WPG to become an NHL city again?

[Shodan]

MTS Centre boost to NHL hopes: Doer

By ROCHELLE SQUIRES, LEGISLATURE REPORTER

Winnipeg Sun - Jan.27 2007

Winnipeg is better poised to become an NHL city again because of the new MTS Centre, says Premier Gary Doer.

"We have now a new entertainment complex, which has the luxury box seats and has proven to be an economic success in Winnipeg," Doer said yesterday. "It's now producing a number of events besides hockey and that is important."

Doer was responding to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman's assertion that Winnipeg could now likely support an NHL team.

"I believe, in an ideal world under the partnership we have with the players and the salary cap, that Winnipeg probably could support an NHL team," Bettman told Hockey Night in Canada host Ron MacLean on Wednesday.

Doer said there are a number of teams in the southern U.S. that are in trouble, and Winnipeg could offer the solution.

"We have two things going for us now. One, which we've always had, is hockey fans. And we have the new entertainment complex," said Doer.

A sly grin crossed Doer's face when asked by reporters if the province has had recent conversations with a hockey franchise about relocating.

"Any questions like that are better directed to (Manitoba Moose owner Mark Chipman)," said Doer.

University of Manitoba economist John McCallum said an improved economy in the province and surrounding region, as well as a salary cap for players, has made it more realistic for the city to support an NHL team.

"We are big enough and robust enough to support this kind of endeavour, especially with the controls they have on it now. We supported it once, and I think the terms are better now," said McCallum.

"I think we have the economic muscle to do this, if the people want it."
__________________________________________________________________

It's alive! It's alive!
Life being breathed into dream of 'Peg NHL team

By TOM BRODBECK

WINNIPEG SUN NEWS Saturday, January 27, 2007

The dream of Winnipeg getting a National Hockey League team isn't just "still alive" as our front-page shouted out yesterday, following comments made by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman this week.

The dream has been inching closer every year over the past several years. So much so that even some of the skeptics in the local sports media world are jumping on the bring-back-the-Jets bandwagon -- acknowledging at least that bringing the NHL back to the 'Peg is now a possibility.

Talk of the NHL returning to Winnipeg was re-ignited in 2003 after the financially strapped Pittsburgh Penguins began musing about relocation.

We got our first boost when hockey sportscaster John Davidson suggested at the time that Winnipeg would be a good place for the Penguins to move. It wasn't much.

But it gave the corpse its first pulse.

Then, former Winnipeg Jets general manager John Ferguson said he believed the city, with its new downtown arena, could "definitely" attract an NHL club.

A year later, Hockey Night in Canada guru Ron MacLean said he believed Winnipeg could have an NHL team within five years.

That got the pulse beating a little faster.

Like now, NHL hockey was not selling well in a number of U.S. markets. And the thinking in 2003 was that if the stars aligned just right, maybe -- just maybe -- Winnipeg could pick up a team.

But there was still a major stumbling block, the same one that was largely responsible for the Jets leaving Winnipeg in the first place: run-away player salaries that long-ago priced this city out of the marketplace.

FALSE HOPES

Everyone agreed that without a salary cap and revenue sharing, it would be impossible to bring the NHL back to a city like Winnipeg.

The skeptics said it was dangerous to even talk about the NHL returning to Winnipeg because all it did was raise false hopes.

We were just setting ourselves up for disappointment, they said.

But then came the NHL lockout, the bitter infighting and, eventually, a new collective bargaining agreement that included a salary cap and revenue sharing.

Suddenly, a whole new world opened up for Winnipeg. Even the skeptics were forced to take a closer look.

We now had "cost certainty," as Manitoba Moose president Mark Chipman said, which allowed him and his colleagues to start doing some arithmetic on this baby.

Still, the league would never have us, the skeptics said. Gary Bettman hates us and wants nothing to do with another Canadian team.

But then, this week, the sea parted a little more.

"Even though we haven't done the homework, I believe, in an ideal world under the partnership we have with the players and the salary cap, that Winnipeg probably could support an NHL team," Bettman said on CBC-TV during the NHL all-star game.

The last time I heard Bettman utter the word "Winnipeg" is when he virtually wrote us off in 2004, saying the league had nothing to offer Winnipeg.

Tell me we haven't made any progress on this file.

The next day Chipman -- who would have to be at the centre of any new NHL team in Winnipeg -- released a statement which said he, too, believes Winnipeg could support a team.

"Mr. Bettman's assessment is consistent with the conclusions we have arrived at after examining the NHL's new framework for ourselves," said Chipman.

Hey now.

Even the skeptics had to climb aboard now, saying maybe it's worth keeping the dream alive after all.

Uh, huh.

Winnipeg is still miles away from getting an NHL team.

But we're miles ahead of where we were four years ago.

And that's something to get excited about.

Even for the skeptics.
_________________________________________________________________

Everyone keep your finger's crossed! :tup:

[FFX-ME]

Ah thats great i hope its works out, and then we can bring teams back to quebec and hamilton, maybe halifax who seems interrested

[freeweed]

I have to admit, Bettman's comments during the All-Star game just about made me fall off my chair. I've NEVER heard him say a single positive thing about Winnipeg, EVER.

Quebec City will never get a team back - no one cared when they left, no one has since tried to revive hockey there. Hell, wasn't there some big international tournament cancelled due to lack of interest in QC?

Halifax is an interesting one - there should be enough population in the Maritimes willing to drive all the time to support a small team, but would there be enough corporate support (the trend of this decade)?

I think someone needs to work out just what TV revenue is worth to an NHL franchise. With 24 American teams I think they may attract an average of 18 viewers per week. A Winnipeg franchise would attract a quarter million per game in the city, and hell, a LOT of former Winnipegers and just Canadians in general... I bet Jets games would be some of the most watched, for a while.

[Greco Roman]

Mmmmmmmmmmm............................................... daddy likes!

:banaride: :banana: :awesome: :cheers: :tomato: :cucumber: :apple: :pepper:



:upload_71700:

But let's wait and see.

Now we wait for the usual positive, upbeat comments made by our favorite Ottawa forum member lol.

[CorporateWhore]

Thanks Gary. Now we're going to have to listen to another round of Jets fans trying to grasp onto every little straw that is out there in hopes of bringing back the team despite a lack of corporate support, population base, and a legitimate NHL sized arena. This city would be struggling every year to just keep up in today's NHL and things are pretty good right now. What happens when the dollar tanks again or the league get's another bargaining agreement that skyrockets salaries? Bye-Bye Jets Round 2, thats what.

I don't necessarly blame people for hoping to get their hockey back, but boy, it sure is not fun to watch for the rest of us.

[Greco Roman]

Thanks Gary. Now we're going to have to listen to another round of Jets fans trying to grasp onto every little straw that is out there in hopes of bringing back the team despite a lack of corporate support, population base, and a legitimate NHL sized arena. This city would be struggling every year to just keep up in today's NHL and things are pretty good right now. What happens when the dollar tanks again or the league get's another bargaining agreement that skyrockets salaries? Bye-Bye Jets Round 2, thats what.

I don't necessarly blame people for hoping to get their hockey back, but boy, it sure is not fun to watch for the rest of us.


If you say so; I guess the poor little Winnipeggers can't afford (or maybe don't deserve) to watch our national sport like NYC, eh? .................. I'm betting you are a flames fan, right?

[1ajs]

meh

[sky_Winnipegger]

Well, it isn't always fun to watch other cities stuggle with its issues... sports or non sports issues... but it's not very classy to complain about it.

I can find/list a lot of things about NY city that I don't like. You want to talk about painful to watch...???

So please don't try to step on Winnipeg b/c we are showing some civic pride.

Note
(this is my first post on this web-site... I have been reading this forum for at least of couple of years now... I enjoy the commentary very much... I never planned on ever posting... but I think it is time more Winnipeggers stand up for Winnipeg. The reality is that Winnipeg is a better place to call home then many other cities. So when I saw the above comment, I just had to push back...)

thanks

[Greco Roman]

Well, it isn't always fun to watch other cities stuggle with its issues... sports or non sports issues... but it's not very classy to complain about it.

I can find/list a lot of things about NY city that I don't like. You want to talk about painful to watch...???

So please don't try to step on Winnipeg b/c we are showing some civic pride.

Note
(this is my first post on this web-site... I have been reading this forum for at least of couple of years now... I enjoy the commentary very much... I never planned on ever posting... but I think it is time more Winnipeggers stand up for Winnipeg. The reality is that Winnipeg is a better place to call home then many other cities. So when I saw the above comment, I just had to push back...)

thanks


:tup: Fully agree, mon ami.

[CorporateWhore]

If you say so; I guess the poor little Winnipeggers can't afford (or maybe don't deserve) to watch our national sport like NYC, eh? .................. I'm betting you are a flames fan, right?

yeah, thats it. winnipeg wont get an NHL team because i'm a flames fan.

[1ajs]

welcome sky

[CorporateWhore]

So please don't try to step on Winnipeg b/c we are showing some civic pride.

Civic pride is one thing. Banging your head against the wall is completely different. There are so many issues that are working against Winnipeg getting an NHL team, I really don't see how you people can ignore them. This has nothing to do with Winnipeg being a good city to live in, it's just too small for the NHL market. Quantity, not quality.

I would love to see the Jets back, but let's be realistic here. Things would have be perfect for Winnipeg to have a team. Even Gary Bettman used the term "ideal world" to describe the scenario, and that was only after being pushed by Ron MacLean into a corner. But what happens when things aren't perfect? When the dollar is down? When salaries go up? When corporate support is waining? Then what? Do you really think civic pride will bail you in those circumstances?

[1ajs]

yeah, thats it. winnipeg wont get an NHL team because i'm a flames fan.

o god don't start this fight

[Greco Roman]

yeah, thats it. winnipeg wont get an NHL team because i'm a flames fan.


What I meant is that it must be nice to have come from one city and currently live in another city with hockey. So it must be easy to come down on a city that would love a second chance because NYC and Calgary are secure in the fact that their NHL teams aren't going anywhere.

[Pavlov]

/\ I don't think that Calgary is very secure that the Flames aren't going anywhere. Indeed, that is CW's point. If the dollar weakens significantly and the salary cap rises in the next decade, even the Flames could be threatened again. For Winnipeg, the threat is that much greater.

[big W]

I am all for Winnipeg trying to get their team back. I long for the old Smythe division rivalries. The only problem is that I don't see it happening simply due to ownership of the league. Before they would go to Winnipeg, Houston comes into play. Remember Houston has a metro area of over 5 million people or more than 7X that of Winnipeg and a metro area that is significantly richer. While its true that Winnipeg has a much higher %'age of hockey fans, the sheer number of people and economics of Houston are hard to ignore when compared with the Peg (corporate base, disposible income, population and economics growth rate etc). When an owner out there is looking at leaving their current city, they will look at all options and I don't see an owner moving to Winnipeg over Houston, as much as I would love to see the Jets back. Houston has an arena, that is 18,500 and has 100 suites or double that of the MTS Centre and in Houston they can sell the tickets for more money than what they can charge in Winnipeg. The answer to the question "can Winnipeg support a team" is yes. Now the question comes how does it stack up to other potential markets for current and long terms growth prospects, it loses. Being second best or close enough to a current market is not good enough, Winnipeg has to be better than a market that is in the NHL right now to make it a thought that an owner would entertain and it would also have to have better long term prospects. In this regard I fear that Winnipeg might be the second best market out there and thus close but no cigar.

[CorporateWhore]

What I meant is that it must be nice to have come from one city and currently live in another city with hockey. So it must be easy to come down on a city that would love a second chance because NYC and Calgary are secure in the fact that their NHL teams aren't going anywhere.

Dont misinterpret being realistic with "coming down". This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of life in Winnipeg compared to any other city. Some places are just too damn small or don't have the proper types of support that is needed. I'm sure Regina is a nice place to live too, but you don't see them clamoring for the NHL? Now is it because they are an awful city, or because the market just can't support it?

I'm a big fan of bringing the game back to Canada, but I just dont see it in Winnipeg. Another team in Ontaria on the other hand....

[CorporateWhore]

/\ I don't think that Calgary is very secure that the Flames aren't going anywhere. Indeed, that is CW's point. If the dollar weakens significantly and the salary cap rises in the next decade, even the Flames could be threatened again. For Winnipeg, the threat is that much greater.

Exactly! A city almost twice the size of Winnipeg with a massive amount of corporate support has to also have very favourable conditions for it to sustain itself (as does Edmonton, Ottawa and to a lesser degree, Vancouver). Just because conditions are good now, does not guarantee anything for the Canadian teams in the future.

[Greco Roman]

Dont misinterpret being realistic with "coming down". This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of life in Winnipeg compared to any other city. Some places are just too damn small or don't have the proper types of support that is needed. I'm sure Regina is a nice place to live too, but you don't see them clamoring for the NHL? Now is it because they are an awful city, or because the market just can't support it?

I'm a big fan of bringing the game back to Canada, but I just dont see it in Winnipeg. Another team in Ontaria on the other hand....

So what? Yeah, I guess Ontario should get another team and Winnipeg left out in the cold..........................................NOT!

Like someone else stated before; let a team come back to the city. If it doesn't work, then we have only ourselves to blame. If it works out, then all those nay-sayer will have no choice but to eat their negative words. But what is wrong with a second chance?

My main point is that it will be a step in helping the city improve it's image as a world class city and also improve its self-esteem. We don't need those who have never even been to Winnipeg criticizing us for wanting to improve our quality of life.


Your point is valid, but I stand by what I say.

[Pavlov]

Like someone else stated before; let a team come back to the city. If it doesn't work, then we have only ourselves to blame. If it works out, then all those nay-sayer will have no choice but to eat their negative words. But what is wrong with a second chance?


Oh a second chance won't hurt the people of Winnipeg any, but it could hurt the hypothetical Winnipeg owner to the tune of 30 or 40 million dollars in losses.

[Greco Roman]

Oh a second chance won't hurt the people of Winnipeg any, but it could hurt the hypothetical Winnipeg owner to the tune of 30 or 40 million dollars in losses.

Well, I'm pretty sure that the financial backers are fully aware of the reward/risk with such an investment. Don't worry about Winnipeg; we can handle our city just fine. ;)

[CorporateWhore]

Well, I'm pretty sure that the financial backers are fully aware of the reward/risk with such an investment. ;)

yes, and that's pretty much why you don't see a team in Winnipeg.

[Greco Roman]

yes, and that's pretty much why you don't see a team in Winnipeg.


:rolleyes: Again, if you say so. You are entitled to your own opinion.................................................

[berzerkled]

I've always said that Winnipeg's biggest problem are the attitudes of it's people. With this Jets issue is just shines even more. I'm always stunned at how all these, "Do you think Winnipeg will get an NHL team?" polls on regional websites are always in favour of it not or never happening. While if the site is national or American, it's ALWAYS positive that we will get a team back shortly. Quite the headshaker! :rolleyes:

[CorporateWhore]

:rolleyes: Again, if you say so. You are entitled to your own opinion.................................................

The sad thing is that you still think this is about opinions.

Please, I implore you, give me some stats and numbers that support your arguement. That is the only way you can convince anyone that a team can be viable in the long term in Winnipeg. Leave the sentimentality out of it.

[bomberguy]

I hate hockey so much but I hope we get a team. Whatever makes Winnipeg better... do it.

[Greco Roman]

I've always said that Winnipeg's biggest problem are the attitudes of it's people. With this Jets issue is just shines even more. I'm always stunned at how all these, "Do you think Winnipeg will get an NHL team?" polls on regional websites are always in favour of it not or never happening. While if the site is national or American, it's ALWAYS positive that we will get a team back shortly. Quite the headshaker! :rolleyes:

Not always; some Canadians and Americans on here seem to agree that it will never happen :sly:

[Andy6]

I've always said that Winnipeg's biggest problem are the attitudes of it's people. With this Jets issue is just shines even more. I'm always stunned at how all these, "Do you think Winnipeg will get an NHL team?" polls on regional websites are always in favour of it not or never happening. While if the site is national or American, it's ALWAYS positive that we will get a team back shortly. Quite the headshaker! :rolleyes:

Maybe some Winnipeggers see not having a team as a positive, because they don't really care about hockey and believe that any team that did materialize would inevitably require public funds and tax concessions.

[Sulley]

yay, Canadian bitchfest.

[Greco Roman]

yay, Canadian bitchfest.


as usual

[1ajs]

yay, Canadian bitchfest.

:haha:

[CorporateWhore]

yay, Canadian bitchfest.

yay, useless thread contribution.

[Sulley]

indeed.

[Coldrsx]

let me begin with how much i want winnipeg to get a team back....some of the best most loyal and loving fans i have ever seen. I would love EDM-CAL-WPG rivalries again....real hockey cities as opposed to our nuks out west:>

But i still just dont see it happening.....i hope i am proven wrong, but even in the current leagues setup, i just cant see it.

Edmonton with what 1500 or so more seats and a bigger market for all things involved makes it work, but barely and that is with sold out games 98% of the time. We are in a position that we need a new rink which will be probably around 18500 with double our current boxes....

i hope the peg proves me wrong, but i just dont see it economically.

[feepa]

1. Arena Size (or lack there of)
+
2. Lack of Corporate support
+
3. Lack of Fan Catchment.
+
4. Gary B has only said that conditions are only slightly more favorable for a team to come back to Winnipeg
=
Winnipeg thinks its getting its time back?

LOL!!!

[Coldrsx]

^corporate support i would argue is likely there....arena size and catchment is an issue.

[LeftCoaster]

let me begin with how much i want winnipeg to get a team back....some of the best most loyal and loving fans i have ever seen. I would love EDM-CAL-WPG rivalries again....real hockey cities as opposed to our nuks out west:>

Uncalled for.. do we really want to venture down that path?

[Coldrsx]

^miso solly

[Jay in Cowtown]

I would move a team to Houston or Seattle before Winnipeg, simply due to market size... after those two cities though, I'd go with Winnipeg over K.C. or Portland!

[CorporateWhore]

Uncalled for.. do we really want to venture down that path?

I wouldn't want to wage that battle either if i was in your position. ;)

[LeftCoaster]

Haha guess just becuase you throw that little wink in at the end it makes it ok for you to take a shot? What makes you think Calgary has more or better fans? there are certainly more fans in Vancouver, as it has twice the population, and there are certainly just as rabid as fans, me being one of them, so lets just leave it that Canadians love their hockey across the county, before this gets stupid.

[Jay in Cowtown]

The "Battle of W. Canada" is far more hate fueled that the Battle of Alberta... Flames/Oil vs. Casucks is the new war... if the Jets were to enter the NHL again, me's think their rivalry would be with the Wild and Coyotes.

[Coldrsx]

Haha guess just becuase you throw that little wink in at the end it makes it ok for you to take a shot? What makes you think Calgary has more or better fans? there are certainly more fans in Vancouver, as it has twice the population, and there are certainly just as rabid as fans, me being one of them, so lets just leave it that Canadians love their hockey across the county, before this gets stupid.

ok how about we leave it at:


"the west coast is the best coast, except when it comes to hockey fans, hey are just ok compared to AB/MAN"

[pegcity]

I like how Gary Bettman couldn't even pronounce Winnipeg properly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN6h62D7XQ8
3:00 Minute mark...He thinks "Winnopeg" could support a team,nice.

Has anyone seen this, it's a Gary Bettman spoof...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFkKJbsC3Y

GO JETS GO

[SHOFEAR]

Do we really need three active topics devoted to this pipe dream?

[LeftCoaster]

ok how about we leave it at:


"the west coast is the best coast, except when it comes to hockey fans, hey are just ok compared to AB/MAN"

Yea I guess I forgot about how upset you guys were when you lost in game 7 of the finals.. some riot you guys had...:haha:

[newflyer]

..

[SHOFEAR]

Yea I guess I forgot about how upset you guys were when you lost in game 7 of the finals.. some riot you guys had...:haha:

lol. remember 1994

Vancouver's support for the canucks (not including the past five years) has been marginal at best. Shall we compare support for the CFL too?

[newflyer]

Maybe some Winnipeggers see not having a team as a positive, because they don't really care about hockey and believe that any team that did materialize would inevitably require public funds and tax concessions.

The reality is no hockey team would pay as much tax as an NHL team which didn't have to pay taxes. :rolleyes:

The mean differnce being that Winnipeg's level of civic pride would skyrocket. If thats not worth tax dollars than so be it, but please don't let some anti-hockey person say it would hurt the community if it didn't pay taxes.

I believe the city and province have poured millions into various attempts to make Winnipeg seem cool again, after the Jets left town. It would be much easier to market Winnipeg on many levels if there were an NHL team downtown. The city would seem much bigger with the LA Kings visiting downtown.. and the downtown would seem a much more exciting place to go , as well as invest.

This is not to say Winnipeg will or won't get the Jets back... but I strongly beleive there are many benefits to the city and province, even if they didn't pay taxes.. including retaining younger population, instilling higher confidence in downtown.. as well as the city as a whole.. and for marketng and tourism which would benefit the city's economy. Losing the team cost the city a much greater amount than I think the politicians ever believed it would, but without a new arena t was just not possible, at that time.

Today Winnipeg is in a much different situation than it was in 1996. in terms of venue as well as economy.

[mr.x]

my gawd. isn't this like the 20th topic on the NHL returning to Winnipeg??? Wake me up when it's officially official. This is worse than the boy who cried wolf.

[LeftCoaster]

lol. remember 1994

Vancouver's support for the canucks (not including the past five years) has been marginal at best. Shall we compare support for the CFL too?

HAHAHA go for it! Id be emberassed if my city was tops for CFL fans, CFL is a sick joke of a league. Im sorry I got goaded into responding to coldrsx, im just so sick of people hating on Vancouver fans, just becasue there is a large immigrant population in Vancouver who couldnt care less about Vancouver. Bottom line is behind all those people who dont care is a legion of avid fans as loyal as any in Canada.

[SHOFEAR]

Im sorry I got goaded into responding to coldrsx, im just so sick of people hating on Vancouver fans, just becasue there is a large immigrant population in Vancouver who couldnt care less about Vancouver. Bottom line is behind all those people who dont care is a legion of avid fans as loyal as any in Canada.

And there is a lot of truth to that. But what I don't respect is when you get all those people jump on the bandwagon when times are good. Unfortunatly, from an outsiders perspective, very few cities have such a high porportion of bandwagon fans and it really tarnish's the image of the Vancouver sport scene.

I'll defend the CFL to the day I die.

[Greco Roman]

From my point of view, most (not all, but yes most) of Canada couldn't give a rat's ass about Winnipeg or if the city gets an NHL team back. That is the reality of the situation. So be it.

Who cares what the rest of the country (or Continent for that matter) thinks about this topic? Lets find those that DO feel it is feasible and WILL support bringing a team to the city. Let's find what CAN work. It's worth a shot.

[Xelebes]

The "Battle of W. Canada" is far more hate fueled that the Battle of Alberta... Flames/Oil vs. Casucks is the new war... if the Jets were to enter the NHL again, me's think their rivalry would be with the Wild and Coyotes.

I too would prefer a battle of Churchill vs. Mississippi as opposed to a four-team foray in Western Canada.

[Pavlov]

/\ Agreed. That's the best way for Winnipegers to approach this issue. But you can't expect the rest of us to get too excited about it.

[Greco Roman]

/\ Agreed. That's the best way for Winnipegers to approach this issue. But you can't expect the rest of us to get too excited about it.

It would be nice to get the support, but I honestly don't expect it from the rest of Canada. That is just the way it is with Winnipeg from the rest of the country's point of view; we are on our own.

[LeftCoaster]

From my point of view, most (not all, but yes most) of Canada couldn't give a rat's ass about Winnipeg or if the city gets an NHL team back. That is the reality of the situation. So be it.

Who cares what the rest of the country (or Continent for that matter) thinks about this topic? Lets find those that DO feel it is feasible and WILL support bringing a team to the city. Let's find what CAN work. It's worth a shot.

Id personally love it if Winnipeg got a team back, I really miss those Vancouver Winnipeg playoff rivalries in the early 90s... the jets were always a good opponent.

[smasher000]

Manitoba Moose Baby!

[Only The Lonely..]

Another important factor that deserves consideration is that Mark Chipman (owner of the Moose, and possible partner in an NHL ownership bid) also owns the arena he operates out of.

This means any hockey team playing at MTS can also draw upon the outside revenue that the arena generates when it hosts a concert or other non-hockey event.

[Only The Lonely..]

Relocation might not be 'Peg's only hope

By KEN WIEBE -- Winnipeg Sun


WILKES-BARRE, Pa. -- So now that it appears the Pittsburgh Penguins will not be vacating Pennsylvania after all, where does the NHL-to-Winnipeg pipe dream stand?

Despite the posturing by Mario Lemieux and Co., who suggested the time is drawing near for the Penguins to decide whether to stay or relocate to a place like Kansas City or Houston, reports here this week have Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell on record expressing confidence that a deal can be reached to keep the franchise in Pittsburgh.

This should come as no surprise. Despite all the knuckle-dragging, a new arena in Pittsburgh looks to be a done deal. The goal all along was to remain in the Steel City and that's what will almost certainly happen.

In all honesty, it has little to no impact on whether or not the NHL could return to Winnipeg anyway.

It was nothing more than a shot in the dark to think Lemieux and co-owner Ron Burkle could decide to move the Penguins to the MTS Centre as early as next season. In fact, there's absolutely no indication anyone from Winnipeg has even spoken to Lemieux or his partners.

However, what could spark some interest and discussion in the coming months was an interview that media mogul David Asper gave to a Toronto radio station on Tuesday.

Asper, who was in Dallas for the NHL all-star festivities, kept his cards close to the vest but did confess he would be interested in backing Moose governor Mark Chipman's efforts to bring a team to Winnipeg -- if such efforts exist.

Even if the Penguins don't move, relocation of an existing franchise remains a possibility. It wouldn't be a stretch to suggest a team like the Florida Panthers might be able to be more profitable in a hockey market like Winnipeg rather than in South Florida.

And that might not be the only possibility.

Whispers around the NHL suggest the league is considering future expansion, and no doubt Winnipeg will be a name thrown into the mix by many speculators.

The idea of increasing by two teams and moving to a balanced two conferences with two divisions and 16 teams in each has been floated in recent weeks.

Still, while all six Canadian markets seem to be thriving, there has been no real movement from the NHL governors position regarding the notion of bringing additional franchises to Canada -- they would be reluctant, to say the least.

The current aim continues to be to try to grow the sport in the United States, though it's clear that some of the struggling markets simply don't care enough to support their franchise.

So where does that leave Winnipeg?

Well, right now it stands as a solid American Hockey League market. It's best chance to land back in the NHL would be to entice a current owner to pull up stakes and make the MTS Centre home.

And the most likely model -- even with Mr. Asper stepping forward -- would be to have an owner relocate on the premise that he would remain involved in some capacity, probably as majority owner.

At this point, Winnipeg must still be considered a long shot, but the whispers just don't seem to want to go away. And those recent whispers could bring good news to those holding out hope.

Or it might simply bring heartbreak again.

[Only The Lonely..]

It would be nice to get the support, but I honestly don't expect it from the rest of Canada. That is just the way it is with Winnipeg from the rest of the country's point of view; we are on our own.

The rest of Canada has never had a problem dumping on our grave. So I think its safe to say we're in this all alone.

Stand tall Winnipeg, stand tall..

http://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/images/wo_fans2.jpghttp://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/images/wo_fans3.jpg

[sky_Winnipegger]

_

[sky_Winnipegger]

Civic pride is one thing. Banging your head against the wall is completely different. There are so many issues that are working against Winnipeg getting an NHL team, I really don't see how you people can ignore them. This has nothing to do with Winnipeg being a good city to live in, it's just too small for the NHL market. Quantity, not quality.

I would love to see the Jets back, but let's be realistic here. Things would have be perfect for Winnipeg to have a team. Even Gary Bettman used the term "ideal world" to describe the scenario, and that was only after being pushed by Ron MacLean into a corner. But what happens when things aren't perfect? When the dollar is down? When salaries go up? When corporate support is waining? Then what? Do you really think civic pride will bail you in those circumstances?

Well, there are many other cities out there who have "dreams" that are not realisitic... but that is no reason to stomp on them.

I tell you what, just like many many professional sport franchies out there, there may be someone (or a group) who may decide to do this out of civic pride ... and yes loose some money... but that is no different that many other cities. It isn't always about $$ and cents. You may be surpirsed to see how close Winnipeg is to getting a team.

But if we get back to stats and facts... just so you know... the MTS centre is the fourth busiest and profitable arena in Canada and top 10 in North America. The word on the street is that the man/group looking to bring the Jets back are the same individuals who own the arena. In the first 2 years of operations, they have made money on the moose and made millions on non hockey events. If there is an ownership group here with deep pockets who have an emotional attachment to the city and were very upset when the Jets left... and if they can subsidize losses with non-hockey events, why wouldn't they bring a TEAM back. The numbers can work... but regardless, these are the type of guys who will do it because they want to be owners... cause they can... no different then what happened in Ottawa with Eugene Melnyk.

If sports was about making only $$$ and no egos involved or civic pride, then most leagues like the NHL and MLB would have shut their doors years ago...

So if someone rich want us to have a hockey team b/c he gets off on it (just like the owners accross the country... only the leafs make any real money), so be it!!! Ha.

[Only The Lonely..]

Winnipeg scores pre-season NHL game

Thu Jan 25 2007 | By Tim Campbell | Winnipeg Free Press

WILKES-BARRE, Pa. -- The bring-back-the-Jets crowd might have to put on their elbow pads to get to the front of the line for the next NHL game in Winnipeg.
They'll be battling Leafs Nation.

True North Sports and Entertainment chairman Mark Chipman confirmed Wednesday night that MTS Centre will be the site of an NHL pre-season game later this year between the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Phoenix Coyotes.

"Is that right? How could it be better than that, the old Jets and my Leafs?" said Winnipegger Todd Teplitski, one of the city's most insatiable Maple Leafs fans. "Awesome. I'm going to be there, taking my two boys and my dad for sure."

Asked which team will get his support, Teplitski waffled only briefly.

"How about a few cheers for the old Jets in the first period and then all for the Leafs the rest of the way," he declared.
September contest

Ticket details for the contest scheduled for September have yet to be released but True North and the Moose organization will make such an announcement in the coming days. The game will be an "official" Coyotes home game.

Chipman said Wednesday night that last September's sellout contest between the Edmonton Oilers and Coyotes at MTS Centre was encouragement enough to try yet another such venture.

The Oilers won 5-0 before a sellout of 15,015.

"We heard from the Coyotes during the event and shortly after it about the possibility of doing it again," Chipman said. "I was contacted by Mike Barnett (Phoenix GM) again a couple of months later and he told us he'd like to talk to us about the ability to bring in another game, this time with the Leafs.

"It sure made sense to talk about hosting another one based on last year's success."

The Moose, True North and MTS Centre didn't have a whole lot of trouble selling out last September's game and the presence of the Leafs this coming September doesn't figure to hurt.

"The Leafs are the most powerful brand in hockey and we've got a good relationship with Phoenix and they're comfortable with this," he said. "It just makes a lot of sense."

tim.campbell@freepress.mb.ca

[Nutterbug]

I would move a team to Houston or Seattle before Winnipeg, simply due to market size...

Didn't they once think the same about Atlanta, Miami and Phoenix?

[Only The Lonely..]

City to inherit hockey worlds? Quebec City bid hangs by thread; may be our gain

Thu Jan 25 2007 | By Gary Lawless | Winnipeg Free Press

THE 2008 Men's World Hockey Championship is on the brink of failure in Quebec City and Winnipeg has been targeted by Hockey Canada as the top alternative.
Hockey Canada has given the Quebec City committee a week to show it has its house in order and if that doesn't happen, Winnipeg could be granted the tournament within two weeks of today.

"(Hockey Canada) knows the spectrum of our capacity, they know what we've done in the past, they know our history," True North Sports and Entertainment CEO Jim Ludlow said Wednesday. "They say 'We think we have a solution in Winnipeg. We need a solution, because we are teetering on the edge of a major problem for Hockey Canada and the IIHF (International Ice Hockey Federation) in Canada.' Hockey Canada cannot fail in the men's tournament, the first time it's been off European soil in 100 years. Especially with it coming to Canada, the birthplace of hockey.

"So barring an organizational miracle in Quebec City, if it's out of Quebec City, we have probably the best chance of any community in Canada of getting up to speed and making this work."

Winnipeg is staging the 2007 Women's World Championship, which is on course to be a success. Ludlow says the women's worlds staff could easily be enhanced for the men's event.

"We have the infrastructure in place. The men's tournament is a bigger event but we have the administration and organization to handle such an event," said Ludlow.
Hockey Canada president Bob Nicholson is not sitting idly by waiting for a report from Quebec City, due on his desk next Wednesday. He flew to Winnipeg last Sunday along with Hockey Canada senior vice-president Scott Smith and chairman Rene Marcil for a meeting with True North Sports and Entertainment chairman Mark Chipman as well as Ludlow. Hamilton is also reportedly interested in making a pitch for the tournament.

"Mark Chipman and myself met with Hockey Canada on Sunday of this week to discuss this very possibility, which is our venue and our committee providing a solution to Hockey Canada given the challenges in Quebec City," said Ludlow. "We think we are capable and able to provide a solution for Hockey Canada. We have the venue, we think we have the infrastructure, the administration and organization and the strength of community in Winnipeg to easily provide support to that level of tournament, which is very significant on the world stage."

Winnipeg originally bid on this event back in 2003 only to see it awarded to a combined bid of Quebec City and Halifax. The Halifax portion of the event is in fine order and has deposits for more than 1,000 ticket packages. The Quebec City bid has no chair for its host committee and deposits on just 300 ticket packages.

"To be fair to Hockey Canada, if they determine for all the reasons they're considering that that component of the tournament will not work in Quebec City, I'd like to think given the obvious strengths we have -- our community, our venue, our organization -- that Winnipeg would definitely be the front-runner as the alternative for Hockey Canada," said Ludlow. "If it moves from Quebec City, we are a very, very strong option for Hockey Canada. They're giving Quebec City another swing at the bat, appropriately so, but if that doesn't work out, my guess is, since the tournament was awarded over a year ago, the catch-up has to be very quick. The decision to move will be very, very quick. Shortly after the seven-day window passes or not, Hockey Canada is going to pick its dance partner to go along with Halifax."

Ludlow said the 2003 Winnipeg bid included a guarantee in the range of $7 million to be paid to Hockey Canada. There would be some adjustments to the proposed 2003 agreement, but it would be the same basic blueprint, said Ludlow.

"The tournament has inherent risk in it, but that's no different than any business arrangement," said Ludlow. "A Grey Cup weekend, a women's tournament or a men's senior tournament, it can boil down to an economic issue. There would be considerations to a deal going forward, but we'd put something similar in place and we don't see that as a significant impediment. We have confidence in this business proposition."

Any agreement between True North and Hockey Canada would not push the Manitoba Moose out of their MTS Centre home. True North has asserted to Hockey Canada that should the Moose be in the playoffs at the same time of the tournament, world championship games would be played in the afternoon and Moose games at night on intersecting dates.

Neither Nicholson nor Smith were available for comment on Wednesday.

What's going on?


Winnipeg is being considered to take Quebec City's place as host city for the 2008 Men's World Hockey Championship.


What games would we get?


* Team Canada training camp, Winnipeg

* Team Canada exhibition games , Winnipeg Pool A or B games not including Team Canada. Halifax would retain pool games featuring Team Canada

* All medal round games, Winnipeg

Expected costs -- round robin games an average of $35, medal round games an average of $65

When would it happen?


The event would run May 1 to 18, 2008.

[Only The Lonely..]

Nicholson knows this is the town for big international hockey tilts

Thu Jan 25 2007 | GARY LAWLESS | Winnipeg Free Press

GARY BETTMAN may not think much of Winnipeg as a hockey market, but to Bob Nicholson, there is no better place to stage an event.
Nicholson is in a tight spot these days with the 2008 Men's World Hockey Championship headed for a messy wreck in Quebec City.

So where does Nicholson turn when he needs a handshake agreement for a bailout? Winnipeg, of course.

Where else could a hockey executive stick out his hand and ask for a guarantee of $7 million as well as a promise for an organized and well-attended marquee international event? All put together in just over one year. Nashville, you say? Atlanta? Tampa? Phoenix? Miami?

Please continue reading now that you've recovered from choking on your doughnut. These places may all be part of Bettman's failing NHL vision, but they don't really register as true hockey markets. Not with real people in seats.

Winnipeg, however, does.
So with an organizing committee unable to name a chairman in Quebec City, deposits on less than 300 ticket packages and a new mayor who just last week went back and forth on whether she wants to be responsible for financial commitments agreed to by her predecessor, Nicholson has some issues in La Belle Province.

Out on the Prairies, however, there lurks a white knight with a beautiful state-of-the-art building and a ticket-buying populace that eats up international hockey.

Hell, in 2005 we bailed out the world junior tournament held two hours south of here. Doesn't even have to be in our country and we'll show up in our red and white, buy all the beer for sale and make the event something memorable.

So imagine what we'll do in our own backyard.

In fact, one need not imagine but just remember. In 1999 we set attendance marks with our world junior tournament. In December 2004 we sold out a pair of exhibition games played by Canada's national junior team. And we're in the process of putting on the 2007 women's worlds with the expectation of again setting attendance marks.

Put simply, we're among the top markets in Canada for international hockey events. So why wouldn't Nicholson turn to us in his hour of need? We'll make it right, and he knows it.

The IIHF has never held the men's world tournament in Canada and it hasn't left European soil in 100 years. So imagine Nicholson's horror when faced with the prospect of showing a globally viewed broadcast taped in a rink with empty seats.

The Hockey Canada czar went out on a limb to get this event played in Canada and he doesn't want to watch it go south. But maybe west wouldn't be so bad. The last team our country sent to the world championship included Sydney Crosby, Patrice Bergeron, Brendan Shanahan, Mike Comrie and Kenora's Mike Richards.

All wearing Team Canada jerseys and playing for our country. Tickets are expected to average in the $65 range for a gold-medal final.

Folks around here will line up for those stubs like they will for free perogies. It's a no-brainer. We'll buy the tickets, get the corporate sponsorships and make Team Canada game-nights memorable.

We'll fill the streets for tournament festivals, host our international hockey brothers and give them a two-week ride they'll never forget.

We are hockey. We know it even if the NHL doesn't. And this will be just another opportunity to let the rest of the world in on our secret. We're Winnipeg, and hockey belongs here.

gary.lawless@freepress.mb.ca

[Nutterbug]

Haha guess just becuase you throw that little wink in at the end it makes it ok for you to take a shot? What makes you think Calgary has more or better fans? there are certainly more fans in Vancouver, as it has twice the population, and there are certainly just as rabid as fans, me being one of them, so lets just leave it that Canadians love their hockey across the county, before this gets stupid.

Probably because we don't get natural ice here, and kids here grow up playing soccer, rugby, baseball, or anything other than hockey, so it's not really in their blood (at least not as much as in Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg or wherever).

[Only The Lonely..]

http://www.winnipegjetsonline.com/images/content/jetsFans/img-lg/ian_honk_lg.jpg

[Stephen Ave]

As far as Winnipeg getting an NHL team, to me it seems like a longshot, and I mean a real longshot. Mainly for two reasons, the MTS centre is too small, (it only holds 15,000), and corporate support. The team would get tremendous support from the 'average joe' fan, but so much of the revenue these days comes from coroprate support in the way of season tickets and private boxes. Corpoarte support is what carries teams during it down cycles and bad saesons.
Unless the Asper family is going to buy up all of the corporate boxes, and a boatload of season tickets there won't be much corporate support.
The test for Winnipeg would be after the team was there for 5 years and the novelty had worn off, as soon as they had a mediocre team, how many 'average joes' are going to shell out $120.00 a game? Winnipeg could probably support a team right now, but long term, seems doubtful.

As for the international hockey tournament, Winnipeg would be a great place to host it, and hopefully we see it go there.

[trueviking]

geez...how manty of these threads can there be?...i cant keep up with the arguments....

i cant believe 70 posts in one day on this topic....considering its the topic of discussion every second day in the winnipeg thread and its like the 4th thread in a month to talk about it.

i will summarize all of my posts on this topic.

1. corporate support: winnipeg has the 5th most head offices in canada, including the third highest per capita....it has as many top 500 head offices and almost as many head office employees than ottawa and edmonton combined...corporate support is not an issue....they sold out the luxury suites in 1996 before the building was even started....winnipeg has a large and very diverse corporate base that is largely homegrown and has a commitment to this city far greater than most corporations do to theirs...

2. arena size: a 15 000 seat arena is not too small in practical terms...the loss of revenue of 1500 300 level seats is only 2 million per year in revenues....not substantial at all...the optics of a 15 000 seat arena may be the bigger challenge...one advantage is that the team would own the arena and all the revenues of one of the busiest arenas on the continent....i wish it was bigger but it is not a breaking point issue.

3. ownership: winipeg has potential for an ownership group...the city has a number of very wealthy people who have expressed interst in this including david asper only last week on a national television show (prime time sports).

4. poor jets attendance: average attendance for the jets was only 500 less than the average attendance of the NHL in the 90's....it was a different time then...and the jets were one of the worst teams in the NHL for 17 years, having only 5 plus 500 records and only winning 2 playoff series in that time....they still hold the pro sports record for longest winless streak....comparing attendances from 1996 and today is not valid....even edmonton averaged only 13 000 in the early 90's.

5. AHL support: comparing attendance of the moose in the AHL to a potential support for the NHL is not valid either.....the AHL does not attract the same demographic....i for one have only been to two games in 10 years...last nights game was on the third page of the sports in the free press today, behind 4 articles about the NHL.

6. winnipeg's economy: there seems to be a pervasive feeling that winnipeg is a poor city and that we could never afford to support the ticket prices.....the reality is that economic growth in winnipeg has been 3% plus for a number of years now and has ranked near the top cities in the non-alberta country in economic growth....this chart shows that income levels and disposable income is right on with the national average....winnipeg is a different city than it was in 1996, when the jets left....as most canadian cities are....a decade of strong economic growth across the country has put all canadian cities in better position to support sports teams......a ticket price structure llike that of edmonton or ottawa could be supported in winnipeg...$120 is not the average ticket price in edmonton.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5434/incomepo5.jpg


there are many issues that are against winnipeg getting a team back....marketability for the league, public perception and the like, but i take issue with many of the knee jerk reactions that people have as they are based in stereotype not reality.

[Caesar555]

As a fellow western Canadian, I really do hope Winnipeg scores another team. It seems to me that the league is realizing that the hopes of exanding into the US would bring a bigger TV contract have fallen short. Stick to the markets who brung ya.
I can't wait to watch the Oilers beat up on the Jets again. Ahhh, the memories.

[Smron]

Well, I normally don't participate in these threads... they seem like a total waste of time. But, I am curious... I know other leagues like the NFL have some sort of revenue sharing set up that allows teams like Green Bay (CMA 279,485) to survive. Does the NHL have something similar? Or can anyone explain how it actually works?

[SHOFEAR]

Well, I normally don't participate in these threads... they seem like a total waste of time. But, I am curious... I know other leagues like the NFL have some sort of revenue sharing set up that allows teams like Green Bay (CMA 279,485) to survive. Does the NHL have something similar? Or can anyone explain how it actually works?

As always, everybody forgets that just about everybody in Milwaukee and Madison supports the Packers. That means that for all purposes they are a mid sized market team.

Why would the NHL allow expansion into a market whose business plan for staying afloat could depend on taking revenue from other teams? With Winnipeg what you see is what you get. Your going to have the same number of fans in year 15 as you did in year one accounting for market growth. With other non-traditional markets you have the potential (if done correctly with enough time) where you can incraese your fan base many fold. Now if I was commish, and somebody came to me wanting to purchase the rights to an expansion franchise and their business model was to rely on handouts, in the best of times, I'd run away as fast as possible.

[DLLB]

I would love to see an NHL team in Winnipeg but as long as that hater of Canada Pukman or Scumman or whatever it is, is in charge of the NHL, it will never happen. He would much rather put 20 teams in American cities where 99.999% of the population can't even spell hockey, can't follow the puck on TV unless it has a comet tail running after it and couldn't pick out a pair of skates in a shoe store window. As far as I am concerned, American businessmen have ruined the game. I bet that not one of them has ever played the game on a winters night on an outdoor rink just for the sheer pleasure of playing hockey or been out there coaching a bunch of kids. If it doesn't have a dollar sign attached to it, they can't be bothered.

I lived in Winnipeg during a number of the WHA and Jets days. Although I have been to games in Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver, I have never seen anything close to what it was like at the games in the ole Peg, especially during the playoffs. There was a true love of the game and a sheer joy of being there watching something that was an integral, enjoyable part of your childhood.

[feepa]

Dear Winnipeg,

Its nice to have dreams, but thats all this is.

Signed,

The NHL.

[DLLB]

Dear Winnipeg,

Its nice to have dreams, but thats all this is.

Signed,

The NHL.

You should make that

Signed,

Scumman (also know as Bettman)

[SHOFEAR]

Yes blame Bettman. It's his fault Winnipegs coorporate sector did not purchase the team and it's his fault the politicians couldn't work out a deal for a new arena.

[DLLB]

Yes blame Bettman. It's his fault Winnipegs coorporate sector did not purchase the team and it's his fault the politicians couldn't work out a deal for a new arena.

I am not saying its all his fault, just that he will make sure it never happens!

[Greco Roman]

Yes blame Bettman. It's his fault Winnipegs coorporate sector did not purchase the team and it's his fault the politicians couldn't work out a deal for a new arena.


Bettman is only half the problem. Yes, the lack of private investment was partly to blame for Winnipeg's loss of the team. That is why now is the time to find the right potential PRIVATE owner(s) to step up and make the bid. But I still believe Bettman needs to be given the boot; not just for Winnipeg, but for other small market Canadian teams like Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa.

But until this happens, no, we won't be getting a team in my opinion.

[berzerkled]

Excellent book on the topic..
http://www.amazon.ca/Thin-ice-politics-demise-franchise/dp/1895686717/sr=8-1/qid=1170028782/ref=sr_1_1/701-3010000-3108301?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Greco Roman]

Dear Winnipeg,

Its nice to have dreams, but thats all this is.

Signed,

The NHL.

Dear Edmonton,

It's nice to have a team that has numerous private investors that would soften the loss should one of them decide to opt out. What works in Edmonton can work in Winnipeg given the chance that is.

Signed,

The City of Winnipeg.

[SHOFEAR]

Dear Edmonton,

It's nice to have a team that has numerous private investors that would soften the loss should one of them decide to opt out. What works in Edmonton can work in Winnipeg.

Signed,

The City of Winnipeg.

Then why didn't it?

[Greco Roman]

Then why didn't it?

I don't have the answer to that; I'm sure there was a reason for gov't involvment at the time. But now provincial and civic governments want nothing to do with sports franchises, and I don't blame them. Gov't involvment with sporting teams is a bust, as we found out the hard way.

But that was then and this is now. We can learn from the past to make a better futur.

[SHOFEAR]

I don't have the answer to that; I'm sure there was a reason for gov't involvment at the time. But now provincial and civic governments want nothing to do with sports franchises, and I don't blame them. Gov't involvment with sporting teams is a bust, as we found out the hard way.

But that was then and this is now. We can learn from the past to make a better futur.

I have two possible reasons.

1) The coorporate sector didn't have the money
2) Those that had the money realized there was zero chance of breaking even

If anybody suggest that Bettman woke up one day and said "come hell or high water the Jets are moving" is delusional.

Yes Winnipeg was in a much different place ten years ago. But so was the NHL. That 20 some million dollar payroll that was average is now pushing 40 and rising.

I've brought this up before but Winnipeg's savior Mark Chipman is your worst enemy. Right now he has a license to print money. It costs nothing to run a AHL team and he will never give a sweethart deal to another ownership group to use the MTS center. Unless this guy is sitting on a fortune or is the largest philanthropist anyone has ever seen, there is no way he would be willing to give it up.

[Smron]

As always, everybody forgets that just about everybody in Milwaukee and Madison supports the Packers. That means that for all purposes they are a mid sized market team.

Why would the NHL allow expansion into a market whose business plan for staying afloat could depend on taking revenue from other teams? With Winnipeg what you see is what you get. Your going to have the same number of fans in year 15 as you did in year one accounting for market growth. With other non-traditional markets you have the potential (if done correctly with enough time) where you can incraese your fan base many fold. Now if I was commish, and somebody came to me wanting to purchase the rights to an expansion franchise and their business model was to rely on handouts, in the best of times, I'd run away as fast as possible.

Thanks for not even remotely answering my question, but still pointing out flaws.

[Distill3d]

Winnipeg will get another NHL team, and it'll happen within the next 5 years. i wouldn't gamble that it'll be an expansion team, i would gamble on some team in some market in the States moves. There is no Gretzky left to sell hockey to the states. thats the problem. there isn't one player out there with enough charisma and charm to put fans in the seats.

the NFL has Terrel Owens, the NBA has tonnes of players (Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Shaq...), golf has Tiger Woods, and now MLS has David Beckham. but who does the NHL have? Sydney Crosby? Alexander Ovechkin? neither of those to (IMO) has the skill to do what Gretzky did.

Winnipeg has the support to show the world that it doesn't deserve to be looked over. Hell, if it wasn't for a radio station in Winnipeg a couple years back, Motley Crue wouldn't have played in Calgary, Edmonton, or Winnipeg. That may be compairing apples and oranges, but if they rally that kind of support for a rock band to come to town, imagine what will happen when another team goes up to move from its home (my venture would be Tampa Bay or Florida)...

[Nutterbug]

the NFL has Terrel Owens, the NBA has tonnes of players (Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Shaq...), golf has Tiger Woods, and now MLS has David Beckham. but who does the NHL have? Sydney Crosby? Alexander Ovechkin? neither of those to (IMO) has the skill to do what Gretzky did.

They could make the goals bigger to inflate their stats.;)

[P&M40BELOW]

Here's some commentary to the gentlemen from Alberta. Winnipeg lost the Jets because the city and owners waited too long to build a new arena. By the time people got serious about it, the dollar was in the toilet, hockey seemed to be catching on in the States and salaries were out of control. If either Calgary or Edmonton hadn't built their new arenas, BOTH would have headed south. The fact is both teams barely made it out of the nineties alive. Calgary and Edmonton have no reason to be smug.

Winnipeg now has a superior arena to both Calgary and Edmonton, the dollar appears stable and hockey in the US is done.

As far as ownership goes, Winnipeg has an ownership group in place that would be considered serious money in any market; and it doesn't consist of 30 owners like in Edmonton.

Head offices.. Winnipeg has as many as Edmonton.
Ticket prices... The prices True North charged for an exhibition game between Edmonton and Phoenix last fall were completely in line with what current markets charge, and it sold out quickly. My seats were $100 bucks apiece, and I for one will not hesitate to buy season tickets.

Winnipeg CAN afford the NHL, and its return appears to be just around the corner.

Go Jets Go!

[SHOFEAR]

Winnipeg now has a superior arena to both Calgary and Edmonton

But yet the ball is rolling quickly on a 18 500seat/80 box arena in Edmonton and Ken king has dropped hints for the same in Calgary. Winnipeg took a big step with the MTS center, but Edmonton and Calgary are about to take a couple steps.

[m0nkyman]

SHO, we don't really know what the size of the Edmonton stadium will be. I posted this in the other thread, but facts are always handy to have:
RNK TEAM TOTAL AVG
1 Montreal 872,194 21,273
2 Tampa Bay 840,887 20,509
3 Detroit 822,706 20,066
4 Philadelphia 805,783 19,653
5 Ottawa 798,453 19,474
6 Toronto 795,747 19,408
7 Calgary 790,849 19,289
8 Vancouver 763,830 18,630
9 Minnesota 761,614 18,575
10 NY Rangers 743,848 18,142
11 Colorado 738,287 18,007
12 Los Angeles 731,475 17,840
13 Dallas 730,979 17,828
14 Buffalo 693,329 16,910
15 Edmonton 690,143 16,832
16 San Jose 690,095 16,831
17 Columbus 688,655 16,796
18 Boston 664,673 16,211
19 Florida 656,587 16,014
20 Pittsburgh 647,975 15,804
21 Carolina 639,454 15,596
22 Phoenix 638,871 15,582
23 Atlanta 637,578 15,550
24 Anaheim 619,380 15,106
25 Nashville 591,556 14,428
26 New Jersey 583,448 14,230
27 St. Louis 582,742 14,213
28 Washington 570,113 13,905
29 Chicago 546,075 13,318
30 NY Islanders 516,973 12,609

Looks like a Winnipeg team that pulls in 15,000 would be limited to being near the bottom of the league for attendance, which means that ticket prices would need to be higher for the team to bring in enough revenue to be competitive.

[trueviking]

Then why didn't it?

in 1996, it would have been financial suicide to buy the jets as a private owner...remember that even vancouver, calgary and edmonton were barely scraping by at that time....edmonton in particular was able to narrowly weather the storm with their 50 man ownership throng, but winnipeg wasnt as lucky....they were very close to saving the team, but winnipeg was not in their plans as they went after the american market...they did little to help....unlike today and the penguins.


times have changed, both in the NHL and in canada....all of the canadian cities are now profitable and very viable....edmonton is way better off today than it was in 1996, just as winnipeg would be....the league has changed as well as the strong canadian economy in all the NHL cities has taken the canadian cities from the brink a few years ago to profitable and stable...this is why today that winnipeg can be viable as well....the situation of all canadian cities has improved...as has winipeg's.

how quickly we forget that only a few sort years ago edmonton and calgary and vancouver were all perrenial losers and struggling financially...it has only been recently that the tables have turned...that is why winnipeg can now be considered...if the conditions were the same as in in 1996, we would lose them again.

i am not sure i would claim that the MTS centre is better than the arenas in calgary or edmonton.

[P&M40BELOW]

SHO, we don't really know what the size of the Edmonton stadium will be. I posted this in the other thread, but facts are always handy to have:
RNK TEAM TOTAL AVG
1 Montreal 872,194 21,273
2 Tampa Bay 840,887 20,509
3 Detroit 822,706 20,066
4 Philadelphia 805,783 19,653
5 Ottawa 798,453 19,474
6 Toronto 795,747 19,408
7 Calgary 790,849 19,289
8 Vancouver 763,830 18,630
9 Minnesota 761,614 18,575
10 NY Rangers 743,848 18,142
11 Colorado 738,287 18,007
12 Los Angeles 731,475 17,840
13 Dallas 730,979 17,828
14 Buffalo 693,329 16,910
15 Edmonton 690,143 16,832
16 San Jose 690,095 16,831
17 Columbus 688,655 16,796
18 Boston 664,673 16,211
19 Florida 656,587 16,014
20 Pittsburgh 647,975 15,804
21 Carolina 639,454 15,596
22 Phoenix 638,871 15,582
23 Atlanta 637,578 15,550
24 Anaheim 619,380 15,106
25 Nashville 591,556 14,428
26 New Jersey 583,448 14,230
27 St. Louis 582,742 14,213
28 Washington 570,113 13,905
29 Chicago 546,075 13,318
30 NY Islanders 516,973 12,609

Looks like a Winnipeg team that pulls in 15,000 would be limited to being near the bottom of the league for attendance, which means that ticket prices would need to be higher for the team to bring in enough revenue to be competitive.

Everyone knows that those numbers you are showing are cooked. There is a big difference between tickets distributed and paid attendance. In Phili they are panicing, because even though they have a large season ticket base no-one is actually showing up to the games this year. Next year could be a dissaster.

In Phoenix they are only getting 8-9,000 actually attending the games. A group resently went to a Coyote game and were offered 1/2 price on premium seats, plus food vouchers, because there was more than ten of them.

What Winnipeg's MTS Centre is missing is 2,000 nose bleed seats that most teams charge $10 - $12 for. $15,100 seats sold out every night can more than compete with the majority of cities that currently have teams.

Final note: Many people have pointed out that the areas that have been built in the last ten years are too big, and are in fact hurting the NHL and the NBA. Both games are meant to be played in more intimate settings. Empty seats don't create demand; just ask the Argos.

[feepa]

Winnipeg now has a superior arena to both Calgary and Edmonton, the dollar appears stable and hockey in the US is done.

Yes, agreed, your arena is nice(r) (then calgary or Edmonton, for the time being), but the capacity isn't.

[trueviking]

Looks like a Winnipeg team that pulls in 15,000 would be limited to being near the bottom of the league for attendance, which means that ticket prices would need to be higher for the team to bring in enough revenue to be competitive.

the difference is that 15 000 in winnipeg would actually be 15 000 people...the NHL is notorious for misrepresenting their attendance figures...they count all ticket given away, not sold..so 2 for 1 deals, corporate give aways and the like, which are substantial in many markets are all counted....the revenues from concessions, parking, marketing, t.v. and such, which are based on actual attendance are affected by this.

i have said this before....i went to 2 games in atlanta last year and one in phoenix.....in all three the announced attendance was more than 15 000 but the actual crowds ranged from 5 000 to 7 000 in atlanta to 10 000 in phoenix......and tickets were 10 dollars a piece for weekend games in atlanta.....

in phoenix, i got 2 tickets against the reigning champions on a saturday in the playoff stretch for $25 total, and that included 2 beach blankets and 2 hot dogs and 2 drinks.

what kind of revenue do you think the phoenix owners are pulling in compared to 15 000 full price tickets with actual people in the seats.

[trueviking]

But yet the ball is rolling quickly on a 18 500seat/80 box arena in Edmonton and Ken king has dropped hints for the same in Calgary. Winnipeg took a big step with the MTS center, but Edmonton and Calgary are about to take a couple steps.

i hope so...that would be great for both teams.

[Greco Roman]

I love how the whole country is wagging their index fingers at the city. It makes me feel so proud to be Canadian and to share in their wonderful nature towards Winnipeg :rolleyes:

[1ajs]

sounds like we got a winner here winnerpeg :)

[1ajs]

I love how the whole country is wagging their index fingers at the city. It makes me feel so proud to be Canadian and to share in their wonderful nature towards Winnipeg :rolleyes:

least were not toronto :tup:

[feepa]

Just for fun here's some NHL related metro populations: (2005 estimates - in millions)

18.7 NY-NJ
12.9 LA
9.4 Chicago
5.8 Philidelphia
5.8 Dallas
5.4 Miami
5.3 Toronto
5.2 Washington DC
5.2 Houston
4.9 Atlanta
4.4 Detroit
4.4 Boston
3.8 Phoenix
3.6 Montreal
3.1 Twin Cities
2.7 St. L
2.6 Tampa
2.3 Pittsburgh
2.3 Denver
2.0 Portland
1.9 Kansas City
1.9 Vancouver
1.7 Columbus
1.4 Nashville
1.4 Raleigh - Durham
1.1 Oklahoma City
1.1 Buffalo
1.1 Ottawa
1.0 Calgary
1.0 Edmonton
0.6 Winnipeg (0.7 might be more accurate?)