Downtown Phoenix desperately needs help on the weekend!

[HX_Guy]

...and I'll tell you why.

This past Saturday my girlfriend and I were coming back from Mesa around 3:20 and wanted to grab something to eat. Seeing how we would pass by downtown on the I-10, I figured why not stop and grab a bite there. I wanted a sandwich from Tammie Coe's while my girlfriend wanted something from Sticklers, both places that we've eaten at during the week before. Tammie Coe's was first up and...closed! Ok...well, let's try Sticklers, maybe they are open. Nope! Sure aren't! Ok...now we were getting a bit frustrated which made the hunger seem worse. I though...I know, let's try that new Sonoma Grill at 1st St and Van Buren that open up not too long ago, they must be open. Who wants to guess if they were? To finish it off, the Quiznos at the corner of Adams and Central had also just closed at 3:00.

We ended up stopping at the Starbucks at Central and Adams, getting a coffee, sandwich, and some pastries. The Starbucks itself was actually pretty busy with people sitting outside and inside, some on a laptop, others were visitors from out of town with maps in their hands trying to make their way around. One couple actually asked the casher at Starbucks "Where is everyone?" The cashier replied "It's pretty dead here on the weekend, you have to go to Tempe or Scottsdale."

As we were leaving, we went drove down to 2nd St, in front of the Convention Center where some kids convention was letting out because there were a ton of parents with their kids and we noticed a few restaurants on 2nd St were open, a grill place and Einstein Bros, plus a couple off of places on Adams, Matador and the one next to it.

I know this has been discussed to death just about...but I don't know what the solution here needs to be. I for one will most likely not go back downtown for something to eat during the daytime weekend hours. Yes there are a lot of places that are open, but there are too many that are not. Show me another place in Phoenix where they shut down for the weekend, especially a restaurant.

I know the places aren't open simply because there aren't enough people on the streets. There aren't enough people on the streets because places aren't open. So what do you do?

[tempedude]

:previous:

be patient...the time is coming soon...when its not going to be that way. I agree though, the stores need to stay open to attract customers. They have fallen into too much of a routine to close early.

[PHX31]

Maybe try going somewhere downtown that is not geared strictly towards the office worker/government crowd.

Instead of trying Sticklers, go to Matt's Big Breakfast or Pallatte (I think they are open, although they are a breakfast/lunch place only). Seems like the places directly downtown, especially near a courthouse would definitely be closed (Tammy Coe/Quizno's, that's another story). You're right though, there needs to be places open.

[HX_Guy]

Matt's Big Breakfast was closed as well. It seemed that the only things open were right around the convention center...and I mean right around it, because after all, the Quiznos at Central and Adams isn't exactly very far from the convention center.

It it true that the Starbucks at the same intersection just recently started staying open on Saturday/Sundays? I remember reading that somewhere. Although the schedule on the door said they were closing at 4:00 PM.

[HooverDam]

Palatte was probably open, Calabria Italian Deli may have been open, McAlpines (7th st a bit north of McDowell) was definitely open. Fate was probably open, Seamus McCaffrey's, Alice Cooperstown and Coach and Willies were probably open as well.

I know what you mean though, many places still close too early, especially on the weekends, its just a time thing. A new place called the Nile Cafe opened recently in the Artisan Lofts row, and I wanted to try it for lunch today, but they were closed at noon! Once more folks are living downtown, this will all change.

[Vicelord John]

everything at the arizona center... all EIGHT restaurants were open at the time you came.

I also know that Majerle's, Networks, Ikon, Seamus, La Tolteca, Cooperstown, Coach and Willies, Jackson's, Carly's, and other places that I cant think of because I've made my point were all open.

[HooverDam]

everything at the arizona center... all EIGHT restaurants were open at the time you came.

But lets be honest, Mi Amigos, Hooters ,Starbucks, My Big Fat Greek Restaurant, Uno's, Subway, etc are hardly where you want to go if you are going out of your way to have a 'downtown' meal. You might as well go to Arrowhead mall or wherever else if those are the types of places you want. The Arizona Center has some nice things going for it (landscaping, a decent amount of people there), but the shops and eateries leave a LOT to be desired.

[HX_Guy]

And we wanted a quick sandwich, hence Tammie Coe's or Sticklers, not a sit down place. The point is, NOTHING should be closed, especially on a weekend.

[tempedude]

And we wanted a quick sandwich, hence Tammie Coe's or Sticklers, not a sit down place. The point is, NOTHING should be closed, especially on a weekend.
Perhaps we should all posse up and go around to each of the busineses and threaten to break their legs if they do close next time. That should get 'em in line.:P :haha:
:D

[andrewkfromaz]

Carly's in particular is highly recommended, probably better than Tammy Coe's and just down Roosevelt. It's a sit-down place, but you can be in and out of there pretty quick, and they have some good sandwiches.

I concur with what others have said that downtown WILL continue to evolve - some retail will go away (hopefully most of the options in the AZ Center) and be replaced. With rents not as affordable as in the more run-down parts of town, and with demand being all over the map, downtown is going to continue to be a rough retail market.

One thing I think we should keep in mind is quality vs. convenience. Small, unique places (Pizzeria Bianco comes to mind) have to limit their hours somewhat. Chris Bianco bakes his bread, mixes his pizza dough, makes his own mozzarella, purchases a range of ingredients, pick ingredients, and spends five nights a week at his restaurant.
Matt Pool, owner of The Roosevelt (bar on 3rd St.) and Matt's Big Breakfast, has an even crazier schedule, with Matt's opening at 6:30 five days per week and the Roosevelt opening at 5 and closing at 2 on weekends. Of course, he's not there all the time, but it's still a load. Jack-in-the-Box, on the other hand, is open every day. I would rather put up with places being closed on certain days than eat fast food all the time, but that's just me.

[kevininlb]

The bottom line is that people need a reason to go downtown and I'm not so sure restaurants alone will do it. I go downtown almost every weekend and it's really disheartening to see just about everything closed while a handful of tourists stumble around wondering where everyone has gone.

This is a problem L.A. still deals with even though its downtown is a million times more active than it was only a few years ago, despite the addition of hundreds/thousands of condos/apts, Staples Center and a pretty happening museum.

Thinking about cities where people walk around in droves -- Chicago, Long Beach, NYC, for example -- the reason people head out from the burbs is very simple - stores.

I know a lot of people on this site don't like the idea of just throwing in chains when people can just as easily get them anywhere else. But a street full of stores with chains and one-of-a-kinds is what gets people out of there cars and walking around. What follows, of course, is that restaurants stay open and other things open up, like galleries.

I haven't lived in Phoenix long enough to know if there have been proposals for long stretches of stores (not inside a mall setting), but I think that's what's glaringly missing. I mean, personally, I hate shopping (avoid it at all costs). But when I lived in LB and the other cities I mentioned I would, like a lot of other people, just walk around, look in windows, poke my head in a few places and stop in a restaurant or bar. You know, sort of like Mill Ave.

I don't remember if the Jackson Street district idea includes much in the way of shopping. But somewhere it's needed, desperately, I think.

[Vicelord John]

But lets be honest, Mi Amigos, Hooters ,Starbucks, My Big Fat Greek Restaurant, Uno's, Subway, etc are hardly where you want to go if you are going out of your way to have a 'downtown' meal. You might as well go to Arrowhead mall or wherever else if those are the types of places you want. The Arizona Center has some nice things going for it (landscaping, a decent amount of people there), but the shops and eateries leave a LOT to be desired.

Sam's Cafe is one of the most consistent restaurants I know of. It's not fancy, but its a wonderful informal restaurant. If all you wanted was a sandwich, you could have gone to Bar Smith, Subway, DV8, Pane Bianco, etc.

[Phxbyrd211]

Even though it closed down I actually really liked Lombardi's. Also, when I would eat there on a weekend it seemed pretty full. I know I did my part at least by having a Christmas party there in 2005. I also used to like their food court quite a bit. When the place first opened there were some seriously good fine dinning places upstairs.

[HX_Guy]

Sam's Cafe is one of the most consistent restaurants I know of. It's not fancy, but its a wonderful informal restaurant. If all you wanted was a sandwich, you could have gone to Bar Smith, Subway, DV8, Pane Bianco, etc.

That Subway at Central and Monroe has the worst sandwiches I've ever had at a Subway. The ingredients just don't taste fresh.

And someone mentioned Mill Ave. I was just down there about an hour ago, it's been a while that I was there and I had forgotten how wonderful it is and how it has a totally different feel then other parts of Phoenix. That whole area of Tempe actually feels like another city...almost like San Diego with the lake, the new high rises, the park. It seemed quite a few new stores have opened up on Mill since I was last there, namely Abercrombie and Fitch and American Apparel , plus some smaller retail shops and a few new restaurants. The Centerpoint towers are looking great and add to the nice city feel. When a grocery store finally comes to the area, it really is a place where you have just about everything you need within walking distance. Harkins Theatres for movies, Borders for books, countless restaurants and bars, coffee and ice cream shops, and a few retail options. Phoenix in my opinion will need a minimum of 10 years to reach the point that Tempe is at now.

[kevininlb]

:previous: Well, I'm hoping it doesn't take 10 years. If someone put their mind to it, downtown could have a strip of stores and restaurants and activity within a year or two. Places like Desert Ridge (whether you dislike it or not) are being built with this concept in mind, and it's working. You can't go to Desert Ridge on a weekend without it being packed and full of activity.

[Phxbyrd211]

10 years to beat Tempe? No way, 5 maybe less! By 2011 the light rail will be complete, convention and Sheraton operational, Monroe and Summit full, CityScape nearly built out, CPE occupied, ASU at almost 10,000 students, Courthouse in place, Jackson Street coming together, likely Jet, Omega, and Lurhs hotel finished or under construction and a whole host of other infill and small business ventures taking off. This is just a conservative list. The odds are with the next real-estate boom 4 or so years away there will be dozens more projects breaking ground that we don't even know about. The October First Friday in 2011 should be like Open week in Scottsdale or Gem week in Tucson, or Flower week in Philadelphia. People, energy, things to do, events taking place.

[HX_Guy]

I agree, you *could* have a strip of stores and restaurants within a year or two, but I think what is going to take longer are the residential developments that are needed to put people on the streets. Of course Summit at Copper Square, 44 Monroe, CityScape and hopefully Omega will go a long way toward that, but again...years away before all of those are complete. Downtown Phoenix is huge compared to Mill Ave, so even if you have all those residential developments happen, they aren't grouped together like they would be on Mill Ave. Summit at Copper Square for example is quite a walk from 44 Monroe, especially since there is so much dead space between the two. I really don't think it will feel like a success until most of the blocks have street level retail. Actually, it wouldn't even need to be every block, but maybe a row or route of street front retail. CityScape will definitely help to get retail and restaurants downtown, but again that will be a couple blocks of the many. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I do think it will take several years of project after project until it feels connected.

[HX_Guy]

10 years to beat Tempe? No way, 5 maybe less! By 2011 the light rail will be complete, convention and Sheraton operational, Monroe and Summit full, CityScape nearly built out, CPE occupied, ASU at almost 10,000 students, Courthouse in place, Jackson Street coming together, likely Jet, Omega, and Lurhs hotel finished or under construction and a whole host of other infill and small business ventures taking off. This is just a conservative list. The odds are with the next real-estate boom 4 or so years away there will be dozens more projects breaking ground that we don't even know about. The October First Friday in 2011 should be like Open week in Scottsdale or Gem week in Tucson, or Flower week in Philadelphia. People, energy, things to do, events taking place.

I like your optimism but I can't agree that all those projects will make downtown Phoenix as connected as Mill Ave feels. Like many other big cities have, you need connection between all these projects. It doesn't work if they feel like they are stand alone projects. Again, that's why I think it will take several years (10+) until it really gels together. Yes all those projects you mentioned are a huge part of it, but there need to be a lot more infill projects on the ground floor of every building downtown. I'm guessing, and hoping, that with all the new residents downtown and new businesses, that the video stores, laundromats, pharmacies, office supplies stores, book stores, cafes, gyms, weight loss center, chiropractic offices, ice cream shops, etc etc etc follow.

[Vicelord John]

That Subway at Central and Monroe has the worst sandwiches I've ever had at a Subway. The ingredients just don't taste fresh.


dude, you're complaining that no places are open, and people have thrown out like 20 options and you just say you dont like them. So tell me, are no places open and downtown needs help, or are no places open that you feel like eating?;)

[tempedude]

We need to remember how much ground floor retail is coming with what ASU is doing along with several of the new towers being built soon...CPE...the Jet...Cityscape[900million invested in this alone]with up to 5 levels of retail...the Jackson St Entertainment District etc. Those along with the 600mill civic center expansion, and the addition of 1000 more hotel rooms from the much maligned Sheraton, and the opening of the light rail.... these will help to put many more poeple on the downtown streets...sooner rather than later.

and don't forget about Hanney's or the Hotel Monroe or the new high rise condos...the list goes on....and we can't forget the Biosciences campus downtown either. Huh, to me things are looking really good. Don't forget about the Urban Form project either.

[tempedude]

Im not going to start another thread to say this, so Ill state it here. I live in Tempe and see Mill Ave almost everyday. Mill is ok, but quite honestly I am more excited for what downtown Phoenix and the central city has going on for it, more than whats going on in Tempe. However, what is going on in Tempe none other than outstanding also.

[Phxbyrd211]

Ok HX,

You’re not talking about the totality of DT but in specific walk able sections like Mill; alright I get that. Fine! Then my answer to you is that the Jackson street district will be up and running in less than 10 years. It will have dense, walk able retail, dining, and entertainment near various housing and employment centers. But more importantly is that I have very high expectations for Jefferson st. I think it will have a different mix, aesthetic and demographic of Jackson st. but it can be almost equally active. What's more, 1st and 3rd streets are both planned to be part of the Jackson St. design. Much better than "Copper Square", perhaps a "J streets" moniker can be adopted. The two streets are quite close to each other and create a fairly easy area to get around. On game days Jackson will probably have to be closed to car traffic altogether. In certain ways the sparsety of street life in other areas will act to funnel people and amenities into this 4-5 block neighborhood because of the government buildings to the west and 7th st. to the east. The garage mahal and 3rd st garage probably will end up wrapped and I anticipate the Collier Center being reworked after CityScape is complete.

Further, I think a second such conglomeration will exist near ASU around Taylor St. It organically connects to a revamped Arizona Center that could eventually include one or more Trump developed properties. Like most college areas it will be less formal and inexpensive but will compensate with more energy and later hours. In between the two will be some really interesting pockets like Monroe and Adams Streets when the construction is finished.

Finally, you're crazy if you think some long time establishments that have been allowed to be mediocre for so long will not have to improve and bring in new tenants once the activity begins. This includes but is not limited to the Adams, Hyatt (excluding Networks) Matador, Singh and others.

While no stretch alone may be able to out do Mill Ave., looked at objectively the same feeling will be achieved in DT Phoenix.