Phoenix CityScape Thread

[Vicelord John]

If that's true....

Speaking of berry, haven't heard from her in a while.

[HX_Guy]

So at first I was like "Woah! Signage!"...and then I was like "Really...that's it?"
Gymratmanaz is optomistic, as always :) , that will will add more...I'm a bit more skeptical and think this is it, at least for the west and south sides of Lucky Strike since this is the "back side" of it.

On a side note, aren't these fantastic pictures for being taken with a cell phone? Especially the second one. Looks pretty damn close to a point and shoot camera to my eye. :D
http://www.nitnelav.com/Luck1.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/Luck2.jpg

[plinko]

So they went from vertical signage fins that broke up the facade to banner signs?

The disappointment continues...

I'm really not trying to be negative here, but the CVS building honestly looks like they took and old tilt up warehouse and cut come holes in it and added a corner entry. WTF? Why doesn't the glass + aluminum storefront corner wrap around to Central? It looks so...(stunted?)

There is still NO excuse for bad design.

[Vicelord John]

Those arent temp? Or at least in addition to the real signage?

[gymratmanaz]

I know I am an optimist, :) , but guys, look to the right and the left of the banks of flat signs.....see the double holes and the wires coming out...I am betting that these are for the protruding signs.

Someone said they wanted the dancing waters to be higher.....not sure how much you want. When I was down there today, they were all shooting a good 5-6 feet high.

[plinko]

^Yes, but the original permits called for 5-6 vertical signage fins per facade (south and west). This is poor. If this CVS was built at the corner of Gilbert Rd and Queen Creek Rd it would be poor. The architecture is atrocious and yet we are hoping that one of the saving graces will be signage. Think about it...

[Vicelord John]

I know I am an optimist, :) , but guys, look to the right and the left of the banks of flat signs.....see the double holes and the wires coming out...I am betting that these are for the protruding signs.

Someone said they wanted the dancing waters to be higher.....not sure how much you want. When I was down there today, they were all shooting a good 5-6 feet high.

At westgate they are 30 and dance to music.

[Phxguy]

http://www.nitnelav.com/Luck1.jpg


So I wonder if they're going to add anything on those 2 blank walls on the second floor.

[JAHOPL]

Already happened (not the grass though) to me because I was walking around inspecting everything. He told me it isn't open to the public right now only customers of CVS. I told him to fuck off, literally. I am starting to think I have no manners.

Manners can be purchased over the counter at CVS, ironically, in the pharmacy department. I think a week's supply will run you $20.;)

[Vicelord John]

Then i could go in the plaza too!

[phoenixwillrise]

So I wonder if they're going to add anything on those 2 blank walls on the second floor.

My former sign company did the Lucky Strikes Signage in the Mall of Orange, in Orange, CA and let's just say, they did not skimp. A bowling pin two stories high and expensive computerized imaged, porcelain signage. You have to know what the sign plan is for this project, whether they are going straight up by commercial zone signage allotments, or if it is a plan review, where there is an aggregate total of square footage. In some cases, like that, the developer can divide up the totals. (i.e. give tenant a, more then tenant b, etc)
As a former sign guy my observations of this project are that a high end quality project as this was originally hyped would have much more sophisticated signage then just your typical internally lighted channel letters, (Golds and CVS). In my 30 years of experience, the type of signage as we see on this project generally showed a developer, with no clue or class, or a desperate developer who was willing to get tenants in at all costs.

[NorthScottsdale]

did they design this block to allow for future build-up on top of it? Like, if in a few years they want to add apartments on top of this like was originally planned, could they do it?

[Phxguy]

My former sign company did the Lucky Strikes Signage in the Mall of Orange, in Orange, CA and let's just say, they did not skimp. A bowling pin two stories high and expensive computerized imaged, porcelain signage. You have to know what the sign plan is for this project, whether they are going straight up by commercial zone signage allotments, or if it is a plan review, where there is an aggregate total of square footage. In some cases, like that, the developer can divide up the totals. (i.e. give tenant a, more then tenant b, etc)
As a former sign guy my observations of this project are that a high end quality project as this was originally hyped would have much more sophisticated signage then just your typical internally lighted channel letters, (Golds and CVS). In my 30 years of experience, the type of signage as we see on this project generally showed a developer, with no clue or class, or a desperate developer who was willing to get tenants in at all costs.

Determining how this developer just decided to place banners and small vertical signage, I'm guessing they're going to place something cheap in the blank areas of the walls.

[Phxguy]

did they design this block to allow for future build-up on top of it? Like, if in a few years they want to add apartments on top of this like was originally planned, could they do it?

I think it was originally designed to be but then in 2008 they removed it. If not planning to then I don't know why they decide to keep the roof plastered white. If they don't add apartments above the retail they could add a community garden, a bar, or just a very low observation deck.

[JKPhx]

Imagine if Lucky Strike could have put lanes on the roof so you could bowl outside at night.

[gymratmanaz]

Hoping to say "I told you so". The 2 holes on each wall now have 2 beams coming out, the lower one sticking out 4 ft and the upper 6ft. Looks like a perpendicular sign going up. Hope it is lit and cool looking!!!!!

Also, I snuck in to Lucky Strike....really cool inside. I am sorry to say my camera was not with me. Bar area with hanging 2ft diameter white lit orbs in a bar/lounge area. The west side had hanging 2ft diameter red lit orbs. There are really classy looking sitting chairs and sofas, nice flooring, and layered stone work on some walls and pillars.

[AZScraper]

:koko:
http://i33.tinypic.com/2e1yk2f.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/25q3jfs.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/20a6sn8.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/9au9gw.jpg
Last one is toward the ballpark
:banana:

[PHX31]

Observation deck/suicide deck?

[dtnphx]

:shrug: I'm sorry, but what are we looking at in those photos?

[Tito714]

I'm guessing the top of Cityscape Tower

[Vicelord John]

It's the roof of tower, why is it screwy? you used the screwy face...

Is it because there is no apparent drainage system?

[AZScraper]

Vice, I was screwy @the time(or koko), glad it's Friday... cheers
http://i37.tinypic.com/35cr7sy.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/rmk22a.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/2w39xsg.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/2vsf6uu.jpg
There is a cool lighting rod thinga-ma-bob w/poles and metal cord that goes round the top of the building, I almost touched it out of curiosity-but I didn't want to be the first to die in cityscape. :tup:

[dtnphx]

Meh news, but news nonetheless...

Two stores to open Friday at CityScape
Phoenix Business Journal

CityScape’s retail scene is slowly coming alive, ramping up for the fall.

In addition to the newly opened CVS, the only drugstore in downtown’s central core, two new stores are slated to open on Friday at the retail, office and entertainment complex bounded by First Avenue and First, Washington and Jefferson streets.

West of SoHo and Designer District are expected to open their doors Friday, according to CityScape’s Facebook page.

Other retail tenants to join them this fall include the Lucky Strike bowling alley, Urban Outfitters, restaurants Noodle and LGO Public House, and Oakville Grocery.

[Vicelord John]

my gf will be all over that shit. Glad we don't share money.

[Tito714]

and they posted new pics on their facebook page. Lucky strike put up some signage; bowling pins.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=497434&id=118100984871096#!/album.php?aid=31686&id=118100984871096

[dtnphx]

Good find, Tito. The bowling pin is kinda cool. Hopefully more will pop up and give it a more urban feel, especially at night.

[gymratmanaz]

Shoot just took pics of the pins. They sure look cool. Will be fun at night!!!!! Told you more was coming! :)

[plinko]

Similar to the signage they have in Hollywood and Kansas City. Outlined in white at night.

[Leo the Dog]

and they posted new pics on their facebook page. Lucky strike put up some signage; bowling pins.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=497434&id=118100984871096#!/album.php?aid=31686&id=118100984871096

I hope that's not the finished product on the water feature. It looks like a pipe burst from underground and the water is boiling up to the surface. Maybe they should put a "Cuidado piso mojado/Caution wet floor" sign out.

[Tito714]

Maybe they should, the day they opened CVS they turned on the water feature and it looked like a big fail.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh296/otrebmuh1991/100_1171.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh296/otrebmuh1991/100_1169.jpg

[CANUC]

Maybe they should, the day they opened CVS they turned on the water feature and it looked like a big fail.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh296/otrebmuh1991/100_1171.jpg



Wow, that is just freaking sad. Really? I would have to asked the designers: Who is going to use this feature? Downtown workers in their business attire? People who go downtown to dine, club, or visit the bolling alley? Doubtful and it certainly isn't going to be some soccer mom taking her kids to enjoy the "public plaza". As it looks now this thing is going to become nothing more than an annoying puddle maker that will eventually be turned off.

So what we have is an overly paved public space with a quirky feature that will get no real use and eventually be eliminated. Sound familiar?

[Crispy]

The water feature looks better now than it does in those pictures. It has the dancing water and lighting effects. Its not great but its better that what is pictured above.

[Tito714]

According to the Cityscape facebook page, Lucky Strike and Five Guys will open on Thursday August 26th.

[gymratmanaz]

I WENT IN LUCKY STRIKE AGAIN. LOOKS AWESOME!!!!!

5 guys were working on the dancing waters today.

[dtnphx]

CityScape Retailers Eye Aug. 26 Opening

http://www.downtownphoenix.com/blog/2010/08/cityscape-retailers-eye-aug-26-opening/

[gymratmanaz]

Cool news dtnphx!!!!

Was at Cityscape and bumped into the GC for Lucky Strike. He offered and took me inside for a tour. The place looks great. There is a public bowling and party area and also an area that can be sectioned off with a cool curtain for 4 private party lanes and their own bar area. Video screens all around. 3 reaaly nice pool tables, and big bar area with sofas and chairs, a DJ stand for the dance floor, awesome wood flooring, stone finishes, cool lighting.......

The kitchen was amazing and huge. They can definitely cran out a lot of food!

New signage is on the inside of the courtyard, revolving doors and regular doors for the entrance.

Can't wait to go when it is done and full!!!

[dtnphx]

Is this the official word that the Palomar hotel is under construction? If so, whoo hoo! Scroll down to last part of article.

Changes ahead for Phoenix hotels
Phoenix Business Journal - by Lynn Ducey

Despite a Phoenix City Council agreement approved nine months ago for a new hotel brand downtown, the Marriott Renaissance flag still hasn’t been hoisted at the Wyndham Phoenix.
Council members approved an incentive agreement last December to waive property taxes on the hotel at 50 E. Adams St.
David Krietor, assistant city manager of Phoenix, said negotiations are continuing between Marriott officials and the property’s current owners, including longtime Wyndham Phoenix owner Steve Cohn.
Cohn is general manager of the Wyndham and a principal in Phoenix Hotel Ventures LLC, the developer of the new Renaissance hotel.
“These hotel operating agreements are very complicated contracts. All the conversations I have had with the Wyndham ownership have been very positive,” Krietor said.
Cohn referred requests for comment to Phoenix Hotel Ventures spokesman Robert Johnson, who would not go into detail about the negotiations or what sticking points there might be, if any.
“We are still in negotiations to rebrand the hotel and therefore can’t comment further at this time,” he said.
Attempts to reach Marriott International Inc. officials via phone and e-mail at their corporate headquarters in Bethesda, Md., received no response.
Krietor said the city isn’t privy to details of the negotiations, but once a deal is signed between the two parties, the city’s approved government property lease excise tax will kick in. The 20-year GPLET deal calls for the city to collect excise taxes plus an annual fee from Phoenix Hotel Ventures. That fee increases annually, with the final payment to be $265,000. Over the course of the contract, the fees paid to the city will total $2.1 million.
The annual excise taxes are projected to be $300,000 a year. The property’s current annual property tax is about $700,000.
“The key thing is that they finalize their agreement with the Marriott. There is no city cash in the deal,” Krietor said.
Officials also said any streetscape upgrades of the hotel’s Adams Street arrival area is the developer’s responsibility, and the city won’t pay for that work.
Earlier this year, the Goldwater Institute filed court actions seeking documents related to the development agreement.
“We are interested because it looks initially like the city might be giving away taxpayer money, and the Arizona Constitution prohibits that. Our mission is to help represent taxpayers,” said Carrie Ann Sitren, an attorney for the conservative watchdog group.

Up next: the Westin
The Wyndham rebrand is one of several hotel projects in the pipeline for the city’s core.
A Westin hotel is set to open in February at the One Central Park East Building, 333 N. Central Ave., which also is home to the new corporate head-quarters of Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc.
Crews are building the hotel’s entry-way on the west side of the building.
The 278-room boutique property will occupy the 11th through 19th floors of the building. It will be geared toward the business traveler, with corner and junior suites, larger guest rooms and amenities on every floor, officials said.

“Tenant improvements are expected to start shortly. It’s very realistic that we will be in our hotel in February,” said Ryan Whitaker, director of equity investment at National Real Estate Advisors, the Washington-based company that owns the property.

CityScape hotel on track
A 240-room Kimpton Palomar Hotel is under construction at the CityScape mixed-use project near US Airways Arena in downtown Phoenix.
Jeff Moloznik, development manager of RED Development, which is building the project, said the tower is under construction at CityScape, which is bounded by First Avenue and First, Washington and Jefferson streets.
“This is going to be a first to market for the Palomar brand,” Moloznik said.
RED is attempting to secure stimulus-related bond money allocated to the state to help finance the hotel. That hasn’t impacted construction so far.
“Our property is located within a recovery zone,” Moloznik said. “Securing this bond money would allow us to lower our cost for borrowing.”
If RED can secure that funding, the developer still would have to pay back the money.
“Regardless, we will will move forward with the hotel,” Moloznik said.
The Kimpton Palomar is slated to open sometime next year.

[plinko]

^Not without a permit it's not under construction. Also, see post #5295. The new architects haven't even had the project long enough to have design reconciliation, let alone permittable construction documents.

HX? Any word?

[AZ KID]

Well I just checked the permit database and there are still no new permits regarding the hotel.

[gymratmanaz]

Can we submit a permit for them? Would that do the trick? LOL :)

[PhxPavilion]

The crane has been moving today so something is happening.

[gymratmanaz]

Jobs for 5 Guys burger posted on NW corner.

Not sure what the crane was moving for. Nothing major happened that can be seen. Hopefully more framing for 1st 2 stories!

[HooverDam]

5 powerhouse law firms will make homes in CityScape's new downtown office tower

2 comments by Jahna Berry - Aug. 14, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Five Phoenix law firms have moved into the office high-rise in downtown Phoenix's Cityscape project or have plans to move there.

The Squire, Sanders and Dempsey firm and the firm of Ballard, Spahr, Andrews and Ingersoll as well as Jennings Strouss & Salmon have moved in already. Gust Rosenfeld and Polsinelli Shughart will relocate this fall.


Leaders of the firms say that they were enticed to move to the downtown complex's tower because they got competitive leases, new space and a foothold in an up-and-coming neighborhood.

Jennings Strouss is metro Phoenix's seventh-largest law firm in terms of the number of lawyers, according to Who's Who in Business, Republic Media's 2010 ranking of local firms, and Gust Rosenfeld is tied for No. 10. Law firms will fill up about half of the office space in the 600,000-square-foot office building.

"Having so many firms occupy the office tower is important to us because it affirms the prominence and stature of the building and the project," said Jeff Moloznik of RED Development LLC.

While Ballard Spahr and Polsinelli Shughart are moving from midtown to downtown, the other firms came to CityScape from other downtown buildings, Jennings Strouss and Gust Rosenfeld both had leases at Collier Center, 201 E. Washington St. Squire, Sanders moved from Renaissance Square at 40 N. Central Ave.

The law firms are the latest additions to the $900 million hub of offices, shops and restaurants. CityScape's 27-story office building at First and Washington streets has been open since April, but the rest of the project will open gradually over several months. Some parts, including a boutique hotel, are projected to open late next year.

The sprawling three-block development is bordered by First Avenue and Second, Washington and Jefferson streets. A grand opening is planned for the fall.

"Cityscape will be - is - a really nice project," said Marty Harper, managing partner of Polsinelli Shughart's Phoenix office. The firm will move about 115 employees into 69,000 square feet of office space. The firm is now in midtown Phoenix at 3636 N. Central Ave.

"The amenities down there, the extra restaurants, the sporting facilities, some of our people are interested in using light rail to get to and from there they live," Harper said. "It's been the whole package that's been most attractive."

Law firms interviewed for this story would not disclose lease terms, but many central Phoenix office tenants have benefited from a renter's market.

At the same time that downsized businesses freed up office space, new office buildings were looking for tenants. That stiff competition for renters forced many landlords, such as CityScape, to sweeten their lease offers with relatively low rates, tenant-improvement deals and other goodies.

Ballard Spahr moved its 40 workers to CityScape from 3300 N. Central Ave. Road.

"They were aggressive in their total package that they offer to tenants," said Stephen Savage, Ballard Spahr's Phoenix managing partner.

The CityScape lease for 35,000 square feet was less expensive than the proposal from another building the firm considered in the tony 24th Street and Camelback Road neighborhood.

Like most real-estate deals, location was key, the firm's representatives said.

CityScape is on the light-rail line as well as near the Suns arena and the D-Backs stadium.

CityScape also plans to include several eateries affiliated with Valley restaurateurs. That includes Bob Lynn, owner of the La Grande Orange restaurant group, who plans to open LGO Public House.

The project also is within blocks of county and federal courthouses. Plus, Arizona State University may move its Tempe-based law school to downtown Phoenix.

"The ASU campus down there adds a tremendous amount," said Harper of Polsinelli Shughart, adding that many of the firm's lawyers hail from ASU or University of Arizona. "We hire quite heavily from both of the law schools, so having it close would be really good. We have the relationship there."

There was also a sprinkle of politics in the negotiations. Some firms, including Polsinelli Shughart, had meetings with Mayor Phil Gordon, who wanted to sway firms either to relocate downtown or to stay in the city.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/08/14/20100814biz-cityscape0814.html#ixzz0wplFdH63

So in other words, while its nice CityScape is filling up, other downtown towers are emptying. Just like Freeport-McMoRan moving from their current building over to OCPE.

This is really discouraging to me. The City and Downtown Developers need to do a much better job of attracting firms from the suburbs and outer rings of the city into downtown, as well as out of state companies.

EDIT: VV I didnt mean specifically law firms, I just mean businesses in general.

[Crispy]

Seems like damn near every firm is downtown right now. I don't know who you are going to attract that isn't already there.

[renone]

I can't tell what its doing, but I agree, the tower crane has been moving all day. First time in a week that its been that active. You can also see the five guys burgers team working inside. They put up banners on the windows and are definitly making progress. Good to see.

[KingLouieLouie76]

I am extremely excited on the following:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=515751&fbid=154057291275465&id=118100984871096

Wow, Cityscape keeps on getting better and better.....

[Vicelord John]

Ugh, I don't know what all the hoopla over Jimmy John's is. My girlfriend is from Nebraska and when they opened a JJ in Tempe we had to go. I thought the bread was kind of stale feeling and they do not offer a whole lot in the line of fresh veggies on their subs. Yeah, they deliver, but do you think this one at Cityscape will? Probably not.

Also, I thought all the retail spaces were full. Does the announcement of Charming Charlie and Jimmy John's mean something else announced previously is now in the trash?

I need Vitamin T and Rasputin to open for sure, as well as the Ramen Bar. Anything else I'm fine without (LGO Public House.)

[Phxguy]

I'll be in downtown tomorrow and post pics of the site. Anyone want any particular areas on the site to be photographed? And yes I'll try to find a way into Lucky Strike to sneak a few shots of it, if not I might go next weekend when it opens.

[Vicelord John]

I think we have seen just about every angle there is to see. Place an emphasis on quality over quantity. I'm tired of these point and shoot blurboxes they keep putting on the facebook.

[gymratmanaz]

They seem anxious to let people in to see Lucky Strike. Been in 4 times now, but damnit, never with my camera. My bad! It is really nice, classy, cool, will be a hit!

The Lucky Strike light up bowling pin signs look cool at night. Pics of them would be cool if there at night.

Pics from the Lucky Strike door looking down and across would be a good angle.....

[Phxguy]

I will definetly have my camera on me at the time and will talk to the workers around Lucky Strike. I think we'll be there until about evening or so.

[Vicelord John]

hey, kid, where are your pics?

and here is a little nostalgia for you all.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/earnstyoung.jpg

[Phxguy]

Check my downtown Phoenix pics. Unfortunately there were no workers that I saw around Lucky Strike but I did see people in Five Guys. When I approached the door they stopped talking and stared at us.

[glynnjamin]

Lucky Strike opened yesterday. Anyone got photos?

[gymratmanaz]

Great article in the republic today about Cityscape. I am confused though. It lists both an LGO coffee shop and LGO Gastro Pub???? Will there be both? I am friends with Bob, so i will ask him when I see him, but does anyone know about this?

Also, it looks like next to the Lucky Strike will be some sort of grouping of a few restaurants or maybe a cool upscale food court kind of thing. Window posters next to Lucky Strike in the big space make it look like this. Anyone????

[Vicelord John]

Thats exactly what i want. A fucking food court.

I thought lucky strike pushed opening to tomorrow. What gives glynnjamin?

[KingLouieLouie76]

A pretty decent read....It essentially explains when some of the establishments are opening....

http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/dining/articles/2010/08/25/20100825phoenixs-cityscape-restaurants-bars-line-up-openings.html

[gymratmanaz]

I think Lucky Strike is doing a soft open. They served some on Wednesday too. Today i think are VIP's, then open for all tomorrow. They are shaking the kinks out, so the staff is ready for tomorrow.

[renone]

I drove by last night at about 8:00pm and there were a ton of people hanging out by the fountains and around Lucky Strike for their VIP opening. Music, drinks, it looked great. Not really a big deal, but it was cool seeing that many people hanging out in what used to be a disgusting park nobody wanted to set a foot in.

[renone]

Also, I can see people working inside the urban outfitters portion of the building for the first time. Hopefully that will be opening soon.

[gymratmanaz]

I went last night. It was really cool. The lighting looked great, fun seeing the dancing waters going and lit individually, the stores that are opening today were all lit and open last night, new window posters for STAND UP LIVE and 2 of the clothing stores and 3 more restaurants were up, lots of people hanging out around the courtyard. Fun vibe!!!!!!

[HX_Guy]

Article and photos...

http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/bars/articles/2010/08/27/20100827phoenix-lucky-strike-lanes-opens.html

http://www.azcentral.com/photo/Entertainment/Nightlife/15946#phototop

I love the comments Im reading in the article, things like "I would drive from Queen Creek and pass 10 bowling alleys to come here" and "There is nothing else like this in the state." That is EXACTLY what downtown needs...unique places that you can't go anywhere else for. I can't wait to go check it out, I have a feeling it will become a regular hang out spot.

[Vicelord John]

it would be a regular hangout spot for me if it weren't $14 for a game of bowling... I don't know for sure that's the price but thats what it was in Belleviue.

I was there for a few minutes last night. Didn't get to bowl because the lanes were so busy but I had a drink and poked around. It was a neat place. I have a feeling it's going to attract a lot of popped collar douches and probably many of the Mexicans who think they are on Jersey Shore.

[HX_Guy]

Not saying Im a fan of the popped collar douches but I would welcome another mix of people into the downtown scene. Basically right now you have the thug types that go to the clubs on Washington, then you have the gay crowd that goes to the Amsterdam and then you have the sort of artsy/hippie crowd that goes to a lot of the places like Roosevelt. If someone does want to dress up a bit and have a more upscale night, there aren't that many choices in venues or crowds. Until now.

[Vicelord John]

This is true. The more the merrier.

[gymratmanaz]

Amen!!!!!!!

[HX_Guy]

Stopped by Cityscape tonight to check out the scene at Lucky Strike, planning to go with friends next weekend but my first impression wasn't all that great. Not with the place, the place is great, but they would not let me in with my camera. After checking my ID, the guy asks me "Who are you taking pictures for?" I tell him just for myself and he says he has to check with management then comes back and says they can't allow it. I couldn't believe it...I asked "So you can't take cameras inside? What if you come with friends, you can't take pictures?" He said my camera "Looks too professional". I had my 1Ds but who gives a shit, pretty bullshit.

Anyway, here are what I was able to take outside and then some interior shots with my cell phone.

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/5.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/6.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/7.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/9.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/10.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTAug272010/11.jpg

[Vicelord John]

Went back friday night for the second night in a row. Bowled this time. One game for two ppl with shoe rental was $24! $2 bud light drafts every day after 9pm is the way to go.

One thing was funny. Theyade my friend take his hat off. Later we watched like three guys with hats hang ou in front of the bouncer and we kind of were like wtf!? Apparetly they were wearing "fashionable headwear" and that is ok. Hahah so no ballcaps.

[HX_Guy]

Yea, no "head gear" unless it's hats or stylish caps, so no baseball caps.
Here is their dress code..


Dress Code: Lucky Strike

Dress Code Strictly Enforced

Neat, Casual Fitted Attire

For example the following items are not permitted:

- Athletic wear, sweats or sports jerseys*
- Excessively baggy clothing (Tuck-ins not permitted)
- MC Colors
- Sleeveless t-shirts
- Plain white t-shirts (short or long sleeve)
- Construction boots**
- Ripped or soiled clothing
- Head Gear

Hats and stylish caps are permitted.
*Game day exceptions for local teams and their opponents
**Seasonal exceptions at management’s discretion

What the hell are MC Colors?

Also, after 9pm, it's 21 and over only. I watched a family of 5 last night get turned back because they had their 3 kids with them.

[Vicelord John]

colors are what motorcycle gangs wear. MC Colors are like the jackets that have the patches, etc.

If they let guys wear their colors in the bar, there would undoubtedly be fights.

and yeah, I understand the rule but just found it very funny that some hats are allowed but others aren't.

[Phxguy]

What's the minimal age you have to be to get into Lucky Strike?

[HX_Guy]

What's the minimal age you have to be to get into Lucky Strike?

21 after 9pm.

[Phxguy]

21 after 9pm.

Okay thanks, I'm almost 16 1/2 so I didn't think with a place with this type of vibe would allow me to bowl.

[HooverDam]

The purple lights help make the place look a little less awful than it does during the day, so thats something.

HX_Guy, I think what you should've done is asked to speak with the manager. Told him you were taking photos for yourself and for this site, a site that promotes and discusses Downtown and Downtown businesses. If he couldn't understand that what you're doing helps his business, then he would just be an idiot.

[Jsmscaleros]

I'll stick to Brunswick, thanks. But hey, more power to you if you can drop that kinda scratch on bowling!

[Vicelord John]

yeah, it's not like an every day type of thing for sure! I like to bowl at Sunset bowl on 12th street and hatcher. It's a little indie kind of bowling alley and it's super cheap and independetly owned.

FYI, though, Lucky Strike has a deal monday through friday from 11-3 where if you buy a $5.50 lunch, you get a free game. You do have to pay $3 for shoe rental plus you'll probably have a soda, so anticipate $12 with tax and tip for lunch and a game of bowling. Works for me!

[gymratmanaz]

Those day prices work for me too, John.

PLUS, if you go at night, you don't have to bowl. Eat, Drink, People Watch, and Dance. It is a nightclub with a DJ at night.

[Vicelord John]

Perhaps we have the workings of the next forum meet..... there have to be a few of us who could swing a lunch and bowl session. Do a nice little walking tour and photo session of cityscape and then bowl a game and have lunch.

I'd love this to be a more tightly knit group. Many of us know each other but it'd be nice if some of the outsiders showed up.

[Tempe_Duck]

Perhaps we have the workings of the next forum meet..... there have to be a few of us who could swing a lunch and bowl session. Do a nice little walking tour and photo session of cityscape and then bowl a game and have lunch.

I'd love this to be a more tightly knit group. Many of us know each other but it'd be nice if some of the outsiders showed up.

I could be convinced to do a meet at Lucky Strike.

[Don B.]

Based on what I've seen and read about Lucky Strike, I have no desire to ever set foot in the place. But don't let my grouchiness rain on a potential forum meet...I do not need to be there.

Nice pics, HX.

--don

[gymratmanaz]

Is a week from Monday, Laybor Day a possibility? Is it open then? All other weekedays are no good for me due to work. I might be able to get off on Friday by 2:30 and race there just in time for the 3:00 cutoff.

By the way, on the way back from rehearsal tonight I drove by. There were workmen and some cutting machines. Looks like they are looking into the cascading waters that come out of the walls. They do need some tweeking so they don't look like they run all over the place. They need more control of the flow.

On the way this evening, there were many groups of kids with parents going up to Lucky S. Nice to see!!!

[HX_Guy]

I was just talking to gymratmanaz about this the other day...comparing the opening of Arizona Center and Cityscape, as I wasn't around when Arizona Center opened. Anyone else remember it...how would you compare the tow?

CityScape venues hopeful they’ll buck downtown trend
PHOENIX BUSINESS JOURNAL - BY Mike Sunnucks & Jan Buchholz

Restaurants and drugstores open and close regularly in big cities. But when those types of businesses open in downtown Phoenix, it’s a big deal.
The Valley’s urban core has labored for decades to shed the after-hours “ghost town” image that has kept many restaurants and retailers away from the area. Some of that is about to change as several newcomers prepare to open at CityScape, a major new mixed-use development downtown.
Questions, however, exist for the 13 restaurants and bars opening at the property:

• Can they make it in the historically challenging area?
• How will CityScape’s retail mix compare to the two-decades-old Arizona Center six blocks away?
• What kind of impact will CityScape have on the downtown restaurant and bar scene?

CityScape spokesman Jay Thorne said executives at RED Development, creators of the project, hope they have learned some lessons from the Arizona Center. The older property, at Third and Van Buren streets, has seen mixed results in trying to maintain an attractive blend of restaurants, retail and offices. Arizona Center has housed some successful restaurants over the years, but retail has been a struggle, and both business types come and go.
Some differences
Thorne said there are some key differences between CityScape and Arizona Center, which was developed by the Rouse Cos. and now is owned by General Growth Properties Inc.
“We’re right in the middle of downtown,” he said, noting that CityScape is near US Airways Center, Phoenix Convention Center, Chase Field, Collier Center and the Renaissance Square office towers.
Conversely, the Arizona Center is on downtown Phoenix’s northeastern edge, not as close to sports complexes, county court buildings or Phoenix City Hall.
“The Arizona Center kind of has its back turned to the street,” Thorne said.
CityScape, he hopes, will be “a connection point for everything that is going on downtown.”
General Growth officials declined to comment on what they think CityScape’s impact might be on the Arizona Center and downtown as a whole. The Chicago-based shopping center company is going through reorganization under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
General Growth also owns the Park West retail center in Peoria, Water Tower Place in Chicago, Baltimore’s Harborplace and Tysons Galleria in Northern Virginia. The Wall Street Journal reported Aug. 17 that the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission was investigating possible insider trading by GGP executives and directors.
Overcoming biases
Some restaurant managers at Arizona Center say they are having a tough time because of the economy, and they expect to see more restaurants go out of business there.
A manager at My Big Fat Greek Restaurant at the Arizona Center, who asked not be identified, said there are too many restaurants chasing too few customers. Despite that, he was confident the Greek restaurant would weather the economic storm. He did not see CityScape’s restaurants as major competitors for his business.
Sheldon Williams, manager of Hooters at the Arizona Center, said the downtown restaurant and bar scene still depends on weekday lunch crowds from office workers and convention visitors, as well as attendees of evening sporting events and concerts. He said Hooters offers happy hour and other specials aimed at bringing in patrons to watch games after work.
“We have a pretty good sports crowd,” he said.
Williams said downtown still needs to overcome some long-held biases against it, including parking challenges, to attract more foot traffic.
The Arizona Center also includes a Starbucks, Mi Amigo’s and Sam’s Cafe. It has one competitive advantage over CityScape: the 24-screen AMC Movie Theater, which is a draw for those living downtown and in surrounding areas.

CityScape has Gold’s Gym and a Tilted Kilt Restaurant, which competes directly with Hooters via scantily clad waitresses and a sports bar/pub theme. CityScape also will have the Lucky Strike Lanes, a bowling alley, restaurant and bar that could be a draw to the growing number of Arizona State University students attending classes and living downtown.
Changing mind-sets
A positive outcome, Thorne said, could have CityScape attracting more people downtown overall, which ultimately could boost all of the businesses in the core.
Thirteen restaurants and bars are slated to open in the next five months at CityScape, which occupies the former site of Patriots Park and some parking lots. A CVS drugstore already is open there, as well as a handful of shops.
Sam Fox, founder of Fox Restaurant Concepts, is opening a steakhouse at CityScape. Fox also owns Bloom, Olive & Ivy, Sauce and several other eateries.
He said he expects Sundays to be slow at CityScape, but he plans to offset that by “developing strong relationships with all of the businesses in the area” and cultivating private dining experiences.
“Although we always focus on building relationships with our guests, this restaurant in particular will be very relationship-driven,” he said.
Aaron May, co-owner of the Vitamin-T Mexican eatery opening at CityScape, said the key to success is changing mind-sets about downtown.
“For a long time, it seems like people have thought of downtown only for events, conventions, etc.,” he said. “We want to be a part of Phoenicians’ changing mind-set to head down on a regular basis for day and nighttime dining options.”

[PhxPavilion]

I know no one wants to hear it but until more people start living downtown nothing will change. Cityscape will end up just like the Arizona Center. With the exception of the Lucky Strike and sports, there is nothing downtown that you cannot find elsewhere, closer to where you live. This is how the majority of the population thinks.

The building boom before the crash gave us plenty more office space, restaurants and some retail but very little living (almost none affordable).

We should all face facts, Phoenix is about the least urban city in the country. People come here for the suburban life, a house with a yard to raise a family; the post WWII lifestyle spread across 150 square miles.

[HooverDam]

^Sadly I mostly agree. The lack of residential at CityScape is devastating. We thought we were getting apartments, condos and a hotel, and now we may not get any of that. I think CityScape will be more successful than AZ Center because more people know care about Downtown and want it to succeed. There are more Urban Pioneers maybe not living in the CBD, but in the surrounding neighborhoods. The Light Rail should help too...but the lack of residential downtown, especially affordable housing is killing Downtown.

[Evil Empire]

We should all face facts, Phoenix is about the least urban city in the country. People come here for the suburban life, a house with a yard to raise a family; the post WWII lifestyle spread across 150 square miles.

Very true. If I ever bring this up to any people (outside of this website or class), they stare at me like I'm insane...or they ask me "So? What's wrong with that?"

It sucks but that'll be the general consensus of practically everyone living here for at least a few more decades until that kind of thinking dies out...if it ever does here.

[ljbuild]

This cityscape "stuff" is turning out to be not to bad after all.

NOW ! If just the PHOENIX SUNS win a title, that would definetely


the "icing on the cake" in terms of downtown people traffic.

[Leo the Dog]

The lack of residential units will be a problem and unfortunately, even if they were to build two towers with hundreds of units, that alone, wouldn't support 13 restaurants. The location of CS (near government, jails, courts and banks) is in a residential dead-spot, with not too much potential to further add units in the immediate area. I think DT's future lies a few blocks to the north along Roosevelt. Many cities don't have much vibrancy in the heart of their gov't/financial districts but just outside of them.

Currently, I do think it'll do great during weekday lunch, game nights and hotel guests attending large conventions, but I don't expect local Phoenicians going out of their way to make an appearance here, unless they're attending something else (game, concert, court appearance). Off days/nights, it'll most likely be sleepy.

[NorthScottsdale]

I think that CityScape will be successful.. It just has a way different vibe from Arizona Center. A vibe that is fun and fresh, sort of like an urban tempe marketplace. There are definitely two places that I will probably frequent regularly, Lucky Strike and the Vodka Bar. Those are just my type of places. Oh, and the 24 hour diner will probably get a lot of business from me as well.. especially since I will finally be moving into Central Phoenix in a couple weeks, as soon as I get back from New Orleans

Most of my friends are also saying that they are loving CityScape

[glynnjamin]

Remember when we used to have the chicken & egg argument about downtown?

"No one lives downtown because there is nothing to do"
"There's nothing to do downtown because no one lives there"

We've given people things to do and places to live. What gives? Oh right - it's the economy, stupid.

[caviar]

@ ViceLord, Gymratz, HXGuy, HooverDam and all the rest of the regular posters...THANKS!!! I work on the 15th floor at Ren II and have watched the tear down and build out for years...and thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your comments....really gave me more insight into what I was watching from my window...I was worried your were all going to go away now that it was almost complete, but apparently, not just yet. Again, thanks, I will continue to enjoy reading...

[Vicelord John]

Although there is a significant lack of residential downtown, I think these places will do fine if they don't over-saturate the market, which is what they are heading to unfortunately. There are more people on the streets downtown now than I've ever seen. There are actually people out at night walking and going places. It's very very very different from 5 years ago, or when I used to go downtown to explore back in high school... it was an absolute ghost town back then.

I think Urban Outfitters will flourish because of it's proximity to the train and ASU. I think Charming Charlie will be fine because of the proximity to young mexican girls who like to over-accessorize. Everything else retail wise is a crap shoot.

On the restaurant front, there are just going to be so many places with so few people around. They will have to be bringing people in from outside of the city, and doing a lot of business with conventioners.

[HX_Guy]

I think that CityScape will be successful.. It just has a way different vibe from Arizona Center. A vibe that is fun and fresh, sort of like an urban tempe marketplace. There are definitely two places that I will probably frequent regularly, Lucky Strike and the Vodka Bar. Those are just my type of places. Oh, and the 24 hour diner will probably get a lot of business from me as well.. especially since I will finally be moving into Central Phoenix in a couple weeks, as soon as I get back from New Orleans

Most of my friends are also saying that they are loving CityScape

I agree that Cityscape has a completely different vibe than Arizona Center, which is why I was asking for those of you who remember how Arizona Center felt when it first opened, did it have the same vibe?

Cityscape to me feels very different than Arizona Center mostly due to it's layout. Even though it does have a lot of sides that turn their back on the street, when "inside" the project, you still feel like you are downtown where as with Arizona Center you feel like you are in an outdoor mall...you don't see cars, you don't really see any buildings tower above (aside from the Sheraton now) but it feels very isolated. Cityscape almost feels like a street that has been shut down to car traffic. I like that you have buildings towering over you (well, sort of towering, as much as is possible in Phoenix) and will be even better once the hotel goes up plus the fact that it's completely open to Central.
It also has a much more "happening" vibe to it, at least so far with the Lucky Strike and Designer District plus some of the other restaurants coming up like the Fox restaurant.

Back to the design though...I was a group of 4 people confused out of their mind on how to get "into" the place on Friday night. They were over by the CVS on 1st Ave and Jefferson...they walked north of 1st but only about 1/2 way and then turned around...then walked east on Jefferson about 1/2 way and couldn't figure out where the entrance into the Lucky Strike way.
They really should have done some sort of access into the middle courtyard from that corner...some passage way or something. They should at least put up some signs or something telling people where to go.

[HX_Guy]

On the restaurant front, there are just going to be so many places with so few people around. They will have to be bringing people in from outside of the city, and doing a lot of business with conventioners.

Luckily a lot of the restaurants/entertainment places are destination type places that people will drive to from outside Central Phoenix for I think. I mean the Fox restaurants, especially the bigger ones, like Modern Steak and Olive and Ivy are definitely places where I know people from all over drive to go to. The Vodka bar is another that I think will have a good draw...we'll see about the others, obviously not all of them will do as well as others but hopefully everything can feed off each other. The Lucky Strike and Stand Up Live will certainly draw people from everywhere.

Look at Bianco and Cibo, they have absolutely no problem drawing people from everywhere.

[gymratmanaz]

I agree with HX on the sign saying how to access the entrance, one CVS is closed....though if you are confused and give up on figuring out how to get to the Lucky Strike from the CVS corner.....maybe you shouldn't be wielding heavy objects like bowling balls to begin with.

I am very excited about how it is filling in. Will be fun as each shop opens. It totally has a city vibe, compared to AZ Center then and now.

The increase in ASU students this year will help it succeed. Hopefully as the year progresses, more of the condos will sell and add to the numbers. The hotel additions, at the Freeport and hopefully Cityscape will help too.

Vicelord is right, there is a noticeable difference in people out at night from 5 years ago. We need more, but it is happening. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Phxguy]

I agree with all the posters above about how downtown's changed. After spending a day there walking in 104 degrees all day I still was walking past tourists, buisness people, downtown ambassadors, and by Heritage Square artists and many college students with cameras taking pictures as I was. A welcoming back party for college students in Civic Space Park was underway, and by the time we came back from a brief walk Midtown it was packed. Not to mention at any time of day the light rail is crowded. I even saw kids younger than me taking it downtown. Cityscape will defiently attract much more of those people. When I entered the plaza there were a few groups of people just hanging out by the fountains at 3 pm. As night fell and the game at Chase Field ended it was wall to wall people for 3 blocks heading into downtown. Also while walking back from San Carlos Hotel to Buchanan and 4th street, the streets were much busier than before. The problem as stated above is the lack of residents. But you first must attract the proper needs before that happens.

[Leo the Dog]

I still think AZ Center has potential to turn around. The lush landscaping, decent shade with the misters is an oasis in the city. While not designed for urban interaction, it has its own charm.

It'd be nice if the city were to somehow promote and connect CS to AZ Center via pedestrian thoroughfare, so they don't compete, but rather compliment each other. ie: Create a pedestrian zone with connections to ASU (down 1st St to Taylor or VB).

[dtnphx]

Have we ever seen or discussed what kind of signage there will be that says "Cityscape"? We all seem to know where it is, but for others who don't know (temporary window posters excepted) it could be a problem. Just in LA and visited some incredible shopping districts that have great destination sineage and I hope they don't forget that very important detail.

[Vicelord John]

good thought. I'm not sure where it would go though...

[HooverDam]

I actually hope there isn't specific CityScape signage. For one, its a terrible name, but mostly I want people to say "Im going to Lucky Strike, Downtown" or "Im going to a Comedy Show, downtown." Cityscape, or Arizona Center or any name like that just makes it sound like a lame suburban experience.

EDIT: Since Im out of town, next time someone is down at CityScape Id appreciate if they'd keep their eyes open for me and let me know if "Stand Up Live!" has a website advertised or anything. Ive Googled and haven't found anything, Im interested in finding some info about the place.

[Vicelord John]

I agree the name is shit.