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tyleraf
Dec 3, 2013, 9:35 AM
Wait! Spoonman, did you say that pinnacle is now also developing India and Beech?

spoonman
Dec 3, 2013, 3:46 PM
Wait! Spoonman, did you say that pinnacle is now also developing India and Beech?

http://martinezcutri.com/projects/11th-broadway/

^It's the same architect (according to Civic SD), but different developer.

Here is the link to the developer's site for India & Beech.

http://www.indiaandbeech.com/

Leo the Dog
Dec 3, 2013, 6:19 PM
Regarding SAN: I think you guys should be careful what you wish for. A new, larger, sprawling airport at Miramar would be an absolute disaster for the "city" of San Diego. It *might* be better for the county region many decades from now. (sd county is about as large as the state of Mass!) I used to live in Boston. They too have an inner-city airport with congestion issues, nestled in with dense neighborhoods, along the harbor, closer to DT than SAN is. This is an absolute asset for the city. Boston has arguably one of the best DT skylines and residential density in the core all while having stubby buildings just like SD.

There certainly are positives for the move, but the negatives far outweigh these. Those potential direct connections to Asia and Europe would just steer business to North County and UTC areas. Why wouldn't a north county suburb build a massive convention center to capture all that tax revenue. DTSD would flounder for decades, hotels, restaurants, clubs and even future high-rise housing would suffer.

SD Is a convention and tourism town...that's it. We don't need buildings over 500 feet. Our current DT is successful due to the close proximity of the airport. Our convention center has one of the best locations in the nation, due largely in part from its close proximity to the airport.

Do you really want a DIA in San Diego city limits? Miramar would fill-up with low density sprawl development, Hampton Inns, Chili's, maybe an office park with surface parking. There would be no train lines connecting to the airport. It would all be auto-oriented development, further stressing the 805 and 15 freeways.

Limbergh Field development would take decades to develop due to environmental issues, NIMBYs, infrastructure stress on the roads. The airport is also close to the trollies, close to the surfliner, the coaster, maybe HSR, tourists destinations such as PB, Mission, Coronado, Balboa Park.

The loss of Miramar base would be devastating to the city of SD. This is a HUGE, constant flow of Washington dollars into the SD economy.

mello
Dec 3, 2013, 6:54 PM
So how can a metro area like Seattle which is 500k or so larger than ours but is not at all as big of a tourist/convention city have Germany, Dubai, and Seoul flights? I believe they have a Tokyo and Shanghai as well...

I know they have a larger corporate base with Boeing, Microsoft, and Amazon but still they really aren't much bigger at all then us and they have a great line up of international flights?

Leo: Miramar is not that far at all from downtown I don't think it would "kill downtown business" like you said. An airport at Brown Field or 5 to 10 miles farther north then Miramar might make an impact but I would say MMR is a pretty sweet spot, still very close to beaches and such.

Urbanize_It
Dec 3, 2013, 7:30 PM
Regarding SAN: I think you guys should be careful what you wish for. A new, larger, sprawling airport at Miramar would be an absolute disaster for the "city" of San Diego. It *might* be better for the county region many decades from now. (sd county is about as large as the state of Mass!) I used to live in Boston. They too have an inner-city airport with congestion issues, nestled in with dense neighborhoods, along the harbor, closer to DT than SAN is. This is an absolute asset for the city. Boston has arguably one of the best DT skylines and residential density in the core all while having stubby buildings just like SD.

There certainly are positives for the move, but the negatives far outweigh these. Those potential direct connections to Asia and Europe would just steer business to North County and UTC areas. Why wouldn't a north county suburb build a massive convention center to capture all that tax revenue. DTSD would flounder for decades, hotels, restaurants, clubs and even future high-rise housing would suffer.

SD Is a convention and tourism town...that's it. We don't need buildings over 500 feet. Our current DT is successful due to the close proximity of the airport. Our convention center has one of the best locations in the nation, due largely in part from its close proximity to the airport.

Do you really want a DIA in San Diego city limits? Miramar would fill-up with low density sprawl development, Hampton Inns, Chili's, maybe an office park with surface parking. There would be no train lines connecting to the airport. It would all be auto-oriented development, further stressing the 805 and 15 freeways.

Limbergh Field development would take decades to develop due to environmental issues, NIMBYs, infrastructure stress on the roads. The airport is also close to the trollies, close to the surfliner, the coaster, maybe HSR, tourists destinations such as PB, Mission, Coronado, Balboa Park.

The loss of Miramar base would be devastating to the city of SD. This is a HUGE, constant flow of Washington dollars into the SD economy.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks Leo!

Streamliner
Dec 3, 2013, 7:47 PM
That's another reason I didn't think it looked like San Diego at first....



San Diego doesn't get towers that look that nice. :haha:

I know what you mean. There aren't nearly enough balconies for this to be realistic.

Urbanize_It
Dec 3, 2013, 7:47 PM
So how can a metro area like Seattle which is 500k or so larger than ours but is not at all as big of a tourist/convention city have Germany, Dubai, and Seoul flights? I believe they have a Tokyo and Shanghai as well...

I know they have a larger corporate base with Boeing, Microsoft, and Amazon but still they really aren't much bigger at all then us and they have a great line up of international flights?

Leo: Miramar is not that far at all from downtown I don't think it would "kill downtown business" like you said. An airport at Brown Field or 5 to 10 miles farther north then Miramar might make an impact but I would say MMR is a pretty sweet spot, still very close to beaches and such.

Demand.

Because, even though it kind of sucks to admit it sometimes, San Diego is a tourism and military driven “beach town” while Seattle is an American “City”. This is what the rest of the country and world thinks of the two of us. They also don’t have LA, OC, IE, and TJ airports within easy driving distance to compete with… To me this is not a complicated issue. We could build it, but I believe they would not come. Being good in business means playing well to your strengths, of which, catering to Fortune 500 companies and being a hub airport city, San Diego does not possess.

spoonman
Dec 3, 2013, 8:16 PM
Many good points from all sides. This is water under the bridge, but a few points of clarification...

- The Amtrak and Coaster rail line actually enter well into Miramar, passing close to the end of the runway.

- The trolley line to UTC (to be operational in 2018) will be only 1 mile from the edge of Miramar.

- We also know that if high-speed ever gets built (probably not for decades), the line would pass by Miramar in some fashion.

Intermodal transportation would not be a reason not to use Miramar as a new site. That said, the location could be a deterrent to downtown tourism as pointed out.

Also, Boeing is not based in Seattle, but does have significant operations there. For the record, Qualcomm has as much operating income as Boeing and Amazon put together. Does not change the fact that Seattle has done a better job attracting more Fortune 500 companies, but is worth noting.

Derek
Dec 3, 2013, 9:40 PM
Seattle's airport is also nowhere near downtown Seattle, in fact it's 14 miles away. However, a light rail line directly links the airport to downtown Seattle. Just throwing it out there. :)

SDfan
Dec 3, 2013, 11:39 PM
Regarding SAN: I think you guys should be careful what you wish for. A new, larger, sprawling airport at Miramar would be an absolute disaster for the "city" of San Diego. It *might* be better for the county region many decades from now. (sd county is about as large as the state of Mass!)

An "absolute disaster" or "might be better" for the future, which one is it?

I used to live in Boston. They too have an inner-city airport with congestion issues, nestled in with dense neighborhoods, along the harbor, closer to DT than SAN is. This is an absolute asset for the city. Boston has arguably one of the best DT skylines and residential density in the core all while having stubby buildings just like SD.

Comparing San Diego to Boston is like comparing an apple to a steak. Boston was developed as a dense urban center centuries ago. San Diego is a hamlet turned metropolis in the last 50 years. Just because Boston has an airport close to its core doesn't mean it's more dense because of it. There is something called history that clears out that argument.

Airport vicinity does not affect density levels. If Miramar was developed as an airport, I doubt Scripps Ranch or La Jolla would be racking in higher densities, nor would downtown or any of the urban neighborhoods lose their footing in gentrifying/growing up. Why? Not because SAN does or doesn't move, but because certain neighborhoods are zoned for certain densities.

Come on people, this is urban planning 101.

There certainly are positives for the move, but the negatives far outweigh these. Those potential direct connections to Asia and Europe would just steer business to North County and UTC areas. Why wouldn't a north county suburb build a massive convention center to capture all that tax revenue. DTSD would flounder for decades, hotels, restaurants, clubs and even future high-rise housing would suffer.

I doubt this, critically. We don't live in Texas or Georgia where our suburbs are desperately trying to poach our city's industries. I mean, really? Look who's up north. Who's going to build a convention center? Encinitas, where they just passed a voter referendum essentially blocking all zoning changes? Carlsbad, which is almost built out completely? Oceanside, which couldn't even entertain the idea of a Charger's Stadium for longer than 2 seconds? Nothing north of us would take the crown as the new central urban center. PS, UTC is in the city of San Diego, so unless our city leaders want to cannibalize themselves, I don't see why you're worried about that.

Yeah, we don't have sharks up there...

SD Is a convention and tourism town...that's it. We don't need buildings over 500 feet. Our current DT is successful due to the close proximity of the airport. Our convention center has one of the best locations in the nation, due largely in part from its close proximity to the airport.

I don't think there is any way to gauge visitor preference for airport location in this debate. However, I doubt that the main consideration for all visitors and convention center bookings have to do with SAN. We have things like good weather, and a nice downtown, and a large hotel base, and destinations like Sea World and the Zoo, and did I mention the weather? No one wants to go to Chicago in January for a stuffy convention of medical/hospitality/military/etc. nerds, nor would they shun a visit to San Diego because the airport is too far. If that was true, no one would go to Tokyo, Seoul, or any other city with an airport more than 10 miles away.

I'm sure if SAN moved we wouldn't see much of a drop in tourism/conventions as a result. Think about it: "Oh no, the San Diego airport is 20 minutes father from downtown than it used to be... guess we're going to Topeka!" (did I forget to mention the weather?)

Do you really want a DIA in San Diego city limits? Miramar would fill-up with low density sprawl development, Hampton Inns, Chili's, maybe an office park with surface parking.

This would be problematic. You don't lose points here.

There would be no train lines connecting to the airport. It would all be auto-oriented development, further stressing the 805 and 15 freeways.


Take out a Thomas Guide or google San Diego's rail lines. Then research San Diego's rail future through SANDAG, and yeah... They all kind of do this weird thing where they pass through or by Miramar. I don't know, it's really odd, but it's true. Go look it up.

Limbergh Field development would take decades to develop due to environmental issues, NIMBYs, infrastructure stress on the roads.

This is true.

The airport is also close to the trollies, close to the surfliner, the coaster, maybe HSR, tourists destinations such as PB, Mission, Coronado, Balboa Park.

Just because something is closer doesn't make it better or more efficient automatically. Just because it's more convenient location-wise to downtown, doesn't make it better all around. That's not logical at all.

The loss of Miramar base would be devastating to the city of SD. This is a HUGE, constant flow of Washington dollars into the SD economy.

No doubt about it, but San Diego's future shouldn't be dictated by the military industrial complex that we've been a slave to for the last century. Clinging to something that isn't necessary (which by the way, future BRACs may determine to be true) while also holding us back isn't forward thinking or progressive. It hinders our economy and the lessens our potential. But hey, San Diego has been doing this to itself for years, so why not another century of masochistic economic and development policy?


Now I don't mean to be a dick, but I will say to my pro-Miramar friends that it ain't going to happen. We live in one of the least progressive cities in terms of infrastructure and development planning. We are the Barry Goldwater of train, planes, and cars. It will not happen even if Miramar is closed through BRAC. Why? Partially because San Diegans are short sighted, small minded, and think they live in a community of 300 people, not 3 million. We like our ways and we leave it at that. Secondly, Miramar would mean airplanes over La Jolla, Scripps Ranch, and UTC. I don't know about you, but if there were ever NIMBY communities not to piss off, it would be the neighborhoods to the north. Need I remind anyone of the hell that One Paseo is going through in Carmel Valley? Imagine all of those sparkling, privileged neighborhoods teaming up against any Miramar effort?

No airport up there. Ever. La Jolla would need to slide into the Pacific, and Scripps Ranch would need to burn in another wild fire before that gets through.

Sorry.

tyleraf
Dec 3, 2013, 11:47 PM
County Board of Supervisors unanimously backs Olympic Bid for 2024! http://www.sandiego6.com/story/san-diego-county-supervisors-back-committee-exploring-bidding-for-the-2024-summer-olympics-20131203

SDfan
Dec 3, 2013, 11:52 PM
County Board of Supervisors unanimously backs Olympic Bid for 2024! http://www.sandiego6.com/story/san-diego-county-supervisors-back-committee-exploring-bidding-for-the-2024-summer-olympics-20131203

YAY! Even if the bid never happens or fails, it could provide us with a positive blueprint for improving our regions future in a greater sense than any SANDAG report on freeway circulation ever could. :D

mello
Dec 4, 2013, 12:16 AM
"Scripps Ranch would need to burn in another wild fire before that gets through".

Look at a map the runway at Mira Mar is well South of Scripps ranch so planes coming in for a landing would not be flying over head in SR at all. It would probably be like when you first enter South Park after that Canyon. You could see them just to the South but the noise wouldn't be that bad. I lived on Ivy Street in South Park for 3 months and the noise wasn't a bother you could hear it but 6 blocks south it was terrible of course.

Regarding La Jolla if the runway was set back enough the noise wouldn't be too bad it would probably be like New Port beach since John Wayne is another mile or two farther inland than Lindbergh field when they pass over the beach in Newport they aren't that loud really. Once again noticeable but not WTF! loud like in Point Loma.

SDfan
Dec 4, 2013, 12:45 AM
"Scripps Ranch would need to burn in another wild fire before that gets through".

Look at a map the runway at Mira Mar is well South of Scripps ranch so planes coming in for a landing would not be flying over head in SR at all. It would probably be like when you first enter South Park after that Canyon. You could see them just to the South but the noise wouldn't be that bad. I lived on Ivy Street in South Park for 3 months and the noise wasn't a bother you could hear it but 6 blocks south it was terrible of course.

Regarding La Jolla if the runway was set back enough the noise wouldn't be too bad it would probably be like New Port beach since John Wayne is another mile or two farther inland than Lindbergh field when they pass over the beach in Newport they aren't that loud really. Once again noticeable but not WTF! loud like in Point Loma.

"Aren't that loud really" is pretty subjective when you're messing with people's property values. I don't care if you can hear the airport loud or not, the people living nearby would have field day if they were told there would be a 24 hour commercial airport in their backyard.

I live in Golden Hill, and the noise is redundant but negligible. But that's because it has been like this, and will probably always be like this, and I'm used to it.

Imagine buying a multimillion dollar home in La Jolla, or even a nice 400k-600k place in Mira Mesa, Scripps Ranch, or University City. Then imagine being told a large international airport was going to be built in your little slice of heaven.

Community opposition much? Hell yeah. You have to be realistic here. Are you right about Miramar in terms of efficiency, need, and logic? Yes. You are.

But this is San Diego, and we don't play by those rules. If it blocks my view, makes too much noise, or ruins my privileged aesthetic, then hell no.

Don't mean to be a debby downer, just looking at the facts on the NIMBY ground.

mello
Dec 4, 2013, 12:58 AM
University City will get shredded yes that will be like Ocean Beach now, not quite as bad as the hills of Loma Portal which are terrible. Scripps ranch actually would be akin to Redwood Street in North Park or Schwitzer Canyon just South of there. And remember that jet engines will only get quieter over time. Have you heard how quiet the 787 is? Its amazing that thing is so nice. So the technology is there is will just take time for it to be put in to commercial use.


I think the realistic solution is Palomar Airport becoming like a mini Ft. Lauderdale maybe eventually handling 5 million passengers a year while Tijuana handles maybe 2 million per year that Lindbergh would have handled other wise so that 7 million total will put us at 28 to 30 mill or so per year combined with SAN that should be sufficient.

spoonman
Dec 4, 2013, 3:05 AM
University City will get shredded yes that will be like Ocean Beach now, not quite as bad as the hills of Loma Portal which are terrible. Scripps ranch actually would be akin to Redwood Street in North Park or Schwitzer Canyon just South of there. And remember that jet engines will only get quieter over time. Have you heard how quiet the 787 is? Its amazing that thing is so nice. So the technology is there is will just take time for it to be put in to commercial use.


I think the realistic solution is Palomar Airport becoming like a mini Ft. Lauderdale maybe eventually handling 5 million passengers a year while Tijuana handles maybe 2 million per year that Lindbergh would have handled other wise so that 7 million total will put us at 28 to 30 mill or so per year combined with SAN that should be sufficient.

Eventually the city will kick the remaining General Aviation out of SAN, freeing additional runway capacity, ultimately buying more time.

********************

I'm curious if people here had to pick, would you opt to build a new airport at Miramar, or build sterile US terminals at TIJ, which would you pick?

Miramar would not have to be shared, and would be more central than TIJ. TIJ however would combine SAN and TIJ traffic, and could create some synergy as a regional hub.

It is hard to identify which would have a lower cost, as both facilities already have runways, but no usable terminals.

spoonman
Dec 4, 2013, 4:35 AM
This article is timely given all of the airport discussion...

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/03/lindbergh-airport-rental-car-bids-small-business/

Highlights include:

- New Rental Car structure
- Roadway around runway to transport rental car customers (and likely for future service to the trolley stop)
- New Landmark Avitaion FBO/Terminal
- Old rental car land near Harbor Island to be redeveloped by Port of San Diego
- Teledyne Ryan land to be used by airport
- Terminal 1 is being reviewed for replacement

airlinersdotnet
Dec 4, 2013, 5:28 AM
This really isn't the case. There are 15 airlines with the 787. Only one operates it to SAN. Airlines aren't flying to SAN because of the runway or facilities. They aren't flying to SAN because the planes would be empty.


Well, of those 15, only a fraction are running flights to the USA with their 787s. And most don't have that many really, maybe 2 or 3 frames...so your point is a little misleading.

BA flies a 777-200 into and out of SAN. The weight restrictions on the outbound flight aren't too bad on that aircraft. There has always been demand for LHR service. The flight is doing quite well.

For the 787-800 there is not much in the way of restrictions (read - more cargo). For this very reason, to think that the ONLY thing restricting international long-haul service to SAN is demand, is foolish. The 787 is proof. It's about yields, not how many seats you fill...

There is absolutely demand for additional international service to Europe with the 787. SAN could support another direct link to Europe - either to CDG or FRA. Problem is neither Air France or Luftansa have 787's.

I also believe service to south east asia, perhaps through Phillippine Airlines is a possibility, if they fly a SAN-YVR-MNL route.

I could also see the 787 or A350 opening a route to Australia on Qantas. They could easily code-share with the British Airways flight to LHR or any American Airlines flight as they all belong to the same alliance.

Derek
Dec 4, 2013, 5:43 AM
I remember Philippine Airlines was going to start service to San Diego a few years ago, but it was cancelled when their safety rating was downgraded. :(

TransAustin
Dec 4, 2013, 8:07 AM
Pretty cool infographic I found
http://www.selfstorage.com/content/san-diegos-changing-skyline/#lightbox/0/

dales5050
Dec 4, 2013, 4:52 PM
Many good points from all sides. This is water under the bridge, but a few points of clarification...

- The Amtrak and Coaster rail line actually enter well into Miramar, passing close to the end of the runway.

- The trolley line to UTC (to be operational in 2018) will be only 1 mile from the edge of Miramar.

- We also know that if high-speed ever gets built (probably not for decades), the line would pass by Miramar in some fashion.

Intermodal transportation would not be a reason not to use Miramar as a new site. That said, the location could be a deterrent to downtown tourism as pointed out.

Was just thinking about the impact of HS rail on the projections to the airport. I think it's going to be a 'do as best you can for as little as possible' until HS Rail comes...if it ever does. But if it does, I think everything will be up for consideration.

I wonder what an successful bid for the Olympics would do for HS rail. Never understood why the priority was not to connect LA to San Diego first.

Also, Boeing is not based in Seattle, but does have significant operations there. For the record, Qualcomm has as much operating income as Boeing and Amazon put together. Does not change the fact that Seattle has done a better job attracting more Fortune 500 companies, but is worth noting.

The answer is pretty simple. http://taxfoundation.org/article/2013-state-business-tax-climate-index

Washington ranks #6 in this State Business Tax Climate Index.
California ranks #48. :/

dales5050
Dec 4, 2013, 4:56 PM
India and Beech Tower - Saw this for SD while looking around for another project. Dunno the location.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7328/11174167916_cc0f2d347b_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2817/11174310963_19877aae82_b.jpg


28-story apartment high-rise
159 units; 731 square foot average
Mechanical parking system


http://www.humphreys.com/portfolio/on-the-boards-6/

Love the design but the views are going to be average to poor.

staplesla
Dec 4, 2013, 8:53 PM
Any clue when Blue Sky will break ground?

SDCAL
Dec 5, 2013, 4:39 AM
http://www.humphreys.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/I-and-B-Tower.jpg

Holy crap! I see the County Administration Center now. I wish it actually looked like that...

No kidding - I'm so perplexed by this rendering.

Is it normal for a reputable firm to just make-up surroundings to enhance their images?

It's not as if it's a generic background, that's clearly the county admin bldg.

Maybe this is supposed to include the county administration bldg park and part of either the north or south embarcadero?

I'm confused though because it looks like a road is right on the water and i was under the impression the embarcadero moved the road in and the park will be right up to the water.

At any rate, I WISH our waterfront had this kind of park space.

Leo the Dog
Dec 5, 2013, 5:42 PM
No kidding - I'm so perplexed by this rendering.

Is it normal for a reputable firm to just make-up surroundings to enhance their images?

It's not as if it's a generic background, that's clearly the county admin bldg.

Maybe this is supposed to include the county administration bldg park and part of either the north or south embarcadero?

I'm confused though because it looks like a road is right on the water and i was under the impression the embarcadero moved the road in and the park will be right up to the water.

At any rate, I WISH our waterfront had this kind of park space.

Most artist renditions of proposed buildings include overly lush landscaping, abundant pedestrians, hidden utility poles etc...but this one takes the cake. It looks like Chicago near the lakefront! I do like the design though.

spoonman
Dec 5, 2013, 6:11 PM
Most artist renditions of proposed buildings include overly lush landscaping, abundant pedestrians, hidden utility poles etc...but this one takes the cake. It looks like Chicago near the lakefront! I do like the design though.

Yeah, I don't think the building will come out looking like that either.

Below is the project's website. The images look detailed enough to make me think that this is what the building will look like, as opposed to the sleek tower shown in previous posts.

http://www.indiaandbeech.com/

tyleraf
Dec 5, 2013, 11:55 PM
Spoonman: The India and Beech property was up for sale as far as I could tell. It's possible a new developer purchased the property and hired this company for a new design. That's my guess.

Bertrice
Dec 6, 2013, 2:06 AM
http://www.countynewscenter.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/news_detail_thumb/news/inner/CedarKettnerGarageGroundbreaking.jpg
http://www.countynewscenter.com/news/county-goes-big-little-italy-parking-structure
new parking in little italy

tyleraf
Dec 6, 2013, 2:36 AM
At least they are including room for a residential tower in the future.

dales5050
Dec 6, 2013, 5:08 PM
Yeah, I don't think the building will come out looking like that either.

Below is the project's website. The images look detailed enough to make me think that this is what the building will look like, as opposed to the sleek tower shown in previous posts.

http://www.indiaandbeech.com/

Always amazed when something like this project, which will cost millions, can have such a cheap website.

Also, the 'panoramic view tool' on the lower floors shows only 180 degrees. lol

mello
Dec 6, 2013, 5:25 PM
Wow only a year and a half to finish a parking structure! That is the can do spirit of America's finest city at work once again. (Atlanta's tallest skyscraper took under one year to complete)

Are there only 5 day laborers from ManPower allocated to build this project :shrug:

psychotron
Dec 6, 2013, 5:37 PM
Wow only a year and a half to finish a parking structure! That is the can do spirit of America's finest city at work once again. (Atlanta's tallest skyscraper took under one year to complete)

Are there only 5 day laborers from ManPower allocated to build this project :shrug:

It does seem slow, but honestly I feel like that's the norm for CA's construction climate, with SD's particularly slow. :( Granted, Bank of America Plaza in Atlanta was also one of the fastest constructions.

spoonman
Dec 6, 2013, 6:34 PM
Wow only a year and a half to finish a parking structure! That is the can do spirit of America's finest city at work once again. (Atlanta's tallest skyscraper took under one year to complete)

Are there only 5 day laborers from ManPower allocated to build this project :shrug:

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Seems like a 6 month project.

mello
Dec 6, 2013, 6:46 PM
You can call us Slow Diego!

Or Ban Diego after the beach booze ban and all the signs telling you what you can't do on our beaches.

How about No Diego for all the 30 foot height limits outside of downtown crowd and good ole SOHO and the like. Great Walgreens on 3rd and University when we could have had an awesome infill project there :uhh: That was such a sick wasted opportunity a one floor Walgreens with a parking lot, not one added housing unit which is desperately needed in Hillcrest....

Bertrice
Dec 6, 2013, 6:50 PM
Wow only a year and a half to finish a parking structure! That is the can do spirit of America's finest city at work once again. (Atlanta's tallest skyscraper took under one year to complete)

Are there only 5 day laborers from ManPower allocated to build this project :shrug:

what about the horton plaza park's pace. 2 years to build nothing. just a ground floor.

Erip
Dec 7, 2013, 10:38 PM
Wow, this is a great resource to keep up to date on all projects:
http://infrastructure.opensandiego.org

Streamliner
Dec 10, 2013, 5:44 AM
Union-Tribune: San Diego OKs plan to double bicycle network.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/09/san-diego-bicycle-master-plan/

tyleraf
Dec 11, 2013, 9:33 PM
Nice to hear about further bike improvements. Those are always welcome. Coupled with next year bike sharing, San Diego is definitely becoming very bike friendly. Also the Marriott Ballroom is now supposed to start in 2015. http://www.4-traders.com/news/New-San-Diego-Hotel-Project-Includes-Walkway-Connecting-Downtown-to-the-Bay--17605560/

Nerv
Dec 12, 2013, 9:46 PM
Nice to hear about further bike improvements. Those are always welcome. Coupled with next year bike sharing, San Diego is definitely becoming very bike friendly. Also the Marriott Ballroom is now supposed to start in 2015. http://www.4-traders.com/news/New-San-Diego-Hotel-Project-Includes-Walkway-Connecting-Downtown-to-the-Bay--17605560/



Very cool. This is the project I was asking about before. This will be a big deal for larger conventions like comic con. More space to spread it out.

:tup:

tyleraf
Dec 13, 2013, 3:34 AM
Here is an interesting article on all the activity in East Village. Unfortunately the second page has a paywall. http://www.ideadistrictsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Vibe-Vision-and-Commerce-Make-East-Village-the-Hot-Spot-_-San-Diego-Business-Journal.pdf

Northparkwizard
Dec 17, 2013, 6:13 AM
Another Waterfront Park update was posted, Fountain Time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jKu90qKqM8&feature=youtu.be).

tyleraf
Dec 17, 2013, 9:17 PM
The new downtown courthouse is about to get started! http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/16/county-courthouse-trentacosta-filner-new-high-rise/

Urbanize_It
Dec 18, 2013, 5:20 AM
The new downtown courthouse is about to get started! http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/16/county-courthouse-trentacosta-filner-new-high-rise/

Woohoo! That is great news!

I know some do not like the design, but I really do. It is sleek and grand to me. Sure it won't do much, or anything, to liven up the area after 5pm, but I am actually ok with that. Not every acre of downtown needs to be "mixed use" and utilized 24hrs a day. I mean, its just a courthouse after all. JMHO. :)

kpexpress
Dec 18, 2013, 7:25 AM
India and Beech Tower - Saw this for SD while looking around for another project. Dunno the location.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7328/11174167916_cc0f2d347b_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2817/11174310963_19877aae82_b.jpg


28-story apartment high-rise
159 units; 731 square foot average
Mechanical parking system


http://www.humphreys.com/portfolio/on-the-boards-6/


This is a 10K site, why would they setback that far on the ground level? That tells me this cannot be real....even with mechanical parking.

HurricaneHugo
Dec 18, 2013, 8:12 AM
10K site?

What's that?

tyleraf
Dec 18, 2013, 4:59 PM
HurricaneHugo: Its a 10,000 square foot site.

JPAztec
Dec 18, 2013, 9:57 PM
This is a 10K site, why would they setback that far on the ground level? That tells me this cannot be real....even with mechanical parking.

Wonder if the buildings angle compared the to the street has any effect on not utilizing the entire lot? As in not fitting a square onto a square....anyone follow? Haha. I could be way off, just trying to wrap my mind around it, thinking simply I suppose.

Bertrice
Dec 20, 2013, 1:20 AM
The horton plaza park website gives two different dates for completion

http://www.westfield.com/hortonplaza/assets/pdfs/horton-plaza-newsletter.pdf

http://www.westfield.com/hortonplaza/news-and-events/horton-plaza-park

tyleraf
Dec 20, 2013, 1:37 AM
From what I've read on CivicSDs website the park will open late 2014 in time for the Balboa Park centennial.

SDfan
Dec 20, 2013, 1:54 AM
Anyone heard of this project at 5th and Palm? It's 150ft.

http://jwdainc.com/projects/5th-and-palm/

SDfan
Dec 20, 2013, 1:55 AM
Here are more renderings of Lane Field.

http://jwdainc.com/projects/lane-field/

SDfan
Dec 20, 2013, 1:59 AM
New Hotels at Liberty Station:

http://jwdainc.com/liberty-station-hotels-approved/

Bertrice
Dec 20, 2013, 2:19 AM
New Hotels at Liberty Station:

http://jwdainc.com/liberty-station-hotels-approved/

must be the east hotel at the top of this small image

http://www.ntclibertystation.com/_images/LS_Site_Map-Small.jpg

spoonman
Dec 20, 2013, 5:16 AM
Anyone heard of this project at 5th and Palm? It's 150ft.

http://jwdainc.com/projects/5th-and-palm/

I found a report with more info on this project.

https://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/pdf/hearingofficer/reports/2013/HO-13-068.pdf

Looks like it will be two 150ft towers. One will be a limited service hotel, and the other will be residential. It appears to already have been permitted.

tyleraf
Dec 20, 2013, 5:18 AM
That's exciting! Always great to see Bankers hill getting more height.

mello
Dec 20, 2013, 10:52 PM
Wow Bankers Hill will be getting a little Condo Canyon/Towers lining the park feel going if this Palm and 5th get built along with the 15 and 13 floor towers at St. Paul's which have been approved for 2 years now just south of there...

I think this is a great model for Bankers Hill and I think towers of 30 to 40 floors would be perfect in Mission Valley, no views to block only views to be had to the Ocean, Del Cerro/Cowles Mountain hills and the rim of the valley!

tyleraf
Dec 25, 2013, 11:39 PM
It's a little old, but I thought I'd post it anyway. Almost all the street lights downtown will be switched out by next year.http://sandiegodowntownnews.com/a-nod-to-the-past-with-a-look-to-the-future-3/ Merry Christmas everyone!

Streamliner
Dec 26, 2013, 7:51 PM
It's a little old, but I thought I'd post it anyway. Almost all the street lights downtown will be switched out by next year.http://sandiegodowntownnews.com/a-nod-to-the-past-with-a-look-to-the-future-3/ Merry Christmas everyone!

Those look nice. Has anyone seen those at night? How do they look compared to what's already there?

I'm glad that the City is phasing out all of those old orange low pressure sodium lights. Well, most of them.

Urbanize_It
Dec 27, 2013, 1:38 AM
It's a little old, but I thought I'd post it anyway. Almost all the street lights downtown will be switched out by next year.http://sandiegodowntownnews.com/a-nod-to-the-past-with-a-look-to-the-future-3/ Merry Christmas everyone!

That‘s great news! Thanks for the link tyleraf. Those acorn lights we currently have shine more light up into my 2nd floor unit than they do down to the street. What a terrible idea those were.

tyleraf
Dec 27, 2013, 2:48 AM
Here is a Voice of San Diego article on the rise of urban thinking this year in San Diego. Enjoy. http://voiceofsandiego.org/2013/12/26/a-year-of-urban-thinking-in-san-diego/ Hopefully we stay course next year.

Prahaboheme
Dec 27, 2013, 6:55 PM
Those look nice. Has anyone seen those at night? How do they look compared to what's already there?

I'm glad that the City is phasing out all of those old orange low pressure sodium lights. Well, most of them.

They look great. Aesthetically pleasing and also much easier on the eye than the acorn lights. I like that they pay homage to historic SD streetlamps but also have a modern touch.

Bertrice
Dec 28, 2013, 5:11 PM
I know its not dt but I was in OB for the first time in years. I don't know why. hodads line is ridic. panhandled by a 20 something white male anyway I saw this empty lot on Abbott

http://media.sdreader.com/img/photos/2013/10/18/3bulld_t658.png?ff95ca2b4c25d2d6ff3bfb257febf11d604414e5 (http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2013/oct/18/stringers-new-beachfront-homes-built-ocean-beach/)

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2013/oct/18/stringers-new-beachfront-homes-built-ocean-beach/

tyleraf
Dec 31, 2013, 5:36 AM
This could be exciting! http://www.sddt.com/News/article.cfm?SourceCode=20131230czd&_t=Developers+sought+for+two+downtown+mixeduse+parcels#.UsJUr3-9KK0

Leo the Dog
Dec 31, 2013, 7:45 PM
I know its not dt but I was in OB for the first time in years. I don't know why. hodads line is ridic. panhandled by a 20 something white male anyway I saw this empty lot on Abbott

I'm amazed that OB people let this happen. Seems like they're anti-everything down there. With that said, SD beach communities are really starting to look worn. It'd be nice if more redevelopment would occur.

tyleraf
Dec 31, 2013, 9:58 PM
I agree! I wish that they would remove the coastal height limit. I'd love to see some height around our beaches.

Chapelo
Jan 1, 2014, 6:36 PM
I've been living in OB since 1976, trust me, it ain't gonna happen any time soon. The neighborhood will fight it tooth and nail (and yes, myself included).

I don't mind skyscrapers (obviously), but we don't need them at the beach. This ain't Miami, nor do we want it becoming that.

And that unit at the corner of Saratoga and Abbott was granted a variance by the city. Underground parking? If we get another El Niño again, that parking garage will be flooded. That intersection has been underwater more times than I can count.

eburress
Jan 2, 2014, 3:10 AM
I would personally love to see San Diego become more Miami-like. Perhaps not everywhere, but a mini South Beach here or there would be great, IMO.

Nerv
Jan 2, 2014, 5:23 PM
Encinitas recently passed a measure that anything over 30 feet in the city be put to a vote. They actually want the people who live there to have some control over the size of projects. This might be a trend for other cities in the future.

I have mixed feelings with these kind of measures. Voters should have some control but they aren't always in the best position to make some calls. Good reason why we have problems placing airports,power stations,trash dumps and even gas stations in the city. NIMBY.


That said, I don't think the San Diego area is going to destroy its beaches with high rises anytime soon. They complain about walling off part of the city with hotels and a convention center in a area zoned for high rises so I don't see a high rise invasion of our coastal cities happening in the near future. I can already hear a battle cry not to wall off our beaches.

Miami is one of my least favourite cities in the US partly because they built so much on their beaches. I see them as a bad example to follow. It's always great as a tourist to have your hotel on the beach when visiting but not so great for the people who actually have to live there.

spoonman
Jan 7, 2014, 11:43 PM
Did this thread die, or what?

tyleraf
Jan 8, 2014, 1:57 AM
Here are some photos from around the city that I've taken recently.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3726/11828410995_cc9af70dbb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828410995/)
North Embarcadero (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828410995/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/11828404685_ac3c61578c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828404685/)
Downtown San Diego (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828404685/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/11829210326_3ea77818fe.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11829210326/)
Embarcadero (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11829210326/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7368/11829086926_e3aa90e93a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11829086926/)
Downtown San Diego (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11829086926/)
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/11828354025_7a61e2a1f1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828354025/)
San Diego Skyline (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828354025/)
UTC
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3812/11828319305_6d9c524238.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828319305/)
University City (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96153353@N08/11828319305/)

mello
Jan 8, 2014, 3:10 AM
So what are you guys thinking about 2014's prospects for infill outside of downtown? I noticed a .6 acre lot just south of El Cajon BLVD on Texas street which is zoned for a multi family project still sitting there. Park BLVD just south of Sprouts that lot still has no shovels in the ground. BLVD 63 the huge project on EL Cajon will be geared towards SDSU students and 3 bedrooms are going for 3K there I heard because 6 people will be living in them paying 500 each per month.

Across the street is another fairly big lot which should have more apartments coming online there. Civita looks like it is picking up steam and hopefully they will start building faster. I was very disappointed to see that an affordable housing component was not incorporated in to the new YMCA on El Cajon and 43rd I think 3 or 4 floors of housing on top of the YMCA would have set a solid precedent but it will just be a 2 story structure with no housing.

tyleraf
Jan 9, 2014, 1:54 AM
The central library is being lit in blue and gold in support of the chargers.

Bertrice
Jan 9, 2014, 7:16 AM
The central library is being lit in blue and gold in support of the chargers.

looks green to me

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdgnqpQCYAAyMnI.png:large

SDfan
Jan 9, 2014, 3:58 PM
Fun article. I would love to see a rendering of what had been proposed previous to the Union Bank building.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/09/union-bank-building-sold-b-street/

The site occupies a storied history in downtown lore. It was the site of the Pantages/Orpheum movie theater, built in 1924. In 1962 Del E. Webb Corp. of Phoenix proposed a twin-tower complex connected over B Street by a 1,000-space parking garage, topped by a pedestrian deck with shops and restaurants.

Leo the Dog
Jan 9, 2014, 4:21 PM
So what are you guys thinking about 2014's prospects for infill outside of downtown? I noticed a .6 acre lot just south of El Cajon BLVD on Texas street which is zoned for a multi family project still sitting there. Park BLVD just south of Sprouts that lot still has no shovels in the ground. BLVD 63 the huge project on EL Cajon will be geared towards SDSU students and 3 bedrooms are going for 3K there I heard because 6 people will be living in them paying 500 each per month.

Across the street is another fairly big lot which should have more apartments coming online there. Civita looks like it is picking up steam and hopefully they will start building faster. I was very disappointed to see that an affordable housing component was not incorporated in to the new YMCA on El Cajon and 43rd I think 3 or 4 floors of housing on top of the YMCA would have set a solid precedent but it will just be a 2 story structure with no housing.

Yeah I've been noticing a surge in in-fill development in mid-city area. The OB development was another example and the crown point development on Ingraham/La Playa is a great addition, replacing an old vacant gas station.

tyleraf
Jan 9, 2014, 5:18 PM
I love that the Union Bank building will try to attract more start ups. Downtown is starting to become a tech hotspot.

TransAustin
Jan 9, 2014, 7:26 PM
2013 CivicSD project status logs uploaded. Pacific & Broadway set for 7/14 construction.
http://civicsd.com/images/stories/downloads/meetings-and-events/event-calendar/2013/Final_2013_Log.pdf

tyleraf
Jan 9, 2014, 8:11 PM
Thanks TransAustin! So, according to the info provided by the link we will have at least 8 new projects beginning next year.

SDfan
Jan 10, 2014, 1:27 AM
NBC is leaving downtown in 2016. :(


http://www.hughesmarino.com/hughes-marino-blog/nbc-bridgepoint-leaving-downtown-ymca-building-going-to-auction/

tyleraf
Jan 10, 2014, 1:44 AM
It's sad to hear about NBC. The YMCA building going up for auction. Hopefully a developer picks it up and builds a tower on the site.

SDfan
Jan 10, 2014, 2:54 AM
It's sad to hear about NBC. The YMCA building going up for auction. Hopefully a developer picks it up and builds a tower on the site.

I think the YMCA is historically designated, like the YWCA building by City College Station. There was a condo tower proposal for the YWCA building way back in the day, but it was scuttled because the developer couldn't incorporate the structure into their project.

tyleraf
Jan 10, 2014, 5:10 AM
Maybe they could do something like bosa did with the old SDG&E building.

Derek
Jan 10, 2014, 8:49 AM
NBC is leaving downtown in 2016. :(


http://www.hughesmarino.com/hughes-marino-blog/nbc-bridgepoint-leaving-downtown-ymca-building-going-to-auction/

Wow, that's actually really terrible news for downtown San Diego. :(

Prahaboheme
Jan 10, 2014, 4:49 PM
Hopefully whatever replaces NBC will have good street interaction and roll into Horton Plaza. This is no doubt a loss for downtown San Diego, but it can still be redeveloped into a more pedestrian friendly stretch given it's fantastic location.

Nerv
Jan 10, 2014, 7:43 PM
That is bad news for downtown. Hopefully it doesn't end up with two empty or mostly empty buildings for long. No mention of any interest by others I noticed.

Local TV news has been on ratings skids for a while so it sounds like another cost cutting effort. Wonder where they'll end up. TJ? Lol... :D

Northparkwizard
Jan 11, 2014, 9:23 PM
Whatever happened to the international competition to light the San Diego/Coronado bridge? It's a shame that it seems like that idea came and went. I loved the bridge tube idea (http://www.10news.com/news/elaborate-pedestrian-tube-proposed-for-coronado-bay-bridge-021413) It would offer such amazing views that you otherwise wouldn't be able to see except from a moving vehicle, tourists would go bananas for that, shoot I'd go bananas for that. Such a obvious opportunity for a new San Diego capital improvement project, alas we lack leaders with the vision or aptitude to rally support for these types of things anymore.

tyleraf
Jan 11, 2014, 11:45 PM
I saw an article on the bridge lighting last year. They want to have it done by the end of this year.

Nerv
Jan 12, 2014, 6:00 AM
They started the fund raising for the bridge lights a little more than a year ago. Anyone know how close they are to funding it? They needed 8 million and the goal was to have it lit up by the balboa park centennial in 2015. It seems like a small thing but I really think the lights would be a step in giving the bridge and city another identifying mark to it. I like the choice they went with...:tup:

dales5050
Jan 13, 2014, 12:18 AM
Hopefully whatever replaces NBC will have good street interaction and roll into Horton Plaza. This is no doubt a loss for downtown San Diego, but it can still be redeveloped into a more pedestrian friendly stretch given it's fantastic location.


I think with the new park that's going in this will at the end of the day be an improvement.

Puzzlecraft
Jan 13, 2014, 6:43 PM
I recently traveled east during the holidays and snapped this picture of San Diego. What this picture brings to me is just how large the airport is compared to the high-rise section of downtown San Diego.

I know the airport isn't moving anytime soon, if ever, but that airport land is sure a massive development begging to happen!

http://www.custompuzzlecraft.com/SanDiego/sandiego_20131224.jpg

tyleraf
Jan 13, 2014, 7:10 PM
Puzzlecraft:The port is considering moving the airport, from what I've read.

Derek
Jan 13, 2014, 7:11 PM
Imagine Coronado with more mid-rises....:slob:

tyleraf
Jan 13, 2014, 7:17 PM
Yes Please!!!

Puzzlecraft
Jan 13, 2014, 7:30 PM
This shot is more expansive, giving another perspective on the land taken up by the airport as well as a lot more. These shots are hard to get as usually there is at least some marine layer in the morning.

http://www.custompuzzlecraft.com/SanDiego/sandiego_20131224b.jpg

tyleraf
Jan 13, 2014, 9:21 PM
Beautiful pics Puzzlecraft! Do you have a larger version of that shot that you could link to?

spoonman
Jan 14, 2014, 6:24 AM
Puzzlecraft:The port is considering moving the airport, from what I've read.

Do you have a source for this? Historically this has been discussed, but as far as I know, this has been dead for a few years.

aerogt3
Jan 14, 2014, 9:23 AM
I know the airport isn't moving anytime soon, if ever, but that airport land is sure a massive development begging to happen!

Yet so much of downtown is vacant dirt and parking lots :(

spoonman
Jan 14, 2014, 3:51 PM
Yet so much of downtown is vacant dirt and parking lots :(

It seems that providing developers large swaths of land generally results in low density developments anyhow.

Prahaboheme
Jan 14, 2014, 4:22 PM
As fun as a huge skyline would be (and San Diego's isn't that bad given the height restrictions), I'm much more interested in the current wave of infill development going on around the city, led of course by the fantastic developments in North Park...the North Parker, the former Post Office infill project, etc.

If San Diego can get another dozen infill developments over the next 5 years on the same caliber as the Q (quality development by any city's standards), that would be impressive city building.

psychotron
Jan 14, 2014, 6:04 PM
Fantastic shots Puzzlecraft! This shot really illustrates 2 things for me:

1. How Ballpark Village (and possibly a stadium) will help that massive emptiness.
2. How I desperately dream of a freeway cap to help truly connect Balboa Park with downtown.