Alberta: PC leadership - runoff, who do you want?

[Wooster]

The race is down to three.

Here is how the race came out

Top Three - going to the runoff:

Dinning: 29,740 (30%) www.jimdinning.ca
Ted Morton: 25,614 (24%) www.tedmorton.ca
Ed Stelmach: 14, 967 (15%) www.stelmach.ca
---------------------
Bottom five: Weeping uncontrollably, then positioning themselves for cabinet positions in the next week:
Lyle Oberg: 11,638
Dave Hancock: 7,595
Mark Norris, 6,789
Gary McPherson: 744
Victor Doerksen: 87 (I could have gotten more votes)


It will be interesting to see who the five losing candidates put their support behond. If they all support Stelmach, does he have a chance still? Could there be an anyone but Dinning factor, or an anyone but Morton? or both?

Oops. Didn't make it a poll. Just write and explain who you like.

[Coldrsx]

Dinning no doubt la.

[Surrealplaces]

I'm sure it'll Dinning. If I had to choose, that's who I would take. Ted Morton scares me.

[dubiousmike]

If Morton wins, I imagine I'll dedicate most of my free time to defaming this province in as profane a manner as possible.

[The Chemist]

Anybody but Morton.

[Boris2k7]

Anybody but Morton.

Ditto

[Wooster]

Morton: The market and incentives can solve anything! yipee!!!!!!!!!

I'm in the anybody but Morton camp, but the other two are far from great in my opinion. The biggest effect of a Morton could be that it would mean a lot more provincial liberal seats in the next election.

[skrish]

King Dinning sounds right

[SHOFEAR]

I never got around to using my membership in the first round, but I'll vote for Dinning this round.

It's not that Morton scares me because of his more social conservative beliefs. My concern is that Edmonton and Calgary would take a back seat to rural needs under him. Same with Stelmach.

At least Morton would drastically change the way we deal with Ottawa, and perhaps a few years of that would be a good thing.

[Waterlooson]

C'mon guys, Morton is the best..... just kidding.

Dinning I guess.

[Doug]

Anybody but Dinning, Alberta's answer to Paul Martin. Morton would definately shake things up the most.

[Wooster]

^ Morton: Alberta's answer to Pat Buchanan

[AlbertaBeef]

I voted for Ted Morton on the first ballot, will do the same this weekend.

[The Chemist]

^ Morton: Alberta's answer to Pat Buchanan

Or Rick Santorum.

Seriously, the guy has NO political or leadership experience. What on earth makes him qualified to lead this province other than the fact that he's got one of the reddest necks in the country?

[dubiousmike]

I've heard unsubstantiated rumours that if Ted Morton wins, a fair number of Tory MLAs will jump to the Liberal party.

Can anyone comment further on that?

[brento79]

Morton is a wack job. :koko:

My only concern about Dinning is his view points on the two cities. Either he is not being clear on Edmonton or he is being clear. He seems to state that Edmonton is mainly a Cultural centre, and the "Ottawa of Alberta". To a Business professional like myself that worries me. What does that tell my clients?

I would like to see the dreams of the canidates more clearly in regards to what makes both Calgary and Edmonton part of the Alberta advantage. Right now I don't think that is very clear.

[SHOFEAR]

"Cultural center" "Ottawa of Alberta" errr...how can we be both? Not impressed either way.

[Waterlooson]

Calling Edmonton the Ottawa of Alberta is a compliment IMO. Ottawa is a seat of government - as is Edmonton - and Ottawa is one of the countries most important tech centers - Edmonton is trying. Ottawa is also a center for higher education - so is Edmonton. Both cities are cultural centers. However, Edmonton's economy is more diversified.

[Edmonchuck]

I've heard unsubstantiated rumours that if Ted Morton wins, a fair number of Tory MLAs will jump to the Liberal party.

Can anyone comment further on that?

Will not divulge sources...but this is something that more than a few have muttered...

Either that, or a new So Cred...or another name. Basically, they are afraid that a Teddy government takes the Progressive out of their name that is an oxymoron...and they know that this will put Alberta at huge odds with a rural/urban split that will divide the party to the tune of 8.2 on the Richter.

The Libs are cheering the Morton camp wholeheartedly right now. If redneck Ted wins, they 'll dump Taft in a heartbeat as there will be plenty of more charasmatic contenders that show up now that the Libs have their best chance since Decore.

If Jim wins...then the Libs are in trouble. They know this.

[itom 987]

Ted Morton = :thankyouthankyou:

The Concervative Party = :goodnight:

Me = :notacrook:

[IntotheWest]

I'm going with Morton. Dinning has offered nothing of value in his "plan" - and likely the reason he doesn't "scare" anyone...he's played typical politician, and is hoping (and will likely) win because the other candidates have been vocal.

What surprises me the most are Dinning supporters that really believe the status quo of our ailing health care system is the best option.

Oberg will likely throw support behind Morton as well...not sure who else.

EDIT: Oops...Oberg is supportin' Stelmach.

[Policy Wonk]

If Ted Morton steps more than six feet away from a classroom, he might as well be wandering around on Mars. He was almost tapped by the conservatives to serve as Clerk of the Privy Council :koko:

Another interesting note about Mr. Arch Conservative Morton is he came to Canada as a draft dodger. He is originally from Southern California.

[vaportrail]

Oberg and Hancock are throwing their support behind Stelmach, so don't count him out. First round votes for those three candidates total a little more than Dinning's count. I predict the next round will see Morton gone (:worship:) and a third-round runoff will be required between Dinning and Stelmach.

[Doug]

That would be great if some of the PC's jumped ship to invigerate the Liberals. The next election might even be a hrose race. Still can't see it happening though.

[Waterlooson]

If Ted Morton steps more than six feet away from a classroom, he might as well be wandering around on Mars. He was almost tapped by the conservatives to serve as Clerk of the Privy Council :koko:

Another interesting note about Mr. Arch Conservative Morton is he came to Canada as a draft dodger. He is originally from Southern California.

So he's basically a draft dodging Republican - that's funny.

[Wooster]

^Apparently at one point he was a strong follower of socialism. I guess that bone in his body was shattered somewhere along the line. The guy is scary right-wing now.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Call me nuts but I can see Stelmach winning this. I'm not saying it's likely; I'm just saying that it wouldn't surprise me.

Dinning is the only one of the three supporting a province-wide smoking ban, I noted.

A Morton win would be... interesting.

[Boris2k7]

A Morton win would be... interesting.

LOL, I can almost see the grimace on your face... :D

[Rusty van Reddick]

LOL, I can almost see the grimace on your face... :D

Like the first time I tasted tripe... interesting.

[Wooster]

If Morton wins and several prominent PCs do move to the Liberals. I think it is time they finally rebranded themselves as the true centrist, environmentally friendly, public health care supporting party, elected a new less snooze-inducing leader than Kevin Taft (perhaps Dave Taylor, or Dave Bronconnier) and made real run for it in the next election.

[Boris2k7]

Even with Morton as the C leader, the only way that I could see myself voting for the Liberals is if they underwent a (hostile) Green takeover. :frog:

[Rusty van Reddick]

Even with Morton as the C leader, the only way that I could see myself voting for the Liberals is if they underwent a (hostile) Green takeover. :frog:

What Greens ideas do the provincial grits not support? I can't see why you wouldn't want to vote strategically.

[Boris2k7]

What Greens ideas do the provincial grits not support? I can't see why you wouldn't want to vote strategically.

To tell you the truth, I have no idea what the Grits support or don't support. I have gone to their website and they seem incredibly wishy-washy, with no firm policies. Just lip service, like the Federal Liberals. Taft is Daft.

I don't like strategic voting. It goes against my principals.

[Doug]

Dinning can't be happy right now. I think everyone underestimated the desire within the party to renew itself, break up the old boys club and chose a leader from outside Calgary. Stelmach wouldn't be a bad choice. There is no way that Morton is as scary as he has been portrayed.

The Liberals will never be competitive unless they move to the right of the PC's. Remember in '93 Decore almost won the election by promising "brutal cuts" to government spending.

Events like this are what is great about Alberta politics. When change occurs, it happens unexpectedly and in quantum leaps rather than the cautious incrementalism that defines all other provinces except BC. It also demonstrates the Alberta aversion to establishments.

[Edmonchuck]

massive and brutal cuts I think were the words...

He proved that Alberta may be fiscally conservative, but not overtly socially conservative. Morton is too far right, but those who said that he proves the desire for something new are correct. He just isn't the "new".

[tkoe]

It also demonstrates the Alberta aversion to establishments.

Aversion to establishments - are you aware that Albertans have voted Conservative for the last 35 years?! That sounds like an establishment, if you ask me. In this race, I would be thrilled is Teddy won because then all the stupid sheep voting Conservative would truly get what they deserve.

[Bassic Lab]

Dinning can't be happy right now. I think everyone underestimated the desire within the party to renew itself, break up the old boys club and chose a leader from outside Calgary. Stelmach wouldn't be a bad choice. There is no way that Morton is as scary as he has been portrayed.

The Liberals will never be competitive unless they move to the right of the PC's. Remember in '93 Decore almost won the election by promising "brutal cuts" to government spending.

Events like this are what is great about Alberta politics. When change occurs, it happens unexpectedly and in quantum leaps rather than the cautious incrementalism that defines all other provinces except BC. It also demonstrates the Alberta aversion to establishments.

Alberta has an aversion to establishments? Really, I'm curious as to how that works. A decade or so after every change in party and the new one is pretty well establishment. The province just punishes parties particularly painfully.

The PCs tend to get elected by being pretty moderate. Despite picking fights with Ottawa over just about any thing. Taxes are low because they can be low while still paying for the most spending, per capita, of any provincial government. The province is not ready for a real conservative party, and Calgary will not vote enmasse for one. The only growth the PC party can expect under Morton involves retaking Taber-Cardston. They would lose a fair bit of Calgary.

I can see Stelmach taking it. Dinning was apparently an ass to every one during the campaign. Hancock has a lot more in common with Dinning than Stelmach but Dinning just bullied him into supporting Stelmach. Stelmach is also acceptable to just about every one, the caucus won't revolt under him as it could under Morton. His only hope is to make it into the top two after the second ballot. After that he could be a lock, the third place contenders voters would likely have him as the second choice on the ballot. If on the other hand Stelmach doesn't make it past the second ballot, well then politics in this province could get very interesting with a divided Tory party.

[mersar]

Personally I think a term under Morton may be a good thing for the province, as it would revigorate both the PC's and Lib's. I don't think we'd see anything as far reaching as a new party forming along the lines of the old Social Credit party, but I may be wrong.

Unfortunately I don't see Morton winning though. Both Dinning and Stelmach are likely going to spend the next week trying to show how big of a boogeyman Morton is as he is their biggest worry, not each other. By next weekend its likely going to look fairly evenly split again, with everyone who was supporting the others split between Morton and Dinning (despite the fact the other former candidates are supporting Stelmach mostly, I don't forsee their supporters doing so exclusively).

Plus you have to remember how the 2nd ballot works. It isn't one member one vote. Its quite possible that if a large number vote Dinning and Morton as their first/third choice, and Stelmach as the middle one, that Stelmach may walk out the winner.

[Kevin_foster]

Anyone but Morton.

It would be a disaster for this province.

Know how people jokingly talk about Alberta being the Bible Belt of Canada, the Texas of the North? Jesus land?

If Morton gets in, the Conservative Party will undoubtedly step back 25 years in history.

I'm not some crazy anti-Christian, but god we don't need any sort of American style Christian Politics running our province. Keep it to the church.

I'm really rooting for Dinning. I was almost tempted to buy a membership just to vote against Morton.

Alberta has to be a leader and pave the way for the future. *shudder*, and with Morton in power, the conservatives won't last too long in this province... and hell come high water I want the Liberal Machine running my province :P I'd rather a soft conservative to run it

[Doug]

Why does everyone assume that Morton's supposed social conservatism is based on religion? There are many reasons to oppose same sex marriage, religion and social conservatism being but two. He is basically a provincial rights candidate, which is a good thing but a few decades too late given that a far less expansionist government is now running Ottawa.

I lived in the so-called "bible belt of Canada" aka Southern Alberta for ~25 years and somehow missed out on the religion, unless you consider capitalism and skiing to be spiritual.

[The Chemist]

Once again, the man has NO EXPERIENCE! He's never held a cabinet post. He's never held a leadership position. He's a rookie MLA. Now more than ever we need a real leader - someone with experience to deal with the numerious problems facing this province (and no, I'm not referring to same-sex marriage - that issue is settled, and Morton should let it die already). Stelmach and Dinning both have proven track records - Morton most certainly does not.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Why does everyone assume that Morton's supposed social conservatism is based on religion? There are many reasons to oppose same sex marriage, religion and social conservatism being but two.

You're right about the irony of us being labelled "bible belt," when Calgary is only second to Vancouver and the second most secular (ie, LEAST religious) major city in Canada.

Having said that, Morton does wear his religion on his sleeve.

And having said THAT, whether he's a secular or a "religious" homophobe, he's a homophobe. He's gone after every act that would give gay couples legal status on any dimension, including opposing the province's decision to give same-sex widows and widowers claims to estates intestate- this is a private matter within a couple (some of them having been together for decades), and Morton would offer them zero legal claim or protection- because "they aren't married." This is mean-spirited, hateful even, and repugnantly bigoted. I could go on and on- Morton testified against the federal govt's decision to allow those same widow/ers to claim CPP benefits from deceased partners before FEDERAL law redefined "spouse" based again on the fact that same-sex couples weren't so defined before whenever... kind of like saying, "yeah, your family has been in this country for 300 years, but you can't claim to be a citizen because your ancestors were slaves. Not that I support slavery, but my hands are tied." Saying that same sex couples didn't deserve equal treatment because they weren't "married," and THEN to rail against same-sex marriage? That is evil.

[freeweed]

Why does everyone assume that Morton's supposed social conservatism is based on religion? There are many reasons to oppose same sex marriage, religion and social conservatism being but two.

Because for the most part, the two go hand-in-hand. Countries that do not have strong religious leanings in their political structure (like Canada, until recently) tend to not worry themselves as much about silly issues like same sex marriage. The overwhelming majority of arguments against it, much like the abortion debate, come from the religious folks. The more important monotheistic religion is in a political system, the most strongly the government cracks down on homosexuality. We only need to look at modern theorcracies to see the endgame here.

Fundamentally it's a matter of pushing a bedroom lifestyle on people, and punishing anyone who deviates. Everything else is just window dressing.

Thankfully Canada by now has enough immigrants from enough different countries that we'll never see such a strong religious influence like in the US. I only hope that Alberta has finally brought in enough people from Asia, etc, that even if we DO get stupid for a couple of years, we eventually vote these twits out of power.

You'd think that 500 years after the renaissance we'd finally have learned enough to keep these superstitious morons out of power, but the late 20th-century revival is going to take a while to really play itself out :(

[freeweed]

Saying that same sex couples didn't deserve equal treatment because they weren't "married," and THEN to rail against same-sex marriage? That is evil.

It's just a very transparent way to try to legislate behaviours and lifestyles. I'm astounded that a lot of people honestly don't see this - although for most, it's what keeps them "comfortable", so they usually ignore the motivations as long as they get what they want, and those dirty homosexuals don't get anything.

Of course, this only works until the people in power decide to rule against something THEY do, but people en masse aren't very smart at taking the long view.

First they came for the homosexuals.... that poem rings truer today than at any time in our history.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Margaret Sommerville uses a secular argument against SSM. Not that I agree with it of course, but there are such things.

Morton has said that marriage commissioners should be permitted to opt out if they oppose it for religious reasons, not for "whatever" reason, and jumped a while back on the "protect the children" with Bishop Henry. So I think he at least claims religious reasons as much as provincial autonomy- I mean, he could have argued that the province should have performed SSM before the feds decreed it, and that would have been supporting provincial autonomy as well.

[Bassic Lab]

Why does everyone assume that Morton's supposed social conservatism is based on religion? There are many reasons to oppose same sex marriage, religion and social conservatism being but two. He is basically a provincial rights candidate, which is a good thing but a few decades too late given that a far less expansionist government is now running Ottawa.

I lived in the so-called "bible belt of Canada" aka Southern Alberta for ~25 years and somehow missed out on the religion, unless you consider capitalism and skiing to be spiritual.

I don't neccasarilly think his views have any thing to do with religion, he is a constitutional expert who holds certain extreme views on the subject. What can't be counted out though is that he has reached for a religious base in rural Alberta. They're not the group I want in charge of this province, I don't see how they could be good for Calgary or Edmonton. We need a provincial government that is not beholden to rural interests.

As to his extreme views regarding the constitution, they essentially preclude any federalists from supporting the man. Most of the province consists of people with far stronger federalist leanings then Morton. If Morton wins then the RCMP, the CPP, and the Canada Health Act will no longer be in affect in Alberta, that is pretty extreme.

[Doug]

Once again, the man has NO EXPERIENCE! He's never held a cabinet post. He's never held a leadership position. He's a rookie MLA. Now more than ever we need a real leader - someone with experience to deal with the numerious problems facing this province (and no, I'm not referring to same-sex marriage - that issue is settled, and Morton should let it die already). Stelmach and Dinning both have proven track records - Morton most certainly does not.


Lack of experience and the fact that he is academic are definitely strikes. But if the PC Party is to renew itself it almost needs someone without a history in politics or one from an entirely different segment.

[Bad Grizzly]

Anybody but Tedneck.

[Doug]

As to his extreme views regarding the constitution, they essentially preclude any federalists from supporting the man. Most of the province consists of people with far stronger federalist leanings then Morton. If Morton wins then the RCMP, the CPP, and the Canada Health Act will no longer be in affect in Alberta, that is pretty extreme.

I guess I see that more as progressive than extreme. Federal institutions like CPP and the Canada Health Act have been stale for decades and are in need of reform. But as I said earlier, with a new government in Ottawa that is much more ambitious, pragmatic and open minded, the Provinces need not lead on that front. Prior to January, I would have been a hardcore Morton supporter. Now with a willingness to move the federal government moving out of the days of leisure suits and bell bottoms, he has far less to offer.

I still wish Preston Manning or, even better, Gwyn Morgan would have run.

[Bassic Lab]

I guess I see that more as progressive than extreme. Federal institutions like CPP and the Canada Health Act have been stale for decades and are in need of reform.

I have a strange feeling that we have very different definitions of the word "progressive".

Does it strike any one else as kind of odd that a draft dodging, university proffessor, from southern California, who lives in Calgary, has become the great hope of rural Alberta in this leadership race?

[Doug]

What can't be counted out though is that he has reached for a religious base in rural Alberta.

Why the assumption the rural Alberta is overtly religious? That is definitely the slant pushed by the media and the eastern political establishment, but is it based on fact? Again, my experience is that rural Alberta is probably less religious that most of Canada because it is younger and more mobile due to the economy. Do you think the average rural Albertan cares more about social issues such as same sex marriage or the $60K SUV and trip to Hawaii?

[Doug]

I have a strange feeling that we have very different definitions of the word "progressive".

Does it strike any one else as kind of odd that a draft dodging, university proffessor, from southern California, who lives in Calgary, has become the great hope of rural Alberta in this leadership race?

Don't forget that he went to high school in Wyoming, lived on a commune in Israel and earned his PhD from U of T.

[Bassic Lab]

Why the assumption the rural Alberta is overtly religious? That is definitely the slant pushed by the media and the eastern political establishment, but is it based on fact? Again, my experience is that rural Alberta is probably less religious that most of Canada because it is younger and more mobile due to the economy. Do you think the average rural Albertan cares more about social issues such as same sex marriage or the $60K SUV and trip to Hawaii?

I'm not saying that rural Alberta equals the religious right, I'm saying he has reached out to the religious groups in rural Alberta as part of his strategy. He isn't reaching out to the young, mobile population of the work camps, he's reaching out to the old, stable population in towns that really haven't changed much in the last couple decades. His supporters are predominantly elderly people looing for the good old times and very young people that could only be called Alberta's answer to sovereignists in Quebec.

[freeweed]

Margaret Sommerville uses a secular argument against SSM. Not that I agree with it of course, but there are such things.

I'd be curious to see one. Note that it must exclude single parents, widows, foster parents, and the like. It cannot address infertile couples, or those that choose to not have children. It must specifically and only target SSM. That, I've yet to see from a secular standpoint. Well, other than the "this wasn't how we did things when I was a kid" type stupidity.

[duper]

Why the assumption the rural Alberta is overtly religious? That is definitely the slant pushed by the media and the eastern political establishment,

No, its a slant pushed by Ted Morton, the Reform Party, WCC, Stockwell Day, etc., etc.
The fact that Alberta has strongly rebuked the far right in the past is indicative of why that slant is incorrect. Embracing that radical ideology does nothing to help that image.

Morton is in many ways like Bush, in the sense that he may not be a religious person, but he'll play one on TV.

[Doug]

^Again falling back to the tired pattern of drawing parallels to American politics to obfuscate and discredit as opposed to looking at the real issue, which in this case is Morton's support of greater provincial autonomy.

The religious right is nowhere near numerous enough to sway politics in Canada, especially not in Alberta, but don't tell the Toronto Star, CBC or Liberal campaign strategists.

[freeweed]

The religious right is nowhere near numerous enough to sway politics in Canada, especially not in Alberta

And I go to bed every night hoping this remains the case.

They've still done a good job convincing people that the SSM debate isn't about religion, though.

[duper]

^Again falling back to the tired pattern of drawing parallels to American politics to obfuscate and discredit as opposed to looking at the real issue, which in this case is Morton's support of greater provincial autonomy.


MORTON helped define himself as a radical, which is why he has no room to grow in Alberta. When things are going as well as they are in Alberta, mustering anger against Ottawa's power really falls flat. As you point out, Alberta is increasingly young with more liberal views, at least socially. This is not the demographic that is most friendly to Morton.

[Policy Wonk]

Does it strike any one else as kind of odd that a draft dodging, university proffessor, from southern California, who lives in Calgary, has become the great hope of rural Alberta in this leadership race?

i dunno, is it any more odd than the fact an ivy league blue blood from Connecticut who spent most of his adult life in a substance abusing haze has become the champion of the southern christian right?

[lubicon]

This will be real interesting to watch. I'm not discounting Stelmlach (sp?), I just don't know much about him but the choice between Morton and Dinning is quite interesting, and choosing one over the other has the potential to split the PC party along ideological lines no matter which one wins (assuming one of them does).

If Morton wins the party could liklely swing more to the right and you could see a defection of so called 'red Tories' to the Liberals. At the same time the PC's could win back some of the support they are losing and have lost to the Alberta Alliance.

If Dinning wins the opposite may be true. The PC's could keep the 'Red' vote but risk losing even more support from teh right to the Alliance.

Either way they run the risk of losing support. I guess it boils down to which direction the party wants to head.

[Edmonchuck]

Why the assumption the rural Alberta is overtly religious? That is definitely the slant pushed by the media and the eastern political establishment, but is it based on fact? Again, my experience is that rural Alberta is probably less religious that most of Canada because it is younger and more mobile due to the economy. Do you think the average rural Albertan cares more about social issues such as same sex marriage or the $60K SUV and trip to Hawaii?

Um...yeah....rural Alberta...my home....the bastion of tolerance, and secularism.

No fewer than 10 churches in my small town. 500 people...nope, no religion here.

That tolerant crowd, which still brings out the "AIDS kills fags dead" Halloween costumes...

That secular voice...when the atheists and Buddhists and Hindu’s move in there are NO issues...

Never any backlash...no "gawd damn immgrants" comments coming from that world. No "Paki, Nigger, Chink, Spick, *insert group here*" slurs and jokes at all. Oh, and definitely no fun of people with disabilities is EVER made…:shrug:

I have never heard the comment "drive like a white man"....noooooo never. :(

Same sex marriage...yeah, that is going over REAL well. Try abortion...:whip:

Don't kid yourself Doug. Alberta's redneck rural areas may be overplayed in the media, but it is based on some real life experiences. All I have to do is go back west and sit in a couple of coffee shops for 10 minutes. Heck, I'll play a tape of a fake newscast of an edict from a politician saying that same sex marriages are legal everywhere now, and I'll get hell, fire and brimstone in seconds.

Rural Alberta is loosing its youth in droves, so I don’t know where you get the young hip thing. Spend some time in Dreadful Valley…yep, hip and urban is the norm…not. Rural Alberta is in trouble. It is looking for something to blame.

Enter Morton. He played on this and look at the results. Don't tell me that it doesn't exist. Try being agnostic and tolerant in a small town...just see what happens....I did. I go back to visit, and sure enough, it is still there…

Sure, there are those that want the $60K SUV, but the oil jobs have always been here. People quit school at 16 (or grade 9, whichever came first) way too often dwindling my grad class. There were the trucks with the glass packs and toys then (rah rah Apline)…It was like living Blazing Saddles…just not funny.

Sure, there are tolerant people, and it is slowly changing. But don’t think for one second that rural Alberta has truly come out of its dark ages…Don't beleive me, go to Killam and say you're gay.

[Stephen Ave]

^I agree very much with that assessment. I came out to Calgary from Ottawa fully expecting a redneck atmosphere, but was pleasantly surprised when it wasn't like that. It turned out to be not much different from Ottawa (the capital of political correctness). My expereinces in the small towns of Alberta has been much different. There is a huge difference from Rural Alberta and the two main cities.

[freeweed]

^I agree very much with that assessment. I came out to Calgary from Ottawa fully expecting a redneck atmosphere, but was pleasantly surprised when it wasn't like that. It turned out to be not much different from Ottawa (the capital of political correctness). My expereinces in the small towns of Alberta has been much different. There is a huge difference from Rural Alberta and the two main cities.

Agreed, too.

I think a big part of it is that most of Calgary's (and to some degree, Edmonton's) population isn't from here - we're all from different parts of the country originally - and many from other countries entirely. Rural Alberta is still the same old folk as it's always been, passing on their "values" to their children.

Even that's changing, though. People were surprisingly OK, if a bit uncomfortable, with Brokeback when it was being filmed - I didn't hear of any DIE FAGS type protests.

One oddity that tickled me though - Moslem kid I worked with a while back, his parents had sent him to Catholic school, in the hopes that he'd be taught better "traditional values". Just seemed a bit odd to me :) Says a fair bit about the diversity here, at any rate.

[SHOFEAR]

So does Morton's social conservative side cover the full spectrum of what bibble thumpers believe and want, or is he just focusing on SSM to win their votes? It seems it is the only issue he brings up and for me it's not an important enough issue to force me to vote against or for a guy.

[Edmonchuck]

Look at George as he tries to placate the Religious Right....

[itom 987]

I have relatives who live in rural southern Alberta and they gush about God at every chance they get.

[m0nkyman]

Put me firmly in the anybody-(except-the-Liberals)-but-Morton camp.

[Sammy]

Morton is in line with the Democratic Party and Republicans by and large. Now, for those who glance at Morton's policies on the surface you may not pick up on this - all Morton is proposing is what Ontario and Quebec already have. There is nothing particualry radical or bent about his policies. They are rather staid. As far as appealing to people who are religous or those who hold traditional values, welcome to overwhelming majority of North America.

Dining's campaign is trying smear Morton,. Why, because he would upset the establishment and more importantly Dining's campaign. Special interests and the like beware. Its politics. It is a blood sport and fun to watch.

Harper, our current Priminister is cut from the same cloth as Morton and appears to be leading Canada, even in a minority postion better than Matrin or Chretian. Harper is indeed a gifted leader who is adept at shifting a nation with an appealing overall strategy and cunning tactics.

The ruse that is being used in the press, that only Dining can lead Alberta to work together with Canada is ridiculous. Do you ever hear Ontario or Quebec being critized for wanting more (sometimes), or in the later demanding more or keeping the status quo? Morton's approach is trying to recitify the two nation status that Quebec and Ontario enjoy. He is seeking more equality among the provinces. What is wrong with that notion?

Any of the three top candidates will be O.K. I guess. Klein was OK. Actaually he did alot of great things for the Province, he just stayed in office too long. But the tendancy to over simplify what movement is a foot in this campaign is tiring. It is instructive if you want to find out what Morton believes to read F. A. Hayek, Ludwig Von Mies and and Bloom's "The Closing of the American Mind" for starters. You may find that after reading these materials and thinking about Canada's constitution you might want to be in Morton's camp.

What Morton really offers is right lite. Why he may appear radical to most in Canada, Bill Clinton policies would appear far right comapred to most politicians north of the 49th. Canadian political parties, even the conservatives are left of center. Overall the democrats are farther to the right, than the conservatives.

Do you remember what parties killed the Kyoto accord in the states? Who was President? The list of centrist or right of center policies is long for the Democrats. Canada is socialist to the core. Thats why I find Harper and Morton refreshing. Immersed in the Chicago School of thought such bright lights are healthy for this country and province. What this country needs is more thinking to the right, not less. Seperating the knee jerk headlines or trivial sterotypes and read the policies Morton proposes. I think they make sense. If you favor Engels and Marx, then you will probaly be happier with the status quo of where Canada has been heading since the 1960's. It hasn't worked that well in Europe and is pissing away much of the advantage Canada has had for some time.

What I like about Morton is that he offers ideas of how reduce costs in certain programs and reduce government spending. In a boom its easy to hand out money or cling to programs that don't work. As a country however, nationalistic programs have proven to be a dismal failure. The shelf life of a programs success lasts for only a few decades ubtil it bankrupts itself - the medicare program comes to mind, not to mention the gun registery.

What is wrong with allowing people who want to pay for private medical services to have that choice? Why not let people have that freedom to choose and remain in Canada to get medical services instead of flying down to the states for selective treatments. Give the people of Alberta choice instead of penalizing them because they are successful. The less fortunate will have even more room in the nationalized program with shorter waiting lines. Companies that want to offer its employees medical insurance can choose to provide it as a perk.

Trying principles that work well in the private sector and bringing in an solid business approach to government is what is needed. If you want Alberta to offer the best private and public schools, medical treatments, infrastructure . . . vote Morton.

[Wooster]

There are a couple of other really great articles in the opinion section of the Globe today. Great reads about the state of PC politics in Alberta. If someone with access could post those, that would be great.

Dinning scrambles to shore up support in Alberta runoff
Getting rural vote is key, front-runner says

KATHERINE HARDING AND DAWN WALTON

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

EDMONTON, CALGARY — Jim Dinning is the favoured successor to Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, but the Calgary businessman who was so badly embarrassed by Ted Morton's grassroots get-out-the-vote campaign scrambled yesterday to shore up support.

"What was a contest has now become a fight: a fight about Alberta's future and the future of the [Progressive Conservative] party, a fight about the values Albertans hold, and a fight about Alberta's role in Canada," the 53-year-old former provincial treasurer told a crowded banquet room of cheering fans in Edmonton. "Ted Morton's Alberta is not my Alberta."

Mr. Dinning called on his supporters and the 37 Tory MLAs who publicly endorse his leadership bid to work harder this Saturday during the party's second and final ballot vote, to get more voters to the polling stations, especially in rural Alberta where Mr. Morton is strong.

But Mr. Morton, an American-born political science professor with social conservative views, said the effort is too little, too late. Mr. Dinning has run out of steam, he insists, calling Saturday's results an "earthquake."
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"The fact of the matter is the race is no longer between Ted Morton and Jim Dinning. The race is between Ted Morton and Ed Stelmach," the 57-year-old Tory backbencher, who favours private health care and more powers for Alberta, told reporters in Calgary.

Mr. Stelmach, the soft-spoken Prairie farmer and former Klein cabinet minister placed third in weekend voting of close to 100,000 party members and has now attracted the support of the majority of the other losing candidates in the race.

"Seventy per cent of our party rejected the establishment status quo of Jim Dinning on Saturday night and, given the preferential ballot system we'll be using, the real race is between Ed and myself," Mr. Morton said.

Those votes, Mr. Morton predicted, will be divided between himself and Mr. Stelmach. However, he still expects "Liberal-style attacks" and "fear mongering" from Mr. Dinning and his camp in the coming days.

Mr. Morton surprised everyone by grabbing 26 per cent of the votes to come in second, something he attributed yesterday to distancing himself from the party's old guard and calling on the help of friends he has made at the federal level.

"There's no amount of money or backroom deal making that can't be overcome by good old-fashioned populist grassroots politics. We certainly don't have the large corporate donations of Jim Dinning. But we don't need them and we don't want them," he said, later adding that most of his donations are from individuals and range between $20 to $100 each.

"I've made a lot of friends and I've got a lot of help," Mr. Morton said, singling out Reform Party founder Preston Manning, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and former Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day as politicians whom he helped build a federal Conservative Party to challenge the Liberals.

He said he has been talking to Conservative activists in every federal riding in the province for the past 18 months. "My personal contacts with all of the thousands of people who built the Reform Party and continued with the Alliance and now the Conservative Party . . . have given us the provincewide organization. That surprised a lot of people I think on Saturday."

Mr. Morton also offered a pair of policy initiatives yesterday: a referendum during the October, 2007, municipal elections on what percentage of energy revenue should be socked away in the province's rainy-day fund, and a vote at the party meeting next March on including private health care as part of its health-care policy.

Gary Mar, a Klein cabinet minister and supporter of Mr. Dinning, said yesterday that he wouldn't get re-elected if Mr. Morton wins the leadership contest. The party, which has governed Alberta for 35 years, could also be at risk of losing a general election if Mr. Morton is in charge, the Red Tory predicted.

[Wooster]

Federal Tories fight for Morton
Click here to find out more!
PC party leadership candidate Ted Morton speaking during a press conference at his campaign headquarters, Monday.


Jason Fekete, with files from Tony Seskus, Calgary Herald, Calgary Herald
Published: Tuesday, November 28, 2006

A growing brigade of federal Tory MPs, including high-profile Jason Kenney, will storm back to Alberta this week to throw their political and organizational muscle behind Ted Morton in his fight for the Progressive Conservative reins and premiership.

In a move that political analysts suggest is bordering on a war between federal and provincial Tories, as many as a dozen Conservative members of Parliament could flee Ottawa this week to stump for Morton heading into Saturday's hotly contested leadership vote.

And the man in many MPs' crosshairs is front-runner Jim Dinning, who scored huge votes in Calgary and led Morton after last Saturday's first ballot.

"The difference is (Morton) is a guy governed not by the interests of insiders, but by principles and a desire to plug into the common sense of the common people," Kenney, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's right-hand man, said Monday in an interview from Ottawa. "That really represents the vital force of the national party in Alberta."

Dinning was quick to fight back, assailing Morton's policies and leadership abilities in a speech in Edmonton.

"Ted Morton's Alberta is not mine," he told supporters.

Kenney noted that he likes and respects Dinning, but said it's unfortunate he's "the candidate of the past" who reflects the status quo.

"Ted isn't just seeking the premiership for the sake of being premier," said Kenney. "he's seeking it to change things -- which is the fundamental difference between himself and Jim Dinning."

Kenney, the parliamentary secretary to Harper, is one of a number of Alberta Tory MPs who've said they'll head back to Calgary from Ottawa as early as Wednesday, when the House of Commons adjourns for the week.

Dinning, however, also has some of Alberta's 28 Tory MPs on his side, including Calgary's Lee Richardson and Deepak Obhrai, as well as John Williams from the Edmonton area, who said he'll do his best to aid the former provincial treasurer's campaign.

A senior official in the Dinning camp said they're paying little attention to who's supporting their competitors' teams and argued Morton's federal support "is not a big deal."

"Who's working on who's campaign is not what this is about," said Brent Shervey, chairman of Dinning's campaign. "It's about the issues and what each of these guys stand for."

Not to be lost in the tussle is Ed Stelmach, the third candidate on the second ballot for the Alberta Tory leadership, who has the support of a number of provincial Tories.

Nonetheless, sources tell the Herald about a dozen federal Conservative MPs will rush back to Alberta in the coming days to help Morton capture Premier Ralph Klein's crown.

"I would be surprised if it weren't more (than a dozen)," said Calgary Tory MP Rob Anders.

"I'm doing all I can. I see nothing wrong with that -- we're Albertans, you know," said outspoken Alberta Conservative MP Myron Thompson.

Certainly, the battle for the Tory leadership is proving to be not only a struggle of competing conservative visions -- but also two different Conservative parties within Alberta.

Much like Morton's supporters, many MPs on his side subscribe to more grassroots, big-C conservative philosophies of libertarianism and traditional social values long championed by the former Reform and Canadian Alliance parties.

Morton's main sparring partner is Dinning, whose just-as-impressive team is largely based on Peter Lougheed's style of small-c conservatism.

"It's a Reform party takeover in provincial politics," said David Taras, political analyst at the University of Calgary, adding the city could prove to be a battleground of epic proportions between these "two very different" visions for the party.

"This is the heavy ammunition coming in. Morton is bringing in the cannons and they're going to fire away in Calgary," Taras said. "Calgary is going to be at war with itself."

Dinning gave a passionate speech in Edmonton on Monday where he took aim at Morton.

While Morton has no MLAs endorsing him yet, Dinning has won support from the majority of the provincial Tory cabinet and caucus who've been able to use their constituency teams to provide a well-sewn blanket of support.

"What was a contest has now become a fight, -- a fight about Alberta's future, a fight about the values Albertans hold and a fight about Alberta's role in Canada," Dinning said.

But Kenney took more piercing shots at Dinning and questioned his record. He targeted him for a corporate cheque and letter of support he sent in 2002 to Paul Martin's Liberal leadership campaign on behalf of his employer at the time.

"When Jim Dinning was sending $25,000 to Paul Martin's leadership campaign and personal notes of encouragement, Ted Morton was working down here with us in the Canadian Alliance to be a strong voice in Ottawa."

jfekete@theherald.canwest.com

------------------------

Jason Kenney, Myron Thompson, and Rob Anders are stumping for Morton. That should tell you everything you need to know about Morton's politics.

I implore people in Alberta right now regardless of political stripe to join the PC party temprarily to vote against Morton. Dinning first preference, Stelmach second.

:help: :omg:

[duper]

I implore people in Alberta right now regardless of political stripe to join the PC party temprarily to vote against Morton. Dinning first preference, Stelmach second.

Aren't there rules that discourage that? I assume most parties have cutoff dates for joining.

[The Chemist]

Aren't there rules that discourage that? I assume most parties have cutoff dates for joining.

Nope, not here. You pays your $5, you gets to vote.

And yes, anybody that has Rob 'Mandela is a terrorist' Anders, Jason 'Look at me, I'm high profile now!' Kenny, and Myron 'You can take my hat out of my cold dead hands' Thompson supporting them IS scary, and is not the kind of leader this province needs.

Morton will split the party, and will be horrifically bad for this province.

[duper]

^
Then some Edmontonians and Calgarians need to start canvassing. Religious and socially conservative organizations are very organized.

[freeweed]

Funny comment in the Globe & Mail today:

Dr. Morton (who holds a PhD from the University of Toronto and is the author of scores of scholarly papers and books) has shed his academic gown. He implores Albertans to start "supportin' Morton," and even his country-and-western campaign song, Ted Morton Is the Man, plays upon the tired theme, proclaiming that an Alberta led by Dr. Morton would be a place "where the east blowin' wind won't knock us off stride" because Dr. Morton would be there "protecting us all the best way he can." All that's missing in this picture is a sprig of barley between Dr. Morton's teeth.

I realize the G&M tends to be just a tad more liberal and Ontario-centric than most papers, but still - this one made me chuckle.

Does this goofball seriously use C&W to promote himself? Yeah, that'll help dispell the redneck stereotypes!

[mersar]

Nope, not here. You pays your $5, you gets to vote.

And to the extent you can hand over your $5 as they hand you the ballot to fill in. Theres a huge push this week to signup even more members to try to swing it one way or another.

I think whats likely to be the major swing factor is how Stelmach plays this week out. While I can't see him doing what every news organization tends to think he will do, specifically dropping out of the race, how he handles the debate on Thursday may be a major indication of where his future lays.

Dinning himself is appearing quite arogant in my opinion however, especially if what they mention on QR this morning was his real reaction to being invited to an on-air debate with Morton and Stelmach... from what they said he viewed it as a waste of time. The other 2 however were more then agreeable to participate.

[Wooster]

I really wonder how the second choice votes are going to go. The lowest of the three on the second ballot if none of the three reach 50% + 1 is dropped off and the second choices on those ballots for that candidate are applied to the totals of the other two. For example if Stelmech places third, I really wonder who those voters second preferences will be. Tipped more toward Morton or Dinning. There seems to be an anybody but Morton movement abound. If that is true is it safe to say those votes would push Dinning over the edge?

[duper]

There seems to be an anybody but Morton movement abound. If that is true is it safe to say those votes would push Dinning over the edge?

Let's hope so.

I love how Morton tries to portray himself as a political outsider, confronting the political elitists. Sure, Mr. Calgary School / Reform Party Senator in waiting / former Canadian Alliance policy director.... :rolleyes:

[jeffwhit]

By the way, even though it seems like a great deal of Alberta forumers don't want to vote conservative no matter what (me especially), it is a pretty important election. PC memberships can be purchased for $5 at the polling station the day of the second ballot. If Morton scares you so much go vote Dinning, and your membership expires upon the New Year, and you can quietly forget you were ever a card carrying Conservative.

[Wooster]

^ Is that what you're going to do?

[vaportrail]

...
If Morton scares you so much go vote Dinning, and your membership expires upon the New Year, and you can quietly forget you were ever a card carrying Conservative.
You can bet that most Morton-phobic Edmonton-area voters will be be marking Stelmach first and Dinning second. Good to know about the end-of-year expiry.

[marts1x]

I'm voting Morton, hes a traditional Tory unlike the Leftwing Dinning. I changed my mind after looking at their policies. Last thing we need is more social spending and bigger provincial govt thats where we ran into problems in the late 80's early 90's.

I find it funny how the easterners flocking to our province are starting to change us politically now. I realize its against Trudeau's mulitcultural bs but I would rather have people assimilate to Alberta rather then keep there old attitudes.
As much as the national media has tried to scare us away from a right wing politician again there is still a large amount of support for Morton. So hopefully people dont buy the propoganda and vote on substance rather then flare.

[Wooster]

I'm voting Morton, hes a traditional Tory unlike the Leftwing Dinning. I changed my mind after looking at their policies. Last thing we need is more social spending and bigger provincial govt thats where we ran into problems in the late 80's early 90's.

I find it funny how the easterners flocking to our province are starting to change us politically now. I realize its against Trudeau's mulitcultural bs but I would rather have people assimilate to Alberta rather then keep there old attitudes.
As much as the national media has tried to scare us away from a right wing politician again there is still a large amount of support for Morton. So hopefully people dont buy the propoganda and vote on substance rather then flare.

:stunned:

[Rusty van Reddick]

Yeah, you look up "left-wing" in the dictionary and there's Dinning's picture.

[jeffwhit]

^ Is that what you're going to do?
Exactly what I am going to do, and most of my co-workers as well.

[jeffwhit]

I'm voting Morton, hes a traditional Tory unlike the Leftwing Dinning. I changed my mind after looking at their policies. Last thing we need is more social spending and bigger provincial govt thats where we ran into problems in the late 80's early 90's.

I find it funny how the easterners flocking to our province are starting to change us politically now. I realize its against Trudeau's mulitcultural bs but I would rather have people assimilate to Alberta rather then keep there old attitudes.
As much as the national media has tried to scare us away from a right wing politician again there is still a large amount of support for Morton. So hopefully people dont buy the propoganda and vote on substance rather then flare.
I was born and raised in Calgary and I'm what you might consider left-wing, explain that one.

[vaportrail]

...
I find it funny how the easterners flocking to our province are starting to change us politically now. I realize its against Trudeau's mulitcultural bs but I would rather have people assimilate to Alberta rather then keep there old attitudes.
...
Speaking of old attitudes ...

The province of Alberta (let alone Canada) has been built by a continual influx of immigrants. As such, the "essence" of Alberta has continued to evolve with input from all who have come. No matter from whence people arrive, it is next to impossible to avoid "assimilation" past one generation.

Anyone who grows up here will be Albertan with all its social and political customs, attitudes and nuances.

To suggest a bias against anything culturally new or different is the kind of xenophobic attitude stereotypically associated with rural people and the religious right. (Yet to suggest that religion-bent worshipers of today would be considered heretics in past centuries in cultures of the same religion would likely evoke blank stares or perhaps something less effacing.)

What's funny is that nothing stays the same ... except for some people's old attitudes.

[marts1x]

Speaking of old attitudes ...

The province of Alberta (let alone Canada) has been built by a continual influx of immigrants. As such, the "essence" of Alberta has continued to evolve with input from all who have come. No matter from whence people arrive, it is next to impossible to avoid "assimilation" past one generation.

Anyone who grows up here will be Albertan with all its social and political customs, attitudes and nuances.

To suggest a bias against anything culturally new or different is the kind of xenophobic attitude stereotypically associated with rural people and the religious right. (Yet to suggest that religion-bent worshipers of today would be considered heretics in past centuries in cultures of the same religion would likely evoke blank stares or perhaps something less effacing.)

What's funny is that nothing stays the same ... except for some people's old attitudes.

I got nothing against new ideas, but they should be merged with our older ideas. Just how many people do you know take the time to understand all the different cultures and backgrounds of anyone else around you. Most people just feel warm and fuzzy because they pretend they are happy with a multi-cultural immigration based society but they avoid having to really embrace it.

[vaportrail]

I got nothing against new ideas, but they should be merged with our older ideas.
I think if you reread my post you'd discover I've suggested this is inevitable.

Just how many people do you know take the time to understand all the different cultures and backgrounds of anyone else around you. Most people just feel warm and fuzzy because they pretend they are happy with a multi-cultural immigration based society but they avoid having to really embrace it.
Pretending, are they? I suggest avoidance doesn't enter into it as the more apt the extant culture is to accepting differences, the quicker any differences become one with the extant culture. Issue resolved. ;)

[Jay in Cowtown]

Rural Alberta is still the same old folk as it's always been, passing on their "values" to their children.



Some of us move to the city, marry tiny little assed city girls, live in $550 000 houses and drive SUV's ... but we never forget our "values"!!!

[Rusty van Reddick]

Most people just feel warm and fuzzy because they pretend they are happy with a multi-cultural immigration based society but they avoid having to really embrace it.

Ted Morton is an immigrant.

[m0nkyman]

I am your typical gun-owning NDP/Conservative westerner. I'd piss on Trudeau's grave in a hot second. I'm firmly against big government. And, like the vast majority of westerners, I believe in the kind of social justice and quite frankly socialism that drove the rural west to create and support the CCF.

This BS that social conservatism has anything to do with the typical Western Canadian libertarian streak is just that. It's the reason that BC swings dramatically between the NDP and whatever the newest incarnation of Social Credit is.

Generally speaking, the West is built on social tolerance, fiscal conservatism and a willingness and ability to give your neighbour a hand up.

Ted Morton's conservatism misses the mark on the first and last of that trinity, and for that reason, I will not support him, and have actively opposed him for some time now. Ralph Klein managed to create a province that was built on the middle principle, and never actually did anything against the first or last, despite pretending to, except by a sort of benign neglect. How many tilts did Klein make at the National Health Care windmill without actually doing anything?

Electing Ted Morton will destroy the Conservative Party in Alberta, and my greatest nightmare is that we may end up with the statist Liberals doing their damndest to 'manage' the economy into the ground. I'd prefer to see the NDP first, 'cause at least they'd do some good while wrecking the economy. The Liberals would just funnel the money East.

[e909]

I voted for Ted Morton on the first ballot, will do the same this weekend.
ditto.

[Edmonchuck]

You can bet that most Morton-phobic Edmonton-area voters will be be marking Stelmach first and Dinning second.


..and this has no more basis than your own meandering thoughts???

WTF makes you think Ted does not have a strong showing here as well? :rolleyes: Dinning does have a lot of support here too.

My worry is that the Dinning/Stelmach vote split will be the factor.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Either than the 11:00 news in bed for sports and weather, I rarely watch local anything, so I really didn't give this election any attention... but after reading this thread and checking out the candidates official sites...

It's Morton all the way for me!!!

Thanks for waking my ass up!

[Jay in Cowtown]

Ted Morton is an immigrant.

I don't consider Americans immigrants!!!

[Edmonchuck]

Legally, they are. ;)

[freeweed]

I don't consider Americans immigrants!!!

Sorry, but if that's truly the case, you're either incredibly stupid, or incredibly racist.

Every single person in Alberta, by definition of the word, is either an immigrant, or a very close descendent of immigrants. You *might* be so lucky as to be 4th or 5th generation, if you're one of the select few.

Any other use of the term immigrant ... I won't even get into this. Please fucking leave before you re-inforce the "ignorant racist redneck" stereotype even more. Alberta doesn't need you, and most of the people here don't share your views.

Man, I don't even NEED to read Morton's platform if this is the kind of support he's getting.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Sorry, but if that's truly the case, you're either incredibly stupid, or incredibly racist.

Every single person in Alberta, by definition of the word, is either an immigrant, or a very close descendent of immigrants. You *might* be so lucky as to be 4th or 5th generation, if you're one of the select few.

Any other use of the term immigrant ... I won't even get into this. Please fucking leave before you re-inforce the "ignorant racist redneck" stereotype even more. Alberta doesn't need you, and most of the people here don't share your views.

Man, I don't even NEED to read Morton's platform if this is the kind of support he's getting.


Wow!!! What in the fuck is your problem... Asswipe!!!

FYI... I was speaking in terms of how almost everything here is like America... ie: the vehicles you drive, what you watch on T.V., the stores you shop in... and that is why I wouldn't consider someone from a place we have so much in common with... an immigrant!!!

You want to call me out again, you Fuckface... or just meet me somewhere so I can slap the bong outta your fucking hands!

[vaportrail]

..and this has no more basis than your own meandering thoughts???
Uuuuh, yes, that's correct. Meandering thoughts.

WTF makes you think Ted does not have a strong showing here as well? :rolleyes: Dinning does have a lot of support here too.
I believe I said twat about Morton's Edmonton constituency. Apparently you have meandering-thought issues of your own.

But since you brought it up, wise ass. Stelmach, Hancock and Norris - the latter two now endorsing Stelmach - had roughly half the Edmonton vote. Combined they would have won all but three Edmonton districts. Morton, on the other hand, won no Edmonton districts and had fewer Edmonton votes than any of those three individually.

Meander to your own conclusion.

My worry is that the Dinning/Stelmach vote split will be the factor.
I'd worry too if it weren't for the second ballot format. I don't think Morton has 50% of the vote and those voting for Dinning and Stelmach appear unlikely to mark Morton as second choice.

[dubiousmike]

Jesus motherfucking Christ.

Somebody lock this retard carnival. Pretty please.