SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 [Archive] - Page 83

mello

Oct 24, 2013, 5:06 AM

The Miramar flight path thing is so bogus those jets have plenty of time to get up in altitude before they are in that area. The runway is so long that even a fully loaded military cargo plane is easily 800 feet in the air by the time it would be going over La Jolla commons. A 25 floor office tower is what 380 feet? (Just looked on map and the runway at Miramar is actually way south of UTC btw, you would have to bank pretty hard to the North upon take off to be flying over La Jolla Village drive.)

Bummer about Hazard Center still being two years off :( That project sounds sweet, row homes and two residential towers... I thought that might get going sooner.

tyleraf

Oct 24, 2013, 5:17 AM

Sad to hear how far off hazard center is. I'm glad it's still alive though. I was beginning to wonder if this project was dead. It will add some much needed density to mission valley.

spoonman

Oct 24, 2013, 5:56 AM

Sad to hear how far off hazard center is. I'm glad it's still alive though. I was beginning to wonder if this project was dead. It will add some much needed density to mission valley.

Very true.

At least Doug Manchester's development at the UT headquarters seems to be moving forward soon. With those, plus Hazard Center, that is a lot of new towers, all of which will be close to the train.

spoonman

Oct 24, 2013, 6:03 AM

There's no way they could build a 20+ story building on that site because it's right in Miramar's flight path. They were lucky (i.e., concessions) to build what they did.

A while back I had read something to the effect that the builder had to buy the airport (Miramar) special radar equipment, so that they could build higher. The article suggested that this is a normal practice. Is this what "concessions" you are referring to?

As Mello eluded to, being hostage to all of these airports is tiring. Where there aren't airports, there are NIMBYs. Oh well, there is a lot of exciting development starting to happen.

Nerv

Oct 24, 2013, 6:42 AM

Having grown up in La Jolla I can say I've never heard of UTC having a height limit due to Miramar. I've seen people post that they "think" it has one but does it?

If there was/is a height restriction I can say I've never seen it in print or brought up by anyone in the city unlike the downtown restriction.

Now I'm not saying I'm not wrong and maybe there is a height limit but I'd like someone to post where it's been brought up "officially" somewhere cause I'm clueless to ever hearing that before.:???:

eburress

Oct 24, 2013, 4:06 PM

A while back I had read something to the effect that the builder had to buy the airport (Miramar) special radar equipment, so that they could build higher. The article suggested that this is a normal practice. Is this what "concessions" you are referring to?

As Mello eluded to, being hostage to all of these airports is tiring. Where there aren't airports, there are NIMBYs. Oh well, there is a lot of exciting development starting to happen.

Yes, the new radar is what I'm referring to, and that's what allowed them to build to the current height. Mayble they'll buy Miramar another, fancier radar (barf). hahaha

I agree though. Safety concerns are legitimate considerations, but I think they (the FAA, USMC, USN, etc) are overdoing it in many instances.

Nerv

Oct 24, 2013, 7:12 PM

Yes, the new radar is what I'm referring to, and that's what allowed them to build to the current height. Mayble they'll buy Miramar another, fancier radar (barf). hahaha

I agree though. Safety concerns are legitimate considerations, but I think they (the FAA, USMC, USN, etc) are overdoing it in many instances.

So again I ask, where are you guys seeing a height limit posted by the FAA for UTC? Is it 400 feet? 500? I really never have heard of this before.:???:

spoonman

Oct 24, 2013, 7:33 PM

So again I ask, where are you guys seeing a height limit posted by the FAA for UTC? Is it 400 feet? 500? I really never have heard of this before.:???:

Below is the doc for the UTC revelopment plan, which includes new high-rises. Somewhere in this doc I believe height limits are noted for different buildings, depending on where they are on the mall parking lot.

On page 98, it does mention that the tallest residential buildings will be 293 ft, but this may be an arbitrary number.

I have read numerous times now, that any building in the UTC area must be reviewed by the FAA (or is it airport authority) if it is over 200ft.

http://docs.sandiego.gov/councildockets_attach/2008/July/07-29-2008_Item_337_Part_7_of_12.pdf

Nerv

Oct 24, 2013, 8:53 PM

Below is the doc for the UTC revelopment plan, which includes new high-rises. Somewhere in this doc I believe height limits are noted for different buildings, depending on where they are on the mall parking lot.

On page 98, it does mention that the tallest residential buildings will be 293 ft, but this may be an arbitrary number.

I have read numerous times now, that any building in the UTC area must be reviewed by the FAA (or is it airport authority) if it is over 200ft.

http://docs.sandiego.gov/councildockets_attach/2008/July/07-29-2008_Item_337_Part_7_of_12.pdf

Thanks. When I have some time I'll go through it. :tup:

spoonman

Oct 25, 2013, 3:45 PM

I would have thought that La Jolla Commons would not have to have received approval from FAA/Airport Authority on those towers, as they are likely just under 200ft (15 floors).

tyleraf

Oct 25, 2013, 6:26 PM

The approval was for the old 300 ft towers that were planned there.

mello

Oct 25, 2013, 10:08 PM

Well once the Commons III and Irvine tower are complete along with that nice new medical facility I will say that UTC will be a "decent" secondary skyline for the SD metro area. The only thing that sucks is the way it is positioned geographically there isn't a good spot to get a nice angle of the skyline.

I have always wanted to climb up the hill where the 52 reaches its crest to see what it would look like from there. Where do you guys think is the best angle to view that skyline from?

tyleraf

Oct 26, 2013, 12:52 AM

Mello: One of my favorite spots to see the UTC skyline is from the 15-163 carpool lane ramp even though it is pretty distant you can see the skyline as a whole.

SDCAL

Oct 26, 2013, 1:51 AM

:/ Having mixed feelings about that one.

You and me both, had some great times at Mandarin House. Love the old school vibe.

Any renderings of what will replace it?

SDCAL

Oct 26, 2013, 1:57 AM

The coastal commission sued Manchester construction is scheduled to start at the earliest in 2015. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Jan/28/navy-broadway-complex-coastal-commission-sue/

I know others may disagree because it would mean this site remains with those decaying military buildings longer, but I'm hoping NBC gets totally shot down and it's put out for bid so we can get a better, more dynamic design.

It's such prime waterfront property and Manchester's plan is mediocre. Yes, it's of course better than what's there, but it could be so much better for that iconic site.

What's the deal with that land anyway? Is it owned by Manchester or by the city or by the military?

If the commission rejects it then what happens, I wonder. Does Manchester try to improve the plan or does it open up to other developers?

SDCAL

Oct 26, 2013, 2:05 AM

This is out of date news, but don't think anyone reported it here.

San Diego, as of this past June, FINALLY has a direct flight to Miami.

This will really help link us to the Caribbean and Latin America.

http://sdbj.com/news/2013/mar/04/american-airlines-debut-direct-local-flights-miami/

tyleraf

Oct 26, 2013, 2:28 AM

I know others may disagree because it would mean this site remains with those decaying military buildings longer, but I'm hoping NBC gets totally shot down and it's put out for bid so we can get a better, more dynamic design.

It's such prime waterfront property and Manchester's plan is mediocre. Yes, it's of course better than what's there, but it could be so much better for that iconic site.

What's the deal with that land anyway? Is it owned by Manchester or by the city or by the military?

If the commission rejects it then what happens, I wonder. Does Manchester try to improve the plan or does it open up to other developers?
Unfortunately Manchester has a 99 year lease so unless something crazy happens, we are stuck with Manchester. So it's better sooner than later. Btw the land is owned by the Navy. There is also the possibility that the base could be shut down which would change the situation.

mello

Oct 28, 2013, 3:58 AM

Was just down in Chula Vista today and the amount of flat cleared land next to the bay is astounding! There is so much potential to go vertical and create an awesome environment there. Also tons of vacant land east of the 5 in West CV as well, big plots just sitting there not sure why all of the focus is way out east of the 805 or in East Lake when tons of coastal land is sitting available.

tyleraf

Oct 28, 2013, 4:09 AM

Here is the photo of the cancelled Marriott tower.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5542/10529020774_4570f2823f.jpg

spoonman

Oct 28, 2013, 2:50 PM

S.DviaPhilly

Oct 28, 2013, 6:59 PM

Was in a unit at Parkloft and snapped this shot of the Sempra Construction/Demo...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/Spiewak/photo2-9_zpsa8a2b475.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/Spiewak/media/photo2-9_zpsa8a2b475.jpg.html)

spoonman

Oct 28, 2013, 7:15 PM

I was down in that area this last weekend, and it seems that the street level activity in East Village has really improved.

There seem to be a lot more restaurants, shops, dry cleaners, and other business that have moved into the street level spaces, making the area feel much less sterile than in recent years.

The weak link in the area seemed to be near the library. Ballpark Village should definitely solve that.

Bertrice

Oct 28, 2013, 7:21 PM

tyleraf

Oct 28, 2013, 7:54 PM

Bertrice: That building is staying

Leo the Dog

Oct 29, 2013, 4:37 PM

Hey guys, does anyone know what happened to the new luxury brand Marriott hotel going up in IB? It's 90% complete, supposed to open last fall.

spoonman

Oct 29, 2013, 8:19 PM

Hey guys, does anyone know what happened to the new luxury brand Marriott hotel going up in IB? It's 90% complete, supposed to open last fall.

The name of the hotel is "Pier South". I believe it is opening by the end of this year. Cohn Group will run one of the restaurants.

Here is the website, and the latest news story.

http://imperialbeach.patch.com/groups/ib-taking-pictures/p/pier-south--sea-180-opening-soon

http://imperialbeach.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/big-lines-form-at-pier-south-job-fair-sea-180

http://piersouthresort.com/

mello

Oct 29, 2013, 11:25 PM

spoonman

Oct 30, 2013, 2:36 AM

Spoonman: Down off of Main and Palomar I have noticed tons of empty lots ripe for infill projects and there are tons of weird scrap yards and such that could be consolidated and rezoned for residential. It is such a weird mishmash of old crappy 70's commercial developments in that area too that it could really use a complete rework.

Western Chula Vista just has a lot of infill potential in my opinion, maybe even some of those crappy motels on Broadway which I'm sure don't have great vacancy rates could be torn down and turned in to 5 to 7 floor residential projects.

It would be great to see development pick-up in the South Bay area. The last available greenfield land in Otay is nearly built-out, and with the activity along the border continuing to heat up, I expect the San Diego metro region to focus much more on South Bay, than in the past.

For those that don't know, there have been some big developments down there recently.

1. The cross-border terminal is under construction. The cross border terminal will allows U.S. residents access to a significant amount of additional flights throughout Mexico, and other destinations. Travelers check-in in a terminal on the US side of the border, and cross into Tijuana Int'l via a sky bridge.

These additional airport connections (in addition to those at SAN) are supposed to enhance the growth of Tijuana factories coupled with SD (Otay Mesa) distribution centers.

2. To foster this growth, the Feds are reconstructing the San Ysidro border crossing (non-commercial), and building a new commercial crossing (in addition to Otay) east of the Otay Mesa crossing, for a total of 3 border crossings. As many know, the San Ysidro crossing is the busiest land crossing in the world.

3. Recently the 905 freeway extension was completed (in addition to the 125 tollway). The 905 stretches from the 5, crossing the 805, to the 125. The addition was from 805 to 125. Once the additional border crossing is completed, the 905 will extend further east to this new, third, border crossing.

4. Chula Vista Bayfront project. I believe this will fuel additional high-rise growth in the area.

5. Otay Lakes area is building a large scale development with 1000's of residences, and high-tech offices. In the "near" future, there is also a plan to build a major university for the South Bay area.

TransAustin

Oct 30, 2013, 2:57 AM

5. Otay Lakes area is building a large scale development with 1000's of residences, and high-tech offices. In the "near" future, there is also a plan to build a major university for the South Bay area.
Can you share the source for this one? I live in Eastlake so this would be pretty awesome. Thanks.

tyleraf

Oct 30, 2013, 3:15 AM

Here is an old article on the possibility of a CSU Chula Vista. I've heard some other mentions of it but this is the most recent article. Unfortunately I think the bill was vetoed. http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/sep/28/hopes-csu-chula-vista-back-again/

tyleraf

Oct 30, 2013, 3:24 AM

La jolla centre 3 broke ground today! http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/29/irvine-jolla-centre-construction/ This will be great for UTC.

mello

Oct 30, 2013, 3:26 AM

Spoonman: There is still quite a bit of "greenfield" open space left South of Olympic Parkway heading South East towards Donovan Prison. Also those hills just north of the border on the east side of 5 are a huge open space area (not sure what it is zoned for). I would say there is still easily 5000 acres of relatively flat land not yet built on down in the far South East corner of Chula Vista/San Ysidro.

I don't know what kind of buffers are needed from the border or the prison and industrial areas/Brown Field etc. And the land is not completely flat but looks like it could be graded without much effort.

--- Does the 905 actually connect with the 125 or would you have to get off and take surface streets. Google maps doesn't show the 905 yet it is still just yellow lines :haha: And it followed its own route I thought it would replace Otay Mesa Road but it is actually south of there.

spoonman

Oct 30, 2013, 4:14 AM

Can you share the source for this one? I live in Eastlake so this would be pretty awesome. Thanks.

According to this article from last year, the land for the university has been acquired.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jul/18/survey-says-build-new-south-bay-university/

SDfan

Oct 30, 2013, 4:24 AM

La jolla centre 3 broke ground today! http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/29/irvine-jolla-centre-construction/ This will be great for UTC.

UTC: A Sea of Mid-Rise Glass Boxes

SDfan

Oct 30, 2013, 4:26 AM

3. Recently the 905 freeway extension was completed (in addition to the 125 tollway). The 905 stretches from the 5, crossing the 805, to the 125. The addition was from 805 to 125. Once the additional border crossing is completed, the 905 will extend further east to this new, third, border crossing.

I had read years ago that the 905 would be turned into an interstate eventually. Anyone familiar with this?

Leo the Dog

Oct 30, 2013, 4:26 AM

The name of the hotel is "Pier South". I believe it is opening by the end of this year. Cohn Group will run one of the restaurants.

Here is the website, and the latest news story.

http://imperialbeach.patch.com/groups/ib-taking-pictures/p/pier-south--sea-180-opening-soon

http://imperialbeach.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/big-lines-form-at-pier-south-job-fair-sea-180

http://piersouthresort.com/

Thanks! I wonder what the hold up has been? So much potential in IB.

SDfan

Oct 30, 2013, 4:27 AM

spoonman

Oct 30, 2013, 4:54 AM

I had read years ago that the 905 would be turned into an interstate eventually. Anyone familiar with this?

I read the same.

Mello: You're right that there still is some develop-able land left. What I'm pointing to is that the end of developing mass tracks of land for subdivisions has already started coming to an end. We know this, just like everyone else in SD knows this. We have started seeing a lot more infill development, and that will start accelerating once these last open parcels become filled out.

I believe with the expansion of the border crossing, freeway, and airport terminal, the open space near Brown Field and the prison will most likely continue to be zoned and aggressively developed as distribution/commercial/heavy industrial.

My understanding is that the cross-border airport terminal will have all of the things normally associated with an airport, such as rental car facilities and other transportation infrastructure. That may also be the terminus for the South Bay BRT line, but I am not sure.

mello

Oct 30, 2013, 5:45 AM

370 acres for a university... Was thinking that was pretty small then I just read that Cal State San Marcos is 340 acres. It will be interesting to see how all of that land down there is divvied up over the coming years because there still looks to be a substantial amount left.

I do remember a developer had a proposal to build a bunch of 8 to 13 story condo towers on those hills just above the San Ysidro crossing years ago and he touted the epic views they would have, guess that project was obviously shelved.

Erip

Oct 30, 2013, 6:10 AM

According to this article from last year, the land for the university has been acquired.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jul/18/survey-says-build-new-south-bay-university/

The plans for the university are incorporated in this larger Millenia development, to include 3000 multi family residences, commercial and tech development, parks, library, etc. It sounds very impressive and has broken ground: www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Sep/27/tp-millenia-project-to-bring-jobs-housing/

Erip

Oct 30, 2013, 6:40 AM

Here's a good collection of South Bay Area developments with handy maps: http://scedcvisioning.wordpress.com/project-updates/

Erip

Oct 30, 2013, 6:57 AM

spoonman

Oct 30, 2013, 5:40 PM

With Broadstone well underway, and now Mandarin house closing to make way for redevelopment, has anyone heard anything on the status of the St. Paul's cathedral condos? http://www.stpaulcathedral.org/chapter-master-plan

I dug around a little, and the project was approved (13 & 15 story buildings), but the latest was that the church was looking to sell the land and approved status, etc to a developer so that it could be built.

tyleraf

Oct 30, 2013, 6:44 PM

Hopefully those Cathedral Towers get going soon. They will be good for bankers hill. Also I'm looking forward to seeing the design of the mandarin house.

spoonman

Oct 30, 2013, 8:23 PM

Hopefully those Cathedral Towers get going soon. They will be good for bankers hill. Also I'm looking forward to seeing the design of the mandarin house.

There was a design floating around the internet (shown below), but I don't know if that is an old design.

What happened to the project after Graham Downes was killed? Is it being redesigned?

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/F/8/0/F803F7D3-AA66-41C9-B7F0-555E6A792322.jpg

Chapelo

Oct 30, 2013, 9:17 PM

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/29/irvine-jolla-centre-construction/

UTC to get a new 14-story high-rise
by Roger Showley
http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/2013/10/29/LJC3_V01_Aerial_0509-097_HR_03-06-13_t940.jpg?13521e6083d8523caab49d2c279efbd88a38372c

The Irvine Co. announced Tuesday its first high-rise construction project in San Diego.

Grading has begun on a 14-story, 306,000-square-foot speculative office tower in the University Towne Centre area.

Estimated at about $92 million, La Jolla Centre III, designed by New York’s Pei Cobb Freed & Partners, is expected to open in 2015 and include more than 1,200 parking spaces. The building in La Jolla Centre will be located at the southwest corner of Judicial and Executive drives.

"The UTC market hasn't been this strong in years, and it's the right time to do it," said John Turner, Irvine's San Diego regional vice president.

It will be the first high-rise Irvine has built in San Diego since expanding from its Orange County base 30 years ago. Irvine previously focused on building low- and mid-rise office campuses.

La Jolla Centre III will include a food service space, fitness center and outdoor WiFi-serviced work space.

"It's going to be a beautifully landscaped area," Turner said, designed for working and meeting.

The garage will include 1,215 spaces in five levels immediately south, producing an overall parking ratio of five spaces per 1,000 square feet , when the industry norm is usually three or four per thousand. Irvine did not disclose the project cost, but Eric Northbrook, executive director of the Cushman & Wakefield brokerage, placed it at about $91.8 million for the office building and parking.

Northbrook said gross rents would have to rise from their present $3.50 to $4.25 per square foot per month to justify new construction on a top-quality building.

Still, there are pockets of opportunity, particularly downtown, where high-tech starter firms populated by young workers, have been increasingly relocating.

"I think downtown's got a lot of value," he said.

Mission Valley is attractive, although it lacks many Class A spaces, and eastern Chula Vista looks promising but not in the near term.

"It's all about employment growth," he said.

Turner said the reason to build now in UTC is that the choices for large full-floor tenant spaces have dropped to just one, at La Jolla Commons.

For lawyers, accountants and other office users servicing UC San Diego, biomedical research institutions and high-tech companies. getting more space may become increasingly difficult.

"I assume for those other developers who have opportunities to build, they're probably going to sit and see how we do," he said.

spoonman

Nov 1, 2013, 2:22 AM

It's great to see that part of University City getting some mid rise activity.

spoonman

Nov 2, 2013, 4:29 PM

Does anyone know the status of Kettner & Ash? This article from last year states that it is to break ground in 2013.

I had thought that PCH & Broadway was going to be first.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/May/25/condo-high-rise-approved-completion-2015/

Nerv

Nov 3, 2013, 9:57 PM

I think the next Bosa project to start is Pacific & Broadway which hopefully breaks ground next year. Kettner & Ash will probably follow within the next year of that groundbreaking so say by 2015 start time. This all assumes housing market holds up which could change things to a earlier start or delay.

Please anyone on the boards here post something of IDEA when it finally starts too. I may be wrong but I think that should be the next project breaking ground?

tyleraf

Nov 4, 2013, 1:28 AM

mello

Nov 4, 2013, 3:58 AM

I don't understand why the condo developers are dragging their feet so much with breaking ground on new projects. The inventory has been super low for what 3 years now? Almost everything that has been built has been rentals... So what gives? You would think they would be jumping all over downtown SD right now :shrug:

Oh and a good article about why San Diego County has lacked quality jobs in the trade sector for decades and why we are basically a backwater economy in many respects: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/nov/02/san-diego-trade-economy-border/

kpexpress

Nov 4, 2013, 6:58 AM

Pacific & Broadway, IDEA 1, 401 W Ash, and Lane Field are all supposed to break ground Q1 2014. Bosa has stated that Kettner and Ash will break ground in 2015. Does anyone know the status of blue sky?

I got an email from their COO a few days ago saying they're going to try to pull a permit before the City goes dark for the holidays. If not, look for breaking ground in January.

Nerv

Nov 4, 2013, 8:25 AM

With the new library now completed Pacific & Broadway looks to be the next new building that actually will look pretty interesting in downtown.

Not that there's not some decent stuff going up but I'm actually excited to see this Bosa project.
:tup:

tyleraf

Nov 4, 2013, 3:29 PM

With the Superior Courthouse, Ballpark Village, Convention Center Expansion, and possibly Makers Quarter also scheduled to break ground next year. 2014 is going to be a very exciting year!

Nerv

Nov 4, 2013, 9:19 PM

Oohhh, yeah. Forgot about the new county courthouse too.

That will be another interesting looking building to SD's skyline. Good to see some projects that look different in a good way.:tup:

Groundbreaking still set for this December?

Nerv

Nov 4, 2013, 9:25 PM

http://www.courts.ca.gov/images/San_Diego_east_facade.JPG

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/San_Diego_southwest_facade.JPG

I've seen the building listed at 370 and 389 feet depending on the site.

So which is it? :???:

tyleraf

Nov 4, 2013, 10:05 PM

It says 389 on the superior court website so that is my guess.

tyleraf

Nov 4, 2013, 10:08 PM

spoonman

Nov 4, 2013, 11:09 PM

Anyone know what will happen with the old courthouse site on Broadway, once the new courthouse is completed?

tyleraf

Nov 4, 2013, 11:33 PM

I read that it will be sold to an office developer. The part between b & c will become a park.

Streamliner

Nov 5, 2013, 7:49 PM

Anyone know what will happen with the old courthouse site on Broadway, once the new courthouse is completed?

I get mixed up with all these courthouses downtown. Let me see if I have this straight.

Federal:

The new Richard Meier & Partners-designed Federal Courthouse is south of Broadway, between State and Union Street. This was finished earlier this year.

State:

The new SOM-designed Central Courthouse building will be built north of C Street between State and Union Street. This 389 foot tall building will replace a parking lot and the bail bonds building with the American flag mural. It is set to commence construction next year. A skybridge will connect this to the Hall of Justice.

The old 1961 Central Courthouse is on the north side of Broadway between Union and Front Street. This older building will be torn down (?) and possibly sold to an office developer and part of the complex made into a park. This building currently extends north of C street and on to a parcel just north of B Street.

The Hall of Justice building is also north of Broadway between State and Union Street. This is the one with the curved and pillared stone facade, and is also part of the County Courthouse complex. Being built in 1996, this will remain. A skybridge connects this building with the old Central Courthouse.

The San Diego Central Jail lies north of C street between Front St and 1st Avenue. It connects to the old Central Courthouse via a skybridge.

Anyone know if I got this all correct? How will the new Central Courthouse connect to the Jail? I don't see a skybridge in the renders, will there be a tunnel?

tyleraf

Nov 5, 2013, 8:40 PM

Streamliner: You have everything right about the courthouses. The new SOM designed state courthouse was originally to be connected to the jail by a tunnel, but due to a budget reduction they will transport prisoners from the jail to the court by vehicle.

Northparkwizard

Nov 5, 2013, 8:48 PM

[QUOTE=Nerv;6326741]http://www.courts.ca.gov/images/San_Diego_east_facade.JPG

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/San_Diego_southwest_facade.JPG

That's straight-up ugly, does anyone else see a huge #1? Clinical and tacky.

Tearing down the 1961 courthouse is also a mistake symbolic of a attitude that prevails somehow downtown. Plenty of real estate to build out and not enough vision i.e. (all-time shitty waterfront edition) The Headquarters, Lane Field & NEVP.

tyleraf

Nov 5, 2013, 9:03 PM

The Sheraton Suites downtown is now the Declan Suites and will undergo a multimillion dollar remodel. http://www.sacbee.com/2013/11/05/5882252/san-diego-debuts-downtown-hotel.html

SDfan

Nov 5, 2013, 11:50 PM

That's straight-up ugly, does anyone else see a huge #1? Clinical and tacky.

Tearing down the 1961 courthouse is also a mistake symbolic of a attitude that prevails somehow downtown. Plenty of real estate to build out and not enough vision i.e. (all-time shitty waterfront edition) The Headquarters, Lane Field & NEVP.

No. That's more straight-up modern. I like it. It's probably one of the few well-designed structures going up downtown soon (IMO of course).

As for the '61 courthouse, that thing is a testament to mid-century CHEAP modernism. That building needs to come down, or risk marking Broadway forever with San Diego's historic frugality-focused civic identity. It is a horrid, asbestos chocked trap. Gross.

It ain't no Hotel Del, if you know what I mean...

No disagreement about the NEVP site though, totally a waste of potential.

Bertrice

Nov 6, 2013, 12:41 AM

Regarding the NEVP, why does expanding a sidewalk cost 28 million?

tyleraf

Nov 6, 2013, 2:29 AM

I kinda like the NEVP, at least if it is ever completely built.

Northparkwizard

Nov 6, 2013, 2:42 AM

No. That's more straight-up modern. I like it. It's probably one of the few well-designed structures going up downtown soon (IMO of course).

As for the '61 courthouse, that thing is a testament to mid-century CHEAP modernism. That building needs to come down, or risk marking Broadway forever with San Diego's historic frugality-focused civic identity. It is a horrid, asbestos chocked trap. Gross.

It ain't no Hotel Del, if you know what I mean...

No disagreement about the NEVP site though, totally a waste of potential.

Nope. Straight-up Walmart modernism if i've ever seen it. We deserve better. That thing looks like a huge stucco #1 that attorneys waste peoples time at. Give me something dynamic, not a diet version of a Shanghai Radison (without the hat).

Maybe the best out of the worst, which isn't saying much,

The frugality that you speak about the '61 building is exactly what makes the soon-to-be courthouse look cheap, banal, and undignified. IMO the '61 building (on the outside) isn't the ugly duckling on broadway.

SDfan

Nov 6, 2013, 5:24 AM

Nope. Straight-up Walmart modernism if i've ever seen it. We deserve better. That thing looks like a huge stucco #1 that attorneys waste peoples time at. Give me something dynamic, not a diet version of a Shanghai Radison (without the hat).

Maybe the best out of the worst, which isn't saying much,

The frugality that you speak about the '61 building is exactly what makes the soon-to-be courthouse look cheap, banal, and undignified. IMO the '61 building (on the outside) isn't the ugly duckling on broadway.

To each their own.

Nerv

Nov 6, 2013, 8:25 AM

As courthouses go, I like it too.

The federal courthouse was decent enough looking but I think the county building will give the downtown skyline some nice diversity.

It has been received with generally good comments. I know more than a few cities are jealous that we are getting a new federal and county courthouses in such a short period of time too.

Leo the Dog

Nov 6, 2013, 3:19 PM

No. That's more straight-up modern. I like it. It's probably one of the few well-designed structures going up downtown soon (IMO of course).

It's pretty brutal looking with a modern twist. It kinda reminds me of something from Boston's Govt Center from the 60s. Super imposing, dwarfing the W, guaranteeing a permanent dead zone after 5pm, further isolating Little Italy from DT.

I'd like to see development that livens up some of these dead zones, not expand them.

Streamliner

Nov 6, 2013, 5:52 PM

It's pretty brutal looking with a modern twist. It kinda reminds me of something from Boston's Govt Center from the 60s. Super imposing, dwarfing the W, guaranteeing a permanent dead zone after 5pm, further isolating Little Italy from DT.

I'd like to see development that livens up some of these dead zones, not expand them.

You're right that it won't do a whole lot to liven up this area of downtown. However, it is still just a courthouse, I don't know if we can expect it to be much more than that. That said, I think there is some potential with whatever happens to the old courthouse land. A park and a new office building could enhance the area a bit.

As for the tower itself, I kinda like it. I'm a bit tired of all the balconies that San Diego's new construction has, so this is a nice change. It looks clean and has a nice texture. I think we need more office buildings in general downtown (purely for skyline reasons, not because of lack of supply).

SDfan

Nov 7, 2013, 1:18 AM

It's pretty brutal looking with a modern twist. It kinda reminds me of something from Boston's Govt Center from the 60s. Super imposing, dwarfing the W, guaranteeing a permanent dead zone after 5pm, further isolating Little Italy from DT.

I'd like to see development that livens up some of these dead zones, not expand them.

I don't see what's so "brutal" about it, and I think the Boston center is a little extreme of a comparison, but okay. As for livening up the area, not all of downtown has to be the gaslamp. There are functional 9-5 aspects that have to exist in a complete downtown. Better they have the new state court house there than in kearny mesa...

And I don't know if anyone has noticed, but many of these federal, state, county, and city offices are being clustered in the core/columbia area because they were planned that way. It's somewhat logical to have government institutions be near other government institutions for collaborative, functional, and geographic reasons.

SDfan

Nov 7, 2013, 1:37 AM

Just saw a snippet in the sdbj about an investment group sitting and waiting to purchase and then redevelop the Town and Country Resort in Mission Valley. That is a big site with a lot of potential. It was the first major development in the valley, so it's going to be interesting to see what could be done there.

tyleraf

Nov 7, 2013, 6:35 AM

This is good news for downtown! Little Italy association approved a new streetcar line that would run though the district. http://sandiego.urbdezine.com/2013/11/06/little-italy-association-approves-historic-streetcars-in-the-district/

aerogt3

Nov 7, 2013, 8:31 AM

That thing looks like a huge stucco #1 that attorneys waste peoples time at. Give me something dynamic, not a diet version of a Shanghai Radison (without the hat).

WTF do people on here mean when they say they want a more "dynamic" structure? That they want more earthquakes? That they want it in a constant state of teardown and remodel?

I don't think dynamic is the droid you are looking for?

spoonman

Nov 7, 2013, 7:03 PM

Are the Little Italy streetcars being configured to use on streets? The article stated that the cars would share the street, but it was not clear how they would be propelled. $34M does not sound like enough money to construct rails. If anyone know, please share.

eburress

Nov 7, 2013, 7:08 PM

WTF do people on here mean when they say they want a more "dynamic" structure? That they want more earthquakes? That they want it in a constant state of teardown and remodel?

I don't think dynamic is the droid you are looking for?

I would image they're using the "positive in attitude and full of energy and new ideas" definition of dynamic to describe the building, especially considering that it looks like a tired, still-dated 60s era structure.

Northparkwizard

Nov 8, 2013, 8:12 AM

Urban designer critiques San Diego, via The Daily Transcript: http://www.sddt.com/news/article.cfm?SourceCode=20131107czk&_t=Urban+designer+critiques+San+Diego#.UnybiJTTWft

Urbanize_It

Nov 8, 2013, 4:42 PM

Urban designer critiques San Diego, via The Daily Transcript: http://www.sddt.com/news/article.cfm?SourceCode=20131107czk&_t=Urban+designer+critiques+San+Diego#.UnybiJTTWft

What a great article. I could not agree more with his ideas. Plus, An added benefit of narrowing our streets is the reduced cost to maintain. One often overlooked fact that the "repair our streets" crowd doesn't seem to get. Less surface = less maintenance cost.

tyleraf

Nov 8, 2013, 8:51 PM

Wow. That was a good read. Hopefully his ideas are applied to the next phase of the NEVP. I wish the city would bring him on staff to work with Fulton.

spoonman

Nov 10, 2013, 4:42 PM

Does anyone here have a preference as to where a future Chargers stadium might be located. For example, downtown vs rebuilding at Mission Valley?

tyleraf

Nov 10, 2013, 7:19 PM

Downtown! Preferrably alongside a new arena.

Derek

Nov 10, 2013, 7:21 PM

I actually prefer the Mission Valley site, but I'm not opposed to a downtown stadium.

I just want them to stay!

Northparkwizard

Nov 10, 2013, 7:43 PM

Either/Or, however downtown would be really interesting to see. Shoehorning a 70,000 seat stadium (the NFL's minimum seating requirement to host a Superbowl) between Petco, the I5, K St. & Imperial would take some ingenuity.

If I had money on it i'd guess that the Chargers get a deal done to redevelop the Mission Valley site and play home games at the Rose Bowl for 2 years during construction. There's enough sq ft at Qualcomm to accommodate anything the Chargers would want to build. Remember the Spanos' made their fortune in real estate/apartments.

I want them to stay as well.

SDCAL

Nov 10, 2013, 9:34 PM

Has anyone heard if there are any long-range plans to either redevelop or relocate the police headquarters downtown.

It's a huge building and a huge eyesore, and I noticed it's considered part of the IDEA district.

Is the plan to leave it as-is and, if so, why would it be considered part of the IDEA district ?

You can see on the map below, it's a big area of the IDEA district :

http://broadcastsandiego.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/makersquarter_t540.bmp

Leo the Dog

Nov 11, 2013, 4:48 AM

Does anyone here have a preference as to where a future Chargers stadium might be located. For example, downtown vs rebuilding at Mission Valley?

Mission Valley for sure. Football stadiums should never be in DTs. Why waste precious city blocks for 8 games.

I'd rather see an nba team in the East Village. I'm surprised we don't have a movement to bring the Clippers back to SD. 41 homes games, concerts, great indoor convention space.

aerogt3

Nov 11, 2013, 8:21 AM

Mission Valley for sure. Football stadiums should never be in DTs. Why waste precious city blocks for 8 games

+1 8 days out of 365 is a massive waste of money.

Derek

Nov 11, 2013, 9:23 AM

Northparkwizard

Nov 11, 2013, 5:39 PM

NFL stadiums aren't used "8 times a year".

They are used at least 10 times per year including the preseason, and even a few more days if the Chargers were to make the playoffs. It would be included in the Super Bowl cycle as well.

I'm sure the Aztecs would also play there, along with a few NCAA bowl games (possibly even a BCS title game every few years).

Not to mention the dozens of other events that take place at Qualcomm every year. Motocross, monster trucks, CIF (high school football) championships, concerts, etc. The possibilities are endless.

It could possibly lure an MLS team in the future as well (fingers crossed).

Exactly, Petco Park is used for many special events during the on and off season despite it's configuration not being ideal. A new football/soccer configured stadium would have more options for special events do to it's mostly symmetrical layout. Look at any newer stadium in the NFL and you'll see that they're mostly booked for every weekend of the year. Add to the list the x-games, rodeos, circus', bull riding, and children's events like Sesame Street live.

Bertrice

Nov 11, 2013, 6:36 PM

Exactly, Petco Park is used for many special events during the on and off season despite it's configuration not being ideal. A new football/soccer configured stadium would have more options for special events do to it's mostly symmetrical layout. Look at any newer stadium in the NFL and you'll see that they're mostly booked for every weekend of the year. Add to the list the x-games, rodeos, circus', bull riding, and children's events like Sesame Street live.

I had to jump in on this one after the "sesame street live" take. The only reason the chargers wanted the DT spot was it had 100 mil. in redevelopment funds attached to that land. That is gone now. Then they tried to piggy back the convention expansion. That is over. Now the message is "sell the Q. and sports arena site and give us that money." 10 years ago it was "give us Q site to redevelop plus more land."
As someone who worked charger games at the Q. part of the experience is tailgating. There isn't enough parking downtown for the amount of staff for a game alone. Imagine 70k taking the trolley. As for the other events, SDSU games are weak and motocross was the only 50k attendance. Petco has events now only they are corporate parties on the field. We have a symmetrical arena now, look how much that is used.
The Chargers need to step up and say how much they are willing to pitch in.
A new stadium could be built next to the old one. there is enough room.
Look at this before you start citing Super bowl's will come back. Peace.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_22350058/santa-clara-weighs-super-bowl-financial-terms-imposed

mello

Nov 11, 2013, 8:28 PM

I think a downtown Arena is actually a better fit, if I knew the 90 or so acres of the Tenth Ave marine terminal was going to open up anytime soon then maybe a football stadium would be acceptable but land is getting gobbled up quickly downtown and I want to see as much as possible taken up by 300 plus foot tall structures to cram in as much housing and office space as possible.

I think the Qualcomm site has so much potential for vertical living and is best suited for the Chargers. When you walk around downtown and realize it is actually a pretty small area and having a huge piece of it taken up by Petco and a Stadium.... :shrug:

The problem with SD is downtown is the only place where vertical growth is accepted and all the inner hoods shit when something over 30 feet is proposed, so that makes DT space even more precious.

S.DviaPhilly

Nov 11, 2013, 9:55 PM

Looks like the underground garage is done at Urbana! I like this infill building, good for the area! Snapped this photo last Thursday from a condo in Parkloft

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/Spiewak/photo1_zps060b7ea0.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/Spiewak/media/photo1_zps060b7ea0.jpg.html)

spoonman

Nov 12, 2013, 1:42 AM

I want the Chargers to stay too.

*******

The only part of a downtown Chargers stadium that I like is the possibility for spurred high rise growth around the stadium due to the appeal that it creates (on game days). That said, there is plenty of activity going on anyway downtown, and as other have said, land down there is becoming increasingly precious. Mission Valley has always seemed like the perfect spot for the stadium anyhow.

*******
I have been thinking more and more that the Chargers may be well served to partner with another sport to get a facility built in SD.

For those that don't know, the Jacobs brothers (of Qualcomm) have been quietly considering brining NBA to San Diego over the past year or so. For now, they have poured money into the Sac Kings to help keep them in Sacramento (that's the story). However, in the future, they may push to move the team to SD, or they may simply be cutting their teeth before they jump into something bigger, in SD.

It may be unlikely, but the planets could bizzarely align and bring SD a new combined NFL and NBA arena, especially if Nathan Fletcher (works for Qualcomm) is elected mayor.

You'd think that between Spanos (NFL), Qualcomm (NBA), the sale of Sports Arena, redevelopment of the current site, and some additional city funds, this would be easy enough. I have to think that these conversations have already happened or are happening...whether they pan out I don't know, but it sure would make for a strange turn of events.