Five Miles of Grit: A long walk down Barton St. in Hamilton [Archive]

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flar

Nov 9, 2006, 4:01 AM

HAMILTON NEIGHBOURHOODS:
Corktown (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=138983) • Durand (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=118098) • Central (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=162606) • Dundas (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=131127) • Locke St. South (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135162) • Burlington (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=152571) • Stinson (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=147294) • Westdale (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135327) • St. Clair (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141099) • Keith (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=166096) • Landsdale (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164061)
The Delta (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=145794) • Gibson (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=167637) • Jamesville (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141853) • Concession Street (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140408) • Durand North (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=162149) • Durand South (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=162269) • Old Dundas Houses (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=165317) • Hess Village (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=138574) • Barton Street (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=119700)
Ancaster (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140652) • North Kirkendall (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164309) • South Kirkendall (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164446) • McMaster University (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=158825) • Downtown (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=144966) • The Bayfront (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=154207) • The North End (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=153731) • Kenilworth (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=168229)
Mountain Brow (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=146487) • Textile District (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135905) • Strathcona (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=156346) • North Stipley (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=166988) • Flamborough (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=159134) • Beasley (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=159968) • Chedoke (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=160292) • Stoney Creek (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=160681) • The Beach Strip (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=156809)

HAMILTON FEATURES:
C I T Y _ L I G H T S (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163245) • Stone Hamilton (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=150491) • Twilight of the Industrial Age (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=128954) • Twilight of the Industrial Age II (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139601)
Stone in Dundas and Ancaster (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=159574) • Goodbye, Hamilton (from 43 floors up) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=166449) • Dirty Brick (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=158495) • Day for Night (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=155748)
This broken down old city still manages to wake up every morning... (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=165732) • Everywhere, Ontario (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=125154) • < R - E - T - R - O > (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=155108)
HAMILTON | Scenes from the cutting room floor (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=161359) • S U B U R B I A ! (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=149233) • Everywhere, Ontario (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=125154) • Hamilton Rowhouses (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163831)
< H E A V Y <> I N D U S T R Y > (forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=150080) • Old Man Winter vs. Hamilton (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=124596)

The Infamous Barton Street

This is an in-depth tour of Hamilton's Barton St. from Bay St. to Parkdale Ave. This might well be the grittiest stretch of road in Canada.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/map.jpg

It starts off innocently...

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00001.jpg

Note that many of the trees in these pics still have leaves in November (some are still green). This is due to Hamilton's milder microclimate. Everywhere else in Ontario the trees are pretty much bare.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00004.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00006.jpg

We arrive at James Street

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00011.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00013.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00015.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00016.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00018.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00019.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00020.jpg

This is a prison

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00021.jpg

really, it is

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00021a.jpg

This is across the street

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00023.jpg

I'm not exactly sure what this woman was doing, but she had no pants...

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00025.jpg

Construction...
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00026.jpg

...former industrial lands...

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00029.jpg

...an old school

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00034.jpg

While I was taking this picture, right beside me, two men handed a prostitute some crack. I would have photographed it for you, but the men objected.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00037.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00039.jpg

Hamilton General Hospital

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00040.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00041.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00042.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00043.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00046.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00044.jpg

Now to Barton Village, I took a couple pics around here back in my "Inner City Hamilton (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=113605)" thread.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00056.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00048.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00047.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00050.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00053.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00054.jpg

A practitioner of the oldest profession...

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00061.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00060.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00062.jpg

I would like to have taken more people pictures, but the people around here mostly objected before I even tried. A few asked me what I was doing taking pictures. They're justifiably suspicious about this kind of attention.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00059.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00058.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00064.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00065.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00066.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00067.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00070.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00071.jpg

Now we're around Wentworth Street

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00076.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00075.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00074.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00084.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00077.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00081.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00082.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00083.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00086.jpg

The cops were chasing someone down the alley

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00088.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00089.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00090.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00091.jpg

A quick look down a residential side street
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00092.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00095.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00096.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00097.jpg

Another sidestreet
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00098.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00099.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00100.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00102.jpg

Sherman Ave.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00108.jpg

Now we're entering a Polish area, just east of Sherman Ave.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00104.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/000104a.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/000104b.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/000104c.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/000104d.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00105.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00107.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00109.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00110.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00111.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00112.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00113.jpg

Still going...
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00114.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00117.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00119.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00120.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00121.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00122.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00123.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00124.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00126.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00128.jpg

The buildings aren't quite as old now as we approach Ottawa Street

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100001.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100002.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100005.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100006.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100009.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100011.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100013.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100015.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100018.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100019.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100020.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100033.jpg

We finally reach Ottawa Street

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100021.jpg

The Centre Mall occupies the north side of the street, I didn't take many pictures of this, I trust you've all seen a mall before

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100022.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100025.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100026.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100029.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100030.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100031.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100032.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100034.jpg

At Kenilworth Ave.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100036.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100039.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100003.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100043.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100008.jpg

http://aas.ath.cx/barton.jpg
I'm really tired of walking now so I'll end it...thanks if you've made it this far.

shappy

Nov 9, 2006, 4:14 AM

wow, that is nastay!

great photo here:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00119.jpg

rgalston

Nov 9, 2006, 4:14 AM

Very nice. Reminds me of Winnipeg's Selkirk Avenue.

LoKKiTo

Nov 9, 2006, 4:24 AM

Ghetto, can pass for inner-city USA. Crime also seems to be a problem in that area.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00086.jpg
Projects?

niwell

Nov 9, 2006, 4:29 AM

Nice pictures, that does look like a rather sketchy stretch of street. As gritty as it is though, there is definetly a lot of potential there.

kool maudit

Nov 9, 2006, 4:43 AM

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00023.jpg

http://www.asabovesobelow.ca/forum/wtf.jpg

wtf?

flar

Nov 9, 2006, 5:34 AM

^^Obviously its a ghost! here's a higher res closeup
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/window.jpg

@LoKKiTo, I'm not sure but I don't think those are projects. In Ontario "projects" usually take the form of geared to income townhouse complexes rather than highrise apartments.

CCF

Nov 9, 2006, 5:58 AM

Wow, very interesting.

You just don't see this sorta thing in Regina. We have vacant buildings, but nothing to that extent.

I would like to get out to Hamilton.

softee

Nov 9, 2006, 6:06 AM

It's almost as gritty as Sudbury!

boden

Nov 9, 2006, 2:18 PM

Probably how most people picture Hamilton anyway!:D Good post!

matt602

Nov 9, 2006, 5:04 PM

I thought I saw you yesterday. I passed you on the bus going West at Victoria. You were probably taking a picture of that Caribbean food place. I figured it was you since nobody else in this city would bother to take pictures along Barton ;)

Nice pics by the way, the stuff I see every day. It really doesn't seem so bad in person, but in pictures it looks right up there with Buffalo's nastyness.

flar

Nov 9, 2006, 5:16 PM

^^It probably was me...there weren't a lot of people out in the damp cloudy weather. I guess this just shows one reason why the design of these old neighbourhoods is good: you always run into people. I even saw my wife and a couple of her co-workers walking down the street on their lunch break.

SteelTown

Nov 9, 2006, 5:57 PM

Yep and it appears you ran into my aunt as well *embarrassed*

olga

Nov 9, 2006, 6:06 PM

Very interesting, thanks for the tour!

circle33

Nov 9, 2006, 6:21 PM

Thanks for risking life and limb for us. That was quite an eye opener.

MolsonExport

Nov 9, 2006, 8:00 PM

Wicked Grit. As for the Grit Capital of Canada, it has to be Montreal. There is just soooo much grit in Montreal.

J. Will

Nov 9, 2006, 8:11 PM

Crime may or may not be a major problem in the area (I don't know), but Hamilton, like other Canadian cities, has low rates of murder and other violent crimes (I think they average 5-10 murders a year). Most of the crime is property crime and things of that nature.

matt602

Nov 9, 2006, 9:39 PM

petty crimes maybe, but not major crimes.

raisethehammer

Nov 9, 2006, 10:05 PM

I love it....great photos.
Most potential in the city lies on this street. A great streetwall still exists and the foundation is there to work from:
Ethnic eateries - I love Duartes, Staropolskie, Frank's Sicilia and many others you photographed here. The biggest problem is really the taxes. Even artists haven't shown up yet in large numbers like you would expect along such a corridor.
I know someone who once tried to buy a building here to renovate it into lofts with streetfront commercial. The empty, decayed building paid something like $5,000 a year in taxes. He was told that once his plans were complete he would be paying over $50,000 a year in taxes! And the building was only $200,000 to purchase. Needless to say that idea (along with everyone else's who's tried in this corridor) died.
Until the city decides that suburban sprawl will pay it's own way instead of robbing from neighbourhoods like this to subsidize it, we'll never see change.

Tony

Nov 9, 2006, 10:12 PM

Go Hamilton!

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00089.jpg

An old bank turn into private residence?! What would you do with the old vault... hmmm. You could keep your "product" & revenue there!

Shadow11P

Nov 10, 2006, 1:47 AM

Considering I live near Dundas Street in London, I thought it couldn't get any shittier in Canada when it comes to streets. :yuck: But it does have a lot of potential.

Otherwise, I think Hamilton's a great city.

the dude

Nov 10, 2006, 2:02 AM

barton's always depressed the shit outta me. ironically, i live about 50m from it...the western portion of it at least. i have to say that i don't share other people's optimism. i just can't get past how it looks.

vertex

Nov 10, 2006, 2:41 AM

flar, nice documentation.

The building on the right in this picture looks really old, maybe 18th century. What do you know about it?

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00026.jpg

SteelTown

Nov 10, 2006, 3:02 AM

That old building is the Smart-Turner building, it's an architectural gem. It's one of the first industrial building in Hamilton, Victorian industrial vernacular stone architecture.

It's currently under redevelopment, it's going to converted to an adult version of a Ronald McDonald House, an affordable place for families of critical care and cancer patients to stay. Hamilton General Hospital is next to the Smart-Turner building. You can see the Hospital behind the Smart-Turner building.

rousseau

Nov 10, 2006, 3:31 AM

Friday nights at Gallery 435 a bunch of aging folkies/hippies get together for beers and singing with guitars and such. The owner doesn't make a living off of the paintings on the wall, though. He does it by selling marijuana, which he grows at his farm. Actually, people smoke pot openly both on the first floor and in the basement. I used to go there now and then to jam about five years ago, and was always surprised that the cops never hassled them. I wonder if the Friday night thing is still going on?

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00070.jpg

rousseau

Nov 10, 2006, 3:41 AM

More comments:

1. Another gritty stretch is Cannon, all the way from Kenilworth to Bay Street (it's parallel to Barton, and complements Barton in a more residential way). I've driven along there a number of times and marveled both at how intact it is as a lower-income neighbourhood, and how utterly depressing the people are who live there.

2. I used to live in Winnipeg, and Selkirk isn't in the same league as Barton when it comes to grit. Granted, Selkirk (and Winnipeg in general) is probably a lot more threatening/dangerous than Barton is, but it doesn't have that East/Midwest/rust belt vibe going on.

3. Dundas Street in London mentioned in a thread about Barton Street in Hamilton? Does not compute.

raisethehammer

Nov 10, 2006, 4:46 AM

yea, those Friday night's at 435 still go on. If you want another treat a few blocks west, pop into 'The Studio Gallery'. Bill Powell is one of the artists and is a great chat. Politics especially. Barton is a beauty.....someday it'll be humming with an off the wall type of vibrancy of a Kensington Market/East Vancouver type of vibe.

rousseau

Nov 10, 2006, 5:20 AM

You're more optimistic than I. My sense is that Barton is about as Kensington as it's ever going to get. If it were ever going to turn into a true hotbed of indie funkiness it would have started happening twenty years ago.

Hamilton's saving grace is that it is close to Toronto. End of story. Fifty years from now when the last steel mill is gone and the last brownspace is cleaned up, Hamilton's waterfront will be a sight to behold a la Queen's Quay (and populated by refugees from Toronto) and most of Barton will be torn down and rebuilt into generic townhouses or condos. And mostly forgotten. Barton isn't intact enough to make it that attractive to gentrifiers, and fifty years from now it will be too far from the waterfront for anyone to bother much with.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

Kilgore Trout

Nov 10, 2006, 8:59 AM

this thread is classic. you've really documented a certain time and place... there are a lot of really interesting details in these photos.

Wicked Grit. As for the Grit Capital of Canada, it has to be Montreal. There is just soooo much grit in Montreal.

really? i've never seen anything like this in montreal, even in point st. charles and the outskirts of hochelaga-maisonneuve. maybe in the 1990s...

Boomtown_Hamilton

Nov 10, 2006, 12:40 PM

Great job as always with the pix flar.....some of these photos are really funny....best part of all is these are the streets I grew up in.......

The very first picture is on Barton and Greig street....I grew up on 41 Greig (first 26-years of my life) that picture brings back alot of great memories.....

The next noteworthy picture for me is the Barton street Jail which is the site of the very last man killed by execution in Canada by the Death Penalty....It was a hanging.........

Some of these areas look really nasty but for the people outside of Hamilton looking at these pictures these streets look bad BUT they are not as bad as they look....you can actually walk these streets here at night....it use to be worse actually especially along Barton and Sherman with the street gangs they use to have there by the same name (Barton & Sherman gang)......

Next noteworthy picture is the J.Rumor supermarket....the owners there are Portuguese and recent 6-49 Lotto winners....Gotta wonder now if it was THEIR ticket or someone else's?....hmmm.....they also own the Duarte Supermarket........

Next noteworthy picture is "Ways to Wisdom" Occult Boutique....best spot in town for Psychic readings....local Police sometimes refer to them for help....and not too far off from this spot use to be a Sports Card and Memorabilia shop owned by Leo Savelli who use to have an original game worn NHL Hamilton Tigers jersey hanging from the store front window......

Next noteworthy spot is the TROCADERO restaurant which use to be a MOB hangout here in town...place has alot of history....is also the very first site in Ontario to have Brick Oven for Pizza making........the very next picture after that one you can see in the background a building that use to be the Canadian headquarters for WESTINGHOUSE Company before they closed up shop and left Hamilton for good....being transformed into Lofts last time I checked it out........

Next notewrothy spot for me is a Pub named ZAK's....it use to be known as the WAVERLY TAVERN and I use to be a Karaoke host and Disk Jockey at this spot in town...now is site that has Offtrack Horse betting....the owners of this Bar also own another Bar in town called; "The Dizzy Wheel."

Center Mall area is site where the old Barton street Arena use to be....original home of Hamilton's NHL team of the 1920s; The Tigers.....they moved out of town in 1926 to New York where they were renamed the NY Americans and were the very first hockey team to play out of the newly built Madison Square Garden........

Thanks for the tour flar.....Greatly appreciated!!!

Tony

Nov 10, 2006, 1:10 PM

M
3. Dundas Street in London mentioned in a thread about Barton Street in Hamilton? Does not compute.

The only place in London like Barton is Centretown, which is Dundas east of Adelaide; however, it's only a fraction of the size of Barton.

raisethehammer

Nov 10, 2006, 2:59 PM

yea, Hamilton's history comes alive on this street....funny thing is, I know folks who live in the various neighbourhoods along the corridor and they love it. More and more younger people are buying up and fixing old homes. If Hamilton ever got serious about sprawl and implemented an urban boundary we'd see a lot more attention and money paid to Barton (although I'm not sure I want Hamilton's stucco-happy, parking lot addicted, visionless, anti-creative developers and builders getting anywhere near this street).
I'd rather have it stay like this forever instead of turn into another Upper James.

SteelTown

Nov 10, 2006, 3:26 PM

I believe it has or is getting ready to expand the residential loan program to the Barton Business Improvement Area and including other BIAs in Hamilton. The residential loan program has been a successful in the downtown core, converting abandon building into lofts/condos. The city will give you an interest free loan for 10 years.

Now if they could expand the Enterprise Zone to the Barton BIA that would really help developers. Enterprise Zone is a program where the property tax is frozen from the day you purchase the property for I think 10 years. After 10 years that the property is reevaluated after the redevelopment but by that time you should have had made your profit and can afford the true assessment.

bc2mb

Nov 10, 2006, 9:22 PM

dirty and depressing. love it! thanks for sharing. :)

Tony

Nov 10, 2006, 9:30 PM

If Hamilton ever got serious about sprawl and implemented an urban boundary we'd see a lot more attention and money paid to Barton.

I'm not sure why some of you Hamiltonians are always complaining about uncontrolled sprawl in Hamilton because it is controlled. Hamilton does have an Urban Boundary, it always has, the most current version available and still in effect is the one in the old Hamilton-Wentworth Regional Official Plan. It's just that there's a lot of room designated for growth:

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/E9011F41-F647-42A6-A23C-147ADB4B5909/0/RegionMap1.pdf

The City is still working on a new City of Hamilton Official Plan.

I think Greenbelt and Smart Growth Legislation would apply to basically stop expansion of this urban area for the foreseeable future because of the capacity that can still be crammed into the designated Urban Area and the requirements to intensify along identified transit & mixed use corridors.

I highly recommend that you guys pay a little more attention to what's stated in the OP's for the city that you live in.

Shadow11P

Nov 11, 2006, 3:52 AM

3. Dundas Street in London mentioned in a thread about Barton Street in Hamilton? Does not compute.

I was refering more towards the section from Adelaide eastward till you reach Highbury, which bares some resemblance. I probably should have been more specific.

SpruceMoose

Nov 11, 2006, 10:05 AM

Great set, one of the best I've seen - I like seeing the darker side of blue collar cities.

Hozay

Nov 12, 2006, 8:24 AM

Great tour!

flar

Nov 13, 2006, 6:07 PM

Thanks for your responses

I hope this set of photos communicates the extent of grittiness on Barton. It's not so much that it's the most horrible area, it's the shear size, it really is a long stretch. The amazing thing is that the street is so intact: the entire street is lined with an nearly unbroken (but dilapidated) streetwall. Hardly anything has been torn down. Since it's lasted this long, I'm guessing the street will remain much like it is now.

I believe it will remain like it is because there is a stigma associated with Barton Street, but even moreso, there is a stigma associated with the people who live around Barton. No amount of redevelopment, tax breaks or urban planning can remove the stigma because it lies in deeply rooted social problems. The cycle of poverty and all the drugs, crime, desperation, hopelessness, etc. that go along with it are deeply entrenched in that area of the city. These people have to live somewhere.

Those who live in the Barton Street area are proud of it because it's their home or where they grew up. It definately has character, and those who live there like to talk about how tough it is and exaggerate how dangerous it is. There is some danger, and as you can see in the pictures, the criminal element is always visable. On my walk I saw prostitutes, police chasing people, and homelessness, while others offered to sell me pot or crystal meth. Despite that, I didn't risk life or limb to get these photos, but I easily could have had my camera stolen. Although I'm cultured and educated now, I come from a working class background and look kinda scruffy, so I was able to mingle among the people I met on the street without much trouble. I think there would be more risk for a really clean cut, obviously privileged person walking around taking pictures there.

Also, the Centre Mall, which is located toward the end of the tour, is slated for major redevelopment which will include residential. Obviously having a Mall on the street does nothing for the vast string of empty storefronts along Barton, but it will be interesting to see what effect the new residential will have in the area.

**EDIT** I don't mean to give the impression that Barton is unsafe, just that it's a rough neighbourhood, and the residents play that up, and you will find trouble if you look for it.

slide_rule

Nov 14, 2006, 12:26 AM

the strange thing is, i did not find that area to be unsafe. maybe it was because i was lucky. maybe it was because i was naive.

hamilton does have its charm. it's hard to find the same post-industrial grit in other areas of canada.

Boomtown_Hamilton

Nov 14, 2006, 5:54 AM

I live here in Hamilton and work down the road in Toronto....Barton might look "unsafe" but like I've said already you can actually walk these streets here at night whereas if you go to the backend of Toronto around Jane-Finch area it doesn't look as bad as Barton does in these pictures but I wouldn't walk down Jane-Finch areas at night like I do alot with Barton street here in Hamilton...Hamilton is tough town don't get me wrong but not as tough as some Hamiltonians would like to believe it is.

Hozay

Feb 9, 2007, 2:32 PM

I recently explored Barton, it's grittier than hell!!!

raisethehammer

Feb 9, 2007, 4:38 PM

Wheelingman04

Feb 11, 2007, 3:51 AM

Very interesting photos. It is nice to see both the good and bad of Hamilton. I also see lots of good potential for the future.

brett.electrician

Feb 11, 2007, 9:40 PM

Tony, Hamilton's OP is a joke.
Take it from those of us who do LIVE HERE.
The OP is planned, examined and catered to the suburban developers. That's why there is 'so much room for expansion'.
It's controlled growth alright - controlled by the builders.
They keep expanding the urban boundary 20 years ahead of schedule in order to make money on their land speculation. It all sounds nice, and looks good on paper until you dive into the nitty-gritty. It's the same as having no OP or UB. The UB expands wherever the homebuilders own more farmland.
It's killing our city.

^^ you got it right on. I wouldn't just say Hamilton though, much of southern ont development is controlled by builders. Thats why it has sprawled out in such a grotesque fashion, thousands of acres of car dependent single family homes.

On a different note the photo thread was great! I try to tell people in Victoria what Barton street is like but its difficult for them to understand. This thread should help with that. Every time I see the Barton street village signs I get a little pissed though. The money used to build that was $ given to the city by the province to expand a section highway 5 from Waterdown west to clappisons corner. That area was a terrible bottleneck of traffic. Instead the city spent the money on signs and street scaping which hasn't done shit. Other then slow down traffic on barton. Waterdown had to wait another 2-3 years before it got the highway expanded....

syktron

Feb 12, 2007, 12:33 AM

GRITstastic... I have never seen something like that in Montreal. I don't know if the eastside downtown in Vancouver, is comparable in terms of grittiness???

flar

Feb 12, 2007, 8:45 PM

Seeing these photos again reminds me of how much this area contributes to the gritty perception most have of Hamilton. In the inevitable comparisons to Toronto that every Hamiltonian makes, Barton St epitomizes everything that Toronto isn't. Some Hamiltonians are ashamed of this area while others revel in its grittiness and take pride in Hamilton's lunchbucket past. The former type of person wishes Hamilton were like Toronto while the latter is glad it isn't.

Gerrard

Feb 12, 2007, 9:28 PM

Great photos.

If the hookers did meth instead of crack they'd get way more value for the money.

Evergrey

Feb 13, 2007, 4:24 PM

flar

Feb 14, 2007, 10:37 PM

Amazing thread... possibly the best I've ever seen on here... Hamilton has got to be the coolest city in North America... gritty as hell... yes... but also very lively with a diverse business district

Thanks Everygrey, that's quite a compliment:cheers: Hamilton is pretty diverse and it's been a real pleasure for me to explore it over the last couple years, and to show the pics on here

mrherodotus

Oct 7, 2007, 8:52 PM

Bump!

pausgree

Oct 8, 2007, 10:29 PM

I heard Hamilton was gritty, but yuck! It.s like Pittsburgh

malmsteen

Jun 26, 2008, 2:41 PM

jodelli

Jun 26, 2008, 5:26 PM

Nice shots, as usual.

Remember being at a restaurant/bar on Barton somewhere near Ottawa Street, but can't remember the name. There were a bunch of us, and the object apparently was to sandwich in a Ti-Cats game between visits.

KitchenerBitcher

Jun 26, 2008, 8:24 PM

My aunt used to live on Barnesdale Ave down near Barton while she was going to Mohawk. I remember going to visit her for a weekend when I was like 10 years old and being terrified to leave her building!

flar

Jun 27, 2008, 2:42 AM

Great photos. Captures the reality pretty well I think.

I've been looking at Hamilton RE from Toronto. I, like another forum member, have also been discouraged by the outrageous property taxes the city wants for buildings that currently stand vacant and non producing.

What is up with that?

I cannot afford Toronto nor do I like it much. I'd be interested in what Hamilton's people think about a good area for my search. I'm not into junkies and I'm not into the Stoney Creek/Mountain thing either.

Barton isnt that differnt from streets like Dufferin in Toronto, or the downtown Jarvis area. Even though Torontonians like to think themselves better - the city is in a pretty steep slide. I came here from BC and was shocked at how delapitated most of Toronto's core is.

Are you looking for a place to live or a storefront (or both)?

Out of Hamilton's old commercial streets, Locke South and Westdale Village are established, successful and have low vacancy. Ottawa St, James North, King West and International Village are doing well but probably still pretty cheap. Concession St. is on the mountain, but it's not too bad. King East and Main East near The Delta have a lot of potential if LRT is built. Kenilworth Ave is pretty much just like Barton. And there's always downtown.

As for Barton St. itself, there is a lot of new stuff being built near Barton Village these days, research institutes and hospital expansions and possibly another Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart wouldn't be good for the street but this other stuff will bring a lot more people to Barton. At the other end of Barton, the Centre Mall is being replaced by a new Power Centre.

ColDayMan

Jun 27, 2008, 3:20 AM

Neato!

malmsteen

Jun 30, 2008, 11:00 PM

Are you looking for a place to live or a storefront (or both)?
...is being replaced by a new Power Centre.

Thanks for the reply. I started looking at commercial with living space above. If I find it great but at the same time am looking at a house. Whichever I find first.

As usual the real estate listings show a great divide with flippers and regular sellers. The flippers having put in some cheap tile and adding 40k to the price.

I'm not to gritty nor a soccer mom. It looks like the West side is much ... cleaner?

I'm hoping for the same thing everyone wants - a unique property for a good deal. Thus the mountain is out. Old wood, brick - some charm - thats in.

Anywhere close to Barton is gonna be bad? I notice the Keniworth (is that right) stuff and Wentworth just off Barton is for sale city.

flar

Jun 30, 2008, 11:32 PM

Thanks for the reply. I started looking at commercial with living space above. If I find it great but at the same time am looking at a house. Whichever I find first.

As usual the real estate listings show a great divide with flippers and regular sellers. The flippers having put in some cheap tile and adding 40k to the price.

I'm not to gritty nor a soccer mom. It looks like the West side is much ... cleaner?

I'm hoping for the same thing everyone wants - a unique property for a good deal. Thus the mountain is out. Old wood, brick - some charm - thats in.

Anywhere close to Barton is gonna be bad? I notice the Keniworth (is that right) stuff and Wentworth just off Barton is for sale city.

Kenilworth and anything close to Barton is gritty and not really desirable but super cheap. West of downtown is nice and also south of Main is nice. If you ask me, the best deals on houses are near The Delta/Gage Park area. Beautiful old homes, not gritty and much cheaper than similar areas to the west (Locke Street/Kirkendall neighbourhood is getting pricey). Search for my other photo tours and you'll see what some of these neighbourhoods look like.

Also check out the North End near Bayfront Park.

Kingofthehill

Jun 30, 2008, 11:32 PM

Off the beaten track for sure.

Great job flar.

malmsteen

Jun 30, 2008, 11:43 PM

Kenilworth and anything close to Barton is gritty and not really desirable but super cheap. West of downtown is nice and also south of Main is nice. If you ask me, the best deals on houses are near The Delta/Gage Park area. Beautiful old homes, not gritty and much cheaper than similar areas to the west (Locke Street/Kirkendall neighbourhood is getting pricey). Search for my other photo tours and you'll see what some of these neighbourhoods look like.

Also check out the North End near Bayfront Park.

Thanks very much. That helps a good deal. I notice a bunch of stuff in a row on Emerald Street (just over from Victoria Ave North. Looks like a big packing plant or something must be accross the street. 3 houses in a row listed and cheap.

Cambridgite

Jun 30, 2008, 11:54 PM

I was in Hamilton a few weeks ago to pick up a friend at the GO centre and head off to a camping trip. We spent a little bit of time in Hamilton. Enough to grab dinner and take a tour of Barton. It's a rough street for sure, but I didn't feel like I was going to get my hubcaps stolen or anything. Detroit and Tampa can be much scarier.

I think Barton has potential, but it's a very long-term kind of potential. I think it will be the last straw as just about every other neighborhood in the lower city gentrifies and becomes too expensive for urban pioneers. The south and west parts of the inner city are already pretty upmarket. Next, I would look out for east Hamilton, especially as the LRT is put in place.

malmsteen

Jul 4, 2008, 3:41 AM

wow, that is nastay!

great photo here:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00119.jpg

I second that. This could be the album cover for a Springsteen/Melloncamp duet.

HHC

Apr 2, 2011, 9:15 PM

Love the grit. Looks like it has incredible potential though!

J. Will

Apr 2, 2011, 10:05 PM

This is about as gritty as it gets in Canada, but even here you won't find steel bars on the windows of any of the homes (though some of the businesses to have bars obviously). Nor will you find those hideous sliding steel doors ("garage doors") covering up the facades of any of the businesses when they're closed.

LVND_W2NX

Apr 2, 2011, 10:09 PM

Cool photo! Glad to know it's there; love seeing photos like this but that just makes me fascinated about really putting a history together.

I second that. This could be the album cover for a Springsteen/Melloncamp duet.

...eh, I don't know about that. Not that it isn't a cool photo, but for Springsteen & Melloncamp? I think you need to put a designer on that working nonstop for awhile on artwork that's all about the album.

djlx2v2

Apr 2, 2011, 10:26 PM

Ex-Ithacan

Apr 3, 2011, 2:12 AM

Holy pistoly, how the heck did I miss this rascal before? Heckofa thread flar. I love the grit and the fact that the street is one long straight shot. I'll try to make the whole length when I get my Scoot-Around chair. :yes::D;)

Thanks.

MPK

Apr 3, 2011, 10:20 PM

JivecitySTL

Apr 3, 2011, 10:39 PM

Can we have a resounding "HOLY SHIT!!!"

Expat

Apr 3, 2011, 11:41 PM

I got nervous just looking at the pictures. Wow.

diskojoe

Apr 4, 2011, 1:06 PM

the commentary was awesome on this thread. the polish part of the neighborhood looks pretty decent.

flar

Apr 5, 2011, 5:25 PM

This has been a great thread, Flar!

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to areas in the lower city, such as Barton, over the next decade.

In general, Hamiltonians have very little appreciation for our "urban core" and what it offers. Many tend to treat Hamilton as a suburb itself, and they are quite content with travelling an hour east to Toronto for all things entertainment, culture, shopping, etc..

Unlike many other mid- to large-sized cities in North America, there has not been a recent demand in Hamilton for urban living spaces amongst young professionals, or anyone else, for that matter. The goal for nearly all educated and mildly successful individuals is to buy a suburban home in surrounding communities such as Ancaster, Burlington, Waterdown, Binbrook, and the South Mountain area (in fact, an acquaintance of mine who works in the city's urban planning department just bought a nice new McMansion in Binbrook). Most Hamiltonians with any kind of income want nothing to do with urban Hamilton. Therefore, I fear that the city's current population is either unable (poverty) or unwilling (suburban desires) to create sustainable urban revitalization.

Ironically, while I think Hamilton's proximity to Toronto hurts the city more than it helps, I believe that it will be Torontonians who save Hamilton from itself. Torontonians who appreciate an urban lifestyle are being priced out of Toronto; Hamilton offers an affordable alternative. Nearly identical Victorians that sell for $800,000+ in Toronto can be had for $300,000 in "trendy" areas of Hamilton. Artists priced out of Toronto are finding cheap studios and galleries.

So, as much as it pains me to admit it, I believe that Torontonians may help to save the city. However, it begs the question: What's better for Hamilton? A revitalized, gentrified, bedroom community full of Torontonians, or the status quo? I still haven't made up my mind.

(BTW, I love Toronto and its people(!), and it's not like I don't want them migrating to Hamilton. It's just sad when it seems like this city and its people cannot be the solution to its own problems)

Unfortunately, gentrification by Torontonians won't fix the fundamental problems, it just displaces the poor. That's the big problem in Hamilton, so many thousands of Hamiltonians have suffered from the effects of industrial decline that it's created a deeply entrenched cycle of poverty that will be hard to break. I don't know what the answer to that is (it's not just a simple matter of more jobs or more education and training).

The other problem with Hamilton is that things have gotten so bad (by Canadian standards) that the middle to upper middle class has almost completely abandoned the city. All that are left in the lower city are some urban pioneers and Toronto transplants. Everyone else is content to concentrate poverty and social problems in the lower city.

Hamilton is the only sizable Canadian city that is being eaten by its own suburbs, in the American style. The way things work now is that everything good goes to the burbs and everything bad goes to the lower city. Although Ancaster, Stoney Creek and the rest of Wentworth County were amalgamated with Hamilton (against their will despite over-representation of suburbs on city council), the biggest suburb, Burlington, remains a separate municipality. Burlington is a shiny new place that had greenfeilds with highway access, low taxes and a friendly development environment. Everything is in Burlington now-- offices, shopping, industry, new businesses of all sorts, and most of the upper middle class. Huge numbers of Hamiltonians now reverse commute to Burlington for work. The shiny new city right beside Hamilton has all the jobs and tax base that Hamilton needs just to maintain itself.

peanut gallery

Apr 5, 2011, 7:11 PM

I remember looking at this thread years ago and can't believe I never left a comment (I think I planned to come back to it and just never did). It's as amazing a tour today as it was then. Really great stuff, flar! You can see all kinds of great potential here. Much of the building stock is fantastic.

MolsonExport

Apr 5, 2011, 8:38 PM

Had to revisit this outstanding photo thread of the grit and shit.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/100009.jpg

To which I would have to add: "Tats and Holes"

MPK

Apr 5, 2011, 11:55 PM

Unfortunately, gentrification by Torontonians won't fix the fundamental problems, it just displaces the poor.

Yes, unfortunately, displacement of the poor is the necessary evil of gentrification. However, as you mentioned, poverty is so incredibly prevalent and widespread in the lower city that I believe an influx of middle-class residents (Torontonians, in this case, as we agree that middle-class Hamiltonians are unwilling to locate in the lower city) would only create a more favourable socio-economic balance that benefits everyone. The population living in poverty is so large, and the number of affordable housing complexes, rental units, halfway houses, shelters, and social service agencies in the lower city is so great, that there is little need to worry about significant displacement any time soon.

As for the cycle of poverty in this city, I, like you, have no answers. I see it every day, and it is devastating for so many reasons.

flar

Apr 6, 2011, 4:57 PM

However, as you mentioned, poverty is so incredibly prevalent and widespread in the lower city that I believe an influx of middle-class residents...The population living in poverty is so large, and the number of affordable housing complexes, rental units, halfway houses, shelters, and social service agencies in the lower city is so great, that there is little need to worry about significant displacement any time soon.
.

True, diluting the concentration of poverty would be a good thing. It's well known within the social services that concentrating services and low income housing in an area can make it difficult for people to get away from their problems, leads to poor schools, creates a negative social environment for children, etc. The flip side is that it's easier to serve people when the services are located near the people they serve, plus the lower city is walkable and has good transit. Push the poor to townhouses and apartments out in the car-dependent suburbs (like here in Ottawa) and you start to have huge transportation and accessibility issues when it comes to social services, shopping, hospitals and even getting to a job.

But I generally agree that mixed income neighbourhoods would be a welcome improvement in Hamilton. If it takes Torontonians to do it, I'm fine with that. Hamilton is a great city, but sometimes Hamiltonians are their own worst enemy.

YIOTTA

Apr 6, 2011, 8:15 PM

So much grit - so little time. Nice set.

TheMaxMan

Apr 9, 2011, 3:29 AM

Great series. Thanks for posting it. I've done a couple of trips to Hamilton where I've explored the harbour area and the steel belt stuff, but your photo essay speaks of the people who created that lingering legacy. I love that photo that shappy and malmsteeen pointed out - it's the best composition of the series and speaks volumes about a particular time and place. Well done, man.

MolsonExport

Sep 17, 2012, 3:41 PM

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00056.jpg

Barton village bandaid with a stylized B. As if the silly banners do anything worthwhile. Slap on some signage and call it revitalization. Downtown Flint does the same thing.

Too many cities do this sort of thing (also, silhouettes of people, depicting former years of vitality, in empty storefronts).

Doady

Sep 17, 2012, 6:26 PM

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00056.jpg

Barton village bandaid with a stylized B. As if the silly banners do anything worthwhile. Slap on some signage and call it revitalization. Downtown Flint does the same thing.

Ummm.... a lot of distinct villages and historic neighbourhoods have those sort of banners, including those in Hamilton, such as Dundas. Outside Hamilton in the GTA, those same sort of banners can be found in Streetsville, Port Credit, Downtown Oakville, etc. In Toronto, distinct neighbourhoods/villages have their own unique street signage. Markham is the same way. It has nothing to do with revitalization.

MolsonExport

Sep 17, 2012, 6:52 PM

Ummm, yes it does in the above context, which is pretty obvious. Obviously many distinct places have banners of this sort (I know a thing or two about marketing, but thanks anyway).

flar

Sep 17, 2012, 7:16 PM

Strangely enough, there is a strip of Polish businesses a little further east on Barton and there is no signage or acknowledgement from the city at all. Many other cities would play it up as Little Warsaw or something. Instead, Hamilton has Barton Village, which offers very little to anyone who might venture there (unless you're looking for crack or a prostitute).

It might be a bit better now, they recently built a big medical research centre near Barton Village.

matt602

Sep 22, 2012, 6:27 AM

Looking at all these photos again I'm realizing that Barton actually looks a fair bit better now. A lot of buildings through "Barton Village" got renovations done. New windows, paint and re-marketed to a slightly higher standard. The area around the hospital is also incredibly different. The old Smart Turner building is now completely restored as the Mark Preece House, all of the brownfields were turned into parking for the hospital and a new A&W. Centre Mall was also almost completely demolished and re-built into big boxes.

Barton isn't quite James North yet but there's a lot of big differences when you compare to what it looked like in these photos. All of the improvements around the hospital are definitely having an effect on the area, very slowly. The West Avenue restored school house is a good example. Barton's slowly coming back...

mstem58

Sep 22, 2012, 2:53 PM

I was in hamilton many years ago as it was only some 50 odd miles from buffalo ny, my hometown. It reminded me of the gritty blue collar nature of Buffalo, what was different i think, and this perhaps is a canadien characteristic, it's tallest building was a residential highrise, my impression of canadien cities in general is that highrise living is more popular...even their smaller cities have residential highrises.
I loved the view from atop the hill of downtown hamilton...on my way to limeridge mall, a more suburban neighborhood.

kcexpress69

Sep 24, 2012, 2:39 AM

Nice thread, Flar.. :cool: Hamilton is quite different than other Canadian cities!!

bigguy1231

Apr 16, 2016, 6:16 AM

Just returned to this thread by chance to have a look. Since this year is the 10th anniversary of the thread it would be nice to see some newer photos of the area. Sort of a before and after.

I know Flar doesn't live in the area anymore, but maybe someone else could take it upon themself to give us some updated photos. I am sure some would like to see if anything has changed or if it has gotten worse.

jdcamb

Apr 16, 2016, 10:28 PM

Went to West City and now its called Nellies. I had the spicy noodles and dad had the Fish and Chips. On the way home we drove pretty much all the way down Barton. It is still the same. Traffic was pretty bad for a Wednesday.

The North One

Apr 16, 2016, 11:33 PM

Huh? this is Canada's worst grit? It doesn't even look that bad, looks like a cool place.

Centropolis

Apr 17, 2016, 3:31 AM

a classic. i
miss the old hamilton threads on here.

Dr Awesomesauce

Apr 17, 2016, 2:16 PM

^Flar's forsaken us...

Centropolis

Apr 17, 2016, 3:10 PM

:haha:

flar hamilton threads were a cornerstone of my early SSP viewing experience.

dewE

Apr 17, 2016, 9:25 PM

I visited the Hamilton Hospital (Barton) several times to have nerve blocks on my neck roughly a decade ago (whiplash injury). I walked from the Go-Train to the hospital and back each time. Just in that short distance you get to see some areas that have seen better times, but I never felt ill at ease. Just like any other city, when you walk by a group of people that look down on their luck, you pay attention. I never travelled further east and it looks like it gets grittier that way. I may have been a bit nervous if I was carrying a DSLR and taking pictures, but the same could be said about different areas of any big city.
Loved the pictures by the way and enjoyed the commentary!

Murphy de la Sucre

Apr 18, 2016, 6:22 AM

Looking nice and neat....only it's NOT!

Thanks for sharing. Some of the gent's clubs and pros looking good for real. You have GUTS to take pictures in there (I heard with a DSLR on foot), I admire you.
Next time try the 10 worst urban neighborhoods in America one by one.

Beedok

Apr 18, 2016, 11:49 AM

You have GUTS to take pictures in there (I heard with a DSLR on foot), I admire you.

Hamilton is a fairly safe city. It's Canada.

flar

Apr 28, 2016, 8:20 PM

Murphy de la Sucre

Apr 29, 2016, 12:42 AM

If you walk the length of Barton Street you are guaranteed to encounter the drug trade and the sex trade, but you won't be in serious danger. Worst that would happen is someone tries to steal your camera or threatens you for taking a picture of their illegal activity. The second thing has happened to me several times. But nobody has ever tried to steal my camera, even in Detroit.

Back in spring 2011, downtown Kansa City, MO. Sunday afternoon, I was scammed $5 for letting other take photos of me. How stupid I was. It was Sunday DTKCMO for Christ sake, I shouldn't have shown myself out in there in first place.

DTKCMO is not a friendly area, only Crown Center surroundings are fine for weekend family activities.

flar

Apr 29, 2016, 8:17 PM

Back in spring 2011, downtown Kansa City, MO. Sunday afternoon, I was scammed $5 for letting other take photos of me. How stupid I was. It was Sunday DTKCMO for Christ sake, I shouldn't have shown myself out in there in first place.

DTKCMO is not a friendly area, only Crown Center surroundings are fine for weekend family activities.

American cities are dog eat dog, I try not to engage certain people because they will try to hustle you.

Centropolis

Apr 30, 2016, 2:17 PM

niwell

Apr 30, 2016, 4:39 PM

new orleans: "i bet i can tell you where you got your shoes!" the correct answer is "my feet," and you keep walking... lest you get your arm twisted into going down a road where you end up forking over cash...unless you are willing to tell someone to fuck off and they make you feel like you are about to be assaulted.

When my friend was living in New Orleans her friend had a gun pulled on him by one of these guys! This was on Canal st too, although a bit north of downtown. Her main advice (other than what non French Quarter neighbourhoods to go to) was to "keep walking if you see the shoe guys".

Lots of those types in South Africa too - the trick is not to get trapped in a conversation where you end up "friends" with someone and then owe them. The guy we were staying with who travels all over Africa as a news correspondent says his strategy when asked "hey can I ask you a question?" (the usual opener there) is to follow up directly with "sure you can but I'm not giving you any money". Apparently it hasn't failed and usually ends up with the other person laughing. Maybe wouldn't try that in the US though.