View Full Version : Downtown Vancouver hospital move draws fire
SpongeG
Apr 2, 2007, 7:08 PM
if they do move do you think they should keep the old building or just demolish the whole site?
Downtown Vancouver hospital move draws fire
The battle over moving St. Paul's Hospital from downtown Vancouver to the False Creek Flats near the train station is heating up.
The coalition that is trying to keep the busy downtown hospital at its current location on Burrard Street says the decision to move has already been made, despite promises to hold community consultations.
It claims that hospital staff were told by Providence Health Care last month the plans to move have been finalized.
Save St. Paul's Coalition spokesman Aaron Jasper told a public forum Sunday the public consultations should have happened before any preliminary plans were made.
"Any consultation that takes place after the decision is not consultation, it's a sales pitch. If this was to be meaningful consultation, it should have been done before a decision was made, [and] incorporate that feedback into the business case."
But Neil McConnell of Providence Health Care, who attended the forum, said the plans to move have not been finalized.
"Well, I tried to be very very clear. There's has been no decision relative to the hospital. And before we do that, we'll have public consultations to inform the business case. We'll rewrite it if we have to."
McConnell says the public consultations will take place in the spring and summer.
The current plan calls for part of the current St. Paul's site to be redeveloped for commercial and residential use.
Some services including urgent, primary and secondary care would also continue to be offered at the downtown location.
About 100 people attended the forum.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/04/02/bc-hospital.html
Smooth
Apr 2, 2007, 7:51 PM
I saw some posters up for this Coalition's meeting. It said something like: "What's in store for St. Paul's Hospital? P3, Privatization, Relocation? Come to our meeting to find out." Sounds like this group is trying to use scare tactics to build support for their cause.
I think the option that the health authority was exploring was to keep the remaining historical building as a clinic and community health centre and build a new facility on the false creek flats. I think upgrading the existing site would be far too expensive and would be very disruptive considering that St. Paul's is probably near capacity.
twoNeurons
Apr 2, 2007, 8:03 PM
HAs anyone got a map of the proposed location?
eduardo88
Apr 2, 2007, 8:18 PM
hopefully they do some sort of P3 project for the new hospital. bringing in the private sector could really get us a state-of-the-art facility.
SpongeG
Apr 2, 2007, 9:12 PM
HAs anyone got a map of the proposed location?
its right next to the train station near main and terminal
Smooth
Apr 2, 2007, 10:07 PM
HAs anyone got a map of the proposed location?
I believe this is the site being considered.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m20/carsenchant/VGHSite.jpg
twoNeurons
Apr 2, 2007, 10:24 PM
I figured that's the location... but is it the whole site? Given that the population is moving slowly eastward, the move to False Creek Flats does seem a logical choice.
Hed Kandi
Apr 2, 2007, 10:35 PM
I figured that's the location... but is it the whole site? Given that the population is moving slowly eastward, the move to False Creek Flats does seem a logical choice.
Downtown is for prime commercial and residential space, not a hospital. I think that this is a very smart move.
Also, it reduces the noise polution of ambulances from downtown!
mr.x
Apr 2, 2007, 10:42 PM
^ yea but still, Downtown is home to what is now approaching to 100,000 residents. wouldn't you think it needs its own hospital like how it needs its own elementary and secondary schools?
i support a new False Creek Flats hospital, but i still think we need a downtown hospital. Perhaps they could downsize St. Paul's but still keep some emergency wards, etc. instead of turning it into just a clinic and the new Flats hospital could be built smaller and they could leave room for future expansion.
EastVanMark
Apr 2, 2007, 11:09 PM
^ yea but still, Downtown is home to what is now approaching to 100,000 residents. wouldn't you think it needs its own hospital like how it needs its own elementary and secondary schools?
i support a new False Creek Flats hospital, but i still think we need a downtown hospital. Perhaps they could downsize St. Paul's but still keep some emergency wards, etc. instead of turning it into just a clinic and the new Flats hospital could be built smaller and they could leave room for future expansion.
Well said. We definitely need a downtown hospital.(Even a scaled down version). Too many senior residents in the west side who rely on that hospital being walking distance from their homes. A new hospital on the flats is not a practical distance for them. 2 facilities would service the region as a whole better. And more room can be added to the flats hospital as that area of town becomes more developed.
Canadian Mind
Apr 2, 2007, 11:22 PM
build the new flats hospital, close down St. Pauls, and build a tower with the lower 3-4 stories as a dedicated clinic. Might not be the simplest solution, but you could get whomever develops the land to pay for a really nice clinic as their ammenity providing gig, the more the pay to build the building, the more density they get.
murman
Apr 2, 2007, 11:51 PM
Downtown is for prime commercial and residential space, not a hospital. I think that this is a very smart move.
Also, it reduces the noise polution of ambulances from downtown!
As a new resident of CityGate, I might have something to say in that regard.
squeezied
Apr 3, 2007, 12:16 AM
i like the idea of a new hospital, but i do share the sentiments of others that we do need a downtown hospital
raggedy13
Apr 3, 2007, 12:46 AM
I would vote for a combination between mr.x2's and canadian mind's ideas. Keep a downsized hospital at the site that could perhaps be renovated/updated/etc by the future developer of the site as an amenity which could then go towards bonus density for whatever new development goes in (hopefully something with an office component or at least something non-residential).
hollywoodnorth
Apr 3, 2007, 5:49 AM
As a new resident of CityGate, I might have something to say in that regard.
!NIMBY ALERT!
!NIMBY ALERT!
murman
Apr 3, 2007, 3:34 PM
!NIMBY ALERT!
!NIMBY ALERT!
:haha: :tup:
Area news,
Prebid
Coquitlam
12 Story Office tower with retail at base, corner of Glen Dr and High St
Port Moody
26 Story Condo tower with 3 level U/G parking 300 Capilano Rd.
27 Story Condo tower with 3 level U/G parking 2025 St Johns.
Surrey
18 story Condo tower 15399 Guildford.
New West
28 Story Condo tower built onto of Zellers with additional floor of retail at 8th and 6th, currently on hold pending owners decision to advance.
Vancouver
New Hospital on False creek Flats V6A, in conceputal stage business plan under development, annoucement scheduled for Nov/07.
It's looking like the hospital will be a go, it's just a matter of finding a way to close St Pauls w/o too much fanfare.
Erm, just wondering if you guys just saw the news re. the plans for the hospital posted in the main Vancouver thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=2745772&posted=1#post2745772) (see above)
What I would like to see is a "offshoot" mini skytrain right into the new hospital from Main Street station...wonder if this is possible.
What I would like to see is a "offshoot" mini skytrain right into the new hospital from Main Street station...wonder if this is possible.
but why?
SpongeG
Apr 6, 2007, 2:02 AM
because people will find it too hard to walk the block or two?
because people will find it too hard to walk the block or two?
how many people actually go to the hospital via transit? maybe workers, but that's a very small portion. if you're a patient, get a ride or take the taxi.
and yes, it's two blocks.
SpongeG
Apr 6, 2007, 3:00 AM
i was being sarcastic
hehe
East Van
Apr 6, 2007, 5:10 AM
Wasnt there mention of a new road network being built in the False Creek flats area, actually closer to Strathcona Park ? With the hospital moving there it would be necessary.
i was being sarcastic
hehe
oh, okay lol. sorry. :p
SpongeG
Apr 8, 2007, 7:38 AM
i saw a plan somewhere once for that area - it showed where they had zoned for car dealerships, roads and buildings etc. i wish i remember where i saw it
Pinion
Oct 8, 2007, 10:19 AM
I was born in St. Paul's so of course would be sad to see it go (always been fun to think "I was born right there" while driving through the heart of Vancouver), but a Main/Terminalish hospital wouldn't be so bad.
Nutterbug
Oct 8, 2007, 1:38 PM
Keep the downtown campus for the basic essentials (emergency facilities, etc.).
Rusty Gull
Oct 8, 2007, 4:09 PM
What I would like to see is a "offshoot" mini skytrain right into the new hospital from Main Street station...wonder if this is possible.
More economically, they could build one of those moving walkways that are so popular at major airports these days. That would make the walk more manageable for those who are mobility-challenged --
And no, not all of them can drive or get a ride to the hospital.
Rusty Gull
Oct 8, 2007, 4:28 PM
I tend to disagree with those who feel that West End residents need their own hospital. Afterall, a hospital is not a neighbourhood amenity or privilege. They tend to be institutions that serve an entire city.
And with that being said, Vancouver General is only a five minute drive from downtown Vancouver -- while UBC Hospital and Lions Gate Hospitals are roughly 15-20 minutes from downtown. So this is an area that is very well served already.
The False Creek Flats location, in my opinion, makes good sense -- and could be the catalyst for like-minded industries to set up close to it (ie biotech, pharmaceutical, medical clinics, seniors care, etc).
SpongeG
Oct 10, 2007, 9:16 PM
Even if St. Paul's moves, care centre would stay
Dianne Doyle says area would 'continue to need . . . some services delivered from this site'
John Bermingham
The Province
Wednesday, October 10, 2007
VANCOUVER - The head of St. Paul's Hospital says that even if it moves to False Creek, there will be some kind of care centre left on the existing Burrard site.
"Our belief is that there would continue to need to be some services delivered from this site," Dianne Doyle, president of Providence Healthcare, told The Province yesterday.
"[It's] unlikely that it will be anything that requires any of the duplication of the services that we might build on a new site." Doyle said she would prefer to rebuild the 133-year-old St. Paul's on a new site at Station and Prior streets.
"You can build faster, you can get the kind of design that you want and the costs are cheaper," she said.
Doyle said she wants an urgent-care centre, with services for seniors, people with HIV/AIDS and drug users built at the current site at Burrard and Comox streets.
"That is a vision that we would be taking forward," she said. "It is at the discussion stage." B.C. Health Minister George Abbott, appearing at the opening of a $1.2-million, fast-track emergency room at St. Paul's, said Providence and Vancouver Coastal have still to work out what kind of care remains at the Burrard site.
"There would be questions about whether this site should have some emergency facilities," he said. "I don't think it's something that's going to happen quickly. We're probably talking a project that would be a billion dollars plus." Abbott said the new fast-track facility will deal with minor injuries in under two hours, with dedicated rooms for infants and kids, eye, ear, nose, throat and gynecology.
Abbott said a 22-year-old soccer player can be treated and discharged quicker than a senior who may have had a stroke.
"It frees up the emergency personnel to spend more time with the people who one suspects may have those kinds of issues," he said.
St. Paul's has already reduced its overall emergency wait times 22 per cent, to a maximum of 12 hours, two hours short of its target of 10.
Aaron Jasper, chair of the Save St. Paul's Coalition, wants a fully staffed emergency room left at the current site of St. Paul's for the downtown core's 90,000 residents.
"We need a full emergency ward in the downtown core, not just an urgent-care centre," said Jasper. "Those essential services need to stay." jbermingham@png.canwest.com
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=6932d488-fa2e-4ca7-bbac-24a033365d77
twoNeurons
Oct 10, 2007, 10:03 PM
12 HOURS WAIT TIME!!!!!
So... if making a new hospital will shave wait times by a few hours, by making things more efficient, then why would anyone care if it's an extra few minutes by taxi or ambulance or car or even BUS!
12 hours is ridiculous! Putting things in perspective, the New St. Paul's will have shorter wait times and BETTER service.
mr.x
Oct 11, 2007, 4:56 AM
wtf???? a 12 hour wait time?
Please get it out of the downtown. That way I can go a whole night without being woken up by 120 decibel sirens from their ambulances. One Sunday morning I counted 7 times between 3 AM and 8 AM...
The number of times Burrard Street is EMPTY and they still use the siren infuriates me. In parts of the US, they are restricted to 55 decibels in residential areas, not here.
doolydooly
Nov 13, 2007, 12:32 PM
double post
doolydooly
Nov 13, 2007, 12:38 PM
Please get it out of the downtown. That way I can go a whole night without being woken up by 120 decibel sirens from their ambulances. One Sunday morning I counted 7 times between 3 AM and 8 AM...
The number of times Burrard Street is EMPTY and they still use the siren infuriates me. In parts of the US, they are restricted to 55 decibels in residential areas, not here.
i live literally across the street from VGH emergency and have sirens AND helicopters coming and going at all hours, but i don't think either have woke me up.
correct placement of the hospital should matter more than potentially annoying people with sirens, etc. even with the false creek location what about all the existing condos in the area, and potential new ones being developed?
there will always be people living near hospitals no matter where you locate them, so don't base hospital placement on that.
twoNeurons
Nov 13, 2007, 4:36 PM
Please get it out of the downtown. That way I can go a whole night without being woken up by 120 decibel sirens from their ambulances. One Sunday morning I counted 7 times between 3 AM and 8 AM...
The number of times Burrard Street is EMPTY and they still use the siren infuriates me. In parts of the US, they are restricted to 55 decibels in residential areas, not here.
So... when you chose the place, did you fail to notice the hospital? :haha:
Just teasin' ya man...
So... when you chose the place, did you fail to notice the hospital? :haha:
Just teasin' ya man...
Good point! I agree. I've been there for over 2 years. However, the last few months have seen what seems like an exponential increase in night-time siren noise.
EastVanMark
Nov 14, 2007, 2:06 AM
Please get it out of the downtown. That way I can go a whole night without being woken up by 120 decibel sirens from their ambulances. One Sunday morning I counted 7 times between 3 AM and 8 AM...
The number of times Burrard Street is EMPTY and they still use the siren infuriates me. In parts of the US, they are restricted to 55 decibels in residential areas, not here.
Aren't there better things to do between the hours of 3 and 8 AM other than standing, sitting, or lying there with a decibel meter in hand counting the number of times one hears sirens? :haha: :haha:
twoNeurons
Nov 14, 2007, 5:17 PM
^^^ What?! I couldn't hear you, could you repeat that?
zilfondel
Nov 15, 2007, 3:37 AM
Wow, even Portland has 3 major hospitals ringed around its downtown, which only has about 40-50,000 residents in those neighborhoods. Luckily, none of them are going to move...
The issue you guys face sounds a bit like what a smaller town in Oregon faced (Eugene) - a hospital in downtown wanted more land to expand, and ended up building in a flood plain. Interestingly, they kept open their old hospital - even though they said they'd close it, and a third hospital from another company was built. So a city of 150,000 ended up with 3 hospitals... 2 of them are about 5 miles from downtown on the very fringe.
mr.x
Nov 15, 2007, 4:07 AM
Wow, even Portland has 3 major hospitals ringed around its downtown, which only has about 40-50,000 residents in those neighborhoods. Luckily, none of them are going to move...
The issue you guys face sounds a bit like what a smaller town in Oregon faced (Eugene) - a hospital in downtown wanted more land to expand, and ended up building in a flood plain. Interestingly, they kept open their old hospital - even though they said they'd close it, and a third hospital from another company was built. So a city of 150,000 ended up with 3 hospitals... 2 of them are about 5 miles from downtown on the very fringe.
They aren't planning to entirely close the old hospital, some hospital services will still be maintained and it'll likely remain as an Urgent Care Centre (large medical clinic for minor treatments and special operations) as well as an AIDS/HIV centre.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8391/82111541tv0.png
SpongeG
Nov 15, 2007, 4:29 AM
hospitals in the states are private though aren't they?
i am sure if we could have private run/owned hospitals in BC there would be a lot more
vanhattan
Nov 19, 2007, 5:34 AM
hospitals in the states are private though aren't they?
i am sure if we could have private run/owned hospitals in BC there would be a lot more
You are correct in that nearly all hospitals in the USA are private, with one huge exception and that is the US Department of Veteran Affairs Hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, etc. There are also city run hospitals in some of the larger cities.
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