Atlanta Project Thread III

[friedokra1]

how likely is it that this project will be realized? It would be great if this were built, however leave it to politics and the dearth of vision on the state level and this project doesn't stand much of a chance eh?:hell:

[Fiorenza]

I think it fails to recognize some of the preexisting urban elements in south Downtown and simply reacts by tearing everything down. I do prefer green space to exposed rail and surface parking though. For some reason I think some of those things make the area interesting and intriguing. Almost like a blast from the past (a not particularly bad past) which is a rare find in Atlanta.

The plan definitely needs to recognize and incorporate most of the existing elements. And, I do agree that 5th Street-style viaduct parks would be nice. However, I'm not sure how much additional space would actually accommodate additional structures. I think those structures should fit the historical nature of Underground, etc.

[smArTaLlone]

I like this plan or most of it. I think it fails to recognize some of the preexisting urban elements in south Downtown and simply reacts by tearing everything down. I do prefer green space to exposed rail and surface parking though. For some reason I think some of those things make the area interesting and intriguing. Almost like a blast from the past (a not particularly bad past) which is a rare find in Atlanta. Maybe we should work on Garnett Station first?

Tearing everything down? Where? The brilliance of this is that there's not much of anything where the greenspace would go.

[Fiorenza]

The greenspace, yes, but what about the buildings they're showing there?

[L.ARCH]

This has got to be the scariest condo site in Atlanta

By PAUL DONSKY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 12/16/07

Boulevard takes on a menacing character as it runs through the Old Fourth Ward neighborhood.

A half-mile stretch of the busy road is lined with a grim collection of low-rent apartment buildings, run-down convenience stores and empty lots. People hang out on dingy stoops and patchy front lawns at all hours. Crime is rampant, area residents say.
Pouya Dianat/AJC

Workers from Roy Bishop House Movers relocate a house from the intersection of Boulevard and North Avenue to a nearby lot. Construction is supposed to start soon on a condo-townhouse-retail development in the neighborhood.

The proposed 555 the Boulevard project, as shown in an artist's rendering, would have ground-level retail, seven townhomes and 31 condo units.

The dozen or so blocks remain a stubborn holdout against the gentrification that has transformed much of Atlanta's east side, but developers are planning a new housing and retail project in the area that gives some residents hope the tide may finally be turning.

Construction is set to begin soon on a six-story mixed-use development called 555 the Boulevard, featuring condos, townhomes and ground-level shops. Prices will start in the high $200,000s. The largest of the 38 housing units will have four bedrooms and cost more than $700,000.

It's an enormous bet on a blighted area, but it's not as risky as it sounds at first blush, said Gabriella Nanci, who is developing the project with several partners.

The property sits less than a mile from downtown, close to trendy shops and restaurants in Midtown and Virginia-Highland, Nanci said. One block to the east, on Glen Iris Boulevard, industrial buildings have been demolished to make way for condos and apartments.

Professionals are slowly moving into the neighborhood — though not yet on Boulevard — snapping up new single-family homes that are being built on nearby streets, Nanci said.

Nanci, a physician who came to Atlanta from California several years ago to complete her medical school training, said it's only a matter of time before Boulevard turns over as well.

"How can it be so close to downtown and have this incredible view and stay this way forever?" she said. "It's just ripe for new development."

Most of the property along that stretch of Boulevard is owned by Massachusetts-based Wingate Management Co., which operates 733 apartment units clustered on Boulevard and smaller cross streets.

The development, Bedford Pine apartments, is the largest privately owned, federally subsidized housing complex in Georgia, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Rumors have swirled for years that the apartments are on the verge of closing, which would clear the way for a massive redevelopment.

But don't look for Bedford Pine to come down soon. HUD officials in Atlanta said Bedford Pine's owners must provide at least one year's notice, should they decide to terminate their Section 8 contracts. No notice has been given.

Gene Lockard, a regional vice president with Wingate Management, declined to comment about the future of the apartments.

He said the city needs developments like Bedford Pine that offer affordable places to live. When the company bought the property two decades ago, many of the buildings were abandoned and boarded up, Lockard said.

"We took housing that was boarding houses and flophouses and put people in there that needed assistance," he said. "As the neighborhood is growing, it seems neighbors don't want 'those people' living there anymore."

Meanwhile, the apartments remain — as does a fair amount of crime, according to neighborhood residents such as William Harkness, a 21-year-old construction worker who lives in an apartment building directly behind the future Boulevard condo/townhome complex.

He wonders how high-end condos will fit into the surrounding neighborhood.

"I don't think it's going to be good," he said, watching work crews move two houses off the condo site on a recent morning. "There's too much robbery around here, and gun violence. This is a bad area."

Neighborhood leader Lydia Meredith said she's tired of the violence.

"We have people shot all the time on the Boulevard," said Meredith, president of the Central Atlanta Neighborhood Association.

She feels the mixed-use development is a sign that things are about to change.

"I see that project as being the beginning of a huge transition for our neighborhood," Meredith said. "The flavor of the neighborhood is already changing, but it's changing on the streets that are attached to the Boulevard. The Boulevard is the

heart. The heart has to change."

Atlanta City Council member Kwanza Hall, who represents the area, says the solution may be to rezone the area to allow for greater density of housing. That could provide enough of a financial incentive for Wingate Management to redevelop its property, either on its own or with a business partner.

Hall is leading an effort to create a master plan for the Old Fourth Ward and said he'd push to include the rezoning request.

Hall said the new condo/townhome project signals a "rebirth" for the troubled stretch of Boulevard. He noted that to make way for the complex, developers tore down a convenience store that had become a "den of crime and prostitution and drugs."

"It's the very beginning of, I think, a bright future," he said. The project will help "to redefine this area as a grand boulevard and let it live up to the name that it has."

[Terminus]

I like this plan or most of it. I think it fails to recognize some of the preexisting urban elements in south Downtown and simply reacts by tearing everything down.

What are you talking about? I live adjacent to this area and (other than the old Georgia Power building at Forsyth and Alabamer Street, there's literally nothing in this area but surface parking lots, parking decks, and railroad lines.

[Tombstoner]

This has got to be the scariest condo site in Atlanta

By PAUL DONSKY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 12/16/07

Boulevard takes on a menacing character as it runs through the Old Fourth Ward neighborhood.


Hmmm... I pass through this area a lot and have never found it particularly scary (not a nice place, but I've seen worse).

[Andrea]

Hmmm... I pass through this area a lot and have never found it particularly scary (not a nice place, but I've seen worse).

I drive through there but can't recall traversing it on foot. As long as I'm ensconced in my two ton steel chariot with power door locks I tend to be much less concerned about violence than when I'm out walking among the hoi polloi.

[dante2308]

Hmmm... I pass through this area a lot and have never found it particularly scary (not a nice place, but I've seen worse).

Its right next to Inmann Park so I've been through a few times. I've gotten off at Martin Luther King Memorial Station too. It wasn't a big deal. I guess living in Kingston makes you immune to seeing poor black people and development no fly zones. In fact I kept wondering if there was some authentic food I could get around there and maybe finally a locktitian for my hair I could trust.

[Sketching]

Here is a good example of what that stretch of Boulevard is like:
Former Fox 5 reporter Doug Richards filed this story called The Boulevard Hustle.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EaXr5qHAlbY

[gttx]

Now, I'm no police officer, but I feel like it wouldn't be too difficult to make drug arrests there. The guy was hustling a news reporter with a camera behind him...

[dante2308]

Here is a good example of what that stretch of Boulevard is like:
Former Fox 5 reporter Doug Richards filed this story called The Boulevard Hustle.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EaXr5qHAlbY

Wow, that was pretty bad. Remember that drugs are very very lucrative and maybe just maybe there is a reason the cops don't take it all down.

[gttx]

Wow, that was pretty bad. Remember that drugs are very very lucrative and maybe just maybe there is a reason the cops don't take it all down.

Well one of the reasons, certainly, is that the Atlanta drug unit has basically been shut down since the incident involving the death of that old woman. Don't get me wrong, there were some serious problems that needed to be addressed, but in doing so the police department pretty much had its hands tied when it came to drug enforcement. Hopefully we'll see more happening as this comes back online.

[kardon]

Developer shot dead at Midtown home

By S.A. REID
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 12/16/07

An Atlanta developer was fatally shot Sunday in his Midtown home, police said.

Bryon D. Washington, chief executive officer of Ravenwood Development Co. Inc., was killed about 5 a.m. at 1717 Monroe Drive, Atlanta police confirmed. He was 47.

The shooter has been identified, but no charges had been filed as of Sunday afternoon, authorities said. The investigation was continuing. No further details on the shooting were available.

Ravenwood Development has built in Atlanta's Old Fourth Ward, the Martin Luther King Jr. historic district and the Virginia-Highland neighborhood.

The company's most recent projects include Bishops Row, 513 Edgewood Ave. and the planned 629 Boulevard, according to the firm's Web site.

Ravenwood, with offices at 513 Edgewood Ave., also operates a real estate brokerage, Ravenwood Realty Co. LLC.

Linda Freeman-Allen, a realty sales team member, said she was shocked by Washington's death and described him as a "wonderful guy and great businessman."

Family members and others affiliated with the company declined to comment on the shooting.

[Teshadoh]

Wow, that was pretty bad. Remember that drugs are very very lucrative and maybe just maybe there is a reason the cops don't take it all down.

And that is why we usually tried to drive on Glen Iris instead of Blvd when we drove north to Midtown / Va Highlands. I can only imagine gentrification will solve the problem. Which I realizes sucks, poor people deserve a place to live in the city, but anyone that has driven on that street & witnessed the hordes of white t-shirts EVERYWHERE would agree.

[Andrea]

An Atlanta developer was fatally shot Sunday in his Midtown home, police said.

Bryon D. Washington, chief executive officer of Ravenwood Development Co. Inc., was killed about 5 a.m. at 1717 Monroe Drive, Atlanta police confirmed. He was 47.

Oh, my god. Doesn't someone from Ravenwood post on this board?

:(

[smArTaLlone]

STREETCARS FOR PEACHTREE: Next stop: Public comment

Series of meetings starting Jan. 8 gives opportunity for input before City Council considers $190 million proposal --- and tax levy --- for downtown and Midtown.

By Paul Donsky
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 12/19/07

Streetcars could be rolling down Peachtree Street within six years as part of a $190 million proposal that supporters say will transform Atlanta's signature thoroughfare.

The streetcars would mix with regular traffic, drawing power from overhead electric cables, in downtown and Midtown.

The proposal has drawn support from many of Atlanta's business and civic leaders, who see an opportunity to create a postcard-perfect symbol the landlocked city has sorely lacked.

"We want to create a world-class street, a world-class boulevard, in Atlanta," said Ray Christman, former president and chief executive of Federal Home Loan Bank of Atlanta, who chaired the Peachtree Corridor Partnership formed by Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin to study the issue.

Several roadblocks remain before streetcar tracks return to Atlanta after a more-than-50-year absence.

The plan must be approved by the Atlanta City Council, which may balk at raising taxes in the area served by the streetcar, part of the proposal to cover the bulk of construction costs. The state Legislature would need to approve a law allowing Atlanta to levy a parking tax to cover operating costs, projected to be up to $6 million a year.

Four public meetings are planned, starting Jan. 8, with a final proposal handed to the City Council by March.

The plan includes about 10 miles of track along two main routes: on Peachtree between Memorial Drive in downtown Atlanta and the Woodruff Arts Center in Midtown; and an east-west loop linking downtown tourist sites.

The construction cost would be shouldered largely by businesses and owners of multi-family housing within a quarter-mile of the trolley line. A special tax district would be created in that area, raising the property tax rate by two to three mills —- up to $360 for the owner of a $300,000 condo. Single-family homes would be exempt. The city would kick in as much as $47.5 million for construction.

Greg Guhl, who lives in a Peachtree Street condo, represents the quandary facing project organizers. Guhl would love to see a streetcar, but he thinks organizers should seek other funding options. "I think we pay a lot of taxes to our government in the first place," said Guhl. Organizers "should be able to find money from other sources."

Guhl said he'd make more trips to places like Centennial Olympic Park if he could ride a streetcar.

"To me, being able to look at the buildings, the architecture, it personalizes everything," he said.

The proposal comes two years after Franklin formed a task force to explore the feasibility of bringing streetcars back. Last March, the group reported, calling for a $1 billion makeover for Peachtree, with a 19-mile streetcar route from Buckhead to Fort McPherson, and extensive road and sidewalk improvements.

The mayor asked Christman to turn the vision into a workable plan. Over the last six months, Christman met with community and political leaders and emerged with a significantly scaled-back proposal, with half the streetcar miles and at one-fifth the cost.

Starting in Midtown and downtown makes the most sense, Christman said, because costly and time-consuming road improvements are not needed in those areas to accommodate the streetcar, and with the density of housing and offices already in place it has the best chance of attracting riders.

Christman said the plan should be seen as Phase 1 of a potentially much larger streetcar system. Expansions could be partially funded by federal transit grants, as has been done in Portland, Ore.

Atlanta City Councilman Kwanza Hall said he's excited about the plans but wants streetcars along other thoroughfares, such as Boulevard and Ponce de Leon Avenue.

"I think it's worth being a little more aggressive without breaking the bank or hurting our taxpayers," said Hall, whose represents most of the proposed streetcar route.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4821/image6343101jk8.jpg

[joey]

Not to say that I don't like the idea of a streetcar along this route (because I do), but wouldn't it make more sense to do the Lenox-to-Midtown route first? That area is sorely lacking in fixed-guideway transit.

The streetcar, surely, will get ridership along the shorter Phase I route, but won't it mostly be cannibalizing MARTA?

[megalopolis]

Who is this Greg Guhl guy? He's also mentioned in this recent article below about Boomers moving intown. He must be the media go-to person for Midtown residents.

http://www.smartmoney.com/mag/index.cfm?story=january2008-realestate

[SAV]

Well, If they start the Dollar a day transit plan anytime soon, then this may happen faster

[smArTaLlone]

Not to say that I don't like the idea of a streetcar along this route (because I do), but wouldn't it make more sense to do the Lenox-to-Midtown route first? That area is sorely lacking in fixed-guideway transit.

The streetcar, surely, will get ridership along the shorter Phase I route, but won't it mostly be cannibalizing MARTA?

Probably because getting the streetcar through Brookwood and those areas is going to be the costliest part of it.

[SwimAtl]

i've spoken with folks in brookwood who say the neighborhood(s) are organized against the streetcar - that would not surprise me.

[MarketsWork]

I really like this plan! Streetcars are the ultimate in convenience, and a streetcar line down Auburn Avenue just SCREAMS for the Civil Rights Museum to be built where it belongs -- on historic "Sweet Auburn." This would only add to the momentum started by the Renaissance Walk condos, and with further development could return Auburn Avenue to its former prominence.

[Fiorenza]

Once more....how do they plan to pay for it?

[sunking1056]

i've spoken with folks in brookwood who say the neighborhood(s) are organized against the streetcar - that would not surprise me.

That's a shame. I really think the streetcar would go such a long way to making this area more accessible and providing easy transit access to midtown and buckhead, since this is one stretch where MARTA veers somewhat significantly off of Peachtree.

[RobMidtowner]

Once more....how do they plan to pay for it?

Did you read the article? It's paid for with a special tax assessment on property owners within a quarter mile of the corridor as shown on the map.

[Fiorenza]

I can't see it happening that way.

[RobMidtowner]

Well how else would you pay for it? What's your plan?

As a property owner that would pay the tax, I support it.

[Fiorenza]

I'm sure you'd support it, but not the majority.

The only way it'll happen, would be as a Democrat public works project in a recession. Otherwise, people will support but will not pay for it - not at the federal, state, or local level.

[megalopolis]

I really like this plan! Streetcars are the ultimate in convenience, and a streetcar line down Auburn Avenue just SCREAMS for the Civil Rights Museum to be built where it belongs -- on historic "Sweet Auburn." This would only add to the momentum started by the Renaissance Walk condos, and with further development could return Auburn Avenue to its former prominence.


MarketsWork, does that mean they've found some land on Sweet Auburn on which to build the civil rights museum? Hopefully it's donated, like Coke's land by Centennial Park is. I'd hate to see the cost of the museum go up, delaying its opening or preventing it from happening at all.

[megalopolis]

I can't see it happening that way.

Is it really too much to ask an owner of a $300,000 Peachtree condo to pay $1 a day in additional taxes for an alternative transportation service that will, in the end, boost their property values a lot more than that?

[Fiorenza]

You can ask.

[Trae]

You can ask.

Your the one questioning it.

[Fiorenza]

Yeah, I'm questioning how they're gonna fund it.

[Andrea]

Yeah, I'm questioning how they're gonna fund it.

Fiorenza, how do y'all fund all those huge public works projects out in Gwinnett County? I'm sure the tab for stuff like the Gwinnett Convention Center, Gwinnett County Transit and the I-85/GA 316 intersection must dwarf projects like this little streetcar. Maybe we could take a page out of your book?

[Fiorenza]

Don't know how Gwinnett did it, I suspect with bonds with the the venue revenue being used to pay them off. I'm not a big fan of such stuff because I don't think the rinkie-dink events on offer are adding any value. I went to a hockey game there and was put off by all the commercialism.

Now, about the trolley...

[Andrea]

Don't know how Gwinnett did it, I suspect with bonds with the the venue revenue being used to pay them off.

Hm. If that is how Gwinnett paid for this stuff (and I know you're not saying that's how it was done), then maybe it could work for the streetcar.

It could be that Gwinnett got some state or federal money for the 85/316 project. I read somewhere that that's the biggest transportation project ever done in Georgia. If so, maybe Atlanta could get a little state or federal money for the streetcar, too.

[Fiorenza]

A streetcar system for Atlanta (not just on Peachtree, but running on all major thoroughfares) would be a wonderful vision, but it's never going to happen under the present regime of how the budget is being allocated , administered and spent in cities like Atlanta. There is a tremendous amount of payroll in the city, and unfunded pension liability. Maybe at some point Clark Howard or some other younger-generation realist can get control of the problem, and re-allocate some of the money for capital improvements such as smart traffic signals and streetcars. Until that happens, Atlanta doesn't have the leverage to get anything out of the state or feds. At the federal level the really big pork is going to the home states of the "Cardinals", the congressional appropriators. Atlanta these days is a red-headed stepchild. We're lucky to have the CDC.

[gttx]

But who needs capital improvements when we can just replace 500 stolen parking meters every year for $500 apiece?

[Muskavon]

Is it really too much to ask an owner of a $300,000 Peachtree condo to pay $1 a day in additional taxes for an alternative transportation service that will, in the end, boost their property values a lot more than that?

Is Fiorenza really saying it is a bad idea? Or just suggesting that, no matter how sensible it sounds...good luck getting a majority to vote themselves for it? There's a difference.

[Terminus]

Well how else would you pay for it? What's your plan?

As a property owner that would pay the tax, I support it.

Me too, as do most of my Downtown neighbors I've talked to. In fact, I haven't spoken to one whose against it.

It just needs to go two ways on Auburn. The concept of an Auburn/Edgewood two way pair is stupid (and so Atlanta, I might add). For transit to work it must be conceptually simple. You can't tell people, "Oh if you're going east you catch it here, and west there..." It just doesn't work that way.

[megalopolis]

Is Fiorenza really saying it is a bad idea? Or just suggesting that, no matter how sensible it sounds...good luck getting a majority to vote themselves for it? There's a difference.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't a taxpayer majority vote situation. The City Council will decide whether or not to impose the new tax, although they will solicit feedback from the community first. Like Terminus, I also live within the Peachtree Corridor, and most of my Midtown neighbors, including myself, support the proposed tax. I think the City Council will pass the legislation, but it will be a group effort to formulate it.

[Angenoir]

It seems like a good idea to me but everything is easier said than done. Realistically speaking what is the actual likelihood of this idea coming to fruition?

[Tombstoner]

...It just needs to go two ways on Auburn. The concept of an Auburn/Edgewood two way pair is stupid (and so Atlanta, I might add). For transit to work it must be conceptually simple. You can't tell people, "Oh if you're going east you catch it here, and west there..." It just doesn't work that way.

It works 'that way' perfectly fine in many cities all over the world. I'm just saying...

[atlantaguy]

Me too, as do most of my Downtown neighbors I've talked to. In fact, I haven't spoken to one whose against it.

It just needs to go two ways on Auburn. The concept of an Auburn/Edgewood two way pair is stupid (and so Atlanta, I might add). For transit to work it must be conceptually simple. You can't tell people, "Oh if you're going east you catch it here, and west there..." It just doesn't work that way.

Just what exactly do you mean by "so Atlanta" in regards to this proposal?

Ever been to Portland? It works perfectly fine there.

[Terminus]

It works 'that way' perfectly fine in many cities all over the world. I'm just saying...

Could you please provide examples for me to look at (e.g. review in Google earth)? The only ones I can think of are in Milan where some of then are on-way because the streets are so narrow in the medieval city. Believe me, as a tourist it was a pain.

Thanks.

[Neosoul]

I'm all for it if helps alleviate traffic. But could somebody explain how it would work. Peachtree is so narrow as it is. Wouldn't this thing end up getting stuck in traffic with all the other cars?

[trnsplnt]

I agree Terminus. If you can't get to every possible destination from one single point, what's it worth?!? I mean, this streetcar is going west, and you expect me to walk an entire block over to go east WTF! You know what, I'll just drive.

[Tombstoner]

Could you please provide examples for me to look at (e.g. review in Google earth)? The only ones I can think of are in Milan where some of then are on-way because the streets are so narrow in the medieval city. Believe me, as a tourist it was a pain.

Thanks.

Gosh...I honestly don't know where to begin. Most major Mexican cities, NYC, San Francisco, Buenos Aires, Johannesburg, Pittsburgh (sorry I'm being random here...just typing as cities come to mind), Barcelona, Madrid (actually, most European cities I can think of--not just Milan). Lots. Of course, I realize that these cities aren't exclusively one-way but definitely in some high-traffic areas. Personally, I really like it (though I'm sure you have your reasons for not liking it), but my only point was that it is something that works for a lot of places and I think it may be an overstatement to say that it's "stupid."

[L.ARCH]

from the ajc...

Sembler: No Costco-size store

The Sembler Co.'s development of about 19 acres near Atlantic Station probably would not include Costco or a store of similar size, a company representative told Home Park neighborhood leaders last week.

"We want to complement Atlantic Station, not compete with it," DeAnn Campbell, development manager with Sembler, said. Atlantic Station's retail includes large stores such as Target and Ikea.

The Georgia Tech Foundation owns 26 acres at Northside Drive and 14th Street that it plans to sell. Sembler would handle the retail development, and Pollack Partners would build approximately 600 residential units. Pollack is eyeing 7-plus acres in the northeast corner of the property along Macaslin and 16th streets.

The college women's softball stadium and the golf team's driving range have occupied the entire site; they will have to move.

Campbell said Sembler might have a site plan ready in February. "We have to find a few tenants first," she said.

Home Park residents called the property "a signature site" and said they wanted to see a development with "real urban character."

[Terminus]

Gosh...I honestly don't know where to begin. Most major Mexican cities, NYC, San Francisco, Buenos Aires, Johannesburg, Pittsburgh (sorry I'm being random here...just typing as cities come to mind), Barcelona, Madrid (actually, most European cities I can think of--not just Milan). Lots. Of course, I realize that these cities aren't exclusively one-way but definitely in some high-traffic areas. Personally, I really like it (though I'm sure you have your reasons for not liking it), but my only point was that it is something that works for a lot of places and I think it may be an overstatement to say that it's "stupid."

OK, not "stupid," but not ideal. The ideal choice is always two tracks in two directions on a single street (other than a turn around area). I've reviewed the cities mentioned and have concluded that:

a) Those with tracks like you've mentioned only seem to occur where the streets are very narrow (as is not the case on Auburn, which is a 2 lane section plus 2 lanes of parking); and

b) Where the block sizes are small (under 200 feet in Portland) so that you can catch the line in the opposite direction conveniently (also not the case on Auburn/Edgewood).

Thus, I continue to believe that both tracks should be on Auburn Avenue or Edgewood Avenue, but not one on each. The situations that necessitate a variance from this ideal do not exist here.

[micropundit]

http://www.paperhousemodels.com/projects/002/phipps1_01.jpg


http://www.paperhousemodels.com/projects/002/phipps1_02.jpg

http://www.paperhousemodels.com/projects/002/phipps1_03.jpg

[Behind_Phips]

http://www.paperhousemodels.com/projects/002/phipps1_01.jpg


http://www.paperhousemodels.com/projects/002/phipps1_02.jpg

http://www.paperhousemodels.com/projects/002/phipps1_03.jpg

Nice find. I love this tower. I think I will have a view from my backyard too. :cheers:

[L.ARCH]

I must admit this building has some nice detailing...

[niff]

I like the look of this tower as well. It is not often, or so it seems sometimes, for a 20-something story building to look like more than just a squat box.

[RobMidtowner]

This will definitely fit in well in Buckhead. :tup:

[gttx]

What's with the random planters on top of the parking deck?

[Muskavon]

What's with the random planters on top of the parking deck?

It doesn't look random to me. They just maximized the parking spaces on an odd shaped area.

[Andrea]

What's with the random planters on top of the parking deck?

Code requirement, if I'm not mistaken.

[Dragonheart8588]

I think the building looks good.

However, if I have the money, I would never buy there.

Both side of the building faces two parking lot on each side and the other two sides face the back of a mall and GA 400.

Only the top floors with the view might negate the negatives :previous:

[Behind_Phips]

I think the building looks good.

However, if I have the money, I would never buy there.

Both side of the building faces two parking lot on each side and the other two sides face the back of a mall and GA 400.

Only the top floors with the view might negate the negatives :previous:

First of all, stop selling yourself short. Instead of saying if I had the money; say when I have the money!

Not to worry anyway Drangonheart, this is going to be an office building. :tup:

[Dragonheart8588]

First of all, stop selling yourself short. Instead saying if I had the money; say when I have the money!

Not to worry anyway Dragonheart, this is going to be an office building. :tup:

Thanks for the nice words and you are right, WHEN I have the money,I would never buy a place there. ;)

Merry Christmas to you and I hope you are having a wonderful time!!!

Even as a office building, it would be kind of depressing to look out for 8 hours a day/5 days a week.

[Behind_Phips]

Thanks for the nice words and you are right, WHEN I have the money,I would never buy a place there. ;)

Merry Christmas to you and I hope you are having a wonderful time!!!

Even as a office building, it would be kind of depressing to look out for 8 hours a day/5 days a week.

Merry Christmas to you too! :cheers:

[Atlriser]

Phipps Tower looks like the Crescent Ridge proposal revisited does it not?

[atlantaguy]

^It really does - I wonder if it's the same firm that designed Crescent Ridge?

[Andrea]

Condo building at Terminus. Seems to be coming along.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2195/2152956080_0acc3816c4.jpg

[Andrea]

The Woodruff Arts Center's new campus in Alpharetta looks terrific. Though it doesn't have the intimacy of Chastain, it should be a superlative facility. It also brings the symphony closer to Atlanta's population core.

http://www.atlantasymphony.com/abouttheaso/encorepark/encorepark.aspx

[NativeAtlantan]

I am sorry Andrea but why you keep saying that Alpharetta is closer to Atlanta's core than Atlanta is, is beyond me.

Everyone doesn't live in the Northern suburbs. If they did, I would agree with you.

This is just an attempt to be close to the higher income folks in the northern suburbs, not an attempt to be at the Metro's core.

[Andrea]

Oh, I realize there are plenty of differing opinions about where the "heart" of Atlanta is. I'm just talking about the population center.

[SteveD]

Andrea I agree with the above poster and almost posted an identical comment yesterday. The move may make it closer to the target patron group, but certainly not to Atlanta's population center or core. Atlanta's densest population is now and is likely to be for the foreseeable future, inside the perimeter. The "population center" is an interesting concept. The World Almanac and Book of Facts defines it as "that point upon which (an area) would balance if it were a rigid plane without weight and the population distributed thereon, and each individual assumed to have equal weight and to exert an influence on a central point proportional to his or her distance from that point". I submit that, for metro Atlanta, that point would be inside the Perimeter, and wouldn't be remotely anywhere near Alpharetta. If you "balanced" Atlanta on a point at Alpharetta you'd have about 90 percent of the metro population south of it. Given Atlanta's sprawl in every direction, and that many of the nation's fastest growing counties are on each side of the metro, Atlanta's "population center" is likely surprisingly close to downtown, maybe with a marginal tick northward. As a point of reference, the population center of the U.S. is roughly midway between Springfield and St. Louis, MO.

[Andrea]

Possibly, Steve, I'd be interested to see the stats. I guess I'm going from the assumption that ITP population is no more than 1 million, whereas the big suburban regions to the north have several times that many folks.

[SteveD]

Possibly, Steve, I'd be interested to see the stats. I guess I'm going from the assumption that ITP population is no more than 1 million, whereas the big suburban regions to the north have several times that many folks.

Andrea, the definition of population center is not debatable...it's a defined concept. It has no bearing on how many people live inside the perimeter. It has to do with the total population distribution throughout the metro area and where that population distribution would be "centered", or "balanced". Where that population center is would most certainly be interesting to see, but, we can be sure that it wouldn't be anywhere near Alpharetta. Think of it this way: if you had to draw an east-west line across the Atlanta metro such that the population north and south of that line was the same, where would it be? Alpharetta? No way! As I indicated above, an east-west line drawn through Alpharetta would place about 90 percent of the metro population south of it. All or substantial majorities of 24 of the metro's 28 counties are south of Alpharetta, including ALL of Cobb, Dekalb, Douglas, Clayton, Rockdale, etc, and about 90 percent of Fulton and Gwinnett. To get the "population center" you'd also have to draw the north-south line, with populations east and west equivalent, and the intersection of those two lines would define the population center. If I had to make an educated guess as to Atlanta's population center, somewhere around Lenox Square might be close. The population center would skew northward, undoubtedly, but not nearly far enough to get it outside the Perimeter.

[Andrea]

Steve, thanks, I understand the concept. You are probably right that it's not as far north as Alpharetta, but my guess would be that the center mght be closer to Sandy Springs than Lenox. But as you know I don't know beans about statistics and things like that.

[SteveD]

Oh I know, Andrea, it's fun to think about, and I'm a population stat freak. I still wouldn't think Sandy Springs, although that might be pretty close. Get your metro Atlanta map and put a horizontal ruler at Sandy Springs. The population south of Sandy Springs would be greater than that north of it, wouldn't you say?

[Fiorenza]

The population center 15 years ago was said to be Buckhead. Today I've no idea where it is, but I'd assume further north-northeast but still inside 285.

[SteveD]

:previous: Yeah. That sounds about right to me.

[gttx]

I'm sure we could all agree that the "population center" is nowhere that is served by MARTA. I'm sure we could all also agree that it is not in Bankhead, College Park, or West End. Yes, I am implying something.

[Teshadoh]

The population center is still in Buckhead, remember there are people that live south of Atlanta in Henry, Butts, Clayton, Fayette & Coweta counties.

[MarketsWork]

The population center is still in Buckhead, remember there are people that live south of Atlanta in Henry, Butts, Clayton, Fayette & Coweta counties.

Not as many people live in those counties as one might think. According to the Census Bureau's 2000 figures, a total of 838,000 people live in the south metro counties of Butts, Clayton, Coweta, Douglas, Fayette, Henry, Newton, Rockdale and Spalding. By 2010, the total is projected to grow to 1,199,000 residents.

In the center, Fulton and Dekalb total 1,482,000 residents -- although a good portion of Fulton residents actually live north of I-285. By 2010, the total is projected to be 1,539,000.

By contrast, the northern metro counties of Bartow, Cobb, Cherokee, Forsyth, Gwinnett, Hall, Paulding and Walton included 1,794,000 residents in 2000. But those counties are projected to have a whopping 2,546,000 residents by 2010.

So according to the 2000 Census, Atlanta's "middle" holds 36% of the metro population, while the northern counties hold 44% and the southern metro includes only 20%. And by the Georgia Office of Planning & Budget's projections, by 2010 the middle will hold only 29% while the south will grow to 23% -- and the northern counties will explode to 48% of the total metro population! Perhaps Andrea was closer to the truth than many believed...

[Teshadoh]

^ She may be correct but not according to the ARC just a few years ago.

[SteveD]

Marketswork, I stand by my posts. The totals you include for north metro counties include Cobb and Gwinnett. As I described above, ALL of Cobb, and about 90 percent of Gwinnett, are south of Alpharetta, as are most or all of 24 of 28 of the metro counties. So, the "center of population" is clearly nowhere near that. Sandy Springs? Maybe a little closer to the actual center of population, but, by my estimation, still too far north.

[MarketsWork]

I don't think anybody is arguing that the literal geographic center of Atlanta's population is actually located in Alpharetta. But when nearly fifty percent of the area's residents live north of the Perimeter and only about 20% live south of the center, I believe Andrea is correct in saying that Alpharetta is more typical of Atlanta than the actual geographic core is. At least that's how I interpreted her post.

[Andrea]

I don't think anybody is arguing that the literal geographic center of Atlanta's population is actually located in Alpharetta. But when nearly fifty percent of the area's residents live north of the Perimeter and only about 20% live south of the center, I believe Andrea is correct in saying that Alpharetta is more typical of Atlanta than the actual geographic core is. At least that's how I interpreted her post.

MarketsWork, my hero! :worship: Yes, that is what I was trying to say.

[SteveD]

I don't think anybody is arguing that the literal geographic center of Atlanta's population is actually located in Alpharetta. But when nearly fifty percent of the area's residents live north of the Perimeter and only about 20% live south of the center, I believe Andrea is correct in saying that Alpharetta is more typical of Atlanta than the actual geographic core is. At least that's how I interpreted her post.

Well, actually, yes, that's precisely the discussion we were having. There's no need to beat this into the ground, but, the discussion we were having was not what was "more typical of Atlanta", it was "where is the center of the metro population". Andrea's statement that the Arts venue opening in Alpharetta brought it closer to the center of population gave a couple of us pause. There's a big difference between the top of the perimeter and Alpharetta. I doubt that the center of population has moved northward all the way to the top end of 285 yet. Perhaps in another decade or two, but not yet.

[RobMidtowner]

I don't think anybody is arguing that the literal geographic center of Atlanta's population is actually located in Alpharetta. But when nearly fifty percent of the area's residents live north of the Perimeter and only about 20% live south of the center, I believe Andrea is correct in saying that Alpharetta is more typical of Atlanta than the actual geographic core is. At least that's how I interpreted her post.

How is Alpharetta more typical of Atlanta when it's not even in the city??? :shrug:

[SteveD]

MarketsWork, my hero! :worship: Yes, that is what I was trying to say.

OK..then you and I were discussing different things. That can happen sometimes on a discussion forum. I wasn't talking about what is typical for Atlanta, I was talking about where it's population center is.

[Andrea]

Steve, yes, I understood your point and you are right.

[john3eblover]

i love discussion about population. I think Steve should just start his own thread, and just post nothing but thoughts on population. With a lot of input from other people.

[SteveD]

Ha! John...I agree! I'm fascinated by it! I've actually started several population threads over the past couple years, and invariably they all get moved to the United States section, which nobody ever looks at! :(

[Trae]

Ha! John...I agree! I'm fascinated by it! I've actually started several population threads over the past couple years, and invariably they all get moved to the United States section, which nobody ever looks at! :(

They are pretty interesting when they are in the City Discussions, but once they go to the United States section, it is the end for that thread.

[Fiorenza]

Trae, you're looking tuff in that avitar there.

[DoteDote]

Anyone know what's going on with the roof at 1100 Peachtree? Check the 12th & Midtown webcam (http://www.oxblue.com/client/brasfieldgorrie/1010midtown/). Beginning around 1pm Thursday afternoon, 1/3/2008, it appears some people are walking around the roof, tearing it out. By 5pm on Friday, the roof looks like it was hit by a tornado. Just curious about it.

[gttx]

I saw that today as well. My bet is that they're cleaning it, however they go about doing that.

[sabino86]

I saw that today as well. My bet is that they're cleaning it, however they go about doing that.

If you look at the nightshots of the webcam, the holes are pretty lit up

[NativeAtlantan]

Thanks, everyone, for backing me up. I remember debating this with Andrea a while back and here she is - at it again ;-)

[Behind_Phips]

Hey everyone - A New Project!

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4854/lindberghz5.jpg

I remember when I first moved here three years ago I thought the whole Lindberg area was a complete shit hole. My how three years have changed this area.

Anyway, this is a $80 Million development from Lance Co. and The Dawson Co. The project is on Garson Drive and Piedmont Road. The development will consist of 350 "ultra-luxury" apartments and 65,000 sqf of retail. A Publix is rumored to be anchoring the complex.

In other news, Sembler's Lindberg Plaza will be starting a second phase with a Kroger taking space.

This area is on fire.

[Terminus]

Hey everyone - A New Project!

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4854/lindberghz5.jpg

I remember when I first moved here three years ago I thought the whole Lindberg area was a complete shit hole. My how three years have changed this area.

Anyway, this is a $80 Million development from Lance Co. and The Dawson Co. The project is on Garson Drive and Piedmont Road. The development will consist of 350 "ultra-luxury" apartments and 65,000 sqf of retail. A Publix is rumored to be anchoring the complex.

In other news, Sembler's Lindberg Plaza will be starting a second phase with a Kroger taking space.

This area is on fire.

I am so pleased with how far Publix has come in terms of creating truly urban stores. My friends and I used to call them "the whore" because around 1998they came into town with suburban junk initially (Piedmont Avenue, North Avenue, Westside Village) and had eyes on basically blanketing intown with 28-30K sf smaller models of the same thing they'd build in Gwinnett. Fortunately, they are now doing some great stores that enrich city life, rather than kill it.

[smArTaLlone]

Hey everyone - A New Project!

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4854/lindberghz5.jpg

This area is on fire.


Technically they've been working on redeveloping that land since '05 but its nice to see something moving forward. The original plan called for 400 apartments, 275 townhomes, 115 townhouses, 600 units in an 18-story highrise, and 100,000 square feet of retail.

[Behind_Phips]

Buckhead Hilton

http://daycp.com/images/buckhead_hilton.jpg

We are currently under contract to purchase 5+/- acres on Peachtree in Buckhead with Sandcastle Resorts, our development partner. Development plans include a 360 room Hilton Hotel and 50 condominium units along with a 450 unit residential tower.

[Behind_Phips]

I like it. Thank god we did not get another all glass tower. It does look like they reduced the number of condos.