Public Transit Not Wheelchair-Friendly

[M II A II R II K]

Public Transit Not Wheelchair-Friendly

NEW YORK — When Michael Harris powered his motorized wheelchair off the No. 5 subway train at a station in Brooklyn, he found that the elevator to the street was broken.

He turned to a station agent for help and was told to try backtracking three stops to the next-closest station with a working lift.

Harris called 911 instead, summoning a team of firefighters who hoisted his 300-pound wheelchair to the surface and carried him up on a gurney, "like the ones they use to carry dead bodies out of burning buildings," he said.

To many, the episode last week might seem like an overreaction, but Harris said he was simply fed up with repeated breakdowns and unhelpful workers in a transit system that is barely wheelchair-friendly to begin with.

"If you're stuck on a platform with no way to get out, what if there's a fire?" said Harris, 22, a coordinator for an advocacy group called the Disabled Riders Coalition.

The problems wheelchair users experience in New York have been echoed in other cities with old public transit systems, including Boston and Chicago, which both have been hit with lawsuits.

New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority has been working for nearly two decades to make its century-old subway system accessible to people with disabilities, but activists say the effort has been slow and fraught with problems.

Just 55 of the system's 468 subway stations are considered wheelchair-accessible, and equipment failures are routine in those stations. A report issued in August said the elevators in Manhattan's 23 accessible stations experienced 3,374 service outages from 2002 to 2005. In 2005, the average elevator was out of service for a cumulative 13 days, according to the report by the office of Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer.

New York City Transit spokeswoman Deidre Parker said the agency is doing what it can to change a system built during an era when people gave little thought to accommodating people with disabilities.

By law, the MTA must have at least 100 key stations fully wheelchair-accessible by 2020. Parker said the authority is on track to meet that target, although it won't be easy or cheap.

As for broken or vandalized elevators, the MTA has a 24-hour rapid response repair team. It also maintains a telephone information line with a list of outages, but Parker acknowledged that some passengers still occasionally find themselves stranded unexpectedly.

"I'm sure that for someone who is disabled and depends on these elevators, once is too much," she said.

Parker said evacuations of stranded passengers by firefighters are rare.

Activists in Boston filed suit in 2002 over broken elevators and inaccessible stations for trains and buses run by the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. The MBTA settled the suit in April by agreeing to spend more than $310 million on station upgrades and better maintenance.

In Chicago, several groups sued over access for the disabled, citing poorly maintained and frequently out-of-service lifts. The Chicago Transit Authority agreed to a series of changes, including extending the hours when repairs were made and installing devices that make it easier for wheelchair users to get on and off trains.

"It's far from perfect, but we definitely felt like we got some improvements," said Laura Miller, managing attorney for the Illinois-based access group Equip for Equality.

Even with improvements, riding public transit in a city like New York may never be easy for passengers like Harris. On a ride uptown from City Hall on Tuesday, he had to take a roundabout route involving three trains to get to the wheelchair-accessible station in Herald Square.

Some fellow passengers on packed platforms smiled, others grumbled and reluctantly stepped out of his way.

Does he schedule trips to avoid rush hour crowds?

"Nope," he said. "I have as much of a right to be here as anyone else."

[mhays]

Wheelchairs make buses more expensive to build, take away seating capacity, and cause schedule problems.

I advocate a separate wheelchair system. If only ADA would go away.

I realize this is extremely non-pc in a country where the very existence of a wheelchair person prompts standing ovations and whispers of "he's so courageous!"

[Keith P.]

Wheelchairs make buses more expensive to build, take away seating capacity, and cause schedule problems.

I advocate a separate wheelchair system. If only ADA would go away.


This is exactly right. There is no sense compromising a service for 99.9% of its customers for the sake of a tiny group who may someday decide they want to use it. Give them their own system and leave our buses alone.

[Matty]

The bus system can take you anywhere in the city. It's simply not practical to try and outfit and make every subway station wheelchair accesible when we already have a system in place that they can use. The elevators that are already there, however, should always, ALWAYS, be kept in proper working order.

[zilfondel]

I'm pretty sure that over .1% of Americans are handicapped or have difficulties walking. Also, it sure as hell isn't going away - in fact, it will probably become even more important as the current baby boomer generation ages and grows more dependent upon public facilities to get their crippled fat asses around.

If a transit agency - or any company or public agency - is this incompetent at meeting ADA (NYC floated a $10 BILLION bond to upgrade their subway & transit stations), then they perfectly well deserve to be sued out of existence!

If it's that bad, build a new subway system.

[Cirrus]

If it's that bad, build a new subway system.
You're kidding, right?

In DC when elevators break they offer shuttles from the next closest station w/ a working lift. Seems like a fine compromise to me. Considering how much time wheelchair users take from the rest of us on the bus, I don't have a big problem with making them take an extra step once in a while when something is broken.

[ChrisLA]

This is exactly right. There is no sense compromising a service for 99.9% of its customers for the sake of a tiny group who may someday decide they want to use it. Give them their own system and leave our buses alone.

Tell that to my cousin who's in a wheelchair and she'll make you feel 2 feet tall when she's done. I like taking public transportation and the accomodations here in LA and in San Francisco is much better than anything I've seen in Chicago or NYC. There are elevators at all subway and above ground and underground lightrail stations. I was able to get her on the subway and the Metrolink once here in LA, but she's still thinks its better to drive her own car. Often I tell my cousin she should visit NYC, but the fact that she feels it isn't wheelchair accessable so she won't go. She could rent a car as she does every city she travels to, but again she feel places like Chicago and NYC won't be easy for her just hopping curves and getting in and out of the stores. She flew to San Francisco for a mini vacation with her young son. She did not rent a car, but took a cab and buses instead. She reported it was really easy to roll onto the buses and that San Francisco was really easy for a person in a wheelchair (hills excluded). She also visit New Orleans a lot, but there she rents a car. I do know she rolls down Bourborn Street in her chair and hang out in the French Quarters. I would suspect its difficult in N.O. but since I've never been and she keeps going back they must have something in place to accomodate a wheelchair.

[volguus zildrohar]

My experience with ADA compliance here in Philadelphia is that it essentially allows lazy people to be lazier. Elevators ultimately become one more thing for SEPTA to fix and I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw someone in a wheelchair or with any visible physical handicap using a subway elevator or preferential subway seating. Buses, however, get used at a somewhat regular clip. It does surprise me just how much space and time the ADA spaces occupy when engaged (it's even worse when a bus operator requires assistance from other passengers in engaging the securing devices) for how little they're comparitively used.

[mersar]

While it probaly wouldn't work well on larger systems, the system that Calgary has for the elevators on its stations that require them (pretty much all but 6 outside the core) requires being buzzed access to the elevators by someone at operations who is viewing the elevator area over a camera. This stops pretty much anyone who would take it for the heck of it, versus actually needing it, from abusing it.

I also agree, any of the stations that have elevators should be kept working as close to 100% of the time as possible.

[mhays]

Tell that to my cousin who's in a wheelchair and she'll make you feel 2 feet tall when she's done.

That would be a moderately uncomfortable discussion, but our points are no less true.

There should be a good van service for the handicapped, rather than retrofitting and permanently diminishing the whole transit system. My way would be a tiny cost comparatively. Even with a call-based system, the initial wait time would be comparable to waiting for the bus, and the service would be door-to-door and therefore better. And no extra waiting for everyone else.

[zaphod]

I know if I ever found myself disabled I would find a seperate system/special vans/whatever extremely patronizing and would stay as far away from it as possible. But its just my nature to pissed about just about everything, and most others are probably different.

I agree, its not really an option to completely retrofit a old system to be totally ADA compatible, but if you have elevators crapping out on a regular basis across the country some changes need to be made. Of course like anything will actually happen at the end of the day

Shit Happens


While it probaly wouldn't work well on larger systems, the system that Calgary has for the elevators on its stations that require them (pretty much all but 6 outside the core) requires being buzzed access to the elevators by someone at operations who is viewing the elevator area over a camera. This stops pretty much anyone who would take it for the heck of it, versus actually needing it, from abusing it.

Now thats a clever idea.

[seaskyfan]

Sounds like folks are blaming riders with disabilities for the failures of transit agencies.

I use the buses frequently in Seattle and it's not unusual to see wheelchair riders on my routes. The vast majority of wheelchair riders are able to get on and off very quickly, and all of the bus drivers I've seen in action knew how to get the wheelchairs secured quickly.

I also know folks who use the Access service from King County Metro (our local transit agency) which is a call ahead van for people with disabilities. My understanding is that it's designed for folks who are unable to easily use a regular bus. The folks I know who use it say it works pretty well but you need to plan all your trips ahead of time (at least one full day in advance).

We're all likely to experience some mobility impairment at some point in our lives. The ADA is the law of the land and agencies need to comply with it.

[M II A II R II K]

The TTC is obligated to have all stations, busses and subway trains wheelchair accessable by 2010.

It's not really a disruption and plus the elderly and those with strollers end up benefitting from these accomodations more often than the disabled anyway so it's better for everyone.

[ChrisLA]

Sounds like folks are blaming riders with disabilities for the failures of transit agencies.

I use the buses frequently in Seattle and it's not unusual to see wheelchair riders on my routes. The vast majority of wheelchair riders are able to get on and off very quickly, and all of the bus drivers I've seen in action knew how to get the wheelchairs secured quickly.

I also know folks who use the Access service from King County Metro (our local transit agency) which is a call ahead van for people with disabilities. My understanding is that it's designed for folks who are unable to easily use a regular bus. The folks I know who use it say it works pretty well but you need to plan all your trips ahead of time (at least one full day in advance).

We're all likely to experience some mobility impairment at some point in our lives. The ADA is the law of the land and agencies need to comply with it.

Amen!

I don't think its fair too that someone in a wheelchair shouldn't have the option of taking the regular bus or train. What if they wanted to go along with their family or friends.

I too see the same thing here in the LA metro, lots of people in wheelchairs taking the buses and the trains. Most of the bus fleet of the Long Beach Transit are those low level buses and have the ability to lower the the bus to meet the sidewalk and also extend the floor out so they can easily roll into the bus. Also the drivers are pretty well used to locking them in. It doesn't take long at all and I haven't see where its caused any delays or make the buses late. In fact I can say the majority of the times I've taken the bus I usually see at least one person in a wheelchair board.

I kind of get the feeling its more common to see wheelchairs on buses and trains on the west coast. Perhaps maybe also in the southern cities where they trains systems are new and the cities growth occured after the ADA went into effect. The younger cities are more accomodating to these people. Even my cousin said she would never move to an eastern city for that very reason. She drive her own car, but its all of the other facilities they although have some sort of access for wheelchairs it can be difficult.

I think if you're aren't in their shoes it hard to understand. I notice these things more just because we go places together and I see what she has to deal with on a daily basis. Another big problem is when idiots park in handicap parking spaces that shouldn't be there. Or when some idiot feel its okay to park in the same stall (because its wide and no other place to park) as someone in a wheelchair. Then there are the ones who park so close on the driver side. This has happen many times to my cousin, and if no one is with her she can't get though to open the driver door to hop in. Many times I have to back her car out of the stall and block traffic so she will have enough room to get in. What gets me is these same idiots will have an attitude when she had to find the person to move.

[miketoronto]

One of the reasons to have accessable service is to take the burden off of the special transit services designed for people in wheelchairs.

In Toronto, the special bus service for people in wheelchairs can not keep up.

So by retrofitting regular transit, you can take some of the pressure off the special services and it is cheaper to have them on normal transit.

The only thing that bugs me is the buses with the lifts. The low floor buses allow peopel to board fast. But when someone in a wheelchair needs to get on a lift equiped bus, it takes forever.

My only issue is that people are not using the services. We are building elevators, low floor buses, etc. And yet I can count on my hand how many times I have actually seen someone in a wheelchair use the services.
They are hardly used at all in Toronto.

I have visited NYC, and Hamilton, Ontario, and I always see people in wheelchairs using the system there.

But in T.O. you are hard pressed to see anyone using it, which makes it look like a big waste of money.

[texcolo]

The only thing that bugs me is the buses with the lifts. The low floor buses allow peopel to board fast. But when someone in a wheelchair needs to get on a lift equiped bus, it takes forever.

How do you think the guy in the wheelchair feels? Everywhere he goes???

This is exactly right. There is no sense compromising a service for 99.9% of its customers for the sake of a tiny group who may someday decide they want to use it. Give them their own system and leave our buses alone.

I think it's worth the cost. This .01% you claim would be shacked up inside a convelescent home 24 hours a day.

I think the ADA is liberation for people, and it makes moving furniture, riding bikes and getting around easier for everyone.

[glowrock]

I agree, texcolo... The ADA, by and large, has been a major benefit to not only the handicapped/disabled, but also to the elderly, and young parents with strollers and the like.

Sure, the ADA has its problems, there's no doubt about that. Sometimes, I think the requirements need to be relaxed a bit in some situations where retrofitting to meet the standards would be prohibitively expensive or destroy certain aspects of the architecture of the building/site. However, these negatives are far outweighed by the overall positives of the ADA.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Keith P.]

Sorry, it's mostly politically-correct nonsense. You take a bus service using 45-seat buses and replace them with 32-seat low-floors that force everyone to stand and are designed so poorly (in the case of the Nova LFS) that they can't travel on snowy streets. You take routes that struggle to stay on time at the best of times and make sure they will always be late because it takes 5 minutes to load and unload someone in a chair. Yes, it may make you and others feel better about these poor folks -- but it makes no sense at all. As for liberation, tell that to all the poor folks trapped in chairs during the WTC disaster. There are certain things that people in chairs will never be able to do regardless of how many laws we pass and we are doing them a disservice pretending that a law will make all the bad go away. I'm talking common sense and practicality here. NYC spends 10 billion dollars in capital for the necessary improvements? Cripes, how many disabled people are there in NYC? How many wheelchair vans and drivers would that buy to give them personal service? Let's give our heads a shake and face facts.

[J Church]

I don't think some folks realize just how expensive paratransit is to operate. In San Francisco I believe it costs somewhere on the order of $25 per rider.

[zilfondel]

If it's that bad, build a new subway system.
You're kidding, right?

In DC when elevators break they offer shuttles from the next closest station w/ a working lift. Seems like a fine compromise to me. Considering how much time wheelchair users take from the rest of us on the bus, I don't have a big problem with making them take an extra step once in a while when something is broken.

Of course I'm kidding! I don't even want to know how much it would cost.

However, accessibility for people is not a joke! With the growing number of retiring baby boomers comprising a larger & larger % of the USA's population, many of them have severe mobility issues (remember, this was the generation grown up in the car, so they should have far more severe issues than the previous generation due to lack of exercise).

Not only that, but all of the veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that are missing arms, legs, and other body parts. Is it really acceptable in our country to just yell "mind the gap!" and hope nobody falls in - like other countries do?

Are we going to win people over to mass transit by having inaccessible transit systems? You know, poor accessibility also impacts able-bodied people... it's not just about elevators.

[mhays]

We should go to reasonable lengths to make life easier for the handicapped. But not to anywhere near the lengths we currently go to. I agree that it's overly-PC BS.

[DiggerD21]

Wheelchairs in buses are not a problem in german public transport busses. Mostly there is space for one wheelchair. In case it is not used by a wheelchairdriver, it can be used as standing place of several other passengers. Also there are often two fold-away seats. And wheelchairdrivers only have to apply their brakes, no help needed by the busdriver. So I don't see what's the problem here.

[alexjon]

Um, you wouldn't be able to use elevators in the case of a fire, anyway.

[jeicow]

If the Burger King in the mall near me can have an elevator for wheelchairs, I don't see why a publicly funded transit system can't have one either. It's not like they aren't paying taxes, or paying the same fare as a regular rider. Transit systems should discriminate equally (we all suffer late buses no matter what colour your skin is, or what religion you are) and there is no reason why they should stop one group of people from using the system. In the long run the need for more accessible systems will increase as the Baby Boomers get old and cranky, so even if a miracle doesn't happen overnight, the overall system should be moving towards more wheelchair friendly.

[Swede]

Wheelchairs in buses are not a problem in german public transport busses. Mostly there is space for one wheelchair. In case it is not used by a wheelchairdriver, it can be used as standing place of several other passengers. Also there are often two fold-away seats. And wheelchairdrivers only have to apply their brakes, no help needed by the busdriver. So I don't see what's the problem here.
Only space for one? Most busses in Stockholm have room for two, tho that's not how we think of it - it's mainly used for baby strollers.
And since Stockholm's subway is all post-war, it was built with escalators and elevators at almost all exits. So handicap-access isn't something that'll cost extra, it already being there.

[VivaLFuego]

Tell that to my cousin who's in a wheelchair and she'll make you feel 2 feet tall when she's done. I like taking public transportation and the accomodations here in LA and in San Francisco is much better than anything I've seen in Chicago or NYC. There are elevators at all subway and above ground and underground lightrail stations. I was able to get her on the subway and the Metrolink once here in LA, but she's still thinks its better to drive her own car. Often I tell my cousin she should visit NYC, but the fact that she feels it isn't wheelchair accessable so she won't go. She could rent a car as she does every city she travels to, but again she feel places like Chicago and NYC won't be easy for her just hopping curves and getting in and out of the stores. She flew to San Francisco for a mini vacation with her young son. She did not rent a car, but took a cab and buses instead. She reported it was really easy to roll onto the buses and that San Francisco was really easy for a person in a wheelchair (hills excluded). She also visit New Orleans a lot, but there she rents a car. I do know she rolls down Bourborn Street in her chair and hang out in the French Quarters. I would suspect its difficult in N.O. but since I've never been and she keeps going back they must have something in place to accomodate a wheelchair.

At the risk of getting defensive, I'll point out that Chicago's bus system is 100% accessible with well over 50% of the buses of the low-floor design, which is pretty damn good considering the size of the operation. Our train system is also now well over 50% accessible, which is good progress considering our system is the same vintage as NYC's.

ADA-compliance adds an insane amount to the cost of building/refurbishing a station......which is money that US transit agencies just don't have (we're talking $20-30 million per station for maybe a couple handicap riders per day). What's wrong with a 100% accessible bus system, then upgrade old rail stations when feasible but not breaking our backs or budget over it?

[DiggerD21]

Only space for one? Most busses in Stockholm have room for two, tho that's not how we think of it - it's mainly used for baby strollers.

Maybe also two would fit in. At least there is space for two baby strollers. However I have never seen two passengers in wheelchairs at once in a bus (because there was always only one waiting at the busstop). Interestingly I have rarely seen "normal" wheelchairs in the bus, only those broad electric-powered ones for severely handicapped people.

[Smiley Person]

maybe it's only a bay area thing, but hardly a day goes by here without seeing a wheelchair on the bus or train. the drivers have gotten it down so loading and unloading only takes about 2 minutes.

also, making transit accessible is also good for people who don't have a car, as it makes it much easier to carry lots of stuff when going shopping or to the airport.

[ChrisLA]

maybe it's only a bay area thing, but hardly a day goes by here without seeing a wheelchair on the bus or train. the drivers have gotten it down so loading and unloading only takes about 2 minutes.

also, making transit accessible is also good for people who don't have a car, as it makes it much easier to carry lots of stuff when going shopping or to the airport.

Its pretty much the same think here in Los Angeles, its very common. I don't take public transporatation everyday now. Although when I did, there was always someone boarding in a wheelchair. Its just easier for someone handicapped to use public transporatation in cities like LA, San Francisco because our subways and light rail are more modern systems than NYC, Boston, Philly, or Chicago. The newer systems were built with wheelchair access in mind. Now that many of LA buses both MTA and many of the suburban transits have the newer low floor buses. Its much easier and quicker for some one a wheelchair to board that it doesn't slow down the boarding process.

[nito]

In Britain, most stations tend to be wheelchair accessible and most trains either have no-gap access, or ramps that allow passengers to board. The stations that tend to be the least accessible are those deep underground (ie the old deep-level London Underground stations) where the original lift shafts were replaced by escalators to speed up journeys from street level to platform level. Fortunately some of these stations are having access improved for wheelchair users, but naturally they are expensive and timely projects and those that tend to use them the most are young families and not the wheelchair bound.


A ridiculous situation did however develop earlier this year, when an entire fleet of class 458 London commuter trains (28 trains in total) were scrapped despite the entire stock being less than 6 years old. The reason? A 3mm difference in the on-board LED screens (top: 35mm, bottom:32mm):

http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,293339,00.jpg

The trains themselves:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/electric/emu-dc/458/1gal-colour-458-jp.jpg


The irony is, that because the trains are out of action, nobody, not even disabled users can use them!

[Xelebes]

Wheelchairs make buses more expensive to build, take away seating capacity, and cause schedule problems.

I advocate a separate wheelchair system. If only ADA would go away.

I realize this is extremely non-pc in a country where the very existence of a wheelchair person prompts standing ovations and whispers of "he's so courageous!"

On the other hand, I like Edmonton's New Flyer low-floor buses. They're so much warmer and comfy than the old tanks bought in the 60's.

[SFUVancouver]

Translink, Vancouver's transit system, is fully accessible. All of our rapid transit stations are now wheel chair accessible, as are SeaBus and Westcoast Express commuter rail. Most of the busses are too and those that aren't are twenty year old electric trolley buses and Translink has ordered a full replacement fleet of wheelchair accessible electric trolley buses to the tune of a quarter billion dollars. Ours is a relatively new transit system and clearly does not have the same infrastructure problems of much older and larger systems like London, Paris and New York. Still, it has been a costly process that has seen fleet replacement come at the cost of fleet expansion. By the end of 2008 all of the old trolley buses will be gone.

[Minato Ku]

If you are an older people or you are in wheelchair don't take the subway in Paris

90% of bus are low floor but the big problem with the bus is the traffic (too heavy and chaotic). Bus are often crowed (so many old peoples in Paris :haha:).