Vancouver extempts Muslims from no smoking bylaw

[mr.x]

This is what Bruce Allen has been saying all along. Something is very wrong with this country.


Vancouver Muslims Smoke, Canucks Don’t

Sep 27th, 2007 by marc moore

Mark Steyn writes that a proposed city bylaw in Vancouver, Canada would exempt Muslim “hookah lounges” from the no-smoking ordinance:

In Vancouver, infidels can’t smoke but Muslims can:

Vancouver’s hookah-parlour owners are celebrating after winning an exemption Thursday from a proposed new bylaw that will ban smoking on most sidewalks in commercial districts, in bus shelters and even in taxis passing through Vancouver.

In giving the bylaw unanimous approval-in-principle, Vancouver city council members bowed to arguments that hookah lounges…are essential for immigrants from hookah-smoking cultures, because it helps them deal with the depression common for newcomers and gives them places like they have at home.

This is ridiculous on several levels.

First, government entities should not be in the business of banning any legal action and smoking is, for the moment, still within the domain of the permitted. By all means, allow us non-wheezers to have clean spaces to eat, drink, and recreate in. I despise smoking - it is disgusting. But city-wide bans? That is not the purpose of government. **

Second, any law, whether good, bad, or indifferent, should be applied equally to all people under its sway. Wasn’t that the purpose of civil rights marches, to eliminate preferential treatment based on skin color? Now it’s suddenly acceptable to extend “courtesies” to a small minority based on their religious preference?

Third, though immigrants to Vancouver may well be homesick, particularly during the rather dreary winters that seem to last forever in the Pacific Northwest, that is not a valid reason for applying a double-standard to public behavior. Indeed, the anxiety immigrants experience is a necessary precursor to assimilation into the culture of their new home. Temporary disorientation is normal, expected, and on the whole, quite desirable. Those who adapt to it become better citizens; those who fail will return home.

Which is as it should be.





And what about my culture?

September 27, 2007 | Jay Currie

Vancouver’s hookah-parlour owners are celebrating after winning an exemption Thursday from a proposed new bylaw that will ban smoking on most sidewalks in commercial districts, in bus shelters and even in taxis passing through Vancouver.

In giving the bylaw unanimous approval-in-principle, Vancouver city council members bowed to arguments that hookah lounges provide an important cultural space for the city’s Muslims and granted them a temporary exemption.

- Vancouver Sun



OK, now I am really, really angry.

At one point my local was the British Ex-Servicemen’s Club out on Kingsway. Cheap beer, decent pool table, a bunch of old guys who had, foolishly enough, fought for King and Country and rather liked popping in for an evening’s couple of pints and a cigarette or seventy. They came from a culture which, well, smoked cigarettes.

Unfortunately they were white and British. Which does not cut it any more.

Emad Yacoub, who runs five restaurants in Vancouver, also attended Thursday’s meeting to ask council to protect hookah lounges.

“I support no smoking on the patios,” he said, saying it will make it easier for him since he won’t have to settle fights between his smoking and non-smoking customers.

But he said hookah lounges are essential for immigrants from hookah-smoking cultures, because it helps them deal with the depression common for newcomers and gives them places like they have at home.

Essential for immigrants from hookah smoking cultures…right, well, England was a cigarette and pipe smoking culture. Working class Canada was a cigarette smoking culture. A bunch of Greek guys I know who own restaurants in Vancouver come from cigarette smoking cultures. Punk rockers are a cigarette smoking culture But, hey, they are not Muslims and are unlikely to, in the midst of their depression, blow something up.

Watching this sort of craven pandering is just sad. Up until now the smoke Nazis have been beating the “health of the workers drum”…but, apparently, the health of the poor, likely Muslim, staffers in the hookah cultural clubs doesn’t matter.

One of the problems with multi-cult posturing and cultural sensitivity is that it leads to such brilliantly racist outcomes. By creating a special exemption for Muslims - who do seem to be the only immigrant group actively demanding these sorts of “cultural accommodations” we are basically declaring our Muslim citizens worthy of special treatment and, at the same time, unworthy of the health concerns which are purported to be the basis of general smoking bans.

But the bigger problem is that we are granting to noisy newcomers the rights which we have taken away from men who fought for Canada or England. And that should worry all of us a lot.

[Canadian Mind]

I'm gonna do what all the other cultures have done to us whites and bust out the race card.

This is racist bullshit. It's completely unfair that one small group should be allowed exemption from a general ban. they are in no way superior, and they will suffer the same withdrawal symptoms as everyone else when the public smoking ban comes into effect. Withdrawal or homesickness is no reason for exemption. If you are homesick, go back home.

[Nutterbug]

I'm gonna do what all the other cultures have done to us whites and bust out the race card.

Race card or terror threat?

I think there's some spinelessness among city council members.

[fever]

The first article implies that the bylaw discriminates because the activity is primarily enjoyed by a religious minority and ignores the different method of consuming the tobacco. I'm not sure why this needs to be seen as a religious issue. Smoking at a hookah joint isn't part of a religious ceremony, nor is the practise confined to a single religion.

While smoking a hookah can't be good for you, the smoke is filtered so it's probably not as bad as smoking cigarettes. It doesn't smell bad, for one...

[Nutterbug]

Let them drink opium too.

[Canadian Mind]

I'm assuming you are the one that voted yes.

[Nutterbug]

No, I was being sarcastic.

[chris]

Are you kidding me? What the f...

Vancouverites...let ur city officials know!!! Let ur voice be heard...don't stand for this!

[Canadian Mind]

I know you was being sarcastic dude. I was hoping you voted yes sarcastically too. :(

[vanhattan]

Well, I agree, exemptions like this should not be made for "special groups". It is religion run amuck or rather a wimpy council run pc crazy. However, as a former smoker and one who still hates the cigarette Nazis, I am glad that someone still has the right to smoke in peace. Good for them, I may even join them to get some good second hand smoke.

[Canadian Mind]

Everyone has the right to smoke in peace AT HOME.

[osirisboy]

the city is treating one group differently based on religion, hmm. im pretty sure thats discrimination. funny how in one instance groups bitch and complain about not being treated fairly but then turn around and demand special treatment.

however, the city also exempted cigar store smoking rooms i believe too. also stupid. either way i think these two exemptions are just temporary.

[theman23]

So if other smoking lounges are also exempted, what was the point of having such an inflammatory thread title/original post? "OMG the moslems are gonna blow us up"? I would expect more from a moderator. No wonder Vancouver is known for being so racially divided - you people are just begging for ways to hate each other.

[SpongeG]

according to my muslim friend - smoking like alcohol is not allowed in their religion and teachings

its part of the persian culture perhaps and most of whom just happen to be muslim...

bizarre

[Canadian Mind]

So if other smoking lounges are also exempted, what was the point of having such an inflammatory thread title/original post? "OMG the moslems are gonna blow us up"? I would expect more from a moderator. No wonder Vancouver is known for being so racially divided - you people are just begging for ways to hate each other.

If you are going to bitch out a moderator... one would at least expect you to get your facts straight. never did the moderator post in the title that the muslims are going to blow anyone up. he might have said it in a post, and he might not have. But you know what, I don't care. You know why? because he is entitled to freedom of speech, just as the rest of us are. Only reason Vancouver seems so divided is that we all embrace that freedom, thus making devisions apparent. But you know what, we have always worked around those divisions to make one of the best cities in the fucking world to live in.

please get lost if all you plan on doing is stirring up shit.

[Lee_Haber8]

That's funny, there's a smoking bylaw in Montreal and there are still hookah bars. While hookah is a form of smoking there is really no second hand smoke - the main reason behind smoking bylaws. I've been inside a hookah bar and you don't get the same unpleasant and disgusting feel you do in a smoke filled bar. I think it is for this reason that it should be exempted, not on any stupid racial or cultural grounds

[theman23]

If you are going to bitch out a moderator... one would at least expect you to get your facts straight. never did the moderator post in the title that the muslims are going to blow anyone up. he might have said it in a post, and he might not have. But you know what, I don't care. You know why? because he is entitled to freedom of speech, just as the rest of us are. Only reason Vancouver seems so divided is that we all embrace that freedom, thus making devisions apparent. But you know what, we have always worked around those divisions to make one of the best cities in the fucking world to live in.

please get lost if all you plan on doing is stirring up shit.


I'm not allowed to call him out for "stirring shit up"? And I'm not complaining about an opinion..,, I'm complaining him completely misrepresenting this entire issue to make it as controversial as possible. No where did he mention that other bars have gotten exemptions, or that hookah has nothing to do with muslims. If he did, that would have made the issue mute. In fact, I would probably agree with him if what he posted was true. But it isn't. And simply waiving the "freedom of speech" card doesn't protect you from criticism because guess what? I have the exact same freedom of speech.

[Nutterbug]

That's funny, there's a smoking bylaw in Montreal and there are still hookah bars. While hookah is a form of smoking there is really no second hand smoke - the main reason behind smoking bylaws. I've been inside a hookah bar and you don't get the same unpleasant and disgusting feel you do in a smoke filled bar. I think it is for this reason that it should be exempted, not on any stupid racial or cultural grounds

So what happens to all the smoke that they inhale? Don't they blow it out with their next breath?

What about all the carcinogens that come from the burned tobacco? Don't they get out into the atmosphere, even if the smell of the smoke is masked in some way?

[Canadian Mind]

And I'm not allowed to call him out for "stirring shit up"? And I'm not complaining about an opinion, I'm complaining him completely misrepresenting this entire issue to make it as controversial as possible. Simply waiving the "freedom of speech" card doesn't protect you from criticism because guess what? I have the exact same freedom of speech.

again, I think it is his right to express why he feels this is occuring. it is your freedom and mine to call him out on what he says and disagree with it, doesn't mean you should drag his status as a mod on this site into it. I fail to see the need why you would have to bring it up, even if it is your right.

Now, how does this sound; could you explain why you feel the issue is represented, and how could you represent it in a more proper manner?

[Nutterbug]

So if other smoking lounges are also exempted, what was the point of having such an inflammatory thread title/original post? "OMG the moslems are gonna blow us up"?

Complain to the Muslims that give them that reputation.

I don't think they're that over the top as to actually commit terror over it, but those who make the rules may have a bit colder feet about even the slightest possibility.

[theman23]

He presented the issue as if Muslims were getting special treatment by the government. Absolutely not true.
1) Muslims aren't allowed to smoke. The entire idea of their being muslim hookah bars is completely ironic. It's like having a Catholic brothel.
2) Several cigar lounges recieved exemption from the smoking bylaw too. No special treatment here.

Complain to the Muslims that give them that reputation.

I don't think they're that over the top as to actually commit terror over it, but those who make the rules may have a bit colder feet about even the slightest possibility.
Yeah, I'm sure you'll get a lot of muslim extremists complaining about the shutdown of hookah lounges. Please. If anything, shutting them down would have pleased the extremists.

[SpongeG]

the one hookah place i can think of on Davie street is also a cigarette shop

I have to say if there are places for people to go and drink alcohol why can't there be places to go smoke? just smoke - nothing else - no food no drinking etc.

People are would be well aware what they could be exposed to etc.

What i think is absurd is the whole muslims right to smoke - because smoking is against muslim teachings - so why they are approaching with that angle is a mistake for their argument

[fever]

I'm beginning to think that most on here don't know what a hookah is. It's basically a bong. The smoke is filtered through water, which removes the smell and probably a good portion of the carcinogens.

There are two hookah places I know of: the Persian Tea House on Davie at Granville and another on Georgia near Jervis. I've only been to the Persian Tea House. They give you a hookah with a piece of what looks like a hot coal on top and tea.

This bylaw was passed for health reasons and while they did receive the exemption for cultural reasons, I think there's a good chance that the health risks associated with smoking cigarettes don't apply to hookahs. It seems that the articles want to make this controversial by framing it as council favouring Islam over other religions when it isn't actually a religious activity at all. Council probably could have made the exemption pending more research into the health risks associated with second hand hookah smoke, instead of culture. Either way, I think this sensationalism is ridiculous.

[bugsy]

Because it's not racist when some minority group has special rights amirite?

[MistyMountainHop]

Why would anyone want to go to a hookah bar if they didn't smoke?

[deasine]

might as well add first nations to the list as well... stupid...

[CrooklynDodger]

Either way, although I agree for ANY exemption for ANYONE from the smoke NAZI's, I think that the point is simple, YOU MAY SMOKE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY IF THE OWNER ALLOWS IT. Public property, such as hospitals, ICBC, etc, no. But Joe's Bar and Grill, Yes, Because the government doesn't own it, and it has yet to prove Enviromental Tabacco smoke is harmful. If you don't like that Joe's Bar allows smoking, you as the consumer can chose not to go there. Simply easy and democratic.

[Nutterbug]

Either way, although I agree for ANY exemption for ANYONE from the smoke NAZI's, I think that the point is simple, YOU MAY SMOKE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY IF THE OWNER ALLOWS IT. Public property, such as hospitals, ICBC, etc, no. But Joe's Bar and Grill, Yes, Because the government doesn't own it, and it has yet to prove Enviromental Tabacco smoke is harmful. If you don't like that Joe's Bar allows smoking, you as the consumer can chose not to go there. Simply easy and democratic.

Minors shouldn't be allowed entry into establishments where smoking takes place then.

[CC420]

Either way, although I agree for ANY exemption for ANYONE from the smoke NAZI's, I think that the point is simple, YOU MAY SMOKE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY IF THE OWNER ALLOWS IT. Public property, such as hospitals, ICBC, etc, no. But Joe's Bar and Grill, Yes, Because the government doesn't own it, and it has yet to prove Enviromental Tabacco smoke is harmful. If you don't like that Joe's Bar allows smoking, you as the consumer can chose not to go there. Simply easy and democratic.

Well said. I'm sick of this government micromanagement. I am not a smoker but give these people a break. Soon were going to make them wear smoker identification so everyone knows they're smokers and can be harrassed and looked down upon by the holier-than-thou non-smokers who have seen the light. ;)

[giallo]

dp

[eduardo88]

Why would anyone want to go to a hookah bar if they didn't smoke?

Haha here in Germany there are hookah bars with non-smoker sections as "required by law"...

[eduardo88]

Minors shouldn't be allowed entry into establishments where smoking takes place then.

That's ridiculous, just like i find the fact minors can't enter bars in canada stupid. Then again I also find that that smoking bans should be illegal. It's a restriction of you freedom, it should be up to the owner of a restaurant/bar to decide whether or not he wants to allow smoking on his property. I have nothing against banning smoking in public places, but to restrict someone's freedom from choosing what goes on on his property is just ridiculous. Smoking cigarettes is legal, so until that is changed you should be able to smoke if you have permission from a bar or restaurant's owner. I do think though that a non-smoker's section should be available.

[Kilgore Trout]

I can't believe this thread has gone this far without more than a couple of people pointing out that HOOKAHS ARE NOT MUSLIM. They are Indian in origin and are used widely by people from South Asia to the Middle East and Southern Europe.

Saying that Muslims have received a special exemption from the smoking law is patently false. Anyone can walk into a hookah bar and smoke. As fever and theman23 pointed out, there's nothing Islamic about hookah --- the fact that many people who smoke it are Muslim is like saying that drinking beer is a Catholic activity because so many Irish and Bavarians do it.

[Kilgore Trout]

Incidentally, it's not just hookah bars. Cigar bars are also exempted from the law, and Vancouver is far from the only city to do so. The same is true for Montreal and New York.

[osirisboy]

the city of vancouver has just reversed its earlier decision to exempt hookah bars and cigar bars from the smoking bylaw!!! they said they had to so the city's bylaw would now be in line with the province's. the new bylaw is set to take effect march 31, 2008

this is where i read it:
http://www.nowpublic.com/politics/vancouvers-hookah-parlours-lose-smoking-exemption