Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[korzym]

*Newest Videos, High Definition*
All of the following are made by me, and are my property
Tsuut'ina Trail - Calgary SW Ring Road
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construction starts in April...complete in november 2009. Update: Currently some outlets are claiming November 1st, 2009 as the opening date. A forum member personally spoke to the transport minister at a recent community meeting and he said the premier will be at a ribbon cutting ceremony on November 2nd.

The Alberta government has signed a 30-year contract with the Stoney Trail Group to design, build, operate and partially finance Stoney Trail from its junction with Deerfoot Trail to 17 Avenue SE. The contract also includes maintenance of Stoney Trail NW from its junction with Deerfoot Trail to 16 Avenue NW.

Total length is 21 kilometres.

Six-lane sections from Deerfoot Trail to Metis Trail (44 Street NE) and McKnight Boulevard to 16 Avenue NE. Other sections are four-lane.

Interchanges at Deerfoot Trail, Metis Trail, Country Hills Boulevard, Airport Trail, McKnight Boulevard, and 16 Avenue NE.

Signalized t-intersection at 17 Avenue SE. An interchange will be built when Stoney Trail is extended south of 17 Avenue SE.

Construction of two new railway bridge structures and rehabilitation of two existing railway bridge structures.

Open house is March 29 from 2 to 8 pm at Sunridge Mall

Speed limits:
NE: 100 km/h at first, then 110 km/h around 2015
NW: 80 km/h or 60 km/h depending on construction zones. 100 km/h from bedington to deerfoot
SE & SW: TBD, indications that by 2015 it will be 110 km/h



Government Website with diagrams & pictures:
http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/804.htm

Chinook Roads Partnership website [the SE portion, under construction]:
http://www.sestproject.ca/photo-gallery

[GoflamesGo]

Is there any word on when any of the other extensions are going to be finished. for example stony trail in the SW, or SE?

[JBinCalgary]

good news, its a start

[ctown.myth]

Great! Now we just need one going east to west :D!

[You Need A Thneed]

I hope they create a Metis Trail/Airport Trail connection at the same time or sooner. It is silly that you have to drive on what is basically a country road to get up north to Deerfoot or Country Hills from the north-of-McKnight communities.

[Calgarian]

this will free up traffic for about a year, then it will cause more gridlock.

[mersar]

Metis Tr. will be connected (map (http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType490/production/P-3247-35.pdf))

The SW connection is a bit out, they are still neogotiating with the Tsuu Tina and the environmentalists are always going to be against it. I wouldn't expect to see that component for another decade at least. Even the stretch from 16th to Highway 8 is a ways off. The SE leg we'll likely see soon after the NE part is built.

[skytowers]

I wish environmentalists would get their heads out of their arse. It's a lot more environmentally unfriendly in the long haul to have thousands of vehicles idling and slowly moving through underdeveloped roads than it is to build routes to take people away from these problem areas.

[Wooster]

wow, I'm so excited.

I just hope this does help revitalize 16th, like some people seem to think.

[You Need A Thneed]

wow, I'm so excited.

I just hope this does help revitalize 16th, like some people seem to think.

This, and the improvements on 16th itself (whenever they are done) should do a lot to revitalize 16th ave. I'm glad the city decided to add the nice landscaping along that stretch. I think the city want to increase density along that stretch too, the most density being right around the mojor intersections.

[chuber]

Good to see this starting!

This gives those of us from Edmonton heading to Banff (or further into BC) another way of bypassing the city and traffic.

Plus it will help me with my trips to Calgary since most of the people I visit are all in new suburbs each on different sides of the city. lol

[niwell]

As much as I hate Freeways, this is by and large a good thing. Truck traffic really needs to be rerouted around the city, as it 16th avenue is completely unsuited for it. Now all we need is for some major improvements along 16th, including higher densities. I'm thinking it could make a perfect urban boulevard, fronted by low - midrise buildings. The 16th/centre st. intersection has particular potential.

[You Need A Thneed]

This gives those of us from Edmonton heading to Banff (or further into BC) another way of bypassing the city and traffic.

This road won't really help you do that, unless you like driving through more of the city than you had to before.

THE NW part of the ring road would help you out though. It'll be done next year.

[Me&You]

The SW section is taking waaaaaay too long. I say get negotiations done with the tsu-tina by Sept, or go around them. Use access to the new casino as a bargaining chip; no ring road, no casino access...

[skrish]

The SW section is taking waaaaaay too long. I say get negotiations done with the tsu-tina by Sept, or go around them. Use access to the new casino as a bargaining chip; no ring road, no casino access...

:yes: They should have done that from the beginning

[Me&You]

:yes: They should have done that from the beginning

And I hit "submit" wondering how soon it would be until I got jumped on for my harsh opinion... so far, so good!

[chenmau]

And I hit "submit" wondering how soon it would be until I got jumped on for my harsh opinion... so far, so good!

They were naive not to do it from the beginning

[ProudlyCanadian]

I'm really only worried about the SW portion and how it will interact with the Weaselhead, arguably one of the most important natural areas in Calgary.

[mersar]

My biggest concern over what has been proposed for the SW is the part that will require relocating part of the river (yes, they want to move the river) just so they can build a bridge easier. The logic behind why they'd take this approach is beyond me, since I can't imagine any scenario where this could not cause harm to the river versus spending a bit more on a bridge.

[chuber]

This road won't really help you do that, unless you like driving through more of the city than you had to before.

THE NW part of the ring road would help you out though. It'll be done next year.

I was refering to the NW portion. Although I didn't realize they weren't working on both at the same time.

[mersar]

At the pace the NW is going, and the schedule for the NE its quite possible that both will be opening within months of each other (currently NW is fall 2008, and the NE is fall 2009). If there are any more delays on the NW its quite possible that it may be summer 2009 instead. The NE is more likely to be done on time since it is a P3.

[Wooster]

As much as I hate Freeways, this is by and large a good thing. Truck traffic really needs to be rerouted around the city, as it 16th avenue is completely unsuited for it. Now all we need is for some major improvements along 16th, including higher densities. I'm thinking it could make a perfect urban boulevard, fronted by low - midrise buildings. The 16th/centre st. intersection has particular potential.

Yeah, I totally agree with this.

[Innersoul1]

I still say bridge over the Weaselhead. There has to be a way of doing this with minimal impact on the area. I am thinking of the Stoney Trail bridge over the Bow right near Bowness, very little impact on the river valley below.

Negotiations and "studies" with Tsu Tina have proved fruitless! It could be forever before that stretch is completed.

[Beltliner]

I still say bridge over the Weaselhead. .../It could be forever before that stretch is completed.

If Calgary's winter 2007 economic outlook (http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_422356_0_0_18/quarterly_economic_outlook_winter_2007.pdf) is any guide, it won't matter all that much if the southwest leg takes a little while. The plan at this stage seems to envision completion of the northeast leg by 2009, and then the southeast leg by 2013. Even if the Stoney Trail Group has an eye to starting the Tsuu T'ina leg straight after finishing the east side of the 201, that's at least six years away. And chances are, they'll try for the extension to Sarcee Trail and the Stoney extension from 16 Avenue to Glenmore first.

That being said, it would be nice to have a little certainty about the route for Sarcee Trail through Tsuu T'ina territory. And between the casino and the big box lands slated for Sarcee and Southland, the Tsuu T'ina have a certain level of incentive for striking a deal. Would that some orbital LRT was being planned as a part of this operation!

[Bad Grizzly]

The NE section getting underway is great news IMO. We should see positive change on 16th ave, once that section is complete.

[Champion3]

I hope they create a Metis Trail/Airport Trail connection at the same time or sooner. It is silly that you have to drive on what is basically a country road to get up north to Deerfoot or Country Hills from the north-of-McKnight communities.
They're going to need to build a tunnel to carry Airport Trail under the new runway that is going to be built.

[You Need A Thneed]

They're going to need to build a tunnel to carry Airport Trail under the new runway that is going to be built.

Yes, but it doesn't neccesarily have to be a tunnel now. Perhaps they should do the grading now, and put the road in the right place, ready to be covered up when the runway goes ahead. I imagine it would take a little bit of a different design then regular design.

Either that or build it like a detour road right now, and build the tunnel beside it later, but then of course, you have to pay for building the road twice.

It'll be a long tunnel, but it'll be relatively easy to construct, since it'll be easy to do cut and cover construction, since there is nothing around there, just lots of open space. No expensive long distance soil hauling to do. I wonder how deep they need to make it?

[Jay in Cowtown]

This gives those of us from Edmonton heading to Banff (or further into BC) another way of bypassing the city and traffic.

If I were you, I'd get off #2 at the Olds overpass and take #27 west to #22 south then west again at the Cochrane overpass onto #1, when heading to Banff or B.C. from the Chuck... at least untill Stoney's done

[Champion3]

Yes, but it doesn't neccesarily have to be a tunnel now. Perhaps they should do the grading now, and put the road in the right place, ready to be covered up when the runway goes ahead.
Nonetheless, that isn't City-owned land, and I'm sure the Airport doesn't want the City building a road across their future runway and then failing to bury it when the time comes to build the runway. (Not to mention that there already is jurisdictional squabbling over who should pay for Airport Trail across YYC land.) Then you've got what will presumably be a heavily used expressway that is blocking construction of a runway.

[KrisYYC]

Can somebody answer me this, because I'm not totally sure:

Why is it that these projects seem to take so bloody long in Calgary? LRT expansion, ring road construction, all with seemingly ridiculous time frames. Is it primarliy a funding issue? Other cities with far greater geographical challenges have built entire subway networks etc. in less time.

It just seems to me that while all of these projects are great right now, by the time they're completed it'll be too little too late. I suppose the labour shortage doesn't help either.

Kris

[Boris2k7]

^ It's more political will than anything else. One government would love to pass off some of the work to another government, and vice versa. For example, the City would just love for the province to complete upgrades to Deerfoot before the Ring Road is done and Deerfoot transfers to the City. Road widenings, as useless as they are, buy far more votes than LRT construction (at least that may be the case right now).

[mersar]

Two words: Labour shortage

Thats the primary reason for the delay, funding is secure for the projects that are underway.

[walli]

error .....

[freeweed]

Two words: Labour shortage

Thats the primary reason for the delay, funding is secure for the projects that are underway.

Two more words: poor planning.

When the labour was there, the city/province weren't spending a dime. Suddenly, OMG WE NEED TO BUILD STUFF NOW set in - in the middle of the worst labour shortage in Canadian history.

[Doug]

^And when the labor was there, the exisiting infrastructure are more than adequate. Nobody in their wildest dreams expected the city to grow like it has.

[freeweed]

^And when the labor was there, the exisiting infrastructure are more than adequate. Nobody in their wildest dreams expected the city to grow like it has.

Plans for the ring road, LRT expansions, GE5, McKnight free-flow, <<insert project here>> were all on the books years before the current boom.

We may not have expected as much growth, but certainly you're not suggesting that the only reason we need to expand the C-Train is the past couple of years of insanity.

Hell, the WLRT was planned in the 1980s. The areas it will service were built decades ago. There's a big difference between building for the future (which is what should have been done) and maybe going a bit overboard, and completely doing nothing until things get completely out of control (which is what has happened).

[Rob D]

Ring road leaves business owners feeling trapped
Renata D'Aliesio Calgary Herald Thursday, March 29, 2007

A group of Calgary business owners is calling for a redesign of the northeast ring road, contending changes to construction plans will leave them isolated. The owners intend to confront the province and its private partner in the development, the Stoney Trail Group, at an open house today in the centre court of Sunridge Mall. Earlier government plans for the ring road included several access points for businesses and residents along 84th Street N.E. -- the city's eastern boundary.

But late in the fall, Hugh Short of Hi-Hog Farm & Ranch Equipment learned those access points had been scaled back, which will force vehicles coming in and out of his business to travel a roundabout route. He's worried this added obstacle will hurt his and other businesses. "There has been no thought about the businesses and residents that this proposal has completely landlocked," he charged Wednesday. "Essentially, they have cut off any link to the city for us."

Plans for the Calgary ring road have been in the works for years, said Jerry Bellikka, spokesman for Alberta Infrastructure and Transportation. He said the province has consulted businesses and city officials extensively, and all aspects of the project have been considered. "We did open houses for three years. We're a little late in the process for a redesign," Bellikka said.
"I'm just surprised those concerns are coming forward now, especially from city hall. "City hall has been on board with this project," said Bellikka. Not all members of city council have been on board with the Alberta government's ring road designs. Every leg of the road being built to ease traffic pressure has been contested.

Mayor Dave Bronconnier has been a strong supporter of the road, which will eventually encircle Calgary and steer traffic away from increasingly congested routes such as Deerfoot Trail and 16th Avenue N. Several alderman, however, have raised concerns about aspects of the plan. Ald. Helen Larocque and Ald. Andre Chabot said Wednesday they share the access concerns of businesses and residents in the northeast.

Construction of this 21-kilometre section of the project is slated to begin next month. Both aldermen continue to seek a redesign. "It's very problematic for those businesses on 84th Street," Larocque said. Bellikka said today's open house, which runs from 2 to 8 p.m. at Sunridge Mall, is part of the province's continuing effort to inform residents of the project. Last month, the Alberta government announced it had reached a public-private partnership agreement to build the northeast leg. Larry Graham, owner of Graham Auctions, said original plans led businesses to believe they would still have access to routes such as McKnight Boulevard and an extended 32nd Street. Once the ring road is built, however, vehicles will no longer be able to reach these roads or the Trans-Canada Highway directly from 84th Street N.E., Graham said.

Chabot said residents of a mobile home park, destined to be sandwiched between the ring road and 84th, are worried about potential delays for emergency workers. Calgary's northeast is home to several sour gas wells.
"When you are talking about EMS, fire and police, seconds matter," Chabot said. "Why should we (the city) be the ones holding the bag?
"We need to look at this longer term."

rdaliesio@theherald.canwest.com

© The Calgary Herald 2007

[You Need A Thneed]

^All those businesses there built there knowing the the Ring road would eventually go through, and then there was going to be a lot less traffic on 84th Street. That being said, it's going to be a pain to access 84th street in some places - I've thought that perhaps that they should add a couple of flyovers over the Ring road at Memorial, and perhaps 32nd Ave. Once more development gets going on the east side of the ring road, they are going to want a connection to the rest of the city more often then every 2 miles.

[Deepstar]

Is this ring road really going to be completed by 2009? It seems like wishful thinking to me.
I'm glad to se it's actually getting built though. We need this, and so does 16th ave. I'm hoping for a big improvement to 16th when this is done.

[walli]

^All those businesses there built there knowing the the Ring road would eventually go through, and then there was going to be a lot less traffic on 84th Street.

I agree completely. The individual businesses are just being selfish about it.

[YYCguys]

I'm surprised that Memorial isn't being extended out to the ring road. People coming into the core from Chestermere, etc would have the added option of TCH to Ring Road to Memorial (Memorial east of 36th Street is rarely busy, it seems, so this would be a good alternate route).

Perhaps they could build Memorial under the Ring Road to 84 and do the same with 32nd Ave NE, with no ring road access but at least connecting 84th to the city via those 2 routes.

[Doug]

Plans for the ring road, LRT expansions, GE5, McKnight free-flow, <<insert project here>> were all on the books years before the current boom.

They were and they had time horizons of as much as 30 years. The city has already hit population milestones a decade ahead of even the high growth planning scenaris.

[YYCguys]

These business owners aren't seeing the bigger picture. More people will travel along a freeway than on a substandard road like 84th, so the ring road could actually increase the visibility of these businesses and bring in more customers. Perhaps they should set up a meeting with business owners backing onto the Deerfoot and get the opinions of them.

Looking on the other side of the coin, however, I am a bit surprised that the ring road route didn't take an 84th Street alignment. Then there could have been access to the businesses and mobile home park from within the communities themselves.

[The Chemist]

Who else here thinks they'll finish the east side of the ring road down to Deerfoot/22X as soon as they finish the current stretch to 17th? I'd be very suprised if that didn't happen, because doing that would basically make a 3/4 ring that would allow heavy truck traffic to bypass the city both North to South and East To West, taking significant traffic off of both Deerfoot and 16th Avenue.

[You Need A Thneed]

These business owners aren't seeing the bigger picture. More people will travel along a freeway than on a substandard road like 84th, so the ring road could actually increase the visibility of these businesses and bring in more customers. Perhaps they should set up a meeting with business owners backing onto the Deerfoot and get the opinions of them.

Looking on the other side of the coin, however, I am a bit surprised that the ring road route didn't take an 84th Street alignment. Then there could have been access to the businesses and mobile home park from within the communities themselves.

All of those businesses and the mobile home park would have been further away had the right-of-way been aligned with 84th. the right-of-way has been determined for many years already - that why all the communities (coral Springs, Monterry Park, Abbeydale, Applewood) to the west of the right of way didn't build any further out.

84th has seen a lot of upgrades, and is hardly substandard any longer, maybe a bit narrow, but any extra lanes added would have been way overkill once the ring road is built - at least for a while until more development occurs.

[You Need A Thneed]

Who else here thinks they'll finish the east side of the ring road down to Deerfoot/22X as soon as they finish the current stretch to 17th? I'd be very suprised if that didn't happen, because doing that would basically make a 3/4 ring that would allow heavy truck traffic to bypass the city both North to South and East To West, taking significant traffic off of both Deerfoot and 16th Avenue.

If the economy in Alberta stays as hot as it is, the rest of the East Freeway will start no later then when the NE section finishes, IMHO. The 3/4 ring would be very useful, that will take lots of truck traffic off of Deerfoot, which just the north half wouldn't do yet.

[Doug]

I agree that the southern section of the East Freeway will likely proceed as soon as the northern section opens. I've also heard rumors of the the ring road being moved from 22X to a more southerly alignment.

[The Chemist]

I agree that the southern section of the East Freeway will likely proceed as soon as the northern section opens. I've also heard rumors of the the ring road being moved from 22X to a more southerly alignment.

They should move it to 196th so that it directly serves the new south hospital, if they're going to move the alignment.

[Doug]

I herad they were looking at an alignment south of the Deerfoot-Highway 2 split. Regardless, any aligment would require a new bridge across the Bow.

[You Need A Thneed]

I've also heard rumors of the the ring road being moved from 22X to a more southerly alignment.

I doubt it. There is a wide right-of-way at 22x. I doubt there's much of a right-of-way protected at 196th. Cranston and Lake Chapperal are set way back from the road.

Plus any further southening (I think I just made up a word) of that stretch just makes the ring longer, and thus more expensive, and it would take more time to drive around it.

There are plans (more distant future) for the east freeway and Stoney Trail to be extended further south as freeways, though.

In related news:
I'm sure many people already know, but the Bridge over the Bow River on HWY 22x is being twinned, starting this year, according to the city's website.

[freeweed]

They were and they had time horizons of as much as 30 years. The city has already hit population milestones a decade ahead of even the high growth planning scenaris.

Those horizons were set in the 1980s. Seriously.

The City pretty much stalled all infrastructure work for years, even when it was clear that the bust was over, the city was growing, and this work was sorely needed. Now they're trying to play catch up in just about the worst labour market to do it in.

Ah well, it's still easier to get around in Calgary (driving or transit) than in many other large Canadian cities. :yes:

[korzym]

They've already started work on it. between 16th ave and mcknight. They've grated three stretches...I must have seen about 3-4 earth movers and a bunch of trucks...we'll see if I can take some pictures later. not a spectacular view...just a yellow farm field with three black stretches and the earth movers working..I'll still try and see if I can get those pics later.

[mersar]

The bridge on 22x over the bow was actually started on initially last year, but it should be completed late this fall if I recall the timeline.

[freeweed]

They've already started work on it. between 16th ave and mcknight. They've grated three stretches...I must have seen about 3-4 earth movers and a bunch of trucks...we'll see if I can take some pictures later. not a spectacular view...just a yellow farm field with three black stretches and the earth movers working..I'll still try and see if I can get those pics later.

On that note, anyone who gets a chance to fly in or out of Calgary in the next little while should try to snap a photo of it. The NW ring road is MASSIVE right now, and entirely unpaved - but the whole thing is graded and looks pretty impressive from the air (for those of us that drive, anyway :haha: ).

I imagine the NE sections will look similar in a few weeks/months if they're going as fast as it looks. They typically have the roads nearly done (laid out and graded, anyway) long before bridgework even starts.

[korzym]

On that note, anyone who gets a chance to fly in or out of Calgary in the next little while should try to snap a photo of it. The NW ring road is MASSIVE right now, and entirely unpaved - but the whole thing is graded and looks pretty impressive from the air (for those of us that drive, anyway :haha: ).

I imagine the NE sections will look similar in a few weeks/months if they're going as fast as it looks. They typically have the roads nearly done (laid out and graded, anyway) long before bridgework even starts.

indeed. wow, I haven't been to the NW in a while...should visit friends then go ring road sight seeing lol
I thought they weren't going to start this for 2 years..these pics from last summer look extremely impressive

http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType490/images/stm_b-d-p7.jpg
http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType490/images/stm_b-d-p8.jpg
http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType490/images/stm_b-d-p9.jpg

[Innersoul1]

Yeah, saw those exact angles when I was landing on Saturday, I was really quite impressed with the progress!

[Doug]

Those horizons were set in the 1980s. Seriously.

The City pretty much stalled all infrastructure work for years, even when it was clear that the bust was over, the city was growing, and this work was sorely needed. Now they're trying to play catch up in just about the worst labour market to do it in.

Ah well, it's still easier to get around in Calgary (driving or transit) than in many other large Canadian cities. :yes:

No they are from mid 90's planning initaitves like the 1995 GoPlan.

[freeweed]

No they are from mid 90's planning initaitves like the 1995 GoPlan.

Someone in here has already posted seeing info and planning on the WLRT back in the mid-80s.

Hell, there was a long "cancelled Calgary projects" thread just a little while back - it wasn't just the city, it was private development too. Other than new suburbs, there seems to be nothing much built in this city between the mid-80s and 2000 or so. All the time the city was growing, too.

[You Need A Thneed]

New more detailed plans of the NE ring road now on the Alberta Infrastructure Website:

Link (http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType490/production/P3_east_gp.htm)

[toddburns]

very nice, starting in forest lawn first right? near 17 ave se?

[mersar]

They've started work along parts of the route already, mainly on the eastern portion and where they haven't started they will be starting soon since most, if not all, the roads that cross the route have been detoured or closed completely as of last week. The rest they will be closing later this summer.

[YYCguys]

They've started work along parts of the route already, mainly on the eastern portion and where they haven't started they will be starting soon since most, if not all, the roads that cross the route have been detoured or closed completely as of last week. The rest they will be closing later this summer.

Barlow Trail north of Country Hills is closing in early July. Boohoo! That's the route I take to/from Airdrie when the Deerfoot is stinkin' conjested! Now what do I do?

Apparantly the Barlow closure north of CHB is turning into a business park.

[SunCoaster]

Stoney Trail NW will make for a great bypass of most of the NW Calgary traffic ... particularly for Edmontonians headed to Banff ... mind you the downside is the bypass will also mean bypassing Pete's Drive In which is an important dietary pitstop when driving from Edmonton to Banff ;)

[polishavenger]

Can anyone explain to me the rationale behind the huge loops with wide turning radius' in these new interchange configuration. Would it not make more sense from a safety and economic perspective to have a more gradual arch to the flyovers?

[You Need A Thneed]

Can anyone explain to me the rationale behind the huge loops with wide turning radius' in these new interchange configuration. Would it not make more sense from a safety and economic perspective to have a more gradual arch to the flyovers?

Polish, I'm not understanding exactly what you are asking.

[mersar]

I think he's referring to the loops such as from Northbound Stoney to 16th Ave NE, and on the Deerfoot interchange where the ramp goes way out to the right, then way past the interchange, then back in again.

[You Need A Thneed]

I think he's referring to the loops such as from Northbound Stoney to 16th Ave NE, and on the Deerfoot interchange where the ramp goes way out to the right, then way past the interchange, then back in again.

The radii are huge to keep the desing speed limit high - for freeway to freeway connection. They do the curves like that for economy of grading - and because retaining walls are expensive to build - they angle the roads away instead of keeping them directly beside the main road because they need to have the room for the slopes.

[polishavenger]

The radii are huge to keep the desing speed limit high - for freeway to freeway connection. They do the curves like that for economy of grading - and because retaining walls are expensive to build - they angle the roads away instead of keeping them directly beside the main road because they need to have the room for the slopes.

The freeways in the U.S seem to have more intelligent interchanges, with flyovers that retain a gradual curve (the ones in the proposed ring road interchanges are really sharp and reduce speeds), something along the lines of what is being built at Mcknight.

[tarapoto]

I hope they can ban semi trucks from the Deerfoot after the ringroad is complete. It's ridiculous to drive to work during rush hour and get stuck boxed in by four double length trucks in front, behind and beside. It's happened to me several times

[mersar]

Won't happen. Deerfoot is a provincial highway, and is intended to be used as the main north-south truck route, something the ring road will not change. Restricting trucks to some extent from using 16th avenue though is more realistic to happen.

The freeways in the U.S seem to have more intelligent interchanges, with flyovers that retain a gradual curve (the ones in the proposed ring road interchanges are really sharp and reduce speeds), something along the lines of what is being built at Mcknight.

Yep, which is why I don't get those new interchanges, although I suspect that the design they are using was chosen more for cost (cheaper to build a single tiered bridge, then a two tiered bridge with the upper level at twice the height). I can understand that design being used for the 16th avenue one since they are only building 1/2 the interchange right now and the rest later, at which point lanes get re-arrange anyways, but not for a full interchange like the Deerfoot one.

[The Chemist]

The Deerfoot-Stoney interchange doesn't look too problematic to me - the flyovers look like they aren't too sharply curved. Of course, there are a couple of cloverleaf loops which could be a problem, though.

[You Need A Thneed]

The Deerfoot-Stoney interchange doesn't look too problematic to me - the flyovers look like they aren't too sharply curved. Of course, there are a couple of cloverleaf loops which could be a problem, though.
The cloverleaf loops shouldn't be a problem, those are the two "left turns" with the least traffic, plus they are still well separated from the main traffic flow.

The flyovers are probobly designed so you don't have to slow down.

[lubicon]

The cloverleaf loops shouldn't be a problem, those are the two "left turns" with the least traffic, plus they are still well separated from the main traffic flow.

The flyovers are probobly designed so you don't have to slow down.

That may be true, but anybody who drives in Calgary just knows that most idiots will still slow down to a snail's pace anyway.:hell: :hell:

[Riise]

That may be true, but anybody who drives in Calgary just knows that most idiots will still slow down to a snail's pace anyway.:hell: :hell:

And those stupid suggested speed limit signs don't help either!

[polishavenger]

everyone keeps saying how the flyovers are designed so traffic doesnt have to slow down. This is the exact opposite of what will happen when these interchanges are built. Has anyone driven the deerfoot barlow trail interchange? Try not slowing down when exiting off deerfoot onto north bound barlow. That ramp is horribly sharp, and that is the same design used on the ring road.

[You Need A Thneed]

everyone keeps saying how the flyovers are designed so traffic doesnt have to slow down. This is the exact opposite of what will happen when these interchanges are built. Has anyone driven the deerfoot barlow trail interchange? Try not slowing down when exiting off deerfoot onto north bound barlow. That ramp is horribly sharp, and that is the same design used on the ring road.

Barlow isn't a freeway though, it's speed limit isn't 100 anyway, so you are going to have to slow down sooner or later either way. I don't have any actual numbers, but I'd imagine that the radii or the ring road flyover ramps are greater then the Deerfoot/Barlow one.

[polishavenger]

Barlow isn't a freeway though, it's speed limit isn't 100 anyway, so you are going to have to slow down sooner or later either way. I don't have any actual numbers, but I'd imagine that the radii or the ring road flyover ramps are greater then the Deerfoot/Barlow one.

I think people are missing my point. The barlow/deerfoot interchange looks like it utilizes basically the same curve as the proposed ring road interchanges, which has a very pronounced and sharp curve. Many of the major freeway intersections in the United States utilize a significantly more gradual curve, which anectotally seem to take up less space, and provide a gentler transition from one road way to the next.

[You Need A Thneed]

I think people are missing my point. The barlow/deerfoot interchange looks like it utilizes basically the same curve as the proposed ring road interchanges, which has a very pronounced and sharp curve. Many of the major freeway intersections in the United States utilize a significantly more gradual curve, which anectotally seem to take up less space, and provide a gentler transition from one road way to the next.

No, I get exactly what you are saying. I'd be surprised if the ring road loops were as sharp as the barlow one, since barlow isn't a freeway. But I don't have any exact numbers or anything, so I could be wrong.

The ramp wouldn't have to take up much more space to make a huge difference. At barlow, they used up all the room that was available.

[korzym]

http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgPrecast_Yard.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lg100T_Trucks_returning_for_loading.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgAbutment_Pile_Installation.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgAuger.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgD10_Dozer_Stripping_Topsoil.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgExcavation_Segment_2.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgScraper_Excavation%20_Segment_2.jpg

just north of 16th:
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgSegment_2.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgStraddle_Lift_Set_up.jpg
http://www.stoneytrailgroup.ca/media/lgStraddle_Lifts.jpg

[mersar]

Thanks for the updates, good to see the progress thats already been made!

[freeweed]

:previous: Yeah, for anyone that's curious, check out some of the intersections already being done - at McKnight (well where it becomes a range rd), at Shaganappi, at Deerfoot, at Country hills...

The ring road is actually happening! Not just 16th Ave NW anymore! :tup:

[The Geographer]

No they are from mid 90's planning initaitves like the 1995 GoPlan.

Even without the boom Calgary needed much of the infrastructure to handle the population that existed in the 90s. And besides, LRT should be put in before communities are built so as to influence the kind of development that occurs. For instance, Shawnessy and Crowfoot were meant to be major employment centres containing thousands of office jobs. The transit wasn't there though, so all that developed in Crowfoot was bloody car dealerships and Shawnessy is a big-box mess.

It is called a positive feedback loop, and it is why the idea of governments waiting for demand to warrant long-term planning projects is ludicrous. If an LRT gets to a community 40 years after it is built, after the majority of the residents are retired and no longer commuting regularly, and after the built environment has been influenced by government-funded road-building (itself not a market-driven phenomenon) then it is less effective.

The Crowfoot station should have been built in the mid-1990s when it was still possible to create a viable employment centre there rather than a bloody automall.

[Deepstar]

Thanks for those photo updates Korzym! I hadn't realized that the ring road was that far along.

[Riise]

Even without the boom Calgary needed much of the infrastructure to handle the population that existed in the 90s. And besides, LRT should be put in before communities are built so as to influence the kind of development that occurs...

That's why I believe the ring road should have an LRT running in its median, or at least a reserved ROW. No matter how much Bronconcrete talks about quasi-sustainable development it's only a matter of time before we see new communities sprouting up beyond the ring road, that is where they haven't already...

[Arch26]

That's why I believe the ring road should have an LRT running in its median, or at least a reserved ROW. No matter how much Bronconcrete talks about quasi-sustainable development it's only a matter of time before we see new communities sprouting up beyond the ring road, that is where they haven't already...

Building rapid transit of any kind in such a low d part of the city is futile. Better not to end up with such low density in the first place IMO. A reserved ROW for BRT or future LRT? I could see that. That said, an "LRT ring" would definitely be nice to have one day to facilitate better travel between areas other than downtown, but I see that being more feasible as a ring around the inner city, or perhaps the inner suburbs...

[The Geographer]

Building rapid transit of any kind in such a low d part of the city is futile. Better not to end up with such low density in the first place IMO. A reserved ROW for BRT or future LRT? I could see that. That said, an "LRT ring" would definitely be nice to have one day to facilitate better travel between areas other than downtown, but I see that being more feasible as a ring around the inner city, or perhaps the inner suburbs...

Not necessarily... the reason this stuff gets built on the outskirts in the first place is due to lower land values and an almost complete lack of NIMBYs. That is the advantage of putting transit in first and building the new communities around it. No one lives there yet, so the city and developers can TOD themselves silly and experiment with all sorts of new employment centre opportunities.

Look at the fuss in Varsity Estates over a very sensitively designed residential TOD... now imagine trying to cut an LRT line with corresponding development through an entire generation of older suburbs with politically vocal residents.

[Claeren]

LRT in the ring road is the least of our worries!!

We need better W, SE, N-Central (plus airport spur line) and downtown/beltline service before we need to spend one penny on a Ring Road route - and even then i could come up with another half dozen better routes to focus on.



Claeren.

[The Geographer]

LRT in the ring road is the least of our worries!!

We need better W, SE, N-Central (plus airport spur line) and downtown/beltline service before we need to spend one penny on a Ring Road route - and even then i could come up with another half dozen better routes to focus on.



Claeren.

I agree that the present radial system is more important. In fact, my main point is that it should have been completed to the edge of the city before development made it there. Slightly higher taxes? Maybe... but it would have completely reshaped the way Calgary developed and would have been a long-term economic coup.

[Riise]

Building rapid transit of any kind in such a low d part of the city is futile. Better not to end up with such low density in the first place IMO. A reserved ROW for BRT or future LRT? I could see that. That said, an "LRT ring" would definitely be nice to have one day to facilitate better travel between areas other than downtown...

If you look at my Northern Cross line (below) that I drew up a while back you can see where portions of the median LRT can be built. If the rest was reserved as an ROW the city could slowly allow TOD developments to occur along the ring-road/ring-LRT. They could start off with transit-oriented developments at West and North Kincora stations, then move east, station by station, once the LRT lines up again with ring-road (east of Saddlecrest Station). Restricting new developments to TOD will be easier than restricting development entirely, and I think, rather hope, there is enough will at city hall to do so.

http://ucalgary.ca/~daprevat/north_lrt.jpg

LRT in the ring road is the least of our worries!!

We need better W, SE, N-Central (plus airport spur line) and downtown/beltline service before we need to spend one penny on a Ring Road route - and even then i could come up with another half dozen better routes to focus on.



Claeren.

There are areas that need transit right now but that doesn't mean we should ignore areas that will need it in the future, doing that is what got us here in the first place. LRT service is catching up and if we continue to focus solely on that it'll be an endless game of catch-up. We can no longer afford to treat transit as an afterthought when planning new developments, transit must be present from the start. It might not make money but when does it ever? We need to follow the example of other cities, most notably Amsterdam, and ensure that some form of rapid, or at least decent, transit service is provided by the time residents and workers move into a new community.

[lubicon]

I was up at the new NW Costco the other day and you get a real good look east along the Stoney Trail alignment. I'm floored by the fact that they are NOT connecting Shaganappi to Stoney Tr at this time, instead having a 2 lane bridge over Stoney Trail with no connection to/from Shaganappi. They are rough grading offramps etc but not finishing them. Surely the incremental cost of one more bridge (so Shag is 4 lanes) and a bit of pavement for the offramps is not too much considering the overall cost of the project. People in Sherwood etc, and those communities along Shaganappi (south of Stoney Trail) are cut off from the ring road and face a long circuituous path to get onto it. It makes absolutely no sense to me. While they are doing a great job on the NE portion of Stoney Trail, they are f<cking it up royally on the NW portion by putting in signalized intersections and not connecting major roads to it.

[The Geographer]

One problem with trying to put TOD in the Stoney Trail median is that the median is so wide that most of the prime TOD land (within walking distance) would be unavailable for development (its needed for a 16 lane highway). If it could be offset from the ring-road a bit than it would be more useful... of course it is probably too late for that since the surrounding communities are already filling in. In the end it will cost far more and be less effective.

@Riise. Fantastic post. People have to get out of the mindset of merely responding to and accommodating previous patterns of growth. Waiting for "demand to reach a threshold" based on the previous paradigm of development is far less effective than actively trying to change the paradigm of development. While I like the idea of diverting freight thru-traffic out of the city, building a massive ring road without putting in transit is completely counterproductive and will condemn Calgary to another generation of bad development, commuting patterns, and employment/residence locations. It will be astronomically more expensive to fix in the long-term.

Calgary (and Alberta) has to stop being a place that passively lets history happen to it and instead must actively shape it. We are wealthy and have a good quality of life, but it all could be SO much better.

[Doug]

A SW circumferential line could also be viable some day:

McKenzie Towne->Sundane Office Park->Shawnessy/Bridlewood->162nd Ave->37th St (future Stoney Trail/SW connector)->Mount Royal College/WestMount Corporate Campus->Currie Barracks->WestHills (Sarcee and Richmond)->Sarcee and Bow->Over Edworthy Park->Foothills Hospital->U of C West Campus->U of C

[ctown.myth]

I was up at the new NW Costco the other day and you get a real good look east along the Stoney Trail alignment. I'm floored by the fact that they are NOT connecting Shaganappi to Stoney Tr at this time, instead having a 2 lane bridge over Stoney Trail with no connection to/from Shaganappi. They are rough grading offramps etc but not finishing them. Surely the incremental cost of one more bridge (so Shag is 4 lanes) and a bit of pavement for the offramps is not too much considering the overall cost of the project. People in Sherwood etc, and those communities along Shaganappi (south of Stoney Trail) are cut off from the ring road and face a long circuituous path to get onto it. It makes absolutely no sense to me. While they are doing a great job on the NE portion of Stoney Trail, they are f<cking it up royally on the NW portion by putting in signalized intersections and not connecting major roads to it.

They're not only doing signals only on the NW side, they're doing it on the SE side too.

[mersar]

The only SE one that gets signals from my understanding is @ 17th avenue, and thats only until they start the next phase of the east side in a few years time

[craner]

Has there been any mention of upgrading 16th Ave. and 68th Street to an interchange in conjunction with te NE ring road ? It would be nice to get rid of that set of lights as you come into the city.:yes:

[frinkprof]

While I agree that a ring-road LRT line should be low on the priority list, at the very least, a right of way should be secured. As I said when it was originally posted in the Calgary Public Transit thread, that north cross looks good.

@ Doug:
We had mused in the Calgary Public Transit thread awhile back about a line similar to that, or rather two separate lines that you have more or less combined in your proposal. My idea used Anderson Road in the south, and 14th Street instead of the future ring road, although I have since warmed up a bit to the idea of using the future ring road.

I'm not too hot on the idea of a bridge over Edworthy, however.

Anyway, back on the topic of the ring road, I pass by the work near 16th Ave. NE every day and I might take some pictures sometime. Lots of earthmoving going on.

[mersar]

Earth moving is well underway the entire route it seems. Plus at McKnight they already have the piles going in for the interchange, so it may be reasonable to expect to see that interchange mostly done by the end of the year.

[lubicon]

Has there been any mention of upgrading 16th Ave. and 68th Street to an interchange in conjunction with te NE ring road ? It would be nice to get rid of that set of lights as you come into the city.:yes:

Since it only makes sense that this should be done, it's probably likely that this WON'T be done (IMHO). When was the last time the city did anything that made sense or smelled of long term planning??

[Doug]

I'm not too hot on the idea of a bridge over Edworthy, however.

An alignment could follow the existing road below Wildwood to the lower Edworthy parking lot and then cross the river on a combined pedestrian bridge, replacing the existing pedestrian bridge. That shortcut is too appealing not to use and would offer a significant advantage that roads could not match.

[Innersoul1]

An alignment could follow the existing road below Wildwood to the lower Edworthy parking lot and then cross the river on a combined pedestrian bridge, replacing the existing pedestrian bridge. That shortcut is too appealing not to use and would offer a significant advantage that roads could not match.

FANTASTIC Idea!

I really think that route would have minimal impact:tup: