CBE Education Centre | 61M | 12F | Under Construction

[Wooster]

Here is the Calgary Board of Education Centre. It will be the new headquarters for the Board. The Carl Safran School is being completely restored

The community has been working with this project for years now. A lot of compromises have been made over the process to arrive where it is now.

A few things have yet to be resolved. Including the materials. The City and community are pushing for high quality contemporary materials of course. In my opinion the materials will make or break this project. The landscape plan, particularly the path diagonal from 8th street to 13th avenue is still being negotiated. There is also a rather awkward blank wall on the end of the conference and board room building facing west on 12th Ave. There are some landscaping, and other options being explored including utilizing the old gymnasium door feature as a possible solution. Access out of the building to the west is also another issue.

The community put on a design charrette for the park that will be the rest of the block to the west (we saw the article about that the other day). We're trying to work on getting an exit from the building to spill onto the park.

It is a P3 project with Bentall Reality, the Board of Education design by Gibbs Gage. Located at 12th ave and 8th street SW. I'll be able to get some more view of the project soon.

I quite like the podium level. The negative transparent podium is quite attractive and works well for the site. The south end of the main floor will be a restaurant with an outdoor padio. The rest of the 12th and 8th street interface of the admin building will be retail.

Anyway, here it is. What do you think?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/safranrender1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/safranrender2.jpg

[Rusty van Reddick]

Call me an idiot, but I think it's completely gorgeous.

[onanewday]

I thought the building could have been more inspiring. Given it is supposed be the CBE headquarters I thought it should reflect creativity, innovation and learning. This does not. Say what you will about their old site, at least in its time, it said something and you knew what it was. I think it was a bold statement for Calgary at the time. Any oil company would look at home in this place. I think of the Children's Hospital and how it managed to reflect what is was about. This should too. It is an important 'government' building in the city. I was very disappointed.

[Grendel]

Tough to tell much from just these two renderings, but here are my thoughts:

1) it looks like the view of the Carl Safran school will be blocked from 8 st. I walk past that corner often, and like the relief from the canyons of high-rises that the schoolyard provides. It's a shame that the new building will create just another wall of offices there.

2) the building itself looks awkward and uninspired. It seems to me (in the renderings at least) to totally overwhelm the centre of the redevelopment, the historic school in scale and especially in mass. Obviously, the architects have attempted to employ glass walls to reduce the perception of mass, but to my eye at least, it looks like they've failed. As a matter of fact, in effect, the new building seems awfully reminiscent of the east side of the current BoE building with it's massive overhanging upper floors.

3) it's nice that they tried to build in some retail along 12 ave and 8 st. Time will tell whether or not they get good tenants who will build some vitality into the street-level interface. Experience, however, seems to suggest that more than likely, we'll get another Starbucks and another windswept, unoccupied patio, as is usually the case with newer, characterless buildings.

4) Hopefully, the landscaping around the site will create a nice intimate campus feel around the complex; again, it's tough to tell from these renderings if that's been planned for at all.

Overall, I think it'll wind up being a typical government building, ie, bad.

[skrish]

I voted indifferent. The design doesn't grab me, but I don't think it is bad looking either.

[Arch26]

Typical Gibbs Gage. Boring, conservative, and uninspired, but not necessarily ugly either. I hoped for more from a public institution like CBE. Two renderings isn't really much to judge a project like this on though, and it IS still pretty unresolved to be fair. It seems to still have some potential, but I'm not going hold my breath.

EDIT: I also think it cuts off the school site a bit which is a shame.

[Wooster]

P3's are never an ideal way to develop a public building. However, with the Province unwilling to pay for the building, and the school board only having their own land assets to work with, we end up with projects working within ridiculous financial constraints. Politically, it is also difficult for a school board to spend extravagantly with dozens of communities crying for new schools.

Given the unfortunate constraints they had to work with and being involved in the process I was impressed with many aspects and details of the proposal. Stylistically, it certainly doesn't push any boundaries, which was something both Council and the Community pushed for. The position the school board and the design team took is that it should be 'subservient' to the safran school, distinguishable, but compatible.

We pushed extremely hard on the setback from 13th ave. Initially it was much closer to 13th ave. The land use bylaw put in place a setback in line with the south facade of the safran school. We wanted something in line with the northern facade of the original calgary collegiate building. What happened was it ended up being half way, with a cant over the plaza of two floors, with a transparent negative podium (which i think is quite cool) to resolve the issue of views from 8th street. You will be able to see the most important part of the school from 180 angle. Not ideal, but not too bad I think. CBE and bentall insisted they have 20 000 sq ft floor plate for operational efficiency.

[Arch26]

We pushed extremely hard on the setback from 13th ave. Initially it was much closer to 13th ave. The land use bylaw put in place a setback in line with the south facade of the safran school. We wanted something in line with the northern facade of the original calgary collegiate building. What happened was it ended up being half way, with a cant over the plaza of two floors, with a transparent negative podium (which i think is quite cool) to resolve the issue of views from 8th street. You will be able to see the most important part of the school from 180 angle. Not ideal, but not too bad I think. CBE and bentall insisted they have 20 000 sq ft floor plate for operational efficiency.

Fair enough. That was a good move.

[jeffwhit]

Call me an idiot, but I think it's completely gorgeous.

I really don't want to... but, it's Gibbstastic. boo.

[poopysheep]

well i really wanted to go to the meeting and i missed it.... i live a block away so i was really interested to see what they had planned for the park on the other side...

the building is just sort of... eh... a building... it will be to have something happening there - currently it's becoming a campground for homeless guys....

[Wooster]

well i really wanted to go to the meeting and i missed it.... i live a block away so i was really interested to see what they had planned for the park on the other side...


The CBE is selling the land for the park to the City, so there are no determinted plans for it yet. Like I said, it is very early in the process, but the community already initiated a design charrette. The main ideas were for a mixed use park, with some wide open space for active recreation on the 13th ave side, and other areas near the centre with more vegetation and sitting areas, some undulation in the topography and and area along 12th ave to feature some public art - possibly the Family of Man if it is going to move, or feasible to move.

We actually hired Arriviste to draw the concept images based on the ideas of the Charrette. There will be an open house soon on it. I will post the date on here. The big battle will be between people (potentially the parks department) that will want to leave it as is (both because they that people need a large soccer pitch and its cheap cost) verses those who want a more mixed use park, with many more features.

It should be noted that it was a MAJOR victory to get the public park secured. We have the community, and particularly Madeleine King to thank for that. It was going to be condos.

===============

Here is the text from Beltline Buzz newsletter about it:

King gets new park for Beltline

The Beltline will get its newest park, but it remains unclear whether it will remain a playfield or truly become a green space.

“The park is going to be there, there’s no question about that said Madeleine King, Alderman for Ward 8, which includes the Beltline.

Currently a fenced-in and unkempt soccer field, the western third of the Carl Safran block between 8th and 9th streets SW is set to become a new open space for Beltline residents. The sandstone building to the east will become the new headquarters for the Calgary Board of Education. An administration building and conference centre is planned, and the historic structure will be rehabilitated.

King said “It took a considerable amount of advocacy for quite a period of time,” to secure the western third of the property for green space.

Beltline Communities president Rob Taylor added, “The alternative was for the school board to sell off the land for condos.”

King said it is just a matter of time before the land is transferred for public use.

“It is a very expensive piece of land for the city to invest in, but I’m glad to say that the needs of Beltline residents were recognized by city council as being a very high priority,” she said.

Parks planner Kyle Ripley hopes that the details of negotiations with CBE will be concluded before the end of the year. After that, the city will engage with residents to determine the future of the new park.

Beltline’s new park will be located along 9th street between 12th and 13th avenues.

“There’s limited open space in the Beltline, and I think it’s important that it responds to the desires of the residents,” he said.

The city has no specific plans for the site, but Ripley noted that the first step after acquisition would be to tear down the fence surrounding the field to make the space more inviting. “I believe it’s a very interesting community question as to whether it should remain as a playfield or whether it should change its use,” said King.

Beltline Communities took the initiative and held a community charrette – an exercise to envision what the park should look like – on August 16th.

The Beltline Parks & Public Places charrette was organized by Beltline Planning Analyst Jen Maximattis. Eighteen interested residents assessed community needs and preferences for the new park.

They also developed an initial concept plan. Ideas stemming from the exercise include pathways along “desire lines”, a clear preference for a mix of active and passive uses, a double row of trees lining the 9th street side of the park, and preservation of sightlines to the historic Calgary Collegiate Institute building. The charrette also calls for installing a significant piece of public art on the 12th avenue frontage.

Commenting on the planning process for the park, Beltline Communities president Rob Taylor said, “If a new urban park is to truly succeed, Beltline residents should lead the way.” Beltline Communities will hold a public open house about the park in the fall.

Taylor said, “The community will tell us what they think of the charrette concept, and Beltline residents will clarify ideas for the city parks department to implement.”

[Calgarian]

Booooring!

[Nutterbug]

No more naked statues?

[Champion3]

The shape of that building reminds me quite a bit of the headquarters for Sybase, Inc. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/Sybasehq.jpg) in California.

[Xelebes]

A step forward for Calgary! :D

[ProudlyCanadian]

Ho Hum, my opinion of the building will depend highly on the quality of the finishing materials.

[Wooster]

No more naked statues?

The future of Family of Man is uncertain. It may stay in the current location, it might move. It is owned by the City, but the land it is on will be for sale in the near future. It will depend on the plans of the new owner. Rumours are that the competition for the block of the current Education Centre is stiff. Apparently the likes of HR Reit (the Bow) are after it. Extraordinarily valuable land.

From what I heard, the statues will cost up to a million bucks to remove, restore, and relocate. They are very heavy statues, with deep foundations and need quite a bit of restoration work. We're suggesting that if it did have to move, it would make sense to move them in the new park just off 12th avenue. It would go on city land but adjacent to the headquarters of which they are so closely associated with. It would provide quite a nice landmark for people enjoying the park, or particularly those many people who drive 12th avenue.

[CorporateWhore]

well, for a gibbs-gage, it's not attrocious, but comparatively speaking to other projects of it's ilk, it's definitely a bit of a bore. Once again, a bit of a lost opportunity for Calgary to do something on a world-level.

If done well, I think the park itself could become the real star of this project.

[Bigtime]

From what I heard, the statues will cost up to a million bucks to remove, restore, and relocate. They are very heavy statues, with deep foundations and need quite a bit of restoration work. We're suggesting that if it did have to move, it would make sense to move them in the new park just off 12th avenue. It would go on city land but adjacent to the headquarters of which they are so closely associated with. It would provide quite a nice landmark for people enjoying the park, or particularly those many people who drive 12th avenue.

Thanks for the info on this Josh, I really really really hope that Family of Man is saved and kept somewhere public where it can still be enjoyed. If there is one constant I see when driving or walking by them it is people taking pictures with them. One of the rarer examples of public art in Calgary that people seem to really notice and enjoy! :tup:

As for the building, I voted good. I'd like to see some rendering from an aerial perspective looking down on the site from a 45 degree view. I also think it is a shame that it appears to be blocking the view of the school from 8th St. I like the retail and hope that it can fill up with some good shops and services.

[cre8ivjay]

Do we know yet what will happen to the existing BoE building? It strikes me as a building worth preserving. Not sure what it is that I like, it's quirky though and I get the feeling that if we bulldoze it, we may very well regret it. Maybe in 10 years. Maybe in 50 years.

Any ideas?

[entheosfog]

Here is the Calgary Board of Education Centre. It will be the new headquarters for the Board. The Carl Safran School is being completely restored

The community has been working with this project for years now. A lot of compromises have been made over the process to arrive where it is now.

A few things have yet to be resolved. Including the materials. The City and community are pushing for high quality contemporary materials of course. In my opinion the materials will make or break this project. The landscape plan, particularly the path diagonal from 8th street to 13th avenue is still being negotiated. There is also a rather awkward blank wall on the end of the conference and board room building facing west on 12th Ave. There are some landscaping, and other options being explored including utilizing the old gymnasium door feature as a possible solution. Access out of the building to the west is also another issue.

The community put on a design charrette for the park that will be the rest of the block to the west (we saw the article about that the other day). We're trying to work on getting an exit from the building to spill onto the park.

It is a P3 project with Bentall Reality, the Board of Education design by Gibbs Gage. Located at 12th ave and 8th street SW. I'll be able to get some more view of the project soon.

I quite like the podium level. The negative transparent podium is quite attractive and works well for the site. The south end of the main floor will be a restaurant with an outdoor padio. The rest of the 12th and 8th street interface of the admin building will be retail.

Anyway, here it is. What do you think?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/safranrender1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/safranrender2.jpg

I take it the 1940's gymnasium will be demolished? I guess I may be one of the few people who really like that building. One of Calgary's only 'Egyptian revival' structures :rolleyes:
Anyway, I kinda like the building itself. My only concern is how Carl Safran is shut out from 8th creating a wall there. But at least the green space on the west side of the old school will be retained.

[Blue_Cypress]

Do we know yet what will happen to the existing BoE building? It strikes me as a building worth preserving. Not sure what it is that I like, it's quirky though and I get the feeling that if we bulldoze it, we may very well regret it. Maybe in 10 years. Maybe in 50 years.

Any ideas?

I would hate to see that building bulldozed. I doubt you'll find many sympathetic ears though.

[wild wild west]

It is not what I would call "innovative" by any stretch but it is attractive enough I suppose. I'd be quite enthusiastic if it were an office building, but for a public building I expect something a little more original.

[lubicon]

I voted 'indifferent'. I don't really like it, but not to the extent that I would say it is bad. Frankly it looks boring to me, and what's with the flag pole attached to the side of the building?? Maybe it's just the rendering but it looks like it was an afterthought. I'd also like to see the building fly the Alberta flag and the city flag since it ovbiously relates to both these entities as well.

[Beltliner]

I would hate to see that building bulldozed. I doubt you'll find many sympathetic ears though.

The current CBE centre might not be so bad as Kaliningrad's Dom Sovyeta (http://home.introweb.nl/h/hogensti/Kaliningrad-en.htm), but it's ugly enough that I don't think anyone would really miss it.

From what I saw of the plans for the new Safran Centre, I thought they did a lot of things right--it seems like they want the place to live and breathe and draw people into it. That strap-on flagpole has got to come down, though--and it seems a pity that the park space on the west side of the block is something of an afterthought.

[Pavlov]

On a side note, Family of Man is by far the best piece of public art in Calgary (although the competition is hardly fierce.)

[Bigtime]

Frankly it looks boring to me, and what's with the flag pole attached to the side of the building?? Maybe it's just the rendering but it looks like it was an afterthought. I'd also like to see the building fly the Alberta flag and the city flag since it ovbiously relates to both these entities as well.

I've always wished we had more flags displayed on our buildings. I'm not talking giant like some on top of office towers in the USA(check San Diego for an example), but kind of like what the Catholic boards building has. Although I agree that we should be seeing some city and provincial flags in there as well.

Since we are getting "Gaged" anyways we might as well make sure we put flags on all these flag poles! :D

:previous: Agreed fully Reesonov!

[lubicon]

I don't have an issue with the displaying of flags, it's the pole itself and how it is attached to the building. As I said, I would like to see all 3 flags displayed. The Canadian flag for obvious reasons, the Alberta flag since the CBE is obviously an Alberta institution, and the city flag as they represent the education of many of this city's children.

[Arriviste]

Completely forgettable. I agree with Corporate that institutional structures offer the opportunity to create something divergent from the status quo...which is getting Gaged here in Calgary at least.

[Arriviste]

As far as flags go, well I think they are TACKY! Especially on buildings. Unless a building plans on becoming a 16th century galleon sailing upon the North Atlantic, than we should leave flags the fuck out of it. Its lazier ornamentation than LED lighting even.

[Arch26]

Completely forgettable. I agree with Corporate that institutional structures offer the opportunity to create something divergent from the status quo...which is getting Gaged here in Calgary at least.

What is with GibbsGage and the stupid flat panel-like extrusions on the sides of practically all of their new projects (remember the old PLT concept, Palliser Square, Jamieson, and now CBE)? Is it some kind of trademark? Seems like a strange attempt to "add interest". Not convinced. It also really bothers me when solid (and possibly heavy) materials are made to appear to be weirdly supported by or suspended above glass curtain wall. It always looks kinda fishy.

[Wooster]

And that's the problem with P3s. They never really are institutional projects anymore. Sure, the school board will the the tenant, but in reality it is just another office project for Bental to lease out. That's what happens when you have a retarded provincial government unwilling to pay for what they should be.

Public buildings are the best opportunity for innovation. I still hold a lot of hope for real instututional projects like ACAD, all of u of c's projects - particularly urban campus, SAIT's projects, the science centre, and the public library.

[Arch26]

As far as flags go, well I think they are TACKY!

Literally ;) . I agree. Flags are a landscape element, and that's where they look good. Actually, I think they are far more impressive and impactful when they are standing alone and not competing with a much taller building.

[Arriviste]

What is with GibbsGage and the stupid flat panel-like extrusions on the sides of practically all of their new projects (remember the old PLT concept, Palliser Square, Jamieson, and now CBE)? Is it some kind of trademark? Seems like a strange attempt to "add interest". Not convinced. It also really bothers me when solid (and possibly heavy) materials are made to appear to be weirdly supported by or suspended above glass curtain wall. It always looks kinda fishy.

I think it has something to do with a gross lack of imagination, and design by committee. The results are unbalanced and contrived, exemplified as you noted by the use of visually heavy materials in awkward positions.

And that's the problem with P3s. They never really are institutional projects anymore. Sure, the school board will the the tenant, but in reality it is just another office project for Bental to lease out. That's what happens when you have a retarded provincial government unwilling to pay for what they should be.

That makes a ton of sense actually. Never considered that the P3 concept was the culprit.

Literally . I agree. Flags are a landscape element, and that's where they look good. Actually, I think they are far more impressive and impactful when they are standing alone and not competing with a much taller building.

Totally concur. The one that comes to my mind is the Flag in Mexico city. Flag poles are terrific place markers and should be utilized as such to create memorable locations rather than adorn a building.

[Arch26]

And that's the problem with P3s. They never really are institutional projects anymore. Sure, the school board will the the tenant, but in reality it is just another office project for Bental to lease out. That's what happens when you have a retarded provincial government unwilling to pay for what they should be.

Public buildings are the best opportunity for innovation. I still hold a lot of hope for real instututional projects like ACAD, all of u of c's projects - particularly urban campus, SAIT's projects, the science centre, and the public library.

I think you're absolutely right. Too much bureaucracy. Too many hoops to jump through. It doesn't make sense for projects like CBE to be P3 because the province can clearly pay for them alone (and should). P3 seems to make more sense for particularly large scale and costly infrastructure projects and such.

Like you, I am really hopeful for the projects you mentioned. I'm a little worried that the UofC doesn't quite have its act together though. There have been all those rumours about the status of the library and whether s+p is still involved, and the downtown campus looks like its shaping up to be a fiasco (once again, in large part due to the province's budget choices).

[Arch26]

dp

[Zilla]

- Regarding the old CBE building downtown, it's on the 'top 100' Alberta buildings by the Alberta Association of Architects http://www.aaa.ab.ca/pages/public/csaa/csaa-60.aspx-

- Any images to be posted that better show the relationship of the new building to Carl Safran? I saw some at the open house.

- I still wish they had re-furbished the deco-inspired gym rather than knocking it down, but at least they might preserve the monumental entryway.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/75/184242351_31c75683ce.jpg

[CorporateWhore]

As far as flags go, well I think they are TACKY! Especially on buildings. Unless a building plans on becoming a 16th century galleon sailing upon the North Atlantic , than we should leave flags the fuck out of it.

Now THAT'S something I'd like to see!

[CorporateWhore]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/75/184242351_31c75683ce.jpg

I absolutely love that gym. But I guess it's just not special enough to keep either.... :rolleyes:

[The Chemist]

Not horrid, but nothing special either. Sort of like the Catholic School Centre downtown. Meh.

[Bigtime]

- I still wish they had re-furbished the deco-inspired gym rather than knocking it down, but at least they might preserve the monumental entryway.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/75/184242351_31c75683ce.jpg

They could have totally turned that gym into "The Municipal Fortress of Justice". :haha:

I still remember when I'd pick up my younger sister from there when Rundle College was the school. Or looking down on it from the apartement building to the south when I had an ex that lived there. It is a great 'character' green space, I really hope that it stays that way.

[RWin]

Anyway, here it is. What do you think?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/safranrender1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joshwhit/development/safranrender2.jpg

I wonder how many schools they need to close to build it?

[Wooster]

I wonder how many schools they need to close to build it?

The sale of their downtown block, and the money from the sale of the park to the City will cover it. Bentall is building the actual office tower, the school board is simply leasing it.

[Arriviste]

- Regarding the old CBE building downtown, it's on the 'top 100' Alberta buildings by the Alberta Association of Architects http://www.aaa.ab.ca/pages/public/csaa/csaa-60.aspx-

- Any images to be posted that better show the relationship of the new building to Carl Safran? I saw some at the open house.

- I still wish they had re-furbished the deco-inspired gym rather than knocking it down, but at least they might preserve the monumental entryway.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/75/184242351_31c75683ce.jpg

It makes me very sad to see this one go. Here are a couple photos I have posted before that I took of the Gym few months ago:

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n152/arriviste_2006/1940wall.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n152/arriviste_2006/1940window.jpg

A shame. :(

[Distill3d]

suffice to say that this building is better in design then what is currently in use.

[Calgarian]

I don't know how you guys like the gym, I think it is an absolute eyesore, good riddance!!

[Arriviste]

suffice to say that this building is better in design then what is currently in use.

I don't know how you guys like the gym, I think it is an absolute eyesore, good riddance!!

You guys are loco!:koko: The current CBE building is a classic. As is this gym. Both are so pretty.

[Wooster]

There is serious talk about preserving the monumental door feature of the gym and incorporating it into the project.

The old CBE headquarters, I agree are an architectural gem. A fine example from the era, regardless of whether people think it is pretty. It is an important building. Personally, I have liked it ever since I started getting into architecture.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with it. Since the site is being sold, it will depend on the owner. There will certainly be people fighting for its preservation. The site is quite large, and if Family of Man moves, the west side of the block could easily be developed, leaving most if not all of the existing building on the eastern edge of the block intact.

[Calgarian]

You guys are loco!:koko: The current CBE building is a classic. As is this gym. Both are so pretty.

The school is fantastic, the gym looks like a bunker.

[Me&You]

Edit - shitty slow server...

[Me&You]

The sale of their downtown block, and the money from the sale of the park to the City will cover it. Bentall is building the actual office tower, the school board is simply leasing it.

So if the CBE is selling their DT block (which you said yourself is rediculously valuable), why do they need to do a P3 AND Lease a new building? Shouldn't the sale of the DT location been more than enough to build and own a notable (NICE!) building here?

[RWin]

The sale of their downtown block, and the money from the sale of the park to the City will cover it. Bentall is building the actual office tower, the school board is simply leasing it.

Well, that makes it easier to take then.

It still pisses me off though that they get something new to administer from while the schools are falling down around our kids (the ones that aren't closing that is).

And schools are closing and not being repaired because there isn't enough kids to fill them.

And there isn't enough kids to fill them because everyone wants a new house on the edge of town - can't build new schools there until they close schools nearer to downtown.

:hell: :hell: :hell:

[unibrain]

I would have liked it more if they went with a more interesting shape.. or perhaps a glass cube, like an apple store New York on that corner. As much as I find the 999 building shocking, I think it would have served much better at this corner, not so much for it's design, but the colors and context the building serves for.

I would agree that having an arched feature cut into building (ala the bow) to create a public amenity entrance complete with three flag poles at that intersection would have been a better idea. I mean, when you look at that building, you're not really sure where the main entrance is, other than assuming it's off the corner. For public, institutional, or government offices, these are usually of the norm.

I'd like to see the statues moved to the greenspace on the opposite side of the block, just behind the building facing the other intersection. It's got that large atrium-like curtainwall.. having those statues out there for people on the inside to look at would be somewhat neat... very campus-like.

[lubicon]

I wonder how many schools they need to close to build it?

They only close the schools that are sitting half empty and are underutilized.

[lubicon]

Well, that makes it easier to take then.

It still pisses me off though that they get something new to administer from while the schools are falling down around our kids (the ones that aren't closing that is).

And schools are closing and not being repaired because there isn't enough kids to fill them.

And there isn't enough kids to fill them because everyone wants a new house on the edge of town - can't build new schools there until they close schools nearer to downtown.

:hell: :hell: :hell:

I am quite sure that not everyone WANTS a house on the edge of town. The simple fact is that is where the vast majority of family housing is being built so you don't have much choice. Moving to Calgary and have kids??? Where else can you find an availiable home that is reasonably priced (and I use reasonably priced in a very loose term). Given the choice I doubt people would choose to live way the hell and gone in the burbs. I certainly didn't plan on it when we moved here but it was the only place we could find a house that fit our budget and our needs.

[RWin]

We we make a choice to move into a neighbourhood relatively close - in part because I don't want to spend half my day communting and in part because there is a school in the community. The reward for doing my little part to slow the sprawl is to have the school closed.

[Arch26]

I am quite sure that not everyone WANTS a house on the edge of town. The simple fact is that is where the vast majority of family housing is being built so you don't have much choice. Moving to Calgary and have kids??? Where else can you find an availiable home that is reasonably priced (and I use reasonably priced in a very loose term). Given the choice I doubt people would choose to live way the hell and gone in the burbs. I certainly didn't plan on it when we moved here but it was the only place we could find a house that fit our budget and our needs.

Once Calgary's inner city desity is high enough, they should start taking some of the risks that places like Vancouver have taken. Vancouver has made huge efforts to generate a greater sense of community in neighborhoods like Yaletown. They understood that no families would move there if there were no schools, parks, and community centres. So their solution was to wait for the right time, and then go ahead and build those things anyway, with the hope that it would draw more families to the core. And it worked. Can you imagine? Building brand new schools in the inner city!!!

[RWin]

Can you imagine? Building brand new schools in the inner city!!!

Yeah, who would have ever guessed that if you build it, they will come.