Transit train comparison.

[ssiguy]

In the Western Canadian section a brilliant guy managed to well compare the sizes of SkyTrain and RAV cars. Anyone know of a graph they could put up to compare all transit cars in Canada and number of these cars in a complete train.
Lets use TTC subway/Montreal Metro/Calgary CTrain/Edmon LRT/ Van SkyTrain/ Ott O-Train.

Eg Vancouver MK1 cars are 4 car trains so...........***-***-***-*** compared to another system car length and number of cars on an average train.
I find sometime its hard to visualize the lenght of trains and size of cars.

A TTC subway 4 car train is bigger than a 4 car Montreal Metro which is bigger than a 4 car MK1 Vancouver SkyTrain.

[malek]

Montreal metro is 9 cars
Montreal-Deux Montagne commuter train is 10 cars

[The Chemist]

Standard C-Train length is 3 cars.

Overall length of a 3-car U2A consist: 73.2 metres
Overall length of a 3-car SD160 consist: 74.4 metres

[mr.x]

Here is that brilliant guys (me!) idea:


| = one metre
( ) = head/tail of train
- = train gangway/link

Vancouver Canada Line (2-car): 41 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver Canada Line (3-car): 51 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark II (4-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark I (6-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)

[WhipperSnapper]

guess from my own experience

Vancouver

***-***-***-***

Toronto

******-******-******-******-******-******

[mr.x]

Standard C-Train length is 3 cars.

Overall length of a 3-car U2A consist: 73.2 metres
Overall length of a 3-car SD160 consist: 74.4 metres

Can you give me the lengths of each of the 3 cars?



Montreal metro is 9 cars
Montreal-Deux Montagne commuter train is 10 cars

Can you give me the lengths of each of the 9 metro cars?

[The Chemist]

Can you give me the lengths of each of the 3 cars?


Each U2A is 24.4 metres long. Each SD160 is 24.8 metres long.

[mr.x]

| = one metre
( ) = head/tail of train
- = train gangway/link

Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (2-car): 41 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (3-car): 51 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark II (4-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark I (6-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train U2A (3-car): 73.2 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train SD160 (3-car): 74.4 metres
(|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||)

[malek]

Can you give me the lengths of each of the 9 metro cars?

a 9 cars train is exactly 152.4 meters long.

[Coldrsx]

anyone know edmonton's lrt stats on this?

[mr.x]

| = one metre
( ) = head/tail of train
- = train gangway/link

Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (2-car): 41 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (3-car): 51 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark II (4-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark I (6-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train U2A (3-car): 73.2 metres
(||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train SD160 (3-car): 74.4 metres
(|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||)
Montreal Metro (9-car): 152.4 metres
(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||)

[malek]

I have to find Bombardier MR90 specifications, but I believe its much longer than the Montreal metro

[mr.x]

I have to find Bombardier MR90 specifications, but I believe its much longer than the Montreal metro

only rapid transit rail trains here......commuter trains are obviously quite long, no need for comparison.

[malek]

it says transit train, sorry for being misled:rolleyes:

[Riise]

anyone know edmonton's lrt stats on this?

I believe you guys run 3-car U2A's, so it would be the same as the CTrain stats (73.2m). I've also been lead to believe that you guys are yet to receive your order of SD-160's which will similar to the ones in Calgary except for a more aerodynamic look.

[SpongeG]

8llllllD------

hehe

[Wooster]

I look forward to the days of 4 car trains in Calgary. Seems much more major city to me.

[ssiguy]

Makes you realize what a tonka toy SkyTrain is when currently all trains are just 4 car MK1 trains.............about a third the length of Montreal Metro trains.

[WhipperSnapper]

Toronto's T1/H5/H6s are 22.8m or 136.8m long per train

AFAIK, no one comes close to the 3.1m width (Montreal is 2.5m) which your chart doesn't take into account

[BlackRedGold]

AFAIK, no one comes close to the 3.1m width (Montreal is 2.5m) which your chart doesn't take into account

Ottawa's O-Train is 2.9m wide which is pretty close. It is also 48 metres long.

[someone123]

Toronto's T1/H5/H6s are 22.8m or 136.8m long per train

AFAIK, no one comes close to the 3.1m width (Montreal is 2.5m) which your chart doesn't take into account

heh

[mersar]

What about the passenger capacities? I've added a few below that I know, as well as a preview of what the C-Train will be like in 10 or so years with 4 car. Edmonton currently runs 3 car consists, but I do believe all their stations are built to handle 5 car consists if they need them.

Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (2-car): 41 metres - 334 Passenger
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (3-car): 51 metres - ~400 Passenger
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark II (4-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark I (6-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train U2A (3-car) / Edmonton Transit U2A: 73.2 metres - 600 Passenger
(||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train SD160 (3-car): 74.4 metres - 600 Passenger
(|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train SD160 (4-car [future]): 97.6 metres - 800 Passenger
(|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train U2A (4-car [future]): 99.28 metres - 800 Passenger
(||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||)
Montreal Metro (9-car): 152.4 metres
(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||)

[Mikemike]

Edmonton also runs 4-car u2 trains. 1/3 to 1/2 of rush hour trains are 4-car. The constraint on our system is no longer demand, but the vehicle fleet.

ETS is considering another order of about a dozen SD-160's in addition to the 28 that will come to service the extention.

I'm not sure how often they run, (after football games?) but 5 car trains fit on the platforms here.

I expect 4 car will be the standard here within 5 years.

[ssiguy]

When will Calgary start running 4 car trains?

[ssiguy]

Amazing, right now SkyTrain trains are only a incredibly puny 36 meters..........less than 2 articulated buses.

I know Vancouver will be running 6 MK1/ 2 MK11 cars within 3 years but I understood that due to where the doors are situated there is enough room in hangover to accomodate 3 MK11 cars?

I also understand that stations were all designed to be expanded to have 8 MK11 cars fairly easily.........is that true?

[mersar]

When will Calgary start running 4 car trains?

Not any time soon. Currently only 3 or 4 of the 25 stations are long enough (Dalhousie, 1st St, Somerset and the almost complete McKnight/Westwinds once it opens this summer), Crowfoot will be built for 4 car as well, as well as all downtown platforms will be expanded as they are renovated starting with 11st W (which replaces the older 10st W platform). Likely we're looking 2020 before full system is 4 LRV consists, possibly sooner if they get a influx of funding.

[Wooster]

When will Calgary start running 4 car trains?

Not soon enough.

All new stations are 4 car capacity. There are a bunch that are scheduled to be converted. My guess is probably 10 years from now.

[The Chemist]

Why isn't Calgary getting the same swoopy bodywork on their SD160s that Edmonton is getting on theirs? The Edmonton ones look a lot better than our boxy ones.

[Mikemike]

Do any of you calgarians know if it would be possible to add dummy SD160's (without cabs)? You'd think they could be a little cheaper and have a little more room (maybe 16 standees?) than normal units.

[Mikemike]

Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (2-car): 41 metres - 334 Passenger
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (3-car): 51 metres - ~400 Passenger
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark II (4-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)
Vancouver SkyTrain Mark I (6-car): 72 metres
(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)
Calgary C-Train U2A, SD-160 / Edmonton Transit U2A (3-car) : 73.2 metres - 600 Passenger
(|||||||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||||||)-(|||||||||||||||||||||||)

Edmonton LRT U2A / [Future]Calgary C-Train SD160/U2A (4 car): 97.6 metres - 800 Passenger
(|||||||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||||||||)-(|||||||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||||||||)

Montreal Metro (9-car): 152.4 metres
(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||)-(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||)-(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||)

I edied to show Montreal as permanent 3-car consists and the cabs on Edmonton/Calgary vehicles

[alps]

Subway > All other types of transit: :D

Bus:
(||||||||||||)

Articulated bus:
(||||||||||||||||||)

Ferry (Halifax-Dartmouth):
(||||||||||||||||||||||||||)

Montreal Metro:
(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||)

[mersar]

Do any of you calgarians know if it would be possible to add dummy SD160's (without cabs)? You'd think they could be a little cheaper and have a little more room (maybe 16 standees?) than normal units.

It would likely be technically possible, but I doubt that anyone would want to foot the bill to redesign it specifically. Especially for the little gain there would be spacewise, all the controls, etc, would still be somewhat present as each LRV has its own controller unit and I can't think of any easy way to remove it and move hte functionality to the end LRV's without needing to either redesign all the existing ones, or redesign all future ones as well. Costwise I doubt it would be even worth looking at.

Why isn't Calgary getting the same swoopy bodywork on their SD160s that Edmonton is getting on theirs? The Edmonton ones look a lot better than our boxy ones.

Are they actually getting them? I've seen the proposed image a while back, but never heard if thats what the order actually was for. I agree that it would be nice to see something less boxy, but I imagine that the cost is probably also a bit more.

[jeffwhit]

Why isn't Calgary getting the same swoopy bodywork on their SD160s that Edmonton is getting on theirs? The Edmonton ones look a lot better than our boxy ones.

Anyone got any pics of this? I've heard nothing about it, sounds cool.

[Distill3d]

When will Calgary start running 4 car trains?

sometime in between now and when hell freezes over :haha:

[big W]

Edmonton also runs 4-car u2 trains. 1/3 to 1/2 of rush hour trains are 4-car. The constraint on our system is no longer demand, but the vehicle fleet.

ETS is considering another order of about a dozen SD-160's in addition to the 28 that will come to service the extention.

I'm not sure how often they run, (after football games?) but 5 car trains fit on the platforms here.

I expect 4 car will be the standard here within 5 years.

I have only seen the 5 cars running after events at Commonwealth, but all the stations are built to handle 5 cars. Also you are right in that the cars typically run 4 cars during rush hour as that is what I see all the time. I don't recall the last time I saw 3, but then again I only catch it going to and from work or to events at Rexall where they run 4 or Commonwealth where they run 5.

[Canadian Mind]

Amazing, right now SkyTrain trains are only a incredibly puny 36 meters..........less than 2 articulated buses.

I know Vancouver will be running 6 MK1/ 2 MK11 cars within 3 years but I understood that due to where the doors are situated there is enough room in hangover to accomodate 3 MK11 cars?

I also understand that stations were all designed to be expanded to have 8 MK11 cars fairly easily.........is that true?


no. 8 MKII cars would be insanely long at 144M, approaching the length of them Montreal trains... although I like the though.

to bad we don't have ane C cars for our MKII trains.

[The Chemist]

Do any of you calgarians know if it would be possible to add dummy SD160's (without cabs)? You'd think they could be a little cheaper and have a little more room (maybe 16 standees?) than normal units.

I doubt Siemens would make them. LRVs are designed to be standalone units (i.e. operate as a single vehicle) - they are not metro trains which are sold in complete units with cabs at each end of the whole train.

[mr.x]

Amazing, right now SkyTrain trains are only a incredibly puny 36 meters..........less than 2 articulated buses.

I know Vancouver will be running 6 MK1/ 2 MK11 cars within 3 years but I understood that due to where the doors are situated there is enough room in hangover to accomodate 3 MK11 cars?

I also understand that stations were all designed to be expanded to have 8 MK11 cars fairly easily.........is that true?

No. Currently, Translink runs 4-car Mark I trains and 2 or 4-car Mark II trains. When the arrival of 34 Mark II cars arrive in 2009, Translink will run 6-car Mark I trains and 4-car Mark II trains.

SkyTrain platforms are designed to be expanded to 8 Mark I cars. Currently, platforms can handle 6 Mark I cars.

[officedweller]

I think they'd buy more MKII cars before going to lengthening platforms. The only serious bottleneck in Vancouver is at Broadway & Commercial and that would hopefully ease when the M-Line is extended westwards. The existing Skytrain platforms can fit a 5-car MKII train (A+B-A+C+B).

I've added info to the diagram:

Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (2-car): 41 metres x 3.0 metres - 334 Passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)

Vancouver Canada Line Rotem LRV (3-car [future]): 51 metres x 3.0 metres - ~400 Passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)

Vancouver SkyTrain Mark II (2-car): 34.7 metres x 2.65 metres - 260 Passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

Vancouver SkyTrain Mark II (4-car): 69.4 (2x34.7) metres x 2.65 metres - 2 x 260 = 520 Passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

Vancouver SkyTrain Mark I (4-car): 50.8 (4x12.7) metres x 2.4 metres - 4 x 75 = 300 Passengers [4 x 110 crush load = 440 Passengers]
(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)

Vancouver SkyTrain Mark I (6-car): 76.2 (6x12.7) metres x 2.4 metres - 6 x 75 = 450 Passengers [6 x 110 crush load = 660 Passengers]
(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)-(||||||||||||)

Calgary C-Train U2A (3-car) / Edmonton Transit U2A: 73.2 metres - 600 Passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||)

Calgary C-Train SD160 (3-car): 74.4 metres - 600 Passengers
(|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||)

Calgary C-Train SD160 (4-car [future]): 97.6 metres - 800 Passengers
(|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||||||||||)

Calgary C-Train U2A (4-car [future]): 99.28 metres - 800 Passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||||||)

Montreal Metro (9-car): 152.4 metres x 2.5 metres
(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||)-(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||)-(|||||||||||||||||-|||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||)

[ssiguy]

I fucked up, I meant to say that the current stations were to be designed to have them extended to carry 8 MK1 cars not MK2.

BTW...............what is a C car of MK2?
Also 8 MK2 cars would still be shorter than a Montreal Metro and much shorter than TTC subwat trains.
Vancouverites have just gotten use to tiny trains. Thank goodness the frequency is very high.

[mr.x]

I fucked up, I meant to say that the current stations were to be designed to have them extended to carry 8 MK1 cars not MK2.

BTW...............what is a C car of MK2?
Also 8 MK2 cars would still be shorter than a Montreal Metro and much shorter than TTC subwat trains.
Vancouverites have just gotten use to tiny trains. Thank goodness the frequency is very high.

I agree....i'm used to short trains as well, but I wouldn't be used to unfrequent frequencies.

I believe the C car of the Mark II is 10 metres long and is in between of the existing A + B two-car trains we have:

e.g. A+C+C+C+B

(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)


The ART system in Kuala Lumpur has recently ordered a bunch of these C car trains.

[officedweller]

Here's the KL pic from the Bombardier website:

http://www.bombardier.com/en/1_0/ml/5615/2_KLext-LR.jpg

BTW - if you go to the Bombardier site and click on Transportation, then Success Stories - it describes a new linear induction bogie for lines 4 and 5 of Guangzhou's metro.

http://www.bombardier.com/

[Nouvellecosse]

When's someone going to add Toronto to the diagram?

Eventually, I'd also like to see a few notable world systems compared.

[ssiguy]

Thanks for the info officedweller.

Any idea if Translink will be getting any? Thank god SkyTrain's frequency is so fantastic or people would never get a seat.

BTW, what is the frequency of CTrain and Edmonton LRTduring th day and rush hour?

[Riise]

BTW, what is the frequency of CTrain and Edmonton LRTduring th day and rush hour?

I haven't a clue what it is in Edmonton but the CTrains run every ten minutes during the midday, fifteen during all other non-peak hours & weekends/holidays, and they average a five minute frequency during peak-hours, although that is getting bumped up to three.

[mersar]

And 30 mins late night (if not more, they tend to not always be on time especially at the very end of service). I learnt that the hard way, had a very long, somewhat cold, wait at Franklin last week at midnight, train was something like 35 minutes apart (as I got to the station just as the train pulled out).

[adeep88]

In Edmonton, the LRT/Subway runs 6 minutes on peak times, 10 minutes. After 5:30, I think it's every 15 mins.

[ssiguy]

Wow, that's not the greatest.
I especially thought CTrain would have higher off peak and late night service.

[mersar]

It's not really warranted, especially late at night. One thing that would be welcome would be to have trains running all night, not stopping at 1-2am then starting again around 5:30 or whenever depending on the leg.

That one night I was on it for the last run, from Franklin to downtown there were 4 people on the train. Going to the NW we got stuck with about a car full, mostly high school kids who had fake ID's and got into one of the bars. Normally though its fairly empty on the late night runs, anything past about 10pm or so. 15 minutes during off-peak isn't too bad, considering offpeak in the evenings doesn't start till about 7pm. And midday its 10 minutes usually.

[Boris2k7]

The long times later at night arent much of a problem, but I wish they would step up the frequencies between peak times, and also during weekends. How can you possibly attract weekend riders when the system isn't desirable enough?

[big W]

In Edmonton, the LRT/Subway runs 6 minutes on peak times, 10 minutes. After 5:30, I think it's every 15 mins.

Not any more, I seem to recall every 3 mins now during rush hour then dropping to 5 mins during the day. 10 mins during late evenings adn late night its 15 mins.

[Sean.Perrin]

Is calgary still...

15 mins before 630a
5 mins during rush (630a to 930a)
10 mins until 3pm
5 mins 3 to 6
10 mins until 11pm
15 mins (ya right) until 130 am

Weekeds 15 mins

If so then the system rarely adheres to these timins... after 10pm it is not unlikely that you will wait 25 mins for a train.

[Mock]

Not any more, I seem to recall every 3 mins now during rush hour then dropping to 5 mins during the day. 10 mins during late evenings adn late night its 15 mins.

Nah, still 5-6 minutes during peak, 10 minutes off peak, then 15 late at night.

http://www.edmonton.ca/transit/route_schedules_and_maps/current/RT201.pdf

That scan is a bit old (revised Apr 30, 2006), but the current up-to-date schedules on the site are the same.