[Dartmouth] King's Wharf (Building E) | 85 m | 27 fl | U/C

[phrenic]

Francis is quoted in allnovascotia today saying that the 14 story rental and 12 story condo should start in about two weeks.

The condo building is 50% + sold.

[Jstaleness]

I still can't believe this is happening. Am I thinking too fast too think there might be Cranes by mid-summer? Not sure how deep they have to go for parking and i know that took forever with the Trillium.

[Wishblade]

I still can't believe this is happening. Am I thinking too fast too think there might be Cranes by mid-summer? Not sure how deep they have to go for parking and i know that took forever with the Trillium.

Im fully expecting cranes by mid summer myself. I dont think the ground there is nearly as difficult to work with as the Trillium site.

[kph06]

Im fully expecting cranes by mid summer myself. I dont think the ground there is nearly as difficult to work with as the Trillium site.

There would be less rock to deal with, but keeping the water out would be another issue. The current ground elevation isn't much higher than sea level, so even one level of parking would be below the water line. I presume all the I-Beams on site are for friction piles.

[FuzzyWuz]

if you look at the stage ii agreement you'll see that the parking starts at 2 meters above sea level so I doubt there will be any digging.

[kph06]

if you look at the stage ii agreement you'll see that the parking starts at 2 meters above sea level so I doubt there will be any digging.

As in the floor being 2m above sea level? If that's the case it would save a lot of headaches. I noticed a few new buildings in other cities, Trump Tower in Chicago for one, has the first many floors all parking levels, then the occupied levels start on top of that.

[phrenic]

I noticed a few new buildings in other cities, Trump Tower in Chicago for one, has the first many floors all parking levels, then the occupied levels start on top of that.

Trump Tower in Toronto is the same, but it's got a really small footprint compared to Trump in Chicago. Marina City in Chicago actually uses the first 19 floors in each building for parking. It makes sense for this project. Look at the Marriott Harbour Front's parking garage. It's below sea level and floods every time there is a storm.

[FuzzyWuz]

19 floors of parking? That's insane! There are probably people wandering in there who got lost years ago.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Does anybody know if the 30 fl tower is approved or not?

I can see these viewplane assholes fighting the tower, as the anti-development legislation seems to pass faster than the development agreement process.

[hfx_chris]

I can see these viewplane assholes fighting the tower, as the anti-development legislation seems to pass faster than the development agreement process.
I don't think so. Generally people seemed very supportive when the zoing change went to council a year or so ago, even knowing about the 30-floor tower back then.

[City_of_Lakes]

Wow, I didn't expect ANY of this to start so soon! This is going to be an exciting year in Halifax for development.

[FuzzyWuz]

The website has been changed and I like a lot of the new features. My favorite is a pdf of the overall concept as posted on the wall in the sales office.

My only concern now is that there is no advertising of this project to speak of. And since sales haven't looked as steady since the January 25 site update I think it makes sense to do some work on the public profile to keep momentum going. Am I just being too impatient or what?

[beyeas]

The website has been changed and I like a lot of the new features. My favorite is a pdf of the overall concept as posted on the wall in the sales office.

My only concern now is that there is no advertising of this project to speak of. And since sales haven't looked as steady since the January 25 site update I think it makes sense to do some work on the public profile to keep momentum going. Am I just being too impatient or what?

I wouldn't say "no advertising"... but they could certainly do more.
I think the advertising that they have done has been very very targeted and focussed on environments where they will reach mid-higher end yuppie types (e.g. they have a full page ad in the program at Neptune for every show), but are not doing as much general public advertising.

[JET]

The website has been changed and I like a lot of the new features. My favorite is a pdf of the overall concept as posted on the wall in the sales office.

My only concern now is that there is no advertising of this project to speak of. And since sales haven't looked as steady since the January 25 site update I think it makes sense to do some work on the public profile to keep momentum going. Am I just being too impatient or what?

It seems to be a major topic of discussion in Dartmouth, lots of word of mouth, even without advertising; unless you think that we should let the people on the other side of the harbout know. JET

[hfx_chris]

It seems to be a major topic of discussion in Dartmouth, lots of word of mouth, even without advertising; unless you think that we should let the people on the other side of the harbout know. JET
Shh. I think some of them may be reading this thread...

[Kicker]

The website has been changed and I like a lot of the new features. My favorite is a pdf of the overall concept as posted on the wall in the sales office.

My only concern now is that there is no advertising of this project to speak of. And since sales haven't looked as steady since the January 25 site update I think it makes sense to do some work on the public profile to keep momentum going. Am I just being too impatient or what?

I like the new floorplan pages. Much easier to browse the condo layouts. Would love one of those large units facing the harbour.

In terms of advertising, I expect we'll start to see more now that they have a beautiful model suite and more robust website to send prospective buyers to.

[DigitalNinja]

It seems like 80% of the keelston is sold. The GF and I were looking at them.

[worldlyhaligonian]

The new website is amazing... I didn't realize there was going to be so many 12 story buildings and a 18 story in addition to the 30 story tower.

[DigitalNinja]

There is a 17 and an 18

[Jonovision]

I like the new website too. I couldn't find that pdf that FuzzyWuz was referring to but I did grab these from the website.

http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/45825/2911340020096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2911340020096709958aIsBSD)

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/42859/2208107120096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2208107120096709958tsdnUA)

http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/44678/2031106990096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2031106990096709958LZKcNh)

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/44436/2520150770096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2520150770096709958JoddZs)

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/44509/2585144670096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2585144670096709958ykpOdy)

[Phalanx]

I like the new website too. I couldn't find that pdf that FuzzyWuz was referring to but I did grab these from the website.
(...)
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/44678/2031106990096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2031106990096709958LZKcNh)
(...)
I really love this sketch for some reason. I'll be happy if King's Wharf even ends up looking half that good.

[-Harlington-]

those new photos give it a vibrent big city feel

[spaustin]

It's certainly a great project. The only thing I dislike is the spiral road entrance. I know they needed a entrance that wouldn't be obstructed by passing trains, and maybe it's the best solution. A bridge over the canal and tracks heading to Canal Street would have been so much sexier. I can't imagine the spiral being anything except for a concrete ramp. The kind you see in parking garages. It's unfortunate that it will be on the end of the Alderney Drive where the best vista of Halifax is. Building L which will be right next to it calls for office and ground floor commercial. I can't imagine who is going to want to use the ground floor commercial at that spot. Hopefully I'm wrong. I really like the project and it'll be great for Downtown Dartmouth, the second entrance is just the one thing that I worry about.

[Jonovision]

A very interesting article from The Coast this week.

Welcome to the New Dartmouth
The King’s Wharf development—one of the largest in HRM history—is billed as the cure for downtown Dartmouth’s malaise.
by Matt Semansky

The gleaming, stainless-steel kitchen at Dartmouth cafe Two If By Sea is a blur of activity, with a half-dozen young, black-clad employees milling about behind a panelled counter. Tattooed arms dole out espressos, dive into glass jars to retrieve gooey cookies and dig through baskets for croissants the size of footballs. Customers wait patiently in a lineup that extends past a winding staircase leading to an unfinished upstairs space. Those who have already been served sit at tables topped with small bottles bearing single flowers.

The cookies are especially popular today. A little boy wrestles with a chocolate-chip concoction nearly the size of his face, the same item that two female college students in thick-rimmed glasses have decided to share. They discuss an upcoming art show until they're politely interrupted by Zane Kelsall, co-owner of Two If By Sea, who's found a moment to step out from behind the counter and ask how the coffee is.

Kelsall is proud of his coffee. He and business partner Tara MacDonald are also proud to have chosen Ochterloney Street in downtown Dartmouth as the location for Two If By Sea, which opened late last fall---especially since a chorus of naysayers told them an upmarket java joint on "the dark side" couldn't last.

"We had someone come in from a local paper and make a bet with us that we'd be out of business by the end of January," Kelsall says with relish. "It looks like he's going to have to pony up."

Kelsall claims Two If By Sea's sales are competitive with his former employer Steve-O-Reno's in downtown Halifax, and the crowd around us---a mix of artsy students, moneyed middle-agers and moms pushing strollers---certainly indicates a strong market for lattes. He then points to a young couple sitting behind us---a couple that regularly ferries in from Halifax---as evidence that word of his cafe's gourmet joe and buttery treats has crossed the harbour.

Halifax hipsters spending an afternoon in downtown Dartmouth? Kelsall thinks this once-unfathomable phenomenon could become an everyday occurrence. He and MacDonald believe in the potential of the neighbourhood, potential represented by the upscale Founders Corner condominium development with which they share the corner of Ochterloney and Wentworth. Potential further suggested by King's Wharf, a massive mixed-use development project scheduled to break ground near the Dartmouth Marine Slips within the next couple of months.

"It wasn't the reason we opened here, but it was a selling point," Kelsall says of King's Wharf. "When we were doing our marketing research, we realized that was going to bring more than 2,000 new residents in the next few years to the downtown core.

"We wanted to get in on the ground level."

Kelsall feels Dartmouth is ready to shake off decades of stagnation to become a hub of social and economic activity. A place where scenesters can satisfy their appetites for food, culture and complicated coffee, and locals emulate the "Proudly Dartmouth" slogan written on the sandwich board outside Two If By Sea. They've already won the reporter's money, but Kelsall and MacDonald are betting bigger stakes on just such a future.

Whether that bet pays off will depend largely on Francis Fares, the president and CEO of Fares Real Estate Inc. and the developer of King's Wharf.

On a cold Friday afternoon, Fares looks out from his office window at the King's Wharf sales building and sees a winter sun that sparkles off the water and paints the walls of the room a gauzy orange-yellow. The optimistic light matches the mood of the soft-spoken developer. With his project, which will cost up to $500 million and take up to a decade to complete, Fares is promising a dramatic makeover of the land surrounding the Dartmouth Marine Slips. His plan is to transform the unsightly space between Alderney Drive and the waterfront into a neighbourhood teeming with new residents and businesses. While the most iconic element is a 30-storey condominium tower, the project includes several smaller condos, office buildings, a hotel, a cruise ship terminal, a marina and retail space.

"We're hoping it will be the hub, the centre, the downtown of Dartmouth, where people can live, work and shop," says Fares of his development, one of largest in the history of HRM.

Fares, along with Kelsall and others, believes the spillover of residents, tax dollars and jobs from King's Wharf will revitalize the entire downtown area, including a main artery, Portland Street, that is currently a gallery of weathered old buildings, empty storefronts and the odd shiny new business. Once he obtains the building permits for the first phase of his development, which is comprised of three condominiums and an office building, Fares will begin making alterations to a town starving for change.

"Dartmouth has been neglected for a long time," Fares says. "I think it's Dartmouth's time in the next 10 years."

Despite all the sunny talk, there are some troubling clouds obscuring the view of Dartmouth's future. The very changes that could boost the city's fortunes threaten to uproot its most vulnerable residents, bringing dramatic consequences to those whose lives depend most on routine. It's also unlikely that the hip, happening neighbourhood envisioned by Kelsall will emerge out of a heavily condo-fied downtown.

With his crisp suits and deep pockets, Fares is certainly the kind of person who can bring new buildings, new people and new money into Dartmouth. Less certain, however, is what new identity will come with them.

The Among Friends Social Club shares its main entrance with one of the several tattoo shops that line Portland Street, and with nothing but a small, black-type sign to announce itself, it's easy to miss. Chances are many people who live or work in the downtown area aren't even aware that it's here, or how important it is to the 50 or 60 people suffering from mental illnesses ranging from anxiety to schizophrenia, who come in every day to eat, watch television and socialize.

Patrons do all this in a room not much bigger than a large one-bedroom apartment, a busy space occupied today by about a dozen members. It's a quiet bunch---whispered voices are drowned out by a blaring television---but friendly. A thin, silver-haired man clad in third-hand clothing and a welcoming gap-toothed smile leads me to the back of the building, to a tiny storage room that Beverly Cadham has converted into an office.

Cadham, program co-ordinator at Among Friends, worries that her members, many of whom live in the group homes and rooming houses that dot the downtown side streets, will not be able to maintain this shelter if property values and rents increase and developers buy up affordable housing. All of the members are on social assistance, collecting a maximum of $535 per month.

"If it's $25 more or $10 more [for rent], that's coming out of what they would spend on food, clothing or [prescription] drugs," she says. "If the rent's going up but the monthly income's not going up, if people are selling off the rooming houses and housing blocks and leaving less and less affordable housing, that's where your whole homelessness issue comes into play.

"If you take away more of that affordable housing, where are people going to go?"

Being forced to relocate is a trauma the club members are familiar with. Four-and-a-half years ago, Among Friends had to vacate its former home on Ochterloney Street because the building did not meet environmental standards. The club shifted its base to the Nova Scotia Hospital in Woodside, about three kilometres to the south---an inaccessible location for patrons whose illnesses and financial restrictions precluded complicated cross-town journeys. As a result, Among Friends lost about three quarters of its membership before moving back downtown two years ago.

Up the street at Our Thyme cafe, shop manager Mary Young and Barbara Darby, secretary of the board at the Elizabeth Fry Society, echo Cadham's concerns. The Society helps women at risk of a run-in with the criminal justice system forge better lives, in part by providing jobs and training at Our Thyme.

With its corner fireplace and service provided today by a petite, greying woman with a gentle, attentive demeanour, Our Thyme gives off a cozy grandma's-house vibe. Our server is one of a dozen employees here, a group of women with histories that include prison sentences, anger management classes and lack of housing.

In addition to Our Thyme, the Society also operates a rooming house on Tulip Street that provides women with stability in the form of short-term shelter. Without it, the nine current residents of the house, women working hard to put their troubled pasts behind them, would face yet another obstacle.

"If affordable housing gets pushed out from the core, our clients will have trouble getting in to us to use our services," says Darby. Among these services are outreach and emergency food and clothing programs used by approximately 60 women in Dartmouth each month.

Darby isn't opposed to condo developments such as King's Wharf. She just hopes a more privileged crowd accepts and interacts with citizens from a harder-luck background. "I think a mix is good for everybody," says Darby.

Karen Goudie also believes Dartmouth can succeed as a mix of new and old, of high and low-income residents. Goudie is coordinator at Feeding Others of Nova Scotia, a soup kitchen that operates out of the Margaret House heritage property on Wentworth Street, and feeds and clothes roughly 3,000 of Dartmouth's less-fortunate residents each month. She says she's experienced few problems since Founders Corner and Two If By Sea opened across the street and that a bigger, richer community could mean more support for her organization.

"You have to look at it in a positive way," she says. "I hope it's a healthy integration, and I think it will be."

But there is a fine line between positive thinking and wishful thinking. Hugh Millward, professor of geography at Saint Mary's University, says gentrification of the kind that appears imminent in Dartmouth "tends to take over a whole area and you tend to get a displacement of a lot of poorer people and people who are renting. What tends to happen is that they get pushed further out into suburban areas that are in decline."

Goudie's notion of a "healthy mix" would be more plausible if the HRM had regulations or incentives to ensure private developers included affordable housing in their plans But while a few city councillors are making a push in this direction, no such laws are currently on the books.

Gloria McCluskey, councillor for downtown Dartmouth, is one of those officials who would like to see the city require developers to provide affordable housing in their projects. But she also feels downtown Dartmouth has too high a concentration of rooming houses, and that development geared to higher-income residents is a winning move for the neighbourhood right now.

However, the town's losing reputation has actually helped it stay affordable, and unless the community preserves sanctuaries for its most vulnerable citizens, the people left out of the winners' circle will be those who can least afford to lose.

As Our Thyme's Young puts it, "I don't think anything would ever be a win for everybody."

When Fares paints a verbal portrait of the people he expects to populate his condos, he speaks of empty nesters and young professionals. For such buyers, a clean sweep of Dartmouth's seedier elements might sound appealing. But even those fortunate enough to afford to take up residence in a re-imagined downtown should carefully consider what they're getting into. However noble Fares' intentions may be, time and money have a way of throwing even the best of plans off course.

There have already been significant changes to the King's Wharf project, in particular the decision to alter the order of construction from the original two-phase plan agreed to by the Halifax Regional Council and the Harbour East Community Council in 2008. Initially, the first phase was to include a small office building on Alderney, the tall condo tower, a public park and a boardwalk. But in December, Fares received approval to essentially reverse the phases and start with the three smaller condo units and office building, as well as some private park space and an extension of King Street. This shift in plans did not require public approval.

That may not matter to the majority of citizens who chimed in with overwhelming support for the development in public meetings over the past five years. But to downtown Dartmouth resident Toby Balch, the switch is a caution flag.

"To me it matters what's going in first because you want to know what amenities are coming in and what's guaranteed," he says.

Balch recalls attending one of the public meetings regarding King's Wharf, where his fellow citizens' enthusiasm drowned out his more measured optimism. "I've never seen at any of the meetings I've been to such desperate enthusiasm for building anything and just getting rid of that eyesore that's there," says Balch. "I understand the sentiment, but my feeling as someone who lives downtown is, let's wait as long as we can so we can get the best possible development to come forward."

In Balch's view, starting with what he calls "the bland bulk" of the King's Wharf isn't an example of best practices. Building the less public-oriented buildings first also leaves Balch concerned about the possibility that the elements of the plan most beneficial to the community could be abandoned. "If you want to be cynical about this, if [Fares] builds [the first four buildings], is the rest going to come?" he says.

The question has merit, especially coming from a man who, as an owner and renovator of several downtown heritage properties, is hardly a knee-jerk, obstructionist cynic. Although the development agreement includes public park space, waterfront access and a provision that one per cent of the total construction value of the project be dedicated to public art, Fares doesn't exactly have a gun to his head.

"A project this size, there's no guarantee that it'll all eventually be built," says Joseph Driscoll a senior planner with planning applications and community development for HRM. "There is always a danger when you're dealing with phases that, whether it's the economics or various factors, it may not be developed completely."

In other words, the public amenities that look so attractive on paper might not advance beyond the blueprint stage if the money dries up.

For his part, Fares says the phase flip is the result of the recession, not a hint that he's going to cut and run. The 30-storey tower was put on the back-burner, he says, because $600 per-square-foot units are a tough sell in a ravaged market. In his mind, it's better to start with the more modest buildings than not start at all.

Balch understands the desire to start acting on the development after so many years of talk. He just wishes the conversation could continue a little longer. "I really hope and believe this will be an incredible development. I just think the way to do that is to have more public meetings."

However, he acknowledges that doing so would mean further slowing down a transformation that most of his fellow dark siders are anxious to see proceed. The consensus among both residents and business owners is that in order to revitalize Dartmouth, the old must make way for the new.

Oddly enough, the "new" Dartmouth figures to skew older. If it follows the HRM's demographic and condo-ownership patterns, King's Wharf won't be populated by yuppies and artists but by retirees moving in from the 'burbs.

"We don't have the same number of young professionals, even proportionally, as a city like Toronto, because we don't have the same big finance industry downtown," says Millward. "We're getting a lot of people, a lot of the wealthy Maritimers who are downsizing from the four-bedroom suburban house to a smaller, inner-city condo, and they can do that because they've got the equity."

That equity translates into authority, and if the senior-dominated downtown Dartmouth condo Admiralty Place is any indication, empty-nesters will fight hard for their own vision of downtown, one that doesn't prioritize a hopping late-night scene. Portland Street watering hole Whiskey's Lounge is one of many bars in the neighbourhood that squabbled with Admiralty Place residents when trying to obtain a licence for live entertainment after 9pm. Whiskey's got its license last year after being turned down in 2007, but the battle left owner Jack Toulany exasperated.

"When you live downtown, you have to live with noise," he says.

But Millward thinks grey power is a better bet to recharge Dartmouth than noisy, youth-oriented nightlife. Young artists give a neighbourhood hipster credibility, he says, but an older crowd with cash makes more of an impact.

"From the perspective of someone my age---I'm 60---why shouldn't we think of a vibrant downtown being peopled by wrinklies?" Millward says. "It's wrong to think that just because someone's cool and hip and young that they are economically as good a deal."

Still, one has to wonder whether the economic boost they provide will continue over the long haul. Years from now, when the sun sets on the first generation of empty-nesters at King's Wharf, will Dartmouth once again go dark? There's no such thing as a permanent panacea, and no matter how big a splash the development makes, citizens, business owners, community organizations and government will have to work to ensure that the changes are positive and lasting.

Almost everyone agrees that change is needed, that the neighbourhood must evolve from its current state. But hopes and expectations vary about what downtown Dartmouth should become, and history suggests that balancing the needs of rich and poor, big business and small, young and old is an elusive goal. A goal that downtown Dartmouth must somehow achieve if a new light is to truly shine on the dark side.

[JET]

It a strange argument that seniors and empty nesters will only flock to Dartmouth, and that the younger and hipper people will go to halifax. If you build it they will come, one visit to "Two If" is evidence of that. JET

[Jonovision]

It's true. A lot of these younger hipper people are from Dartmouth. And there is a large wave of them coming back now after completing school.

[Barrington south]

this article by the coast is so typical of their anti-development slant.....how they could put negative spin on this amazing project is beyond me. It also has an Ageism slant which is discriminatory. The only thing that I found surprising is that it was not written by Tim Bousquet

[Keith P.]

The only thing that I found surprising is that it was not written by Tim Bousquet

He must have been out of town. :haha:

[worldlyhaligonian]

Ugh, always the same routine.

I want affordable housing if other people get it, I can't afford my rent and I work my ass off.

[Jonovision]

There is activity on site! There appears to be a pile driver there now.

[Wishblade]

There is activity on site! There appears to be a pile driver there now.

I saw this as well. Judging from the looks of the site, its just about time for the serious work to start. Im guessing in about 20 years, downtown Dartmouth will probably be on par with the scale of what downtown Halifax is today. It would really be something to see.

[Dmajackson]

I saw this as well. Judging from the looks of the site, its just about time for the serious work to start. Im guessing in about 20 years, downtown Dartmouth will probably be on par with the scale of what downtown Halifax is today. It would really be something to see.

Well if Dartmouth's going to become Halifax that leaves Bedford to become Dartmouth. :P

Maybe even Sackville can become Bedford (a lot of work required though). :haha:

[worldlyhaligonian]

I saw this as well. Judging from the looks of the site, its just about time for the serious work to start. Im guessing in about 20 years, downtown Dartmouth will probably be on par with the scale of what downtown Halifax is today. It would really be something to see.

I hope so... too bad there are NIMBYs everywhere...

[FuzzyWuz]

I think they're playing redlight-greenlight with me. I go there and see that something has changed but I never actually see humans doing stuff. The pile driver is in position and ready to work but I never saw it arrive or get positioned.

[-Harlington-]

aha, i think your right
i could see alot of activity when i was downtown the other day from the waterfront but when i went over to the ferry terminal to go get some pictures it seemed everyone went home.

[FuzzyWuz]

So now there's a sign down at the site advertising a beautiful 2.7 acre waterfront lot for sale by Francis Fares. WTF?

[kwajo]

So now there's a sign down at the site advertising a beautiful 2.7 acre waterfront lot for sale by Francis Fares. WTF?
Hmmm, curious indeed...

[beyeas]

Hmmm, curious indeed...

Indeed. ALthough I can't imagine that 2.7 acres represents all that much square footage of the total property? Might be wrong though.

[Jonovision]

I saw that there today too. Could it possibly be another site somewhere along the water that he owns?

[Jonovision]

Some pics from this week.

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/28296/2971383620096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2971383620096709958dDNhRh)

http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/26770/2413495520096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2413495520096709958tsgsIE)

[-Harlington-]

little bit of activity here:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4444173813_06fc4ffb49.jpg

[Jonovision]

I received their news letter the other day. It made it sound like actual construction will not be starting for another 4-6 weeks.

[sdm]

I received their news letter the other day. It made it sound like actual construction will not be starting for another 4-6 weeks.

That sucks, hope it will start soon

[worldlyhaligonian]

When are they going to demo the remaining buildings?

[Jonovision]

I brought a friend down to the sales centre the other day and I was told that construction will be starting any day now. They are setting up all the construction managers in their trailers at the moment. And that the two remaining buildings will be coming down next month.

[-Harlington-]

:previous: :previous:
great news
this will be great

[Dmajackson]

Good to hear. :)

Hmmm ... which community shall I pick on now that Dartmouth will have cranes? :P

[haligonia]

There's always Sackville. ;)

[terrynorthend]

There's always Sackville. ;)

Or Windsor. Once Windsor has a few cranes, maybe we can seriously think of getting a commuter rail line in there. I'd love to hop on the train for a day at Martock :)

[halifaxboyns]

There was a story about this development on the CBC news tonight - the project is delayed because of the CN crossing. HRM can't issue a building permit until CN has confirmed the access it acceptable.

[David1gray]

ya cbc has an article on the CN problem as well
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/04/20/ns-kings-wharf-rail.html
hopefully this crossing can be accepted soon.

[Jonovision]

From the Herald today.

Added cost down the road

King’s Wharf project will need $6m to $7 million overpass later


By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
THE DEVELOPER be hind King’s Wharf is eventually going to have to build an expen sive overpass to the multimil lion- dollar project slated for the Dartmouth waterfront.

But not a second before he has to.

“Why do I have to scratch when it’s not itchy?" develop er Francis Fares, owner of

Fares Real Estate Inc ., said Wednesday.

Construction of the first phase of the $300-million resi dential and commercial pro ject was supposed to start in January. But Fares has been unable to get a building per mit from the city because he’s still waiting on approval from

CN to build a road across the rail line to access the Dart mouth Cove site that used to house the former Dartmouth Marine Slips.

The overpass, which Fares doesn’t plan to build any time soon, will cost between $6 mil lion and $7 million.

“I have four buildings to build that are 14 storeys high and each one is about 100 units on average," Fares said. “So that may take me . . . three or four years, easy, before I have to think about the second ac cess."

Fares will eventually have to build the overpass because a train passes the site twice a day and fire regulations re quire an access road to be open at all times.

“It’s a lot of time and effort and energy which I don’t need to spend right now," Fares said.

“I need to focus on getting my building permit and start building."

The project doesn’t need a second access point yet, said Paul Dunphy, the city’s direc tor of community develop ment.

“For our purposes, the total project needed two entries and two exits," Dunphy said.

But for the first phase of King’s Wharf, only one is re quired, he said. “We have a maximum length for a cul-de-sac and that’s really what, in essence, they’re building in the first phase."

The first access road will cross the rail line at the foot of King Street. The overpass will eventually be located at the foot of Prince Street.

Getting approval from CN for an overpass is “simpler" than it is for a road, Dunphy said.

“What you’re really doing is defining a volume of air around which you’re building, and as long as you don’t encroach in side that volume of air, they really don’t care. They just want some proof that the over pass is designed (and con structed) to be structurally sound."

So if the developer is in a hur ry to start construction, why not build the overpass right away?

“I think it’s really a matter of financial management," Dun phy said. “They want to have a minimum of investment at the front end and a maximum of re turn, and then (use) some of the revenues from the first phase to finance the infrastructure for the second phase."

CN and Fares both predict the approval for the first access road will come within weeks.

But Dunphy said CN is typi cally “very, very slow" to make decisions.

“They’re probably the slow est decision-making group in the country," he said.

CN spokeswoman Julie Sene cal said the freight carrier is only considering one proposal now for a level public crossing leading into King’s Wharf.

“We’re reviewing the design that was submitted to us to en sure that it meets the standard for safety for the users as well as for the rail operation," Sene cal said.

That review is “almost com pleted," she said. “It’s just a matter of a couple of weeks."

Fares said he doesn’t blame CN for construction delays.

“The whole project has been delayed for one thing or anoth er," he said. “It’s unfair to blame CN. They’re taking their time to review the plans."

King’s Wharf is slated to con tain about 1,300 condo and rent al units, a 200-room hotel and 300,000 square feet of office and commercial space.

Fares plans simultaneous starts on a 90-unit apartment building and a 79-unit condo minium building.

Thirty-eight of the condos in the second building have been sold at an average price of $350,000, he said.

“Now everybody’s waiting for us to start," Fares said, not ing the buildings should be completed by the summer of 2012.

(clambie@herald.ca)

[sdm]

Old pipe creates hurdle
King’s Wharf construction can’t start until sewer line dealt with
By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Wed. Apr 28 - 4:53 AM
First it was the train tracks, now the discovery of a 68-year-old sewer pipe is stalling a multi-million development slated for the Dartmouth waterfront.

The city’s water utility recently found a 1.2-metre concrete pipe running across the land where King’s Wharf is supposed to be built. The pipe, which ties into a nearby pumping station, is meant to carry sewage and storm overflow to Halifax Harbour in extremely wet weather.

"If they’re going to stop a $500-million development for a dry pipe in the ground that nobody has legal rights to except me, something is wrong in this country or in this municipality," developer Francis Fares, owner of Fares Real Estate Inc. said in an interview.

His project, designed to include 1,300 condo and rental units, a 200-room hotel and 300,000 square feet of office and commercial space, was originally pegged at $300 million.

"If you take an average of $250,000 a unit, that will put you over $500 million," said Fares, noting the $300 million figure was calculated about six years ago.

Hurdles like the pipe problem "don’t install confidence," in potential condo buyers, Fares said.

"This is not good for me, not good for HRM or the water commission," he said.

Fares proposed a simple solution to the problem.

"It’s a dry pipe as far as I’m concerned. There’s no easement on my property showing the pipe," he said. "All I’m going to do is; I’m going to dig it out and close it."

When asked if he’s allowed to do that, Fares said, "It’s on my land."

Later in the interview, the developer said he planned to work with Halifax Water to solve the problem.

"I really think in a couple weeks we will be starting construction."

The pipe problem was uncovered as part of the water utility’s development approval review for King’s Wharf, Carl Yates, Halifax Water’s general manager, said.

"The pipe is referenced in a legal document. So it has been recorded as being there since 1942 at least."

Halifax Water will work with the developer to fix the problem, Yates said.

"It will come in conflict with actual foundations that you would build," he said of the pipe.

"When you’re digging up, you don’t want a sewage pipe, shall we say, in your basement. You’ve got a physical conflict of two things that can’t be in the same place at the same time," Yates said.

That could mean moving the pipe or changing the project, Yates said.

"Until we have a solution, we are not in the position to be able to approve the development from a servicing standpoint," he said.

"So it’s important, obviously, that we work very efficiently and quickly with the developer to try to find a solution."

Yates couldn’t say how long it will take to work out the problem.

"We will certainly give it a high priority, as I’m sure the developer will. . . . It’s obviously in our collective interest to find a solution."

Hugh Morrison, a development engineer with the city, confirmed construction can’t start on King’s Wharf until the problem is solved.

"It’s pretty premature to say what solutions are at this time."

Construction of the first phase of the residential and commercial project was supposed to start in January. But Fares has been unable to get a building permit from the city because he’s still waiting on approval from CN to build a road across the rail line to access the Dartmouth Cove site that used to house the former Dartmouth Marine Slips.

Fares said he now has verbal permission for the rail crossing.

"I don’t have it in writing yet," he said.

Fares plans simultaneous starts on a 90-unit apartment building and a 79-unit condominium building.

( clambie@herald.ca)

[Dmajackson]

Old pipe creates hurdle
King’s Wharf construction can’t start until sewer line dealt with
By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Wed. Apr 28 - 4:53 AM

First it was the train tracks, now the discovery of a 68-year-old sewer pipe is stalling a multi-million development slated for the Dartmouth waterfront.

The city’s water utility recently found a 1.2-metre concrete pipe running across the land where King’s Wharf is supposed to be built. The pipe, which ties into a nearby pumping station, is meant to carry sewage and storm overflow to Halifax Harbour in extremely wet weather.

"If they’re going to stop a $500-million development for a dry pipe in the ground that nobody has legal rights to except me, something is wrong in this country or in this municipality," developer Francis Fares, owner of Fares Real Estate Inc. said in an interview.

His project, designed to include 1,300 condo and rental units, a 200-room hotel and 300,000 square feet of office and commercial space, was originally pegged at $300 million.

"If you take an average of $250,000 a unit, that will put you over $500 million," said Fares, noting the $300 million figure was calculated about six years ago.

Hurdles like the pipe problem "don’t install confidence," in potential condo buyers, Fares said.

"This is not good for me, not good for HRM or the water commission," he said.

Fares proposed a simple solution to the problem.

"It’s a dry pipe as far as I’m concerned. There’s no easement on my property showing the pipe," he said. "All I’m going to do is; I’m going to dig it out and close it."

When asked if he’s allowed to do that, Fares said, "It’s on my land."

Later in the interview, the developer said he planned to work with Halifax Water to solve the problem.

"I really think in a couple weeks we will be starting construction."

The pipe problem was uncovered as part of the water utility’s development approval review for King’s Wharf, Carl Yates, Halifax Water’s general manager, said.

"The pipe is referenced in a legal document. So it has been recorded as being there since 1942 at least."

Halifax Water will work with the developer to fix the problem, Yates said.

"It will come in conflict with actual foundations that you would build," he said of the pipe.

"When you’re digging up, you don’t want a sewage pipe, shall we say, in your basement. You’ve got a physical conflict of two things that can’t be in the same place at the same time," Yates said.

That could mean moving the pipe or changing the project, Yates said.

"Until we have a solution, we are not in the position to be able to approve the development from a servicing standpoint," he said.

"So it’s important, obviously, that we work very efficiently and quickly with the developer to try to find a solution."

Yates couldn’t say how long it will take to work out the problem.

"We will certainly give it a high priority, as I’m sure the developer will. . . . It’s obviously in our collective interest to find a solution."

Hugh Morrison, a development engineer with the city, confirmed construction can’t start on King’s Wharf until the problem is solved.

"It’s pretty premature to say what solutions are at this time."

Construction of the first phase of the residential and commercial project was supposed to start in January. But Fares has been unable to get a building permit from the city because he’s still waiting on approval from CN to build a road across the rail line to access the Dartmouth Cove site that used to house the former Dartmouth Marine Slips.

Fares said he now has verbal permission for the rail crossing.

"I don’t have it in writing yet," he said.

Fares plans simultaneous starts on a 90-unit apartment building and a 79-unit condominium building.

( clambie@herald.ca )

[kph06]

The more I hear from this guy the greasier he sounds. To me he is very quick to publicly shovel the blame off to others for things that he should have taken care of if he were organized. Yes, obtaining permits is usually the in the final steps before construction, but someone on his management team should have done their homework to make sure things like this don't hold things up. I love the development but the more he speaks the less confidence I have that he can pull it off as proposed.

[fenwick16]

It sounds like he is just getting impatient. He is risking a lot of money and now there is one more delay. Hopefully the HRM really will deal with it quickly.

[spaustin]

His characterization that it's his land and that there is no easement is pretty simplistic too. Yes it's his land, but if utilities sit in place for more than, I believe it's 20 years, the utility owner acquires prescriptive rights. I'm no lawyer, but I suspect if it came to a legal showdown, the water commission would have a good argument that they've acquired an easement on the land and that pipe can stay exactly where it is if they so decide (the commission's argument would of course be weakened if no one knew where the pipe was). Obviously a legal fight wouldn't be a good thing for anyone here. Hopefully they can work it out, but this public broadside at the water commission seems a bit much, especially when I don't think it's cut and dry and Fares needs the water commission's cooperation.

[fenwick16]

The city’s water utility recently found a 1.2-metre concrete pipe running across the land where King’s Wharf is supposed to be built. The pipe, which ties into a nearby pumping station, is meant to carry sewage and storm overflow to Halifax Harbour in extremely wet weather.

Maybe the problem is that they just recently found this pipe. If it is an important part of the utility's system then shouldn't they have known about it?

It isn't a question of who is right or wrong; it is just a question of whether development is important to the HRM or not. If it is important then they should work 24 hours a day to work it out. If it isn't important, then the water commission will take months to solve it and one more development will be in jeopardy.

[Dr SweetLove]

Hopefully the HRM really will deal with it quickly.

:haha:

[fenwick16]

:haha:

Hopefully the Water Commission won't have the same reaction.

[halifaxboyns]

I had the same reaction when I read this article - that he was a little bit greasy so to speak. But After reading it again - I think he's probably just frustrated with delays. He knows that many believe this is a good project, myself included and I'm sure he has the money and capital all set up.

I suspect he's probably getting pressure from the banks to get shovels in the ground and get going and so these problems are not helping his relationship with the banks.

At the same time, I also am not surprised about this pipe. The water commissions predecesors were notorious for sending pipes through land along the waterfront without really getting easements because back in the 20's/30's - easements weren't really a legal tool available (I think they came about in the 50's). So they just got legal agreements and put the pipes in.

You'd be surprised how inaccurate some of the mapping of these pipes can be too.

[fenwick16]

It sounds like things are moving forward on this project according to allnovascotia.com which quotes Francis Fares as expecting to start construction next week.. He has approval for the rail crossing and expects to resolve the municipal water line by moving it to a different location.

[Jonovision]

I really do hope things finally start next week.

From the Herald.

King’s Wharf developer hopes to get permit soon

By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Tue. May 4 - 4:53 AM
The developer behind a $500-million development planned for the Dartmouth waterfront has leaped one hurdle and is hoping to clear another this week.

CN has given developer Francis Fares the green light to build a road across the rail line to access the Dartmouth Cove site that used to house the former Dartmouth Marine Slips. Fares had been has been unable to get a building permit from the city for his King’s Wharf project because the rail carrier was considering the proposal.

"I’m hoping that (Halifax Regional Municipality) will issue the permit this week, but I’m at their mercy," Fares said Monday.

The problem presented by the recent discovery of a 68-year-old sewer pipe running across the land where King’s Wharf is supposed to be built has yet to be resolved. The pipe, which ties into a nearby pumping station, is meant to carry sewage and storm overflow to Halifax Harbour in extremely wet weather. "We proposed a solution and I’m hoping it’s acceptable," Fares said.

The developer said he is willing to grant an easement for the pipe, which will have to be moved to another location on his land. If that’s acceptable, Fares said he is ready to start construction next week.Carl Yates, Halifax Water’s general manager, said the utility is now examining Fares proposal. "It’s possible" the King’s Wharf project could get municipal approval this week, Yates said.

"That pipe is there for a very crucial role that it plays in terms of managing wet weather overflows."

The water utility needs to make sure "the technical fix is there," Yates said. King’s Wharf is designed to include 1,300 condominium and rental units, a 200-room hotel and 300,000 square feet of office and commercial space. Construction was originally slated to start in January.

Fares plans simultaneous starts on a 90-unit apartment building and a 79-unit condominium building.

( clambie@herald.ca)

[FuzzyWuz]

I'm pretty surprised that this thread still says "Proposed".

[Phalanx]

Hopefully it will change to 'Under Construction' within a week or two... May as well just skip 'Approved' at this point.

[Wishblade]

Has anyone heard anything about this development and the pipeline issue? Im hoping thats resolved or will be resolved very soon.

[halifaxboyns]

Technically, until the Development Permit is issued - the project is still proposed. The issuance of the DP is what sinches that it's been approved - because HRM typically issues the Building and Development permits at the same time.

[Wishblade]

I noticed today that they were doing some digging on site. I can only assume that they are moving the drainage pipe :)

[isaidso]

So, are there final design renders? This is all glass?

[Jonovision]

The final design is only really out for the first five buildings I believe. The two starting construction any day as well as the second condo building and the small office building and finally the large 33 storey tower. All can be seen on kingswharf.ca

[DigitalNinja]

Awesome I can't wait to see this development get started!

[Wishblade]

Looking over the harbour from Halifax today, they are now demolishing the remaining buildings on site :).

[kph06]

I drove by tonight and so far just the front wall of the large building with the Dartmouth Marine Slips sign has been removed. All that is left is the top half of Dartmouth.

[fenwick16]

Has the permit been issued for this yet? The longer that it drags on, the more concerned that I get.

[musicman]

The smaller of the two buildings will be staying up for some time yet... Probably 4-5 years.... It is the sales office and Mr. Fares office as well..

[FuzzyWuz]

The smaller of the two buildings will be staying up for some time yet... Probably 4-5 years.... It is the sales office and Mr. Fares office as well..

There's a third building behind the big one isn't there?

[Jonovision]

There's a third building behind the big one isn't there?

Yes, and that one will be coming down along with the big one.
Here's a quick pic I snapped from my window.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3728.jpg?t=1275495992

[JET]

Yes, and that one will be coming down along with the big one.
Here's a quick pic I snapped from my window.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3728.jpg?t=1275495992

Nice shot, from the looks of that angle, you might be blocking a vewplane. :) JET

[Jonovision]

Nice shot, from the looks of that angle, you might be blocking a vewplane. :) JET

lol Nah, I'm just perched on the side of a hill. If a 2 storey house is blocking view planes then this city has real problems. I can't wait to watch the buildings go up from here though!

[JET]

lol Nah, I'm just perched on the side of a hill. If a 2 storey house is blocking view planes then this city has real problems. I can't wait to watch the buildings go up from here though!

That is a million dollar view, and soon to get much better. JET

[FuzzyWuz]

We need us some sweet webcam action on this site.

[DirtyHarrie]

Any news yet? I see the thread says approved but I haven't heard any news on it at all?

[fenwick16]

The permit for King's Wharf was granted yesterday and construction is to start with pile driving on Monday. According to the allnovascotia.com, the 33 storey tower should start in 2013 and be complete by 2015. 52 people have already put down $10,000 deposits on the 33 storey tower.

[Jonovision]

Great news!

[q12]

King’s Wharf gets underway today
Dartmouth waterfront project clears hurdles that created delays
Business editor Chris Lambie provides an update on the $500-million
development on the former Dartmouth marine slips.

Chronicle Herald
Fri. Jun 11 - 4:54 AM

CONSTRUCTION ON THE $500-million King’s Wharf project is getting underway on the Dartmouth waterfront.

Developer Francis Fares has been hampered by a series of problems that delayed the original January start date.

"We just got the building permit this morning," Fares said Thursday.

"We’re starting tomorrow and driving pile on Monday."

He plans simultaneous starts on two 14-storey structures — a 90-unit apartment building and an 80-unit condominium building. The buildings will each cost about $20 million.

Condominiums sales began to "linger a little bit" in February and March due to construction delays.

"The uncertainty is not good," Fares said.

First the developer had to wait while CN contemplated whether he could build a road across the rail line to access the Dartmouth Cove site that used to house the former Dartmouth Marine Slips.

Then the discovery of a 68-year-old sewer pipe running across the land where King’s Wharf is slated to be built presented another hurdle. The pipe, which ties into a nearby pumping station, is meant to carry sewage and storm overflow to Halifax Harbour in extremely wet weather.

"The pipe was a most difficult issue to work (out)," Fares said.

"I had to place a bond, like a certified cheque, with the water commission to replace that pipe at my own expense."

The bond for $111,621 was handed over to Halifax Water, the city’s water utility. Fares said he is supposed to do the work to replace the old pipe, but the bond is meant to pay for the job in case Halifax Water gets stuck doing it.

Just over half of the condominium building has been sold, Fares said, predicting sales would improve with the construction start. Prices on unsold units start at $279,900 and climb to $650,000.

"There were a lot of people sitting on the fence and I’m sure they will jump because our pricing will be jumping soon."

People are already signing up for the rental building, he said, "but we won’t be in a position to rent probably for a year and a half."

Construction on a second 80-unit condominium building will start when he has sold 80 per cent of the first one.

"The second condo building will be 10 per cent more expensive than the first building."

King’s Wharf is designed to include 1,300 condominium and rental units, a 200-room hotel and 300,000 square feet of office and commercial space.

The signature building for the project will be 33 storeys tall. It will contain about 180 condos, as well as ground-floor commercial space, and should be under construction by late 2015, Fares said.

He couldn’t pinpoint when work will start on the project’s 10-storey, 100,000-square-foot office building. He doesn’t have a tenant for that part of King’s Wharf.

"We’re under the mercy of the market conditions and absorption rate and we’ll see how it goes," Fares said.

[JustinMacD]

Niceeeeeeeeeeeeee

[halifaxboyns]

This is great news - that it's going ahead.
I've already been in talks with them about other buildings and sniffing out what kind of deposits I would have to put down. :)

[-Harlington-]

really looking forward to seeing this take form,
good for dartmouth:cool:

[JustinMacD]

Dartmouth has so much potential. This is such good news.

[FuzzyWuz]

I've been down to take a look. Lots of filling taking place on the building A lot, where the boats used to dock.

[hfxtradesman]

Now that this is a go, lets see how many more highrises that are sitting on the fence will start up.

[Jonovision]

Here it is! Finally under construction!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3759.jpg?t=1276308033

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3758.jpg?t=1276308080

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3757.jpg?t=1276308124

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3755.jpg?t=1276308140

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3754.jpg?t=1276308155

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3753.jpg?t=1276308171

[Jonovision]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3833.jpg?t=1276532145

[fenwick16]

It will be encouraging to see cement being poured.

[FuzzyWuz]

It was quite thrilling to drive King street and see the pile driver not in the same place and then see that they were driving the third pile while an excavator worked at the seawall.

woohoo!!!

[DirtyHarrie]

It will be encouraging to see cement being poured.

It will be encouraging to see "concrete" being poured.

One of my old instructors hated when people said stuff like that lol

*I dont mean to be offensive at all, thats just what popped into my head when i seen it

[Jonovision]

I've been listening to the pile driving all morning!

[fenwick16]

It will be encouraging to see "concrete" being poured.

One of my old instructors hated when people said stuff like that lol

*I dont mean to be offensive at all, thats just what popped into my head when i seen it

I am only slightly offended - yes you are right since concrete is Portland cement, sand, gravel, etc. which is what they will probably be pouring at King's Wharf. Although some of us use it interchangeably - for example the "cement pond" in the Beverly Hillbillies (that was their swimming pool, for any who are too young to have seen that TV series).

I can't wait to see the concrete being poured for the 33 storey tower (it will be another 3 years or so).

[beyeas]

It will be encouraging to see "concrete" being poured.

One of my old instructors hated when people said stuff like that lol

*I dont mean to be offensive at all, thats just what popped into my head when i seen it

yeah I took a course in engineering materials science once, taught by a civil, and he would get so wound up when people would refer to concrete as just cement. Of course, he also would say things like "Good concrete is like good scotch, you only need a little bit of water." LOL

[Jonovision]

I walked by the site yesterday afternoon it was bustling. And the most interesting part was I was on the new bridge over the canal watching the site for about 5 minutes and there were at least a dozen people who came by and stopped for a minute or two to watch or take a picture. People are excited. You could feel it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3839.jpg?t=1276784737

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3838.jpg?t=1276784754

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3840.jpg?t=1276784774

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3841.jpg?t=1276784789

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3842.jpg?t=1276784803

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/IMG_3845.jpg?t=1276784819