MECCA | Abraj Al-Bait | 601m | 1972ft | 95 fl | T/O

[CarlosV]

wow, the interior shots of the hotel look stunning, the crown is beautiful especially at night, but the rest of the building is just too much...to me it belongs in Las Vegas!

[GulfArabia]

openning

cL7brI-7l0Y

video shot from the very top

E7K1yeAGYfc

[CarlosV]

^^^

:omg:

[PZelda]

That video made me want to vomit! Nothing wrong with it - I have a fear of heights to a certain degree. *Inside* buildings (and in enclosed but outdoors observatories like at Top of the Rock and the ESB in NYC), fine. Airplanes, fine. But if you're totally out in the open like that... I just want to vomit! That guy is brave.

[flotsam]

It looks for all the world like a mantelpiece ornament of the ornate kind of a bygone age. Weird name, weird clock with islamic moon. Weird.
Video makes me feel sick but at least it is not like the slimline tall buildings which seem to be the rage. It has bulk below the tower. More stable?

[Ed007Toronto]

All I can say is YUCK!

[The Imster]

This building is goin to capture the hearts of many over time. I hope we can get some better angle shots of the building - a helicopter slight birds eye view shots would be nice - it will grow on people and hopefully be marveled like the rest

[Chicago103]

When is the observation deck going to open? According to what I have read it is supposed to be the highest observation deck in the world.

[FTP]

OMG that video link is hard to watch. VERTIGO!

[Sam Hill]

This building looks like a Vegas novelty building...but on a obnoxiously giant scale. Weird. Just....just weird. I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry.

[Sam Hill]

OMG that video link is hard to watch.

You mean the first one?

[The Imster]

Once the surrounding areas are done up and the finishing touches are done to the complex - it will look better. I hope someone can post high bird eye view of the building - showing it height in relation to the ground. It is deceptively tall when you look at it from the ground and from pictures from certain angles

[JayCortese]

.

[JayCortese]

.

[Ed007Toronto]

Not sure what to think about this. A bit over the top I guess.

[Tom In Chicago]

Not sure what to think about this. A bit over the top I guess.

You already told us what you thought about this just a few posts ago. . .

All I can say is YUCK!

Thanks for sharing :)

. . .

[McShadyPL]

Sigh. This is a ghastly monstrosity.

[Guiltyspark]

Sigh. This is a ghastly monstrosity.

I keep waiting to find any redeeming qualities, but no. Just super tacky. Sometimes I am jealous of towers going up in other parts of the world. Not this time...

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

I keep waiting to find any redeeming qualities, but no. Just super tacky. Sometimes I am jealous of towers going up in other parts of the world. Not this time...

Yeah. I could maybe appreciate the totally absurd, over-the-top, nouveau riche tackiness if it weren't towering over the holiest site of the world's second largest religion.

[photoLith]

Ive never really liked this tower, yes its hugely impressive but it just looks like a tacky trophy. Sorry Meccanites/Meccanesians.

[Mystic Crusader]

Looks like something you would find on Coruscant.

[FrumYid]

The guy taking videos from the outdoor patio is nuts.

[yousef]

Clock Tower on the night of Eid 1433H - برج الساعة ليلة العيد


qRnAaxlSDmA

[Bill Ditnow]

What a grotesque, ghastly insult to Mecca and Islam this monstrosity is. It embodies vile values of garish pretentiousness and love of money, exemplified by pointless ostentatious preening, like a peacock with feathers run amok. Who is responsible for this mindless mess?

[GO_UAE]

What a grotesque, ghastly insult to Mecca and Islam this monstrosity is. It embodies vile values of garish pretentiousness and love of money, exemplified by pointless ostentatious preening, like a peacock with feathers run amok. Who is responsible for this mindless mess?

Pam , season 6 , Episode 22, Minute 4:50 of "The Office" :yes:

It is true that a mosque, let alone Mecca, needs to be a place for worship and not this sort of Architecture

Though i do think you are more insulted by this structure than Islam and Muslims :haha:

[Surrealplaces]

Man I hate this building. IMO it's a blight on Mecca..... an otherwise interesting city that is now dominated by a cheap monstrous Vegas looking building. :yuck:

[PhillyToNYC]

that is the ugliest thing i've ever seen.

This post on page one of this thread basically sums it up for me.

[photoLith]

Time to tear it down and start all over.

[Spantik]

It's big, really big. Proves a real point, although im not quite sure what... hmm....

[Guiltyspark]

Looks like something you would find on Coruscant.

It is not nearly sleek enough for that.

[Chicago103]

So is this thing officially open yet? When will the observation deck open? Supposedly the observation deck will be the highest in the world.

[The Imster]

The tower will grow on people visiting there as well as Skyscraper enthusiasts. What need to see some really nice aerial shots showing its full height from unique angles and some good pictures of it

[vanman]

I have to admit, the sheer size of this thing is impressive. Other than that, I can't think of a single good thing about it. People keep complaining about how this is so close to Mecca, but in the eyes of the people visiting Mecca, it's a thing of beauty. They look up at it and think "This is the power of Islam". Many of the people visiting Mecca have probably never even seen a building that's over 1000 feet tall before, so this thing has a massive impact on them. Seeing a giant golden crescent moon suspended 1800 feet in the air is impressive regardless, but even more so if you live in a mud hut.

You don't sound racist at all.


I agree this complex is garish and should not have been placed so closely to Mecca, however it is anything but cheap. Look at the materials used, both inside and out, as well as the level of detail that has gone into everything. If anything it is Vegas that is cheap.

[Cro Burnham]

You don't sound racist at all.


I agree this complex is garish and should not have been placed so closely to Mecca, however it is anything but cheap. Look at the materials used, both inside and out, as well as the level of detail that has gone into everything. If anything it is Vegas that is cheap.

This is the ugliest skyscraper ever built on many levels. I don't need to be a Muslim to say that this is an arrogant affront to the deepest spiritual values at the core of Islam or any other great religion that rejects materialism. It is hubris, a false idol, a golden calf, representative of everything the most important spiritual allegories tell us are human beings' worst flaws.

[Duck From NY]

The tower will grow on people visiting there as well as Skyscraper enthusiasts. What need to see some really nice aerial shots showing its full height from unique angles and some good pictures of it

Few skyscraper enthusiasts will be allowed near there.

[Jstaleness]

Any guess' as to when Las Vegas will build one too?

[Phat Stanley]

Any guess' as to when Las Vegas will build one too?

LOL... it does seem like it belongs right at the end of The Strip, doesn't it? I never knew Islam was so completely over the top in a Vegas kinda way!

[Boquillas]

LOL... it does seem like it belongs right at the end of The Strip, doesn't it? I never knew Islam was so completely over the top in a Vegas kinda way!

People keep repeating the Vegas thing, but don't seem to have a clue what's going on architecturally here or there. The Bellagio and the Venetian are cheap imitations of Venetian architecture, which in turn was once its own cheap imitation of Moorish North African Islamic architecture. This is actual Islamic architecture-- more correctly a palimpsest of the many cultural manifestations it has taken over the years. One can see the Alhambra, the Dome of the Rock, Al-Masjid al-Nabawi, on and on.

But why educate yourself about these things?

I'm not a fan of the building, but it doesn't take a lot of architecture or art history classes to know where these elements and motifs come from.

Also, @CroBurnham: the hubris elements of the building are most decidedly western-inspired. Nobody does hubris better than Americans. The art-deco Chrysler building seemed uncommonly garish and cheap to many who derided its flat, riveted, unadorned steel in simple radiating geometric patterns, which were at odds with the ornament and filigree of the predominant Beaux-Arts styles at the time. And it was fantastically, egomaniacally tall, too. But hey, it's great now, huh?

[Phat Stanley]

:whip: Well... I guess you told me, huh. I feel so ashamed now.

[The Jerk]

People keep repeating the Vegas thing, but don't seem to have a clue what's going on architecturally here or there. The Bellagio and the Venetian are cheap imitations of Venetian architecture, which in turn was once its own cheap imitation of Moorish North African Islamic architecture. This is actual Islamic architecture-- more correctly a palimpsest of the many cultural manifestations it has taken over the years. One can see the Alhambra, the Dome of the Rock, Al-Masjid al-Nabawi, on and on.

But why educate yourself about these things?

I'm not a fan of the building, but it doesn't take a lot of architecture or art history classes to know where these elements and motifs come from.

Also, @CroBurnham: the hubris elements of the building are most decidedly western-inspired. Nobody does hubris better than Americans. The art-deco Chrysler building seemed uncommonly garish and cheap to many who derided its flat, riveted, unadorned steel in simple radiating geometric patterns, which were at odds with the ornament and filigree of the predominant Beaux-Arts styles at the time. And it was fantastically, egomaniacally tall, too. But hey, it's great now, huh?

Wait, so you deign to compare this project to the Chrysler Building? Unadorned and riveted in 1929? Is this Ayn Rand>?

Absolutely ridiculous diatribe considering this structure was designed by Western engineers, the clock by Swiss and Germans. Yet if you're not of the Islamic faith you are not allowed anywhere near it. It's a shame.

[Albicaulis]

All religious issues and cultural commentary aside; this project, as a stand alone piece of archicture, is pretty bad.

The enginnering, construction and sheer magnitude of this building is extremely impressive and I find it fascinating, despite my views on the actual finished product.

As the Eiffel Tower is the classic example of a contemporarily despised masterpiece, I cannot comment on how future generation will view this building.

[FTP]

People keep repeating the Vegas thing, but don't seem to have a clue what's going on architecturally here or there. The Bellagio and the Venetian are cheap imitations of Venetian architecture, which in turn was once its own cheap imitation of Moorish North African Islamic architecture. This is actual Islamic architecture-- more correctly a palimpsest of the many cultural manifestations it has taken over the years. One can see the Alhambra, the Dome of the Rock, Al-Masjid al-Nabawi, on and on.

But why educate yourself about these things?

I'm not a fan of the building, but it doesn't take a lot of architecture or art history classes to know where these elements and motifs come from.

Also, @CroBurnham: the hubris elements of the building are most decidedly western-inspired. Nobody does hubris better than Americans. The art-deco Chrysler building seemed uncommonly garish and cheap to many who derided its flat, riveted, unadorned steel in simple radiating geometric patterns, which were at odds with the ornament and filigree of the predominant Beaux-Arts styles at the time. And it was fantastically, egomaniacally tall, too. But hey, it's great now, huh?


Chrysler building is an honest, streamlined, yet bold phantasmagorical tribute to the essence of height of civilization itself. It was built in an era of unforeseen cultural reinvention of architectural limits themselves. Even without its height, the Chrysler building stamps an eternal imprint of human achievement in a way no other image can.

The Abraj does none of this.

[simms3_redux]

Mecca, a holy city, has been officially turned into a shrine of wealth and power instead. Pilgrims will now make the journey to worship, but not before gazing in awe at the wealth, magnificence and power of their religion. How pathetic. Glad we're not giving this one props just to be PC, and if I were allowed to visit Mecca, it would be to see the Masjid al-Haram and the Kaaba, not this offensive homage to Islamic architecture. This thing would be only half as offensive if it were in Vegas as an Arabic themed hotel/casino...that's really where it belongs. Of course it wouldn't have been so bad if they had put it in Jeddah either (still ugly of course...nothing could possibly change that).

[NewYorkDominates]

Chrysler building is an honest, streamlined, yet bold phantasmagorical tribute to the essence of height of civilization itself. It was built in an era of unforeseen cultural reinvention of architectural limits themselves. Even without its height, the Chrysler building stamps an eternal imprint of human achievement in a way no other image can.

The Abraj does none of this.

+1 Word.

[Tom In Chicago]

[MODERATOR NOTE]The discussion here is once again digressing and does not meet the minimum standards for this message-board. . . everyone here is entitled to an opinion, however if your opinion is redundant, you are not adding anything new to the conversation and will be disciplined for trolling. . . any further posts that need to be deleted will be met with suspension. . . do not reply to this message as it will be met with stoic ambivalence. . . please think before you post. . . thanks in advance. . .

. . .

[Inkoumori]

Worth reading;
A well reasoned critique from The Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/oct/23/mecca-architecture-hajj1

The developers have somehow transformed a type of architecture that evolved from a dense urban grain of low-rise courtyards and narrow streets into meaningless wallpaper: an endlessly repeatable pattern for the decoration of standardised slab after standardised slab.

Alawi describes the imminent arrival of yet more seven-star hotels even closer to the mosque than the al-Bait clocktower, as well as proposals to develop Jabal Khandama, on the hills to the east, which will likely see the erasure of the site where the prophet Muhammad was born. Alawi says this wilful destruction of Islamic heritage is no accident: it is driven by state-endorsed wahhabism, the hardline interpretation of Islam that perceives historical sites as encouraging sinful idolatry. So anything that relates to the prophet could be in the bulldozer's sights.

The building work has inevitably changed the hajj experience for everyone. Aside from the increased pollution and heavy machinery, there is more segregation along economic and class lines.

[VelvetElvis]

I saw the rendering of this building some time ago and only quickly noted that it would be built in Mecca. I thought it not altogether curious because of the supertall building trends in some arab countries. I had no idea it was built in such proximity and with obvious concern for the Kaaba! I just wrapped up the Islamic art section in my art history course which included images (bird's eye view) of believers wrapping up their hajj by circumambulating the Kaaba. Now I'm going to have to show my students that new image of the veneration occuring at the base of that gigantic contemporary monolith! I have no immediate opinion of what kind of real or symbolic effect the building will have on Islam, but I can't help but sense it will be powerful. Is the building meant to evoke a minaret? Wow...

[VelvetElvis]

Great article Ivymike. I'm a little embarrassed that I teach topics that orbit this stuff in college but find myself so suddenly uninformed about what is happening in Mecca. (In my defense, Islamic art is hardly a specialty of mine.) Of course it makes sense that realestate is so expensive near the mosque and that all the construction is oriented so that it is facing the Kaaba. I do feel like I just stepped out of a time machine though. Suddenly I realize the year is 2012 and the world looks nothing like it did just a few years ago. Unbelieveable the pace of change! And this much change can't easily be assimilated. The reverberations (whether positive or negative) must be epic in the Islamic world!

[GulfArabia]

Pictures: Mecca clock tower hugging clouds

بالصور: ساعة برج مكة المكرمة تعانق السحب


http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238411.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238412.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238413.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238414.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238416.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238417.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238418.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238419.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238420.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238421.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238422.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238423.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/resources/static/content/images/larger2/-238425.jpg

http://arabic.arabianbusiness.com/gallery/2012/oct/24/261981/

[GulfArabia]

A new render...
http://www.tareebnews.com/contents/newsm/25150.jpg

http://www.tareebnews.com/news.php?action=show&id=25150


http://www.okaz.com.sa/new/Issues/20120921/Images/b17.jpg




This photo contains many projects

[GulfArabia]

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/598658_10151098987221937_424177487_n.jpg


:nuts::nuts:
Alot has changed

[LSyd]

if the proportions were better (2/3 size maybe?) it would be gorgeous. as is, it's fugly.

-

[ThatOneGuy]

^^ What the hell! Is that the view?? Looked like it was taken from a helicopter! I was actually looking for the building in that picture!

[Salakast]

Ok fine, I'll be the one to disagree with the popular opinions here. I don't like the Saudi government nor do I think many construction projects in Saudi Arabia are needed at all, BUT I do think this building is gorgeous IMO. It's enormous and I think the architecture really suits Mecca. It has sort of a powerful tone to it as well. Also, it has a nice blend of the historic Islam look with the powerful modern globalist look. If I were Muslim and this was the first thing I saw on my pilgrimage to Mecca, I would probably feel more spiritual than ever.

[Ed007Toronto]

Enormous and very ugly. Sorry.

[Crawford]

This might be the most grotesque and offensive project I have ever seen.

It basically insults the 1.7 billion Muslims at their holiest site, while producing a caricture of a design that offends anyone with functioning eyes.

[06hdfxdwg]

Beside the fact that it looks like it's built in the middle of Bumf**k pennsyltucky,it's way too gawdy and in short,is about the ugliest building i think i've ever laid eyes on. It's like they built this thing in the middle of the frikken desert and theres absolutely nothing around it to compliment it. It sticks out like a sore thumb. LMFAO

[LMich]

While the proportions are horrible, and the architecture is cheap-looking, postmodern trash that should offend both modern and classic sensibilities, I think it's silly to say it's "built in the middle of nowhere." Mecca a metropolitan area of nearly 3 million people built on some very interesting terrain just 50 miles inland from the largest port on the Red Sea and second largest city in Saudi Arabia. This isn't some physical backwater.

[The North One]

We loathe it because, to us, it looks hideous. There's not much new here. Building big buildings to attract attention and display wealth is not new. Nor is this the first time someone has tried to create a mean time (in this case, a new mean time) in the name of supposed cultural-superiority.

Those Cathedrals you spoke of revolutionized architecture and created new styles. To me, this building signifies a very tacky "new gold" sense of unearned arrogance.

I get your point about Cathedrals being over-the-top and possibly even wasteful for their time, but do you really think the Al-Baijwhatever will stand the test of time like this beauty has?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laon_Cathedral

Could not have said it better myself.

[VelvetElvis]

Conversations about "taste" are a waste of time. Even Kant didn't succeed in laying out objective aesthetic standards. What the Saudis have given us is a structure that fits into Islamic architectural tradition pretty well in some ways. Historically, Muslims have been taking structures from other traditions (in particular Judeo-Christian traditions) and adding to them. They borrowed so much from Byzantine church designs in past ages. Here, they stick with that impulse of "finishing up" other culture's structures. After all, Islam sees itself as the extension and end game of the Hebrew Bible. So they borrow the skyscraper from western culture and put an Islamic skin and top on it and plop it down in Mecca. This is a very consistent approach from the Nation of Islam. Whether you like the look of the structure or not is beside the point. It seems to be built as a call to prayer and faith while also a means of projecting power and influence. So the question really becomes, pass or fail? I don't think it has succeeded in raising many eyebrows in the west. 99% of westerners are probably unaware of its existence. So, to narrow this down, what effect has it, or will it have on Muslims. As many have already noted, it seems to represent a line in the sand between wealth and power within Islam and those who are simple believers and/or constitute the average core of the culture. Again, I think the building's legacy will not be in its aesthetic, but in the effect it produces in the Islamic culture. you can't plop this kind of structure down in the middle of Mecca and expect it to have no impact!

[Fatality]

I think its ridiculous that they bring this to a religious city. The muslims will just fall into this because it says ALLAH aat the top and since its so big and "spititual". This building was made to make a profit like others and it is jus tsad that they do so by making people believe that that big building is as spiritual as anything else there. It Isn't! Just go there if you need a place to stay but not to pray or stay...people go to pray at the "kaaba" (the real reason they even came) not some fancy ass las vegas style hotel trying to a quick buck.

[Duck From NY]

This is a very consistent approach from the Nation of Islam.
-
Que?

[GulfArabia]

I think its ridiculous that they bring this to a religious city. The muslims will just fall into this because it says ALLAH aat the top and since its so big and "spititual". This building was made to make a profit like others and it is jus tsad that they do so by making people believe that that big building is as spiritual as anything else there. It Isn't! Just go there if you need a place to stay but not to pray or stay...people go to pray at the "kaaba" (the real reason they even came) not some fancy ass las vegas style hotel trying to a quick buck.

No one said this building is spiritual .. It's an endowment

[Starsky]

All religious issues and cultural commentary aside; this project, as a stand alone piece of archicture, is pretty bad.

The enginnering, construction and sheer magnitude of this building is extremely impressive and I find it fascinating, despite my views on the actual finished product.

As the Eiffel Tower is the classic example of a contemporarily despised masterpiece, I cannot comment on how future generation will view this building.

This. I agree, I think the building...especially the top look's incredibly ugly, but it is an impressive feat of engineering. I have absolutely no problem with Saudi's doing it in Mecca near the Kaaba, muslims have been desecrating many different religious shrines, monuments for centuries(and no I don't care if someone is offended by this, the Bhuddist shrines in Afghanistan didn't get any love, The Jewish Temple in Jerusalem with the Al-Aqsa mosque on top of the remains, the beautiful Church in old Constantinople).

Maybe they can build a Church of Scientology Celebrity Supercenter for Tom Cruise & Jon Travolta right on top of it.

[Cro Burnham]

Also, @CroBurnham: the hubris elements of the building are most decidedly western-inspired. Nobody does hubris better than Americans. The art-deco Chrysler building seemed uncommonly garish and cheap

Yes, yes, the Americans do hubris the best (and the western Europeans do unfounded self-righteousness best); yes, this Disneyesque-schlock is western-inspired. So what? It's still hubris-ridden schlock dwarfing one of the most important religious/cultural sites in the world.

Perhaps because of my American hubris, I am fully confident this will neverbe equated aesthetically with the Chrysler Building or anything other than an enormous, offensive pile of architectural doo doo. But if someone were to propose a crescent-adorned Chrysler Building (rather than a giant crescent-adorned Big Ben) on top of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, I would say it is equally hubris-ridden schlock too, and a materialistic affront to the spiritualism that is at the core of the religion.

I'd expect something like this next to a Scientology Temple or one of those for-profit Televangelist cathedrals in California.

[Salakast]

Oh this is hilarious. An American conservative, American liberal and a Saudi all in the same thread. This can only go so well.

[Duck From NY]

I have absolutely no problem with Saudi's doing it in Mecca near the Kaaba, muslims have been desecrating many different religious shrines, monuments for centuries(and no I don't care if someone is offended by this, the Bhuddist shrines in Afghanistan didn't get any love, The Jewish Temple in Jerusalem with the Al-Aqsa mosque on top of the remains, the beautiful Church in old Constantinople)
-
The Dome of the Rock was built in 691, and the Al-Asqa mosque shortly after. The Ottomans conquered Constantinople in 1453. There's no need to conflate that with the Wahhabi attitude toward historical religious sites which resulted in the leveling of the Ottoman Fortress in Mecca.

I'm not trying to be PC, I'm just identifying where the problem lies.

It's an impressive engineering feat, yes, but the building is hideous. I like the faux-tents on top of the lower peaks, and the clock tower looks impressive at night, but that's about it.

[Cro Burnham]

Oh this is hilarious. An American conservative, American liberal and a Saudi all in the same thread. This can only go so well.

may as well jump into the bomb shelter now.

[GulfArabia]

:dancing:

[The Imster]

Come one guys this is a Skyscraper forum where people appreciate or not for some buildings around the world - What I admire most about this building is the its really hides it height - personally I would have change some of the design a little and moved it 300-500 meters away from the Kaba and increased the height to 2300ft! But hey. As for the Wahhabi comment made by an earlier poster - Orthodox Muslims do not venerate religious sites of the deceased as is taught in the faith – they follow there example . I am sure the whole Mecca complex when competed will have towers surrounding it which will complement the building. At least the height of the building will provide shade to pilgrims and encourage the wind effect
NOW they need to focus on the rest of Mecca and take inspiration from Dubai, Qatar. Beautiful elegant skyscrapers are needed that look good in night and day and the best in the world - I can’t wait to see the 1KM+ tower being built and overtaking Burj Khalifa

[The Imster]

We are going to see a race for 2000ft+ skyscrapers - i hope the forum will have a special section on this - It is a shame the building missed out on 2000ft by 28feet!!!!

[bigreach]

It just doesn't look like a 2000 footer, pics do it no justice, maybe because of the surrounding buildings.. But looks that damn tall in the renders

[GulfArabia]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8202/8192086799_d94851d844_h.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majiditerji/8192086799/in/photostream

[Yankee fan for life]

As much as i don't like the design of this building i would still love to see it in person ,i think its so unfair that a person like me is not allowed to see it because of my faith but any Muslim person can go to Vatican city and enjoy the wonderful sites that Vatican city has to offer.

[Jack Guevara]

As much as i don't like the design of this building i would still love to see it in person ,i think its so unfair that a person like me is not allowed to see it because of my faith but any Muslim person can go to Vatican city and enjoy the wonderful sites that Vatican city has to offer.

Agreed. I'm not religious but I would love to see the culture in Mecca with my own eyes. There's something not right about barring "non-believers" from entering. I'm not Muslim and why should I be if I want to visit the city?

As for the building, it is interesting and unique. I love it.

[blacktrojan3921]

Agreed. I'm not religious but I would love to see the culture in Mecca with my own eyes. There's something not right about barring "non-believers" from entering. I'm not Muslim and why should I be if I want to visit the city?

Well considering that the ruling monarchy strictly follows Islamic teachings and implements laws based upon the Qur'an, it shouldn't come as a surprise. The reason for not allowing non-Muslims into Mecca is quite simple if you read the Qur'an: Sura 9:28: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.

But even then, I don't think you will be seeing much culture soon, the Saudi Royal family is fundamental believers of Wahhabism, which they reject the worship of divine proxies to God or practices and habits which they claim may lead to idolatry and polytheistic association (Shirk). And judging from these photographs the Independent managed to get, it looks like they are even demolishing parts of the Masjid al-Haram (AKA The Grand Mosque)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-photos-saudi-arabia-doesnt-want-seen--and-proof-islams-most-holy-relics-are-being-demolished-in-mecca-8536968.html

The photos Saudi Arabia doesn't want seen – and proof Islam's most holy relics are being demolished in Mecca

Jerome Taylor
Friday 15 March 2013


The authorities in Saudi Arabia have begun dismantling some of the oldest sections of Islam’s most important mosque as part of a highly controversial multi-billion expansion.


Photographs obtained by The Independent reveal how workers with drills and mechanical diggers have started demolishing some Ottoman and Abbasid sections on the eastern side of the Masjid al-Haram in Mecca.

The building, which is also known as the Grand Mosque, is the holiest site in Islam because it contains the Kaaba – the point to which all Muslims face when praying. The columns are the last remaining sections of the mosque which date back more than a few hundred years and form the inner perimeter on the outskirts of the white marble floor surrounding the Kaaba.

The new photos, taken over the last few weeks, have caused alarm among archaeologists and come as Prince Charles – a long term supporter of preserving architectural heritage – flew into Saudi Arabia yesterday for a visit with the Duchess of Cornwall. The timing of his tour has been criticised by human rights campaigners after the Saudis shot seven men in public earlier this week despite major concerns about their trial and the fact that some of the men were juveniles at the time of their alleged crimes.

Many of the Ottoman and Abbasid columns in Mecca were inscribed with intricate Arabic calligraphy marking the names of the Prophet Muhammad’s companions and key moments in the founder of Islam’s life. One column which is believed to have been ripped down is supposed to mark the sport where Muslims believe Muhammad began his heavenly journey on a winged horse which took him to Jerusalem and heaven in a single night.

[The North One]

We americans took London Bridge and now these people want Big Ben:dead:

What are you even talking about?

Edit: I just realized I responded to a post from 2007.

[The Imster]

This building is going to grow on people - i hope when the other surrounding area is completed the building will be enhanced - yes it cvould have been better and i dont know why they didnt go up to 2000ft but it is a good effort and i hope the region and city and its visitors will benefit

[PhxPavilion]

This building is going to grow on people

Not likely.

[toxteth o'grady]

I think its ridiculous that they bring this to a religious city. The muslims will just fall into this because it says ALLAH aat the top and since its so big and "spititual". This building was made to make a profit like others and it is jus tsad that they do so by making people believe that that big building is as spiritual as anything else there. It Isn't! Just go there if you need a place to stay but not to pray or stay...people go to pray at the "kaaba" (the real reason they even came) not some fancy ass las vegas style hotel trying to a quick buck.

Eh, but you know what they say - if you are free to put ketchup on a steak...

[ThatOneGuy]

I could forgive the cheap-looking cladding, the disproportionate forms and the sheer dominace over the most important site for the muslims if the building just wasn't so asymmetrical :(
I mean, the top looks skewed to one side from some viewpoints.

[Spantik]

Do you guys really think that muslims would be "insulted" by this? I'm sure they're extremely proud of it. After all, the whole building is designed around glorifying their god, just look at the crescent moon at the top and the "allah akbar" written on its clock face. It just does it in a sort of... tacky way (to us), but whatever, the sheer size of the thing is incredible and lends to this glorification. Verticality naturally inspires heavenly thoughts, for example in cathedrals, and they're just doing their own take on that in a way.

You can almost imagine all of the Muslims leaving Mecca after visiting the Kabbah and going "Did you see that huge building looming over us the whole time?! That thing was incredible!" Most of them have probably never seen anything like it before unless they live in cities with supertalls, which many do, but those are the definite minority when looking at the group as a whole, and if it's your first time seeing a supertall, it's hard for it to not have an impact on you.

Is it innovative? It's arguable, but only tenuously for the 'pro' side. Is it awe inspiringly huge? Absolutely. As for taste.... opinions opinions...

Islam rejects all western culture, it's in its nature, and this building is a perfect example of that, hence the reason why most of us can't stand it. Even if you wanted to go see the building and try to be fair in your judgment of it, if you're not a muslim, you're not getting in, and that's exactly how they want it. This is for them and their god - not for the world of architecture, and CERTAINLY not for us.

[hunser]

Islam rejects all western culture, it's in its nature, and this building is a perfect example of that, hence the reason why most of us can't stand it. Even if you wanted to go see the building and try to be fair in your judgment of it, if you're not a muslim, you're not getting in, and that's exactly how they want it. This is for them and their god - not for the world of architecture, and CERTAINLY not for us.

Amen to that. :tup:

[GO_UAE]

Would not say i agree with all your points Spantik , but one point i do agree with is this Building does not insult us as muslims but we really do NOT think of Allah or relate it to anything religious while looking at it.

The Prophet muhammed PBUH mentioned that one of the major signs of the coming of the end of the world is when bare foot bedouins start racing for the skies with buildings. So actually we might go "wow this is big eh, the prophet was right though" type of thing.....

[The Imster]

Islam rejects all western culture, it's in its nature, and this building is a perfect example of that, hence the reason why most of us can't stand it. Even if you wanted to go see the building and try to be fair in your judgment of it, if you're not a muslim, you're not getting in, and that's exactly how they want it. This is for them and their god - not for the world of architecture, and CERTAINLY not for us.[/QUOTE]



Lets get something straight Islam DOES NOT REJECT ALL Western culture - in fact much of the western civilisation has borrowed much from Islam - do your research . Please this is a Skyscraper forum for all those like you and me who admire and respect Skyscrapers. I agree the building is not the best looking in the world - it may be the largest in floor size but I like the buildings going up in China they are awesome. I believe any large skyscraper going up has to look good and compliment the buildings around it and the enhance the image of the city. I believe this building will grow on some and not on others. The Arabic scripture stands high on the building is a nice feature. Perhaps one day you might go there one day

[r18tdi]

Perhaps one day you might go there one day
It all depends on the rules. How inclusive will the site be in the future?
:dancingbacon

[William_88]

How are they gonna fill up all those rooms. My opinion is that it will look weird because there isn't really skyscrapers in Mecca so a huge building like this wil just look awkward don't ya think?:shrug:

[Duck From NY]

How are they gonna fill up all those rooms.
-
That Hajj thing

[Spantik]

Would not say i agree with all your points Spantik , but one point i do agree with is this Building does not insult us as muslims but we really do NOT think of Allah or relate it to anything religious while looking at it.



See, that's simply not true from my perspective, as the words "God is Greatest" are written on the sides of the building, and the giant golden crescent moon is on top as well, obviously attempting to inspire Islamic religious thought. It's not even done ambiguously either, they literally plastered the words on the sides of the clock tower for people to read and obey. Also, one could argue that because of its positioning, by default religious connotation is attached to it. It's a stones throw from the Kabaa, the most important site in Islam. It doesn't "insult" Muslims, but rather serve as a massive monument to the power of Islam and demonstrate that Mecca is a rapidly developing city, and one that has the tallest of tall buildings, something which has long been seen as a sign of power and prestige for any city or country lucky enough to have them. It would be solely that if the building weren't covered in religious symbolism, but that's not the case.

[GO_UAE]

for people to read and obey..

Obey ? :D sounds like cattle you are referring to haha , i know it was not your intention but i just found it funny.

I am not here to convince you otherwise , i am just giving you my opinion as an Arab and Muslim and also someone who has been to makkah several times.

It is just a modern building. Nothing Holy about it. It is as holy as the toilets you can find in Makkah all over the place. Ofcourse i am only referring to the building itself and not the religious scripture they decided to plaster all over it

To keep it simple for you. The prophet mohammed PBUH instructed us that mosques for example need to be simple (nothing fancy) which is totally the opposite to what is happening nowadays, but that is a different issue.

Islam and i would assume any religion is what you hold in your heart and not something materialistic

[10023]

This might be the most grotesque and offensive project I have ever seen.

It basically insults the 1.7 billion Muslims at their holiest site, while producing a caricture of a design that offends anyone with functioning eyes.
This.

[The Imster]

The building may not be elegant in design - but its built now and certainly quite imposing. It does not insult Muslims - I explained before the entire Mecca site in going through massive expansion and construction. Personally I feel the building is too close to the Haram. At Least Saud is going to take the title of the Worlds Tallest building around 2017 from Dubai. A skyscraper that will look good

[The Imster]

This building will grow on people - just give it time

[marvelfannumber1]

This is just wierd, I usually find myself hating buildings that most people like and loving buildings that most people hate. This is yet another example.

Yes I think it's location is terrible, yes I think it's way too tall. But the overall architecture of it is alright. Not the best I have seen certainly, heck not even a building I really like all to much but it's certainly not a monstrosity in my opinion.

[Zerton]

Looks like it would fit perfectly in Blade Runner or Rouge City.

[Ryanrule]

Wow, i wonder if they will eventually surround that central point with rich peoples highrises like this one, keeping the poors far away.