SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[mongoXZ]

Good news but let's see how long it'll take to actually break ground. I won't hold my breath. It's funny to see some of the comments made about this on signonsandiego. ie this idiotic comment by "sky173":

"I am all through San Diego everyday. The metropolitan playground is about to collapse because of overbuilding downtown. The homeless and gangs will be living in all the overbuilt units down there because no one will be able to sell them, so they will have to rent them cheap.. North Park is growing because Hillcrest got too small for the homosexuals. There's not too many other places in the city where they will be tolerated!"

Whenever I need a good laugh I always look at the reader's comments under the articles.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/teaserimages/090520civic-center310.jpg

[ShekelPop]

It seems like the City Hall project is the most feasible project on the boards right now simply because of the potential economic benefits. I was trying to think of other proposals or projects where the city could reap a long term net gain, but all I can really think of is Qualcomm redevelopment (and even that is tenuous because it involves potential stadium construction which is usually not cost effective). Can you guys think of other things besides City Hall where the City or county could be looking at tangible cost gains if only they would put more effort into getting something through?

[mongoXZ]

On a grand scale: a larger international airport?

[kpexpress]

Good news but let's see how long it'll take to actually break ground. I won't hold my breath. It's funny to see some of the comments made about this on signonsandiego. ie this idiotic comment by "sky173":

"I am all through San Diego everyday. The metropolitan playground is about to collapse because of overbuilding downtown. The homeless and gangs will be living in all the overbuilt units down there because no one will be able to sell them, so they will have to rent them cheap.. North Park is growing because Hillcrest got too small for the homosexuals. There's not too many other places in the city where they will be tolerated!"

Whenever I need a good laugh I always look at the reader's comments under the articles.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/teaserimages/090520civic-center310.jpg

I used to wonder why San Diego lacks the long term vision of growth and development in the public sector (ie expanded trolley, street cars, airport, stadium, etc) but now after reading all the comments on that article I realized that the people down here are so disconnected from what's needed in terms of public capital improvement. They seem to over look what capital improvements will bring to the area.... lower operating costs, job creation, increased revenue, economic stimulation, etc. Sometimes I hate San Diego when I read comments from the dumb public on the UT.

[kpexpress]

What has Oliver McMillan done?

http://www.olivermcmillan.com/deve/DTSD/index.htm

[Mid-Michigan]

( Not sure if this is for a short period, though I'm really starting to like San Diego more... I think the beaches and landscape may be part of it)

[Derek]

http://www.olivermcmillan.com/deve/DTSD/index.htm




I don't get it.

[eburress]

San Diego is a town FULL of NIMBYs who only care about their own property values - not job creation, increased revenue, economic stimulation, etc...

[leftopolis]

San Diego is one step closer to a new City Hall...

...http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/20/bn20civic132053/?metro&zIndex=102626

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2009/05/20/civic-center_t350.jpg

[IconRPCV]

Don't just hate on SD hate on the whole USA. The vast majority of americans are dumb, bigoted, closed minded individuals. I am afraid no one knew the extent of this until the internet allowed them to voice their opinions freely without fear of repercussions.

[Derek]

I agree. People in the United States are retarded, particularly in San Diego.

[kpexpress]

Don't just hate on SD hate on the whole USA. The vast majority of americans are dumb, bigoted, closed minded individuals. I am afraid no one knew the extent of this until the internet allowed them to voice their opinions freely without fear of repercussions.

:worship: :worship: SO TRUE!!!!! SOMEBODY SAID IT:banana:

[kpexpress]

Nice pano I took this afternoon from the 19th floor of the leasing office of Smart Corner.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/panosmartcorner.jpg

[kpexpress]

Demo updates from Smart Corner:

Goodyear:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05612.jpg

13th Street Park (CCDC):
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05614.jpg

Closer:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05613.jpg

[leftopolis]

Anybody have any further thoughts on the new City Hall building, which looks to be a fairly sure bet? I like it. At 34 stories it could be around 450'. It reminds me a bit of San Jose's new city hall--in the sense of the modern style--thus the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in CA, would have that commonality.

More info in the City Hall(from Gerding/Edlin), which is only the first phase of a multi-phase proposal: HERE (http://www.gerdingedlen.com/project.php?id=71)

on edit: Great panorama btw(a couple posts up)!

[mongoXZ]

I passed by East Village for the first time in a few months and I noticed that Strata looks HUGE! It looks bigger and bulkier than the renderings. Remember how there were rumors that they were paring it down to 15 floors?

As for the new city hall project: I like it a lot. It was much better than the boxy Hines proposal. The centerpiece 500' tower looks like a good change from the typical boxes that have sprouted up in our skyline over the last decade.

[kpexpress]

I passed by East Village for the first time in a few months and I noticed that Strata looks HUGE! It looks bigger and bulkier than the renderings. Remember how there were rumors that they were paring it down to 15 floors?

As for the new city hall project: I like it a lot. It was much better than the boxy Hines proposal. The centerpiece 500' tower looks like a good change from the typical boxes that have sprouted up in our skyline over the last decade.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05619-1.jpg
Stratta is HUGE! Looks way taller due to the fact that the curved part of the building has no setback, straight UP! I love this building, it's true that the renderings did not give it justice. I'm stoked for it, but hope that the ground level retail doesn't stay empty for years like The Mark and Icon. And please no more pharmacy stores.

[keg92101]

Stratta is HUGE! Looks way taller due to the fact that the curved part of the building has no setback, straight UP! I love this building, it's true that the renderings did not give it justice. I'm stoked for it, but hope that the ground level retail doesn't stay empty for years like The Mark and Icon. And please no more pharmacy stores.[/QUOTE]

$20 says the retail will be something the neighborhood has no need for...

Why can't we have a Trader Joes?????

[kpexpress]

Stratta is HUGE! Looks way taller due to the fact that the curved part of the building has no setback, straight UP! I love this building, it's true that the renderings did not give it justice. I'm stoked for it, but hope that the ground level retail doesn't stay empty for years like The Mark and Icon. And please no more pharmacy stores.

$20 says the retail will be something the neighborhood has no need for...

Why can't we have a Trader Joes?????[/QUOTE]

Alright, I was waiting for this to happen. EVERYONE PLEASE WEIGH IN, HERE'S THE QUESTION:

WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE GO IN AT THE GROUND LEVEL RETIAL SPACE IN STRATTA? TWO ANSWERS, WANT, AND A REALISTIC GUESS.

mine:
I would love to see a Target Urban Store. http://www.newurbannews.com/TargetInsideOct05.html

My guess is that it will sit empty for three years with a for lease sign in the window. Just please no more pharmacies or sports bars!!!

[kpexpress]

One more question for everyone. Who FREAKIN' loves Market 32 on 10th and Island? I DO. If you haven't tried the Acai berry bowl with the works, you need to. But what's up with the uping of the price? Now $5.99. My thoughts are that if they break the $5 level they need to offer two different sizes! I shared my thoughts with them, but haven't seen much action taken yet.

if you haven't been to Market 32, GO! Tomorrow! Amazing fruit, cool guys. They just rented that historic house on 13th between Park Blvd East Garage and the historic Victorian on the corner of 13th and Island.

[keg92101]

$20 says the retail will be something the neighborhood has no need for...

Why can't we have a Trader Joes?????

Alright, I was waiting for this to happen. EVERYONE PLEASE WEIGH IN, HERE'S THE QUESTION:

WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE GO IN AT THE GROUND LEVEL RETIAL SPACE IN STRATTA? TWO ANSWERS, WANT, AND A REALISTIC GUESS.

mine:
I would love to see a Target Urban Store. http://www.newurbannews.com/TargetInsideOct05.html

My guess is that it will sit empty for three years with a for lease sign in the window. Just please no more pharmacies or sports bars!!![/QUOTE]

That is exactly what will show up.

The corner spot will probably be a dry cleaner, even though there is a 1600 SF urban plaza at the tower set back. And they will probably put in a pharmacy at the large double height area.

I think there needs to be some sort of retail sub-committee of the CCAC, that will allow input from the community as to what continues to be necessary in the area that will actually service the residents, not an attempt to extend the gaslamp east for convention tourists.

[S.DviaPhilly]

I have been reading the forum for a while and decided to join and chime in on what I would want in East Village. Both Trader Joes and Target are among them......Even though people say no more pharmacies, I would like CVS in the old Pep Boys building (I think) across from the bowling alley and new Stratta, and a Wells Fargo around the area, as I think the closest one is on 1st and Market. But of course you know another dog or pet place would just do wonderful in the area as there are not enough of them within that block.

Is there a way to contact Target or Trader Joes headquarters and let them know these spots would be great for their respective businesses?????

I also think that a lot of the empty retail will start filling in once the Thomas Jefferson law school is built and people actually hang around that area during the day (sandwich shops, etc.)

[kpexpress]

I have been reading the forum for a while and decided to join and chime in on what I would want in East Village. Both Trader Joes and Target are among them......Even though people say no more pharmacies, I would like CVS in the old Pep Boys building (I think) across from the bowling alley and new Stratta, and a Wells Fargo around the area, as I think the closest one is on 1st and Market. But of course you know another dog or pet place would just do wonderful in the area as there are not enough of them within that block.

Is there a way to contact Target or Trader Joes headquarters and let them know these spots would be great for their respective businesses?????

I also think that a lot of the empty retail will start filling in once the Thomas Jefferson law school is built and people actually hang around that area during the day (sandwich shops, etc.)

Welcome to the forum! Just curious why you say you would like to see another pharmacy go in at the old pep boys building? We do not need more dog places in the EV, we already have City Dog on Park, and Pet Food Supply three blocks from it, and the Vet on Market, and Furry Tails next to it, add another and I see one or more of the existing places going under. We already have seen Metropawlitan Dog go out of business.

[PadreHomer]

I hope they tear down the Pep Boys building. I was so happy when RiteAid fell through. No single story single use buildings surrounded by parking in downtown please!

[mello]

Nice pano I took this afternoon from the 19th floor of the leasing office of Smart Corner.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/panosmartcorner.jpg

Can you try re posting it. I haven't been back in a year and a half, and a skyline shot from that vantage point is pretty rare. Stratta does look good, just wish it could have been 35 or 40 floors...

[S.DviaPhilly]

Welcome to the forum! Just curious why you say you would like to see another pharmacy go in at the old pep boys building? We do not need more dog places in the EV, we already have City Dog on Park, and Pet Food Supply three blocks from it, and the Vet on Market, and Furry Tails next to it, add another and I see one or more of the existing places going under. We already have seen Metropawlitan Dog go out of business.

Thanks for the welcome......In regards to the pet places, I was being sarcastic, I think its a riot on the amount of pet places within that block. I have never seen that in any city anywhere! I like CVS's and the closest pharmacy to me is the Long's. I think a CVS would do great a few more blocks east. The Longs is not a long walk from my place (P.B.E), but when the city builds further east, we will need a pharmacy closer to all the new buildings.

Also, being from the east and from Philly, I would love to see a Dunkin Donuts come into my neighborhood (best coffee and bagels and muffins), or a WAWA! Wawa's are the best anything and everything (I know people from my neck of the woods would agree.) I also really love the market 32, bummed to hear that the bowls are over 5 bucks now. I told them as well to have two different sizes, but at least they listened to me to add blueberries to the bowl. Real awesome guys, glad they rented that house on 13th!

[S.DviaPhilly]

I hope they tear down the Pep Boys building. I was so happy when RiteAid fell through. No single story single use buildings surrounded by parking in downtown please!

I agree with that statement, but it has to be tall and cool. How about a highrise commercial building there? We need more people during the day in that part of East Village to sustain any kind of businesses there that are not bars. I would rather see a CVS then an empty building and parking lot for years though

[kpexpress]

I agree with that statement, but it has to be tall and cool. How about a highrise commercial building there? We need more people during the day in that part of East Village to sustain any kind of businesses there that are not bars. I would rather see a CVS then an empty building and parking lot for years though

You know what would be awesome? Is if my school (NSAD) purchased the lot and build a highrise campus! We are basically at capacity with the student population and the admin has been talking about the need to grow! They have looked at a few sites in downtown and are committed to stay in downtown. 700-1000 students rolling around the East Village during the day (and night...all night) would be a good thing. The East Village is home to many campuses, TOM J, CITY, NSAD, FIDM, SDHS, LIbrary (maybe). I wish there was more affordable housing (and not just for homeless and pedophiles) in the East Village. I would love to see more family oriented row homes in the far east village as well.

[keg92101]

You know what would be awesome? Is if my school (NSAD) purchased the lot and build a highrise campus! We are basically at capacity with the student population and the admin has been talking about the need to grow! They have looked at a few sites in downtown and are committed to stay in downtown. 700-1000 students rolling around the East Village during the day (and night...all night) would be a good thing. The East Village is home to many campuses, TOM J, CITY, NSAD, FIDM, SDHS, LIbrary (maybe). I wish there was more affordable housing (and not just for homeless and pedophiles) in the East Village. I would love to see more family oriented row homes in the far east village as well.

Well, you can buy your very own family oriented row home at the Mark for a cool Million!

[cata77]

Why does the OAP look different??

[bmfarley]

Alright, I was waiting for this to happen. EVERYONE PLEASE WEIGH IN, HERE'S THE QUESTION:

WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE GO IN AT THE GROUND LEVEL RETIAL SPACE IN STRATTA? TWO ANSWERS, WANT, AND A REALISTIC GUESS.


Mine: I would like to see an consumer electronics store or something similar. Is it large enough for a BestBuy? Or a Staples? How about a Kinko's? Or a resturant like PF Chang's.

[IconRPCV]

I would want a Trader Joes!

[keg92101]

I would want a Trader Joes!

I second that...

[mongoXZ]

7-11? We don't have enough of those downtown.

[Derek]

x2 on a Best Buy or a Staples or an Apple store.

[kpexpress]

One thing I love about the Apple stores that I have visited, besides the cool design [products and buidings], is that the location of all the stores have been in dense urban environments and not in malls. I would think that if Apple puts a store downtown it would go in on fifth avenue along side other higher end retail stores.

I would love to see a Trader Joes in Stratta!!

[S.DviaPhilly]

Anyone else see the sculpture outside of Vantage Point on 10th? The more art the better downtown, but what is it, angel wings?

[kpexpress]

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/29/1m29stadium232457-despite-critics-developer-shows-/?metro&zIndex=107389

[HurricaneHugo]

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/29/1m29stadium232457-despite-critics-developer-shows-/?metro&zIndex=107389

A bit too ambitious but I like it lol

[staplesla]

So I heard from a friend of mine today that he's received his deposit back from Vantage Point as they still haven't received their occupancy permit. Anyone know what is going on with this place? If they don't get their act together soon I'm afraid they're going to file bankruptcy in this market and we'll be left with a huge dark building.

[bmfarley]

So I heard from a friend of mine today that he's received his deposit back from Vantage Point as they still haven't received their occupancy permit. Anyone know what is going on with this place? If they don't get their act together soon I'm afraid they're going to file bankruptcy in this market and we'll be left with a huge dark building.It sounds like you're a week or two behind the information curve! VP is returning all deposits and taking all units off the market and instead will turn into a rental building.

[staplesla]

It sounds like you're a week or two behind the information curve! VP is returning all deposits and taking all units off the market and instead will turn into a rental building.

Oh wow, thanks. I've been in NYC for 3 weeks so haven't paid much attention.

[staplesla]

Architects working on a new San Diego Convention Center wing say it wouldn't just be for tourists but would offer something for locals, such as a rooftop restaurant and a pedestrian bridge with easier access to San Diego Bay.

The city's nonprofit Convention Center agency today will unveil the preliminary layout of a hoped-for expansion that would bring the entire building to 1.2 million square feet.

Drawings depict nearly 400,000 additional square feet, of which 225,000 would be prime exhibit space — which convention officials say they need to keep competing for large, lucrative shows.

The expansion is not as big as initially desired because of land constraints at the only site deemed workable.

But it would keep San Diego in the top 13 American convention cities, according to one estimate, though many others are also eyeing expansions.

And it would be big enough to continue housing the mega-show Comic-Con if the San Diego-born comic book convention wants to stay, Convention Center President Carol Wallace said.

Mayor Jerry Sanders appointed a task force to determine whether the city should expand the center, which currently measures 814,000 square feet, including 615,000 square feet of exhibit space. The task force, which has issued no opinion, will see a presentation on the preliminary architectural plans at a public meeting from 6 to 8 p.m. today at the Convention Center.

A spokesman for Tucker Sadler, the architecture firm that designed the 2001 expansion and was hired for initial work on what would be the center's third phase, said a main concern was opening better access to the bay and enlivening the bayfront walkway, known as the embarcadero.

“We want to make sure that people walk the entire embarcadero, that there is something there for them to experience,” said Gregory Mueller, president of Tucker Sadler.

The new wing would sit in front of the existing building, on the bay side. It would rise 40 feet above the southern wing but stand about as tall as the structure's signature “sails,” officials said.

The design team discarded another site — across Harbor Drive on parking lots now used by Petco Park, including Tailgate Park — because a previously unknown finger of the Rose Canyon earthquake fault was discovered there.

One eye-catching element of the bayfront design would be a 57-foot-high pedestrian bridge stretching from Fourth Avenue, across the Convention Center, to the water. Currently, walkers must summit a mountain of steps or take a slow-moving elevator to get from the Harbor Drive side to the bay side of the long building.

The city's Centre City Development Corp. is overseeing construction of a publicly financed, $26.8 million pedestrian bridge just down Harbor Drive at Park Boulevard. Views of that structure, meant to be iconic, would not be blocked because it will be lower, at 25 feet above the street, convention officials said.

One new aspect would be an improved pedestrian promenade along the bayfront, where navigation now is not straightforward. The new building would extend out toward the water, taking up what is currently a parking lot, but leave a 35-foot-wide walkway and a 25-foot-wide buffer area where cafe tables and chairs could spill out.

Another element of the design, which remains preliminary, would be a rooftop eatery open to the public. As yet, the publicly financed convention hall offers no shopping and no restaurants meant to serve residents.

Officials said they won't have a price tag until mid-month.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/02/convention-center-design-includes-more-space-and-p/?metro&zIndex=109407

[eburress]

A bit too ambitious but I like it lol

Not to belabor the point, but while something of that scale might work in certain other cities, there is NO chance of that happening here in San Diego. There are WAY too many NIMBYs, not nearly enough vision, and absolutely NO money.


Certain other cities:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3372/3574437611_52b3b96a12_o.jpg
(photo by TexasStar)

[Derek]

A bit too ambitious but I like it lol



x2. It's way to good to actually happen though.

[Derek]

Architects working on a new San Diego Convention Center wing say it wouldn't just be for tourists but would offer something for locals, such as a rooftop restaurant and a pedestrian bridge with easier access to San Diego Bay.

The city's nonprofit Convention Center agency today will unveil the preliminary layout of a hoped-for expansion that would bring the entire building to 1.2 million square feet.

Drawings depict nearly 400,000 additional square feet, of which 225,000 would be prime exhibit space — which convention officials say they need to keep competing for large, lucrative shows.

The expansion is not as big as initially desired because of land constraints at the only site deemed workable.

But it would keep San Diego in the top 13 American convention cities, according to one estimate, though many others are also eyeing expansions.

And it would be big enough to continue housing the mega-show Comic-Con if the San Diego-born comic book convention wants to stay, Convention Center President Carol Wallace said.

Mayor Jerry Sanders appointed a task force to determine whether the city should expand the center, which currently measures 814,000 square feet, including 615,000 square feet of exhibit space. The task force, which has issued no opinion, will see a presentation on the preliminary architectural plans at a public meeting from 6 to 8 p.m. today at the Convention Center.

A spokesman for Tucker Sadler, the architecture firm that designed the 2001 expansion and was hired for initial work on what would be the center's third phase, said a main concern was opening better access to the bay and enlivening the bayfront walkway, known as the embarcadero.

“We want to make sure that people walk the entire embarcadero, that there is something there for them to experience,” said Gregory Mueller, president of Tucker Sadler.

The new wing would sit in front of the existing building, on the bay side. It would rise 40 feet above the southern wing but stand about as tall as the structure's signature “sails,” officials said.

The design team discarded another site — across Harbor Drive on parking lots now used by Petco Park, including Tailgate Park — because a previously unknown finger of the Rose Canyon earthquake fault was discovered there.

One eye-catching element of the bayfront design would be a 57-foot-high pedestrian bridge stretching from Fourth Avenue, across the Convention Center, to the water. Currently, walkers must summit a mountain of steps or take a slow-moving elevator to get from the Harbor Drive side to the bay side of the long building.

The city's Centre City Development Corp. is overseeing construction of a publicly financed, $26.8 million pedestrian bridge just down Harbor Drive at Park Boulevard. Views of that structure, meant to be iconic, would not be blocked because it will be lower, at 25 feet above the street, convention officials said.

One new aspect would be an improved pedestrian promenade along the bayfront, where navigation now is not straightforward. The new building would extend out toward the water, taking up what is currently a parking lot, but leave a 35-foot-wide walkway and a 25-foot-wide buffer area where cafe tables and chairs could spill out.

Another element of the design, which remains preliminary, would be a rooftop eatery open to the public. As yet, the publicly financed convention hall offers no shopping and no restaurants meant to serve residents.

Officials said they won't have a price tag until mid-month.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/02/convention-center-design-includes-more-space-and-p/?metro&zIndex=109407


Interesting.

[eburress]

x2. It's way to good to actually happen though.

Exactly! hahahaha

[mongoXZ]

Some images of the CC expansion provided by the Union-Tribune:
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2009/06/02/convention_t630.jpg?722e46dd685710b424f1719a69e3d2802eb9f1a6

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2009/06/02/convention1_t630.jpg?722e46dd685710b424f1719a69e3d2802eb9f1a6

[eburress]

^^ I'm glad the Spinnaker (sp?) is gone. I'm SOOO happy that never got built.

[mongoXZ]

Yeah, right. In its place is now a proposed ultra-unique. . . .box.

[IconRPCV]

^^ I'm glad the Spinnaker (sp?) is gone. I'm SOOO happy that never got built.


While it wasn't the greatest design at least it was different. We all complain about all the projects downtown being too boring, yet one that is different is too Dubai. I think we can agree on one thing, everyone likes to complain.

[eburress]

While it wasn't the greatest design at least it was different. We all complain about all the projects downtown being too boring, yet one that is different is too Dubai. I think we can agree on one thing, everyone likes to complain.

hahaha - very true. Opinions are like a-holes. :)

[staplesla]

Developer Perry Dealy told the Chargers and the Mayor's Office on Wednesday that he – and what was billed as a dream team of local land experts – are mothballing plans to replace Qualcomm Stadium in Mission Valley.

One of the plan's advocates, attorney Charles Black, said its quick dismissal should end all discussion about building a new facility for the Chargers on the 166-acre Qualcomm Stadium site.

“It appears as though there isn't going to be a new stadium in Qualcomm's future, at least not one where the Chargers play,” he said.

Team spokesman Mark Fabiani and the mayor's staff suggested Dealy's dense proposal was dead on arrival even before a public unveiling at a news conference last week. Turns out their obituary was only a wee bit premature.

“Just wanted to officially notify you that our 16 member volunteer task force . . . is immediately stopping any and all media outreach on our option,” Dealy wrote in an e-mail to the team and Mayor's Office. “What was a sincere and honest effort to independently develop a concept and framework that may have some life is not an option at this point in time.”

He added, “Under the auspices of no good deed goes unpunished, we somehow feel more negative has come out of this then was ever anticipated or intended.”

The plans to redevelop Qualcomm Stadium called for a new 70,000-seat stadium with a 16-story hotel, 3.7 million square feet of commercial space, 500,000 square feet of retail space and 5,900 condominiums and apartments.

Dealy did not return a call for comment.

Mayoral spokesman Darren Pudgil said the mayor intends to keep working with the Chargers on the team's search for a home.

“Given the circumstances, they made the right decision,” Pudgil said. “Any proposal will have to have the support of both the taxpayers and the Chargers, and this clearly didn't have the support of the Chargers, so it wouldn't have made any sense to move this forward.”

Fabiani replied via e-mail, “This announcement will make it easier for the Chargers to continue to focus on sites in San Diego County that may have a realistic chance of success.”

The Chargers had explored building a new stadium in Mission Valley several years ago – and dismissed it as unrealistic. The team, which has contemplated a new home for years, is looking at Chula Vista and considering other options.

Black, who co-chaired the effort with Dealy but did not attend last week's news conference, said the decision to pull the plug on the plan was simple.

“We were beginning to see even on the the day that that unveiling occurred that the proposal wasn't getting traction,” Black said. “My thought was if it's not going to get traction, we certainly don't want to create problems for others,” namely the Chargers and the Mayor's Office.

“Had we known fully what the Chargers' position was, maybe that press conference wouldn't have gone forward,” he said.

Black added some good could come of the Qualcomm site redevelopment review if the city decides at some point to revisit the issue without a new stadium.

“Was it a wise move to do the study?” Black said. “I think so. It gave us a lot of information on the site.”

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/03/bn03stadium16374/

[kpexpress]

Some images of the CC expansion provided by the Union-Tribune:
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2009/06/02/convention_t630.jpg?722e46dd685710b424f1719a69e3d2802eb9f1a6

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2009/06/02/convention1_t630.jpg?722e46dd685710b424f1719a69e3d2802eb9f1a6

Is it just me or does the convention center seem like SD's steel curtain berlin wall. Eating at Tinfish one would never know that you're a block from the bay. The behemoth of a structure really cuts off site lines of the water from all streets and makes it so inconvenient for residents to access the bay. I wish that would could learn from Vancouver and build the convention center out into the water on a pier, perpendicular to the water and allowing a green roof park for residents. We seem to just keep proposing to further wall off our city from its most prized possession.....the bay.

[HurricaneHugo]

It's already blocked off so there's nothing we can do about that.

At least the design is good IMO.

Although it needs a cherry on top to make it perfect.

[eburress]

^^ Yeah, the proverbial ship has sailed. I suppose they could bulldoze through portions of the convention center and open it up (creating a series of smaller, but still-connected convention centers), but obviously that's not going to happen.

[Derek]

Developer Perry Dealy told the Chargers and the Mayor's Office on Wednesday that he – and what was billed as a dream team of local land experts – are mothballing plans to replace Qualcomm Stadium in Mission Valley.

One of the plan's advocates, attorney Charles Black, said its quick dismissal should end all discussion about building a new facility for the Chargers on the 166-acre Qualcomm Stadium site.

“It appears as though there isn't going to be a new stadium in Qualcomm's future, at least not one where the Chargers play,” he said.

Team spokesman Mark Fabiani and the mayor's staff suggested Dealy's dense proposal was dead on arrival even before a public unveiling at a news conference last week. Turns out their obituary was only a wee bit premature.

“Just wanted to officially notify you that our 16 member volunteer task force . . . is immediately stopping any and all media outreach on our option,” Dealy wrote in an e-mail to the team and Mayor's Office. “What was a sincere and honest effort to independently develop a concept and framework that may have some life is not an option at this point in time.”

He added, “Under the auspices of no good deed goes unpunished, we somehow feel more negative has come out of this then was ever anticipated or intended.”

The plans to redevelop Qualcomm Stadium called for a new 70,000-seat stadium with a 16-story hotel, 3.7 million square feet of commercial space, 500,000 square feet of retail space and 5,900 condominiums and apartments.

Dealy did not return a call for comment.

Mayoral spokesman Darren Pudgil said the mayor intends to keep working with the Chargers on the team's search for a home.

“Given the circumstances, they made the right decision,” Pudgil said. “Any proposal will have to have the support of both the taxpayers and the Chargers, and this clearly didn't have the support of the Chargers, so it wouldn't have made any sense to move this forward.”

Fabiani replied via e-mail, “This announcement will make it easier for the Chargers to continue to focus on sites in San Diego County that may have a realistic chance of success.”

The Chargers had explored building a new stadium in Mission Valley several years ago – and dismissed it as unrealistic. The team, which has contemplated a new home for years, is looking at Chula Vista and considering other options.

Black, who co-chaired the effort with Dealy but did not attend last week's news conference, said the decision to pull the plug on the plan was simple.

“We were beginning to see even on the the day that that unveiling occurred that the proposal wasn't getting traction,” Black said. “My thought was if it's not going to get traction, we certainly don't want to create problems for others,” namely the Chargers and the Mayor's Office.

“Had we known fully what the Chargers' position was, maybe that press conference wouldn't have gone forward,” he said.

Black added some good could come of the Qualcomm site redevelopment review if the city decides at some point to revisit the issue without a new stadium.

“Was it a wise move to do the study?” Black said. “I think so. It gave us a lot of information on the site.”

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/03/bn03stadium16374/



Big surprise.

[eburress]

In the interest of offering solutions to problems, here's how I fix SD's convention center.


The plan:

Bulldoze through the center of the convention center, extending 3rd and 5th avenues through the center, restoring sight lines and creating a more pedestrian-friendly environment. The convention center would be rebuilt somewhat taller and deeper, so that the center's square footage would actually be increased.

Fill in a small portion of the water along the rear of the convention center, which combined with an extended Park Blvd, would create open space and a gorgeous boulevard.

Somewhat related: bulldoze through and rebuild Horton Plaza, creating a pedestrian-friendly, urban shopping district. Imagine seeing the water while shopping at Horton Plaza.

Easy as 1 2 3. :)

http://www.ericburress.com/sandiego/sdcc.png

[JSsocal]

^^^Cool proposal, the only unfortunate problem I believe would be that it just makes the convention center a whole lot less attractive to those holding conventions there, possibly driving some of them out, (like Comic-con).

Though in terms of boosting street life, your proposal is fantastic. The area behind the convention center is dead, and could really use shops, and to just become more pedestrian friendly

[spoonman]

Very nice map...I think that's a step in the right direction.

My vote would be for the tunneling of Harbor Drive and the train tracks. Those stupid tracks have screwed up access for cars and pedestrians...

Cut and cover isn't that expensive and I think it would be better spent (at least in the near term) than decking over the freeway. Instead the city is squandering money on not one but now 2 pedestrian bridges.

[tdavis]

Very nice map...I think that's a step in the right direction.

My vote would be for the tunneling of Harbor Drive and the train tracks. Those stupid tracks have screwed up access for cars and pedestrians...

Cut and cover isn't that expensive and I think it would be better spent (at least in the near term) than decking over the freeway. Instead the city is squandering money on not one but now 2 pedestrian bridges.

Tunneling of the tracks is already in the works. When the HSR comes through federal law states a road can't intersect with a rail line where the rail cars travel in excess of a certain speed (can't remember which speed). They are waiting to tunnel the tracks at the same time they bring in the HSR so they can do it all at once.

[bmfarley]

Tunneling of the tracks is already in the works. When the HSR comes through federal law states a road can't intersect with a rail line where the rail cars travel in excess of a certain speed (can't remember which speed). They are waiting to tunnel the tracks at the same time they bring in the HSR so they can do it all at once.

The California High Speed Rail preferred alignment, which was adopted, has HSR stopping at Santa Fe Depot. Ideas having HSR extended to the South Bay and possibly border are fantasy. One reason is for the very idea you forwarded; ridiculously expensive and little benefit.

[kpexpress]

Very nice map...I think that's a step in the right direction.

My vote would be for the tunneling of Harbor Drive and the train tracks. Those stupid tracks have screwed up access for cars and pedestrians...

Cut and cover isn't that expensive and I think it would be better spent (at least in the near term) than decking over the freeway. Instead the city is squandering money on not one but now 2 pedestrian bridges.

Putting the railroad tracks along Harbor Drive would do wonders to boost the overall quality of downtown and that neighborhood.

As for clearing out portions of the Convention Center, this is not feasible and likely. The Convention Center is only getting older (not saying it too old at this point), but the fact is the city will always need to keep putting money into it to update, expand, etc. I think that revising the long term Convention Center plan would be wise so we can start seeing an integration of these principles and goals.

As for the map of extending streets "through" some of the NorthSouth streets, I think it's a great idea. Perhaps there is an opportunity to connect each of the individual buildings with convention space under the streets. That would be very nice and would make it so we wouldn't "lack" in any degree and thus missing out on important conventions like Comicon. A few light connection bridges connecting pedestrians across the streets (like 5th AVe) would be neat to see as well.

With the released plans, I am not sure if I like the idea of having the convention center come all the to the waters edge. Not sure if that's a healthy thing; I'm afraid that it will only make that water edge area a dead zone, and inactive. I am a huge fan of having a nice green area along the waters edge and once the harbor bridge pedestrian bridge open we will see a lot more people from East Village using it more often, and I hope we will see a boost in the use of the ferry from that new ferry stop.

[Marina_Guy]

^^^Cool proposal, the only unfortunate problem I believe would be that it just makes the convention center a whole lot less attractive to those holding conventions there, possibly driving some of them out, (like Comic-con).

Though in terms of boosting street life, your proposal is fantastic. The area behind the convention center is dead, and could really use shops, and to just become more pedestrian friendly

I just love how San Diego has to build a huge new convention center and the only justification is to keep a 4 day convention, once a year - Comicon. I don't think this convention is even a big stimulus for local business because its attendees don't tend to spend as much as other conventions on a per capita basis. How do people get away with this stuff.

I appreciate this forum as there are some very interesting ideas that get shared, but as the followers and contributors know there is so little vision in this 'Town' by elected leaders that nothing gets done to move San Diego into a higher tier of Cities.

[eburress]

^^^Cool proposal, the only unfortunate problem I believe would be that it just makes the convention center a whole lot less attractive to those holding conventions there, possibly driving some of them out, (like Comic-con).

Though in terms of boosting street life, your proposal is fantastic. The area behind the convention center is dead, and could really use shops, and to just become more pedestrian friendly

What about the convention center would become less attractive? I'm not saying it wouldn't...just that I don't honestly know which qualities are/are not appealing to convention planners.

[staplesla]

The California High Speed Rail preferred alignment, which was adopted, has HSR stopping at Santa Fe Depot. Ideas having HSR extended to the South Bay and possibly border are fantasy. One reason is for the very idea you forwarded; ridiculously expensive and little benefit.

My husband is the project manager for the HSR and I can attest to the comments of tdavis. The lines will be lowered (canyon like). Because of the grade variant required for an increase/decrease in elevation, the trolley lines will be lowered to the south of Santa Fe as well.

[staplesla]

I don't understand why we give up prime space along the waterfront for convention space. Those at the convention are inside the large halls, with no view of the bay anyway. And when they get out of their convention for the day, they can then enjoy bay front activities should they choose to do so.

The expansion would barely keep the SD convention space in the top 15 spaces nationwide as many of the others are also expanding.

I'd rather see the convention space be built elsewhere in downtown, in an area with trolley access, and in an area that can allow for some expansion to the size that will keep the SD convention space in the top 10 nationwide.

The waterfront should be for the daily use of the citizens of San Diego, not a select few on random days throughout the year held up in space where the intent isn't to enjoy the outside, but meetings inside.

[SDCAL]

While it wasn't the greatest design at least it was different. We all complain about all the projects downtown being too boring, yet one that is different is too Dubai. I think we can agree on one thing, everyone likes to complain.

I don't think it's fair to compare the tower in Dubai to the (hopefully) dead Spinnaker proposal. That type of design looks elegant with height, and the Dubai tower is something like like 10 times taller

There are good "different" designs and "bad" different ones

I am all for thinking out of the box, and I truly see how boring SD is even compared to proposals on the LA thread that are much more original and edgy

But I'd take boring over some poorly designed piece of turd like the Spinnaker was, it did not look edgy and grand, it looked cheap and pathetic :jester:

[SDCAL]

If you ever want any proof that San Diego is a haven for anti-development NIMBY psychos, just read the comments sections when a development story comes out in the UT.

Today, there is an article about anti-progress city councilman Carl DeMaio pushing for a public vote on building a new City Hall (he is against it), and the comments overwhelmingly show people here want to vote 'NO'

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/06/1m6b2briefs232926-short-takes/?metro&zIndex=111908&dsq=10570745#comment-10570745

Here is a taste of what San Diegan's have to say about a new city hall from the UT comments section :

jnojr
"Here's my vote: No.
I have no problem with the city being governed from an old, drab building. And I'm more than fine if they cry they're "running out of room"... stop increasing the size of government, stop hiring more entitled union employees.
Working, taxpaying citizens would be better off with a 20% across-the-board reduction in government. Slash right through everything. The "takers" won't be so thrilled, but I don't particularly care. Move somewhere else."

GroundAndPoundIsBack
"A brand-spanking new city hall?? BWAHHAH.
How about Katrina-style trailers for the city hall trash to work out of? At least the crap quality work will match the crap work space "

LightningBolt
""No" to building a new city hall. Especially in a time like this when the city is so short of funds. "

playsomeskynyrd
"I say demolish the current city hall and don't replace it. That way the city officials will have no place to work and hopefully we can get rid of them that way "

SunnyDeigo
"I will vote "No." If you need more office space, fire some of the deadwood. And anyone who deals with the city knows there's still plenty of deadwood. "

Licentia1963
"Tear it down and put the dog park there! Its already full of sh*t anyway!"

-With THIS kind of attitude, San Diego will never be a great city.

These people can't even seperate in their own minds the difference between government BUILDINGS and government WORKERS

If you don't like current elected officials, vote them out, government officals are just transitional, but city hall buildings say something about our city. They represent our city, not whoever happens to be mayor or on the city council

Voting to keep an inadequate, old, crumbling, decaying, emabrassing city hall because you happen to not like the current government makes absolutely no sense.

[Marina_Guy]

Voting to keep an inadequate, old, crumbling, decaying, emabrassing FILL IN THE BLANK because you happen to not like the current government makes absolutely no sense.

FILL IN THE BLANK

I still have hope that someday, someone with some brains and vision will take this 'town' by storm and lift it up. My hope dwindles by the day.

leadership wise, I still think this town is very ripe for the picking.

[sandiegodweller]

Anyone still think that hotels are not overplanned/overbuilt in downtown?

Sunstone prepared to turn over W San Diego to bank
The Associated Press
4:47 p.m. June 7, 2009
SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. — Sunstone Hotel Investors Inc. said Sunday it will default on the June mortgage payment for its swanky W Hotel San Diego property and turn over the 258-room downtown hotel to lenders, after failing to lower interest payments.
The real estate investment trust said Sunday its San Diego hotel has been hurt by "significant and continuing deterioration in demand for luxury lodging" as well as the opening of luxury boutique hotels, two additional Starwood-branded hotels and a 1,190-room convention hotel nearby.
Sunstone purchased the W San Diego in June 2006 for $96 million from developers including Starwood Hotels, Gatehouse Capital and Multi-Employer Development Partners. The hotel carries a $65 million, fixed-rate commercial mortgage-backed securities loan with a 6.14 percent interest rate, which comes due Jan. 1, 2018. The mortgage principal translates to more than $250,000 in debt per room.
San Clemente, Calif.-based Sunstone said its loan special servicer has declined the company's attempts at renegotiating interest payments lower. Since Sunstone feels the W San Diego is now worth much less than what it owes, the company would rather turn it over to the bank than have hefty interest payments continue to drain cash from its balance sheet.
"While the company maintains more than adequate liquidity to support or repay this mortgage, we believe a conveyance of this hotel in settlement of the debt would be in the best interest of our stockholders," Chief Financial Officer Ken Cruse, said in a statement.
Cruse said the move would deleverage Sunstone and add to its funds from operations – an industry profit measure – and credit profile.
Sunstone Hotel warned it could pursue similar options with a limited number of its other mortgaged hotels, but declined to identify any properties that might be in danger of default. Last month, Sunstone amended terms on some of its senior notes so that any default on less than $300 million worth of debt won't trigger noteholders to call in payment of their bonds. That would make it easier for the company to potentially shed other troubled hotels in the same fashion.
As of March 31, the company owned 43 hotels in the upper-upscale segment operated under brands including Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Fairmont and Starwood. It has been restructuring its credit facility and soliciting bids for new mortgage debt on several of its hotels.
Hotel real estate investment trusts have been hit hard by the credit crunch and by job losses which have curbed business and vacation travel. Analysts expect hotel margins will decline this year, given that hotels aren't cutting major services as they struggle to attract travelers.
Sunstone Hotel said that across its portfolio, revenue per available room – an industry performance measure known as RevPAR – slid 24.5 percent to $98.73 in the quarter ended May 31. That's nearly double the 13 percent drop it saw in the first quarter.
RevPAR for the month of May fell 24.4 percent and year-to-date is down 19.6 percent to $97.53.
"We continue to run our business with the expectation that 2009 will be one of the deepest cyclical troughs the lodging industry has endured," Arthur Buser, president and chief executive, said in a statement. "While we are generally pleased with our results thus far this year, as our recent revenue declines are largely the result of lower rate, rather than reduced occupancy, we expect margin control will become increasingly difficult."
Sunstone said the company has asked hotel operators to develop "zero-based" budgets and adjust staffing models for minimum business levels. The REIT plans to hold a conference call at 5 p.m. EDT Monday to update stockholders on recent business performance and transactions.

[keg92101]

Anyone still think that hotels are not overplanned/overbuilt in downtown?

Sunstone prepared to turn over W San Diego to bank
The Associated Press
4:47 p.m. June 7, 2009
SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. — Sunstone Hotel Investors Inc. said Sunday it will default on the June mortgage payment for its swanky W Hotel San Diego property and turn over the 258-room downtown hotel to lenders, after failing to lower interest payments.


Or maybe that they overpaid for it?

[Derek]

I like the way Strata is looking.

[kpexpress]

I like the way Strata is looking.

I think the Stratta is looking mighty sharp looking myself. I was talking with my wife about it tonight, can't wait for the rest of the crown to be built, I love the curve with no setbacks. Cool stuff. Also, it really makes a huge difference to the market street high rise corridor.

[HurricaneHugo]

Pics or it didn't happen. :D

[eburress]

Here is a taste of what San Diegan's have to say about a new city hall from the UT comments section :


It seemed like this was much more of a commentary on this city's government than on the actual city hall.

:notacrook:

[sopas ej]

I hope the new city hall does get built; I always felt San Diego needed a new one; the current one is gross and is obviously inadequate for a city of well over a million people.

I find it interesting, though, that before the current one was built, the city hall shared space with what is now solely the San Diego County Administration Bldg.

[HurricaneHugo]

So this is my prompt for my history of San Diego class i'm taking:

A) What are recommendations for ways we can stimulate the local regional economy? What are ways that SD has dealt with economic challenges in the past?

B) Constraints faced? How much of will our history determine what's possible? Should we worry about prop 13? Water? Education?

C) How should I think about these options? What tools of policy and economic analysis are available to me to understand the pros and cons of the choices? What questions should I ask and how should I evaluate the proposals?
----
I'm writing mostly about the airport/convention center/stadium and how they can help. Not sure if prop 13 affects things much.

What recommendations would you guys have?

[SDCAL]

It seemed like this was much more of a commentary on this city's government than on the actual city hall.

:notacrook:

The point is they can't seperate the two, they won't vote for a new city hall -

And there was a follow-up story today saying the mayor wants it to go to a vote, so it looks like the new city hall will be in the hands of the voters

in other words, embrace the crumbling asbestos laden roach motels we have now, they are here to stay

[sandiegodweller]

Or maybe that they overpaid for it?

The brand new Hilton has rooms for $99 per night right now. Wait until the new Marriott on 5th Avenue and Hotel Indigo open in a few months. It will be a blood bath. I guarantee that they didn't build those hotels with $99 rooms in mind.

[HurricaneHugo]

So quick question...

How would Prop 13 affect building new infrastructure, new stadium, expanding the convention center, or a new airport?

[mello]

So quick question...

How would Prop 13 affect building new infrastructure, new stadium, expanding the convention center, or a new airport?

I'm not sure about that Hugo, but I too am interested to see what the direction of San Diego County is. What is the plan to bring decent paying jobs to this neighborhood, are we relegated to being a nice sunny place to live if you already have money?

I read articles about Denver, Charlotte, and Minneapolis and they have plans for how to grow industries and lure capital ventures in their respective metro areas. Their mayors and county officials talk about where they are looking to expand and how they are making themselves competitive.

Then we have the idiots posting on SignonSandiego.com who have absolutely no clue of what it is to be a big city. They want San Diego to be like San Luis Obispo with an NFL and MLB team. :haha:

Seriously we have biotech and some research stuff in UTC, Torrey Pines, area but other then that what jobs pay good money in this metro? How can anyone make over 70k a year after all of those "Loan Officer" jobs dried up without a degree in Biochemical Engineering or some crazy sh*t like that :shrug:

[keg92101]

The brand new Hilton has rooms for $99 per night right now. Wait until the new Marriott on 5th Avenue and Hotel Indigo open in a few months. It will be a blood bath. I guarantee that they didn't build those hotels with $99 rooms in mind.

Where are you finding that? I just looked on their website and the lowest is at $199.

You know, you sure offer criticism on anything and everything in this thread, or development in general. Is there not one good thing going on right now that is financially feasible, in your humble opinion? Or should everything just stop and wait for recovery?

[kpexpress]

http://www.sdvintagetrolley.com/

[staplesla]

http://www.sdvintagetrolley.com/

Any clue as to when the Trolley/Silver Line is to start? It was supposed to start in 2008.

[cata77]

Any clue as to when the Trolley/Silver Line is to start? It was supposed to start in 2008.

no clue, but it got my attention

[bmfarley]

no clue, but it got my attention

Volunteers are responsible for rehabing the cars. I believe they only have two cars. Maybe three. When done, it will operate in the clockwise direction only and only during off peak times... lunch and weekends.

[SDCAL]

Where are you finding that? I just looked on their website and the lowest is at $199.

You know, you sure offer criticism on anything and everything in this thread, or development in general. Is there not one good thing going on right now that is financially feasible, in your humble opinion? Or should everything just stop and wait for recovery?

this person is just anti-development; if you look back, even before the economy went sour it was all doomsday and negative opinions then too. They don't feel building should stop because of a bad economy, they think it should just stop. And never start again.

[sandiegodweller]

this person is just anti-development; if you look back, even before the economy went sour it was all doomsday and negative opinions then too. They don't feel building should stop because of a bad economy, they think it should just stop. And never start again.

Guess what, the economy was never good. The US doesn't produce anything to sell. We are the worlds biggest money brokers; we borrow money and re-lend it. Do you two read the news? The whole "house of cards" was built upon false incomes, false demand, easy entitlements, cheap money, etc.

Anti-development? I am in the business. That is how I know about a lot of these white elephant projects. Looking back over the past two years, I have been pretty accurate with my observations/predictions.

Is there a new Wal-Mart market on J Street yet? No

Did CosmoSquare go BK? Yes. Did it get built? No

Is Pointe of View a huge abortion? Yes

I am all for responsible and smart development. I am not in favor of speculative overbuilding for the sake of building (with phantom demand).

[voice of reason]

Most people on this forum are like children who think that they are playing with toy models of buildings. They say, 'this one would look way cool over there, put a light rail over here, lets move the airport-not a problem'.

They have no concept of taxes, budgets, consumer demand or feasability. The city should be designed to their whims and if you point out reality, then you are just a curmudgeon in their eyes.

[dl3000]

Most people on this forum are like children who think that they are playing with toy models of buildings. They say, 'this one would look way cool over there, put a light rail over here, lets move the airport-not a problem'.

They have no concept of taxes, budgets, consumer demand or feasability. The city should be designed to their whims and if you point out reality, then you are just a curmudgeon in their eyes.

Ah but many do know I am sure. The problem is that you can't please everyone, especially without much money.

[CoastersBolts]

Speaking of hotels going under like The W. I have a friend who works at the Ivy, which as we all know was the big up and coming botique which offered such things as stripper poles in certain rooms among other things. Let us not forget the trendy, "scenester", upscale club Envy. Well, the Ivy is suffering big time in the recession and business is not faring too well by any means. My friend has had to take a big pay cut already and is worried he may lose his job as several people have been laid off. The layoffs apparently are not finished yet, either.

Through the issues at The W and now the Ivy, it's quite apparent the economy is now purging the hotel industry, especially here in San Diego.

[Filambata]

Amen to that!! :tup:

Most people on this forum are like children who think that they are playing with toy models of buildings. They say, 'this one would look way cool over there, put a light rail over here, lets move the airport-not a problem'.

They have no concept of taxes, budgets, consumer demand or feasability. The city should be designed to their whims and if you point out reality, then you are just a curmudgeon in their eyes.

[kpexpress]

Amen to that!! :tup:

I see nothing wrong with discussing the conceptual possibilities of the city.

[dl3000]

I see nothing wrong with discussing the conceptual possibilities of the city.

Yeah its not like we have any political power anyway.

[mongoXZ]

Looks like the vision impaired whiners have infiltrated this thread.

[SDCAL]

Looks like the vision impaired whiners have infiltrated this thread.


exactly

sometimes the envelope needs to be pushed and the impossible needs to be considered. It won't always come to fruition, in fact most times it won't, but San Diego is lacking vision, creativity and is in the mindset of ultra-conservative mediocrity

Living here about 9 years I had hope, as the great geographical location has tremendous potential, but now I have given up because of attitudes like the ones above.

I am actually researching moving, I've had enough of the backwards morons who make decisions here

[sandiegodweller]

Maybe you could move to Dubai. They seem to have big dreams and unlimted economic resources.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

[Marina_Guy]

exactly

sometimes the envelope needs to be pushed and the impossible needs to be considered. It won't always come to fruition, in fact most times it won't, but San Diego is lacking vision, creativity and is in the mindset of ultra-conservative mediocrity

Living here about 9 years I had hope, as the great geographical location has tremendous potential, but now I have given up because of attitudes like the ones above.

I am actually researching moving, I've had enough of the backwards morons who make decisions here

Thoughts on what cities you are considering?? We have been considering a move too for the same reasons you state. San Diego has so much potential.

[tdavis]

Thoughts on what cities you are considering?? We have been considering a move too for the same reasons you state. San Diego has so much potential.

How weird that this is being discussed. My wife and I are going to Austin, TX this weekend to look at housing and possibly move. We've gotten tired of the lack of progress here and the economic problems with the state. My office is moving their headquarters from the Sorrento Valley area to Round Rock, TX (suburb of Austin) in 3 months.