Atlanta's crime wave?

[Stratosphere 2020]

I read this short blog on a website. I thought the ATL was experiencing a decline in crime, but this blog is real shocking. I have also read in other articles that it is hard to find crime statistics of the ATL of the previous years and that many crimes are not registered by Atlanta Police, making statistics of the area unreliable. Is this all true? This last time I was in Atlanta was in 2002, how dangerous has the ATL become in the last 5 years?



Atlanta’s 2007 crime wave

July 6th, 2007 by Andisheh Nouraee in Hot Off The Press

In Atlanta, “Every Day Is An Opening Day.”

Unfortunately, the openings are increasingly bullet holes.

Atlanta’s murder rate for the first half of 2007 was 21 percent higher than during the same period in 2006, and 46 percent higher than the same period in 2005.

According to statistics I gathered from eight separate reports on the Atlanta Police Department website, there were 51 murders in the city during first six months of 2007. That number may be higher because the APD’s crime map appears to record multiple homicides as single murders. The murder of two teens at Greenbriar Mall last month is noted on the APD crime map as one murder.

During the same period in 2006 and 2005, there were 42 and 35 murders, respectively. Last year, Atlanta had the fourth-highest murder rate in the nation.

Murder isn’t the only serious crime on the rise in the city.

According to the APD’s first-quarter report, robbery was up 16 percent, burglary, 13 percent; rape, 9 percent; and theft from coin-operated machines was up 23 percent.

Not even our candy and soda are safe.


link

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/freshloaf/2007/07/06/atlantas-2007-crime-wave/

[Rail Claimore]

The murder of two teens at Greenbriar Mall last month is noted on the APD crime map as one murder.

So they fudge the same way the Brits do...

[TSmith]

Crime goes up... crime goes down. It's just a fact of life in big cities. You can only hope to contain it somewhat. I wouldn't freak out about it.

[Fiorenza]

I think they call it the New Orleans Effect.

[MarketsWork]

I think they call it the New Orleans Effect.

I thought about that but didn't post it. I've heard unofficial accounts of crimes attributed to displaced Crescent City thugs, and wonder what the real story is. I'll bet that closer (to N.O.) cities like Houston and Shreveport were effected even more, and have posted much higher crime increases that ours.

[NCB]

Houston's crime went way up when they took in just about all of the New Orleans criminals after Katrina, but it has since subsided to a normal level. The same can be said about Dallas, though to a smaller extent. Baton Rouge never saw any real rise in crime, nor did Shreveport or Jackson. Just about all of the criminals have seemingly returned to New Orleans, which is why some of the poorest parts of the city (Central City, Hollygrove, etc.) are once again posting high crime rates.

If these numbers were from 2006, then yes, the "New Orleans effect" may have held true. But two years later? I don't think so. Especially considering these numbers point to a major jump in the murder rate compared to early 2006, when most of the criminals from New Orleans would have been in Atlanta.

Houston and Dallas saw their crime rates go way up in early 2006, but they went back down to normal levels in early 2007 in both cities. That most definately points to the influx of New Orleans criminals. But Atlanta's crime rate goes up in the first half of 2006, and then make an even larger jump a year later? Like I said, I don't think that points soley at New Orleans criminals.

[akiatl261]

I think because Atlanta is the tie that binds this metro area it is put under a microscope. I think the real question should not be just Atlanta but the metro area as a wholes crime rate. In comparison to say Dallas, Houston or Miami since they are of compareable size. People need to remember as long as they are vigilant and use COMMON SENSE, they can avoid being the victim of criminals. I dont think the spike in crime has to do all with New Orleans. Man my brain is rambling at 1:30am LOL :)

[RobMidtowner]

:previous:
But isn't crime really a local issue? These stats are disturbing to say the least.

[dabigstigGT]

Crime goes up... crime goes down. It's just a fact of life in big cities. You can only hope to contain it somewhat. I wouldn't freak out about it.

As Dwight Schrute says on The Office: "I have the ability to raise and lower my cholestorol at will"
"uhmmm...why would you want to raise your cholestorol?"
"So I can lower it"

[shanthemanatl]

I don't consider going from 35 to 42 murders a "crime wave". That's just one or two more nut jobs than the year before that decided to blow away the girlfriend, grandma, and the kids in one fell swoop. Yes, it seems that crime is up a bit from the previous year, but I don't think it's necessarily an indication that we're re-gaining our 1970s "Murder Capital of America" title.

[akiatl261]

:previous:
But isn't crime really a local issue? These stats are disturbing to say the least.

Very very true its a local issue. But I think if it had been say the crime stats for the city and then suburban areas and then a combined total it would have been more representitive of Atlanta as a whole. Many people from the outside would read these stats and think ATlanta as the whole not just the city or certain parts of the city.

[Andrea]

Many people from the outside would read these stats and think ATlanta as the whole not just the city or certain parts of the city.

I heard a radio show discussing the rising murder rate in Philadelphia the other day, and the commentators were saying that the vast majority of the killings were happening in a few neighborhoods. I wonder if that's true here as well?

[bobdreamz]

I think because Atlanta is the tie that binds this metro area it is put under a microscope. I think the real question should not be just Atlanta but the metro area as a wholes crime rate. In comparison to say Dallas, Houston or Miami since they are of compareable size. People need to remember as long as they are vigilant and use COMMON SENSE, they can avoid being the victim of criminals. I dont think the spike in crime has to do all with New Orleans. Man my brain is rambling at 1:30am LOL :)


well I can give you the stats for Miami...as of June 30th there were 125 murders in Miami Dade County (pop. 2.5 million).

[TSmith]

I don't consider going from 35 to 42 murders a "crime wave".

Hah that's nothing. I'd kill for only 42 murders in New Orleans. Wait... no I wouldn't. Bad choice of words.

But seriously... 42 murders in a city of 360K, or whatever Atlanta is these days, is not that bad. Sure it's not great, but it isn't horrible either. New Orleans just eclipsed 300K for the first time since the storm. Metro area is nearing 1.3 million once again. We're at 110 murders. The only encouraging thing about that is that there are plenty of things we can do to fix it. We have a DA that will probably be ousted from office. We have a police department that is down almost 500 cops. And we have an entire city of criminals that were thrown on top of each other after the storm. It's kinda like what happens when you take ants from one ant pile and throw them on another... they fight to the death. In addition, we have tens of thousands of day laborers in the city being paid in cash... feeding the drug trade with well paid customers. It is hard to avoid these results. It's going to take a few years to fix it. But in the meantime, it is a pretty safe city for a person like myself... I don't sell or use drugs. Chances are I'll be just fine.

[shanthemanatl]

Hah that's nothing. I'd kill for only 42 murders in New Orleans. Wait... no I wouldn't. Bad choice of words.

But seriously... 42 murders in a city of 360K, or whatever Atlanta is these days, is not that bad. Sure it's not great, but it isn't horrible either. New Orleans just eclipsed 300K for the first time since the storm. Metro area is nearing 1.3 million once again. We're at 110 murders. The only encouraging thing about that is that there are plenty of things we can do to fix it. We have a DA that will probably be ousted from office. We have a police department that is down almost 500 cops. And we have an entire city of criminals that were thrown on top of each other after the storm. It's kinda like what happens when you take ants from one ant pile and throw them on another... they fight to the death. In addition, we have tens of thousands of day laborers in the city being paid in cash... feeding the drug trade with well paid customers. It is hard to avoid these results. It's going to take a few years to fix it. But in the meantime, it is a pretty safe city for a person like myself... I don't sell or use drugs. Chances are I'll be just fine.

The City of Atlanta is actually right at 500,000 people now.

[TSmith]

The City of Atlanta is actually right at 500,000 people now.

Apologies... in that case, just be happy that you have a safe city.

Richard Pennington, your current Chief, was able to reduce New Orleans' murder rate by nearly 70% during his tenure at the NOPD. The guy knows what he's doing.

[Pillsbury Doughboy]

I don't know. To me, Atlanta seems safer than it ever has. Though I have been somewhat surprised at the rise in crime in the suburbs. In Atlanta, it seems, it's impossible to completely escape bad areas, as they're always around the corner. But on the whole, I feel safer in Atlanta than most other big cities.

[whoDean]

There were 11 homicides in Fulton County LAST WEEK, including these two:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/07/30/eastpoint_0731_web.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

[atlantaguy]

Well, sadly it appears that the little 9 year old girl killed in her own bedroom took a bullet from a couple of thugs from New Orleans trying to rob someone in the parking lot of her apartment complex.

Both guys were caught by the Metro Fugitive Squad on outstanding charges from Nola.

[A-town]

The numbers are way off, people are dying left and right in the streets of Atlanta. How do I know you ask? Because I bear witness to it everyday. Black on black Chevys moving through the hood doing drive-bys, cops racing down the street at 70 and 80 mph, helicopters hovering above your neighborhood with their search lights shining o so bright, and ambulances riding throughout the night with their sirens blaring and you tell me there has only been 51 murders, give me a break! There is a war raging on in the streets of Atlanta between Atlanta and New Orleans, they want control over the streets. Dekalb County killed 12 people last year, most of them were from New Orleans. There has been so many cops killed in the line of duty since 2006 that the news doesn't care to report it anymore. Why is it that New Orlean thugs are so ignorant, look where they come from. The most corrupt city in the nation, where the city won't tear down government housing and build new communities like we do here in Atlanta because the want the funding. Which has given birth to some of the toughest streets in America. I remember hearing a story not to long ago about people in NO shooting random bullets in the air for fun, that they later found out were killing people, 6 people died that year alone from such foolishness. That same type of behavior came to Atlanta after Katrina, that's why the crime rate is so high. Comparing Atlanta and New Orleans is like comparing apples and oranges. Atlanta is a prosperous, progressive moving city where people actually care and work together to achieve a common goal. New Orleans is exactly the opposite, it is a city where every man is out for himself and doesn't care about the welfare of the city as a whole. I understand fully that NO people are hostil in Atlanta, but Atlanta isn't going to let them eat on our streets. And when neither side backs down or come to a compromise, you get the aforementiond rise in crime.

[sprtsluvr8]

Crime goes up... crime goes down. It's just a fact of life in big cities. You can only hope to contain it somewhat. I wouldn't freak out about it.

The "crime wave" in Atlanta is just a result of numbers, and those aren't even dramatically higher for 2007 - 51 murders in 2007 compared to 42/35 in '06 and '05. There is no need to over react to an increase of 9 SO FAR this year...and hopefully the numbers will level out by December, as they often do. The same drama has happened in past years - the media breaks the big story on increasing crime in Atlanta in March or June, but by December the numbers end up lower than previous years.

The above post is exactly right. Crime fluctuates all the time, depending on several factors. One of those factors is the increase in population. More people = more chances for crimes to occur. And surely we aren't still blaming anything on New Orleans? Katrina was 2 years ago...and anyway most of the criminals and less fortunate were evacuated to Houston because of its proximity to NO. The majority of evacuees to Atlanta came on their own and by choice. If I were a criminal, post-Katrina NO would look like paradise...so I think we need to claim our own home grown criminals...

I'm sorry but I just don't see the street war going on in this city. I guess most of us try to avoid certain areas of town or certain streets where we think crime is more likely, as anyone would in any city. By doing this and by staying alert/aware when I'm in public, there seems to be a good chance I can avoid being murdered. It's worked so far...18 years in Atlanta and still alive! Actually 18 years and never a victim of any crime...

I'm pretty sure the media LOVES reporting murder and other shocking stories that attract attention, so I feel like we are well informed about the crime in Atlanta. I would think the AJC gladly reports juicy stories on violent crimes...

[Dystopos]

I think you're pretty far out-of-line A-town. I would suggest looking at specifics rather than generalities as a way to gain insight. The big picture is important, but you have to follow a system to get to it from the details. Otherwise it's expressionism - and that doesn't do anyone any good except for the spin doctor who can sell it to the suckers.

[tennreb]

Atlanta is a prosperous, progressive moving city where people actually care and work together to achieve a common goal. New Orleans is exactly the opposite, it is a city where every man is out for himself and doesn't care about the welfare of the city as a whole. I understand fully that NO people are hostil in Atlanta, but Atlanta isn't going to let them eat on our streets. And when neither side backs down or come to a compromise, you get the aforementiond rise in crime.

I think that is a gross overstatement generalizing the people of New Orleans. The vast majority of people from New Orleans love their city and are there working to rebuild it from nothing. Even the ones that didn't love it enough to stay, still are missing their home. New Orleans people love their city and work hard to support it. I don't think you could make a generalization about everyone in Atlanta, but I wouldn't say that everyone is working together for their city. If that were, then 9/10 people in Atlanta Metro wouldn't refuse to live in the city limits. Even the people in the city limits tell everyone they are from Buckhead because they believe it is so much better than the rest of the city. They wouldn't be caught dead in the city center past 5 PM, and the only reason they would go there before 5 PM is because their job makes them. Most people in the Atlanta metro are there to make money. Most people in New Orleans are there because they love the city. The vast majority would have better opportunities elsewhere, but they stay because they love New Orleans.

[shanthemanatl]

I think that is a gross overstatement generalizing the people of New Orleans. The vast majority of people from New Orleans love their city and are there working to rebuild it from nothing. Even the ones that didn't love it enough to stay, still are missing their home. New Orleans people love their city and work hard to support it. I don't think you could make a generalization about everyone in Atlanta, but I wouldn't say that everyone is working together for their city. If that were, then 9/10 people in Atlanta Metro wouldn't refuse to live in the city limits. Even the people in the city limits tell everyone they are from Buckhead because they believe it is so much better than the rest of the city. They wouldn't be caught dead in the city center past 5 PM, and the only reason they would go there before 5 PM is because their job makes them. Most people in the Atlanta metro are there to make money. Most people in New Orleans are there because they love the city. The vast majority would have better opportunities elsewhere, but they stay because they love New Orleans.

Talk about gross overstatements!

I can assure you that I don't tell people that I live in Buckhead. I'm a SoNo/BumCrack resident and proud of it, and I'm often in the city center after 5pm by choice. I am not here to make money---Atlanta is not a haven for soulless money-grubbers as you seem to imply. There are many of us here because we love this city, warts and all.

[RobMidtowner]

Even the people in the city limits tell everyone they are from Buckhead because they believe it is so much better than the rest of the city. They wouldn't be caught dead in the city center past 5 PM, and the only reason they would go there before 5 PM is because their job makes them.

Your post sounded well reasoned and coherent until I read these statements. :rolleyes:

[whoDean]

The "crime wave" in Atlanta is just a result of numbers, and those aren't even dramatically higher for 2007 - 51 murders in 2007 compared to 42/35 in '06 and '05. There is no need to over react to an increase of 9 SO FAR this year...

Does the 11 murders in Fulton county in 1 WEEK skew the numbers?

[Andrea]

Crime isn't uniform across the city either. About 75% of all murders occur in Zones 1, 3 and 4. Murdering is much less common in other parts of the city.

http://tinyurl.com/2wlcu5

[A-town]

I have a friend that lives in the Cascades, all was well until Fall 2005. She said that every empty apartment unit was filled up with people from New Orleans after the flood. And as a result cars started getting broken into, doors were getting kicked down(home invasions), robberies, she said it has gotten so bad that she doen't let her 5 year old son play outside anymore.

Where did I hear all those stories about New Orleans you ask? From New Orlean people themselves, so to call me an expressionist is ridiculous. Trust me, the news doesn't report everything. But the streets are talking, I have no reason to make this stuff up, I see it everyday. So you can either take it or leave, because sometimes the truth hurts.

[tennreb]

Your post sounded well reasoned and coherent until I read these statements. :rolleyes:

I was trying to make a point about overstatements.

[Andrea]

If you look at the statistics, however, at least for murder, they're way down from pre-Katrina days.

[sprtsluvr8]

Does the 11 murders in Fulton county in 1 WEEK skew the numbers?

I have no idea...I'll let you know at the end of 2007. My point was that 11 in one week is often balanced by 1 for the next 3 weeks. Don't get me wrong, I value human life and hate that 11 people have lost their lives to losers who think it's acceptable to take something as precious and personal as a life...but talking just about the numbers, an increase of 9 murders doesn't alarm me at all...

[Andrea]

... I value human life and hate that 11 people have lost their lives to losers who think it's acceptable to take something as precious and personal as a life...but talking just about the numbers, an increase of 9 murders doesn't alarm me at all...

I agree. So much of it has to do with what part of town you're in, too. There are several times more murders in Zones 1, 3 and 4 than in Zones 5, 6 and 2.

Safety is not purely a matter of the number of crimes, though. It would shed more light on the subject if we knew who the perpetrators and victims were, the nature of the crimes (domestic violence, gang-related, serial killer, etc.), weapons used, whether there is any pattern to the time of day or the type of place they occurred, and other specifics like that.

[sprtsluvr8]

I agree. So much of it has to do with what part of town you're in, too. There are several times more murders in Zones 1, 3 and 4 than in Zones 5, 6 and 2.

Safety is not purely a matter of the number of crimes, though. It would shed more light on the subject if we knew who the perpetrators and victims were, the nature of the crimes (domestic violence, gang-related, serial killer, etc.), weapons used, whether there is any pattern to the time of day or the type of place they occurred, and other specifics like that.

Good point...random crimes, especially murders, are somewhat rare.

[TSmith]

I have a friend that lives in the Cascades, all was well until Fall 2005. She said that every empty apartment unit was filled up with people from New Orleans after the flood. And as a result cars started getting broken into, doors were getting kicked down(home invasions), robberies, she said it has gotten so bad that she doen't let her 5 year old son play outside anymore.

Where did I hear all those stories about New Orleans you ask? From New Orlean people themselves, so to call me an expressionist is ridiculous. Trust me, the news doesn't report everything. But the streets are talking, I have no reason to make this stuff up, I see it everyday. So you can either take it or leave, because sometimes the truth hurts.
Oh boo hoo... get over it.

[Dystopos]

I have a friend that lives in the Cascades, all was well until Fall 2005. She said that every empty apartment unit was filled up with people from New Orleans after the flood. And as a result cars started getting broken into, doors were getting kicked down(home invasions), robberies, she said it has gotten so bad that she doen't let her 5 year old son play outside anymore.

Where did I hear all those stories about New Orleans you ask? From New Orlean people themselves, so to call me an expressionist is ridiculous. Trust me, the news doesn't report everything. But the streets are talking, I have no reason to make this stuff up, I see it everyday. So you can either take it or leave, because sometimes the truth hurts.

The street ain't always so good at analysis. There is doubtless some truth to what you are saying, but it is clear that your evidence is chosen and evaluated more by prejudice than by reason.

[A-town]

Oh boo hoo... get over it.

You couldn't walk a mile in my shoes.

The street ain't always so good at analysis. There is doubtless some truth to what you are saying, but it is clear that your evidence is chosen and evaluated more by prejudice than by reason.

I don't feel I'm being prejudice, as much as I'm just telling what's going on. Do I have the facts to back up most of my claims, no. But when you see it there is no reason to have to read the newspaper. Sometimes crime makes the evening news, most of the time it doesn't. There aren't to many reporters that are bold enough to cover a story in the Bluff.

[Dystopos]

I don't feel I'm being prejudice, as much as I'm just telling what's going on. Do I have the facts to back up most of my claims, no. But when you see it there is no reason to have to read the newspaper. Sometimes crime makes the evening news, most of the time it doesn't. There aren't to many reporters that are bold enough to cover a story in the Bluff.

Holding to beliefs without clear and rational evidence is the definition of prejudice. It's not always wrong to be prejudiced, but it's usually wrong to act on it without checking the facts.

[A-town]

Holding to beliefs without clear and rational evidence is the definition of prejudice. It's not always wrong to be prejudiced, but it's usually wrong to act on it without checking the facts.

"Without checking the facts", how hard is it the understand that this is what I'm witnessing with my own eyes.

[TSmith]

You couldn't walk a mile in my shoes.

You sure about that? I live in New Orleans... the same city that you basically call a warzone.

Excuse me... I need to go change the dressing on my gunshot wound.

[Dystopos]

"Without checking the facts", how hard is it the understand that this is what I'm witnessing with my own eyes.

If your original statement ("The numbers are way off") is supported by things you witnessed with your own eyes, then that would place you at the scene of several unreported homicides. I find that suspicious.

I won't even ask how "New Orleans...is a city where every man is out for himself and doesn't care about the welfare of the city as a whole." could possibly be deduced from direct observation.

I will mention that your observation that "the city won't tear down government housing and build new communities like we do here in Atlanta because the want the funding [sic]" is incorrect. The city did tear down the St Thomas projects, eliminating 1,600 apartments and replacing them with a Wal-Mart and a mix of housing that included 60 "affordable" units. In my opinion, that project spoke pretty loud about greed and corruption.

Look, I'm not saying that Atlanta isn't a more prosperous, progressive and advantaged metropolis. I'm just saying that fixing blame on New Orleans for the things you think you're seeing is irresponsible. Here's a hint, guns were fired in the air in Atlanta long before Katrina.

[A-town]

If your original statement ("The numbers are way off") is supported by things you witnessed with your own eyes, then that would place you at the scene of several unreported homicides. I find that suspicious.

I won't even ask how "New Orleans...is a city where every man is out for himself and doesn't care about the welfare of the city as a whole." could possibly be deduced from direct observation.

I will mention that your observation that "the city won't tear down government housing and build new communities like we do here in Atlanta because the want the funding [sic]" is incorrect. The city did tear down the St Thomas projects, eliminating 1,600 apartments and replacing them with a Wal-Mart and a mix of housing that included 60 "affordable" units. In my opinion, that project spoke pretty loud about greed and corruption.

Look, I'm not saying that Atlanta isn't a more prosperous, progressive and advantaged metropolis. I'm just saying that fixing blame on New Orleans for the things you think you're seeing is irresponsible. Here's a hint, guns were fired in the air in Atlanta long before Katrina.

Don't put words in my mouth. One apartment complex, but how many are in the city. And aren't you from Alabama if I'm reading your location right.

You sure about that? I live in New Orleans... the same city that you basically call a warzone.

Excuse me... I need to go change the dressing on my gunshot wound.


Or you can just bleed to death.

[TSmith]

Don't put words in my mouth. One apartment complex, but how many are in the city. And aren't you from Alabama if I'm reading your location right.



Or you can just bleed to death.

Alright A-town... so much hate... stopped the bleeding just fine thank you.

As for your concerns about public housing... you should read up on what is happening here. After the storm, all public housing complexes were closed. Since then, a couple have reopened at the urging of Maxine Waters and a slew of African American leaders from around the country. The rest... about a dozen or so, are slated to be demolished. Mixed-income housing will go in place of the old projects. Look up River Garden to see the direction of public housing in New Orleans. It is an extremely nice development... low density, with archietecture typical of New Orleans. It is well manicured and nicely landscaped. Channel 4 here in NOLA did a story on the development several months ago. Interviews were taken with the residents... one of whom was weeding a garden in front of his unit. Imagine that. They take pride in their residences, and crime has plummeted to an almost non-existant level in that part of the city.

99% of all violent crime in New Orleans now occurs in a section of the city called "Central City"... about a 10-15 square block area. An area that, not coincidentally, contains one of those housing complexes that were reopened.

[A-town]

Thank you, this provides a very different presective than from what I am used to hearing. Usually people from New Orleans talk down about their city. But this is first time I've heard something positive. I've learned to accept people for what they are, and I realize that everyone has a different story. My personal opinion of New Orleans is that it is an amazing city that has blessed the south greatly. The New South would've became such a major commercial hub if it weren't for the use of New Orleans's ports. God bless New Orleans and the people who call it home.

[cactuspunk]

Crime isn't uniform across the city either. About 75% of all murders occur in Zones 1, 3 and 4. Murdering is much less common in other parts of the city.

http://tinyurl.com/2wlcu5

WOW, I live in Riverside (the old neighborhood off Bolton Road, not the Post development) which is zone 2 and I'm quite surprised that there have been zero murders for 2007. Who knew?!?!? And I love how you say "Murdering" as if it's a past time or something...

[Fiorenza]

I've learned to accept people for what they are

Or to not accept people for what they are not. :)

[alleystreetindustry]

i think it is just the heat burning people's brains. you see most activity during the summer in atlanta than you do any other time. new orleans is another reason. we had a good decline until hurricane katrina messed it up. but i won't blame all of new orleans, my school has had some real sweethearts come from there.

crime waves happen. you must see the crimes per capita. that is what really matters. in 2010, we'll see what exactly happened.

[Toxostoma Rufum]

For example, crime is really bad in Boston of all places right now. It's a generational thing they believe. In the early nineties crime was so bad they were considering calling in the national guard, and yet people claim Boston is a safe city. It is, downtown.

And Atlanta is a safe-ish city...in half of it.

I have lived in Atlanta (okay, downtown Decatur) for only three years now, and I have only been to two houses and zero businesses in those higher-murder districts: I do spend a lot of time on the westside of Zone 5 (the growth there bodes well for Zone 1). I've spent far more time in Columbus or Rome or even Perry or Vienna than I have in these higher-crime districts.

Another thought: since people like me spent zero money in these areas, isn't that a contributing factor to the crime? It's a chicken and egg scenario: businesses are not there because of crime, and crime is there because there is lower economic activity.

[sprtsluvr8]

For example, crime is really bad in Boston of all places right now. It's a generational thing they believe. In the early nineties crime was so bad they were considering calling in the national guard, and yet people claim Boston is a safe city. It is, downtown.

And Atlanta is a safe-ish city...in half of it.

I have lived in Atlanta (okay, downtown Decatur) for only three years now, and I have only been to two houses and zero businesses in those higher-murder districts: I do spend a lot of time on the westside of Zone 5 (the growth there bodes well for Zone 1). I've spent far more time in Columbus or Rome or even Perry or Vienna than I have in these higher-crime districts.

Another thought: since people like me spent zero money in these areas, isn't that a contributing factor to the crime? It's a chicken and egg scenario: businesses are not there because of crime, and crime is there because there is lower economic activity.


The problem I have with ranking "zones" of crime statistics....people assume that the entire zone is crime-infested and it becomes a popular belief that huge sections of the city are not safe. Just as someone wrote earlier, crime is not consistently uniform across the entire city; crime is also not consistently uniform across individual zones.

I've lived in Zone 4 for 13 years in a quiet, historic neighborhood where homes have tripled in value. I have never experienced, witnessed, or even heard about any crimes in my neighborhood...but I have experienced the stigma that some people associate with the entire Southwest side of Atlanta. People who have never been to my house who said that they don't go South of I-20 after dark...I'm sorry, but that is just complete ignorance - I would not invite someone into danger nor would I live in a danger zone. It's akin to someone never having visited Atlanta saying "Atlanta is too dangerous".

So...just keep in mind that there is no need to label "crime zones" in any city. I understand the reason APD does this....so they can assign more officers to zones with higher instances of crime. But as citizens we need to understand that the "zones" concept is not an indictment of the entire zone.

[Toxostoma Rufum]

^I agree with this 100%. There are nice neighborhoods in all of the zones. I've visited all over Atlanta to try and get to know my new home, and I've seen the good and bad all over, I just haven't had a reason to go to these places, but I wouldn't hesitate to go anywhere if I had a reason.

If East Atlanta is in one of those zones, then I've been there a bunch! :)

Back to the Boston comparision and "police zone" talk...they have specifically targeted crime cross-streets and have piled police into these areas to walk the beat.

Does anyone else here notice the rampant prostitution that happens in the shadow of City Hall East???

[sprtsluvr8]

I'm guessing East Atlanta is in zone 6, which surprisingly has the 2nd lowest number of murders in the city. I meant my post as a general comment...I didn't mean to point a finger at you. :)

Ponce has traditionally had a large share of prostitutes...although the gender of a large percentage of them should not be assumed. :naughty:

[Andrea]

Just as someone wrote earlier, crime is not consistently uniform across the entire city; crime is also not consistently uniform across individual zones.



sprtsluvr, yeah, I'm the one who said that, and I could not agree with you more. There's a lot of variation wthin the zones, and I just listed the data that way because that's how APD does it.

You coud take Zone 2, for instance, which has the lowest overall murder rate, but if you look at specific areas such as Buckhead Village back when all the killing was going on, or Piedmont Road the day that stockbroker went berserk and started murdering people, and say they were extremely dangerous parts of town.

I think there are probably certain specific areas where crime is worst. I hope we as a city can bring serious resources to bear on those problem areas, both in terms of policing but also in getting at and changing the underlying conditions. We can't have a truly healthy city until everybody feels safe, no matter what part of town they live in.

Stepping back for a moment, is Atlanta actually experiencing a crime wave? I've heard a couple of ranking police officials and ADA's say that crime was down.

[A-town]

I'm guessing East Atlanta is in zone 6, which surprisingly has the 2nd lowest number of murders in the city. I meant my post as a general comment...I didn't mean to point a finger at you. :)

Ponce has traditionally had a large share of prostitutes...although the gender of a large percentage of them should not be assumed. :naughty:

You're right East Atlanta is zone 6, but I find it hard to believe that they have the second lowest number of murders in the city. I spend alot of time in East Lake and there's always something going on. Just try driving down Glenwood at night and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Toxostoma Rufum]

You're right East Atlanta is zone 6, but I find it hard to believe that they have the second lowest number of murders in the city. I spend alot of time in East Lake and there's always something going on. Just try driving down Glenwood at night and you'll see what I'm talking about.

East Atlanta and East Lake are very different, although they're next to each other (but separated by I-20). Glenwood in East Lake is a very different place.
My friend lives on the Eastern end of East Lake at Candler and Glenwood and they're surrounded by abandonded burnt-out houses.

[TSmith]

Thank you, this provides a very different presective than from what I am used to hearing. Usually people from New Orleans talk down about their city. But this is first time I've heard something positive. I've learned to accept people for what they are, and I realize that everyone has a different story. My personal opinion of New Orleans is that it is an amazing city that has blessed the south greatly. The New South would've became such a major commercial hub if it weren't for the use of New Orleans's ports. God bless New Orleans and the people who call it home.

Kill 'em with kindness A-town... kill 'em with kindness.

I kid... but seriously, we do care about or city. It kills all of us to know that people think less of us because of Katrina. But, I can't blame 'em. You empty any major city of 100% of its citizens and surrounding cities would have problems with the influx. Every city has criminals... the only difference is that, outside of the N.O. situation, they live their whole lives in the city they live... commiting crimes. If ATL, for instance, had to kick everybody out... the criminal element has to go somewhere. Sorry it had to happen that way.

[p-snack]

I left Atlanta because of crime! I moved to Downtown Decatur.
I sold a house I owned in ATL to rent in Decatur because of crime.
It is very complex- this crime issue. What is not calculated is intimidation.
I lived in beautiful Grant Park, but on Ormewood. Many of my friends lived in GP and had no problems. I had problems daily. My fiance was carjacked in my driveway at gunpoint. She was harassed daily getting in her car or at the traffic light or stop sign- followed- you name it. Every car I owned was stolen. My house was tagged. Racial insults yelled from passing cars. Bottles thrown at me from passing cars. Constant gunshots from that paradise-Tressletree. Several attempted break-ins while at home. I absolutely refused to buy a gun because I new I would use it.There wasn't enough street lighting and nearly impossible to get anything done about it. It was tiring.
Part of the problem was being on a major road- Ormewood being the only way other than Confederate to get to downtown from Southeast- so every thug from the SE side drove, walked or bussed by my house. Also when a housing project was torn down, such as capital homes, I would notice more loiters about. So the dislocation theory- New Orleans- makes a lot of sense.

Also I do alot of maintenance work around the Glenwood corridor and it just seems that it has taken a many steps backwards after gaining ground.
More trash, more derelict homes, more loiters.
Most ATL folks driving from their shiny new condo in their shiny new car to that shiny club or bistro don't see this stuff.

[atl2phx]

I left Atlanta because of crime! I moved to Downtown Decatur.
I sold a house I owned in ATL to rent in Decatur because of crime.
It is very complex- this crime issue. What is not calculated is intimidation.
I absolutely refused to buy a gun because I new I would use it.

i can understand where your coming from ~ many are averse to gun ownership of which i have no qualms ~ in particular if you have kids in the house. personally, i would have sent a loud and clear message very early on, with a gun in fact.

[SteveD]

I live on Ormewood Avenue right now just to the west of Moreland, and I've had (relatively) few problems in the last few years, but I'm moving one mile east into East Atlanta Village, and I expect conditions to be a little more dicey over there. My partner and I will have three dogs there by the time we both move in, two of them large and aggressive, but we've also been kicking around the idea of buying a gun. My current 'hood is nearly completely gentrified, but where I'm moving I have a suspected crack house across the street and a boarded up home four doors down, and the 'hood is just now starting to gentrify. MARTA also runs directly past my new home, whereas it turns the corner a few houses up from me at my current residence. My new home was broken into the week before I closed on it.

[p-snack]

I also got sick of my dog barking all night!

[p-snack]

i can understand where your coming from ~ many are averse to gun ownership of which i have no qualms ~ in particular if you have kids in the house. personally, i would have sent a loud and clear message very early on, with a gun in fact.

I'm not opposed to the gun thing - I just don't necessarily trust myself with it. For instance, when they stole my pick up truck- its rumble woke me up only to see it fading down the street. When I called the police- my truck drove right back up ormewood stopped nearly in front of my house-why I don't know- there I was on the front porch on the phone with the police- in a rage... bad time to own a gun!

[p-snack]

Steve D.- I have two other friends on Ormewood who've never had a problem.
I was just unlucky... I would have kept it for investment reasons but it needed too many repairs to rent and If your woman or partner has got to go- you either go or let them go.
In spite of the negative tint to my posts- there are builders scratching out new homes throughout the SE corridor in spite of the scourge.

[jmcgoblue]

:previous: and people wonder why most folks prefer to live in the suburbs. The biggest problem I have to deal with in my suburban 'hood is occasionally finding dog shiot in my yard.

[Rail Claimore]

I'm not opposed to the gun thing - I just don't necessarily trust myself with it. For instance, when they stole my pick up truck- its rumble woke me up only to see it fading down the street. When I called the police- my truck drove right back up ormewood stopped nearly in front of my house-why I don't know- there I was on the front porch on the phone with the police- in a rage... bad time to own a gun!

A lot of people have that attitude, and I did for the longest time... till I familiarized myself with firearms. Learn to use one before keeping it loaded in a safe place. And get your Georgia Firearms License so you can carry. It's quite a responsibility, but as I and many others say, it's better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it. You've been lucky so far. The best thing to do is avoid confrontation in the first place by moving, and becoming a gun-owner might make you even more conscious of avoiding confrontation. Despite what gun-grabbers might say, no law-abiding citizen who owns one ever wants to use it to harm another human being. If you have no other choice, only then should the variable become part of the equation.

[A-town]

I left Atlanta because of crime! I moved to Downtown Decatur.
I sold a house I owned in ATL to rent in Decatur because of crime.
It is very complex- this crime issue. What is not calculated is intimidation.
I lived in beautiful Grant Park, but on Ormewood. Many of my friends lived in GP and had no problems. I had problems daily. My fiance was carjacked in my driveway at gunpoint. She was harassed daily getting in her car or at the traffic light or stop sign- followed- you name it. Every car I owned was stolen. My house was tagged. Racial insults yelled from passing cars. Bottles thrown at me from passing cars. Constant gunshots from that paradise-Tressletree. Several attempted break-ins while at home. I absolutely refused to buy a gun because I new I would use it.There wasn't enough street lighting and nearly impossible to get anything done about it. It was tiring.
Part of the problem was being on a major road- Ormewood being the only way other than Confederate to get to downtown from Southeast- so every thug from the SE side drove, walked or bussed by my house. Also when a housing project was torn down, such as capital homes, I would notice more loiters about. So the dislocation theory- New Orleans- makes a lot of sense.

Also I do alot of maintenance work around the Glenwood corridor and it just seems that it has taken a many steps backwards after gaining ground.
More trash, more derelict homes, more loiters.
Most ATL folks driving from their shiny new condo in their shiny new car to that shiny club or bistro don't see this stuff.

I could've said it better.

[ThrashATL]

I live on Ormewood Avenue right now just to the west of Moreland, and I've had (relatively) few problems in the last few years, but I'm moving one mile east into East Atlanta Village, and I expect conditions to be a little more dicey over there. My partner and I will have three dogs there by the time we both move in, two of them large and aggressive, but we've also been kicking around the idea of buying a gun. My current 'hood is nearly completely gentrified, but where I'm moving I have a suspected crack house across the street and a boarded up home four doors down, and the 'hood is just now starting to gentrify. MARTA also runs directly past my new home, whereas it turns the corner a few houses up from me at my current residence. My new home was broken into the week before I closed on it.

I guess I won't get so upset at the bird seed thieving raccoon that makes a mockery of my security measures out here in far flung Forsyth.

[Fiorenza]

Having owned several rental properties in the Glenwood/Moreland area over the last 20 years, the area has always been a challenge. However, I find it disconcerting if the area is actually losing the gains that have been achieved there. I'm not sure if I buy that.

[greg30127]

I think they call it the New Orleans Effect.

I haven't read all the posts yet, but I will agree to this. I know a couple of people in law enforcement and they're not rambo types of guys - very sensible. And they both confirmed with me when this topic came up at dinner once night that yes, Atlanta and a few other areas saw an immediate jump in certain crimes post-Katrina.

Actually, the media reported on it back when it was "new news". Every time a crime was commited and the person had New Orleans IDs on them, they pretty much made a point of mentioning that to on the news reports, almost as if to say, "Well, at least it wasn't one of OUR criminals". But - their criminals never went home. They stayed. And now after so much time they are "Atlanta criminals".

The strongest jump was in Houston, supposedly followed by Baton Rouge, then Atlanta, Savannah, and a few other scattered smaller areas. So again, sorry if I'm repeating anything but I commented when I saw the quote above just to confirm that at least law enforcement guys I know here have said this all along based on IDs they were/are getting from guys they catch since Katrina "relocated" the criminal element as well as the real victims.

Add: Regarding the burbs - crooks have cars. Killers have cars. The three Kenyan women who were murdered in their home was only 1 mile from me in Powder Springs - a relatively unheard of area even today by some. More and more it looks like a "hit" than a random thing, but still, we've had our share of crime and in some cases they catch guys that came over here from Atlanta to do the stuff. As long as there are cars (uh - forever), then it's not just a city problem.

Also, the numbers as a whole probably are a bit higher, though. Remember, it wasn't but what - 3 years ago or so (?) that the Feds caught the Atlanta PD at not reporting all of the crimes properly so the crime stats looked better. It was some insane number like 20,000+ crimes that were not reported! Even some harder ones like rape, etc. Everyone played dumb about it and did the "clerical errors" junk, but I have no idea if anyone's head got chopped - the media moved on to other things and I never found a "conclusion story" to it. The chief's obviously never got pinned for it - he's still here. But it does make you wonder if his "miracle" in New Orleans dropping the crime stats had anything to do with numbers not getting reported and he was trying the same thing here but got caught. Hmmmmmm. No way to know for sure, though.

[A-town]

I haven't read all the posts yet, but I will agree to this. I know a couple of people in law enforcement and they're not rambo types of guys - very sensible. And they both confirmed with me when this topic came up at dinner once night that yes, Atlanta and a few other areas saw an immediate jump in certain crimes post-Katrina.

Actually, the media reported on it back when it was "new news". Every time a crime was commited and the person had New Orleans IDs on them, they pretty much made a point of mentioning that to on the news reports, almost as if to say, "Well, at least it wasn't one of OUR criminals". But - their criminals never went home. They stayed. And now after so much time they are "Atlanta criminals".

The strongest jump was in Houston, supposedly followed by Baton Rouge, then Atlanta, Savannah, and a few other scattered smaller areas. So again, sorry if I'm repeating anything but I commented when I saw the quote above just to confirm that at least law enforcement guys I know here have said this all along based on IDs they were/are getting from guys they catch since Katrina "relocated" the criminal element as well as the real victims.

Add: Regarding the burbs - crooks have cars. Killers have cars. The three Kenyan women who were murdered in their home was only 1 mile from me in Powder Springs - a relatively unheard of area even today by some. More and more it looks like a "hit" than a random thing, but still, we've had our share of crime and in some cases they catch guys that came over here from Atlanta to do the stuff. As long as there are cars (uh - forever), then it's not just a city problem.

Also, the numbers as a whole probably are a bit higher, though. Remember, it wasn't but what - 3 years ago or so (?) that the Feds caught the Atlanta PD at not reporting all of the crimes properly so the crime stats looked better. It was some insane number like 20,000+ crimes that were not reported! Even some harder ones like rape, etc. Everyone played dumb about it and did the "clerical errors" junk, but I have no idea if anyone's head got chopped - the media moved on to other things and I never found a "conclusion story" to it. The chief's obviously never got pinned for it - he's still here. But it does make you wonder if his "miracle" in New Orleans dropping the crime stats had anything to do with numbers not getting reported and he was trying the same thing here but got caught. Hmmmmmm. No way to know for sure, though.

Well said, I'm glad I'm not the only one that has insight on these issues.

[TSmith]

I will admit... Katrina serves as a perfect excuse for cities that are experiencing an increase in violent crime. Instead of citing "people you know"... cite statistics with residence history of the perpetrators. Serioulsly, can you produce that? Probably not. Please prove me wrong with statistics. Otherwise, stop the N.O. bashing.

A-town, I know we've had our run-ins in this thread... one in which you wished that I would bleed to death... but seriously, instead of your supposed "insights", post some statistics.

[A-town]

I will admit... Katrina serves as a perfect excuse for cities that are experiencing an increase in violent crime. Instead of citing "people you know"... cite statistics with residence history of the perpetrators. Serioulsly, can you produce that? Probably not. Please prove me wrong with statistics. Otherwise, stop the N.O. bashing.

A-town, I know we've had our run-ins in this thread... one in which you wished that I would bleed to death... but seriously, instead of your supposed "insights", post some statistics.

Or maybe you can post some statistics that prove us wrong.

[sprtsluvr8]

The statistics that are available don't paint the picture of violence in Atlanta like you described and doesn't attribute crimes to former New Orleans residents....so the statistics support the opposite of your description - those have already been discussed.

The challenge was asking you to post some statistics and/or documented examples that support your assertions of a violent Atlanta.

[A-town]

After Katrina, New Orleans Crime Moves to Other Cities
Some Areas Where Evacuees Resettled Report Spike in Crime
From WNT
NEW ORLEANS, Nov. 16, 2005

New Orleans police say they have never seen so much peace and quiet on the city's streets.

"We haven't seen a robbery since the beginning of August," said Lt. Troy Savage, who patrols what was once the city's most violent neighborhood.

"We're probably at this point, one of the safest communities in the United States," he said.

Police said a woman was stabbed to death Tuesday night -- the first such incident in 90 days, a record in this city.

Since Hurricane Katrina forced most of the residents to relocate, police say, the daily shootings and killings have stopped.

"This was the most lethal criminal underclass in the United States," said Dr. Peter Scharf, director of the University of New Orleans Center for Society, Law and Justice. "We were heading for a murder rate of 72 per 100,000. New York City is at seven."

Scharf says, according to city records, there were 265 murders in New Orleans last year, 258 murders in 2003, and 275 in 2002.

Warren J. Riley, New Orleans' acting superintendent of police, says the drug dealers and gangs evacuated with the residents and haven't returned.

"We're a small town; we're Mayberry right now," Riley said.


Crime Wave Spreads
By some estimates, hardcore criminals in New Orleans numbered in the tens of thousands, and they're now living in other cities -- Baton Rouge, Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston.

Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt says crime is up in neighborhoods where large numbers of evacuees have settled.

He says he needs 400 new officers and has asked the Federal Emergency Management Agency for financial assistance.

"We're not going to let anyone come into the city and break the law at will," Hurtt said.

Last week, Houston police arrested a New Orleans man charged with four murders.

In Georgia, police have been busy busting alleged New Orleans drug dealers trying set up shop in and around Atlanta.

As a result, residents in some places are beginning to roll up the welcome mat. It's a criminal element some cities didn't expect, and New Orleans doesn't want back.

[LouisianaCharm]

its just a shame to me that all these cities with long histories of crime, all of a sudden blame new orleans for the crime in their cities. well i gotta stat for ya. WWW.MORGANQUITNO.COM................go check the stats for the last 5 years, ten years, fifteen years, and see where atlanta ranks relative to other cities, and that will let you know how dangerous atlanta has been over the years.......so stop blaming new orleans for your problems..........

[Toxostoma Rufum]

DUH...we all know Atlanta has had chronically bad crime for decades. We've had a spike in crime partly due to displaced criminals from NO. It's not the reason why there is crime here, and nobody is arguing that. It's just a significant part of the discussion that ought to be brought up.

Take your patronizing NO charm elsewhere.

New Orleans is a safe town, though, right? ;)

[LouisianaCharm]

^^about as safe as atlanta...................

[Toxostoma Rufum]

^^about as safe as atlanta...................

I guess you missed Andrea's post early in this thread that nearly 75% of the murders happen in the poorer districts.

Would this apply to New Orleans as well?

[LouisianaCharm]

^^^im not gonna go back and forth with you. you take what you want from what i said, but the fact remains that before and after katrina, atlanta is and has always been one of americas most dangerous cities. yes n.o., has its problems, but thats one thing about us, we dont blame our problems on other elements, and we know we have problems. you can empty beverly hills, and move them into san francisco, and crime will rise, especially when they go there with nothing. its in peoples nature to survive at all cost. for some reason, the people of atlanta and houston think their cities were crime free utopias before katrina. check the stats man........ out

[sprtsluvr8]

Most of us aren't blaming New Orleans for anything...so there's no need to really keep that debate going. What you're talking about was the opinion of one or two people in this forum, and not the majority.

[loupremo]

you can say whatever you want about Katrina evacuees. But people seem to overlook the great music, food and overall vibe they bring along with them.

look...new orleans in houston!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIAU-jcAFcw