SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[Marina_Guy]

What are you talking about??? The poroblem is that the TOT is SUPOSED to go back into tourism and it doesn't. The city keeps it for other purposes (overhead for Mike Aguirre's press conferences). The reason why the hotel industry did not want to raise TOT tax is that the city would spend it on things other than tourism. What the hotels have done is just like what we have in downtown. Create an assesment district to fund marketting for themselves. NO PROBLEM HERE. Its the only way you can actually get things done without the city wasting it away.

Excuse me, but TOT taxes are not for TOURISM... They are way to help pay for city services... Please read and learn. It should be an easy tax to get the citizens to support and remember tourists do impact city services. Just count how many fire trucks and ambulances go to the Manchester Grand Hyatt each month....


Transient Occupancy Tax:

Description: The Transient Occupancy Tax is a general tax imposed on occupants for the privilege of occupying room(s) in a hotel, motel, or inn.

Use of the revenues is unrestricted.

However, some cities budget a portion of the revenues for tourism and business development
purposes.

Authority: The authority to levy this tax is promulgated from the State Government Revenue and Taxation Code, more specifically, sections 7280 and 7281.

Overview: Cities may impose the transient occupancy tax on persons staying 30 days or less in a room(s) in a hotel, motel, inn, tourist home, non-membership campground or other lodging facility. Cities may also levy a tax on the privilege of renting a mobile home located outside a
mobile home park, unless such occupancy is for more than 30 days or unless the tenant is an employee of the owner.

According to the most recent survey available from the League of California Cities, transient occupancy tax rates ranged from 4 to 12 percent.

Nearly two-thirds (65.7 percent) of cities reported using their tax revenue as a general revenue for general fund purposes.

Currently, more than eighty (80) percent of cities in the state collect a transient occupancy tax.

Benefits of considering an increase in the Transient Occupancy Tax include placement of a larger portion of the tax burden to provide city services on transient visitors to the community. Residents benefit from this spreading of the costs of services over a larger tax base, including those visiting
the community, thereby lowering the cost of services to residents.

[keg92101]

Excuse me, but TOT taxes are not for TOURISM... They are way to help pay for city services... Please read and learn. It should be an easy tax to get the citizens to support and remember tourists do impact city services. Just count how many fire trucks and ambulances go to the Manchester Grand Hyatt each month....


Transient Occupancy Tax:

Description: The Transient Occupancy Tax is a general tax imposed on occupants for the privilege of occupying room(s) in a hotel, motel, or inn.

Use of the revenues is unrestricted.

However, some cities budget a portion of the revenues for tourism and business development
purposes.

Authority: The authority to levy this tax is promulgated from the State Government Revenue and Taxation Code, more specifically, sections 7280 and 7281.

Overview: Cities may impose the transient occupancy tax on persons staying 30 days or less in a room(s) in a hotel, motel, inn, tourist home, non-membership campground or other lodging facility. Cities may also levy a tax on the privilege of renting a mobile home located outside a
mobile home park, unless such occupancy is for more than 30 days or unless the tenant is an employee of the owner.

According to the most recent survey available from the League of California Cities, transient occupancy tax rates ranged from 4 to 12 percent.

Nearly two-thirds (65.7 percent) of cities reported using their tax revenue as a general revenue for general fund purposes.

Currently, more than eighty (80) percent of cities in the state collect a transient occupancy tax.

Benefits of considering an increase in the Transient Occupancy Tax include placement of a larger portion of the tax burden to provide city services on transient visitors to the community. Residents benefit from this spreading of the costs of services over a larger tax base, including those visiting
the community, thereby lowering the cost of services to residents.

I'm not arguing what it can be used for, or the definition of TOT. If you re-read the article, you'll find this quote:

That tax was originally established in the 1960s to fund tourism marketing, but City Hall has siphoned more and more of it for its general fund needs through the years

I agree that it should not be used strictly for tourism marketting, as these tourists use our services while they are here, and should pay for those services, but, funding the "general fund" has gotten so vague, the money has little impact on improving those services since those funds have to pay for areas that tourists don't use (like the suburbs).

[keg92101]

Benefits of considering an increase in the Transient Occupancy Tax include placement of a larger portion of the tax burden to provide city services on transient visitors to the community. Residents benefit from this spreading of the costs of services over a larger tax base, including those visiting
the community, thereby lowering the cost of services to residents.

2nd, we don't even pay for our own services (trash, etc..) if you live in a single family home.

[Marina_Guy]

2nd, we don't even pay for our own services (trash, etc..) if you live in a single family home.

My only point is that San Diegan's don't vote for new taxes. Right now the majority of San Diegans are cheap and conservative. TOT taxes are the easiest on the citiizen's pocket book... they don't pay them. Tourists do (and to some extent hotel operators ---) While we can try to squeeze more money out of the City... The simple fact is that there is not enough revenue to fund capital projects in the City. We will need more revenue. I don't think you will find anyone to disagree that the City is a fiscal and leadership mess, but it is also a infrastructure mess. One day we will have good leadership that will get the city in a place to invest and build again. I just find it sad that the Hotels are grabbing some funds that could be used for these efforts. By doing this 'marketing assessment' they will put the TOT inline with other markets and those funds will not be available to fund needed infrastructure. It is a cute end-around for the hotels.

[SDCAL]

can anyone give an update as to what is planning on going in there? I am very curious, is it some kind of secret? Perhaps anyone who can't say anything could at least say when something is supposed to go in?? :)

[keg92101]

can anyone give an update as to what is planning on going in there? I am very curious, is it some kind of secret? Perhaps anyone who can't say anything could at least say when something is supposed to go in?? :)

Someone here said a market, I just hope not Bristol Farms. That place is close to extortion, making Whole Foods seem like bargain basement!

[keg92101]

My only point is that San Diegan's don't vote for new taxes. Right now the majority of San Diegans are cheap and conservative. TOT taxes are the easiest on the citiizen's pocket book... they don't pay them. Tourists do (and to some extent hotel operators ---) While we can try to squeeze more money out of the City... The simple fact is that there is not enough revenue to fund capital projects in the City. We will need more revenue. I don't think you will find anyone to disagree that the City is a fiscal and leadership mess, but it is also a infrastructure mess. One day we will have good leadership that will get the city in a place to invest and build again. I just find it sad that the Hotels are grabbing some funds that could be used for these efforts. By doing this 'marketing assessment' they will put the TOT inline with other markets and those funds will not be available to fund needed infrastructure. It is a cute end-around for the hotels.

Would it require a city vote if trash services were charged to home owners? Even if, that may pass since anyone who lives in a condo, already pays for trash and would vote for SFH owners to pay for it as well.

[Filambata]

Would it require a city vote if trash services were charged to home owners? Even if, that may pass since anyone who lives in a condo, already pays for trash and would vote for SFH owners to pay for it as well.

If I remember correctly, there was an ordinance passed in the early 1900s prohibiting the City of San Diego from charging residents for trash collection. I don't remember the reason why. That ordinance will have to be repealed first before a fee can be assessed.

[SDCAL]

If I remember correctly, there was an ordinance passed in the early 1900s prohibiting the City of San Diego from charging residents for trash collection. I don't remember the reason why. That ordinance will have to be repealed first before a fee can be assessed.

Since the "early 1900s" prohibition and segregation were repealed and the 19th ammendment giving women the right to vote was passed - so i'm sure SD could take the bold move of repealing a trash collection fee ordinance -

[Derek]

STRONG INTEREST SHOWN FROM MAJOR DEVELOPMENT TEAMS FOR CIVIC CENTER COMPLEX REDEVELOPMENT
SAN DIEGO, CA — The Centre City Development Corporation (CCDC), working on behalf of the City of San Diego, today received eight Statements of Qualifications from prospective development teams interested in exploring a possible redevelopment of San Diego’s Civic Center Complex. A complete list of teams is included at the end of this release.

Teams from throughout the United States and Canada submitted. A diverse selection committee will convene by the end of October to review the proposals and short-list the teams to two to three finalists by the end of November.

“We are very pleased with the strong interest and response to this development opportunity,” said CCDC President Nancy Graham. “This demonstrates a vote of confidence in the San Diego real estate market. The selection committee’s next step will be to identify the two or three strongest development teams and then CCDC will begin the extensive public outreach process.”

The finalists will participate in a series of public meetings to be held throughout the city to share their prior development experiences and listen to public feedback, questions and ideas. Final proposals from all firms are currently scheduled to be due in mid-2008. Each finalist will be expected to incorporate ideas and suggestions gained from these public meetings into submitted plans.

Currently, San Diego’s City Administration Building accommodates only 600 employees, and the City has had to lease privately owned space for more than 15 years. City offices are now located within eight downtown buildings (four leased), representing more than one half million square feet of leased space.

Collectively, more than 3,000 employees work in these properties, which comprise annual leasing costs of $13.5 million. Deferred maintenance on the City Administration Building alone is estimated to exceed well above $10 million. Because most of the leases will come due in 2013 and 2014 and rates are projected to increase significantly, this RFQ is seen as a proactive approach to evaluate possible costs savings through redeveloping the site.

The RFQ process will include a thorough financial evaluation to ensure that a project would move forward only if it could clearly demonstrate a significant reduction in operational and capital costs to the City. Similar public/private partnership projects include the new city hall in Austin, Texas, and state-of-the-art courthouse facilities in New York City.

Goals of the RFQ include:
• Revitalizing the city’s civic core
• Catalyzing private sector development in the Civic Center area
• Providing more accessible public spaces
• Providing smart growth transit-oriented development
• Opening B Street, closed to pedestrian and vehicular traffic for 40 years
• Replacing aging infrastructure
• Constructing a more publicly accessible City Hall
• Increasing tax increment revenues generated to the City
• Utilizing sustainable development techniques.

[HurricaneHugo]

Nice.

[spoonman]

• Opening B Street, closed to pedestrian and vehicular traffic for 40 years


I would love to see the grid restored as much as possible.

[sandiegodweller]

STRONG INTEREST SHOWN FROM MAJOR DEVELOPMENT TEAMS FOR CIVIC CENTER COMPLEX REDEVELOPMENT

SAN DIEGO, CA — The Centre City Development Corporation (CCDC), working on behalf of the City of San Diego, today received eight Statements of Qualifications from prospective development teams interested in exploring a possible redevelopment of San Diego’s Civic Center Complex. A complete list of teams is included at the end of this release.




You missed an important part of the story, the actual applicants. It will be interesting to see if any of these groups can put together multi-billion dollar financing.

Sonnenblick-Del Rio Development, Inc., Los Angeles, CA

Gerding Edlen Development, Portland, OR

Kosene & Kosene Residential, Indianapolis, IN

Hines, Houston, TX

Thomas Properties Group, Inc., Los Angeles, CA

Douglas Wilson Companies, San Diego, CA

Lankford & Associates, Inc., San Diego, CA

Plenary Group, Vancouver, BC

[Derek]

Thanks for the additional information.

[HurricaneHugo]

So I saw a new crane pop up on the north side of Market, which project is this?

[keg92101]

So I saw a new crane pop up on the north side of Market, which project is this?

16th & Market. Affordable housing...

[Derek]

Found an interesting piece on Wikipedia. I think this may be Lane Field, but I'm not too sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embarcadero_Circle

[bmfarley]

Well, since we're into a lull, listing interesting links may now be in vogue..., and we sometimes discuss politics here.... Here's a San Diego political blog I just landed on...

San Diego Politico (http://www.sandiegopolitico.com/2007/10/next-mayor.html)

[Derek]

Firestorm 2007 has officially started.

:no:

[bmfarley]

Firestorm 2007 has officially started.

:no:early prediction; arson

[Derek]

How bad is the smoke in your part of town?

[bmfarley]

How bad is the smoke in your part of town?

At 3pm... smokish haze just krept over Banker's Hill and appears spreading southward to downtown. No ash... just the orange glow of sunshine.

[bmfarley]

It's not that bad now. Must have been a semi-slim trail of less dense smoke that passed over. It's mostly blue skies over Banker's Hill now. I suspect the same for Mission Valley and Qualcomm, although that location is probably 5 miles closer to the Santa Ysabel fire.

[Derek]

This is horrible.

[keg92101]

We just received a "Public Notice" that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law is planning to build an 8 story building on the south side of Island Avenue, between 11th & Park Blvd. Great news for the community, and it looks like the VOA site will actually be cleared soon.

[sandiegodweller]

We just received a "Public Notice" that the Thomas Jefferson School of Law is planning to build an 8 story building on the south side of Island Avenue, between 11th & Park Blvd. Great news for the community, and it looks like the VOA site will actually be cleared soon.
That is interesting. I was with the guys at Barratt Homes a few months ago and they had basically pulled the plug on the condo portion (above the Thomas Jefferson Schoool). I wonder if Barratt is selling the site to TJ or another commercial developer?

[keg92101]

That is interesting. I was with the guys at Barratt Homes a few months ago and they had basically pulled the plug on the condo portion (above the Thomas Jefferson Schoool). I wonder if Barratt is selling the site to TJ or another commercial developer?

The public notice says that it is a "commercial building" housing classrooms, offices, a library, cafe, and bookstore. It will also have 178 bellow grade parking spaces (gotta keep Gary Smith, the parking police officer happy!)

[bmfarley]

The news is almost 11 hours old as of 9:15am Monday morning, but, here's a burn area map as drawn up be the San Diego County GIS folks. of the Harris Fire near Tecate. T

his is a screen capture I grabbed from a ST Tribune link and uploaded to my photobucket account.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/1021072230HarrisFire.jpg

[bmfarley]

And the Witch Fire near/in Ramona as of Sunday Night at 10pm.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/1021072200WitchFire.jpg

[stockjock]

And the Witch Fire near/in Ramona as of Sunday Night at 10pm.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/1021072200WitchFire.jpg

Do you have a link to these maps?

[bmfarley]

^^^ Actually, the site I pulled them from was so slow, probably from being busy, that I did screen captures to save and upload and whatnot to provide here.

I uploaded a more recent image to the California forum and Wildfires thread.

[keg92101]

Here's the view down Island, after the Thomas Jefferson Law School is built...http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/keg92101/tjslarial.jpg

[Derek]

Me gusta. :yes:

[bushman61988]

Ooh...si si, me gusta MUCHO. I really like this tower, and it definitely adds some nice density to that area...yes, me likey!

[Derek]

That picture made me realize how skinny and compact those Fahrenheit units must be.

[mongoXZ]

Here's the view down Island, after the Thomas Jefferson Law School is built...http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/keg92101/tjslarial.jpg

it reminds me of the new tower built on 3rd Street in Chula Vista. Any info on when it'll start construction?

[bmfarley]

^^^^ Yes, that looks nice.

[keg92101]

That picture made me realize how skinny and compact those Fahrenheit units must be.

That's acutually where we live, and the North Side units (orange side) are 2 stories, each floor plate roughly 20x30 (1200 SF). You'd think they feel small, but high ceilings do wonders.

[Derek]

As I was watching the news earlier, somebody stated San Diego as being a "suburb of Los Angeles". Oh boy did I want to smack them upside the head so hard. :)

I have never actually even heard anything remotely close to the above statement. Have you guys ever heard that?

[bushman61988]

I believe this is the property where the 8-story "Echelon" condos were suppose to go.
I definitely like this project better...it's much taller, gives the area more offices, classrooms which diversifies the area and makes it much more mixed-use.
The architecture isn't that bad...it's okay...unique kind of. Definitely reminds me of that newer Chula Vista office building on 3rd Avenue like someone said earlier.
But the most important thing is it the density & height it adds to the area.

I just wish that they could build lots more actual TOWERS instead of all these dull mid-rises in the East Village, especially that particular part of East Village.


That's why we have the new 7th & Market tower at 470 feet:D
I just wish there were more, clearer pictures, b/c I think it got approved by the CCDC and it looks like it's one of those projects that's not affected by the housing slump right now.

[Derek]

BOARD RECEIVES PRELIMINARY DESIGN PRESENTATION FOR THE SEVENTH & MARKET MIXED-USE PROJECT (East Village)
The Board received a preliminary design presentation and provided staff and developer direction for the Related California Urban Housing, LLC’s and CityLink Investment Corporation’s mixed-use project, Seventh & Market. The current design includes a 42-story building with a 637-space public parking garage, 330 residential units (20 percent of which will be affordable), 19,500 square feet of retail space, a 183-room hotel, and 8,600 square feet of cultural use space.

(10/18/07)

[keg92101]

I believe this is the property where the 8-story "Echelon" condos were suppose to go.
I definitely like this project better...it's much taller, gives the area more offices, classrooms which diversifies the area and makes it much more mixed-use.
The architecture isn't that bad...it's okay...unique kind of. Definitely reminds me of that newer Chula Vista office building on 3rd Avenue like someone said earlier.
But the most important thing is it the density & height it adds to the area.

I just wish that they could build lots more actual TOWERS instead of all these dull mid-rises in the East Village, especially that particular part of East Village.


That's why we have the new 7th & Market tower at 470 feet:D
I just wish there were more, clearer pictures, b/c I think it got approved by the CCDC and it looks like it's one of those projects that's not affected by the housing slump right now.

The 7th & Market proposal is curently evolving, one good thing though, the African American History Cultural space is set to be a non token space. The planners say that it will be on par with San Francisco's MoAD (see below)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/keg92101/0316d_nc4moad_b.jpg

As for the towers, I think they will come with time, but, I'll pass on towers just to have towers. If we are going to have towers in our 'hood, I want them top notch design.

[bmfarley]

As I was watching the news earlier, somebody stated San Diego as being a "suburb of Los Angeles". Oh boy did I want to smack them upside the head so hard. :)

I have never actually even heard anything remotely close to the above statement. Have you guys ever heard that?
I've heard of the SD to LA region described as a megatropolis. Does that count?

[Derek]

No. Megatropolis is a good thing.

Think of Poway as a suburb of San Diego.

They were saying San Diego was a suburb of Los Angeles.

[CoastersBolts]

Megalopolis is another word that could be used to describe. The example of a Megalopolis would be the region which stretches from Washington, DC through Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and ending in southern New Hampshire. If I remember back to my Geography class in college, the San Diego, Orange County, LA/Ventura County area does not count because it is geographically "seperated" by Camp Pendleton.

[Derek]

sorry!

[OCtoSD]

Does anyone have any oppinion on the effect of the fires on the cost of construction and future development projects. With the residential market slowing down the cost of construction was going down and getting other commercial projects off the ground. Now that 1600 homes have to be built with urgency it seems that construction cost will shoot up. Even if its different types of projects the manual labor is still the same, or is it what costs a lot the specialty guys and equipment for high density? Any thoughts?

[bmfarley]

On a countywide scale, I don't think there's a sense of urgency to rebuild as there's adequate housing supply right now to house those affected.

If there's a sense of urgency... it would just be from those displaced. And, I think their rebuilding efforts will be spread out across 1-3 years depending on each of their motivations and financial ability. So, I think this event will have a nominal affect on the local building trade and the price to rebuild. Of course, contractors could take advantage of the situation and try and gouge consumers... taking into consideration that insurance agencies will likely cary the cost of a lot of rebuilding.

[bryson662001]

As I was watching the news earlier, somebody stated San Diego as being a "suburb of Los Angeles". Oh boy did I want to smack them upside the head so hard. :)

I have never actually even heard anything remotely close to the above statement. Have you guys ever heard that?

Only an idiot (not hard to find them in the news media) would ever say such a thing.

Megalopolis is another word that could be used to describe. The example of a Megalopolis would be the region which stretches from Washington, DC through Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and ending in southern New Hampshire. If I remember back to my Geography class in college, the San Diego, Orange County, LA/Ventura County area does not count because it is geographically "seperated" by Camp Pendleton.Actually there is quite a bit of rural land between Wilmington, DE and Baltimore.....at least as much as camp Pendleton.

[SDCAL]

The 7th & Market proposal is curently evolving, one good thing though, the African American History Cultural space is set to be a non token space. The planners say that it will be on par with San Francisco's MoAD (see below)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/keg92101/0316d_nc4moad_b.jpg

As for the towers, I think they will come with time, but, I'll pass on towers just to have towers. If we are going to have towers in our 'hood, I want them top notch design.

This is VERY nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am glad to see the African American space will actually be a large, nicely designed space instead of a pathetic "token" space. It is really important to celebrate the diversity of downtown and I really like that design - the big glass windows with the mosaic in the background will show very nicely from the street level. I am also happy to hear it will be on the same scale as SFs MoAD. I am tired of SD always being looked at as bland and small compared to SF and LA when in fact we do have alot of diversity and we are a large city in our own right.

Any renderings of the whole tower available? I am really excited to see this project get off the ground. It will be a fabulous addition in betweek Alta and the Mark, and if Cosmo Square can go up behind it we will start to see an East Village skyline taking shape ;)

[SDCAL]

This is VERY nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am glad to see the African American space will actually be a large, nicely designed space instead of a pathetic "token" space. It is really important to celebrate the diversity of downtown and I really like that design - the big glass windows with the mosaic in the background will show very nicely from the street level. I am also happy to hear it will be on the same scale as SFs MoAD. I am tired of SD always being looked at as bland and small compared to SF and LA when in fact we do have alot of diversity and we are a large city in our own right.

Any renderings of the whole tower available? I am really excited to see this project get off the ground. It will be a fabulous addition in betweek Alta and the Mark, and if Cosmo Square can go up behind it we will start to see an East Village skyline taking shape ;)

Oh nevermind - that rendering is of MoAD in SF. Well, I hope what they are planning in Sd looks just as nice. It looks like ccdc tried to post an updated rendering to the 7th and market project but I can't access it, it just shows up ans a red X

[SDCAL]

No. Megatropolis is a good thing.

Think of Poway as a suburb of San Diego.

They were saying San Diego was a suburb of Los Angeles.

People have, over the years, come up with various renditions of the urban sprawl extending down the west coast of the united states.

San Diego is never considered a suburb though, but one of the major cities that contributes to the sprawl.

SanSan (see wikipedia) is used to describe the sprawl down the coast of CA from SF to SD

San Angeles (also described in a wikipedia article) has been used in futuristic movies and books to describe one huge urban area that includes Los Angeles and San Diego

Then of course, we also have TJ to add to the mix. It's interesting to note that TJs geographic proximity to SD would make it part of our "urban metro area" if it were not in another country, raising our "metro" population from 3 to 5 million.

[SDCAL]

On a countywide scale, I don't think there's a sense of urgency to rebuild as there's adequate housing supply right now to house those affected.

If there's a sense of urgency... it would just be from those displaced. And, I think their rebuilding efforts will be spread out across 1-3 years depending on each of their motivations and financial ability. So, I think this event will have a nominal affect on the local building trade and the price to rebuild. Of course, contractors could take advantage of the situation and try and gouge consumers... taking into consideration that insurance agencies will likely cary the cost of a lot of rebuilding.

What I am wondering (and kind of hoping) is that the fires will further steer San Diego's future growth to density in the urban core as opposed to far-flung sprawl

[bmfarley]

What I am wondering (and kind of hoping) is that the fires will further steer San Diego's future growth to density in the urban core as opposed to far-flung sprawlWe can only hope... but I am in agreement.

I am not an expert on rural stuff... but it's my understanding now is that there is no County Fire Department. And, fighting fires is largely left to volunteer fire fighters. Of course, they probably get funding from the county... but county fire fighting is not fully funded as a full-time fire fighting crew.

So... I'd think that rural areas.. if they really want full-time fire fighting staff on hand... that they should fully fund that activity with a special assessment or something. The whole county should not have to bare that financial burden if they are the one choosing to live in gasoline. Right? Or, the county board of supervisors could/should create that assessemnt as a requirement before allowing peeps to rebuild, if legally possible.

The point... the greater the burden there is to build or rebuild in rural East County... the greater the desire or need there will be to densify the urban core... which is good from an urban effeciency point of view.

[sandiegodweller]

Does anyone have any oppinion on the effect of the fires on the cost of construction and future development projects. With the residential market slowing down the cost of construction was going down and getting other commercial projects off the ground. Now that 1600 homes have to be built with urgency it seems that construction cost will shoot up. Even if its different types of projects the manual labor is still the same, or is it what costs a lot the specialty guys and equipment for high density? Any thoughts?
1. Most people won't be getting any insurance checks to rebuild for several months. They will get checks to cover displacement which will help cover rent in a new place.
2. Building plans need to be approved. In the county, expect 2-3 months.
3. 2 years ago, SD was building 14,000 homes, this year maybe 9,000 permits will be issued. 1600 additional permits over a 2-3 year span will have zero effect on prices except for maybe the demo contractors who will have plenty of work for a while.

[BrandonJXN]

Just rename SoCal, San Andreas.

GROVE STREET!!!

[keg92101]

Oh nevermind - that rendering is of MoAD in SF. Well, I hope what they are planning in Sd looks just as nice. It looks like ccdc tried to post an updated rendering to the 7th and market project but I can't access it, it just shows up ans a red X

Its not a rendering but the actual MoAD. The lead planner for CCDC told me that they are requiring Related Cos (7th & Market) to provide a cultural space that is on-par with MoAD. In fact, the entire team took a trip to MoAD in order to understand what needed to be done!

[mongoXZ]

Satellite view of the Fires
http://signonsandiego.lamphost.net/albums/general/071024terra2.jpg

Some Interesting Vids

Time Lapse
Harris Fire 2007(near my hood in San Diego)
TD5kopoJb7w

Cedar Fire (from 2003)
rHtXqog_cSs

Smoky San Diego Skyline 2007
TLNtvcEods4

[Derek]

So how about them Chargers? :)

[HurricaneHugo]

They own.

Not good enough to go toe-to-toe with the Patriots/Colts, but we'll get there.

[Derek]

We will see about the Colts in a few weeks. ;)

[obendega]

Holly CRAP! A United A319 just flew by my window with flames shooting out of it's right engine. At first I thought a helicopter was flying by because of the puh-puh-puh sound.

Looks like it landed ok though. No smoke over Lindbergh. The next three planes were called off but the fourth landed so it must not have been too serious.

Freakin' scary.

[bmfarley]

Holly CRAP! A United A319 just flew by my window with flames shooting out of it's right engine. At first I thought a helicopter was flying buy because of the puh-puh-puh sound.

Looks like it landed ok though. No smoke over Lindbergh. The next three planes were called off but the fourth landed so it must not have been too serious.

Freakin' scary.
Seriously? 'Cause I could have sworn I heard a plane coming in that sounded lounder than normal within the past 20 minutes. Come to think of it... I see them come in and I don't hear any of them. I didn't think to look.

[druna974]

Here's the view down Island, after the Thomas Jefferson Law School is built...http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/keg92101/tjslarial.jpg

Where was this pic taken from?

[bmfarley]

^^^ Probably The Mark... which is on Market between 8th & 9th as I recall.

[obendega]

Seriously? 'Cause I could have sworn I heard a plane coming in that sounded lounder than normal within the past 20 minutes. Come to think of it... I see them come in and I don't hear any of them. I didn't think to look.

This definitely didn't sound like a plane. It really sounded like an extremely loud military chopper. Still haven't found anything on the news about it.

[Derek]

Where was this pic taken from?



That entire area is actually filling in quite nicely.

[vanhattan]

Satellite view of the Fires
http://signonsandiego.lamphost.net/albums/general/071024terra2.jpg

Some Interesting Vids

Time Lapse
Harris Fire 2007(near my hood in San Diego)
TD5kopoJb7w

Cedar Fire (from 2003)
rHtXqog_cSs

Smoky San Diego Skyline 2007
TLNtvcEods4

Way cool videos!! :banana: Thanks!

[ShekelPop]

Hey guys, there's some good new stuff on CCDC's interactive map, the update was Monday (today/yesterday depending on when you're reading this), if anyone wants to begin a new homework assignment and upload some of the new photos, I'm sure we'll be grateful, I'm merely passing the buck due to time constraints.

[mello]

I love satellite photos!! Look at that weird greenish color of the Sea of Cortez around San Felipe??? Creepy:sly:

[HurricaneHugo]

what are they going to do to 225 Broadway (the NBC building)?

I saw a sign saying it's going to be remodeled?

[Derek]

As long as it looks better than it does now, then I'm happy.

[Trvlr]

Hi everyone.

Frequent reader, infrequent poster, but bucking the trend with an interesting article from San Diego Metropolitan's Daily Business Report about retail absorption in downtown S.D. Long story short, retail expansion is slowing temporarily due to the slowing housing market, but long-term outlook is positive with lots of new hotel rooms on the horizon and a steady backlog of condo projects.

---

The completion of 425,000 square feet of new commercial retail space over the past 12 months -- along with the postponement of several planned mixed-use redevelopment projects -- have contributed to Downtown’s first negative retail absorption since at least 2001, reports Burnham Urban Retail Group. That was the year Burnham first started studying the Downtown commercial market.

The Burnham report shows that as of Aug. 31, the Downtown retail market had -88,472 square feet of net absorption. This compares to the same time a year ago when net absorption was 39,428 square feet.

"Available retail inventory in downtown San Diego has increased due to the near simultaneous completion of over 400,000 square feet new space," says Bill Shrader, senior v.p. and principal with Burnham Urban Retail Group. "Additionally, the pause in the construction of several condominium projects has returned some existing retail space to the market, which is adding to the vacancy rate."

Shrader noted that it is because retailers in general see tremendous long-term opportunity Downtown that many are putting off their decision to operate Downtown until new or planned projects are complete. "Retailers recognize that San Diego is successfully transforming into a thriving 24/7 urban center. More importantly, they recognize that the slowdown in new residential construction is temporary and they want to be ready to move quickly once development resumes," he says.

Adding to the stability of the Downtown retail market is the nearly 2,500 new hotel rooms that are being added to the market over the next 24 months. Hotels under construction include the soon-to-be completed 420-room Hard Rock Hotel in Gaslamp Quarter, 1,200-room Hilton Convention Center Hotel, and a 239-room Residence Inn. The 210-room Hotel Indigo will break ground in the Ballpark District within the next three months and will be followed by a 344-room Marriott Renaissance Hotel in Gaslamp in 2008. Additionally, Marriott has announced plans for an additional 1,650-room hotel just east of Petco Park.

"In essence, Downtown’s next wave of construction is new hotel development to serve San Diego’s growing tourism and convention industry," says Corinna Gattasso, v.p. and co-founder of Burnham Urban Retail Group. "Retailers recognize the sales potential from the increased spending money visitors bring with them."

Retailers also will continue to benefit from renewed office development Downtown. Cisterra’s DiamondView Tower is 90 percent leased, and American Equities Plaza (developed by Lankford) is 85 percent leased. On the horizon is a 685,000-square-foot office tower planned by The Irvine Co. that will break ground soon at Broadway and Kettner."The residential, hotel and office growth Downtown has created the right mix of use and the synergy to support a thriving retail environment," says Gattasso.

Planned and under construction retail space currently totals 575,291 square feet, 75 percent of which is a multi-level power center planned for development on the former Unocal site adjacent to Petco Park. This compares to 2005 when there were 1,129,341 square feet of new space planned or under construction, 64 percent of which was located in the East Village area near Petco Park.

"The market will steadily absorb the current supply of available space, particularly with the temporary slowdown in new construction," says Shrader.

The Burnham study says there are 5,005,561 square feet of retail inventory in Downtown. This is up from total inventory of 4,575,607 in 2006, an increase that is due in part to 200,000 square feet of new space that came on line in the East Village/Ballpark District alone.

Currently, 397,212 square feet of Downtown retail space is unoccupied, for a 7.9 percent vacancy rate. This is up from the same time in 2006, when vacancy was 6.6 percent. Net absorption in 2006 totaled 39,428 square feet, the Burnham report shows.

Gattasso says Downtown continues to attract quality retail tenants, especially restaurants who are eager to capitalize on the thousands of new residents and workers in the central district areas. These include Bice Restaurant, which will be opening in Gaslamp Square at the corner of Fourth and Island in the second quarter of 2008. "Bice is returning to Downtown 10 years after it opened in the ill-fated Paladian project in the early ’90s," Shrader says. "The market has grown tremendously and Bice is very excited to be part of the Downtown market, which has an outstanding long-term outlook."

Additionally, Donovan’s Steakhouse -- which has been looking for a Downtown location for several years -- will be opening in the former Trophy’s location at Sixth Avenue and K Street.

The Burnham study shows that East Village/Ballpark District accounted for most of the year-to-date negative absorption with -76,515 square feet. Little Italy was next, with -15,782 square feet, followed by Cortez Hill, with -14,550 square feet. The highest positive absorption reported Downtown occurred in the Columbia district, with 9,287 square feet. It was followed by the Marina District with 8,550 square feet and the Gaslamp, with 5,919 square feet.

Cortez Hill reports 20.4 percent retail vacancy, followed by East Village at 18.1 percent, and the central core at 10 percent. The lowest retail vacancy rates are reported by Horton, with just 1.8 percent vacancy, the Marina District with 3.2 percent vacancy, and the Gaslamp with 3.4 percent vacancy.

"2008 will be a year to absorb space, particularly the new inventory in the Ballpark District," Shrader says. "We fully expect the vacancy factor to go down significantly over the next year as existing space leases up and nowhere near as much new space is delivered. Long term, this bodes well for retailers and investors alike."

[Derek]

Thanks for posting Trvlr!


Now when is Fuddrucker's supposed to open on the corner of Fifth and Broadway?

[Derek]

Additionally, Marriott has announced plans for an additional 1,650-room hotel just east of Petco Park.

Do you guys think that will actually get off the ground? I saw a rendering for it inside of a window along Third Avenue and Ash I think. I'll try to get a picture of it the next time I go by there.

It looks good though.

[mello]

I really am praying that the huge Marriott gets off the ground. It will bring some much needed height to that part of downtown and won't make the Hilton across Harbor look so lonely. I think that Hilton will look crappy just sitting out there by itself all WIDE and bulky like an a short stout elephant :jester:

So I think it will also bring lots of much needed activity to that corner of the Ballpark District/East Village.

I say please move ahead with this quickly :cheers:

[HurricaneHugo]

Hey guys, there's some good new stuff on CCDC's interactive map, the update was Monday (today/yesterday depending on when you're reading this), if anyone wants to begin a new homework assignment and upload some of the new photos, I'm sure we'll be grateful, I'm merely passing the buck due to time constraints.

I browsed through it and clicked on every "new" project, nothing i haven't seen before.

[bmfarley]

I browsed through it and clicked on every "new" project, nothing i haven't seen before.
ditto

Wha a tease!

[ShekelPop]

ditto

Wha a tease!

the jd wong hotel on ash? am i behind? well, just kidding then.

[Derek]

I haven't heard of JD Wong.

Anybody know what site is being cleared on the block to the direct east of The Mark?

[bmfarley]

I haven't heard of JD Wong.

Anybody know what site is being cleared on the block to the direct east of The Mark?Strata

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Strata_Final.jpg

Btw, I noticed that the Marriott Renaissance Hotel that so many here have been clamoring about wishing to start... begand digging recently. I suspect they began within the past 2 weeks.

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/ACF8C.jpg

[Derek]

Oh that's where Strata is supposed to be? I thought it was a few streets south. Thank you. :)

[keg92101]

Oh that's where Strata is supposed to be? I thought it was a few streets south. Thank you. :)

Intracorp sold it's interest in the project to Hanover Co. From what I understand, the project is going to be very similar in design, however, Hanover is changing the floorplates into mostly 2 and 3 bedrooms. Very agressive rents: $3-$4 per SF. A 1,000 SF 2 bedroom for $3,000 - $4,000 per MONTH. Great news if you own a unit and want to rent it out down the road.

[druna974]

Just got a CCDC mailer mentioning a hearing for changes to Cosmo Square. Same height, same architecture, though most of the tower will now be a hotel, with some Condos...anyone know the timeline?

[sandiegodweller]

Just got a CCDC mailer mentioning a hearing for changes to Cosmo Square. Same height, same architecture, though most of the tower will now be a hotel, with some Condos...anyone know the timeline?
Since the owners just avoided losing the property to foreclosure and there is very little money available for hotels and even less for highrise condos, I would expect it to happen sometime in 2012.

[HurricaneHugo]

as long as we get it eventually

[Derek]

2012 seems a bit long.

[mello]

The Marriott that has begun digging is not the one that fronts 5th where the Arab cigar guy used to be. It is across the street from that one.

Why in the hell are there going to be 2 Marriott's right across the street from eachother.

The lot across from Gaslamp Square is still a parking lot I was just there, 2 hours ago. What the hell???

[bmfarley]

The Marriott that has begun digging is not the one that fronts 5th where the Arab cigar guy used to be. It is across the street from that one.

Why in the hell are there going to be 2 Marriott's right across the street from eachother.

The lot across from Gaslamp Square is still a parking lot I was just there, 2 hours ago. What the hell???
There's some mis-communication. The name of the project certainly is not helping things; both have Marriot in their titles. The project descriptions also do not help. One is described as being on the north side of the block... while the other says it's on the north side of a street. Who writes those descriptions? There should be a standard way to describe location... oriented to either the street or the block. Also, both have the same archectural team! What?

This is the real image I should have provided:

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/GQResidenceINn.jpg

And description: Block bounded by Fith and Sixth avenues, J and K streets

J 5th LLC is planning a hotel project for the northern half of the block bounded by Fifth and Sixth avenues, J and K streets. The 12-story extended-stay hotel would include 239 rooms, 8,000 square feet of retail space and 148 subterranean valet parking spaces. The hotel will be built around the historic 1900 Brunswig Drug Company building with all current uses/tenants unchanged. The project is expected to begin construction in summer 2007 with an early 2009 completion targeted.

The other one across the street... has not started. It's pic and description are:

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/ACF8C.jpg

HHGaslamp, LLC is planning a 12-story, 369-room full-service hotel with a 6,400 square-foot ballroom, 7,500 square foot spa facility, 4,900 square feet of meeting space, 5,800 square feet of pre-function space, 7,000 square feet of retail space and underground parking to accommodate approximately 255 vehicles, for the north side of J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues. Construction is expected to begin in summer 2008 with a summer 2010 completion targeted.

[Derek]

One is an Extended-Stay and one is a Courtyard, I think.

[sandiegodweller]

One is an Extended-Stay and one is a Courtyard, I think.
The project that has NOT started yet (on the site of the cigar shop) is going to be a Marriott Renaissance Hotel.

The project currently under construction is going to be another Marriott brand.

[SDPhil]

Does anyone know if they have finally gotten the okay on the federal courthouse?The parking lot next to the jail is fenced off and there was some activity on the site this morning.

[SDCAL]

http://nolensd.com/back01.jpg

The Nolan looks like a nice use of space - - 13 floor office structure going into the narrow space of land between ballpark self-storage and a hotel building :)

This is from their website nlansd.com

[mongoXZ]

existing Marriotts:

Marriott Marina
Marriott Courtyard (on 6th)
Marriott Gaslamp

planned or u/c:

Marriott Extended Stay
Marriott Renaissance
Marriott BallPark Village
JD Marriott Lane Field
Marriott/Nickelodeon Resort

that's 8 total Marriotts in the area!

I'm wondering if Marriott saturating the market will hurt SD's chances in getting an InterContinental, Mandarin Oriental, Rits Carlton or Four Seasons in downtown SD.

[SDCAL]

existing Marriotts:

Marriott Marina
Marriott Courtyard (on 6th)
Marriott Gaslamp

planned or u/c:

Marriott Extended Stay
Marriott Renaissance
Marriott BallPark Village
JD Marriott Lane Field
Marriott/Nickelodeon Resort

that's 8 total Marriotts in the area!

I'm wondering if Marriott saturating the market will hurt SD's chances in getting an InterContinental, Mandarin Oriental, Rits Carlton or Four Seasons in downtown SD.


Regarding Lane Field - - do you mean "JW" Marriott? If so, this is very exciting indeed! I have stayed at JW Marriott's across Asia and they are not like other Marriotts - - much higher-end, with a resort-type feel, I really like the existing ones

Where did you hear the proposed hotel brand for Lane Field??????

As far as all these Mariott's hurting the chances of a Ritz, Four Seasons, Mandarin-Oriental and the like, really the only Marriott close to that level are the JW Marriotts, the others can't come close. Having a JW at Lane Field could potentially crowd the marked for one of the super-luxury chains, but they would have to market themselves differently. Even though I love JW Marriotts and they are very luxurious, they are still not quite to the ultra-luxe level of a Ritz or a Mandarin Oriental.

[SDCAL]

Since the owners just avoided losing the property to foreclosure and there is very little money available for hotels and even less for highrise condos, I would expect it to happen sometime in 2012.

When you say "very little money available for hotels" are you talking profit-potential? Everything I have been able to research points to a high profit potential for hotels downtown right now. Of course, developers will likely pounce on the opportunity and saturate the market with hotels to the point where there are too many, but by that time hopefully the residential condo lull will be on the up-swing :) I gues that is how the market works

I do think that 2008 will be a good year for hotel development starting and a "fill-in" year for condos, where the market quiets and vacant condos begin to fill

I also believe that more places to rent - be they affordable housing, mid-level, or high-end rentals are very profitable right now. Strata seems to be trying an interesting tactic by building a large luxury RENTAL tower, I actually think they are tapping into something that is needed. I have a friend from work who just transferred here and I went looking for rentals with them and the market is VERY tight right now. Many more people looking to rent as opposed to buying at the moment.

Alot of companies have colleagues who come to town for secondments, staying 6 months or a year or a couple of years. They are not looking to buy since they know they will not be here permanently. Currently, there are places to appease this need in the UTC and Sorrento area, but not alot downtown. Alot of these business people on secondment are younger, single people moving from large East Coast metros like Boston, NY, etc, and they really would prefer living DT as opposed to UTC even if that means having to commute. I know people in this situation and they say they would lease a car and commute because they are so miserable living in UTC where there's nothing to do. They also (since the company pays the rent) would be looking to rent higher-end. I think Strata is on to something

I really think in the long-run the housing slump will HELP downtown, because it is forcing us to diversify. DT really needs a combination of rentals, condos, hotels, businesses (office), businesses (retail) and affordable and mid-level housing to go along with the high-end. Unfortunately, the one area that will STILL be lacking, as is always the case here in SD, is INFRASTRUCTURE and CIVIC space. That will be the real determination of how far DT SD will go, not the housing market. So far, I would give our city a "D" when it comes to infrastructure and civic development downtown :(

[Derek]

Speaking of high-end hotels, does the San Diegan have a carrier yet?

[sandiegodweller]

The project that has NOT started yet (on the site of the cigar shop) is going to be a Marriott Renaissance Hotel.

The project currently under construction is going to be another Marriott brand.

I drove by the site yesterday. The hotel under construction is a Marriott Residence Inn.

[sandiegodweller]

When you say "very little money available for hotels" are you talking profit-potential? Everything I have been able to research points to a high profit potential for hotels downtown right now. Of course, developers will likely pounce on the opportunity and saturate the market with hotels to the point where there are too many, but by that time hopefully the residential condo lull will be on the up-swing :) I gues that is how the market works

I do think that 2008 will be a good year for hotel development starting and a "fill-in" year for condos, where the market quiets and vacant condos begin to fill

I also believe that more places to rent - be they affordable housing, mid-level, or high-end rentals are very profitable right now. Strata seems to be trying an interesting tactic by building a large luxury RENTAL tower, I actually think they are tapping into something that is needed. I have a friend from work who just transferred here and I went looking for rentals with them and the market is VERY tight right now. Many more people looking to rent as opposed to buying at the moment.

Alot of companies have colleagues who come to town for secondments, staying 6 months or a year or a couple of years. They are not looking to buy since they know they will not be here permanently. Currently, there are places to appease this need in the UTC and Sorrento area, but not alot downtown. Alot of these business people on secondment are younger, single people moving from large East Coast metros like Boston, NY, etc, and they really would prefer living DT as opposed to UTC even if that means having to commute. I know people in this situation and they say they would lease a car and commute because they are so miserable living in UTC where there's nothing to do. They also (since the company pays the rent) would be looking to rent higher-end. I think Strata is on to something

I really think in the long-run the housing slump will HELP downtown, because it is forcing us to diversify. DT really needs a combination of rentals, condos, hotels, businesses (office), businesses (retail) and affordable and mid-level housing to go along with the high-end. Unfortunately, the one area that will STILL be lacking, as is always the case here in SD, is INFRASTRUCTURE and CIVIC space. That will be the real determination of how far DT SD will go, not the housing market. So far, I would give our city a "D" when it comes to infrastructure and civic development downtown :(
Money to develop new hotels in San Diego (and around the country) is tight right now.

If all of the proposed hotels get built in the next 5 years, it is conceivable that the area will have too many hotel rooms.

Room rates don't justify the cost of new construction.

[sandiegodweller]

The project that has NOT started yet (on the site of the cigar shop) is going to be a Marriott Renaissance Hotel.

The project currently under construction is going to be another Marriott brand.

I drove by the site yesterday. The hotel under construction is a Marriott Residence Inn.