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urbandaddy

Jan 15, 2007, 9:44 PM

So with all the new developments going up and less and less parking in the downtown core available, where are there still cheap (maybe even free) alternatives near or in downtown to park?

freeweed

Jan 15, 2007, 9:49 PM

So with all the new developments going up and less and less parking in the downtown core available, where are there still cheap (maybe even free) alternatives near or in downtown to park?

Beltline, Park 'n' Ride stations. Some of the parking on 9th Ave is still *relatively* cheap.

I assume you're talking during 9-5, M-F though (as every other time is still basically cheap), in which case the answer is "nowhere".

edzed

Jan 15, 2007, 10:00 PM

The surface lots in the east villiage are still quite cheap, iirc 7-9 dollars a day. These are the lots between 6th and 9th Ave and 2 and 5th street. Just hop on LRT and its a free ride in the core.

mersar

Jan 15, 2007, 10:14 PM

And in terms of the Park and Rides, Banff Trail is the easiest to find stalls most days in the NW (Dalhousie is usually full by 7am and Brentwood by 8am in my experience), otherwise as was mentioned the east village lots are probably the cheapest in the core (and likely fill up quite quickly as well)

IntotheWest

Jan 15, 2007, 10:58 PM

There is no where cheap in the beltline anymore.

I work at the IBM building, and lots are disappearing quickly...just a couple years ago, parking at the IBM building was about $8-9/day. Then, it was across the street for about $11-12/day (which is now $17). As recently as Oct, I was parking where (I think) Keynote is going up for about $9/day - but that lot is gone. The one across from the Seed is $14/day now (upped a $1 since the Keynote lot is closed :-)

Oh - and I paid $33/day at the Westin downtown about a month ago.

Though, this isn't necessarily a bad thing - if the city could just expand the C-train quicker.

Wooster

Jan 15, 2007, 11:00 PM

The overall numbers of public stalls is going up with office development. However, the ratio of workers to stalls is shrinking with time.

It is a good strategy to limit parking because you can't really jam many more cars into downtown anymore. The roads are beyond capacity. The alternative is to bring people by transit, which of course is way behind too. Time to speed up LRT expansion!!

Fiveway

Jan 16, 2007, 12:10 AM

I totally agree. The answer isn't more parking, it's less cars.

Claeren

Jan 16, 2007, 12:23 AM

Except that the high parking rates is just driving everyone from the core - so that you get more cars, they are just spread ALL over the city instead of focused in the core.

I cannot believe that some of you who seem to have a good grasp of cause and effect and general planning actually think this policy is a good idea.

The city would have been FAR better off not limiting the parking stalls but instead just rallying to tax the ones that got built/exist. Then they take those profits and plow them into LRT.

The way it is now just leads to FAT FAT FAT profits for a bunch of private operators, no parking in the core for everyday people, and business increasingly looking to move out to the far suburbs to attract the talent they need who merely want parking v. no parking OR good LRT service.

The parking rates and availability in the core is the type of factor that will take DECADES to fix and could potentially be 'the straw that broke the camels back' in terms of city affordability and competitiveness for non-oil and gas players. It will hallow out downtown and/or stunt its growth over the next 50 years dramatically.

At this rate, there will be 50M sq-ft of new suburban space built before then is another 10M of core space built. The viability of each proposed big downtown proposal chipped away by the many smaller suburban projects popping up ALL over the city. And we have just seen the beginning of it...

And why can't a bunch of suburbanites sit in traffic all morning and night? LET THEM. At least downtown is not hallowed out when they all decide to go work elsewhere in the city.

Claeren.

Rob D

Jan 16, 2007, 12:55 AM

So with all the new developments going up and less and less parking in the downtown core available, where are there still cheap (maybe even free) alternatives near or in downtown to park?

:jester:

CorporateWhore

Jan 16, 2007, 1:20 AM

i know a few free places to park in the core, but you'll have to put a gun to my head before i give those up!

frinkprof

Jan 16, 2007, 1:37 AM

The city would have been FAR better off not limiting the parking stalls but instead just rallying to tax the ones that got built/exist. Then they take those profits and plow them into LRT.

That would be a hell of an idea. Bronconnier is breaking down the province's door to get a continuous revenue stream for infrastructure. Why not meet them halfway and create one by doing something like this?

Suburban office space wouldn't be horrible if it was TOD or at least close to an LRT line, part of a mixed-use development, or both. At least the city is somewhat ahead of the game by looking to develop the areas around future LRT stations.

Anyway, back to the main topic. I think a few (key word) of the remaining surface lots should be developed into high capacity parkades, ideally with some vision for making them as aesthetically pleasing as possible.

Bassic Lab

Jan 16, 2007, 1:58 AM

I don't see parking in the core as being a real problem as far as long stay is concerned. Road capacity is not going to grow so the current situation where parking capacity is increasing with each new development but decreasing on a per capita basis is more than fine. The real problem lies with short stay parking. People that might want to do some shopping in the afternoon, when road capacity isn't a problem, are the ones that have problems. Park and rides are also reasonably full, so options are not really there.

It is the retailers that are complaining about this, not really the corporations. I don't think office space going to the suburbs is really linked to parking availability as much as cost and the growing distances, suburban office space just makes more sense with a city that has a footprint this big.

Wooster

Jan 16, 2007, 5:10 AM

There is an idea in the Centre City Plan to increase taxes on surface lots and vacant land. I like your idea Claeren of putting a tax or surcharge on parking lots to be directed towards transit. Can you imagine if $2 out of every time someone parked downtown went to transit, we could build the West Line in no time!

^ I agree that the short term stay parking needs to be addressed badly.

Riise

Jan 16, 2007, 6:56 AM

Can you imagine if $2 out of every time someone parked downtown went to transit...

I can imagine so much that I probably won't be able to go to sleep tonight because I'll still be thinking of all the cool projects the city could complete. Any way, it is a solid idea that should be considered. :tup:

Rusty van Reddick

Jan 16, 2007, 4:19 PM

Except that the high parking rates is just driving everyone from the core
Claeren.

...which is why we have the lowest office vacancy rate in the entire world.

Try again.

IntotheWest

Jan 16, 2007, 5:47 PM

...which is why we have the lowest office vacancy rate in the entire world.

Try again.

I agree - I think there will be some driven from the core, but equally, there will be people attracted to live in the core (or closer to good transit). High parking rates haven't scared off people in other cities.

LordMandeep

Jan 16, 2007, 8:50 PM

that was a very dumb thing to say.

However i found it a pain to find parking in downtown Calgary. New York isn't to bad we parked anywhere and never were bothered, its only when you are trying to fing legit parking spots. If i tried the same in Toronto i would have gotten like $300 in parking fines. Man here they fine people like mad.

As the city gets denser the lots in its core will dissapear.
My dad used to say in the early 80d's parking in dowtown was dirt cheap and you could park anymore. Try it now during the work day and its very hard.

lebeaubuyter

Feb 9, 2007, 4:15 AM

just ride the train but don't pay for a transit ticket... it mitigates the frustration

dubiousmike

Feb 9, 2007, 4:24 AM

I was having drinks with one of my friends who works for a staffing agency. And she was telling me that filling positions downtown is just as, if not more, difficult than filling positions in the sticks, simply because of the parking and accessibility issues.

Shit tons of Calgarians don't want to work downtown. It can be a pain in the ass, logistically speaking.

I don't blame 'em. Every day on my way to work I see C-Trains packed like sardine cans. People standing like that for 15? 20? 30 minutes at a time? Nobody should have to deal with that shit everyday. That sucks.

mersar

Feb 9, 2007, 4:24 AM

Until you get caught and handed a $150 fine. It happens. The other day 2 transit officers boarded the train as I was heading from vic park back to the NW, and went through the car asking to see tickets before the train got to Olympic Plaza. At least 2 or 3 people got caught. I've been seeing more and more presence lately by transit security, and every time they are ticketing people.

Canterra

Feb 9, 2007, 5:05 AM

Even my parking rates have gone up.
$110 a year to park my bike underground in canterra but I can't complain. It's secure, heated and I can leave my bike there all week if I get too wimpy about the weather.

As far as parking cars go I like the idea another forumer brought up about attended parking lots providing discounts for car poolers.

ummagumma66

Feb 9, 2007, 5:12 AM

the CPA is attempting a pilot in which most (or all) meters in the core will be removed and replaced by pay and display type machines, the programme will most likely be called ALTpay, they are exploring pay via credit card, and cell phone, its believed they can create some 200-500 new stalls in the core.

mersar

Feb 9, 2007, 5:27 AM

Calgarian

Feb 9, 2007, 5:36 AM

Didn't they just raise the price of a parking meter to $4/hr?

If you don't want to pay to park downtown, just move downtown.

Surrealplaces

Feb 9, 2007, 8:27 PM

My big gripe about DT parking is the lack of short term parking. Everytim I ever go downtown it's impossible to find a place to park.

Here's what I would do:

1) Take one of the city owned parkades and convert it to carpool parking only. Only cars with 3 or more people can park in the designated parkade.

2) Take the other city owned parkades and change the rates to help out short term parking.......example, the first 3 hours, it's 3 dollars an hour.... 10 dollars an hour for each hour past the three.

I realize the city needs to improve the LRT in conjunction with downsizing parking, but they could still look at carpooling parking incentives. Does anyone know if the city has ever looked into this?

ummagumma66

Feb 10, 2007, 4:56 AM

From what I'd heard the pilot was over last fall and they decided they were going to push ahead full steam on deploying the machines this year. Overall its a good idea, convience by paying by cell would be extremely nice (no more needing to run out and feed the meter if your running behind), and it should free up quite a number of spaces.

we were briefed in December that the pilot will run sometime in the spring, there was no pilot for the ALTpay in the fall, the pay and display system pilot ran a few years ago, and they wanted to do the whole pay by cell thing but the tech was not there yet, now its believed its where the system is feasable, also autochalk (the CPA car with all the cameras) will be making a return very soon, the whole switch may take 3 years.

[QUOTE=Surrealplaces;2622248]
2) Take the other city owned parkades and change the rates to help out short term parking.......example, the first 3 hours, it's 3 dollars an hour.... 10 dollars an hour for each hour past the three.
[QUOTE]

to answer this point, the max you will be allowed to stay in a stall will be 2 hours, there may be a 1/2 hour extension but no longer (the extension may cost as much as the 2 hours did). its hoped that this will free up the parking in the core, and those who choose to sit all day may get anywhere from $90 to $200 (if the new by-law goes into effect) in fines a day.

dubiousmike

Feb 10, 2007, 5:12 AM

My girlfriend is always alluding to this super-secret free parking space she has in the west end. But it's all very hush-hush.

Parking in downtown Calgary is some serious cloak and dagger shit, apparently.

I walk to work, so I'm out of the loop.

ummagumma66

Feb 10, 2007, 6:17 AM

soon her "super-secret" parking space will be gone...try to break it to her gently...she will be crushed I'm sure, there will be no more "dead zones"...

Surrealplaces

Feb 10, 2007, 6:52 AM

to answer this point, the max you will be allowed to stay in a stall will be 2 hours, there may be a 1/2 hour extension but no longer (the extension may cost as much as the 2 hours did). its hoped that this will free up the parking in the core, and those who choose to sit all day may get anywhere from $90 to $200 (if the new by-law goes into effect) in fines a day.

That would be fine by me. If I'm going downtown for the day, I'd just as soon cab it or take the train. But if you're going downtown for a 1 hour meeting it's often far more feasible to drive.

My girlfriend is always alluding to this super-secret free parking space she has in the west end. But it's all very hush-hush.

Parking in downtown Calgary is some serious cloak and dagger shit, apparently.

They could've worked Calgary's parking situation into a Seinfeld episode. :)

Stephen Ave

Feb 11, 2007, 10:05 PM

Calgary's parking situation is terrible, especially in the winter. I like the idea of a parkade dedicated to people who carpool. I think that idea has been tried somewhere already. I'm sure I heard about that somewhere.

frinkprof

Feb 11, 2007, 10:18 PM

I like the idea of a parkade dedicated to carpoolers. However, it would have to come with some carpool lanes on the major roads going downtown. It would be good to see a big advertising campaign for carpooling as well.

m0nkyman

Feb 12, 2007, 4:26 AM

Went for another walk this week. This time, my neighbourhood of Oliver

This is not intended to show how pretty Edmonton is. My eyes were bleeding at times. I love Edmonton's people, and there are many cool places. The buildings... the architecture... the city planning... well.... Edmonton, you're suffering a variant of abused woman's syndrome....

But there is hope. The north edge and Jasper East could be done right, and must be done right.

We'll start our walk at my house. Here's a shot looking West.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00103-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00103.JPG)

And here's one looking east over my roof.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00104-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00104.JPG)

And straight east
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00105-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00105.JPG)

Looking south.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00106-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00106_1.JPG)

Looking North
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00107-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00107.JPG)

And now, we start walking Note the 'faux' fort.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00108-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00108.JPG)

121st Street, with some beautiful houses converted to business.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00109-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00109.JPG)

The double line of trees. In the summer this is spectacular.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00110-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00110.JPG)

The old brewery buildings.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00111-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00111.JPG)

See, this is what a brick, industrial building should look like. Refer back to this image later.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00112-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00112.JPG)

History of expansion, built in brick.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00113-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00113.JPG)

Wow. Four floor woodframe condos. Sooo much better than the railyard that they replaced.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00114-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00114.JPG)

Aah. much better.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00115-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00115.JPG)

Much worse.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00116-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00116.JPG)

Honest brutality.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00117-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00117.JPG)

Corner of 104th Ave and 124 Street... Actually, I think it's turned into Stony Plain by now...
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00118-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00118.JPG)

The chunk of 124th Street that will suddenly make the street come alive when it's redeveloped.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00119-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00119.JPG)

Looking south from the same spot the last picture was taken form.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00120-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00120.JPG)

On Stoney Plain, just west of 124th. This is how to do an urban strip mall. Please refer back to this.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00122-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00122.JPG)

Just a neat building.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00123-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00123.JPG)

124th St. It's all about the galleries. ;)
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00124-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00124.JPG)

Part of the Udell gallery. Sculptures in the snow.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00125-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00125.JPG)

Rosies. It will be a memory soon.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00126-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00126_1.JPG)

Somebody done gone prettified this up.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00127-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00127_1.JPG)

Let's see if they'll be able to prettify this one.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00128-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00128.JPG)

Yes Virgina, there are Liberals in Alberta, but they definitely don't need a big building.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00129-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00129.JPG)

124 St also has some nice shops, such as this lighting store...
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00130-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00130.JPG)

This is one massive mofo of a building. Squatscraper.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00131-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00131.JPG)

Trees in space!

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00132-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00132.JPG)

You know it's a nice shopping strip when there's a MEC.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00133-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00133.JPG)

High street on 102 Ave.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00134-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00134.JPG)

Another shot of the squatscraper.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00135-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00135.JPG)

These houses are going to be torn down by some lucky developer. Ten stories overlooking the groat ravine? Money baby!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00136-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00136.JPG)

The 102 Ave bridge over the groat ravine.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00137-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00137.JPG)

Yup. That's going to be money.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00138-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00138.JPG)

Time for coffee.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00139-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00139.JPG)

... but first, I'll do a little browsing at Call the Kettle Black.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00140-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00140.JPG)

OK. Coffee time.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00141-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00141.JPG)

The City of Edmonton notice is up for the buildings at the start of Jasper.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00142-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00142.JPG)

Jasper ave, has some residential towers.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00143-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00143.JPG)

It'd be interesting to know how much that little house is worth. Jasper Ave address, overlooking the valley...
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00144-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00144.JPG)

Shame about the view.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00145-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00145.JPG)

Let's just put some sculpture on this building. And then clad the other side in vinyl. :shrug:
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00146-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00146.JPG)

One last look north up 124th Street.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00147-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00147.JPG)
And from the same spot, looking East up Jasper Ave.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00148-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00148.JPG)
Peeking through two buildings across the valley, to the University.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00149-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00149.JPG)

Definitely 'of an era'
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00150-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00150.JPG)
Along the edge of the valley, looking east.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00151-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00151.JPG)
A panorama. That's a view.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00152-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00152.JPG)
The University of Alberta.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00153-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00153.JPG)
The gallery walk starts here.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00154-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00154.JPG)
Edmonton does have a sign bylaw. Really.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00155-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00155.JPG)
Just a shot.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00156-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00156.JPG)
Organic food. In Alberta. It's a good thing.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00157-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00157.JPG)

Some random residential towers in Oliver.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00158-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00158.JPG)

OOOH! A crane!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00159-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00159.JPG)

Another building with public art stuck onto it. I actually quite appreciate it.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00160-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00160_1.JPG)

Just so you don't think that ugly woodframe walkups are a new phenomenon in Edmonton. We're still living with these....
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00161-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00161.JPG)

Yup. On Edmonton's main street.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00162-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00162.JPG)

Here's the last of the uglies. They're on a deathwatch...
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00163-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00163.JPG)

Another place of worship... this is the second ugliest we'll see.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00164-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00164.JPG)

A few construction shots.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00165-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00165.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00166-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00166.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00167-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00167.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00168-tm_1.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00168_1.JPG)
Another place of worship... and in front is a two storey home with vinyl siding. On Jasper. Facing the side street.. very odd.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00169-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00169.JPG)
Earls. The Tin Palace. An institution we've rammed down the throats of many others. :evil:

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00170-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00170.JPG)
More residential.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00171-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00171.JPG)
Champion grocers in the podium of a massive tower. With lots of parking. In the foreground is one of Edmonton's little oddities. Suede, next to the Subway is a very, very cool martini bar/ lounge.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00172-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00172.JPG)
Let's sell some condos.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00173-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00173.JPG)
Sobeys eat your heart out. These folks would slay if they bothered to compete.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00174-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00174.JPG)
Edmonton pride.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00175-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00175.JPG)
The Druid. Gotta take a shot of the bars I frequent, or in this case, infrequent.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00176-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00176.JPG)
Anything built here will improve the view. Ugly has a long history in Edmonton.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00177-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00177.JPG)
Yeah, I'm scratching my head too.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00178-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00178.JPG)
More Oliver residential
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00179-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00179.JPG)

My favourite Edmonton church.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00180-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00180.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00181-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00181.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00182-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00182.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00183-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00183.JPG)
Joey Tomatos. This is another fairly good example of an urban strip mall. The parking is at the back, but it sucks for two reasons. It's only got one story, and it's that ugly colour palette.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00184-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00184.JPG)
Oh, and that's Stantec in the background. Yes, we're out of residential, and almost into commercial.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00185-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00185.JPG)
The Devonian is almost done.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00186-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00186.JPG)
A shot north, capturing how close Stantec and the Devonian are.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00187-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00187.JPG)
Here's the old hospital.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00188-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00188.JPG)
Another shot of Stantec and the Devonian.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00189-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00189.JPG)
Please tell me that they aren't leaving that...
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00190-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00190.JPG)
Another shot of the hospital.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00191-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00191.JPG)
One more residential.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00192-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00192.JPG)
But these are commercial. I hope.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00193-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00193.JPG)
Crane farm!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00194-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00194.JPG)

That'd be a look north
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00195-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00195.JPG)
That'd be another urban strip mall. Edmonton sure has a lot of them. :?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00196-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00196.JPG)
That's the site of a recent demo.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00197-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00197.JPG)

Looking north, this is where the railyards were.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00198-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00198.JPG)
Another shot of the demo. Bobcat on the hill.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00199-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00199.JPG)
We'll see these woodframe four stories again.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00200-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00200.JPG)
Lovely.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00201-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00201.JPG)
Squatscraper. IBM. Big Blue. I think so.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00202-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00202.JPG)
Looking south on 109th from Jasper. This is a view that doesn't make it into the tourbooks.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00203-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00203_1.JPG)
Enjoy this, 'cause they're going to destroy this classic.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00204-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00204.JPG)
The base has been hit by an ugly stick. That glass entry way is just wrong.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00205-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00205_1.JPG)
Wind sculpture. Apparently it's supposed to whistle in the wind.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00206-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00206.JPG)
Condo conversion. These are very cool apartmnets. There's also a nice lounge on the first floor.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00207-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00207.JPG)
Still not a fan of the redo, but at least it's not a design I hate.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00208-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00208.JPG)
And it's great that this corner will get filled in.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00209-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00209.JPG)
A penultimate look.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00210-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00210.JPG)
Another bar. The Bank Ultra-Lounge.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00211-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00211.JPG)
A look west on Jasper.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00212-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00212.JPG)
Materials in place for the reno.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00213-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00213.JPG)
Office all set up.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00214-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00214.JPG)

Looks like they had a boo boo.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00215-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00215.JPG)
Zip across this for a coffee, then decide to head back and check out the legislature.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00216-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00216.JPG)
Looking south from Jasper.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00217-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00217_1.JPG)
Heading south a half block, this is a glimpse east down an alley.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00218-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00218.JPG)
Another shot east.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00219-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00219.JPG)
This may be the ugliest church of the tour.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00220-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00220.JPG)
At least it's not brutalism.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00221-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00221.JPG)
I really like this building. It has an elegance. and a sense of itself. It's gorgeous!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00222-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00222.JPG)
The Kremlin called. They want their architect back.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00223-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00223.JPG)
What are those brick barbells? What are they for? Why are they ruining the view?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00224-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00224.JPG)
Looking north from the grounds of the legislature.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00225-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00225.JPG)
There goes the neighbourhood.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00226-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00226.JPG)
Why framing a picture is important. See the picture above for contrast. ;)
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00228-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00228.JPG)
The leg's other ugly neighbour.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00229-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00229.JPG)
OK, it's definitely stalinist looking, but damnit, they ran an empire. That mofo is imposing. You can just hear it "Respect mah authoriteh!"
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00230-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00230.JPG)
A shot northwest.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00231-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00231.JPG)
Straight north. You can see the college way in the distance.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00232-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00232_1.JPG)

The birds nest is why I took this shot.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00233-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00233.JPG)
I'm trying to figure out what that crane is for.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00235-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00235.JPG)
What is hanging out of the building? and why?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00236-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00236.JPG)
Heading back up 109th.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00237-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00237.JPG)
That's nice.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00238-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00238.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00239-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00239.JPG)
That's decent graffiti at least. Not great, but decent.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00240-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00240.JPG)
Looking south over the route for the streetcar to Whyte, and the multipurpose trail
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00241-tm_1.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00241_1.JPG)
Another shot of the impressive Bowker building.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00242-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00242.JPG)

Let's surround a pretty little church with all sorts of ugly.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00243-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00243-1.JPG)
Hellaciously boring, and that final floor in white is just bizarre.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00244-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00244-1.JPG)
Cause we've got all sorts of ugly in Edmonton.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00245-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00245-1.JPG)

Street car crossing. This is the one that goes to Whyte ave via the High Level Bridge.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00246-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00246-1.JPG)
Very 70's church, with the massive IBM building in the background.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00247-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00247-1.JPG)
Gee. Why do developers think the Edmonton will accept crap?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00248-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00248-1.JPG)
From further away this time, as I come north on 109th Ave.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00249-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00249-1.JPG)
There's parking....
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00250-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00250-1.JPG)
Is that, in the distance... it somehow looks familiar.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00251-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00251-1.JPG)
Didn't we see these exact buildings a block south?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00252-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00252-1_1.JPG)
Really. What can you say. It's a 7-Eleven.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00253-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00253-1.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00254-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00254-1.JPG)
By this point, my eyes are bleeding from the ugliness.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00255-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00255-1.JPG)
It's like a train wreck. You just keep going.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00256-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00256-1.JPG)
The Drum shop.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00257-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00257-1.JPG)
Make it stop.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00258-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00258-1.JPG)

But it's behind me. How can it be off in the distance?

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00259-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00259-1.JPG)
At least the school isn't building ugly.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00260-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00260-1.JPG)
Bearing in mind that this really was industrial and warehousing for the railyards that the ugliness was built on, I like this street. It has potential for condo loft conversions. Watch what happened on 104th Street travel up 103 Ave.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00261-1_tm.JPG (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00261-1.JPG)
It's still quite close to town.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00262-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00262-1.JPG)

There's the college.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00265-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00265-1.JPG)

And the new building. Cladding is going up!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00266-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00266-1.JPG)
At the corner.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00267-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00267-1.JPG)
NFB building at the other corner.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00268-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00268-1.JPG)
And looking south from the same spot.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00269-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00269-1.JPG)
Liking this building!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00270-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00270-1_1.JPG)
The west wing of the last shot. Not completely built out yet.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00271-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00271-1.JPG)

Looking south on 109th St. from 104 Ave.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00272-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00272-1.JPG)
Ugly suburbanity in the foreground....
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00273-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00273-1.JPG)
Yup. That's Edmonton.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00274-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00274-1.JPG)
Not excusable.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00275-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00275-1.JPG)
Those look like the banners that the mongol hordes flew....
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00276-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00276-1.JPG)
The crane for the Venetian.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00277-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00277-1.JPG)
The hole for the second altavista.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00278-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00278-1.JPG)

Overtime. With the crane for the Venetian in the background.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00279-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00279-1.JPG)
Looking east on 109th street....at 103 Ave.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00280-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00280-1.JPG)What in the name of all that is unholy is that?

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00281-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00281-1.JPG)
The venetian.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00282-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00282-1.JPG)
Interesting.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00283-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00283-1.JPG)
Seriously. What in the name of all that is unholy is that?

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00284-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00284-1.JPG)
The site across the street from the Venetian.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00285-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00285-1.JPG)
OK. In context it isn't the ugliest thing in the frame.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00286-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00286-1.JPG)
The least offensive of the new retail developments on 104th Ave.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00287-1-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00287-1.JPG)
The most offensive.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00288-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00288.JPG)
See, this one is pedestrian friendly! And a couple of cool shops.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00289-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00289.JPG)
In the summer, this is actually quite a nice area.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00290-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00290.JPG)

Looking East, before crossing over into the 'North Edge'
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00291-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00291.JPG)
A bench in the park. I like the bronze leaf.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00292-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00292.JPG)
The industrial wasteland that is the north edge. We shall not let what happened before happen here. Nous Souviens.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00293-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00293.JPG)

It's an improvement.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00294-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00294.JPG)
Again, looking east.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00295-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00295.JPG)
Picture a mixed use building here.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00296-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00296.JPG)
And something blocking the view here.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00297-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00297.JPG)
Just nasty.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00298-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00298.JPG)
That my friends is potential staring at us full in the face.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00299-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00299.JPG)
Anyone know what's going on here? This is behind the Safeway.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00300-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00300.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00301-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00301.JPG)
A sign shop. In the downtown core.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00302-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00302.JPG)
The front of the sign shop.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00303-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00303_1.JPG)
A corporate headquarters, Edmonton stylee!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00304-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00304.JPG)
Quonset huts, not just for the suburbs!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00305-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00305.JPG)
Anybody want an investment property?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00306-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00306.JPG)
Zoom. Go fast.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00307-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00307.JPG)
Some funky sculpturez.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00309-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00309.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00310-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00310.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00311-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00311.JPG)

I should hope so. Wouldn't pay for it. ;)
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00312-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00312.JPG)
That church that some are upset is likely to get torn down. If you look closely, you can see that the homeless are living here enmasse.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00314-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00314.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00315-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00315.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00316-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00316.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00317-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00317.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00318-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00318.JPG)
Self explanatory. It's above ground.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00319-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00319.JPG)
I'm thinking that's the underground parking.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00320-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00320.JPG)
I don't know what that is.

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00321-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00321.JPG)
Look! A magpie!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00322-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00322.JPG)
Where I think that new building is going to go.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00323-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00323.JPG)
Are those prices still in effect?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00324-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00324.JPG)
Discovered these two stores. If you're looking for cool stuff for your house, this is definitely worth looking at. From toilets to sofas to cabinet door pulls.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00325-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00325.JPG)
Oliver Square West. The desolation...
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00326-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00326.JPG)
Is there anything like this a five minute walk from downtown anywhere else in Canada?
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00327-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00327.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00328-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00328.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00329-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00329_1.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00330-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00330.JPG)

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00331-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00331.JPG)
Oilver arena. The local skating rink and outdoor pool.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00332-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00332.JPG)
Almost home!
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00333-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00333.JPG)
Oliver really is a neat neighbourhood. Tree lined avenues are something special
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00334-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00334.JPG)
There's my home.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00335-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00335.JPG)
Just cross this street, to get to it.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00338-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00338.JPG)
And cross this street.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00339-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00339.JPG)
And I'm home!

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00342-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00342.JPG)

And last, the map of my travel:

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/Oliver%20Walk-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/Oliver%20Walk.jpg)

Coldrsx

Feb 12, 2007, 5:00 AM

holy crazy tour monkeyman........post in city pics please.

m0nkyman

Feb 12, 2007, 5:07 AM

Let's put stuff we're proud of there. This is not something we need to share.

sdimedru

Feb 12, 2007, 5:25 AM

very nice monkeyman... how long were you out there for?!

SHOFEAR

Feb 12, 2007, 5:33 AM

Anybody up for a super duper weekday afternoon photo thread that catches the best of e-town and morphs into an alcohol fueled mid-day bender? Next week is reading week......

Coldrsx

Feb 12, 2007, 5:34 AM

let me answer your questions:

Imperial - 112st 103ave just south of venetian.

Love the brutal picture set.

I really gotta get out and show how winter and Edmonton is far more beautiful than the many mistakes we see here...

m0nkyman

Feb 12, 2007, 5:35 AM

very nice monkeyman... how long were you out there for?!

Four hours, two Venti Mochas and two Venti regular coffees.

Distill3d

Feb 12, 2007, 6:27 AM

that just made my day. i've been kinda homesick for my old neighboorhood (Oliver) lately.

murman

Feb 12, 2007, 6:33 AM

Let's put stuff we're proud of there. This is not something we need to share.

It looks like W1nn1p3g, except with construction cranes.

CanadianCentaur

Feb 12, 2007, 6:44 AM

Four hours, two Venti Mochas and two Venti regular coffees.

Whoa! You must've been hopped up on the caffeine, if not freezing your ass off! Was it today that you went, because it wasn't any higher than -15°C today?

Anyways, great effort to show pics of my neighbourhood at this time of year!

m0nkyman

Feb 12, 2007, 7:21 AM

Murman. Do I have to take a camera to Vancouver and explain in excruciating detail exactly how bad Vancouver is? Because I can. I can do this in any city in Canada.... Vancouver would be easy. A quick tour of some of the truly atrocious condos just across from Granville Island, down 12th Ave, up Cambie/Smithe, some of the crap around GM Place, and then a quick tour of the lower east side,
Yeah, I could do a number on your beloved Vancouver, and it would come out looking just as bad as Edmonton. Cheap shots aren't the point.

The point of this excercise was to look at Edmonton, and see what went wrong. Next thing to do is to figure out why, and to make sure it doesn't happen again. These photographs are evidence. Things we can refer to when discussing buildings. When someone wants to defend TNP's buildings, some of these photos can be shown, showing the buildings in context.

I like good design. There is good brutalism, and bad brutalism. There is good modernism and bad modernism. Did you notice that while I wasn't exactly sparse with calling things ugly, I pointed out pretty when it was warranted?
There are beautiful buildings in Edmonton. There are beautiful areas. I might even get some of these people motivated to show it off.

And CanadianCentaur , it was -17ºC for most of today, but I was dressed for it. Not too bad out.

SpongeG

Feb 12, 2007, 7:39 AM

your house says idar?

Mike K.

Feb 12, 2007, 8:02 AM

That tour brought back a lot of memories!

Thanks for that, mm.

HomeInMyShoes

Feb 12, 2007, 2:18 PM

Anybody up for a super duper weekday afternoon photo thread that catches the best of e-town and morphs into an alcohol fueled mid-day bender? Next week is reading week......

I'd be all over that if I was in town. I hope you find willing victims...I mean participants. :) If I am indeed back in Edmonton this summer I'll be there for weekend photo tour wanderings.

I think we need to chip in to get mOnkeyman a camera. The cellphone view of the world is not the most flattering. Thanks for the tour though mOnkeyman.

murman

Feb 12, 2007, 5:16 PM

m0nkyman

Feb 12, 2007, 6:10 PM

Your posting history and context were enough. ;) Now, be honest. You were going for a cheap shot and you know it. Admit it.

murman

Feb 12, 2007, 6:49 PM

Your posting history and context were enough. ;) Now, be honest. You were going for a cheap shot and you know it. Admit it.

Sorry to disappoint, but no cheap shot intended. I can't stop you from viewing my comment in that light, though.

Wooster

Feb 12, 2007, 6:56 PM

North edge is bleak. The strip malls are downright depressing.

As far as it looking like Winnipeg. I totally disagree. I saw nothing like this there.

feepa

Feb 12, 2007, 7:29 PM

Sorry to disappoint, but no cheap shot intended. I can't stop you from viewing my comment in that light, though.

murman, I think a lot of people have this view of you. You only post in the negative. Not once do you ever comment in a positive view. Perhaps adding in the occasional comment (when warranted) pointing out something you like (there must be the odd thing that you like?). Stop sounding like a constant negative-nancy, and perhaps people will stop getting the "false" impression that you hate everything Edmonton related.

Kevin_foster

Feb 12, 2007, 7:43 PM

How about we let everyone speak their own mind - whether or not it's negative or positive?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and we can expect the harshest criticism and viewpoint from everyone here. That's what makes us constructive.

We can't have everyone agreeing with everything. Someone needs to come in and remind us of our weak points and how much we suck. So buck up and take it like a man (being Albertan and all....) - remember that thing called evil thing named complacency, and how much you don't want attract it.

So... shut the hell up about what Murman says or doesn't say - and talk about the gobs of fugly underutilized space we have here.

Man did we ever screw up Railtown in a BIG BIG way.

Thanks for the pics. :tup:

Coldrsx

Feb 12, 2007, 8:17 PM

^bingo, the whole point of a forum is to form ideas, form opinions, and form debate.

m0nkyman

Feb 12, 2007, 8:29 PM

Which would be why I spent four hours in sub-zero weather making my eyes bleed. To stir up some debates.

Some points for debate:

Urban strip malls. Can they be done right, or are they a complete blight?
How hard will it be to consolidate ownership of all those four story condos, so we can light the match?
Are we going to end up with a bunch of fake, cheap, 'warehouse' looking faux industrial structures along 105th Ave?
Does m0nkyman have any taste in architecture, I mean, he likes that POS (insert something I said something nice about here)?
Why are large parcel urban developments like the railyards always complete disasters, and should the land be auctioned off in small parcels allowing for diverse ownership of smaller lots, that can be built up in a more diverse fashion? Isn't that more organic, and ultimately a better way of allowing an area to develop?

Coldrsx

Feb 12, 2007, 8:37 PM

Some points for debate:

1. Urban strip malls. Can they be done right, or are they a complete blight?

- I'd still argue that Canterra on 109st is a decent example.....but for urban strip mall, please see robson street or south granville....or whyte ave.

2. How hard will it be to consolidate ownership of all those four story condos, so we can light the match?

-at least these have a chance at burning...unlike oh TNP.

3. Are we going to end up with a bunch of fake, cheap, 'warehouse' looking faux industrial structures along 105th Ave?

-no...the ZEN, MAXX, etc. look pretty decent....and they are not intending it to be warehouse fake, but mixed modern.

4. Does m0nkyman have any taste in architecture, I mean, he likes that POS (insert something I said something nice about here)?

- cant hide the truth.

5. Why are large parcel urban developments like the railyards always complete disasters, and should the land be auctioned off in small parcels allowing for diverse ownership of smaller lots, that can be built up in a more diverse fashion? Isn't that more organic, and ultimately a better way of allowing an area to develop?

- see concord lands, arbutus walk, bridges in calgary, century park, city place......it is not the size, but the developer and vision.

Wooster

Feb 12, 2007, 8:55 PM

Let's talk about what needs to be done in this community to turn it around.

I think first it needs a vision. Development seems to be happening haphazadly. Doesn't seem to be any coherent idea of where the community is headed towards. No plan for a coherent public realm.

Beltline in Calgary saw a couple of these shit woodframes several years ago. The community desperately wanted better development, so it created a vision for itself. It became the Blueprint for the Beltline and eventually the Beltline ARP. There is now a concrete vision in place and expectations for developers. Urban design guidelines, density bonuses, the works. Now, voila - development is quite good and there is a lot happening. This is no accident.

The city has to have the confidence to turn down total shit like the Venitian and these truly suburban strip malls. Some people would say it is better than nothing, I totally disagree. Better to have it empty until a time comes where something good has a chance to be built. It is a disgrace.

Another approach might be a TIF, like is being employed in the East Village. It is usually meant to be implemented in areas of no growth - but in this case it looks like there is some. Nonetheless, the mechanics of it are to freeze the amount of taxes currently going in to the city from this area. Borrow a bunch of money to put in public improvements such as parks, streetscaping etc, to make it more attractive. The new investment provoked will pay back the debt. When debt is payed off, all the money flows into general revenue again.

Something proactive like that needs to happen. And the city in general needs to gain the confidence to say NO!

m0nkyman

Feb 12, 2007, 9:16 PM

5. Why are large parcel urban developments like the railyards always complete disasters, and should the land be auctioned off in small parcels allowing for diverse ownership of smaller lots, that can be built up in a more diverse fashion? Isn't that more organic, and ultimately a better way of allowing an area to develop?

- see concord lands, arbutus walk, bridges in calgary, century park, city place......it is not the size, but the developer and vision.

Umm. Hate 'em all. Add in the Songhees in Victoria, and you've pretty much stated my case.

Xelebes

Feb 12, 2007, 10:15 PM

The urban strip malls were built when any development was considered good development - that is, in the early to mid nineties. Now the dreams are bigger and as josh said, the city needs a bit more confidence to snub out the smaller developments.

Kevin_foster

Feb 12, 2007, 10:22 PM

Let's talk about what needs to be done in this community to turn it around.

I think first it needs a vision. Development seems to be happening haphazadly. Doesn't seem to be any coherent idea of where the community is headed towards. No plan for a coherent public realm.

That's Edmonton's Slogan... the Haphazard City

I agree. A firm, strong, written in frickin' concrete plate for all to see - the plan for Downtown.

Beltline in Calgary saw a couple of these shit woodframes several years ago. The community desperately wanted better development, so it created a vision for itself. It became the Blueprint for the Beltline and eventually the Beltline ARP. There is now a concrete vision in place and expectations for developers. Urban design guidelines, density bonuses, the works. Now, voila - development is quite good and there is a lot happening. This is no accident.

Edmonton need's a belt line. I personally would like to see a beltline run east along 103rd ave from 106th St. East until it hits the river. Included in this would be the North Edge Project and the belt could even expand as far North as 107th Street :). Ditch the Stationlands WALL o' Doom and open it up with a few slimmer nicer office buildings closer to the core (ahem Staples site).

I'd like to see a Dubai style beltline run east from there all the way until it hits the river. Dubai less the freeway in the middle.

I envy Calgary for it's beltline.

We have so many condos WEST of the Core. NONE North and NONE EAST. The northwest Edge has been ruined by the likes of railtown, venetian, etc.

It's time to develop North. Start with Q - isnt Q supposed to be on 105th? There you go. The first building in our BELT.

murman

Feb 12, 2007, 11:14 PM

That's Edmonton's Slogan... the Haphazard City

I agree. A firm, strong, written in frickin' concrete plate for all to see - the plan for Downtown.

Edmonton's got plans up the ying-yang. It just happens to toss them out the window whenever it feels the need to suggest "winning conditions" (QC reference, sorry). Either that or Edmonton's translation of its plans is something quite different than the intent of the plans.

Make a plan and stick to it, unless what is brought before you is a significant benefit to the overall betterment of the city.

Oh yeah, and be patient too. Don't rush off to marry the first developer that asks you to dance on Sadie Hawkins Day. (A poor analogy but I think gets the point across... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadie_Hawkins )

Lyle

Feb 12, 2007, 11:19 PM

"The Kremlin called. They want their architect back." I laughed out loud when I read that.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00223-tm.jpg

At the same time, free-market Alberta seems to do it a lot worse than the former worker's paradise. Most Stalinist architecture never got that bad.

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/SCC/STALIN-moscow-university2.jpg

http://www.stanford.edu/~gfreidin/images/architecture/paris-fair37.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Leningradskyprospect.jpg

http://www.davidkrutpublishing.com/dkp/wp-content/uploads/Bookshop/pic_updates/Stalinist_Architecture.jpg

Distill3d

Feb 13, 2007, 12:23 AM

"The Kremlin called. They want their architect back." I laughed out loud when I read that.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00223-tm.jpg

call me odd here, but as commie looking as it is, i actually like the Federal Building. one of my favorites in Edmonton.

now, if only they would use it....perhaps renovating them into charactor apartments or office condos...

m0nkyman

Feb 13, 2007, 12:38 AM

Like I said, you got to give it credit for being what it is. No apologies:
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00230-tm.jpg

I like it too.

Wooster

Feb 13, 2007, 1:48 AM

That's Edmonton's Slogan... the Haphazard City

I agree. A firm, strong, written in frickin' concrete plate for all to see - the plan for Downtown.

Edmonton need's a belt line. I personally would like to see a beltline run east along 103rd ave from 106th St. East until it hits the river. Included in this would be the North Edge Project and the belt could even expand as far North as 107th Street :). Ditch the Stationlands WALL o' Doom and open it up with a few slimmer nicer office buildings closer to the core (ahem Staples site).

I'd like to see a Dubai style beltline run east from there all the way until it hits the river. Dubai less the freeway in the middle.

I envy Calgary for it's beltline.

We have so many condos WEST of the Core. NONE North and NONE EAST. The northwest Edge has been ruined by the likes of railtown, venetian, etc.

It's time to develop North. Start with Q - isnt Q supposed to be on 105th? There you go. The first building in our BELT.

Beltline just refers to the neighbourhood name in Calgary, it is not an urban type. Beltline is what the old streetcar loop used to be called around the current community.

But yeah, Edmonton's north edge could follow a lot of the same development patterns and policies that are going on in this neighbourhood.

The Federal Building was one of my favourites of the set.

Lyle

Feb 13, 2007, 2:15 AM

The Federal Building was one of my favourites of the set.

That's not hard when Monkyman was concentrating on urban horror stories, give or take a couple.

But come on, the architect who designed that building in in the mid-50s was probably chosen by Ernest Manning for his upright Calvinist approach to life, ie, no dancing and certainly no ornamentation on public buildings! Don't want to stir any passions, now.

Kevin_foster

Feb 13, 2007, 3:14 AM

Like I said, you got to give it credit for being what it is. No apologies:
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00230-tm.jpg

I like it too.

At least this building speaks something - like... I'm big, I'm strong, I'm communist!

I like the whole leg. area.... a few more fancy buildings (perhaps that one that resembled the Fairmont Palliser on Acid.. the one in proposal stage) should be built here. :)

I love the fact that Edmonton has the political power (technically) - we get a few neat buildings in return :)

CMD UW

Feb 13, 2007, 3:55 AM

That's Edmonton's Slogan... the Haphazard City

I agree. A firm, strong, written in frickin' concrete plate for all to see - the plan for Downtown.
Enter the "new" downtown plan that is currently underway. This will be a fantastic plan.

Edmonton need's a belt line....I'd like to see a Dubai style beltline run east from there all the way until it hits the river. Dubai less the freeway in the middle.

We have so many condos WEST of the Core. NONE North and NONE EAST. The northwest Edge has been ruined by the likes of railtown, venetian, etc.

It's time to develop North. Start with Q - isnt Q supposed to be on 105th? There you go. The first building in our BELT.
This is what the North Edge area will be and has started to become. There are a number of nice mid-rise buildings like Maxx (which has been redesigned and looks like something from Arbutus), Zen and now the MTEC proposal.

Coldrsx

Feb 13, 2007, 4:29 AM

guys guys guys.....stop and be enlightened.

the North Edge ARP is well underyway and if you had been apart of the process, you would know it is as good as any beltline in cal......

Fed building - one of the best in the city.......i will move if it goes. Condos, office, hotel, NOW.

m0nkyman

Feb 13, 2007, 4:46 AM

guys guys guys.....stop and be enlightened.

the North Edge ARP is well underyway and if you had been apart of the process, you would know it is as good as any beltline in cal......

No. It could be. Execution is everything, and I've seen enough urban plans go sideways for one reason or another. A city is too important to leave to the experts. Ya gots ta git hand on. The world is run by those few who show up for the meetings. Talk-Action=Zero. I fully plan on hounding every north edge project throught the city hall phase. I'm too new to the city to have been part of the planning, but I'll damned well be part of the execution. :whip:

Fed building - one of the best in the city.......i will move if it goes. Condos, office, hotel, NOW.

What kind of freaking moron would make it go somewhere? That imposing motherfucker rocks! :koko:
Reminds me of this one, but without all the fussiness. ;) :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Langman_sto.jpg/730px-Langman_sto.jpg

slapshot™

Feb 13, 2007, 11:46 AM

I saw very few pics of Oliver.....

http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC00109-tm.jpg

Your tour for the most part skirted the perimeter of Oliver and (IMO) didn't due justice to the established, tree-lined residential Oilver neighbourhood. You spent too much time on Jasper and 104th Ave and no time in between.

To me, Oliver IS the established residential area...not Railtown and the rest of the crap next to 109th Street.

m0nkyman

Feb 13, 2007, 3:27 PM

I saw very few pics of Oliver.....
Well, look again. If you need help, read the ARP. (http://www.edmonton.ca/infraplan/consolidations/pdf%20consolidations/Oliver%20ARP%20Consolidation.pdf) There are a number of maps. Granted Railtown and the North Edge are outside the boundaries, but Jasper and 104th Ave are definitely in Oliver. As is the Molson's factory.

Your tour for the most part skirted the perimeter of Oliver and (IMO) didn't due justice to the established, tree-lined residential Oilver neighbourhood. You spent too much time on Jasper and 104th Ave and no time in between.

To me, Oliver IS the established residential area...not Railtown and the rest of the crap next to 109th Street.

Did I accidentally post this on treelinedboulevardpage.com?

slapshot™

Feb 13, 2007, 4:14 PM

Did I accidentally post this on treelinedboulevardpage.com?

*L*

Touche!

shappy

Feb 13, 2007, 5:34 PM

are there any urban design guidelines in this area? There are so few cohesive elements to create any kind of meaningful public space.

This area looks like Scarborough actually (on a bad day). The strip malls, the slab apartments, the infill (though Scarborough infill is brick and typically more attractive), the wide avenues, even the ravines.

Coldrsx

Feb 13, 2007, 7:56 PM

^there wasnt but is more now, but still a ways to go... Oilver needs an ARP.

CMD UW

Feb 13, 2007, 8:20 PM

/\ Oliver has an ARP...it just needs to be updated.

@monkeyman - The North Edge area JUST started to see development applications. So far, the quality and design of proposed developments are nice - Aurora, Maxx, etc. This area will develop to a much greater standard that we've seen in any other area.

Coldrsx

Feb 13, 2007, 8:22 PM

^sorry dr.cmd, i meant updated.

slapshot™

Feb 14, 2007, 12:01 PM

Well, look again. If you need help, read the ARP. (http://www.edmonton.ca/infraplan/consolidations/pdf%20consolidations/Oliver%20ARP%20Consolidation.pdf) There are a number of maps. Granted Railtown and the North Edge are outside the boundaries, but Jasper and 104th Ave are definitely in Oliver. As is the Molson's factory.

Thank you for the link. Go check out the map on page 11 of that pdf. You missed all the good stuff south of Jasper to the river and (correct me if I'm wrong) I failed to see at least ONE pic of the LeMarchand Mansion.

Sure, it was crappy, flat, overcast, winter light (which can be some of the toughest to shoot in), but I think you failed to do justice to the Oilver area. Go to page 14 of that pdf file and look at the suggested areas of "retention and conversion of older housing stock is encouraged". I don't recall any pics of these possiblities. How 'bout pics of existing park space and other cultural ammenities (page 58 of the pdf)?

I don't want to sound too harsh/critical, m0nkeyman. I just think you focused too much on Jasper and 104 Avenues and never got "into" Oliver to see the hidden jems.

Overall though, I really enjoyed going through your photo excursion and do recognize the effort you put forth with the uploading and captions, etc.

Ginty

Feb 14, 2007, 5:51 PM

Yeah. the Federal Building is a classic.

i believe that mystery crane is for River Vista. The building with the most amazing north wall of anything built in this city or any other city. Ever.

Whats this about a mid day bender?

ibz

Feb 15, 2007, 3:33 AM

Apparently $926 million! (Considering the figures they were throwing around during the ATB scandal about the malls worth, thats quite a gain in value over the last decade)

Anyways information here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070126.RCAPITAL26/TPStory/Business

If your interested in equity financing, read the whole thing...otherwise, enjoy!

Hardhatdan

Feb 15, 2007, 3:33 AM

After a fine lunch and earls, served by an equally fine shorty...

HardhatDizznizzle and CMD U-DUUUBBB PRESENT:
Cold Crisp and (maybe not so) Clean.
Car tour of Cloverdale, Riverdale, East Jasper, Chinatown, The North Edge, The Core and West Jasper/124st.
http://members.shaw.ca/cettiga/extrasmall/Image00001.jpg http://members.shaw.ca/cettiga/extrasmall/Image00002.jpg
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Are you excited in your pants region?

Coldrsx

Feb 15, 2007, 3:41 AM

a bil....not bad.

Xelebes

Feb 15, 2007, 3:43 AM

*prepares the TNT*

tokama

Feb 15, 2007, 3:44 AM

Bring back the dolphins! Sea-lions are smug.

vid

Feb 15, 2007, 3:45 AM

No, no a billion, 23/25ths of a billion. That isn't even close! :P

Coldrsx

Feb 15, 2007, 3:47 AM

^no im not, but great tour boys...and sober too, im proud of you. Please post in the city pics section.

Boris2k7

Feb 15, 2007, 3:47 AM

Bring back the dolphins! Sea-lions are smug.

Just be glad that they are sea lions and not walruses. Porky bastards...

So, how would WestEd compare against other malls in Canada... say Eaton Centre in TO...

I would be interested in seeing how much the malls here in Calgary stack up. Chinook ain't that small...

Coldrsx

Feb 15, 2007, 3:48 AM

i miss the exotic birds in the middle of the areas.

Xelebes

Feb 15, 2007, 3:56 AM

What, caged flamingos are not your thing?

ibz

Feb 15, 2007, 4:01 AM

To fill in some info about the malls current state:

- WEM has done a tremendous job of attracting new retailers in the past couple years (of recent note big ones include, Hollister, Abercrombie, Sketchers, Urban Outfitters, G*Star Raw..soon to be joined by Mandarina and H&M among others.

-The waterpark underwent a major renovation about a year ago, adding new slides, painting, and renovating change rooms, slide areas, restaurant stuff, pool, etc..

- Galaxyland has pretty much had most of their rides replaced with something better and more modern in the past 3 years. They did a pretty decent job of keeping the park interesting, and apparently are going to add another roller coaster that loops around the entire park.

- The mall in general however still remains un-renovated, 80s and desperatly awaiting to be updated. I somehow doubt the $600 million they got from the financing will go to this though...

Doug

Feb 15, 2007, 4:10 AM

It cost ~$1B to build in early 1980's dollars.

Arriviste

Feb 15, 2007, 4:13 AM

You know, I'm sure I'll get flamed by an enraged Edmontonian who will claim I am jealous, but WEM is the most horrendous enclosed structure on the planet, and I've been to Vegas.
Great for the economy though. A shame what it did to DT however.

CorporateWhore

Feb 15, 2007, 4:13 AM

Well i guess this just goes to show that one man's garbage is another man's, um, garbage thats worth stuff.

m0nkyman

Feb 15, 2007, 4:36 AM

After a fine lunch and earls, served by an equally fine shorty...

HardhatDizznizzle and CMD U-DUUUBBB PRESENT:
Cold Crisp and (maybe not so) Clean.
Car tour of Cloverdale, Riverdale, East Jasper, Chinatown, The North Edge, The Core and West Jasper/124st.
Are you excited in your pants region?

First of all, great pictures. You guys did a real nice job there.

I do have to point out though, that you wimps did this by car :no: . Bet it even had a heater. Fricking wimps. You mofo's want to join me for this Sunday's walk? It's supposed to be warm out, so you nancy boys might be able to stay outside for a few hours without complaining. My plan was to hit the southern edge of downtown, climb a few hills, explore Rossdale.

South of Jasper from 116th Street all the way east to 100St... Shouldn't take more than a couple of hours. End at 1905, put all the pics on my laptop, I'll upload them on a pirated wi-fi connection while we warm up with some frosties, and then we can gloat.

Hardhatdan

Feb 15, 2007, 4:50 AM

Yea I know the car thing, but I was hungover like crazy and CMD has a really nice car.

Yea I'd be up for a photo tour, its supposed to be back above zero again too.
No one picked up on the flowers hanging on the lamp posts of Chinatown...in minus 25??

Hardhatdan

Feb 15, 2007, 4:54 AM

^no im not, but great tour boys...and sober too, im proud of you. Please post in the city pics section.
Its Valentine's day and you aren't excited in your pants region...with your GF in town? You are lying right to my face (Through the internet.)

Hardhatdan

Feb 15, 2007, 4:57 AM

WEM is like its own paradox, its such a piece of shit and at the same time really amazing.
I hate to love it and all that...

Coldrsx

Feb 15, 2007, 4:59 AM

as much as people might say.... WEM didnt kill downtown Edmonton. How is retail in Calgary's core? Not amazing...nope.

Edmonton killed downtown, sorry y'all

Coldrsx

Feb 15, 2007, 5:02 AM

I'm planning a tour of whyte, by day then by night.

Coldrsx

Feb 15, 2007, 5:05 AM

Its Valentine's day and you aren't excited in your pants region...with your GF in town? You are lying right to my face (Through the internet.)

:cheers:

CanadianCentaur

Feb 15, 2007, 5:06 AM

Hardhatdan, you've got a sick mind saying things like getting excited in the "pants region", LOL! But great pics - like Cold said, you ought to post them in the City Photos.

Hardhatdan

Feb 15, 2007, 5:12 AM

I'll post em, but seriously that post took over half an hour to make...is there an easier way for next time?