Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[downtownserg89]

Wiley says Portland, Oregon’s system is one to be modeled for what Sacramento has in mind.

so does that mean the streetcars will have the modern look rather than the vintage look?

'cause if it is, then i'm a happy camper. i prefer the newer modern look.

[Web]

Gov workers etc already park under wx freeway and take buses to dt.....the 141 an the 142

[greenmidtown]

I have to disagree with you on this one. I think going across the bridge should be at the top of the list.
You have Raley Field on the other side of the river and Raley Landing starting to be developed along with thousands of lofts, townhouses and condos planned along with businesses in the works.
Plus, if you put the line in, people in West Sac (especially South Port) will be more likely to use the system, if they work in the Central City.
We have to stop thinking about Sac only on transportation issues and think regionally. We should be thinking of the river as a street in the central city that needs to be crossed. Both cities need to develop the infastructure now instead of waiting and planning (which Sacramentans love to do) for it.
Just my two cents.

You bring up great points and I'm just as excited about West Sac's rapid growth and the need to connect it with the central core as you. However, the streetcar needs to generate revenue now not in the potential future. Starting the first phase of streetcar development in the urban core makes sense because these areas can sustain it in the near-term. The streetcar would help facilitate growth in West Sac but it won't generate revenue in West Sac. Finally the urban core needs this now. The development, residential population, bars, clubs, boutiques, theatres, hotels etc. are here now and need a streetcar system.

But you have a strong argument. I would like the whole project completed now with West Sac on-board but if money is an issue, which it is, I suggest starting with the urban core and moving to West Sac later.

[TowerDistrict]

Gov workers etc already park under wx freeway and take buses to dt.....the 141 an the 142

uh-huh.... then i guess it's a good idea, right. anyway the entire premise of the buses was to follow the streetcar routes. now the plan should be to replace the buses that took over and ran the whole system into the ground.

anyway.. i guess the point of reinstating the streetcar is not to supply a means of transportation for existing neighborhoods, but rather to stimulate new growth - as described here (http://www.riversfrontstreetcar.com/).

[greenmidtown]

so does that mean the streetcars will have the modern look rather than the vintage look?

'cause if it is, then i'm a happy camper. i prefer the newer modern look.

Portland purchased its streetcars from a company in the Czech Republic. They look modern and European. That would be wonderful if we can get a similar type of streetcar from a European country. Imagine if you could roll down K st. at night on Second Saturday in a modern European streetcar with a group of art-lovers. It's projects like this that bring the country's focus to medium-sized cities.

[brandon12]

Air Canada plans Vancouver-to-Sacramento flights
By Clint Swett - Bee Staff Writer
Published 1:07 pm PDT Tuesday, March 13, 2007

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Sacramento International Airport landed its second international carrier Tuesday when Air Canada announced it would begin two daily nonstops between the capital and Vancouver, B.C., beginning June 15.

The announcement culminates the airport's efforts to lure Air Canada that date back to 2001.

"We want to expand our options for customers," said airport spokeswoman Gina Swankie. "We wanted to give them another nonstop destination."

Plans call for the Montreal-based carrier to fly one early morning and one late afternoon departure to Vancouver aboard 50-seat Bombardier regional jets. Flights from Vancouver will arrive in mid-afternoon and late evening.

Sacramento's first international flights began in 2002 when Mexicana Airlines began nonstop service to Guadalajara. The carrier now has 12 weekly flights to three Mexican destinations. Last March, Frontier Airlines began flying three times a week between Sacramento and Cabo San Lucas.

[brandon12]

City delays vote on $10 million loan to Aura tower
Bee Metro Staff
Last Updated 1:24 pm PDT Tuesday, March 13, 2007

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The Sacramento City Council postponed until March 20 a vote on a three-year, $10 million loan to ensure the city's first downtown high-rise condominium is constructed.

Developer Craig Nassi in February asked for the city loan to bridge a funding gap in his $175.8 million Aura Condominiums project brought on by escalating construction costs.

The city previously had scheduled the vote for Tuesday.

Nassi is proposing a 39-story building to include 268 housing units, 328 parking spaces and more than 14,000 square feet of retail space.

[goldcntry]

Two thoughts: How much different and/or feasible would it be for RT's Lightrail car plant here in Sacramento to build a trolley fleet in addition to the RT cars? I recall reading a year or so ago that our plant is now building cars for other cities. What's wrong with them building a distinctly Sacramento Trolley born and bred right here?

On the second thought, if West Sac was to fund the Yolo side of the river with the trolley, anyone want to bet on which city has their side done first? :P Okay, that was low. Seriously, with all the expansion in South Port and the Triangle, I think that NOW would be the time for Chris Calbadon and company to lay in the infrastructure for a line to the South Port Center (Linden and Jefferson BLVD). West Sac already has a West Capitol Avenue revitalization plan that calls for trolleys up and down the wide median (it's somewhere on West Sac's site or I've got a copy saved somewhere). Can't wait.:yes:

[downtownserg89]

City delays vote on $10 million loan to Aura tower
Bee Metro Staff
Last Updated 1:24 pm PDT Tuesday, March 13, 2007

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The Sacramento City Council postponed until March 20 a vote on a three-year, $10 million loan to ensure the city's first downtown high-rise condominium is constructed.

Developer Craig Nassi in February asked for the city loan to bridge a funding gap in his $175.8 million Aura Condominiums project brought on by escalating construction costs.

The city previously had scheduled the vote for Tuesday.

Nassi is proposing a 39-story building to include 268 housing units, 328 parking spaces and more than 14,000 square feet of retail space.

dammit! ashflbgldbgasKasggsdbgasDBGdgs.asdbvusvagf.

[innov8]

City delays vote on $10 million loan to Aura tower
Bee Metro Staff
Last Updated 1:24 pm PDT Tuesday, March 13, 2007

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The Sacramento City Council postponed until March 20 a vote on a three-year, $10 million loan to ensure the city's first downtown high-rise condominium is constructed.

Developer Craig Nassi in February asked for the city loan to bridge a funding gap in his $175.8 million Aura Condominiums project brought on by escalating construction costs.

The city previously had scheduled the vote for Tuesday.

Nassi is proposing a 39-story building to include 268 housing units, 328 parking spaces and more than 14,000 square feet of retail space.

Ahh, geezzz... will the drama from any of the residential towers ever give
us a break? I know last week all the city council people wanted to meet with
the AURA people in person to go over a few things, maybe not all the meeting
happen so the date to vote was pushed back one week :shrug:

[TowerDistrict]

Seriously, with all the expansion in South Port and the Triangle, I think that NOW would be the time for Chris Calbadon and company to lay in the infrastructure for a line to the South Port Center (Linden and Jefferson BLVD). West Sac already has a West Capitol Avenue revitalization plan that calls for trolleys up and down the wide median (it's somewhere on West Sac's site or I've got a copy saved somewhere). Can't wait.:yes:

i guess that's what green midtown and i am trying to say - it's kinda weak to use the streetcar idea to stimulate new growth, when a first stage serving existing neighborhoods could provide instant usage and profit.

the local plant that builds light rail and streetcars is Siemen's (http://www.transportation.siemens.com/ts/en/pub/products/mobility/mega_cities__urban_transport_.htm). It would make perfect sense to purchase the streetcars from them, but who knows?

[urban_encounter]

City delays vote on $10 million loan to Aura tower
Bee Metro Staff
Last Updated 1:24 pm PDT Tuesday, March 13, 2007

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The Sacramento City Council postponed until March 20 a vote on a three-year, $10 million loan to ensure the city's first downtown high-rise condominium is constructed.

Developer Craig Nassi in February asked for the city loan to bridge a funding gap in his $175.8 million Aura Condominiums project brought on by escalating construction costs.

The city previously had scheduled the vote for Tuesday.

Nassi is proposing a 39-story building to include 268 housing units, 328 parking spaces and more than 14,000 square feet of retail space.



<sigh>

:rolleyes:


I would be lying if i said that this was a surprise. Nothing comes easy or timely in Sacramento, even when all the ducks are in order.

I wont even begin to speculate what the cause of the delay is.

Oh well, it's seven more days for the city councils final decision and a mere 18 more days until the drop dead date.


One way or the other we'll know where this thing is headed by the end of the month.

But in regards to having the foundation poured by April (assuming they mean the end of April), it's not going to happen by then.

[greenmidtown]

i guess that's what green midtown and i am trying to say - it's kinda weak to use the streetcar idea to stimulate new growth, when a first stage serving existing neighborhoods could provide instant usage and profit.

the local plant that builds light rail and streetcars is Siemen's (http://www.transportation.siemens.com/ts/en/pub/products/mobility/mega_cities__urban_transport_.htm). It would make perfect sense to purchase the streetcars from them, but who knows?

Nice, I like the look of their streetcars. It'd be nice if Siemens helped lobby on Sacramento's behalf for funding. Another thing going for Sac according to the audio clip is its flatness. A streetcar system could be built cheaper and faster here than most cities due to our despised geography.

[innov8]

I hope the design of the street cars we get here is kinda like what they have
down in San Diego... a classic older design. What ever we have put in, it
needs to be easily disguised apart from the Light Rail cars which are modern looking.

[urban_encounter]

I hope the design of the street cars we get here is kinda like what they have
down in San Diego... a classic older design. What ever we have put in, it
needs to be easily disguised apart from the Light Rail cars which are modern looking.


I agree...

:yes:

[downtownserg89]

the local plant that builds light rail and streetcars is Siemen's (http://www.transportation.siemens.com/ts/en/pub/products/mobility/mega_cities__urban_transport_.htm). It would make perfect sense to purchase the streetcars from them, but who knows?

oh dang, siemens has really cool street cars! sac really needs them, i think a street car on j or l street would look cool, but would be very difficult.

16th st would be kinda cool too. you could like visit all the restaurants, start from willies on broadway and work your way up midtown till you get to 16th & F and have some frank's hot wok chinese food!

..or a mcdonalds streetcar wouldnt hurt! :jester:

[SacRising]

First off, DTSerge, nice job on the Alhambra & T rendering...even though it sucked, it's still 10 times better than the current proposal.

I hear the talk of the street car from Sac City officials would run in a 'U' shaped configuration approximately along Front St. to Broadway to Alhambra (serving Serge's alternative lifestyle club condo...there's your name; "Club Condo"). But the City of West Sac has been the real champion behind this streetcar effort.

So while we all want to see a streetcar line serve Midtown and DT Sac, West Sac will definately be in the initial track configuration. And really, why shouldn't they be. West Sac is actually building high density housing in their DT grid, while Sac is struggling to keep its pretty pictures from joining Metro Place in the R.I.P. pile.

Now, please don't take this as a pessimistic view on Sac, I'm a true beleiver that we will overcome. But at the same time, don't discount the progress that our little sister across the river has made in recent years. For instance; http://www.riverssidehomes.com/ and the Lofts at Ironworks by http://www.regishomessacramento.com/ . Plus keep an eye open for news on this major redevelopment in West Sac. http://www.cityofwestsacramento.org/business/bids_rfp/PDFS/Redevelopment/Stone%20Lock%20District/West%20Sac%20RFQ%20Brochure.pdf

All the while, Sac has many many many plans in place, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the only new condo/townhouse for sale project actually being built in Sactown http://www.sigprop.com/nbds/village/index.html . I love the new rental product we have at 1801 L, 800 J, St. Anton etc. but no new condos have risen yet.

[sugit]

In addtion to Washington Park Village you mentioned, L Street Lofts, North End Lofts, 21st and T Townhomes, Marriot Condos, and a few at 14th and R are for sale. That's about 200.

EDIT: Are SoCap Lofts for sale? If so that's another 36. I think the project at 16th and H is for sale too, that's 50 more.

[downtownserg89]

First off, DTSerge, nice job on the Alhambra & T rendering...even though it sucked, it's still 10 times better than the current proposal.

I hear the talk of the street car from Sac City officials would run in a 'U' shaped configuration approximately along Front St. to Broadway to Alhambra (serving Serge's alternative lifestyle club condo...there's your name; "Club Condo"). But the City of West Sac has been the real champion behind this streetcar effort.

So while we all want to see a streetcar line serve Midtown and DT Sac, West Sac will definately be in the initial track configuration. And really, why shouldn't they be. West Sac is actually building high density housing in their DT grid, while Sac is struggling to keep its pretty pictures from joining Metro Place in the R.I.P. pile.

Now, please don't take this as a pessimistic view on Sac, I'm a true beleiver that we will overcome. But at the same time, don't discount the progress that our little sister across the river has made in recent years. For instance; http://www.riverssidehomes.com/ and the Lofts at Ironworks by http://www.regishomessacramento.com/ . Plus keep an eye open for news on this major redevelopment in West Sac. http://www.cityofwestsacramento.org/business/bids_rfp/PDFS/Redevelopment/Stone%20Lock%20District/West%20Sac%20RFQ%20Brochure.pdf

All the while, Sac has many many many plans in place, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the only new condo/townhouse for sale project actually being built in Sactown http://www.sigprop.com/nbds/village/index.html . I love the new rental product we have at 1801 L, 800 J, St. Anton etc. but no new condos have risen yet.

aw thanks! you're always so kind. i like club condo. the name itself makes we want to dance. and dang, street cars will run all the way by that area? that's pretty cool. i guess i better update.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/dirtychimp182/alhambraandtstwithSC.jpg

[brandon12]

In addtion to Washington Park Village you mentioned, L Street Lofts, North End Lofts, 21st and T Townhomes, Marriot Condos, and a few at 14th and R are for sale. That's about 200.

EDIT: Are SoCap Lofts for sale? If so that's another 36. I think the project at 16th and H is for sale too, that's 50 more.


plus another 36 (I think) at Whiskey Hill at 22 & S. There's also six units at 21 & S, and some of the Alchemy at 26 & R are for sell. In fact, I'm sure there's dozens more that we still haven't mentioned.

The high-rise condos tend to catch the spotlight, but there's ALL KINDS of smaller for-sale infill being constructed right now.

[SacRising]

In addtion to Washington Park Village you mentioned, L Street Lofts, North End Lofts, 21st and T Townhomes, Marriot Condos, and a few at 14th and R are for sale. That's about 200.

EDIT: Are SoCap Lofts for sale? If so that's another 36. I think the project at 16th and H is for sale too, that's 50 more.

Thanks for the update, and Brandon too. Which ones are the North End Lofts and 14th & R st? Brandon's right, the big towers do steal our focus when there are plenty of small projects being built now. But as far as the larger mixed-use multifamily buildings, most of these are apartments, correct? Aren't these examples more of a townhouse style (Marriott excluded)?

[greenmidtown]

plus another 36 (I think) at Whiskey Hill at 22 & S. There's also six units at 21 & S, and some of the Alchemy at 26 & R are for sell. In fact, I'm sure there's dozens more that we still haven't mentioned.

The high-rise condos tend to catch the spotlight, but there's ALL KINDS of smaller for-sale infill being constructed right now.

Not to mention their already is a large residential population in the urban core. The day-time population skyrockets and on weekends we have thousands dining, dancing, going to shows, checking out art. I live here and seconds don't go by without pedestrians walking, jogging, and biking by my window. You can't even compare West Sac to the urban core.
It's hard for residents of the 'burbs to believe but people actually walk and bike everywhere here. It's a pedestrian-friendly bubble in otherwise auto-centric Sac.

[Los_Lobo]

Ahh, geezzz... will the drama from any of the residential towers ever give
us a break? I know last week all the city council people wanted to meet with
the AURA people in person to go over a few things, maybe not all the meeting
happen so the date to vote was pushed back one week :shrug:
I watched today's city council meeting. When they announced that item "#21 Aura financing" would be postponed, Robbie Waters said he wanted to know why. They said it was postponed because the council didn't get a chance to look over all the agreements prior to the meeting but the Aura folks said they'd get them the agreements in plenty of time for next week's meeting. Then Waters said, "Oh, I wondered because I was supposed to meet with Nassi today and he didn't show up."

(Yes, I wish the drama would end and they would just build these darn things......)

[sugit]

Thanks for the update, and Brandon too. Which ones are the North End Lofts and 14th & R st? Brandon's right, the big towers do steal our focus when there are plenty of small projects being built now. But as far as the larger mixed-use multifamily buildings, most of these are apartments, correct? Aren't these examples more of a townhouse style (Marriott excluded)?

L Street Lofts is an 8 story building and the one at 14th and R is a small 2 story mixed-use warehouse rehad.

I included the townhouse type projects like North End Lofts (http://www.northendlofts.com/) and 21st and T Townhomes since I thought that was what you were asking about as well

It's hard for residents of the 'burbs to believe but people actually walk and bike everywhere here. It's a pedestrian-friendly bubble in otherwise auto-centric Sac.

I rarely ever get back in my car after I get home from work. If my wife and I go eat or I go grab drinks, we walk 95% of the time, unless it's really far. So nice to be able to walk off a nice meal or a few drinks.

[greenmidtown]

L Street Lofts is an 8 story building and the one at 14th and R is a small 2 story mixed-use warehouse rehad.

I included the townhouse type projects like North End Lofts (http://www.northendlofts.com/) and 21st and T Townhomes since I thought that was what you were asking about as well



I rarely ever get back in my car after I get home from work. If my wife and I go eat or I go grab drinks, we walk 95% of the time, unless it's really far. So nice to be able to walk off a nice meal or a few drinks.

I feel you. I don't have a car. I get by walking, biking, using light-rail. Granted my girlfriend has a car that we use mostly just for road-trips. And for the occasional trip to IKEA in West Sac as well :haha:.

[TWAK]

would that streetcar ever be able to be upgraded to light rail? West Capitol is wide enough to support it i think, and maybe all those lines that run down Jefferson as well. The west capitol like could eventually cross the causeway and into davis/ucd...which is part of the 20 year plan, yes?

[TowerDistrict]

Then Waters said, "Oh, I wondered because I was supposed to meet with Nassi today and he didn't show up."

how could you miss a meeting about $10,000,000? it's not like he has any other projects going on either...

would that streetcar ever be able to be upgraded to light rail? West Capitol is wide enough to support it i think, and maybe all those lines that run down Jefferson as well. The west capitol like could eventually cross the causeway and into davis/ucd...which is part of the 20 year plan, yes?

the streetcar would be used instead of light rail, which is used for regional trips - long range 5-10 miles and such. they both serve individual purposes. the streetcar is better for frequent stops and faster loading and unloading. but i don't know if they can run on the same tracks.

and yeah... you're right about the plan (http://www.sacrt.com/20yearvisionmap.stm)

[innov8]

how could you miss a meeting about $10,000,000? it's not like he has any other projects going on either...


Old man Waters isn't fond of this project... I'm sure he just over looked the memo
on why Nassi could not meet to his schedule. I'm pretty certain Waters is still a no vote.

[Phillip]

[B]
Easy there Phillip.

No need to get hysterical on us...

I'm not going to get into a comparison of the two cities because this forum isn't the place for a city vs. city argument... While i've never lived in Fresno I do have relatives that live there, which is why your comparisons don't exactly resonate me.. That being said, suffice to say that comparing Fresno to Sacramento is like comparing Sacramento to San Francisco... The three are each unique in there own way....

Two days later I'm in LA and I've calmed down...for now.

I stopped in Fresno on the drive down. I was reading the Fresno Bee in my hotel room and that's where I saw the obituary for the Fresno city planner whose ambition was to see Downtown Fresno become more like his native Prague. (Talk about ambition!) I thought it might be of passing interest to some folks on this board and I posted it, plus an aside comment about some similarities I saw beween Downtown Fresno and Downtown Sacramento.

I'm only seeing all the followup comments now....I had no idea it would turn into what it did....You never know when you're going to touch a nerve.

I might have a couple more Fresno vs Sac comments later. Not sure.

=========

In the 1980's there was a 6 episode miniseries on TV called "Fresno". It was a spoof of "Dallas" and "Dynasty" and starred Carol Burnett as the domineering matriarch of a wealthy raisin family, plus Dabney Coleman, Charles Grodin, Terri Garr, and others.

I didn't see it, but the people who did said it was hilarious. I don't think it ever went to video or DVD. I've never been able to find it anywhere, not even at Tower Video in Fresno, when that existed. Next time I pass through Fresno I'm going to put an ad on Craigslist and see if I can find someone there who has a copy to lend or sell me.

Fresno lends itself to parody and ridicule in a way that Sacramento does not. I don't think Sacramento would take too well to a six-part miniseries making fun of our city. All two million of us might get hysterical....like me. :haha:

[bennywah]

^

haha, oh Phil you just love stirring up the pot, ............... it's ok you dont have to answer but you know you do, hehe. Anyhoo at your Fresno vs Sac comments provided some good debate and responses for a period where, things are slow, except that fugly building on alhambra, sheesh that thing is hideous and not even retro its like they just took old plans from the 50's-60's and decided to build it now.

end rant lol

[Nawlijispower]

Aura, Towers, 621, 500, anything downtown......

I was wondering... Does anyone know if other cities run into so many bumps, cliffs, road blocks, etc like we do when it comes to DT development. I know 500CM has gone pretty damn fast but even our wonderful caltrans tried to slow that down.

I have been to most states in the union but none long enough to experience development of their urban cores. I was just wondering if we were all alone in this anti-speedy DT development city.

Just a thought and a question. :shuffle:

[Phillip]

Sac is truely twice the size of Fresno. 2.2 million compared to 1.1 million makes a huge difference in terms of culture, retail, arts, diversity.Fresno MSA has about 1.1 million people today---the same number that Sacramento MSA had in 1980. Since then both metro areas have doubled in size.

But Sacramento's million new residents have overwhelmingly located in the suburbs---Elk Grove, Roseville, Folsom, etc. Only about 182,000 of Sac MSA's population growth since 1980 were additions to the city of Sacramento. The other 918,000 went to the suburbs.

No offense to the good people of Roseville and Elk Grove but those booming areas don't add anything to my sense of Sacramento's "urbanity". In the last year I've never had any occasion to go to Roseville or Elk Grove or Citrus Heights or Lincoln for anything. (I do drive to Rancho Cordova to get my hair cut by a Vietnamese lady, and there are some restaurants in Rancho where I like to eat.)

Despite Sacramento's population explosion 98% of my life in Sacramento takes place in parts of town that were already built out by 1980, which is an area of about 1 million people, about the size of Fresno MSA today. Maybe that's why Sacramento seems not that much bigger than Fresno to me.

Admittedly, having 2 million people vs. 1 million has some advantages, even if the difference is 400,000 additional suburban tract homes. 2 million can support major league sports; 1 million means minor league (not counting Green Bay). 2 million usually means more attractive anchors on local TV news. (Although Sac could still use some help in that department.) 2 million gets a better airport, more plane connections, bigger shopping malls, more concerts. It's not nothing.

============

Just Googled and found these urban density figures:

Density of Sacramento: 4,189 people per square mile
Density of Fresno: 4,315 people per square mile
Density of San Francisco: 16,632 people per square mile

Some neighborhoods of S.F. have densities over 50,000 per square mile though, including the neighborhoods where tourists and visitors usually go.

Sac has more high density housing than Fresno, mostly in Downtown and Midtown. But Fresno has more households with 10 or 12 people. Overall density for the two cities ends up about the same.

=============

Sacramento's densest areas are Downtown and Midtown. Those areas will become taller and denser and more urban. Downtown Fresno will probably never develop in that way.

But Downtown and Midtown together are...2% of Sacramento's area? 3%? When the railyards get built out, doubling Downtown's size, maybe Downtown/Midtown will be 5% or 6% of Sacramento? That small area of Sac, which is the focus of most discussion on this board, distinguishes Sacramento from other Central Valley cities. But the other 90% of Sac...to me it's kind of Fresno.

:2cents:

[Phillip]

^
haha, oh Phil you just love stirring up the pot, ............... it's ok you dont have to answer but you know you do, hehe. No, I don't! It just happens!

[brandon12]

I think Phillip's right on most of his points above.

[brandon12]

Phillip, are you gonna post that Fresno Bee article you referenced above?

[bennywah]

^
hey phil I was smiling and laughing the entire time I wrote that, I know sometimes on the internet sarcasm or a lil joking around can be lost in translation, in any case I'm sure in person you always can make a conversation or debate lively.

I do agree with the fact that Sacramento is still mostly suburban, and to one who doesn't venture into the urban core they can't see the special things happening, hence most peoples defensive attitudes about Sac.

San Fransisco doesn't have the area to support sprawling neighborhoods, hence the higher density, much like a large area of San Diego is mostly condo's apt's ect because of geography however the geography creates neighborhoods here in San Diego that seem like higher density small cities, or suburbs, which if someone only visited those mesa burbs could compare San Diego to Fresno, Sac, ect. I guess my point is besides cities like NYC, SF, cities that have to grow up and dense will always seem more urban than cities that have land to create suburbs until you visit there urban cores, and of course a city like San Diego has the benefit of beautiful beaches and great weather.

[brandon12]

I've think SD is just about perfect. the weather, the beaches, the girls, the Mexican food, the skyline, the universities and institutes, the biotech industry. As far as I'm concerned, it would be tough for any medium-sized city to beat it on an over-all basis

[Phillip]

Phillip, I was born and raised in Portland. I know a little about cities hiding in the shadow of bigger cities, in Portland's case Seattle, and coming out of that redefining themselves. I came to Sac after living abroad 5 years ago. I've fallen in love with the city. You're lucky to have been raised in Portland. I love that city. It might be my favorite city in the whole U.S. Curiously I don't like Seattle much at all. Bigger isn't always better.

I don't have an inferiority complex at all, I love this city and I choose to live here.I didn't say you personally have an inferiority complex. I said that the city of Sacramento has an inferiority complex, and that its residents often feel a need to justify and explain what a good place Sacramento is, more than residents of other cities where I've lived, including Fresno and Portland.

I never said Sac was Paris, I said it has more trees than Paris. It's not nor ever will be San Francisco, so what? That doesn't make it Fresno. Suggesting something that irrational suggests to me that you have a complex, maybe you hate living here. I hope you realize a lot of us don't.I wasn't sentenced to live in Sacramento. I'm here entirely by my own choice. At this moment I'd rather live in Sacramento than in Fresno or San Francisco. Next week that could change.

I didn't mean for this to turn antagonistic. We both like Portland. I like Fresno more than you. All good. :cheers:

[Phillip]

Phillip, are you gonna post that Fresno Bee article you referenced above?I posted it on Sunday, Brandon. That's what started this whole thing. It's post #240 in this thread.

[brandon12]

oops, sorry. I feel bad for that guy. I hope he died content.

[TowerDistrict]

i've read before that people of Budapest often have an inferiority complex with Prague. after the fall of communism, most investors poured into Prague while Budapest was largely looked over, yet had the same potential

i think that's something Sacramentan's could relate to - let alone a planner in Fresno trying to achieve what Prague has now.

anyway, Dr. Phil defintely has it right when speaking of what a small spec of the sacramento region we discuss 95% of the time here. but like so many cities, like say washington dc, that small spec has weathered decades or urban neglect. and now that small spec is the main focus of a region 50 times its size. there is a lot to be said for that. it means a sea change in a population's idea of living both now and in the near future.

and what draws many of us here, is that sacramento has those building blocks in place. as far as density statistics go, my crude estimates show DT and MT at a current density of about 8,000 per square mile. and during the work week - it's over 20,000. but it's just that population gap that i find most disappointing. not that i want 100,000+ people here 24 hours a day - it's just not a healthy transition for a city as an entity.

i can only vaguely remeber why i typed all that - but i promise that each paragraph written addressed at least one comment made in the last couple pages... guten nacht.

[sugit]

On this same subject...I was watching High Stakes Poker on GSN last night. (100K min buy in). There was a guy from Sacramento, Dan Harmetz, playing with all the well known poker players. He's an investment banker.

The TV commentators were like "Sacramento! The investment banker capitol of the US!" "If I need an investment banker, he better be from Sacramento!"

I wanted to toss my dish at the tv.....haha

[ozone]

OK here's my take on the street car debate. I agree 100% with those who say that we need to first build a Midtown-Downtown streetcar line and then consider crossing the river. Right now there just aren’t enough people living and working in the West Capitol/Riverwalk area to justify it. Although things are changing there's still very little there, over there. It's nonsense to say West Sacramento is building a high denisty core and Sacramento isn't. I think someone is a little overly enthusiastic for WeSac.

Originally the Modern Transit Society, the citizens group who’s advocacy lead to the reformation of Sacramento’s Light Rail System, had proposed the introduction of a historical trolley loop in the Central City. However, a shift in focus came as part of a growing interest nation-wide in light-rail during the 1970’s as an cost-effective alternative to building more freeways in order to accommodate commuters and new suburban growth.

Today Sacramento’s light-rail mostly serves the suburban commuters and not the Midtown residents. We still do not have a viable transportation system that serves the most transit-supportive district in the Sacramento region: the Central City (Midtown-Downtown-Southside-North End). This is perplexing and frustrating for those of us who live and/or work in Midtown because we are able to easily walk to many of our destinations and yet given that the Central City is a little too large to comfortably navigate it exclusively on foot we are forced to use a car. In order to make Central Sacramento truly walkable (which almost all the great cities of the world are) we need a rail line that links Downtown with Midtown. No other area in Sacramento is truly capable of supporting a streetcar line because no other area has such compact, walk-able residential neighborhoods nor the number of on-street shops and restaurants particularly in the K-J-L-Capitol Avenue corridor.

The recent plan to recreate a historic streetcar line linking downtown Sacramento with the still sparsely built-up West Sacramento shows just how few people in Sacramento really understand what ingredients go into making public transit work well. Only Central Sacramento has enough density and the pedestrian quality that would make a historic streetcar truly successful as viable alternative to the automobile. A historic streetcar from downtown Sacramento to West Sacramento would be more of a novelty rather than a practical, well-used transit option.

The historic streetcars could make use of existing railroad tracks whenever possible. To do this we could retrofit the old rail tracks which run along the riverfront starting at O Street @ the Riverfront Promenade near CAM Crocker Art Museum (eventually the line could be extended to The Docks and/or the western section of the R Street Corridor) then to Front and K streets in Old Sacramento, then northward and by means of a new spur under the I Street Bridge to the Amtrak Depot, which is the gateway to the Railyards Project. From the depot the streetcar could then use the RT light-rail tracks to take it down the K Street Mall then east on J Street to Sutter’s Fort and then back downtown on L or P Street.

Most people who are just traveling around the downtown area will not use light-rail to get around. This streetcar would provide locals and visitors a fun and effective way to get from the Convention Center and the Capitol to Old Sacramento and the Riverfront.

[greenmidtown]

You're lucky to have been raised in Portland. I love that city. It might be my favorite city in the whole U.S. Curiously I don't like Seattle much at all. Bigger isn't always better.

I didn't say you personally have an inferiority complex. I said that the city of Sacramento has an inferiority complex, and that its residents often feel a need to justify and explain what a good place Sacramento is, more than residents of other cities where I've lived, including Fresno and Portland.

I wasn't sentenced to live in Sacramento. I'm here entirely by my own choice. At this moment I'd rather live in Sacramento than in Fresno or San Francisco. Next week that could change.

I didn't mean for this to turn antagonistic. We both like Portland. I like Fresno more than you. All good. :cheers:

Not at all Phillip, it was a good debate. After some thought I can agree with you that Sac has an inferiority complex. But this little bubble in the urban core is the exception; civic pride is as high here as in Portland in my experience. With civic pride also comes defensiveness, you compare us to Fresno and you've got to face the consequences...:whip:

[POGO]

I was reading the city staff report for the city council meeting today and noted a few interesting tidbits...


Aura has pre sold sold 65% of the units


Corus Bank's loan is contingent on Aura having pre sold 51% of the units



The foundation must be poured by April 2007 in order for Aura to meet contractual obligations to buyers and they expect a 20 month construction timeline



The cost of the land at 601 Capitol Mall is $13, 750 000 (anyone remember what the city sold it to Taylor for??)


Plant Construction of San Francisco will be the Genral Contractor.

Plant has prepared a Guaranteed Maximum Price specification book,
that caps construction hards costs at $125,900,000..


Corus Bank will lend BCN $132 million for the project


Kenlin Capital LLC will lend $14.5 million for Mezzanine financing

The developer has spent $6 million to date on the project

The City of Sacramento will (assuming final approval today) will back a Bank of America loan for $10 million

Total for project: $175,750,000

The Permits for excavation, grading, utilities and foundation work still haven't been picked up from the city by BCN.
>>>Maybe we can expect BCN to pick up those permits within the next few days or better yet, right after today's city council meeting?? :uhh:

City Staff Report to Council:

http://sacramento.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=6&event_id=2&meta_id=106359


Couple of questions - I thought Nassi has said in the press that he has presold 80% of the units. I also thought I remember reading that Tishman (of New York) was the contractor. This is the first I have read about Plant. Re the permits: I don't think he can pick up the permits without showing ownership of the land, or a lease agreement to build on someone else's property. I think he has to close the deal with Taylor before he can get permits.

[BrianSac]

[QUOTE=Phillip;2687045]Fresno MSA has about 1.1 million people today---the same number that Sacramento MSA had in 1980. Since then both metro areas have doubled in size.

But Sacramento's million new residents have overwhelmingly located in the suburbs---Elk Grove, Roseville, Folsom, etc.

Admittedly, having 2 million people vs. 1 million has some advantages, even if the difference is 400,000 additional suburban tract homes. 2 million can support major league sports; 1 million means minor league (not counting Green Bay). 2 million usually means more attractive anchors on local TV news. (Although Sac could still use some help in that department.) 2 million gets a better airport, more plane connections, bigger shopping malls, more concerts. It's not nothing.

============

Just Googled and found these urban density figures:

Density of Sacramento: 4,189 people per square mile
Density of Fresno: 4,315 people per square mile
Density of San Francisco: 16,632 people per square mile


Sacramento's densest areas are Downtown and Midtown. Those areas will become taller and denser and more urban. Downtown Fresno will probably never develop in that way.

Phillip, Thanks for the density figures.

I only piped in on this Sac/Fresno comparison as two friends of mine (a couple) sold there twin peaks home (SF), plus a rental property in San Jose to move to Fresno.

They exchanged their city life for Fresno; specifically for a huge ranch style house in an American River Dr. type neighborhood (minus the American River). They have been in Fresno for two years now; and in my many visits I've seen the area from one end to the other, and there is nothing in Fresno we don't have in Sac.

Fresno State Football is about the only thing Fresno can flap their wings about. The campus of Fresno State sucks btw; Sac State Campus is much nicer (more trees).

Like I said earlier their weather is really worse than ours, hotter longer heat waves, denser longer lasting fog.

Our Downtown and Midtown sets us apart from Fresno in a big way. Even our suburbs are more appealing, namely Roseville, Folsom and Davis.

They have the "perfect" suburban life with a huge pool, backyard and all the trimmings....90% of why people come to Sac and Fresno -- for a bigger suburban home....hopefully that will change when our residential towers get built.

[BrianSac]

A lot of SF residents are from the mid-west, east coast and know little about the West Coast in general outside of Seattle, San Francisco, L.A.. It's also a transient city. It seems like everyone's lived in SF at one point in their lives.

At the SF house warming party, the guys who made the ignorant comments were long time San Franciscans, hmm. The guys who were cool on Sac and happend to know all about Aura and the Towers were newbies from Chicago and Dallas. You may be right, I lived in SF for a year, too.

[BrianSac]

Bob Shallit: High-rise condos with 'waterfront' view
By Bob Shallit - Bee Columnist
Published 12:00 am PDT Wednesday, March 14, 2007
Story appeared in BUSINESS section, Page D1

Print | E-Mail | Comments (0)

Venice by the freeway? Not exactly. But land use consultant Brian Cooley is working on a project along Highway 50 that could sprout nearly 1,000 high-rise condos and retail shops -- all situated near an existing canal.

The proposal is the second for the property, former site of the Mine Shaft Family Fun Center, which sits parallel to the busy freeway between Sunrise Boulevard and Hazel Avenue.

Auto repo magnate Patrick Willis acquired the land in 2002 and initially planned to partially restore the amusement park and use the rest for auto sales and a call center.


Talks with county and Regional Transit officials led to a change in plans for the banana-shaped parcel that backs up to the Folsom South Canal, which carries water from the American River.

Why high-rises? Given the narrow footprint of the property, "the only way to put high-density (housing) there was to go up," Cooley says.

He reports that the multi-tower project has been well-received by RT, which is considering putting a light rail station nearby. County staffers also like the idea.

"We try to encourage intense development around light-rail stations. I think our office would be supportive of this type of project," says Jeff Gamel, a Sacramento County senior planner.

Its first big test comes in a month or two, when the developer goes before the Board of Supervisors seeking designation as a "special plan area" that would exempt it from some local zoning requirements.

If that goes well, the developers will seek more detailed designs from Nadel Architects and begin what could be a decadelong building process.

Cooley sees the housing appealing to people who want access to the bike trail, Lake Natoma and eventual light rail. It also dovetails with plans being developed by Aerojet for a massive housing and retail complex -- called Westborough -- to the southeast.

What about the current housing slump?

Not a worry, Cooley says. "We won't be having housing (coming on line) until 2011 or 2012," he says. "By then, who knows what the market will look like?"

* * *

[urban_encounter]

Sacramento's densest areas are Downtown and Midtown. Those areas will become taller and denser and more urban. Downtown Fresno will probably never develop in that way.

But Downtown and Midtown together are...2% of Sacramento's area? 3%? When the railyards get built out, doubling Downtown's size, maybe Downtown/Midtown will be 5% or 6% of Sacramento? That small area of Sac, which is the focus of most discussion on this board, distinguishes Sacramento from other Central Valley cities. But the other 90% of Sac...to me it's kind of Fresno.:2cents:


I agree that Downtown/Midtown are the focus of most Sacramento forumers, but that has more to do with the high density developments and the caliber of projects are mostly focused on DT Sacramento.

I think your comparisons about Fresno and parts of Sacramento, such as Elk Grove, Citrus Heights and environs are not far off the mark. Though admittedly the eastern burbs of Folsom and Roseville, have a much different feel and topography than Fresno.

I hope you didn't interpret my statement that DT Sacramento and DT Fresno have little in common, as a slam on Fresno. If so then I certainly apologize. Believe me I enjoy reading about efforts to revitalize that city (or any Valley city). I think it makes a lot of sense to have Fresno as the major city and region in the Southern Valley, enjoy the fruits of redevelopment. A healthy Fresno is good for the entire Valley.

I've said time and again, that every Valley city should be promoting economic growth that encourages the creation of jobs locally. I also believe very strongly that cities should be creating and promoting civic cultural amenities, the creation of new academic instituitions (UC Merced should have been in Fresno), transportation, retail and entertainment opportunities within their central cores; along with high density and transit oriented development..


:)

[urban_encounter]

Couple of questions - I thought Nassi has said in the press that he has presold 80% of the units.


I think Nassi has been less than truthful about sales, in order to encourage people to hurry up and buy. But as the city staff report points out 65% are strong "healthy" sales numbers and well above the lenders 51% requirement.

Apparently BCN and the lenders must think so, because aren't they holding off selling any addtional units until contruction is underway?? (Anybody know if that's the case??)



I also thought I remember reading that Tishman (of New York) was the contractor. This is the first I have read about Plant. Re the permits: I don't think he can pick up the permits without showing ownership of the land, or a lease agreement to build on someone else's property. I think he has to close the deal with Taylor before he can get permits.


Tishman was the Contractor origionally identified by Nassi himself.

I imagine the change was a result of Plant's firm price guarantee for hard construction.

Your probably right about the permits.

In any case he has unitl March 31st to close the deal with Taylor.
I just don't think that there's any chance they can have the piles in and the foundation poured by the end of April. (At least i don't think so)

[urban_encounter]

OK here's my take on the street car debate. I agree 100% with those who say that we need to first build a Midtown-Downtown streetcar line and then consider crossing the river. Right now there just aren’t enough people living and working in the West Capitol/Riverwalk area to justify it. Although things are changing there's still very little there, over there. It's nonsense to say West Sacramento is building a high denisty core and Sacramento isn't. I think someone is a little overly enthusiastic for WeSac.

Originally the Modern Transit Society, the citizens group who’s advocacy lead to the reformation of Sacramento’s Light Rail System, had proposed the introduction of a historical trolley loop in the Central City. However, a shift in focus came as part of a growing interest nation-wide in light-rail during the 1970’s as an cost-effective alternative to building more freeways in order to accommodate commuters and new suburban growth.

Today Sacramento’s light-rail mostly serves the suburban commuters and not the Midtown residents. We still do not have a viable transportation system that serves the most transit-supportive district in the Sacramento region: the Central City (Midtown-Downtown-Southside-North End). This is perplexing and frustrating for those of us who live and/or work in Midtown because we are able to easily walk to many of our destinations and yet given that the Central City is a little too large to comfortably navigate it exclusively on foot we are forced to use a car. In order to make Central Sacramento truly walkable (which almost all the great cities of the world are) we need a rail line that links Downtown with Midtown. No other area in Sacramento is truly capable of supporting a streetcar line because no other area has such compact, walk-able residential neighborhoods nor the number of on-street shops and restaurants particularly in the K-J-L-Capitol Avenue corridor.

The recent plan to recreate a historic streetcar line linking downtown Sacramento with the still sparsely built-up West Sacramento shows just how few people in Sacramento really understand what ingredients go into making public transit work well. Only Central Sacramento has enough density and the pedestrian quality that would make a historic streetcar truly successful as viable alternative to the automobile. A historic streetcar from downtown Sacramento to West Sacramento would be more of a novelty rather than a practical, well-used transit option.

The historic streetcars could make use of existing railroad tracks whenever possible. To do this we could retrofit the old rail tracks which run along the riverfront starting at O Street @ the Riverfront Promenade near CAM Crocker Art Museum (eventually the line could be extended to The Docks and/or the western section of the R Street Corridor) then to Front and K streets in Old Sacramento, then northward and by means of a new spur under the I Street Bridge to the Amtrak Depot, which is the gateway to the Railyards Project. From the depot the streetcar could then use the RT light-rail tracks to take it down the K Street Mall then east on J Street to Sutter’s Fort and then back downtown on L or P Street.

Most people who are just traveling around the downtown area will not use light-rail to get around. This streetcar would provide locals and visitors a fun and effective way to get from the Convention Center and the Capitol to Old Sacramento and the Riverfront.

:tup:


Very well stated.. I agree with everything you said 100%...
I especially agree that it makes more sense to connect DT Sacramento with Midtown. (Not West Sacramento)

I really hope that when the debate begins, you attend some of the R.T. meetings and present the points that you articulated so well here. If you do, then it will certainly give the board something to consider...


You should at the very least, write a letter to the Sacramento Bee, so that at least some of the R.T. board memebers might see your comments...

[SacRising]

OK here's my take on the street car debate. I agree 100% with those who say that we need to first build a Midtown-Downtown streetcar line and then consider crossing the river. Right now there just aren’t enough people living and working in the West Capitol/Riverwalk area to justify it. Although things are changing there's still very little there, over there. It's nonsense to say West Sacramento is building a high denisty core and Sacramento isn't. I think someone is a little overly enthusiastic for WeSac.

Maybe I am overly enthusiastic about W.Sac, so what. The city leaders there are much more proactive and results oriented that their counterparts across the river. I feel much more confidence that a streetcar line will be built if W.Sac is involved. So if the alternative is to have the City of Sac lead the charge, we may see unicorns pulling pumpkin shaped buggies through downtown before we ever see a streetcar line.

The recent plan to recreate a historic streetcar line linking downtown Sacramento with the still sparsely built-up West Sacramento shows just how few people in Sacramento really understand what ingredients go into making public transit work well. Only Central Sacramento has enough density and the pedestrian quality that would make a historic streetcar truly successful as viable alternative to the automobile. A historic streetcar from downtown Sacramento to West Sacramento would be more of a novelty rather than a practical, well-used transit option.

I agree that the streetcar should be built in Midtown and Downtown, but my point is that W. Sac cannot be overlooked, especially since they are the primary driver behind the streetcar effot. How arrogant to say to W.Sac, 'gee, thanks for championing this streetcar campaign, we'll talk after the Midtown line is complete.'

[Sacdelicious]

Maybe I am overly enthusiastic about W.Sac, so what. The city leaders there are much more proactive and results oriented that their counterparts across the river. I feel much more confidence that a streetcar line will be built if W.Sac is involved. So if the alternative is to have the City of Sac lead the charge, we may see unicorns pulling pumpkin shaped buggies through downtown before we ever see a streetcar line.



I agree that the streetcar should be built in Midtown and Downtown, but my point is that W. Sac cannot be overlooked, especially since they are the primary driver behind the streetcar effot. How arrogant to say to W.Sac, 'gee, thanks for championing this streetcar campaign, we'll talk after the Midtown line is complete.'


I agree. The total build-out for West Sacramento is around 100,000 people, with a large percentage of those in new projects located near the river. One of the main goals of this project is to link the two sides of the river...something that this streetcar would be a huge boost at doing. To overlook this link to West Sac (especially since they are a bigger advocate than our city for this project) is irresponsibe. Not that I am denying the need for the streetcar line in midtown, but I think they should at least get equal attention.

Also, in the latest Midtown Magazine, there's a huge section on the history of streetcars in Sac/West Sac, and the history of linking the two cities by rail..Check it out.

[TowerDistrict]

Also, in the latest Midtown Magazine, there's a huge section on the history of streetcars in Sac/West Sac, and the history of linking the two cities by rail..Check it out.

Cool. I'll definitely check that out - with the irony of reading about it in MIDTOWN magazine firmly in mind :)

I think the gist of this discussion is that there better be a comprehensive and inclusive plan to serve the city of Sacramento as well. If Sacramento wants to pass or wait on an already desired Midtown streetcar plan in favor of serving new development - there should also be a plan for the Railyards and Richards area. Those two developments will be ready years before West Sac could supply the population and workforce needed on their end.

West Sac has made leaps and bounds recently, but most everything is still in the idea phase - Sacramento is primed.

[innov8]

I’d have to agree with ozone, urban E, and TD on this streetcar matter. Sure,
W.Sac wants the streetcars, but right now the city doe’s not have enough
population or business for that matter along the riverfront or the triangle
area to support the streetcars with paying customers.

Beyond the Irontriangle development, CalSTRS and the town homes at the
intersection of where the I Street bridge enters W. Sac, … there’s not much
happening in the area, just a lot of proposals.

Mid-town and downtown Sacramento has a population, enterainment, and an
employment force that can sustain a streetcar system… W. Sac doe’s not.
I think W. Sac should have plan in place for streetcars, but I don’t think at
this time the money should be spent to extend the system over the river.
Now, if the City of W. Sac can subsidize the system on their side of the river
while they are waiting for the development and population to catch up, then
they should be part of the first phase of the plan.

[TowerDistrict]

and here are some comments from the speaker at the light rail anniversary and the author of the sacramento's streetcars book...

http://sacramentohistory.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-build-streetcars-to-nowhere.html

[foxmtbr]

Bob Shallit: High-rise condos with 'waterfront' view
By Bob Shallit - Bee Columnist
Published 12:00 am PDT Wednesday, March 14, 2007
Story appeared in BUSINESS section, Page D1

Print | E-Mail | Comments (0)

Venice by the freeway? Not exactly. But land use consultant Brian Cooley is working on a project along Highway 50 that could sprout nearly 1,000 high-rise condos and retail shops -- all situated near an existing canal.

The proposal is the second for the property, former site of the Mine Shaft Family Fun Center, which sits parallel to the busy freeway between Sunrise Boulevard and Hazel Avenue.

Auto repo magnate Patrick Willis acquired the land in 2002 and initially planned to partially restore the amusement park and use the rest for auto sales and a call center.


Talks with county and Regional Transit officials led to a change in plans for the banana-shaped parcel that backs up to the Folsom South Canal, which carries water from the American River.

Why high-rises? Given the narrow footprint of the property, "the only way to put high-density (housing) there was to go up," Cooley says.

He reports that the multi-tower project has been well-received by RT, which is considering putting a light rail station nearby. County staffers also like the idea.

"We try to encourage intense development around light-rail stations. I think our office would be supportive of this type of project," says Jeff Gamel, a Sacramento County senior planner.

Its first big test comes in a month or two, when the developer goes before the Board of Supervisors seeking designation as a "special plan area" that would exempt it from some local zoning requirements.

If that goes well, the developers will seek more detailed designs from Nadel Architects and begin what could be a decadelong building process.

Cooley sees the housing appealing to people who want access to the bike trail, Lake Natoma and eventual light rail. It also dovetails with plans being developed by Aerojet for a massive housing and retail complex -- called Westborough -- to the southeast.

What about the current housing slump?

Not a worry, Cooley says. "We won't be having housing (coming on line) until 2011 or 2012," he says. "By then, who knows what the market will look like?"

* * *

Woohoo! I would be able to see them from the window next to me right now. Although I hope to God I'm not still living at home in 2011, haha.

[SacRising]

2 million usually means more attractive anchors on local TV news. (Although Sac could still use some help in that department.)

Oh, man. I had to chime in on this comment. Not to comment on Fresno anchors, I've never seen a Fresno newscast, but I assume they all look like KFed. But do any of the Sactown locals remember the smokin' hot weather girl at KCRA, Angela Buchman? http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=446154 This isn't the best picture, but trust me, she was/is on fire. Here's a better one http://www.kcra.com/anniversary/5012422/detail.html

Thank god we have Adriene Bankert. Ok, I know this wasn't even close to the SSP topic, but I couldn't resist, I'm done.

[innov8]

Woohoo! I would be able to see them from the window next to me right now. Although I hope to God I'm not still living at home in 2011, haha.

HA! Well remember that in Rancho Cordova six floors is considered a high-rise :rolleyes:

[downtownserg89]

howdy y'all.

if you guys watch tv, and have comcast cable, which i think comes with the On Demand thing, if you go to Get Local and then to About Sacramento, there are a few shows that are pretty interesting. one of the shows is about sac's street names and how they got them, and theres this other show about the underground passageways, shows you where to access them and tells you the history, AAAAAND theres also a show about the old streetcars of back in the day! theres elderly people reminicing about the good ol' days, and well its nice to watch. just thought i'd let you guys know if you didnt already know. :cool:

[urban_encounter]

I agree that the streetcar should be built in Midtown and Downtown, but my point is that W. Sac cannot be overlooked, especially since they are the primary driver behind the streetcar effot. How arrogant to say to W.Sac, 'gee, thanks for championing this streetcar campaign, we'll talk after the Midtown line is complete.'


Sacramento's effort to put streetcars back on city streets actually began 15+ years or so ago. So saying that West Sacramento is championing the idea of streetcars, is a bit of a stretch.

I don't think anyone is overlooking West Sacramento. But currently it would be impractical to build a line on the west side of the river, because the Triangle is still 20-25 years from build out, I'm guessing. (at least)...

Whereas Midtown and Downtown already have a combined population of approximately 35,000.

[BrianSac]

I’d have to agree with ozone, urban E, and TD on this streetcar matter. Sure,
W.Sac wants the streetcars, but right now the city doe’s not have enough
population or business for that matter along the riverfront or the triangle
area to support the streetcars with paying customers.

Beyond the Irontriangle development, CalSTRS and the town homes at the
intersection of where the I Street bridge enters W. Sac, … there’s not much
happening in the area, just a lot of proposals.

Mid-town and downtown Sacramento has a population, enterainment, and an
employment force that can sustain a streetcar system… W. Sac doe’s not.
I think W. Sac should have plan in place for streetcars, but I don’t think at
this time the money should be spent to extend the system over the river.
Now, if the City of W. Sac can subsidize the system on their side of the river
while they are waiting for the development and population to catch up, then
they should be part of the first phase of the plan.

Well said, innov8! I agree with you.

[foxmtbr]

HA! Well remember that in Rancho Cordova six floors is considered a high-rise :rolleyes:

Oh, you ruined my moment of fun... :P

[joninsac]

But do any of the Sactown locals remember the smokin' hot weather girl at KCRA, Angela Buchman?

I sure do remember her. I was heartbroken when she moved to Indiana.:(

[SacRising]

Sacramento's effort to put streetcars back on city streets actually began 15+ years or so ago. So saying that West Sacramento is championing the idea of streetcars, is a bit of a stretch.

I don't think anyone is overlooking West Sacramento. But currently it would be impractical to build a line on the west side of the river, because the Triangle is still 20-25 years from build out, I'm guessing. (at least)...

Whereas Midtown and Downtown already have a combined population of approximately 35,000.

man, what is it about track alignments that gets us going? this is starting to sound like the HSR debate. build the thing in midtown/downtown, w.sac, east sac, i don't really care, just build the damn thing. it might be as likely as the HSR, though.

[Nawlijispower]

Bob Shallit: High-rise condos with 'waterfront' view
By Bob Shallit - Bee Columnist
Published 12:00 am PDT Wednesday, March 14, 2007
Story appeared in BUSINESS section, Page D1

Print | E-Mail | Comments (0)

Venice by the freeway? Not exactly. But land use consultant Brian Cooley is working on a project along Highway 50 that could sprout nearly 1,000 high-rise condos and retail shops -- all situated near an existing canal.

The proposal is the second for the property, former site of the Mine Shaft Family Fun Center, which sits parallel to the busy freeway between Sunrise Boulevard and Hazel Avenue.

Auto repo magnate Patrick Willis acquired the land in 2002 and initially planned to partially restore the amusement park and use the rest for auto sales and a call center.


Talks with county and Regional Transit officials led to a change in plans for the banana-shaped parcel that backs up to the Folsom South Canal, which carries water from the American River.

Why high-rises? Given the narrow footprint of the property, "the only way to put high-density (housing) there was to go up," Cooley says.

He reports that the multi-tower project has been well-received by RT, which is considering putting a light rail station nearby. County staffers also like the idea.

"We try to encourage intense development around light-rail stations. I think our office would be supportive of this type of project," says Jeff Gamel, a Sacramento County senior planner.

Its first big test comes in a month or two, when the developer goes before the Board of Supervisors seeking designation as a "special plan area" that would exempt it from some local zoning requirements.

If that goes well, the developers will seek more detailed designs from Nadel Architects and begin what could be a decadelong building process.

Cooley sees the housing appealing to people who want access to the bike trail, Lake Natoma and eventual light rail. It also dovetails with plans being developed by Aerojet for a massive housing and retail complex -- called Westborough -- to the southeast.

What about the current housing slump?

Not a worry, Cooley says. "We won't be having housing (coming on line) until 2011 or 2012," he says. "By then, who knows what the market will look like?"

* * *

I think that article said something about the buildings being 12 floors.

[NewToCA]

Regarding the light rail/streetcar discussion...why not go with something that doesn't require tracks, at least in the short run? Couldn't a system with smaller buses give more coverage (more streets) and better flexibility? Couldn't this be set up at much lower cost, and still provide the option for light rail/steetcars when more economically viable?

[brandon12]

^you're right, like a fake cable car on wheels. It would be way cheaper and get the job done until the money was there to put in a proper trolley-car system.

[goldcntry]

^you're right, like a fake cable car on wheels. It would be way cheaper and get the job done until the money was there to put in a proper trolley-car system.

Actually, we already have a few fake cable cars that do run around downtown. I know that they connect downtown to old sac as well as between the Zig and downtown. They also add drop-offs to the River Cats (in season). I'm not sure on how far into midtown they get.

[NewToCA]

I've seen this set up with "cute" small buses throughout downtown Cleveland, OH and Atlantic City, NJ.

It seemed pretty effective in shuttling around folks without the infrastructure required for trains. I'm not proposing this long term, but rather than have nothing why not do this for 10 years or so, have downtown and hopefully West Sac develop a bit, then go to the long term solution of a more comprehensive light rail (keeping this option open as development occurs).

I just think it is important to have some near term objectives, while the big stuff hopefully comes on line later. My caution is that the near term solutions should not become substitutes for more optimal long term set ups.

[Tenebrist]

We should be thinking of the river as a street in the central city that needs to be crossed. Both cities need to develop the infastructure now instead of waiting and planning for it.

I agree. The us (Sac) before them (West Sac) mentality may be a valid one, but I think we should start thinking of both cities as a whole.

[Tenebrist]

with the irony of reading about it in MIDTOWN magazine firmly in mind

More irony: The publisher of MIDTOWN Monthly is located in DOWNTOWN.

[Tenebrist]

Sacramento's effort to put streetcars back on city streets actually began 15+ years or so ago. So saying that West Sacramento is championing the idea of streetcars, is a bit of a stretch.

15+ years?! It's a good thing, then, that West Sac came along a few years ago and championed the idea of streetcars.

[ozone]

^you're right, like a fake cable car on wheels. It would be way cheaper and get the job done until the money was there to put in a proper trolley-car system.


The "cute" fake cable cars? :yuck:! I'm sorry but they are NOT "pretty effective in shuttling around folks" because very rarely do you see people riding them. You know why? Because people are embarrassed to be seen on those on hokey “cable car" buses.

I've started a separtate Sacramento Transportation Thread where I think these discussions could take place and haveposted some ideas that I think might work.

[downtownserg89]

oh i would ride a cute fake cable car in a heartbeat. put 'em in lavender heights. you'll get some customers.

[ozone]

oh i would ride a cute fake cable car in a heartbeat. put 'em in lavender heights. you'll get some customers.

It does travel to Lavender Heights. Do you ride it?

BTW where is the “heights” in Lavender Heights? What a dumb name.

[downtownserg89]

It does travel to Lavender Heights. Do you ride it?

BTW where is the “heights” in Lavender Heights? What a dumb name.

wait, really?

and uh, i'm not sure what the heights are for, but i know that lavender is like the official gay color, or so i heard. blue is the typical boy color, and pink is for girls. but the gays are a little bit of both genders, so they mix pink and blue and you get lavender! haha..

[Pistola916]

What about a BRT system, buses that run on lines, in Downtown/Midtown? Seattle and SF have some very good ones.

[downtownserg89]

which reminds me, sacramento needs bigger busses. for a few routes, anyway. take for example, bus 51. that bus is always crowded. and i mean cowded from front to back. sometimes it is soo full the bus driver tells people to wait for the next bus, which is another 30 mins away. it's ridiculous! we need some longer buses that hold more people.

[ozone]

which reminds me, sacramento needs bigger busses. for a few routes, anyway. take for example, bus 51. that bus is always crowded. and i mean cowded from front to back. sometimes it is soo full the bus driver tells people to wait for the next bus, which is another 30 mins away. it's ridiculous! we need some longer buses that hold more people.

I think bigger buses and BRT lines would work best on exclusive lanes that run down major arterial streets which are not mixed-use –which are mostly outside of the grid, and have transfer stations on the periphery. I know that this has been very successful elsewhere –out of the US.

I’d like to see a sizable fleet of smaller buses exclusive to the Central City which ran more often by making quicker turnarounds on shorter loops.

I know that there is a plan for a BRT tram for CSUS/65th Street Village and talk of a BRT down Stockton Blvd.

[downtownserg89]

it would be interesting to see a few BRT's around town. little by little sacramento's starting to be like san francisco! street cars, brt's, popular gay town, more high rises, open late eateries, what's next?

[ozone]

it would be interesting to see a few BRT's around town. little by little sacramento's starting to be like san francisco! street cars, brt's, popular gay town, more high rises, open late eateries, what's next?

Don't forget we both have touristy trap waterfronts with over-priced T-shirt shops and mediocre food.

What’s next? How about residents who are hopelessly lost in a haze of self-righteous entitlement and angry intercity Nimby warfare? Or housing that is too expensive that only near millionaires or those willing to live with twelve other homemates in a closet can live there?

But seriously…I’d like to see some of the gutsy architecture that SF has and I’d like not to have to go to Roseville to shop… and how about a beach (though not SF's ..more like San Diego's)...I really miss the beach.

[downtownserg89]

Don't forget we both have touristy trap waterfronts with over-priced T-shirt shops and mediocre food.

What’s next? How about residents who are hopelessly lost in a haze of self-righteous entitlement and angry intercity Nimby warfare? Or housing that is too expensive that only near millionaires and those willing to live with twelve other home mates in a one room closet can live there?

But seriously…I’d like to see some of the gutsy architecture that the supposed architecturally conservative SF has and I’d like not to have to go to Roseville to shop…

wow. now that would be a whole new level for sac! i'd like for it to keep it's "chill" vibe, like there is a good amount of people, but not too much. a few sexy skyscrapers, not a few dozen. and the housing isnt like ridiculously expensive either!

like my thing says, sactown's hitting puberty! i think it's at the stage where it barely discovered peach fuzz and the voice is starting to crackle. i would like to see sac at the age of 17, a bit more grown, still young, and wears designer jeans. haha.

[TowerDistrict]

County rejects growth change
Tsakopoulos' plea to extend planning boundary is denied.
By Mary Lynne Vellinga - Bee Staff Writer

The Sacramento County supervisors on Wednesday rejected a developer's proposal that they consider opening up 3,400 acres of pasture along the El Dorado County line for development. The unanimous vote by the five-member board followed more than five hours of testimony from people opposed to the proposal by developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos to redraw the county's growth boundary to include his property. More than 100 people signed up to speak.

The decision came despite a last-minute offer by Robert Holderness, the lawyer representing Tsakopoulos' AKT Development, to scale back the request to include only the 500 northernmost acres of the eight-mile swath Tsakopoulos had proposed. Tsakopoulos had argued that expansion north of White Rock Road by Folsom and growth in adjacent El Dorado County made his land ripe for development. Three supervisors -- Susan Peters, Roberta MacGlashan and Jimmie Yee -- last month said they needed more information before making a decision.

Planning staff members, who opposed the developer's request, returned with an arsenal of maps showing most land across the county line from the Tsakopoulos property remains zoned for agriculture, although the northern portion abuts developments with thousands of homes and a business park. "Now that we have that information, it's fairly clear that most of what's on the other side of that land is not urban development," MacGlashan said.

Peters said she was concerned that including the area in an environmental study could delay planned improvement of White Rock Road, which borders the property to the north, and jeopardize $22 million in state-approved funding. One of the most prominent people to speak against the proposal was former Supervisor Illa Collin, who received cheers as she walked to the podium.

Collin, who recently retired after serving 28 years, explained the rationale behind the growth boundary -- officially known as the urban services boundary -- which was adopted in 1993. "The county was making a statement that beyond (the line) it would be very expensive and inefficient to provide services, and the county was making a statement that this (area) was not going to urbanize," she said.

Speakers cited traffic, air quality, global warming, the need for urban revitalization and the loss of open space and habitat for birds of prey as reasons to keep growth within the boundary. Even without considering the Tsakopoulos proposal, the supervisors already have agreed to look at opening more than 20,000 acres to growth.

One of the youngest speakers was Ciara Wirth, home on spring break from Duke University. "I don't want to see the day when people ask me (what Sacramento is like) and I answer, 'There's nothing special about it, really. It's just a bunch of strip malls and low-density residential development.' "

Other speakers reminded the supervisors of the resounding defeat of Measure O, a 2000 ballot initiative sponsored by developer C.C. Myers that would have moved the growth boundary to allow building of a senior golf course community at Deer Creek Hills. After that measure was defeated, Sacramento Valley Conservancy bought the 4,000-acre Deer Creek Hills property and made it an open space preserve. Tsakopoulos' land abuts Deer Creek Hills on the east.

Graham Brownstein, executive director of the Environmental Council of Sacramento, asked the supervisors to make it clear that the urban services boundary is permanent. "Anything else sends the signal to developers that we're open for business," he said.

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2007/03/14/17/794-growth1.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.jpg

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2007/03/14/17/292-growth-32.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.gif

[ericm2031]

Shopping center developer sues Roseville Galleria owner
By Dale Kasler - Bee Staff Writer
Published 12:43 pm PDT Thursday, March 15, 2007

The mall giant that owns the Galleria at Roseville has been accused of using confidential information to try and steal tenants from a separate shopping center being developed nearby.

In a lawsuit filed in Placer County Superior Court, Sacramento developer Peter P. Bollinger says Galleria owner Westfield Corp. lured him into negotiations about a joint venture - and used confidential information gleaned from those talks to try and lure some of his tenants. away.

Bollinger is developing a project called The Fountains across the street from the Galleria. He has lined up 13 tenants, according to his Web site, and plans to break ground this spring. Nevertheless, his lawsuit is claiming $60 million in damages.

The suit says Westfield spread lies about The Fountains, and it actions cost Bollinger's project "several prospective tenants, including but not limited to Stride Rite Co., Ecco, Eurowalk, Smith & Hawken, Cheesecake Factory and West Elm."

At least one retailer, Stride Rite, was offered space at the Galleria "on more favorable terms," the suit says. Stride Rite's chief financial officer, Frank Caruso, said he had no information about the situation.

None of the retailers cited by Bollinger is doing business at the Galleria. But Bollinger's son Paul, an executive vice persident at his father's company, said in an interview Thursday that he believes Cheesecake Factory is planning to open a restaurant at the Galleria.

Officials with Cheesecake Factory couldn't be reached for comment. Westfield declined comment.

Bollinger has developed such shopping centers as Loehmann's Plaza in Sacramento. In his suit, he says Westfield approached him in 2005 about a joint venture under which the two companies would develop The Fountains together. As part of the deal, Bollinger's firm would receive an equity stake in the Galleria.

Although the two companies signed a confidentiality agreement, Westfield began leaking information about The Fountains to prospective tenants and others, the suit says. Westfield also told some of those tenants that The Fountains project was doomed, the suit says.

[tuy]

which reminds me, sacramento needs bigger busses. for a few routes, anyway. take for example, bus 51. that bus is always crowded. and i mean cowded from front to back. sometimes it is soo full the bus driver tells people to wait for the next bus, which is another 30 mins away. it's ridiculous! we need some longer buses that hold more people.

Here is the Bus you need:

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/NewsImage/2007/2007-03/2007-03-14/20070314_309016_02.jpg

[downtownserg89]

Here is the Bus you need:

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/NewsImage/2007/2007-03/2007-03-14/20070314_309016_02.jpg

holy cow! that's a behemoth!! a bus like that would solve the problem for the 51 route. however, i assume it is VERRRY difficult to maneuver. but that would definitely work. :tup:

[uzi963]

this is desperately needed. probably still not enough though...

Highway 99 projects receive $1B in state funding
Sacramento Business Journal - 2:35 PM PDT Thursday, March 15, 2007

The California Transportation Commission on Thursday recommended almost $1 billion in Proposition 1B funding for transportation improvements on Highway 99.

Proposition 1B is the Highway Safety, Traffic Reduction, Air Quality and Port Security Bond Act of 2006, passed in November.

About $19.1 million will go to upgrade the Elverta Road/Highway 99 intersection to a full freeway interchange, breaking a traffic bottleneck and easing congestion in northern Sacramento County.

Other key projects are in Stockton, Merced and elsewhere along 99.

Once two sections of the highway in Merced County are widened from a four-lane expressway to six lanes, at a cost of $248.3 million, the entire length of 99 between Bakersfield and Sacramento will have been upgraded to a full freeway.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger called 99 the "backbone of the state's transportation system."

"Thousands of people travel this route every day getting to and from work and Central Valley farmers and ranchers use Highway 99 to ensure that California's $32 billion agricultural industry continues to thrive," he said.

For a list of all Highway 99 projects that received approval go to www.dot.ca.gov and click on "State Route 99 Corridor."

[greenmidtown]

County rejects growth change
Tsakopoulos' plea to extend planning boundary is denied.
By Mary Lynne Vellinga - Bee Staff Writer

The Sacramento County supervisors on Wednesday rejected a developer's proposal that they consider opening up 3,400 acres of pasture along the El Dorado County line for development. The unanimous vote by the five-member board followed more than five hours of testimony from people opposed to the proposal by developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos to redraw the county's growth boundary to include his property. More than 100 people signed up to speak.

The decision came despite a last-minute offer by Robert Holderness, the lawyer representing Tsakopoulos' AKT Development, to scale back the request to include only the 500 northernmost acres of the eight-mile swath Tsakopoulos had proposed. Tsakopoulos had argued that expansion north of White Rock Road by Folsom and growth in adjacent El Dorado County made his land ripe for development. Three supervisors -- Susan Peters, Roberta MacGlashan and Jimmie Yee -- last month said they needed more information before making a decision.

Planning staff members, who opposed the developer's request, returned with an arsenal of maps showing most land across the county line from the Tsakopoulos property remains zoned for agriculture, although the northern portion abuts developments with thousands of homes and a business park. "Now that we have that information, it's fairly clear that most of what's on the other side of that land is not urban development," MacGlashan said.

Peters said she was concerned that including the area in an environmental study could delay planned improvement of White Rock Road, which borders the property to the north, and jeopardize $22 million in state-approved funding. One of the most prominent people to speak against the proposal was former Supervisor Illa Collin, who received cheers as she walked to the podium.

Collin, who recently retired after serving 28 years, explained the rationale behind the growth boundary -- officially known as the urban services boundary -- which was adopted in 1993. "The county was making a statement that beyond (the line) it would be very expensive and inefficient to provide services, and the county was making a statement that this (area) was not going to urbanize," she said.

Speakers cited traffic, air quality, global warming, the need for urban revitalization and the loss of open space and habitat for birds of prey as reasons to keep growth within the boundary. Even without considering the Tsakopoulos proposal, the supervisors already have agreed to look at opening more than 20,000 acres to growth.

One of the youngest speakers was Ciara Wirth, home on spring break from Duke University. "I don't want to see the day when people ask me (what Sacramento is like) and I answer, 'There's nothing special about it, really. It's just a bunch of strip malls and low-density residential development.' "

Other speakers reminded the supervisors of the resounding defeat of Measure O, a 2000 ballot initiative sponsored by developer C.C. Myers that would have moved the growth boundary to allow building of a senior golf course community at Deer Creek Hills. After that measure was defeated, Sacramento Valley Conservancy bought the 4,000-acre Deer Creek Hills property and made it an open space preserve. Tsakopoulos' land abuts Deer Creek Hills on the east.

Graham Brownstein, executive director of the Environmental Council of Sacramento, asked the supervisors to make it clear that the urban services boundary is permanent. "Anything else sends the signal to developers that we're open for business," he said.

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2007/03/14/17/794-growth1.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.jpg

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2007/03/14/17/292-growth-32.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.gif


I cheered when I heard this on the news. Can you believe it? The county actually blocked a sprawling ugly stucco development? This is Sacramento isn't it? :haha: A decision like this should be a no-brainer. You'd be hard-pressed to find any voters who support this crap development. The people already in the suburbs have had enough, the long-time residents in the suburbs long for the benefits of living in a medium-sized city, and the urban-core is tired of being overlooked. This is a good sign but it's definitely not the last battle.

[urban_encounter]

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2007/03/14/17/794-growth1.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.jpg


While I'm pleased that the County Board Supervisors rejected this attempt to circumvent the urban services boundry and allow more sprawl to the east; I have a difficult time believing Sacramento citizens were up in arms about sprawl.

More than likely, most of these people pictured above are residents of Rancho Murieta, and were simply trying to protect their exclusive right to live out there... The last thing they want is more neighbors, which would no doubt lower their property values.

In any case, the county saying no represents a rare victory for responsible growth in Sacramento County..

The County (and SACOG) need to stick to the Blueprint for growth.

[Majin]

While I'm pleased that the County Board Supervisors rejected this attempt to circumvent the urban services boundry and allow more sprawl to the east; I have a difficult time believing Sacramento citizens were up in arms about sprawl.

Wow, just wow. I typed an entire paragraph nearly saying the same exact thing and was just about to hit the submit button but I just said screw it I dont wanna start shit on here, enough drama going on already without my help.

Glad someone else said something, those same people in that picture would just as fast protest urban development in their neigorborhood.

[Phillip]

and in my many visits I've seen the area from one end to the other, and there is nothing in Fresno we don't have in Sac. Fresno still has their Krispy Kreme. The only one in Sacramento, on Arden, closed. (I think Elk Grove KK is still open.)

[innov8]

Capitol Grand (in-color)
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2166/cgelevation20070315dv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

These are photos of the renderings that were given to me on 11 x 17 sheets
of paper. I wanted to scan them but they are just to big.

Anyway, like I have said before, this is the NEW Capitol Grand rendering that is
nearly finished with the EIR process and is 965' to the top of the spire. The
top of the structure is 771' and then spire rises up 194' to the final
height of 965'. To meet parking requirements with the city, the tower has
7 leveles of above ground parking and 6 below. The below grade parking
would go down 75' and have slurry walls of 3 feet thick surrounding the hole.

My only real complaint at this point is the look of the base at the street
level. It has a bunker quality about it... could use a little work.

The Tower would use 5 different types of stone, 2 different types of glass,
2 different types of metal and 3 different types of concrete. I think that
pretty impressive for a tower of this size.

The big question... will it be built???


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9617/cgground20070315ct9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BrianSac]

Fresno still has their Krispy Kreme. The only one in Sacramento, on Arden, closed. (I think Elk Grove KK is still open.)

Dang! I was thinking of going there tonight. Im sure as hell not driving to EG.

Seriously, the best donuts are the chocolate covered raised donuts at Safeway (19th & S), then walk over to Peets and have a latte, best in town, outside of Tupelo's or Naked Coffee.:D :D

[Phillip]

Oh, man. I had to chime in on this comment. Not to comment on Fresno anchors, I've never seen a Fresno newscast, but I assume they all look like KFed. But do any of the Sactown locals remember the smokin' hot weather girl at KCRA, Angela Buchman? http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=446154 This isn't the best picture, but trust me, she was/is on fire. Here's a better one http://www.kcra.com/anniversary/5012422/detail.html

Thank god we have Adriene Bankert. Ok, I know this wasn't even close to the SSP topic, but I couldn't resist, I'm done.I never saw Angela Buchman, or I don't remember her, but I have to agree about Adriene Bankert. Every time I see Adriene on KCRA I ask myself why she's still reporting traffic in Sacramento. She's got an energy and presence that stand out. Definite anchor material. I can picture Adriene on CNN or something.

The traffic report is usually when I get up to check my email or use the bathroom. But if Adriene's on I sit still and listen. She makes "traffic is crawling along 80 through Roseville" sound like something fresh and interesting.

Didn't Oprah start out as a relief weatherman in Nashville or Memphis or someplace like that? I'd love to see old tapes of Oprah delivering the five day forecast.

[Nawlijispower]

Fresno still has their Krispy Kreme. The only one in Sacramento, on Arden, closed. (I think Elk Grove KK is still open.)

All of the KK's are closed except the one on Sunrise and Greenback. And that one distributes to all the stores.

[Phillip]

HA! Well remember that in Rancho Cordova six floors is considered a high-rise :rolleyes:Okay, innov8, you gave me an opening to post a pic I snapped in Rancho Cordova a few weeks ago. This is the old Friend's Bar and Grill at Zinfandel and Olsen. Only one floor, but probably many stories. :)


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5314/img0082nf6.jpg

[BrianSac]

All of the KK's are closed except the one on Sunrise and Greenback. And that one distributes to all the stores.

Did anyone notice that it smelled like Blueberry Pie everywhere around town this evening?:rolleyes:

[Bob Lablaw]

which reminds me, sacramento needs bigger busses. for a few routes, anyway. take for example, bus 51. that bus is always crowded. and i mean cowded from front to back. sometimes it is soo full the bus driver tells people to wait for the next bus, which is another 30 mins away. it's ridiculous! we need some longer buses that hold more people.
Back in the early '80s, RT test drove a true double decker bus from the UK on some routes for about a week or so. It was a pretty spiffy looking bus, not old-timey like what you see in London but rather like this one, except bright lemony yellow:

http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/nx/mc/library/mc_images/twm_bus103_preview.jpg

My best friend and I both skipped school that day to catch that bus, just for the novelty of it. It was a miserable rainy winter day but that bus ride was cool. I think it was the 38 line. The double-decker was way cool, but we both knew there was no way that RT was going to purchase any of them for their fleet.

[innov8]

Okay, innov8, you gave me an opening to post a pic I snapped in Rancho Cordova a few weeks ago. This is the old Friend's Bar and Grill at Zinfandel and Olsen. Only one floor, but probably many stories. :)


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5314/img0082nf6.jpg


I don't get it Phillip? :shrug:

Also BoLblaw, in Davis you can ride a London double-decker bus all day long.