service to Navan and southern Orleans, and then hook back up towards Rockland and County Road 17 communities - even though unlike with the other areas, a whole new ROW would be needed - the only such corridor that requires such.

waterloowarrior

Dec 19, 2009, 9:30 PM

I looked up the Ottawa & New York corridor near Edwards in the assessment rolls once and IIRC it was owned by Bell Canada (although maybe it's actually only leased by them?)

Dado

Dec 21, 2009, 6:01 AM

:previous:

It looks like you're correct, based on this recent posting by David Jeanes:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Canadian-Passenger-Rail/message/57765

CN only really acquired it for its rails and short sections of the corridor in Ottawa and Cornwall; they were probably quite happy to sell it off to others.

Parts of the corridor southeast of Embrun have been completely (or as nearly so as possible) obliterated from the landscape and have been returned to cultivation, which sort of suggests it was sold or otherwise transferred to the farmers themselves (?).

It mystifies me that CP didn't pick this line up rather than CN because it would have given them a good way out of Ottawa towards their mainline to Montreal and a pretty decent line to Cornwall as well.

waterloowarrior

Jan 13, 2010, 11:15 PM

North Bay joining Renfrew County in concerns over future of railway
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2258588

The Upper Ottawa Valley and the Pontiac may have another ally in the quest to retain rail service in this region.

During its latest meeting, Renfrew County's development and property committee heard that the city of North Bay was concerned that the CP rail line that runs from Smiths Falls to North Bay could be torn up.

County officials reported to the committee that North Bay was interested in attending a meeting being facilitated by Renfrew County Warden Don Rathwell that will involve municipal leaders from all along the affected line.

A firm date has not been set for the meeting that will allow the politicians to voice their concerns and ideas on how rail service in the region can be salvaged.

Renfrew County, being centrally located along the rail route, is poised to host the meeting and Petawawa Mayor Bob Sweet has offered the Petawawa Civic Centre as a location. County CAO Norm Lemke and county development and property director Jim Hutton are currently working to set up the meeting as quickly as possible.

Development and property committee chairman Mayor Sweet of Petawawa, stated that the timeline to try and save the rail line is very short.

The CP line is one of two running through the valley. The other, the old CN line known as the Beachburg Subdivision, is also being abandoned.[...]

Aylmer

Apr 19, 2010, 10:19 PM

I did not know this:

http://www.cedec.ca/files/CT/Website/PressRelease_ChelseaFeasibilityStudy_Bilingual.pdf

(press release) Chelsea Train Station Feasibility

I heard it will probably be up within two years!

:)

c_speed3108

May 3, 2010, 2:19 PM

Carleton Place-Ottawa bus launches
Last Updated: Monday, May 3, 2010 | 9:47 AM ET Comments0Recommend1
CBC News

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/03/ottawa-carleton-place-commuter-bus.html#ixzz0msNczGkG

A new bus service between Ottawa and nearby Carleton Place hit the highway Monday.

Lanark Community Transit, which serves the municipality west of Ottawa that includes Carleton Place, began taking passengers on the new route Monday morning. The trip costs $10 each way, and the buses are permitted to use the special bus-only highway lanes usually reserved for Ottawa's OC Transpo buses.

Each weekday, more than 5,000 people commute into the city from Carleton Place, a community of 10,000 people 50 kilometres west of Ottawa.

Gary Strike, director of Lanark Community Transit, said staff recognized there was a need for a commuter bus because of all the people working and studying in Ottawa. He added, "There was a lot of seniors asking about the service to do day trips into Ottawa to visit relatives."

The bus makes four stops in Carleton Place, with the first at East Town Line Road and Bridge Street. It will take Highway 7 to Highway 417, then head to Queen and Bank Street in downtown Ottawa, making 15 other stops in the city along the way.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/03/ottawa-carleton-place-commuter-bus.html#ixzz0msNX8cWL

http://www.lct-thegreencorridor.com

eternallyme

May 5, 2010, 6:03 PM

http://www.lct-thegreencorridor.com

I'd be interested to see the ultimate ridership counts. To warrant commuter rail, I would think it would need to have 16 bus runs at full capacity in each direction during the morning and afternoon rush hour. I think it may be warranted within 10-15 years, too bad they will have to do additional work at the Highway 7 underpass to accomodate such.

c_speed3108

Nov 24, 2010, 2:35 PM

A step in the right direction.

New life for Ottawa-Pembroke rail line?

Valley group buys former CN line

By STEPHEN UHLER, QMI Agency

Last Updated: November 24, 2010 8:10am

PEMBROKE - A major obstacle to preserving the CN line running between Pembroke and Ottawa via the Pontiac has been overcome, paving the way for freight and passenger traffic to resume starting next year.

On Tuesday, Transport Pontiac-Renfrew (TPR) announced it has signed an agreement-in-principle with Canadian National Railway for TPR to acquire the lines, known officially as the Beachburg Subdivision.

In a press release, Louise Donaldson, director of Transport Pontiac-Renfrew, said this is a significant development.

"This initial agreement is a big step in the acquisition process," she said. "Some specifics of the deal still need to be worked out, but the parties are eager to complete the transaction."

No one is more pleased by the announcement than Izett McBride, Whitewater Region's new deputy mayor. He was an original member of the group that wanted a commuter rail service established on the line.

"They still need to dot the Is and cross the Ts for this," he said. "I think it is terrific they were able to reach an agreement and keep it in public hands."

The fight to save the rail started back in 2008, when private and public groups on both sides of the Ottawa River began exploring the possibility of reintroducing passenger service. A special Sunday "commuter excursion" was held on Oct. 5, 2008, in which a group of mayors, officials, reeves, media and invited guests were taken on a short rail trip to prove the feasibility of the idea.

Days later, the Ottawa Central Railway and its parent Quebec Railway Corporation, which owned the Beachburg subdivision, were sold to CN and within months after that, the line was placed on CN's abandonment list.

Fearing the impact on local industry, the non-profit Transport Pontiac-Renfrew group was formed in an attempt to ensure rail service remains in the Upper Ottawa Valley and Western Quebec.

"Rail is key to revitalizing our communities," said Ms. Donaldson. "It'll serve as a major benefit when courting new industry, plus it will attract future rail-served clients which in turn will create jobs."

Once acquired, the TPR will begin freight operations along the line as soon as possible. If all goes as planned, this is expected to be rolling in the spring of 2011.

Passenger/commuter service will be brought in later, with possible tourist excursions added to the mix.

"The freight is the more profitable side of this," McBride said, which will bring in the revenues needed to upgrade the lines so they can bring in a viable passenger service.

The upcoming reopening of Trebio's Smurfit-Stone pulp mill in Portage-du-Fort to manufacture energy wood pellets will be dependent on rail service, along with other industries within Renfrew County.

The tracks have been graded to 40 mph, which is usable for freight, but need to be upgraded to allow trains to run at 60 mph for passengers.

Mr. McBride said TPR expects the rail service to be self-financing, and except for items such as the construction of stations along the way, won't be looking for municipal funds to keep the rail line going.

"They know municipalities are not in the position" to be partners in this, he said..

GoTrans

Nov 24, 2010, 11:39 PM

I hate to be a naysayer with respection to the provision of commuter rail service but when the route avoids Renfrew and Arnprior it will be difficult to provide cost effective service only stopping at the smaller commumities. What really needs to be done is to reroute the service via the above locations and contiunue on thorough Pakenham, Almonte and Carleton Place with a re-established connection to Stittsville, South Kanata and Ottawa. Unfortunately previous decisions by all levels of governement from federal, to municipal have made this option much more expensive to re-establish. It would be great to see these rustig rails rehabilitated.

Dado

Nov 25, 2010, 4:07 AM

:previous:

People in the Pontiac don't have a lot of transport options other than using Highway 148 or the ferry at Quyon, so this service would be more attractive than it would first appear. Also, from the point of view of someone coming from Pembroke (which is admittedly a long way out), going through the Pontiac is in fact more direct than going through Renfrew and Arnprior.

With respect to the rest of what you write, at the moment no one is making any serious attempts to save the CP Chalk River subdivision (which is the line that goes north from Smiths Falls through Carleton Place, Almonte, Arnprior, along the river through Braeside and Sand Point to Renfrew and continues north to Pembroke and beyond to Petawawa and Chalk River, after which it turns into the North Bay sub and continues on to Mattawa (the end of the section being abandoned) and North Bay). CP also refuses to consider selling the line in anything less than whole, so splitting it up into shorter and more affordable logical chunks is beyond the question as well.

For instance, the Towns of Arnprior and Renfrew along with the Township of McNab-Braeside would have a reason to acquire the line from Arnprior to Renfrew and connect it to the remainder of the Renfrew subdivision in Arnprior, thus establishing the potential for commuter service into Ottawa from Renfrew and from the main part of Arnprior (the Renfrew sub terminates south of the Madawaska River away from the main area of settlement in Arnprior). Pembroke and Petawawa would have reason to secure the line through Pembroke proper for passenger service (rather than going around the outskirts as the Beachburg sub does), and on to Petawawa where it can serve military personnel and military equipment movements.

reidjr

Nov 25, 2010, 2:32 PM

I think a go train type link between ottawa-pembroke would be a huge success.

gjhall

Nov 25, 2010, 3:32 PM

Extending it to Petawawa would probably help make it economically viable - given the business between Ottawa and the base.

GoTrans

Jan 7, 2011, 9:07 PM

A rail line success story

OTTAWA CITIZEN JANUARY 7, 2011

Re: Commuter Rail Would Reduce Gridlock, Jan. 3.

Letter-writer D.C. McCaffrey presents a compelling argument for the implementation of a GO Transit type commuter service into Ottawa on existing heavy rail corridors stating "a commuter link would serve a very necessary and practical function, in addition to preserving the tracks for future freight use ..." McCaffrey is also correct in suggesting "once the tracks are gone they are gone forever." Rail lines are expensive to construct; in most cases, cost-prohibitive.

Like the CP "Valley Line", CN's "Beachburg Subdivision" is also on an abandonment list, but the similarities end here. The Beachburg Sub connects with the CP line in Pembroke, then runs southeast through Beachburg, Ont. before crossing into Quebec at Portage du Fort. The line returns to Ontario at Fitzroy Harbour, travelling east through Kanata, Nepean and into Ottawa. West of Kanata, a branch of the line extends west to and terminates at Nylene in Arnprior.

In 2009, the not-for-profit "Transport Pontiac-Renfrew" (TPR) was formed with a mission to acquire the Beachburg Sub from CN. Ottawa-based RailFutures Group was subsequently commissioned to prepare a business case and feasibility study concerning continued freight and future passenger/commuter service along the Pembroke-to-Ottawa line. The study determined that shipping freight by rail must continue to sustain and help rejuvenate the fragile business climate in Pontiac and Renfrew Counties. The 200+ page report also included results from specific surveys dealing with both freight and future passenger/ commuter applications. The results for commuter in particular were encouraging.

In November 2010, an initial agreement in principle was struck between CN and TPR. Details of the agreement can be found at www.transportpontiac-renfrew.ca.

Assuming full acquisition of the CN line by TPR, freight service will continue uninterrupted with commuter service scheduled for launch within two years.

Harry Gow and Terry Gibeau

Co-Chairs,

Transport Pontiac-Renfrew

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Even though this is not the most sustainable route with respect to commuter traffic it does provide some hope for the eventual start up of suburban commuter rail. This could also be developed into an express shuttle service between the Via Rail station and Kanata that could negate the need for extending LRT to Kanata as soon as some people want. This could be done for a lot less money than extending the LRT and it also preserves the rail line for future inter-city use down/up the Ottawa valley as long as the CPR route is preserved in its entirety to Sudbury.

Dado

Jul 29, 2011, 6:47 PM

I'm hearing rumours in the grapevine that track lifting of some 25 miles of track is either underway or will start next week between Renfrew and Pembroke.

If so, it would compromise a commuter rail route to Pembroke via Renfrew and Arnprior (with a short track connection in Arnprior), though a commuter route from Renfrew via Arnprior into Ottawa would still be doable. A commuter rail route to Pembroke would then have no option but to go via the Pontiac.

If track removals occur beyond Pembroke then we can pretty much kiss goodbye any possibility of restoring any kind of passenger service between Ottawa and Northern Ontario and Western Canada, or the retention of freight rail service.

eternallyme

Jul 29, 2011, 10:15 PM

Dado

Aug 12, 2011, 3:02 AM

The condition of the rail line would likely require significant rail replacement anyway. As long as the rail bed is preserved, it would be doable still. But Pembroke is likely too far away for any commuter line to be viable even in the very long term.

The rail being lifted is in good condition - it's continuous welded rail, much of it laid down in the last decade. CP and OVR had begun upgrading the rail from south to north and got to somewhere around Deux Rivières, so the only track that would need upgrading is well past Pembroke and Petawawa. As it happens, I saw the rail recovery train as it passed through Almonte on Sunday.

Even if the rails were in bad condition, you're still better off to leave them in place as they can be used to deliver replacement rails (since they are just deposited along the right of way) in the future, but once the tracks are out, the difficulty of reinstating track is far greater. It's a tedious, time-consuming process regardless of which method of construction is used.

The only "good" news in all this is that the break of line is on the Ottawa side of Pembroke and the interchange with the Beachburg Sub (in fact, it's south of the overpass to the southeast of Pembroke) rather than the other side of it, meaning that the potential of retaining a link to western Canada still exists by a combination of the CN soon-to-be TPR Beachburg Sub and the rest of the CPR Chalk River Sub and North Bay Sub. If the towns of Renfrew and Arnprior can get their acts together, they can still save the track through their towns so they can connect it to the Renfrew Sub in Arnprior for commuter and local freight service - they don't even have to connect the track up at the time, just keep it in place until such time as they do.