Atlanta Project Thread III

[Behind_Phips]

Architecture Maybe...Cheap Not!!!

I too think the architecture is a little suspect. However, this is not a cheap development. Plans call for 800,000 feet of space. Ben Carter has been quoted saying the cost has risen to $1.2 Billion. That equates to roughly $1,500 a square foot. That makes this development the most expensive development (on a square foot basis) this city has ever seen, now and probably my lifetime. So it makes perfect sense to critique the architecture, but please don't say it is CHEAP!!! I think Ben Carter deserves a little respect for removing the eyesore from Buckhead Village.

[sabino86]

a pleasure indeed! thanks for sharing. oh yeah, and what are you doing at that location at 2am? i only wish i could have been there too!

Yeah, how exactly DID you get there at 2 AM? ;)

Whatever the case, awesome pics!

[SAV]

what would i have hoped for? IMHO a series of 8-10 story buildings would work better. a LEED certified development would seem to be relevant and timely. in terms of a general look, feel, scale, selection of materials and relationship to the street, how about this:

this is the westin in dc, like many buildings in dc, there is a great relationship to the street, the materials are solid and there is no doubt about it being upscale. on the other hand, ben carters model looks like a high rise mall of georgia - i'm afraid that's what your getting folks.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/ATL2PHX/washingtondcwestin.jpg

this building doesn't look all that exciting either...........

[SAV]

And can somebody get me a picture of Mall of Georgia for I can compare cause I don't see MALL of anything when I look at the rendering

[ThrashATL]

And can somebody get me a picture of Mall of Georgia for I can compare cause I don't see MALL of anything when I look at the rendering

http://www.peachstateinc.com/NewPhotos/MallofGa050803CD10.jpg
Big, brutish bastard isn't it?

[smArTaLlone]

Architecture Maybe...Cheap Not!!!

I too think the architecture is a little suspect. However, this is not a cheap development. Plans call for 800,000 feet of space. Ben Carter has been quoted saying the cost has risen to $1.2 Billion. That equates to roughly $1,500 a square foot. That makes this development the most expensive development (on a square foot basis) this city has ever seen, now and probably my lifetime. So it makes perfect sense to critique the architecture, but please don't say it is CHEAP!!! I think Ben Carter deserves a little respect for removing the eyesore from Buckhead Village.

I tend to agree. Comparing this to Mall of Ga and Atlantic Station is just a bit of overreaction and a Buckhead shopping district is probably not the best place to look for cutting edge architecture.

The way the towers are set back with the two and three story facades will give a nice pedestrian scale to the area. The quality of materials and finishes that one would expect in a high-end district is difficult to see in a model like this. The one thing I don't like is the large blank walls on the sides of the towers but overall, I think its potentially very nice.

[Chris Creech]

I almost hate to say this, cause it just indicates how low my expectations have become. However, I find myself wanting more and more of an emphasis on materials and finishes than architecture. I wouldn't mind so much uninspiring or lazy traditional architecture maybe so much if it used real brick, stone work, had a lot of nice detailing and presented a really nice feeling of permanence and quality, actually felt like something that was built to be there for generations to come.

I'd much rather see well executed uninspired artchitecture than inspired cheaply built stunt architecture and stage fronts on the street.

In a perfect world though we'd be seeing more of both, inspiring architecture and great executions, especially in some of these "blockbuster" developments that purport to be reshaping the city.

I neve trust renderings anymore, they're too easy to fudge on and always gloss over problem areas and details.

[ThrashATL]

I think people are skeptical of Buckhead Avenues mainly because of the sad debacle of architecture/finishes known as Atlantic Station. They lowered the bar on mixed use development.

[dirtybird]

I think people are skeptical of Buckhead Avenues mainly because of the sad debacle of architecture/finishes known as Atlantic Station. They lowered the bar on mixed use development.

In a more cynical view, I think a lot of people (including myself) had high hopes for Atlantic Station; we were disappointed with AS because it turned out to be typical Atlantan mediocrity, not necessarily lowering the bar.

[Andrea]

I'd much rather see well executed uninspired artchitecture than inspired cheaply built stunt architecture and stage fronts on the street.

Chris, unless something major changes it's definitely not going to be cheaply built.

[micropundit]

Published on: 07/23/07

If the redevelopment plans for Fort McPherson are realized, Atlanta will have another city within a city — creating a new urban center on the southern edge of the city limits.

That new city — on 488 acres sandwiched between two MARTA stations — would be more than three times larger than the transformative Atlantic Station development in Midtown.

Plans for Fort McPherson's redevelopment call for 180 acres of new park land (virtually the same size as Piedmont Park), complete with a 30-acre site designed for festivals and events.

Planners also envision 4,600 new residential units, 4 million square feet of office space, including a major research and development complex, as well as 400,000 square feet of commercial and retail space.

It's a dramatic vision for a hidden jewel with some of the most beautiful tracts in the city. This is pristine property with wide open spaces, old growth trees, historic buildings and first-class amenities, such as a prestigious club house, a pool, tennis courts and a basketball court.

And yet, these 488 acres have been surrounded by walls and barbed-wire fences separating this enclave from its neighbors and the community. In short, it has been off limits to the general public for decades. But that is slated to change.

Fort McPherson, a fixture in Atlanta since May 1889, is scheduled to close in 2011. The Fort McPherson Planning Local Redevelopment Authority has been convening for nearly two years to plan the future of the base once the military vacates the property.

"It will be one of the coolest places to live in Atlanta," says Jack Sprott, the authority's executive director, while showing off the fort's special landmarks on a tour last week. The authority plans to approve the redevelopment plans at its next meeting in August and then submit its proposal to the Army and the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development on Sept. 20. The Army then has a month to weigh in on those plans before they are put in motion.

At a meeting last week, the authority worked through a couple of sensitive issues: the number of residences that will be provided for the formerly homeless and the setting aside of up to 30 acres for a major new festival space for the city.

The federal government requires that the authority must provide places for the homeless to live. Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin and others had asked for up to 454 units, but there was a concern that a concentration of low-income residents would discourage private developers from buying and redeveloping the fort.

So a compromise was reached to provide 314 units that could house up to 547 formerly homeless individuals and families on the property.There was much more enthusiasm for new festival and event space that would be located on a plateau that is now part of the fort's golf course and less than a 10-minute walk from the Lakewood/Fort McPherson MARTA station and not much further from the Oakland City MARTA station.

Dianne Harnell Cohen, Atlanta's commissioner of Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs, couldn't be more pleased about the prospect of an attractive new spot for festivals.

"We don't have enough festival green space," Cohen says, adding that Piedmont Park can't absorb any major new festivals, yet there is a growing demand for more outdoor events. "This would allow us to take on some ongoing events. It's really exciting."

The event space would be part of a green expanse that creates a wide crescent in the middle of the 488 acres. Plans call for creating several new lakes as well as "day lighting" streams that have been buried to flow through underground pipes. Those streams then would become another major selling feature for the fort's new residents.

According to Sprott, the land-use plan will serve as a base for the rezoning of the property. It is expected the property would have quality-of-life zoning guidelines encouraging mixed-use development that promotes pedestrian mobility and a live-work-play community.

Many steps need to happen before these plans become a reality.

Once the plans are approved by the federal government, a Fort McPherson Implementation Redevelopment Authority would be created with the power to issue bonds. That authority likely would include officials from the state, the cities of Atlanta and East Point as well as private citizens and business leaders.

Then that authority would work with the Army on the sale and redevelopment of the fort. The state has expressed interest in helping develop a technology research and development complex on the site.

The ownership of the green space and public areas likely would be transferred to local governments. It is expected that a tax allocation district would be established to help those governments pay for infrastructure improvements and the area's public amenities.

But it will be the interest of private developers that ultimately will determine the project's success.

"Probably the largest portion of the property would be sold from the Army directly to a developer," Sprott says. "The Army wants to sell as much as it can for as high an amount as it can."

A key issue is whether the Army will sell to a developer that will pay the most or whether the Army will sell to a developer who plans to build the best project for the community.

A unique opportunity exists to create a special new city within our city. Let's hope all the players will pledge to build as beautiful a new city as they can.

[ATLaffinity]

My "sources" say the Hotel Palomar people (KKA) are still looking for money.

I wouldn't bet on that ever happening. I hope I'm wrong.

I love the idea of having Kimpton in ATL.

I never thought much of the building from the rendering

http://www.hotelpalomar-atlanta.com/

[micropundit]

My "sources" say the Hotel Palomar people (KKA) are still looking for money.

I wouldn't bet on that ever happening. I hope I'm wrong.

I love the idea of having Kimpton in ATL.

I never thought much of the building from the rendering

http://www.hotelpalomar-atlanta.com/

Interesting. I believe that Kimpton is interested in Atlanta enough to seek other sites such as The "Streets of Buckhead" and the Centennial Park area.

[RobMidtowner]

:previous:
That's too bad if it's true especially considering they already demolished the existing building. Although, given the location, maybe this could make way for another hotel, condo, or apartment development.

[jobe]

I never thought much of the building from the rendering

http://www.hotelpalomar-atlanta.com/

I never thought anything of it until you mentioned it but you're right; it's not the best looking building. Contemporary, yet boring. Looks like the Swissotel in Buckhead.

[ATLaffinity]

i'm not sure if it's doomed. it's just not good that the financing isn't finalized.

honestly, i'd take the building and the halo effect of Kimpton despite the design.

i live nearby and this area desperately needs the street level to be "activated".

strangely, it's been shadier ever since Publix/Plaza Midtown. Maybe b/c they've managed to open like a store a year at that place.

[RobMidtowner]

I agree that this area needs more projects like this and that Plaza Midtown has slowly opened its retail. But the reason they've opened slowly is because of issues dealing with the city, not because the area is shady.

[ATLskyline]

The Novare site, which is 13 acres was purchased in February for $70,000,000. Are they planning on including the existing office building in their plans or leveling it?

Here is what the DRI Novare submitted for their new perimeter site. so it looks like they will keep the existing office building, as well as build two or three new towers on the site depending on how tall novare wants to go.

Mixed-used development consisting of approximately: High rise (900 d.u.); Hotel (150 rooms); Office space (350,000 sf); Retail (33,000 sf); Restaurant (6,000 sf); The existing 240,000 sf office building will remain.

[sabino86]

GSU dorm brings youthful vibe to downtown

By KEVIN DUFFY
Published on: 07/25/07

University Commons, Georgia State University's enormous new dorm at 141 Piedmont Ave., is jaw-dropping in so many ways.

After six years of planning and construction, the building is about to open to 1,992 students who will live downtown. The official ribbon-cutting for the $165 million project takes place Aug. 10, and five days later the move-ins begin.

VAST PROJECT
• The amount of cable built into the bones of the dormitory would stretch to Jacksonville.

• If you had a dollar for every screw used in the building, you'd be a millionaire more than five times over.

• 3,500 windows provide views of the downtown scene.

• Georgia State economics professor Bruce Seaman said residents of the Commons might spend $10 million to $12 million a year, with much of that money staying downtown.

POPULATION EXPLOSION
The Commons residents will join another 449 GSU students who live at The Lofts, the metal-clad residential building on Edgewood Avenue. GSU eventually wants to house 20 percent of its students near its classrooms. Enrollment is expected to grow to 33,000 by 2013, so eventually more than 6,000 students could be living downtown.

CHANGING NEIGHBORHOOD
"We've never had this amount of students being plopped down right in downtown Atlanta, or on the Georgia State campus, in history. We have a really good feeling about it. I think it's going to change the whole eastern side of the Peachtree [Street] corridor."

— A.J. Robinson, president of Central Atlanta Progress

WOW!
Here's an idea of how big the dorm is:

• 5.3 million: Number of screws in dorm

• 352: Miles of post-tension cable

• 650: Miles of wire

• 18,000: Switches and outlets

• 3,877: Tons of steel, equal to 1,400 Ford Expeditions

• 103: Seconds to walk the length of the building along John Wesley Dobbs Avenue

• 52,000: Gallons of drywall mud used — enough to cover 78 football fields

[boomtown]

Street trees are very urban. What do you mean "eat the street?" Peachtree is a good 100 feet wide in that area. The trees, even in perfect conditions, would never cover it.

I just noticed your comment Terminus - A friend recently pointed out to me that some species of street trees (especially willow oaks) turn into green blobs- masking the buildings. I have to say that I agree with him on willow oaks, but on the other hand love the trees around the Federal Reserve Building because they have a beautiful branch habit and add alot to that block.

[SwimAtl]

boom - those awesome trees at the Fed Reserve Bank are Chinese Elms. Part of the reason they look so nice is that they were 'selectively pruned' when they were young and continue to be pruned on a regular basis. it would be surprising imo the difference it would make if more street trees were well pruned.

[ATLskyline]

it is not that siginifcant but tower 2 now only lists 475 homes or a 42 unit decrease from the first tower. It also might just mean the demand for 2 and/or 3 bedroom condos was higher than they expected for tower 1 so they are making adjustments to meet the demand in tower 2. It also says they are starting construction on the second this summer.

992 condominium homes
517 homes in Phase I
475 homes in Phase II
136-room TWELVE Hotel
The amenities for which Novare communities are noted
5,000 sq ft of restaurant/bar space
10,000 sq ft of office space
15,000 sq ft of retail space
Phase I opens August 2007
Hotel opens September 2007
On-site restaurant, ROOM, created by chef Bob Amick and Concentrics Hospitality opens September 2007
Phase II construction expected to begin summer 2007

[atl2phx]

it is not that siginifcant but tower 2 now only lists 475 homes or a 42 unit decrease from the first tower. It also might just mean the demand for 2 and/or 3 bedroom condos was higher than they expected for tower 1 so they are making adjustments to meet the demand in tower 2. It also says they are starting construction on the second this summer.

992 condominium homes
517 homes in Phase I
475 homes in Phase II
136-room TWELVE Hotel
The amenities for which Novare communities are noted
5,000 sq ft of restaurant/bar space
10,000 sq ft of office space
15,000 sq ft of retail space
Phase I opens August 2007
Hotel opens September 2007
On-site restaurant, ROOM, created by chef Bob Amick and Concentrics Hospitality opens September 2007
Phase II construction expected to begin summer 2007

if i recall correctly, i believe they added to the original room count of TWELVE - in doing so, im assuming they picked up space from the lower levels of the north tower which was originally slated for homes - therefore dropping the number of homes in the north tower.

[smArTaLlone]

ADA/CAP map of Downtown projects (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/CAPMaps/Development%20Map%20&%20Table%206.21.07.pdf)

including some that are news to me.

Halo Hotel - boutique hotel in the Medical Arts Building

Flatiron Hotel - boutique hotel in Flatiron building

Alexan 360° - 592 unit urban apartments

[trainiac]

ADA/CAP map of Downtown projects (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/CAPMaps/Development%20Map%20&%20Table%206.21.07.pdf)

including some that are news to me.

Halo Hotel - boutique hotel in the Medical Arts Building

This is awesome news! Thanks for the link... it says this is $40 million to be finished in 2009. I think a project in that building is critical to connect Peachtree Street and Allen Plaza/Centennial Hill.


Alexan 360° - 592 unit urban apartments
Looks like this one could block alot of Tribute Lofts views but would have permanently clear views itself.

Thanks again for sharing

[ATLskyline]

a DRI was submitted a few days ago for a project on Perimeter Center East

A mixed-use project consisting of a 23-story residential building consisting of 330 units and a 12-story hotel consisting of 240 rooms with an accessory 8,000sf restaurant.

[ATLssMania]

Twelve Centennial Park

Did anyone happen to see Twelve CP last night? They had the complete spire lit in a purple and blue light. It looked great. Maybe someone close can snap a picture for us.

[gttx]

Twelve Centennial Park

Did anyone happen to see Twelve CP last night? They had the complete spire lit in a purple and blue light. It looked great. Maybe someone close can snap a picture for us.

I'm looking at it right now from my window. They still don't have the very top lit up.

[Harry Cane]

Twelve Centennial Park

Did anyone happen to see Twelve CP last night? They had the complete spire lit in a purple and blue light. It looked great. Maybe someone close can snap a picture for us.

Actually you can look at the construction cam and see it. They started playing with the colors about a week ago with blueish-purplish.

Getting the light to the top is going to be tricky.

[Harry Cane]

3630—Site prep is going full throttle. I noticed the pics on the window only show one tower. I can’t remember if it showed two previously (I think it did) and whether that’s a change.

St. Regis—You really can’t notice from the street from all the fencing, but foundation has really moved along and it looks like it’s about to start coming street level.

Buckhead Streets or Avenues—wondered around the old village for a bit. Amazing how deserted it was. One place was still open but it had a banner that it was their last weekend. Several rezoning notices posted, but they were pretty old. It’s really going to be exciting to see this area change. I’m still having a hard time visualizing the boundaries. Incidentally, there’s a nice little article in Intown about the development. Apparently, the demolition is going to be in spurts, with some businesses moving in temporarily to the space next to Mitchell Gold. I guess that’ll go too, eventually.

Mezzo—this is up about 13 floors already!


The other thing that totally blew me away was the area on Peachtree Battle between P’tree and ADAC. All those old 50’s-60’s era apartment buildings are fenced off and about to be demolished to make way for a new development. The area is huge! They had a drawing on the sign, but couldn’t make too much of it. What I did see wasn’t too thrilling-more brick and stucco lowrises.

[shanthemanatl]

Actually you can look at the construction cam and see it. They started playing with the colors about a week ago with blueish-purplish.

Getting the light to the top is going to be tricky.

I saw it Saturday night. It would look really nice if it ran all the way down the spine of the building.

[CityFan]

It's would be nice, but it costs a lot.

[smArTaLlone]

Link to a HUGE W Midtown rendering
w (http://www.nobleinvestment.com//Noble/NobleAssets/images/main/w-hotel-midtown---aerial---.jpg)

[john3eblover]

wait, i thought that the W midtown was just the Colony Square building....where is this being built? And by the way it looks hideous.

[atlantaguy]

^John, you're right. It's a massive gut & rehab of the Sheraton Colony Square.

[KevinAtl]

W Midtown Rooms
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/kevinatl/WMidtownBath2.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/kevinatl/WMidtownQueen12.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/kevinatl/WMidtownKing1.jpg

[Atlriser]

I think it's a nice use of the bones of the existing building and an improvement over what exists today. I like the lighting bands. Personally I think it will be nice.

[ThrashATL]

Link to a HUGE W Midtown rendering
w (http://www.nobleinvestment.com//Noble/NobleAssets/images/main/w-hotel-midtown---aerial---.jpg)

Looks like a hotel from SimCity.

[mayhem]

I did some photo updates today.

Viewpoint (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=2982637#post2982637)

1010 Peachtree (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=2982651#post2982651)

Aqua (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=2982656#post2982656)

A few extra's

Luxe
http://www.shadowlawrecordings.com/development/Luxe_073107_1.jpg

Palomar
http://www.shadowlawrecordings.com/development/Palomar_073107_1.jpg

Some awesome street presence down by Luxe
http://www.shadowlawrecordings.com/development/Awesome_Street_Presence.jpg

[gttx]

Such a sad picture of the Palomar.

Though the more I look at it the more convinced I am that I will need to procure that sign for myself.

[mayhem]

Such a sad picture of the Palomar.

Though the more I look at it the more convinced I am that I will need to procure that sign for myself.

That's what I thought when I snapped that one. Although, it is the old rendering with the condo's on top. Hopefully we'll see a new sign up and some sort of work on the site. Does anyone know if they have their building permit?

[Fiorenza]

3630 Peachtree grows in Atlanta (http://www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx?id=3420026D9CAD1FA7889FA31954D02DBB)

[jmcgoblue]

3630 Peachtree grows in Atlanta (http://www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx?id=3420026D9CAD1FA7889FA31954D02DBB)

y'know, I'm happy to see any 30+ story building go up...but that has to be one of the most uninspiring designs I've seen in a while. It looks 100% office park.

[Fiorenza]

The Buckhead Loop IS an office park!

[Andrea]

y'know, I'm happy to see any 30+ story building go up...but that has to be one of the most uninspiring designs I've seen in a while. It looks 100% office park.

Gee, I thought it was one of the better looking new office buildings in Atlanta. It's by Handel Architects in New York, who generally do pretty cool work.

http://handelarchitectsmaximilianonoguera.blogspot.com/

http://www.handelarchitects.com/main.html#1.0.0.0

[jmcgoblue]

Gee, I thought it was one of the better looking new office buildings in Atlanta. It's by Handel Architects in New York, who generally do pretty cool work.

http://handelarchitectsmaximilianonoguera.blogspot.com/

http://www.handelarchitects.com/main.html#1.0.0.0

Well, to each his (or her :) ) own. I guess I'm just bored of the all-glass facad buildings going up. And considering that 17 floors of the building consist of condos, I don't know that I'd call it an office tower. I can't imagin actually living in that building, I'd feel like I was living at work. In any case, I realize that I can't expect every tower going up in ATL to be an architectural masterpiece, so I'll just be content that another 30+ story building is going up & stop complaining :tup:

[scania]

y'know, I'm happy to see any 30+ story building go up...but that has to be one of the most uninspiring designs I've seen in a while. It looks 100% office park.

I totally disagree. This is one of my favorite towers going up. The rendering in person is even better. I was hoping this would be built at 10th and Peachtree in Midtown. It would've been a perfect location.

[Fiorenza]

Let's withhold judgement (positive or negative) until this thing goes up. I optimistically imagine it will look better than the rendering.

[Andrea]

Oh yeah, it is definitely subjective. Even good architects do bad work. This one just struck me as a cut above the usual stuff that Atlanta sees, but I certainly respect differing views.

And you're right, it's not purely office. I wonder if 18th century shopkeepers who lived above their stores realized they were in mixed-use developments?

[Atlriser]

3630 Peachtree

I think it's just the rendering doesn't do the building justice. This one is definitely sharp and a step above the typical office buildings in the area built over the past 10 years.

[MarketsWork]

I totally disagree. This is one of my favorite towers going up. The rendering in person is even better. I was hoping this would be built at 10th and Peachtree in Midtown. It would've been a perfect location.

I also like the building, but am glad it's not at 10th and Peachtree. As the lots around it fill in with beautiful buildings, Dewberry's block just gets more and more valuable even as its sits empty. Though he paid a relative pittance for it, that block might be the most valuable lot in Atlanta. When the market timing is right, it will be the perfect spot for a signature office tower -- so I hope Dewberry waits for the next office cycle.

[gttx]

When the market timing is right, it will be the perfect spot for a signature office tower -- so I hope Dewberry waits for the next office cycle.

I'm hoping he builds townhomes there. Preferably like the Beazer ones in Atlantic Station. Oh, and a huge parking deck that's bigger than them, with kitchy lights creating a bold, concrete centerpiece. They would be built all around a central park area (where walking on the grass is off-limits!), and open onto it. The back and service entrances would face Peachtree and 10th. Hopefully we'll see something about this new plan in the near future.

[KevinAtl]

lmao gttx

[Tombstoner]

I'm hoping he builds townhomes there. Preferably like the Beazer ones in Atlantic Station. Oh, and a huge parking deck that's bigger than them, with kitchy lights creating a bold, concrete centerpiece. They would be built all around a central park area (where walking on the grass is off-limits!), and open onto it. The back and service entrances would face Peachtree and 10th. Hopefully we'll see something about this new plan in the near future.

It's clear that you don't appreciate that rare breed of brave and artistically-inspired visionaries known as "developers." They would never do anything like that!!! Never!!! They are self-made men who put everything on the line, everyday asking only for a little appreciation (and maybe a few million in kickbacks, under-the-table deals and good 'ol boy mutual favors--but hey, haven't they earned it [using other people's money, but don't change the subject]?). Truly, would Atlanta be the urban mecca it is without them???

Now I'm not talking about those couple sissy developers who have gone all green and are thinking about Atlanta's future. Phooey! I mean those real red-meat titans who understand money and how to make it. I hope you aren't inpugning that honorable profession, are you?

[Teshadoh]

Clearly the market dictates that a shopping center should be built at 10th & Peachtree. Most likely a revisionist 'new-suburban strip' style that is in the style of the classic '60's strip center that is common on Buford Hwy. My only concern is that there is enough space for a parking lot - perhaps purchasing the neighboring city block to the east that stretches to Piedmont Park will be necessary. That way there will be ample parking for everyone & a parking deck won't be necessary in the park! :)

[MarketsWork]

By all tongue-in-cheek definitions listed above, Dewberry should be hailed as a hero on this thread. He purchased 10th and Peachtree at a good price with his own money, and is sitting on it until the real estate market dictates something very special can be built on it. Sitting at such a key intersection, it's a better block than the neighboring 12 & Midtown assemblage -- though the Selig/Daniel development makes Dewberry's idle block scarcer and even more valuable. And Dewberry should be praised for his patience, as he has so far refused to be rushed into throwing up something less than his strategic block deserves. (Or perhaps we should just be thankful he has enough wealth that he can afford to be patient.) As the Midtown Mile builds out and key lots become scarce, 10th and Peachtree will be in position to see something very special -- but not in this demand cycle. So for as long as he can afford to wait, Dewberry is in the catbird seat. I'm hoping he can continue to wait...
:cheers:

[CityFan]

What if the city had a plan on his lot? LOL

[Andrea]

By all tongue-in-cheek definitions listed above, Dewberry should be hailed as a hero on this thread. He purchased 10th and Peachtree at a good price with his own money, and is sitting on it until the real estate market dictates something very special can be built on it. Sitting at such a key intersection, it's a better block than the neighboring 12 & Midtown assemblage -- though the Selig/Daniel development makes Dewberry's idle block scarcer and even more valuable. And Dewberry should be praised for his patience, as he has so far refused to be rushed into throwing up something less than his strategic block deserves.

I'm not sure I'd think of Dewberry's role as heroic, but it's certainly good business. He acquired the land for no more than you'd pay for a nice strip center in the burbs and no doubt it is still generating substantial rents. So carrying costs are probably not too bad. Since this is not exactly the ideal time to be leaping into the midtown office market, why not just chill for a few years and let your market value bubble up?

I wish I'd had the gumption to do something like that. Of course that's why I'm doomed to be a wage slave rather than a woman of leisure.

[ATLssMania]

I drove by the site of 12th&Midtown and they were demolished Club 112!!! This is great to see this project underway!

[jobe]

It's clear that you don't appreciate that rare breed of brave and artistically-inspired visionaries known as "developers." They would never do anything like that!!! Never!!! They are self-made men who put everything on the line, everyday asking only for a little appreciation (and maybe a few million in kickbacks, under-the-table deals and good 'ol boy mutual favors--but hey, haven't they earned it [using other people's money, but don't change the subject]?). Truly, would Atlanta be the urban mecca it is without them???

Now I'm not talking about those couple sissy developers who have gone all green and are thinking about Atlanta's future. Phooey! I mean those real red-meat titans who understand money and how to make it. I hope you aren't inpugning that honorable profession, are you?

The cynicism is incredible. Unlike you, I have incredible respect for anyone that goes out on their own to start a business; real estate or other. Re: using other people's money; isn't that why people are in business? To make money? Or are you in it for the self-enlightenment? If these developers are taking all the risk, why should they not make money when they provide something that people want? Curious if you work for yourself.

Maybe you were being sincere in your response and I misinterpreted. If that's the case, I apologize. But I suspect you're surly that there are people out there willing to put everything they have in jeopardy, in search of what they define as success.

[Atlriser]

Dewberry is doing the right thing. Hold the land for now. There's to much office space in the pipeline in midtown now and this lot should receive a building on the scale of BofA. Something much grandier then what he proposed 10 years ago, which at that time was considered fairly grand and forward thinking I'd like to remind everyone on the board. Today his plan is just average if you ask me and needs to be bolder but not in this current market cycle which has peaked in midtown at the moment.

[Tombstoner]

The cynicism is incredible. Unlike you, I have incredible respect for anyone that goes out on their own to start a business; real estate or other. Re: using other people's money; isn't that why people are in business? To make money? Or are you in it for the self-enlightenment? If these developers are taking all the risk, why should they not make money when they provide something that people want? Curious if you work for yourself.

Maybe you were being sincere in your response and I misinterpreted. If that's the case, I apologize. But I suspect you're surly that there are people out there willing to put everything they have in jeopardy, in search of what they define as success.

No, I was not being (entirely) sincere (or surly) and yes, I am incredibly cynical. :D
I do own my own company and know what it's like to put myself out there everyday. Many developers are often shrewd businesspeople, but let's be honest. These are--for the most part--not people driven by anything other than making a buck. Perhaps you'd say I'm just envious because they have a helluva lot more bucks than I do (and they do!), but I'd like to think I'm not quite that petty or simple-minded. I just get a bit annoyed when people confuse savvy money-making with being heroic or noble. I actually do alright for myself (thank you very much), but I don't think that makes me a morally superior person. I work hard, but then so do a lot of people that make a lot less (and a lot more). I don't think heroism found in seeking profits, it's found in putting oneself at risk for the benefit of others--your average developer doesn't do that (and neither do I except in very small, personal ways).

PS. you don't know what I respect or don't respect, so you might want to stick to things you know about (now, I'm being surly).

[gttx]

So for real....I'm picturing something on the scale of the BoA Tower in Houston, stepping down away from Peachtree along the drop on 10th St. The northern end of the block could be developed at the same time with other uses, or simply left undeveloped for future projects. The site is huge.

[Dragonheart8588]

No, I was not being (entirely) sincere (or surly) and yes, I am incredibly cynical. :D
I do own my own company and know what it's like to put myself out there everyday. Many developers are often shrewd businesspeople, but let's be honest. These are--for the most part--not people driven by anything other than making a buck. Perhaps you'd say I'm just envious because they have a helluva lot more bucks than I do (and they do!), but I'd like to think I'm not quite that petty or simple-minded. I just get a bit annoyed when people confuse savvy money-making with being heroic or noble. I actually do alright for myself (thank you very much), but I don't think that makes me a morally superior person. I work hard, but then so do a lot of people that make a lot less (and a lot more). I don't think heroism found in seeking profits, it's found in putting oneself at risk for the benefit of others--your average developer doesn't do that (and neither do I except in very small, personal ways).

PS. you don't know what I respect or don't respect, so you might want to stick to things you know about (now, I'm being surly).

I am completely agree with you about heroism. I don't think people are heroic because some of these developers put themselves out there. They put themselves out there so they can make millions and not help anyone else but themselves. (ok, maybe some benefits for some forumers on here on the psyche level) Beside that, only a few people actually benefit from those millions.

[jobe]

No, I was not being (entirely) sincere (or surly) and yes, I am incredibly cynical. :D
I do own my own company and know what it's like to put myself out there everyday. Many developers are often shrewd businesspeople, but let's be honest. These are--for the most part--not people driven by anything other than making a buck. Perhaps you'd say I'm just envious because they have a helluva lot more bucks than I do (and they do!), but I'd like to think I'm not quite that petty or simple-minded. I just get a bit annoyed when people confuse savvy money-making with being heroic or noble. I actually do alright for myself (thank you very much), but I don't think that makes me a morally superior person. I work hard, but then so do a lot of people that make a lot less (and a lot more). I don't think heroism found in seeking profits, it's found in putting oneself at risk for the benefit of others--your average developer doesn't do that (and neither do I except in very small, personal ways).

PS. you don't know what I respect or don't respect, so you might want to stick to things you know about (now, I'm being surly).

I'm not going to go tit-for-tat but will say this; i) I never used the word respect when I was referencing your post, so that's rather presumptuous, and ii) it is incredibly bold and narrow-minded of you to state that your average developer doesn't put themselves at risk for others, but then not define "average" or "risk". Of course, I'm sure if I asked you if Tom Cousins, Jim Borders, Hal Barry and Jim Jacoby were "average" developers, you would probably say no. So that begs the question; if you're going to make presumptuous, bold and narrow-minded blanket statements without providing facts (did you poll these "average developers" or research their philanthropic endeavors) or examples (did you see this many times, from many "average" (which was, again, never defined) developers); why make them at all? (And yes, that's rhetorical.).

That said; I do applaud you for starting your own company and having a go at it. So I do (here's that word...) respect you for that. I just hope nobody degrades you for trying to make money without speaking with you first.

[Tombstoner]

I'm not going to go tit-for-tat but will say this; i) I never used the word respect when I was referencing your post, so that's rather presumptuous, and ii) it is incredibly bold and narrow-minded of you to state that your average developer doesn't put themselves at risk for others, but then not define "average" or "risk". Of course, I'm sure if I asked you if Tom Cousins, Jim Borders, Hal Barry and Jim Jacoby were "average" developers, you would probably say no. So that begs the question; if you're going to make presumptuous, bold and narrow-minded blanket statements without providing facts (did you poll these "average developers" or research their philanthropic endeavors) or examples (did you see this many times, from many "average" (which was, again, never defined) developers); why make them at all? (And yes, that's rhetorical.).

That said; I do applaud you for starting your own company and having a go at it. So I do (here's that word...) respect you for that. I just hope nobody degrades you for trying to make money without speaking with you first.

You said "... Unlike you, I have incredible respect for anyone that goes out on their own to start a business..." so maybe you said "respect" but meant something else...

I stand by my statement that all these people you mention may be great businessmen, but they are not heroic because they are successful business. They may exhibit heroism in other aspects of their life, but not because they are developing property. That was not an empirical statement that needs to be supported by some poll (as you seem to assume)--it's an opinion based on what I think is a reasonable assumption (specifically, knowing how to make money doesn't mean you are morally superior). Maybe you don't know the difference (another distinct possibility since you apparently don't know the difference between a developer and a hero).

I don't deserve respect for starting a business...that's how I provide for my family. Not sure I really want your applause if you give it to anyone who makes a buck. I'm done.

[echinatl]

I'm eating a banana.

[SteveD]

that's a healthy choice. I'm eating pretzels (no salt).

[Atlriser]

I'm eating Sweet tarts....bad for me all around! WOW!

[john3eblover]

Pb&j!

[STrek777]

Just a cup of coffee for me.

[RobMidtowner]

Condos, hotel planned for prime Buckhead spot

By KEVIN DUFFY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/02/07
Condos and a stylish boutique hotel will be built in the center of Buckhead where partiers used to whoop it up into the wee hours of the morning.

Barry Hotel Partners and Ben Carter Properties on Friday will jointly announce plans to develop 1 Hotel & Residences, a brand that's new to Atlanta.

1 Hotel will be a two-tower structure with a spa in the middle. One tower will have 175 hotel rooms topped by 48 condos; the other tower will house 50 condos.

1 Hotel is the first announced building for The Streets of Buckhead, Carter's grand plan for transforming eight acres of Buckhead Village into one of the South's glitziest mixed-use districts.

Carter spent $210 million for 22 properties right smack in the middle of the vaunted party area, where bumper-to-bumper cruising used to be commonplace.

1 Hotel is the brainchild of Barry Sternlicht, who founded Starwood Hotels and now heads Starwood Capital Group Global LLC. Sternlicht came up with the hip W Hotel concept and the more mainstream Westin Heavenly Bed.

Atlanta is just the second 1 Hotel location. The first is under construction in Seattle.

1 Hotel will front Peachtree Road at Pharr Road, across from the Three Dollar Cafe; beneath it will be retail space and parking. Construction is expected to begin next summer and continue into 2010.

"It's one of those can't-miss locations," said Butch Ross, executive director of Barry Hotel Partners. "We're going to be sitting on 'Rodeo Drive' in the heart of Buckhead."

Barry also is developing Allen Plaza, a nine-block area downtown. Carter developed the Mall of Georgia in Buford and is shepherding The Streets of Buckhead's retail development.

The Streets of Buckhead eventually will have hundreds of condos and hotel rooms, plus office and retail space, according to Carter's plans.

1 Hotel is the first project Barry Hotel Partners has handled from the start. The division of Barry Real Estate Cos. was formed earlier this year, after Barry's W Hotel project at Allen Plaza was already under way.

"It was a missing link in Barry Real Estate's business model," CEO Chris Schoen said in a press release. "Barry Real Estate can now execute any portion of a mixed-use project, including hotels."

1 Hotel will be LEED certified, meaning it will have to meet certain "green" building standards.

Ross said design plans are incomplete, but "it will be an iconic building for the Southeast." The hotel/condo building is expected to be about 18 stories high, roughly the same size as the Ernst & Young building at Allen Plaza.

[RobMidtowner]

Hermès boutique lands on Streets of Buckhead
Atlanta Business Chronicle - August 3, 2007by Lisa R. SchoolcraftStaff writer

French luxury retailer Hermès is shutting down its ritzy Lenox Square shop and heading for The Streets of Buckhead, where it will more than double its space in a new boutique.

Hermès, which will go from 1,500 square feet at Lenox to 4,000 square feet at The Streets of Buckhead, will be on the corner of Boling Way and Buckhead Avenue, where Raccoon Lodge is currently, said Ben Carter, chairman of Ben Carter Properties Inc. and developer of The Streets of Buckhead. "How about that for a transition?" he said, laughing.


And here's a picture of the Trump Towers model in the sales center:
http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/92306-400-0.jpg?rev=2

[SteveD]

:previous: That Trump model looks sharp!. I'll take it! Let's get these puppies under construction!

[smArTaLlone]

So for real....I'm picturing something on the scale of the BoA Tower in Houston, stepping down away from Peachtree along the drop on 10th St. The northern end of the block could be developed at the same time with other uses, or simply left undeveloped for future projects. The site is huge.

Exactly. That site could hold 4 large towers easy. I'd hate to see it become a single giga-block development like the Midtown Square proposal.

1 Hotel will be LEED certified, meaning it will have to meet certain "green" building standards.

Ross said design plans are incomplete, but "it will be an iconic building for the Southeast."

Are they going to make some of us eat our words regarding Buckhead Village?

[smArTaLlone]

double post

[smArTaLlone]

By CATHERINE FOX
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/03/2007

Ben Carter thinks big.

The developer, who is remaking eight acres of Buckhead Village into a luxury mixed-use community, intends to enliven the new district with world-class art. And he hopes his effort is just the beginning of transforming Buckhead into an outdoor museum.

"World-class" is a much abused term. But the Atlanta native will show he's putting his money where his mouth is at today's groundbreaking ceremony, where he will unveil his first acquisition: "K.3" (2007), a $1 million wall sculpture by renowned artist Frank Stella.

Stella, a key figure in the development of minimalism in the 1960s, has spent his 45-year career pushing himself and the boundaries of art. "K.3," which explodes like a sprung watch into a colorful three-dimensional drawing of squiggles and geometric forms, exemplifies the hybrid habits chronicled in "Frank Stella: Painting Into Architecture," a recent exhibition at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. (The Met's "Frank Stella on the Roof" runs through October.)

Six months ago, Carter asked Sandler Hudson Gallery, which is co-owned by his sister-in-law Debbie Hudson, to guide him in selecting artists for "Art on the Streets," an art program with a $3 million budget.

"Ben asked us to put together a wish list of important artists not represented in Atlanta," co-owner Robin Sandler says.

In consultation with Stuart Horodner, curator at the Atlanta Contemporary Art Center, they compiled a notebook of 25 images from a dozen or so artists, from blue-chip modern masters like Isamu Noguchi to midcareer contemporary artists like Kiki Smith. (The High Museum owns eight works by Stella. None is a sculpture.)

Carter selected Stella and two midcareer artists, Nancy Rubins and Jonathan Borofsky, from that list. They will make pieces especially for the project.

Rubins has earned her reputation with dramatic large-scale sculptures made from salvaged industrial and consumer goods. Borofsky is best known for monumental metal silhouettes, frequently kinetic, like his famous "Hammering Man."

The three pieces, scheduled to debut with the opening of the first phase of the development in 2009, will each be sited in one of the 15 spots designated for art in the master plan. Carter plans to solicit corporate sponsors and individual donors for additional funding to fill up the remaining spots.

He adds, "This project has the potential to expand beyond The Streets of Buckhead [Carter's development]. It would tickle me to see other property owners do this, too."

[micropundit]

Got to the ground breaking for "The Streets of Buckhead" a little late but did see the models,renderings and the sculpture shown above: meh. the good news is that more shopping options are now availble for residents and visitirs; the not so good news is that if the sculpture is any indication of the overall arts flair of the project then .. well let's just say art is a subjective experience.

http://www.thestreetsofbuckhead.com/bcp.htm (URL="http://www.thestreetsofbuckhead.com/bcp.htm)"]

[smArTaLlone]

Hermès boutique lands on Streets of Buckhead
Atlanta Business Chronicle - August 3, 2007by Lisa R. SchoolcraftStaff writer

French luxury retailer Hermès is shutting down its ritzy Lenox Square shop and heading for The Streets of Buckhead, where it will more than double its space in a new boutique.

Hermès, which will go from 1,500 square feet at Lenox to 4,000 square feet at The Streets of Buckhead, will be on the corner of Boling Way and Buckhead Avenue, where Raccoon Lodge is currently, said Ben Carter, chairman of Ben Carter Properties Inc. and developer of The Streets of Buckhead. "How about that for a transition?" he said, laughing.


Here are the other committments announced so far...

AG Adriano Goldschmied - a men's and women's boutique featuring vintage-inspired apparel. Currently has 10 stores with the most recent openings in San Francisco and Beverly Hills.

Bottega del Vino - A white-tablecloth restaurant featuring northern Italian cuisine. This will be the third location with the others being in Verona, Italy and NY at Fifth Avenue and 59th.

La Goulue - a French bistro with a location at 746 Madison Ave. in NY.

[micropundit]

The Streets of Buckhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atlanta Business Chronicle - 11:25 AM EDT Friday, August 3, 2007by Lisa R. SchoolcraftStaff Writer

Atlanta developer Ben Carter officially kicked off his $1.2 billion The Streets of Buckhead project this morning, thanking the more than 34 Buckhead Village property owners that "gave up their prized assets" to help make his dream a reality.

The Streets of Buckhead, made up of office, retail, residential, and restaurant space over seven city blocks on 8 acres, will also feature the first 1 Hotel & Residences, a brand of Starwood Capital Group.

Barry Hotel Partners, a division of Barry Real Estate Cos., and Starwood Capital, will develop the 175-key five-star hotel at the corner of Peachtree and Pharr roads. The hotel, which features eco-friendly components, is expected to begin construction in mid-2008 and open in 2010. It will also have 100 condominium units on top.

The Streets of Buckhead will also be home to the 100-key Paces Plaza Hotel and Residences, said Carter, chairman and CEO of Ben Carter Properties LLC. The five-star boutique hotel will have 40 condo units on top, he said this morning. Paces Plaza will have a restaurant fronting Peachtree Road, as well as another restaurant and bar, spa and meeting rooms.

Two more hotels are also planned in the massive project, being buit by Balfour Beatty Construction.

When it comes to retail, Carter envisions luxury, fashion forward, and what he likes to call SoHo retail -- chic boutiques.

Carter said French luxury retailer Hermes was one of the first to sign on with the project and will have a 4,000-square-foot boutique in The Streets of Buckhead.

Also coming is AG Adriano Goldschmied, which offers designer denim for men and women; Domenico Vacca, featuring custom-tailored suits; Etro, based in Milan; and Bottega Veneta, a division of Gucci selling apparel, leather goods and home goods that plans to open a flagship store in Atlanta. "This is going to kick up the retailing in Atlanta not just a notch, but way up," said Hal Barry, chairman of Barry Real Estate Cos. "This is going to give us high-end luxury shops, but all in one tight place, rather than spread out over eight blocks on Madison Avenue. This will be real destination shopping in Atlanta."

Restaurants coming to the project include French bistro La Goulue and Bottega del Vino, a white tablecloth Italian establishment, which will be adjacent to 1 Hotel & Residences, Barry said.

Fellow retail developer Steve Selig, president of Selig Enterprises Inc., said Carter "has pulled off something a lot of us didn't think would happen. He's pulled it off and we couldn't be happier for him."

Selig Enterprises sold some of its land to Carter to help assemble the parcels necessary to make The Streets of Buckhead happen, he said.

"We worked with him on this project and we continue to work with him," Selig said. "What's good for Atlanta is good for all of us. We're Atlantans first."

[(four 0 four)]

Also coming is AG Adriano Goldschmied, Domenico Vacca, Etro and Bottega Veneta.

And a Piggly Wiggly.:)

[ATLaffinity]

if the sculpture is any indication of the overall arts flair of the project then .. well let's just say art is a subjective experience.


w/o seeing it in context K.3 looks like a great focal point. it's dramatic.

but the renderings look so bad...

EDIT: I like how Ben has awarded his hotels "five-stars" already. I hear the service is excellent.

[ATLaffinity]

Wow, this isn't going to help the Midtown Mile.

Midtown Mile seems to have done zilch. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Midtown Mile needs a Whole Foods and an Apple Store.

This does make the streetcar seem like a good idea.

[Tombstoner]

Stella sounds like they intend on making this a class act--good sign...

[SAV]

Yeah, Buckhead is comin out swingin. Maybe once more Midtown towers get done they'll announce some retail for the midtown Mile. But from the looks of it, the higher end retail is going to buckhead. Which is how it should be anyway.

Either way in about 5 years or less, Atlanta is going to be officially upgraded.

Anybody know when the streetcar is going to start.

[Fiorenza]

Anybody have information on planning on the east side of Marietta Street from the Northside Drive juncture to the Howell Mill Road juncture; and the west side of Howell Mill from about 11th St. to 14th St? Given everything that's been happening and is happening on the west side of those streets, and how junky it looks on the east side, I have to think some things are in the mill.

[ATLskyline]

not too great but it inlcudes both a 15 and 18 story condo tower.

Site Plan (http://www.atlantaregional.com/webdocs/Land%20Use/Reviews/ID851/Site%20Plan.pdf)

[ATLskyline]

Here is the siteplan for a small part of The Streets Of Buckhead

Site Plan (http://www.atlantaregional.com/webdocs/Land%20Use/Reviews/ID856/Preliminary%20Report.pdf)

[jobe]

Will be curious to see what the Streets price points are. With what he paid for the land, the condos are sure gonna be expensive.

[trainiac]

Anybody have information on planning on the east side of Marietta Street from the Northside Drive juncture to the Howell Mill Road juncture; and the west side of Howell Mill from about 11th St. to 14th St? Given everything that's been happening and is happening on the west side of those streets, and how junky it looks on the east side, I have to think some things are in the mill.

What? You've got something against used car parts and vacant warehouses? Picky, picky :)

I hadn't seen this site yet (it was in an ABC ad today)
http://24.98.254.148:82/buildings/images/brickworks/bw_el_marietta_lg.jpg

I've always loved that one-story spanish-looking building on the right. They actually do list 5 Seasons brew pub and many retailers which I don't recognize http://www.midtownwest.com/

Here's a map of the extent of their plans which, unfortunately don't cover the sections you're talking about. Oh, well
http://www.atlhistory.com/images/stories/westside/5seasons.png

Speaking of transitional light-industrial sites: I revisited the Sweetwater brewery over at Armour on Thursday -- man, that area will be completely different in 5 years. The BeltLine tour I went on last month mentioned some possible road & transit connections between Armour and Peachtree Hills and Piedmont Heights. Yowza, wish I was buying property all over the place!

[smArTaLlone]

Here is the siteplan for a small part of The Streets Of Buckhead

Site Plan (http://www.atlantaregional.com/webdocs/Land%20Use/Reviews/ID856/Preliminary%20Report.pdf)

The renderings in yesterday's paper look pretty nice too.

[boomtown]

Wow, this isn't going to help the Midtown Mile.

Midtown Mile seems to have done zilch. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Midtown Mile needs a Whole Foods and an Apple Store.

This does make the streetcar seem like a good idea.

One of those stores is definitely coming to the Midtown Mile.....that's all I can say.....

[Condosearcher]

Has anyone noticed that the plan posted above and the DRI are for the SW corner of Peachtree and Pharr (the old $3 cafe corner). While all the renderings and all the maps in the paper are the other side of the street???

[Atlriser]

I don't think so, it shows on the plan the $3 location as being across the street and not owned by Carter on the site plan unless I read the plan backwards.

[KevinAtl]

Has anyone noticed that the plan posted above and the DRI are for the SW corner of Peachtree and Pharr (the old $3 cafe corner). While all the renderings and all the maps in the paper are the other side of the street???

Wow! You're right! Wachovia is across Pharr Rd

[dirtybird]

One of those stores is definitely coming to the Midtown Mile.....that's all I can say.....

I'm thinking Apple because a Whole Foods would be too close to the Ponce location.

[atl2phx]

Has anyone noticed that the plan posted above and the DRI are for the SW corner of Peachtree and Pharr (the old $3 cafe corner). While all the renderings and all the maps in the paper are the other side of the street???

you're right. i don't think that corner was included in any of the announcements as part of carter's SOB assembly. we'll know soon enough!

[Atlriser]

If we wanted to really help the environment and push for sustainable building techniques...wouldn't it make sense to eliminate surface parking lots all together like in the Vinings Site Plan above. I do know the increased costs but all those 1 and 2 story shops could be built on top of the parking thus leaving all the surface lot area as park land that'd help filter the rain run off and create trees to clean the air.

I would bet that short term the costs are higher for development but long term the costs are cheaper due to less sewer treatment, retaining pond maintenance, water irrigation of small concrete lot plantings, less polution and even cheaper cooling and heating costs if large trees were planted around the buildings to create shade in the summer and warmth in the winter. Why do all these crazy enviro people never suggest something simplier like this change in building techniques instead of going for hog wild crazy ideas that most people think outlandish?

[gttx]

Why do all these crazy enviro people never suggest something simplier like this change in building techniques instead of going for hog wild crazy ideas that most people think outlandish?

They do suggest those things, but are typically ignored because of the enormous expense of buying a parcel of land and then never developing it into anything except grass. I do think, however, that you may need to do a little bit of research into the LEED program and green building techniques - what you may consider "crazy ideas" are actually immensely better for the environment than just planting a few trees (assuming the building is constructed either way). High-rise buildings are enormous resource-consumers, and cutting down on energy usage, wastewater, carbon emissions, and a host of other things has a much greater effect than you seem to think.

[Atlriser]

I don't consider LEED crazy and honestly I don't think the enviro crazies I was referring to pushed for many of the changes that are part of being an LEED building. I was referring to the broader public in my comments...sorry for not being clearer in my comments. The public that thinks profits are to high on gas are more in line for my thoughts not knowing the actual profit percentage versus the amount of taxes paid on fuel...blah blah blah those types of crazy clueless individuals that believe anything on tv or the internet.