Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[Leo the Dog]

I went to Tempe for the 4th and I'd just like to say that I thought Metro did a great job handling the heavy passenger loads. I know it was somewhat of an experiment considering it was the first 4th of July, but IMO it went well. Every train consisted of 3 cars. The vehicle traffic was crazy, so I was definitely glad I took the train.

[Classical in Phoenix]

Anyone know how ridership numbers were for the first weekend of later hours on LR? I would assume because of the Fourth crowds at least Sat. would have been good.

[Tfom]

I took metro to steele indian school on the 4th and also had a pleasant experience. I was on a train w/in 7 minutes each direction. All of the people who drove were morons, and there were a lot of them. The only bad part was I thought the extremely inebriated man beside me was going to ralph on me. When he let out one of those sudden loud hiccups I got up and stood for the rest of the way.

[nickkoto]

I took light rail to the Tempe 4th show and getting there was ok, but getting home was kind of a clusterfuck. They seemed to have a few westbound trains ready to go, but most of the riders were heading east and they weren't quite so Johnny-on-the-Spot with them. I had to wait for 3 triple-car trains before I got on (about 45 minutes) and there was still quite a huge line behind me. It wouldn't have been a big deal usually (just hit up a bar instead for a round or two), but we had a kid with us.

The Mill station on Saturday night was easily the single biggest crowd I've seen queue up for the thing, including anything on opening day.

[Leo the Dog]

I took light rail to the Tempe 4th show and getting there was ok, but getting home was kind of a clusterfuck. They seemed to have a few westbound trains ready to go, but most of the riders were heading east and they weren't quite so Johnny-on-the-Spot with them. I had to wait for 3 triple-car trains before I got on (about 45 minutes) and there was still quite a huge line behind me. It wouldn't have been a big deal usually (just hit up a bar instead for a round or two), but we had a kid with us.

The Mill station on Saturday night was easily the single biggest crowd I've seen queue up for the thing, including anything on opening day.

Luckily I was going Westbound back to Phoenix. I did notice that the EB platform had a huge line that began pretty far north on Mill, but I assumed that more people came into DT Tempe from the east because of all of the park n' rides close by, and the fact that Mesa cancelled their fireworks show. Also, Phoenix had their own 4th celebration, so I imagine that many people coming from Phoenix got syphoned off at Steele Indian School Park.

I managed to get on the first WB train, only waited 5 minutes.

[Vicelord John]

lines to get on a train.... fucking stupid.

free for all = pack em in and go home faster.

I understand metro is trying to make an impression on the critics that it is clean, safe, curteous, etc. but it gets ridiculous at times.

[Leo the Dog]

^^^ Well I agree, however there were so many people that Mill Ave was shoulder to shoulder two blocks north of the station, so thats what we mean by "lines". They did have some lady with a loudspeaker telling the dumb public (that has probably never used public transit before) where to go and what platform to get on, even had large signs saying "Mesa" and "Phoenix". Even with this loud annoying person, there were still idiots that got on the wrong platform and simply couldn't follow directions.

They also had chain link fences up along 3rd St. So there was only one way into the station and that was from Mill, where everyone from Tempe Beach Park was coming from.

[Vicelord John]

Even with this loud annoying person, there were still idiots that got on the wrong platform and simply couldn't follow directions.


I was going to say that's what alcohol does, then I thought of the times I stumbled onto the train hammered drunk out of my mind in Toronto, Chicago, NYC, etc. and got from a bar whos location I wasn't sure of to a hotel. Maybe it's unfair to say that the general public had my upbringing, but I really don't think it's that difficult. I mean, if I can make a 40 minute trip from Downtown Toronto to Scarborough with 3 transfers and wake up in my hotel bed not remembering any of it, I would hope that people could at least read the sign or figure out which trains are going the direction of home. Oh well.

[glynnjamin]

That reminds me of when I used to live on Staten Island and I was drinking at some bar in midtown. It was 2am, I was plastered, and I had to transfer at Harold Square. I stared at the subway map for an hour before just getting on a train. By the time I got to Battery Park, the last ferry had left for the night so I had to sleep in the park with the homeless.

It was that next morning I decided I was moving to Phx.

[Leo the Dog]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/lightrailblog/57238
Denver scraps same train announcement system as Metro's

Denver’s light rail system, the RTD has abandoned “Next Train” technology, according to a story today in the Denver Post. Bugs in the communication system still plague a line that opened 2 ½ years ago. RTD has held back a $5 million payment on its contractor.

Next Train is a system that automatically tracks the location of every train on the track, and then automatically tells passengers on platforms how long they have to wait. It’s the same technology on Metro, where testing has been going on for three months. Metro still hasn’t nailed it, but the light rail agency says it is improving. Part of the problem is getting the trains’ on-board global positioning systems to talk reliably with the central control room and the central computer to translate the data. Until that’s perfected, controllers aren’t certain where every train is.

Says Metro’s spokeswoman Hillary Foose: “We are still fine-tuning our train tracking technology and therefore the announcements heard at the stations. The announcements are more and more accurate, but they will always be approximates; METRO is subject to traffic signal cycles. So even if a track circuit tells us a train is two minutes away from a certain station, if we catch an off-traffic light, the train’s arrival time will be impacted.”

Metro has no ETA for getting Next Train working perfectly.

Meantime, Foose is directing passengers to Metro’s new schedule (which also appears for the first time in the latest transit book) and the online trip planner.

Ultimately Next Train offers passengers the ability to find out where trains are from the mobile wireless devices. Some systems have started contracting for kiosks to go into popular hang-outs such as coffee bars. That way passengers can plan to leave for the station and minimize the time they wait on the platform.

- Sean Holstege
Wednesday, July 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM

[nickkoto]

:previous:

The "next train" announcements I've seen have actually been pretty accurate.

The problem is, it seems like 90% of the time the announcements don't come at all until the train is within 2 minutes from arriving, and at most stops you can just look down the street and visually see a train when it's only 2 minutes away. I more want to know when it's like 5-20 minutes away. Maybe I don't need the audio announcement so often, but I'd like to see the "next train" announcement scroll across the LED display about once every minute, and in a less wordy way. "Next westbound train: 6 Minutes" will suffice.

[HooverDam]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2009/07/09/20090709mr-sistercities0710.html

Group pushing Mesa-Guaymas rail link
31 comments by Art Thomason - Jul. 9, 2009 09:28 AM
The Arizona Republic
Port of Mesa?

It's the dream of a decade for the Mesa Sister Cities Association, but the citizen diplomacy group isn't waiting for California to fall into the ocean to establish Arizona's first direct maritime connection.

"We pulled out the files, dusted them off and started looking at them again," said Mayor Scott Smith. "And we have sort of resurrected the discussions."

"The Guaymas connection," he said, "still has a future."

The plan is to transform an old rail link between Mexico's Port of Guaymas and Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport into an active trade route feeding development and operation of manufacturing and redistribution businesses near the airport.

Arizona governors and lawmakers for years have vowed to seek development of Guaymas as "Arizona's seaport."

Former Gov. Janet Napolitano in 2004 called for an effort to maximize its potential as a "critical seaport connection for Arizona trade."

Despite the call, a maritime connection never materialized.

Now the Sister Cities group is pushing again, saying the Southeast Valley city of 450,000 has a better chance at making the link because of its longtime relationship with Guaymas and the 400 miles of railroad track that tie the Mesa-based airport with the large port on the Gulf of California.

The hookup, supporters say, could also accelerate a move by business and government leaders to turn Gateway into an international cargo hub by taking advantage of the airport's Foreign Trade Zone.

"It needs some work," Smith said. "There are some logistical issues, but it sort of fills in that last missing link."

"I think it is a good example of opportunities we can take advantage of, and Sister Cities has already opened the dialogue," Smith said. "We would be building upon something that was established before, so we're not starting from scratch."

After his election last year, Smith urged Sister Cities members to renew efforts at strengthening social and business ties with communities such as Guaymas and Kaiping, China.

His nudge didn't take long to spur the new shove for the Guaymas-Mesa link.

It was a virtual turnabout for the association, which trudged along during the past eight years with little moral support from former Mayor Keno Hawker.

Guaymas was selected as Mesa's first Sister City in 1981 after then-Gov. Bruce Babbitt encouraged Arizona cities to cultivate relationships with a city in Sonora, Mexico, to improve diplomacy and understanding and bolster trade.

Despite years without results, a Guaymas-Mesa connection could become reality under continuing pressure from the city, its Sister Cities Association and the state, said Luis Ramirez, a Phoenix economic development consultant who led the Arizona-Mexico Commission's look at border infrastructure.

Though the port itself still has some problems, a study shows that the Union Pacific railroad line is sufficient for the transportation of bulk and container traffic between the port and Mesa, Ramirez said.

"It's a functioning railroad and ready to go," he said.

The port of Guaymas, he said, would support a niche market for northwestern Mexico and "beachfront for Arizona" but should not be considered as an alternative to California's ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, Arizona's closest outlets to the sea.

"The challenges are the capability of the port itself which was expanded recently and dredged to make it deeper," Ramirez said. "It's a bit of the chicken and the egg. In order to get ships to come into the port, you need container traffic through it. Ships are not willing to go in until they see container traffic. Somebody needs to make that leap of faith to make sure the vessels come in."

The Mexican federal government's investment in port improvements should encourage Mesa, said Wayne Balmer, Queen Creek planning manager and a former Mesa planning director who supports the Guaymas-Mesa link.

"They have spent a lot of money recently to position it for garnering a greater share of international import and business activity. Their vision for the future involves international cargo, both rail and freight."

The concept is supported by Guaymas maquiladora (a foreign-owned factory at which imported parts are assembled by lower-paid workers into products for exports) organizations with established Arizona business links and some public officials.

Luis Felipe Seldner, co-founder and chief executive of The Offshore Group, a provider of services to foreign companies operating in Mexico, said the connection would be an industrial accelerator for Arizona and Sonora.

"It would be the closest port to Arizona and deliveries for certain goods would not be encumbered by delays experienced at the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, California," he said.

As a member of the Guaymas Sister Cities organization, Seldner has developed a longstanding professional relationship with his Mesa counterparts.

"We get together twice a year, once in Mesa and once here," he said. "There has been a lot of interchange in culture, business development and business contracts."

Sounds good to me!

[phoenixboi08]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2009/07/09/20090709mr-sistercities0710.html



Sounds good to me!

That sounds really good to me too! I hope it "materializes" :banana:

[electricron]

Maybe they should use old, reliable, and traditional technologies, like a printed train schedule and an accurate clock at the station plaforms. Or is doing a little reading and math too difficult for most Americans today?

[Vicelord John]

I don't care if they run a train to guaymas if I can't ride it. My parents have a condo in San Carlos that would be awesome to go visit but prolly the train is going to be freight and immigrants only.

[kingofleos]

Maybe they should use old, reliable, and traditional technologies, like a printed train schedule and an accurate clock at the station plaforms. Or is doing a little reading and math too difficult for most Americans today?

Duh. We're Americans. We don't read! That'd be UN-American. :koko:

[HooverDam]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/lightrailblog/57621

June Doldrums: Metro reports slowest month yet

Metro logged its slowest month on record last month. In June average weekday ridership fell below 30,000 for the first time.

The drop is no surprise, and for weeks Metro has been running one-car trains in anticipation. Transit use always cycles with the seasons, and in Phoenix, summer months are always the slowest. Metro attributes the fall-off in ridership to ASU being out of session, Phoenix residents taking vacations and snowbirds returning north.

Officials might add tourism to the equation. In the first months a large contingent of tourists was visible on the trains. With the searing summer, tourism drops off, so Metro will be feeling that pinch too.

It’s hard to tell yet the effect of triple-digit temperatures on those of us who live here year round. Late last week, the platform water fountains and the on-board AC systems were holding up well. But the mile-long walk was a bit on the uncomfortable side.

“We expect to have ridership peaks again in the fall and look forward to closing out the year strong,” said METRO CEO Rick Simonetta.

No surprise really, though of course the rubes at AzCentral are having a field day over it. Though one of them did bring up a good point, the D'backs being 20 games under .500 surely isn't helping. If they were winning and more people were going to the games, I think we'd see a few more people riding the trains. Even as it is I've seen the trains basically packed before and after games at the 3 or 4 games Ive attended this year.

[TAZ4ate0]

^Yep. It's nearly, or is mid-summer. The ridership drop is not unexpected. Once fall hits, and ASU is back in session, we'll see the numbers rise again.

[Leo the Dog]

^Yep. It's nearly, or is mid-summer. The ridership drop is not unexpected. Once fall hits, and ASU is back in session, we'll see the numbers rise again.

ASU classes start mid-August correct? Which means about a week before that students start moving back into dorms/apts. Probably another 4 weeks or so until we start noticing more people on the trains.

I hope both buildings at Taylor Place is packed with students come August.

[TAZ4ate0]

ASU classes start mid-August correct? Which means about a week before that students start moving back into dorms/apts. Probably another 4 weeks or so until we start noticing more people on the trains.

I hope both buildings at Taylor Place is packed with students come August.

A month is about right.

Taylor Place should be in full operation this fall as far as I know. :yes:

[PHX31]

I got a response from Valley Metro regarding that bus pull out/shelter on Thomas that I've been complaining about (in case anyone cares). Apparently there have been some legal issues going on with the land owner just south of the bus shelter (a pay-to-park lot) that's why it hasn't been put into use yet. So stupid.

YAY! I just noticed today that they moved the waiting benches and stuff from the old corner bus stop to the new bus bay/shelter that has a bus pull out. No more backups as the bus sits in the far right lane of traffic, finally! I guess they took care of the legal crap... only 7 months after light rail opened.

[glynnjamin]

Don't know if you guys follow Street Films but check this out
http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/on-herald-squares-transformation-and-disappearing-traffic/

Basically I was wondering if this seemed like something that was doable here in Phx. I was thinking Taylor would be the perfect street to close off to traffic (from the park to the AZ Center) but the parking garage entrances might make that a problem. I can just see it being a really cool pedestrian area with the Taylor Place & Cronkite shops and maybe a reworking of the AZCenter entrance.

Any other ideas on a location that would make for a nice pedestrian area here?

[trigirdbers]

So, it looks like I'm going to be coming back to the Valley for a year and I need someplace to live. I'm probably going to be working in Chandler, but I'd like a place within walking distance (10 minutes or less) of the eastern terminus of the light rail. Anyone care to recommend a nice apartment complex near there. I'd like to nab a 1br for around or under 600 or a 2br at or under 700. I figured that if any group of people would know what the uncommonly good cheap places are along the line it would be you guys so I entrust myself to your infinite wisdom.

[SunDevil]

I had a fried who lived in a complex On S. Kenneth Pl. It was just South of Apache, just north of the train tracks (might get noisy at times). Can't recall the name but I don't think it was to pricey and I don't remember it being a crap hole like the place I lived in.

Here it is: http://www.pinnacleholdingsinc.com/apartments/az/tempe/rancho_las_palmas/
Rancho Las Palmas and I guess their address is 1249 East Spence Avenue but you enter the place off of Kenneth. It's kind of pricey $660 for a 635 sq ft one bedroom though. I guess that's what happens when your are right off of lightrail and near campus. I have no doubt some one else can make a recommendation.

You could also go north of Apache and live near Four Peaks Brewery and still be close the Lightrail and the Orbit (free shuttle).

[nickkoto]

^^
That eastern terminus is not in a part of Mesa that I'd go out of my way to walk through. Maybe not so bad that you'd be guaranteed to get mugged, but bad enough that you'll still see the occassional hooker walking down Main St.

The same kind of applies to Apache in Tempe, and my house is in that area. I'm about 90% comfortable walking to the LR stop, but there's that shady 10% of the walk where the transients sometimes hang out.

I guess if I were to start from a blank slate, looking for a nice & affordable place near the light rail that wasn't too far from Chandler, I'd look at the various apartment complexes between University, Hardy, Rio Salado, & Ash in Tempe. I lived at Hidden Glen for a couple years and never had any problems there, but I'm sure the management has changed since then.

[Leo the Dog]

I'd look along the Price Frwy corridor. There's a ton of places along the 101 in Tempe/Chandler. If you live just off the frontage road, you can get up to Apache/101 station in 5-10 mins. One place is called Hohokam Villas SE corner Price/Warner in Chandler.

[KEVINphx]

So, it looks like I'm going to be coming back to the Valley for a year and I need someplace to live. I'm probably going to be working in Chandler, but I'd like a place within walking distance (10 minutes or less) of the eastern terminus of the light rail. Anyone care to recommend a nice apartment complex near there. I'd like to nab a 1br for around or under 600 or a 2br at or under 700. I figured that if any group of people would know what the uncommonly good cheap places are along the line it would be you guys so I entrust myself to your infinite wisdom.

Coral Point Apartments, 2343 W. Main Street.

[trigirdbers]

"That eastern terminus is not in a part of Mesa that I'd go out of my way to walk through. Maybe not so bad that you'd be guaranteed to get mugged, but bad enough that you'll still see the occassional hooker walking down Main St.

The same kind of applies to Apache in Tempe, and my house is in that area. I'm about 90% comfortable walking to the LR stop, but there's that shady 10% of the walk where the transients sometimes hang out"

I live in DC now, I better be gangsta enough to handle Mesa.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll have to check out some of those places when I get back to town.

[HooverDam]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/lightrailblog/

Phoenix parking costs soar, but can rail compete?

The price of parking in downtown Phoenix grew faster than in any major U.S. city, according to a recent industry report.

The median cost of an unreserved monthly parking space was $65, up from $35 two years ago, reports real estate consulting firm Colliers International. Phoenix rates are still low, on par with Fresno, California and Columbia, South Carolina.

Charles Miscio, senior vice president of Colliers in Phoenix, tells the Business Journal that the Metro light rail and newly expanded Phoenix Convention Center have helped drive up parking rates – 24 percent in monthly rates and 12 percent in daily rates. He says the trend will continue.
“With the light rail’s capability of moving more people in and out of downtown, we are beginning to see entertainment venues and businesses shift from the Camelback Corridor and other metro areas to downtown Phoenix to take advantage of light rail traffic,” Miscio said. “This shift is also driving more auto traffic into downtown, increasing parking garage usage and rates during both the daytime and evening.”

Three years ago I wrote a piece explaining how low parking rates can undermine light rail. Metro is trying to attract riders who chose to take the train over driving their personal car. By the economic laws of supply and demand, cheap and plentiful parking those riders can get to work cheaper in their cars. Metro can’t compete.

A downtown office worker who drives a car that gets 20 mpg now pays $70 a month to commute one mile, not counting upkeep or insurance. That’s significantly more than Metro’s Platinum Pass at $55 a month.

Had Metro been in service two years ago, that same commuter would have paid $40 a month to drive – less than the $45 cost of a monthly pass.

Now the tables seem turned, with rail being the cheaper, but necessarily more convenient option. It’s a little more complicated because many downtown employers offer deep discounts on parking and transit. And cost isn’t the only factor in deciding how to commute. But it will be interesting to see how the competition plays out. Will parking garages charge less to capture some of the rail riders or will more people turn to the trains?


Just thought that was interesting.

[PhxPavilion]

I've seen parking costs as high as $50 at Collier Center. Kind of ironic.

[PHX31]

Light Rail Gripe:

I took the light rail home from the d-backs game last night (headed towards Montebello/westbound). After leaving the stadium and getting to the Washington/3rd St platform (actually running to the platform to buy my tickets because the train was coming), we got on the train which wasn't too crowded. After getting on we sat and waited and waited and waited... and the train never moved. I really wish I looked at my phone for how long we sat there, but it was literally more than 5 minutes, it could have been more than 10 minutes or even 15 minutes. WTF was that all about??? People in the train started complaining and to top it all off, the train sat there with the doors open letting all the hot air into the train from outside (while no other passengers were getting on for several minutes).

Is that the best Metro can do for its event schedule? Sit there for 10 minutes and let as many people get on as possible, which wasn't really happening? Wouldn't having trains continually running as fast as possible be better, or at least running their normal frequency and not sitting there forever? I really have no clue what the hell was going on, but I know it wasn't a driver change because I was at the front of the front train. Maybe our train was WAY ahead of schedule and they wanted to hold back?

After last night, I started to side with the LR haters out there that say it's nothing more than an amusement ride. It sure didn't feel like public transportation last night... what about the people riding the train that weren't at the game, why did they have to sit there for 10 minutes at a station as the game got out?

The only thing I can think of was there was an accident or something backing things up (but i doubt it because they would have made an announcement... and I didn't see anything once the train started moving). Or, the police and the city's special event traffic control plan fucked up all of the signals to let the millions of cars pour out of Colliers Center and the pedestrians walk across Washington and they made the light rail car just sit there (which is stupid, plus there was about 5 or more signal cycles that went off allowing cars to travel through the signal on Washington, but we never moved).

It was really annoying and something or someone is really stupid when it comes to planning for light rail and downtown event traffic.

Then, when we got off at the encanto stop, there were about 10 drunk indians (not pc? too bad, that's what they were) just hanging out on the platform ramp where you exit the station. They weren't causing much of a rukus, they just asked me who won - they didn't even ask for money, but one of them unzipped his fly directly as we were walking by and as the train was pulling away and pissed on the seating wall and planter. That was pretty sick. It would have been nice if LR security came by. They could go sit anywhere else rather than blocking the platform exit and pissing all over it.

[Vicelord John]

Drunk injuns in midtown, imagine that...

[pbenjamin]

Light Rail Gripe:

I took the light rail home from the d-backs game last night (headed towards Montebello/westbound). After leaving the stadium and getting to the Washington/3rd St platform (actually running to the platform to buy my tickets because the train was coming), we got on the train which wasn't too crowded. After getting on we sat and waited and waited and waited... and the train never moved. I really wish I looked at my phone for how long we sat there, but it was literally more than 5 minutes, it could have been more than 10 minutes or even 15 minutes. WTF was that all about??? People in the train started complaining and to top it all off, the train sat there with the doors open letting all the hot air into the train from outside (while no other passengers were getting on for several minutes).

Is that the best Metro can do for its event schedule? Sit there for 10 minutes and let as many people get on as possible, which wasn't really happening? Wouldn't having trains continually running as fast as possible be better, or at least running their normal frequency and not sitting there forever? I really have no clue what the hell was going on, but I know it wasn't a driver change because I was at the front of the front train. Maybe our train was WAY ahead of schedule and they wanted to hold back?

After last night, I started to side with the LR haters out there that say it's nothing more than an amusement ride. It sure didn't feel like public transportation last night... what about the people riding the train that weren't at the game, why did they have to sit there for 10 minutes at a station as the game got out?

The only thing I can think of was there was an accident or something backing things up (but i doubt it because they would have made an announcement... and I didn't see anything once the train started moving). Or, the police and the city's special event traffic control plan fucked up all of the signals to let the millions of cars pour out of Colliers Center and the pedestrians walk across Washington and they made the light rail car just sit there (which is stupid, plus there was about 5 or more signal cycles that went off allowing cars to travel through the signal on Washington, but we never moved).

It was really annoying and something or someone is really stupid when it comes to planning for light rail and downtown event traffic.

Then, when we got off at the encanto stop, there were about 10 drunk indians (not pc? too bad, that's what they were) just hanging out on the platform ramp where you exit the station. They weren't causing much of a rukus, they just asked me who won - they didn't even ask for money, but one of them unzipped his fly directly as we were walking by and as the train was pulling away and pissed on the seating wall and planter. That was pretty sick. It would have been nice if LR security came by. They could go sit anywhere else rather than blocking the platform exit and pissing all over it.

I would be willing to bet that the train you got on was a extra that had been sitting on the siding waiting for the game to end and that it pulled in very shortly after another train had left. At least that was my experience the only time that this happened to me after a game. It makes sense to wait for more people to get on in that context. Doesn't make sense to sit there with the doors open though.

[PHX31]

/\Could be true... but even then, it sat and sat and sat. It wasn't like there was a constant stream of people getting on. After the first 30 seconds when a bunch of people got on, I don't think a single person entered our car in the 10 minutes we were waiting. They could have took off and made the people wait for the next train (if there were many more people), rather than have us wait forever inside the train.

[Vicelord John]

You probably got there juat as thr one before the one you got on left the station. Seeing as they run every ten minutes, the extra one would have had to wait ten minutes to keep the pattern right.

[PHX31]

/\All possible (although I don't know about the previous train)... But it's still stupid as hell. At least the perception. I think people can handle waiting at a station for a train to come, that's normal. But they can't handle sitting and waiting in a train not going anywhere for no apparent reason.

[Vicelord John]

Yeah, once youre on, its time to
go! On the other habd though if you had one train following right behind another, the second one would be empty.

[PHX31]

In a normal case, yeah, but there were plenty of people waiting on the platform to get on the train I ran to catch, only to sit there forever. So that makes me think a train didn't just leave right before I got there.

[gymratmanaz]

At least you had a train. Plus, you sat in AC and not outside sweating. All in all, I think you had it pretty good, compared to what could have happened.

Would you prefer to have stood outside for a train the amount of time you sat in air conditioning?

"Hurry up and wait" in cool air is better than "Where is that train" in hot air.

[PHX31]

/\Wrong... the heat outside is an omnipresent annoyance, but you don't think about it when you're waiting for a train... especially at night. A train sitting there not moving is extremely frustrating and a perceived waste of time. Besides, the doors were open letting in all the hot air anyway.

[glynnjamin]

Sorry PHX but the logistics of this situation make WAY more sense than your selfish view. I watch the trains sit at 1st/Fillmore & at McKinley. Once the game is over, a normal train pulls into the station by AWA and loads up (usually sits for 5-10 mins). Then it leaves and the train at McKinley leaves and passes the one sitting at Fillmore and heads directly to the AWA stop and waits about 5-10 mins. By then the normal train comes by after stopping at 1st/washington and it sits maybe a minute or two at the AWA station and goes along. Finally, the Fillmore train heads out to the AWA station and waits about 10 minutes. So for 40 minutes after the game, you can be almost guaranteed to at least know a train is there and that you will catch it. That's pretty good, even for those of us who stay at the park a little while after the game is over. After that, you have to wait 10-15 minutes for the next scheduled train to come by.

To the rider, the perception that you are "on the train" is always better than "when is the train going to get here"...at least that's my opinion. In Boston, trying to catch the train (not the subway) is a nightmare with a mile long line and a train that may or may not show up every 5-10 minutes. We waited an hour after one game. Valley Metro has to space the trains out because they don't control the traffic and they don't want them to all bunch up on the track because it creates problems when sending 5 trains the same direction towards the end of the line. The waiting also allows people to walk up, and get right on and travel with full cars instead of half-full cars. I know that you were frustrated by the LRT the other night but you have to realize that public transportation does not work for you, it works for everyone. Balancing everyone's needs may leave you waiting an extra 5-10 minutes. They are sorry, but Aunt Sandra can't get down from section 315 as quickly as you can and would like to not wait outside for 25 minutes because 4 trains just pulled up, opened their doors for 30 seconds, and left leaving a huge gap in the service.

[Tfom]

I took thr train from the airport and it went very well. I missed a train while waiting to get to the machine though, I wish there were machines at the airport. Everything else was perfect.
On another note, when I got off at McDowell I almost witnessed the first human casualty. This lady was in such a hurry to get to the bus she was a second from walking in front of the train. She never even looked until the operator hit the horn.

[combusean]

^ I'm waiting for someone to get creamed at Central south of McKinley. The people crossing the tracks alongside the bars there have NO clue.

[Vicelord John]

it'll happen.

Natural selection is the best way for people to learn a lesson. Some drunk idiot will get smashed (no pun intended) and everyone will be a little weary for a while.

[Classical in Phoenix]

I think I was on the same train. I got on as it pulled up and there were all kinds of seats available. My thinking was that they were not going to let a three car train run with the limited number of people that got on as it pulled up, when they knew more people were coming. My car was very full by the time we left.

[gymratmanaz]

I agree Vicelord.... DARWIN at work... Thin the herd!!!

[Leo the Dog]

That train was probably a "stager". No point in moving it right away, bc then the next train could be 20 mins out. They do this at Boston's North Station when the Celtics/Bruins games end. Instead of making people wait on the platform, they'll pull the train car up, load it up, wait, then go, when the next train arrives behind them.

I actually don't see a problem with pedestrians crossing the tracks. Just look at all the other cities with street cars in service. Its not like we have a 3rd rail. But then again, pedestrians here actually wait for a "walk" sign to cross streets.

[PHX31]

I get what everyone is saying. However, I don't think it would be too difficult for them to make an announcement or give information to everyone to let them know they're going to be waiting for a while. I also wish there was some way of keeping the doors closed while waiting, and then opening them via push button from the outside.

[Leo the Dog]

I also wish there was some way of keeping the doors closed while waiting, and then opening them via push button from the outside.

I agree. They installed that push-button, this would be the most ideal situation for its use.

[pbenjamin]

I get what everyone is saying. However, I don't think it would be too difficult for them to make an announcement or give information to everyone to let them know they're going to be waiting for a while. I also wish there was some way of keeping the doors closed while waiting, and then opening them via push button from the outside.

I agree. The time that it happened to me, I was standing by a Metro employee who said, "here comes another train but it is going to sit a while". An announcement to that effect would help.

Meanwhile, I left last night's game during the Roger Clyne victory song and was about a half block south of Washington when I saw a train roll in, one that I was unable to get to. I waited 6 minutes for the next train, it sat maybe two minutes with the door open and departed. You friends were not lubricating the Encanto station when I disembarked.

Oh, and on the trip downtown I heard a smattering of applause from the section to my left. I looked up and there was the very first fare inspector that I had ever encountered. I think he must have given somebody a ticket, hence the applause.

[gymratmanaz]

The three times they have inspected my train, everyone looked around waiting for someone to get caught. Every time everyone was dissapointed that all paid. LOL

[glynnjamin]

I'm always tempted to "cheat" if I am just going one or two stops. Like, from Central Station to AWA ... should I really have to pay the same amount as someone going from Mesa to Christown? Meh. I always just want to jump on & go because I figure the likelihood of being caught within the 2 minutes I'm on the thing is pretty low...but I never do. Mostly because I'm not about to give the stupid Dbacks any of my money.

[glynnjamin]

Interesting concept - creating a package transportation infrastructure using sewers. Nice idea. While PHX isn't that bad when it comes to deliver trucks, SEA is a nightmare during the day and NYC...well, the streets were made for DHL and no one else.

http://www.good.is/post/what-would-happen-if-you-removed-all-delivery-trucks-from-the-streets/

[JKPhx]

Metro: Train or stage? Performing artists finding a home on trains[/B]

Another performing arts troupe has found a stage inside light rail trains.

At 7 p.m. tonight a group of college kids on their summer break will ply their craft on the train. They call themselves Motion in Theatre and perform musicals and skits. Earlier this week they did Rent, Little Shop of Horrors and the Odd Couple.

Jim Mapstead, father of one of the thespians, reported that Metro riders greeted the act with a standing ovation on one train and “polite golf clapping” on another.

Such acts are becoming a characteristically Phoenix thing. My colleague Megan Finnerty will have a story in next week’s paper exploring how the train has become the Valley’s public space, like a mini Times Square. Other cities have more accommodating parks and climates, so people there have more natural places to be seen and to people-watch.
An ASU anthropologist and local arts experts tell Megan the trains are filling that void here.

They may have a point. In March, I blogged about Train Tracks, an outfit that promotes new music bands by posting their live on-board Metro performances on its Website.

Two weeks after Metro opened, a group of improv actors chose to perform pants-free on the trains.

It’s still only a handful of groups, and light rail is still new in the Valley, but already it looks like artists are finding ways to take advantage of the trains, in ways not common elsewhere.

- Sean Holstege


Friday, July 31, 2009 at 12:23 PM

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/lightrailblog/59131[/URL]

Finally!...something original to Phoenix.

[nickkoto]

Metro: Train or stage? Performing artists finding a home on trains[/B]

Another performing arts troupe has found a stage inside light rail trains.

At 7 p.m. tonight a group of college kids on their summer break will ply their craft on the train. They call themselves Motion in Theatre and perform musicals and skits. Earlier this week they did Rent, Little Shop of Horrors and the Odd Couple.

Jim Mapstead, father of one of the thespians, reported that Metro riders greeted the act with a standing ovation on one train and “polite golf clapping” on another.

Such acts are becoming a characteristically Phoenix thing. My colleague Megan Finnerty will have a story in next week’s paper exploring how the train has become the Valley’s public space, like a mini Times Square. Other cities have more accommodating parks and climates, so people there have more natural places to be seen and to people-watch.
An ASU anthropologist and local arts experts tell Megan the trains are filling that void here.

They may have a point. In March, I blogged about Train Tracks, an outfit that promotes new music bands by posting their live on-board Metro performances on its Website.

Two weeks after Metro opened, a group of improv actors chose to perform pants-free on the trains.

It’s still only a handful of groups, and light rail is still new in the Valley, but already it looks like artists are finding ways to take advantage of the trains, in ways not common elsewhere.

- Sean Holstege


Friday, July 31, 2009 at 12:23 PM

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/lightrailblog/59131[/URL]

Finally!...something original to Phoenix.

Fuck that. Some of us have no interest in being part of a captive audience to bad art.

There's nothing original about this (most other cities just learned long ago to cite people for it) and there's nothing cosmopolitan about wailing away on a banjo to 50 other people who are trapped in a rail car with you. It would be one thing to find a spot at the end of a platform, much as people perform in NYC subway stations, but this is no different than bringing a loud boom box on board.

[Vicelord John]

this is no different than bringing a loud boom box on board.

except that you're seeing live talent as opposed to some douche invading your earspace with his rap music off the boombox.

What's great about live performance being on the train is they are only on one car at a time. If you really hate it that much, when the train stops at a platform, get off and go to the next car. If by chance you are on a one car train, you can wait for the next train to come. If it's too much work to do one of those things, then it really isn't bothering you that much.

At least it's not lame like when downtown decided to pay street performers to entertain people on Thursdays. It just seemed so false.

[gymratmanaz]

Being an actor, I think it is cool. Wouldn't carolers during Christmas be fun too!!!???

A great place for ASU's theater department to get some extra exposure too!!!

Maybe no "Nearly Naked Theater"......well, until bar hours.

[HooverDam]

I can see how if I was riding the train every day to/from work something like this could certainly be annoying. Id prefer if they kept it to Fri/Sat nights when Ive noticed the trains generally have a more jovial mood aboard, at least then it seems like you're bothering less people. I would hate to be stuck in a train with some obnoxious band or whatever that I didn't care for, but like Vicelord said, you can move trains (though its a bit annoying to have to do so).

My buddy in St Louis said something they did last year on their trains was the "Metro Prom." Thrown around the same time of year as HS proms hipsters, artsy fartsy types, and whoever all hoped aboard a train at a designated station and rode it all night in their best formal duds, dancing the night away. Something like that would be really fun, though it would be best if it was organized in conjunction w/ Metro so you had a whole 3 car train that was designated for it and not bothering anyone. And maybe they could look the other way on drinking on the train for that night too (though I doubt it) if people maybe each paid a few extra bucks to help cover clean up costs.

[nickkoto]

except that you're seeing live talent as opposed to some douche invading your earspace with his rap music off the boombox.

What difference does that make? Whether it's a boom box or a set of bagpipes or their own cakeholes, it all comes down to personal taste and whatever medium they choose is completely irrelevant to a captive audience that doesn't want to hear it.


What's great about live performance being on the train is they are only on one car at a time. If you really hate it that much, when the train stops at a platform, get off and go to the next car. If by chance you are on a one car train, you can wait for the next train to come. If it's too much work to do one of those things, then it really isn't bothering you that much.

Oh hell no. The primary purpose of these trains is to move people around, not to serve as a mobile auditorium for anyone with an an accoustic guitar. Maybe I'd feel different if these 1-car trains weren't so prevalent, but nobody should have to choose between baking on the platform for an extra 10-20 minutes or putting up with some noise-polluting attention whore to get to their destination on time.

Go to the open mic night at a coffee bar if you really want to see them perform. There's usually plenty of empty seats.

[PhxPavilion]

This is by no means a "Phoenix thing". There are groups who have been doing these types of things all over the country for a long while. Just within the last year or two I can remember seeing articles on similar events taking place in San Francisco and New York. There was a mass zombie invasion in SF and I found an improv group's website (can't remember the name) showing all types of public theatre from the no pants on the subway to 100 people walking into a Best Buy all looking like employees with the blue shirts and all.

[NIXPHX77]

^^^
the troupe in NY is called Improv Everywhere. they have a large contingent of "agents" pulling off these really funny pranks. they have some good videos of it on youtube i think.

i think it's all part of big city life - panhandlers, street (or train) musicians, crowds, etc - it comes with the territory.

[Vicelord John]

the one of them dressing up like best buy employees and sending like 100 people into a best buy is really awesome.

[exit2lef]

Heard one of these groups perfomring show tunes while riding as part of the Night Rail event last Friday night. It really added to the festive mood that often prevails on light rail on weekend evenings. I agree that it would be inappropriate during rush hour, but on weekends, it's a great way to build community and showcase and bands and other performers. More, please.

[PhxPavilion]

^^^
the troupe in NY is called Improv Everywhere. they have a large contingent of "agents" pulling off these really funny pranks. they have some good videos of it on youtube i think.

Yeah that's it, funny stuff. They have a bunch of videos on their website as well.

[HooverDam]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2009/08/04/20090804smfreeway0804.html

Plan to extend Loop 202 mulled
It calls for 8-lane freeway through Ahwatukee and South Mountain preserve
3 comments by Cathryn Creno - Aug. 4, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
The latest plan for the extension of Loop 202, which would connect Chandler with west Phoenix, calls for an eight-lane freeway through the Ahwatukee Foothills and the South Mountain preserve.

The new proposal by the Maricopa Association of Governments for the South Mountain Freeway, which would extend 22 miles from Interstate 10 at Pecos Road to I-10 and 59th Avenue, would cost $1.9 billion, said MAG transportation director Eric Anderson. Construction could begin as soon as 2017, he said.

The figure is about $570 million less than earlier projections, he said.

The latest plan for the controversial freeway was drafted by MAG staff last month.

Anderson said members of the MAG Regional Council and the MAG Transportation Policy Committee, composed of Valley officials and citizens appointed by the Arizona State Legislature, have copies of the draft and will meet for a discussion in October.

Earlier this year, MAG planners had proposed building a 45-mile-per-hour parkway for the section of the proposed South Mountain Freeway through the Ahwatukee Foothills section of Phoenix and part of the South Mountain preserve. Prior to that, a 10-lane freeway had been planned.

Many Ahwatukee residents oppose any sort of extension of the 202 through their community and South Mountain, saying the traffic will bring noise and pollution and possibly harm wildlife in the park.

"Trust me, if they are proposing eight lanes, it eventually will be 10," said Ahwatukee resident and longtime freeway opponent Jim Jochim. "And they are still planning to blast through South Mountain."

The freeway also has become a campaign issue in a four-way race for the Phoenix City Council's District 6 seat.

But state and county officials say the extension of the 202 is needed to divert traffic from overburdened roads further north and to create an additional link between the southeast and southwest Valley.

The new proposal calls for the freeway to have three 65-mile-per-hour freeway lanes and one high-occupancy vehicle lane in each direction, Anderson said.

Exits would be at 23rd Avenue, 17th Avenue, Desert Foothills Parkway, 24th Street and 40th Street, he said.

Plans also call for the construction of a path for bicycles, pedestrians and equestrians between 17th and 51st avenues in the South Mountain preserve.

"The path will provide better access to South Mountain than they have today," Anderson said.

Funds for the project are to come from three sources: A half-cent regional sales tax and state and federal highway funds, he said.

If the MAG committees approve the new plan, it will be forwarded to the Arizona Department of Transportation, which will study the environmental impact for the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration.

Timothy Tait, ADOT community-relations director, said his agency will evaluate whether the proposed path of the freeway would harm any endangered species or sites that are considered sacred to Native Americans.

If such sites exist, he said, the freeway path most likely would be changed. He said it is unlikely that that plans for the extension would be canceled entirely.



Is this plan cheaper than the parkway idea? I think thats the idea i like in theory the most. It brings the least amount of vehicles and pollution through the area but still provides a truck route around town which seems to be the entire projects main purpose.

Funny though, $1.9B for this thing so few will likely use and Im sure there won't be much of an uproar but spend it on the train and people flip out. If the parkway idea is cheaper (and it seems to me it would be since less pavement) how about we go with that and toss the difference at Light Rail?

[HX_Guy]

A parkway doesn't seem as efficient with a 45 MPH speed limit though, no? If it's main purpose is to be a truck route, will trucks want to get off the 65 MPH freeway to use a 45 MPH parkway with stop lights?

[CANUC]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2009/08/04/20090804smfreeway0804.html
It brings the least amount of vehicles and pollution through the area but still provides a truck route around town which seems to be the entire projects main purpose.

I have zero sympathy for these NIMBY’s. The first home I bought was in Laveen and every builder we visited had a clear as day sketch of their development and its relation to the proposed freeway. Hell some even tried to use it as a selling point “in just a couple of years you’ll have quick access to a freeway”. None of the developers I visited and I mean none showed any aerial shots with their developments even remotely straddling the path of this freeway. They all had clear pictures of where this thing was going. It has been part of the freeway system since the 80’s.

The arrogance of the builders in Ahwatukee and the idiot buyers who knowingly bought homes near or in the path of this freeway is amazing. They have no one to blame but themselves. Also the Gila River Indian community can screw themselves as well. They weren’t even willing to discuss the possibility of even discussing this freeway going across their land. It was a – don’t even bring it up – type of attitude. Now they want to have input on its development? Their complaining that the portion of South Mountain Freeway that will be blasted is “sacred”! Screw them if they were so worried about the mountain then they should’ve been a little more open minded. I say build the damn thing now rather than later. If it’s going to alleviate traffic through downtown then don’t wait until 2017, start breaking dirt tomorrow.

[TAZ4ate0]

Good point HX.

If this thing gets built (in our lifetime), it should be constructed as a freeway. Just like the rest of loop 202.

[pbenjamin]

This freeway would have two basic impacts, one good, one bad. 1) It would allow through traffic (both trucks and passenger vehicles) to bypass downtown. 2) It would encourage sprawl by enabling people who want to live in Buckeye to commute to Chandler more easily. Building a freeway link from I-8 to I-10 through Gila Bend would accomplish the first one (and much more cheaply) without the second one.

[glynnjamin]

Simple solution - make it a toll freeway. Trucks (and commuters) will pay to use it to bypass traffic through CenPho, but it should discourage sprawl from building around it.

[ljbuild]

I have zero sympathy for these NIMBY’s. The first home I bought was in Laveen and every builder we visited had a clear as day sketch of their development and its relation to the proposed freeway. Hell some even tried to use it as a selling point “in just a couple of years you’ll have quick access to a freeway”. None of the developers I visited and I mean none showed any aerial shots with their developments even remotely straddling the path of this freeway. They all had clear pictures of where this thing was going. It has been part of the freeway system since the 80’s.

The arrogance of the builders in Ahwatukee and the idiot buyers who knowingly bought homes near or in the path of this freeway is amazing. They have no one to blame but themselves. Also the Gila River Indian community can screw themselves as well. They weren’t even willing to discuss the possibility of even discussing this freeway going across their land. It was a – don’t even bring it up – type of attitude. Now they want to have input on its development? Their complaining that the portion of South Mountain Freeway that will be blasted is “sacred”! Screw them if they were so worried about the mountain then they should’ve been a little more open minded. I say build the damn thing now rather than later. If it’s going to alleviate traffic through downtown then don’t wait until 2017, start breaking dirt tomorrow.

HELLO SOMEBODY!!
You hit the nail right on the coffin and I would also like to whack a bunch of nails thru those ahwatukee morons. If they hate freeways then why did they move where one HAS BEEN PLANNED FOR OVER 20 YEARS !!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Furthermore:
This was part of the prop 400. THIS WAS VOTED FOR and passed.
Why ADOT is still negotiating is mind blowing. If they wait till 2017 then it will be TWICE MORE EXPENSIVE by then just as it is now compared to if they had built it as scheduled and not have been intimadated by some pesky ahwatukee morons.
As for breaking dirt tomorrow, as far as im concerned, the dirt should have been "ALREADY PAVED OVER". What you said about the Indian tribe is dead on. They dont want it so ADOT needs to stop trying to haggle with them
and get this project started on the already planned alignment along pecos.

As far as the schools and the ahwatukee morons that live along the path, the state should just build as wall as high enough so that passers by dont have to look at their dumb-asses. :cheers:

[Leo the Dog]

Actually because of the global recession, the price to build freeways has dropped significantly, (contractors are also lowering their bids to get any kind of awards too).

I used to live in Ahwatukee and I have no problems with freeways at all, in fact, I strongly supported the 202. Now that I don't live in Ahwatukee, I'm actually in favor of the 202 project getting scrapped and here's why: Those dollars could be redistributed to LR operations and extensions, the Phx Bypass would, bypass Central Phoenix/Downtown. Passer bys are more likely to drive around Phoenix on their way to CA instead of through it to possibly make stops to check out "America's 5th Largest City". If those dollars were spent on rapid transit (LR) it would promote urban development, TOD etc...

It would also only promote more suburban sprawl of Laveen and SW portions of Phx Metro. What do we want on this forum? Inner-City development and DT revitalization, not suburban cookie-cutter, single family, strip-mall, fast food havens.

[TAZ4ate0]

This is sort of a random question. Has anyone seen any diagrams or renderings of what the new sky train at Sky Harbour will look like? I mean the train itself, not the layout model of how its going to run through and around the airport. I have done some online searches, but have had no luck. As I understand Bombardier Transportation is going to be the system provider and operator.

[HX_Guy]

Haven't seen any of the actual trains, just of the stations and such.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

Well if you go here...
http://phoenix.gov/skyharborairport/about-sky-harbor/automated-train.html
...there is a picture of a train-like vehicle on the right side of the page, and in the image, on the train, it says PHX and has a symbol of the Phoenix City Emblem. That could be it, couldn't it?

[HX_Guy]

Phoenix transit ridership up 6 percent
Phoenix Business Journal

Bad times for the economy appear to have been good news for Valley Metro.

The Valley’s public transit organization saw bus ridership grow 6 percent from July 2008 through June 2009. With light rail riders added in, total public transit use was up 15 percent this fiscal year compared with last year.

In all, nearly 71.3 million passengers boarded Valley Metro buses and light rail cars in the past year -- up from about 61.9 million from July 2007 to June 2008. Since the Valley light rail system opened last December, roughly 5.6 million people have used it.

“Certainly, in the last six months, overall transit ridership has been boosted by the new Metro light rail service,” said David Boggs, executive director of Valley Metro. “We now have a complete transit system with bus and rail connections, getting more Valley residents and visitors out of their cars.”

Statistics from Valley Metro also show that more riders are using bicycles to complete their transit trips, with 1.5 million bikes carried on public transit in the past year, an increase of 9.4 percent from 2008.

[TAZ4ate0]

Well if you go here...
http://phoenix.gov/skyharborairport/about-sky-harbor/automated-train.html
...there is a picture of a train-like vehicle on the right side of the page, and in the image, on the train, it says PHX and has a symbol of the Phoenix City Emblem. That could be it, couldn't it.

Well gee...I guess that could be it then. :D Thanks.

I'm looking forward to seeing the elevated train moving through the airport. It's going to be cool. I like how the stations look too.

edit: I didn't see this at first, near the bottom of the page.

From the website:
The photo above right is a rendering of the train, the design is still pending.

[PHX31]

This is taken from that article Plinko posted in the Phx dev thread:

The empty bus stop


A set of lonely signs along Interstate 10 near Third Street and Third Avenue used to point to an Express Bus Terminal - one that was never used, never finished.

The terminal, which cost $9.4 million to add to the I-10 tunnel, was supposed to serve express buses to the city's outlying areas. Commuters would take elevators from the Margaret T. Hance Park down to the terminal. Then buses would leave the terminal and speed along the carpool lanes along I-10.

At the time, though,, there was not enough demand for express bus service. A few years ago, the city looked at the possibility of finishing the terminal, now that bus service might be coupled with the light-rail line.

If they do decide to use it, however, they will have to make new signs. The old ones fell down years ago.

Wouldn't it make a whole hell of a lot of sense to bring this express bus terminal online? You could possibly create a new light rail station at Hance Park (or hopefully people would walk from the Roosevelt Station or McDowell Rd Station) and then have a ton of express buses running up and down the freeways during rush hour. This would be infinitely cheaper than building a bunch of "commuter light rail lines" they are planning now along all of the freeways. They could then spend the money on some real light rail lines on the surface streets through the various neighborhoods and portions of the city... or even streetcars in areas. I just think the light rail lines going down the middle of I-10 (and the other freeways) are a waste of money. Using this express bus station would be pretty sweet and they could totally expand the RAPID bus system.

[HooverDam]

^Agreed 9000%! Just take the Right of Ways on the 10 that have been designated for transit and make them bus only lanes. Use big ass busses (like the MetroLink ones in Mesa) and run those suckers west on the 10. Save LRT for streets and TOD!

[Sonoran_Dweller]

Well it looks like Tempe finally found a tenant for the Tempe Transportation Center Bike Station. I know that the City of Tempe wanted Tempe Bicycle, but they wouldn't do it. So now it is going to be The Bicycle Cellar.

http://www.tempe.gov/tim/Bike/pdfs/bicyclecellar.pdf

http://www.thebicyclecellar.com/

Looks really cool. Really benefits those who are around Tempe/ASU.

[PHX31]

Phoenix to Tokyo non-stop in a few years! Now we need to market relaxing spas and resorts and open spaces of the beautiful desert to those crazy cramped HUGE metropolis city-dwelling Japanese travellers. As well as pimp the Grand Canyon, you know, the normal stuff.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2009/08/12/20090812biz-usairways0812-ON.html

US Airways today announced plans to shrink in New York and grow in Washington, D.C. as part of a deal with Delta Air Lines.

The transaction is also expected to bring nonstop service between Phoenix and Tokyo in a few years.

The Tempe-based carrier this morning said it is swapping aircraft landing and takeoff slots with Delta. US Airways plans to transfer 125 pairs of slots at LaGuardia Airport to Delta. In return, Delta will give US Airways 42 pairs of slots at Reagan Washington National Airport. Each pair of slots is good for a round-trip flight.
US Airways also gets the rights to expand to Tokyo and Sao Paulo, Brazil.

The company said the deal is "cash neutral" and that it will improve its profits by more than $75 million a year in part because Washington is a better fit than New York, where it is a small player, and Delta is big and growing. US Airways said in a memo to employees that its Reagan National operations already make money.

The deal will result in the loss of an estimated 300 jobs at US Airways' Piedmont subsidiary, which operates its commuter flights at LaGuardia. It is eliminating 26 commuter destinations out of LaGuardia as a result of the slot transfer.

In Washington, the airline said it expects to add about 100 employees.

[Leo the Dog]

Tokyo to PHX nonstop is a great idea. The Japanese, I'm sure are curious about the desert and wide-opens lands of the western US. They'd bring alotta tourist $$ into the state for sure and who knows, maybe conduct a little business while here, invest in Phoenix etc...

[TAZ4ate0]

The Japanese, Chinese, and most people from the Orient are fascinated with the American southwest. They just have a misconception of how it (the southwest) really is today. Many of them who come here to visit, still expect to see cowboys and indians running around shooting at each other, horses hitched at the local watering hole (saloon), and shootouts in the street at high noon. LOL

OK, I am exaggerating just a little, but I was chatting with a cabbie not too long ago, and he had some customers from over there (Japan), asking where all the cowboys and indians were. He said they were seriously expecting to see some of that.

Anyway, good news about a non-stop flight from Phoenix to Tokyo.

[HooverDam]

^Its not just the Japanese/Asians. When I went to St Louis for college and people asked where I was from and I said "Arizona" on multiple occasions there next question was "Do you own a horse?" As if Phoenix wasn't a bigger city than St Louis- crazy.

[PHX31]

/\Yeah, I remember back in the day (not lately) someone from back east was semi-surprised that we had paved roads and weren't all riding around horses.

It amazes me that people in this day and age could be so self-centric that they know nothing about other places and would have the notion of something so absurd.

P.S. John Wayne has been historically popular in Japan. All his westerns likely have given the Japanese a pretty romantic view of the southwest.

[exit2lef]

Can someone explain how a swap of slots at LGA and DCA is going to result in nonstop PHX-NRT service? I keep hearing this claim repeated, but can't find the reasoning behind the conclusion.

[mwadswor]

^Its not just the Japanese/Asians. When I went to St Louis for college and people asked where I was from and I said "Arizona" on multiple occasions there next question was "Do you own a horse?" As if Phoenix wasn't a bigger city than St Louis- crazy.

I got the same question from a cab driver in Dublin.

So, We've got Asia, North America, and Europe. Anyone have a similar story from South America, Africa, or Australia?

[admdavid]

Can someone explain how a swap of slots at LGA and DCA is going to result in nonstop PHX-NRT service? I keep hearing this claim repeated, but can't find the reasoning behind the conclusion.

As part of the deal to swap slots, Delta is conveying a couple Tokyo slots to USAirways which will (maybe) lead to the direct flight from PHX.

[Tempe_Duck]

As part of the deal to swap slots, Delta is conveying a couple Tokyo slots to USAirways which will (maybe) lead to the direct flight from PHX.

The biggest problem is that US Airwasy currently doesn't have any aircraft that can make a direct flight from PHX-NRT. They are looking at getting some Airbus A340s, but they can't make it with the A320, which are the Airbus equivalent of the 737. The rest of the long range plane are with US East (old USAir), and won't be used in the west.

[mwadswor]

As part of the deal to swap slots, Delta is conveying a couple Tokyo slots to USAirways which will (maybe) lead to the direct flight from PHX.

As I understand it, they got a couple of spots in Brazil too, although I haven't yet heard where in Brazil. Thinking a little bit in advance, but those spots'll be serious money in 2014 when the World Cup's in Brazil.

[vertex]

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I'm afraid that US Airways is positioning itself for a merger. The fact that they're abandoning a strategic market like this tells me that they couldn't make it work, and that it was more valuable to a competitor like Delta. Goodbye Northeast Shuttle service.

In return, they do firm up their service to DC, but will it really mean anything? Perhaps, but only to another competitor/suitor, like American.

PHX-NRT won't work. Like Duck said, they don't have the aircraft to make it work. Again, slots like this one and Charlotte-Rio are worth more to others than they are to US.

To me, it looks like US is collecting a set of assets that don't really sync with company strategy. But they would be of great use to others, at the right price.

Doug Parker has been preaching industry consolidation for years. He may just be acting out on his self-fulfilled prophecy.

[Tempe_Duck]

As I understand it, they got a couple of spots in Brazil too, although I haven't yet heard where in Brazil. Thinking a little bit in advance, but those spots'll be serious money in 2014 when the World Cup's in Brazil.

San Paulo. The talk is that they would fly from either Cincinnati or Philly.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

The biggest problem is that US Airwasy currently doesn't have any aircraft that can make a direct flight from PHX-NRT. They are looking at getting some Airbus A340s, but they can't make it with the A320, which are the Airbus equivalent of the 737. The rest of the long range plane are with US East (old USAir), and won't be used in the west.

Well according to WolframAlpha (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tokyo+to+phoenix) a Tokyo-Phoenix flight is 5,790 miles, about 10 and 1/2 hours long.

And according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways#Fleet) US Air is getting several planes in 2015 that goes over 8,000 miles, A350 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350#Specifications).
Also according to Wikipedia US Air has several planes currently that could go the distance from Phoenix to Tokyo (B767-200ER (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767-200ER#Specifications), A330-200 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A330-300#Specifications)).

[Sonoran_Dweller]

Also we are getting an international flight in December, to Jamaica. It is not as big as Tokyo, but it is international none-the-less.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=196799&p=irol-newsArticle_print&ID=1317159&highlight=

[mwadswor]

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I'm afraid that US Airways is positioning itself for a merger. The fact that they're abandoning a strategic market like this tells me that they couldn't make it work, and that it was more valuable to a competitor like Delta. Goodbye Northeast Shuttle service.

In return, they do firm up their service to DC, but will it really mean anything? Perhaps, but only to another competitor/suitor, like American.

PHX-NRT won't work. Like Duck said, they don't have the aircraft to make it work. Again, slots like this one and Charlotte-Rio are worth more to others than they are to US.

To me, it looks like US is collecting a set of assets that don't really sync with company strategy. But they would be of great use to others, at the right price.

Doug Parker has been preaching industry consolidation for years. He may just be acting out on his self-fulfilled prophecy.

I never would have thought about it that way, but this does make a degree of sense.

I'm not sure I buy it though. I'm not sure what's so difficult/expensive about New York, but US Airways will certainly not be the first or only major airline to have limited service there (Southwest).

US Airways has been downsizing for a while, and while the landing slots part of this deal may be "revenue neutral," they are still dumping 200 employees (-300 in New York, +100 in Washington), that's a lot of money. Not to mention, they are dumping more slots (meaning less money on landing fees not even considering that it's probably cheaper to land in DC than in New York) in New York than they are picking up in DC in exchange for the international destinations, which they won't have to use (saving money on flights and landing fees) for several years. To me, it just looks like a big budget cutting move.

The main part about this argument that gives me pause though is that US Airways is involved. You're right, Doug Parker always seems to be "preaching industry consolidation." However, that's not necessarily a bad thing. He may preach industry consolidation, but I'm pretty sure he likes to be on the buying end. US Airways could be reducing future redundancies in a very expensive part of the country in preparation for taking over another airline.

[mwadswor]

Also we are getting an international flight in December, to Jamaica. It is not as big as Tokyo, but it is international none-the-less.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=196799&p=irol-newsArticle_print&ID=1317159&highlight=

:tup: having both is obviously ideal, but I think I'd rather go lie on a beach in Jamaica than Tokyo :cheers:

[Vicelord John]

fuck that. Tokyo is awesome, Jamaica is the ghetto.

[HooverDam]

fuck that. Tokyo is awesome, Jamaica is the ghetto.

Id rather go to Jamaica any day myself. In fact its on the top of my list as far as international travel goes, and no, I'm not a stoner.

But I know Im probably in the minority in that POV on a cities forum. But I like Jamaican food and first wave ska, so going and hanging out with all the Rudies would be fun for me.

[Tempe_Duck]

Well according to WolframAlpha (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tokyo+to+phoenix) a Tokyo-Phoenix flight is 5,790 miles, about 10 and 1/2 hours long.

And according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways#Fleet) US Air is getting several planes in 2015 that goes over 8,000 miles, A350 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350#Specifications).
Also according to Wikipedia US Air has several planes currently that could go the distance from Phoenix to Tokyo (B767-200ER (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767-200ER#Specifications), A330-200 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A330-300#Specifications)).

Yes they are scheduled to get the A350, but that plan is still in the infant stages of development who know when that plan might get here, plus that still 3 years after the Tokyo flight is predicted to start up.

The planes that can make that distance are from the old USAir (USEast as it is called inside the company) and with the unions and pilot seniority list still a major issue, its not going to happen that they would move those planes to the USWest and fly them to Tokyo. Plus they are already on certain routes. They need new planes to fly that route. It could happen, but there are numerous things that need to happen first and that not withstanding what vertex said.

[Vicelord John]

going and hanging out with all the Rudies would be fun for me.

until someone decided to steal whitey's stuff.