Phoenix CityScape Thread

[HX_Guy]

I got an email back from the contact at RED and the event is open to the public. Who can make it? Someone has to be able to.

[Vicelord John]

bitch. I thought it said tuesday...

[gymratmanaz]

I am in NYC. DAMN. I would love to be there Thursday!!!!!!!!!

I am going to the Phil Gordon GREEN - coffee meeting Wednesday morning. I just got my confirmation.

[HX_Guy]

Shit! If it was any other day Id be there...or even later on in the day on Thursday. Son of a bitch. Someone has to be able to attend this thing.

I may try and make the Wednesday morning coffee thing...do you have the contact info Chris? Who do I email to RSVP?

[PHX31]

I may possibly be able to make it... if i'm not too busy at work.

[secotes]

You guys suck balls!

This is a once in a lifetime chance.........(if your life sucks)

And you can't make it because of work?

Fuckin' Nancy Ass Bitches!!!!!!!!

I also have to work but I'll be there.

[HooverDam]

Is this the thing that costs like $50 or is it free? I have a terrible memory :(

[HX_Guy]

This is free and completely separate from the other thing which is in August.

[HX_Guy]

You guys suck balls!

This is a once in a lifetime chance.........(if your life sucks)

And you can't make it because of work?

Fuckin' Nancy Ass Bitches!!!!!!!!

I also have to work but I'll be there.

Mine isn't because of work...I have to be at this court thing that I can't reschedule. If it was work, I'd say fuck it. :D

See if you can ask any questions about tower 2, or maybe get one of the reporters to ask about it (still going condos...completion date...will work continue once the garage reaches street level). Oh yea, and take notes! :D

[HooverDam]

This is free and completely separate from the other thing which is in August.

Oh sweet, Ill go then. One of the blessings of working freelance, nothing to do on this particular Thursday morning.

I better right out questions ahead of time though.

What all do we want to know?

Tower 1 stuff:
Id be interested to know if there will be retail on the bottom floor or if its all going to just be office/lobby type stuff. What about the side facing inwards towards the 2nd tower, will it have retail?

Tower 2 stuff:
Height of Tower 2? Condos v Office for tower 2? Going to be capped off at grade a la Colliers? Completion date

Retail/PSP block:
Newly announced tenants. Anything else?

3rd block:
Probability of the 3rd block getting built upon anytime in the next few years. What else?

Ill bring my camera too, I hope they let everyone go up in the tower, not just media folks. Heavens knows this project is definitely more meaningful and being followed by more closely by those on this board than any media schlub.

Hx_Guy did your person at RED say you need to RSVP for it? Or if I show up at 8am on Thursday will I be good?

[gymratmanaz]

Ask about:
* the pedestrian bridge specs?
* Start date for PSP block construction?
* How many tenants have signed leases and for which blocks?
* Anyone with naming rights on either tower?
* Any plans for the Sales Center that was started and unfinished?
* Since you (Phil Gordon) just held a green meeting on Wednesday morning, are any aspects of Cityscape "Green" or Leed certified???
* Does the press or City Hall know about our forum?

[Leo the Dog]

Does the press or City Hall know about our forum?

I would hope not, we don't want this to become an AZCentral part II.

[HX_Guy]

Tower 2 stuff:
Height of Tower 2? Condos v Office for tower 2? Going to be capped off at grade a la Colliers? Completion date

Hx_Guy did your person at RED say you need to RSVP for it? Or if I show up at 8am on Thursday will I be good?

I would go about tower 2 a different way. I don't think they would ever say it would it's officially capped, I'd be surprised if Colliers even considers it capped, they probably just consider it "under development".

Ask what the construction timeline for the south tower is. They will probably say it's already under construction since the core is going up but I'd ask them specifically if the tower construction will continue without lapse once the core and garage reach grade.

No RSVP is needed.

One other tidbit...there is a short article in the New Times about the event on Thursday. They talked to the rep from RED, Jay Thorne, who said the office tower is 70% leased, which if I remember correctly, is 16% more then the last update we heard of. Thats a increase of 99,200 sq ft which is huge.

Thursday can't come soon enough.

[Jsmscaleros]

In the words of Michael McDonald - Ya mo' be there.

[gymratmanaz]

It's like Christmas. We all want to open the big package under the tree.

Maybe also ask about the space owned by Wells Fargo that they are trying to sublease.?

[Don B.]

I'll go as well. Being basically unemployed right now, I have more time than sense at the moment.

My primary goal will be to capture photos. No matter what they tell you in terms of answers to questions, it's all fungible and subject to change, so much of the minutiae will be irrelevant anyway.

--don

[Vicelord John]

I'll go as well. Being basically unemployed right now, I have more time than sense at the moment.

My primary goal will be to capture photos. No matter what they tell you in terms of answers to questions, it's all fungible and subject to change, so much of the minutiae will be irrelevant anyway.

--don

So correct. They are going to talk all the best case scenarios to look good to the media.

[kingofleos]

So correct. They are going to talk all the best case scenarios to look good to the media.

Maybe you should use that mouth of yours and call them out for their bs. :cheers:

I'd like to go, but have to work. Can't wait to hear more on this.

[Vicelord John]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_0005-1.jpg

[courtjester]

Hi folks,
I just joined the forum. I've been reading your posts for years now and I'm looking forward to adding to the hate and discontent. Oh, and blind/defensive love of all things related to Downtown Phoenix (only half joking)!

Here's the New Times article about CityScape finally "topping out" (not in a gay way. not that there's anything wrong with it!)...

CityScape Project in Downtown Phoenix to Celebrate "Topping Out" Milestone, But Office Space Market Still Shaky
By Ray Stern in NewsMonday, Jul. 13 2009 @ 3:28PM


Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon will help celebrate the "topping out" of a new, city-subsidized office tower downtown this Thursday.

With the state of the Valley's office space market, though, we couldn't help but wonder if the festivity will include a large, neon "Vacancy" sign for the roof.

Our suggestion elicits an honest chuckle from Jay Thorne, spokesman for the CityScape project. "I can't blame you for saying that," says Thorne in a brief phone call this afternoon.

The building is scheduled to open in March. Three months ago, it lost planned anchor tenant Wachovia Bank. Office space vacancy is expected to reach 24 percent in the Valley this year, according to a June Associated Press article.

However, CityScape is doing way better than average in filling its 620,000 square feet of space, Thorne says.


"It's pushing towards 70 percent leased," he says. "It's a pretty nice success story."

Of course, part of that success comes after last year's downsizing of the whole project. One thousand condo units and a hotel are among the plans that blew away with the dustbowl-like housing market.


Still, city boosters have high hopes the high-stakes project at Central Avenue and Washington will add to the vitality of downtown Phoenix and synergize with the nearby light-rail line. The project is getting more than $100 million in city subsidies.

With that kind of backing, no wonder it's beating the odds.

[kingofleos]

Very nice shot!

[HX_Guy]

http://nitnelav.com/DTJuly142009/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTJuly142009/5.jpg

[gymratmanaz]

Is it me, or are we all avoiding the topic of the Bashas chapter 11? Does this put the new AJ's at Cityscape in danger?

[PhxPavilion]

Possibly, not necessarily.

On the topping off party, I would go if I could go up in the tower but it sounds like they are only allowing the media.

[Jsmscaleros]

Make up a newspaper and say you are the lead editor.

[gymratmanaz]

Phoenix Forum Press - Get going on a photoshop press pass! :)

[Tfom]

I've done that... it worked.

[HX_Guy]

Is it me, or are we all avoiding the topic of the Bashas chapter 11? Does this put the new AJ's at Cityscape in danger?

As PhxPavillion said, it's possibly, but not a certainty by any stretch.
They are doing a reorganizing...not completely shutting down.

[Jsmscaleros]

I'll whip up something and see if it works - worst they'll say is get outta here.

[Evil Empire]

As a part of the bankruptcy process, they are shutting down 10 additional stores: 7 Bashas stores and 3 Food City stores, no AJs are being closed. They said that that was enough to restructure everything they have planned for business after filing Chapter 11, I think they would have mentioned they were pulling out of CityScape. It sounded like none of the AJs were in danger.

[gymratmanaz]

Jsmscaleros - Make sure to put a copy of what you concoct on here. Love to see what devious minds can come up with. Remember, it is all in the name of good a rightiousness. In other words, it benefits US! :) :) :) :) :)

[kingofleos]

Remember, it is all in the name of good a rightiousness. In other words, it benefits US! :) :) :) :) :)

:cheers:

[PhxPavilion]

Would be funny if they did know about this site and were monitoring it.

[gymratmanaz]

This is a little Cityscape and some other things. I just got back from the Phil Gordon coffee this morning at the Civic Space Park.

* Hotel Palimar is on!
*Aj's in on, and the chapter 11 won't affect any AJ's, since they are the company's bread and butter.
*Tower #2 is on, but they are still deciding on what will be above it. They still want residential, but they say they still have time to decide and check the economy.
* They will make at least two big announcements tomorrow morning. None of the announcements of new tenants has been said before. I asked are they announcing something like "Breakfast Club is coming"? They said no, that these were new and big announcments.
* They said there will also be a couple announcments to follow this meeting tomorrow (over the following week or 2)
* Pictures to follow. Sent them to HX to post for me. ( Including the Cityscape topping out tree)

Other news...
*The subway on Central and across from the Hotel San Carlos is expanding south.
*The new Court Building is going to pour the outer foundation and then the big main foundation pour will be next week.
*

[Tfom]

Jsmscaleros - Make sure to put a copy of what you concoct on here. Love to see what devious minds can come up with. Remember, it is all in the name of good a rightiousness. In other words, it benefits US! :) :) :) :) :)

Go to the store and get it laminated with the heaviest laminate they have. And always pretend what your doing is normal.

[TAZ4ate0]

This is a little Cityscape and some other things. I just got back from the Phil Gordon coffee this morning at the Civic Space Park.

* Hotel Palimar is on!
*Aj's in on, and the chapter 11 won't affect any AJ's, since they are the company's bread and butter.
*Tower #2 is on, but they are still deciding on what will be above it. They still want residential, but they say they still have time to decide and check the economy.
* They will make at least two big announcements tomorrow morning. None of the announcements of new tenants has been said before. I asked are they announcing something like "Breakfast Club is coming"? They said no, that these were new and big announcments.
* They said there will also be a couple announcments to follow this meeting tomorrow (over the following week or 2)
* Pictures to follow. Sent them to HX to post for me. ( Including the Cityscape topping out tree)

Other news...
*The subway on Central and across from the Hotel San Carlos is expanding south.
*The new Court Building is going to pour the outer foundation and then the big main foundation pour will be next week.
*

You da man! :D

Thanks for the good news and updates.

[gymratmanaz]

My pleasure. Glad you enjoy.

Can't wait to hear the announcements!!!!!!!!

[nickkoto]

Is the idea of rental apartments just completely out of the question for the residential portion?

[gymratmanaz]

Yes, the ones on the PSP side. OUT!

[Vicelord John]

Gymratman *is* cityscape.

[gymratmanaz]

Awwwww nice of you to say Vicelord. I do love the project so!!!!

While in NYC till the 27th, I will be going through withdrawals!!!!! :( Especially missing the announcement tomorrow. Plus I was just offered a tour of tower #1 on Sunday, that I have to miss. AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[HX_Guy]

Plus I was just offered a tour of tower #1 on Sunday, that I have to miss. AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for giving me the heads up, I just got an email back from Jack saying I could go up, just have to confirm on Saturday to make sure it's still a go. Its going to be awesome.

[gymratmanaz]

JEALOUS/ENVIOUS!!!!!!!!!! E-mail me. Cool? my gmail address.

He said he would take me up on his own when I get back.......

Enjoy you lucky duck!

[Vicelord John]

How do i go up? I wanna go up

[kaneui]

A Phoenix Activity Report is the cover story of Southwest Contractor's July issue, including an article on CityScape with photos and drawings:

http://southwest.construction.com/features/archive/2009/0709_F2_CityScape.asp

[HX_Guy]

From that article...ours first confirmation that the hotel will not continue construction once the garage hits grade. Thought on a positive note, it also means that they wont' cap it off, but more like put it on hold for a few months. We'll see what happens.

Next comes CityScape’s Palomar Hotel. Earnest says RED is working through the financing now, and he expects construction to start by the end of the year. The 250-room hotel will be south of the tower.

[Leo the Dog]

Would be funny if they did know about this site and were monitoring it.

I wouldn't doubt it. Google CityScape Phoenix and this is the 2nd hit that comes up. I'm sure they check it frequently.

[HX_Guy]

I'm sure they check it frequently.

And probably think..."What the hell is wrong with these people, don't they have anything better to do? Why do they care so much?"

Or maybe that's just what I'm asking myself. :koko: :D

[Leo the Dog]

:previous: :haha:

[Vicelord John]

And probably think..."What the hell is wrong with these people, don't they have anything better to do? Why do they care so much?"

Or maybe that's just what I'm asking myself. :koko: :D

that's exactly what they would think. I think every once in a while when gymratmanaz is investigating cityscape that either he has nothing to do, or should take jhana berry's place at the Republic. That stupid bitch is worthless.

[Vicelord John]

From that article...ours first confirmation that the hotel will not continue construction once the garage hits grade. Thought on a positive note, it also means that they wont' cap it off, but more like put it on hold for a few months. We'll see what happens.

Unfortunately, the exact same announcement was made at Collier Center about their second tower when they capped it off. They said they would be waiting a while to decide what to do, and well you know how it sits now.

Sorry guys, but it doesn't look like cityscape will make it to the second tower right now.

[Leo the Dog]

Why doesn't Colliers or the city go to Marriott, Intercontinental, Hilton or, hell, another Starwood property to really push for another DT Hotel at the capped off space on 3rd St? Great location for another convention hotel, directly across the street from the South Building. It doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to sell the idea.

From what I understand, dt still needs more hotel rooms to accommodate the huge conventions that the new CC attracts. Just look to San Diego and how many huge hotels they have around their convention center.

[HX_Guy]

Republic of Coture was announced in a news story on KTAR...anyone ever heard of it?

[Vicelord John]

http://www.republicofcoutureboutique.com/

[PHX31]

Well, I'll let HooverDam, or Don B., or whoever went to the CityScape thing this morning break all their news they could gather about the project... but I heard from someone who went that the following were announced:

Republic of Couture
Designer District
The Breakfast Club
Mojo (yogurt)---- This place is awesome (anyone been?). The ones on Mill and at the Biltmore shopping center are always packed.
Blu Burger Grill
AJ's
Fox Restaurants
CVS
2 Aaron May restaurants.

[andrewkfromaz]

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1189787

During the topping out ceremony Thursday, RED Development announced nine new office, retail and restaurant tenants coming to CityScape.

They are Aaron May restaurants, The Breakfast Club, Blu Burger Grille, Press Coffee, Mojo yogurt, Designer District, Republic of Couture and Gust Rosenfeld law firm.

Other tenants previously committed include Fox Restaurant Concepts; Fidelity National Title; Gold's Gym; Squires, Sanders and Dempsey; Ballard, Spahr, Andrews and Ingersoll; Jennings, Strouss and Salmon; and Kimpton Palomar Hotel.

Press Coffee from CityNorth is awesome, dunno what most of the rest is. Aaron May's restaurants - are these the 3 or 4 super ambitious restaurants that were in a Republic piece a few weeks ago? I love this news about Press Coffee, though, they're good people.

[Vicelord John]

what is designer district?

[kingofleos]

They have the news up on the mainpage of azcentral now.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/07/16/20090716cityscape0716-ON.html

[NorthScottsdale]

THis article says that the condos and hotel are happening.. but then again it is the Republic that is reporting it... It just says that a second hotel and a thousand more condos are what is being put on hold..

6 new restaurants join CityScape project
Jahna Berry
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 16, 2009 09:35 AM

Six restaurants, two boutiques and a law firm will join a $900 million project that is under construction in downtown Phoenix.

CityScape is a cluster of businesses that will include an office tower, shops, eateries, a hotel and 165 condos. The first parts of the project are expected to open in Spring 2010.

The project is bordeed by First Avenue, Second Street, Washington Street and Jefferson Street.





Today, developer RED Development LLC, announced that a 27-story CityScape office building had reached a key construction milestone. The tower has topped out, which means that it has reached its final height of 368 feet.

The developer also revealed the names of several restaurants that will lease space in the project. They are:


• An Asian noodle shop, and a Mexican style restaurant by chef Aaron May. May has had a hand in several Valley establishments, including Sol y Sombra and Autostrada.


• A breakfast restaurant. Kyle Shivers, plans to open a second branch of his popular Scottsdale breakfast and lunch spot, The Breakfast Club.


• Blu Burger Grille, a restaurant that boasts a "unique, high quality burger experience." The business has four metro Phoenix locations.


• Press Coffee, a local coffee, food and wine shop.


• Mojo, a yogurt shop.

Two clothing stores - Scottsdale-based Designer District and fashion boutique Republic of Couture - will open locations in CityScape, RED officials said. Law firm Gus Rosenfeld has also joined the project, they added.

Other businesses have already announced plans to open CityScape shops. That includes restaurateur Sam Fox, who plans to create a Beverly Hills-style chop house, grocery store AJ's Fine Foods, CVS/Pharmacy, Urban Outfitters and Gold's Gym.

Mayor Phil Gordon praised the project.

"To see (CityScape) take shape and rise out of the ground during these challenging economic times, is particularly gratifying and is a testimony to the efforts of RED Development," the mayor said.

The recession has, however, had an impact on the project.

Under early plans, CityScape would have included 1,000 more condominiums and a second hotel. Developers decided to put that on hold because of poor economic conditions.

More than $120 million in city incentives are linked to CityScape project. Phoenix agreed to purchase the project's underground parking garage and pay for repairs to an existing parking garage at a cost of $96.5 million.

[Vicelord John]

Jahna Berry


Dumbest reporter the world has ever seen. I would never trust a word she says, not even if she was giving me kool aid directions (she's black, you'd think she would know, but she doesn't.)

[PHX_PD]

Well, I didn't get much in terms of pictures, but here's the banner they unfurled:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/IMG_7929.jpg

Did anyone else hear mayor Gordon hint that there are negotiations to lease an additional 250,000 square feet? I originally assumed that could be potential office space above Palomar, but I didn't realize that the current office tower is 618,000 sq-ft... does anyone know how much has already been leased?

[PHX31]

So, let's assume the 165 condo units and hotel are incorporated in tower 2 (correct?). 44 Monroe has 202 units. Would 500+ feet be possible? Maybe the footprint of tower 2 is smaller than 44 Monroe? The chick that HX_guy or someone was contacting at RED said tower 2 is designed for 514'.

[Vicelord John]

I've gotta think of this rationally.... if 44 monroe was completed a year ago and has sold only a handful of it's 200 units, why would I as a developer want to build 165 of my own only to sit on the market for a year or more. I don't think RED is stupid, though even in my mind they are taking some risks I wouldn't take so who knows. They may want to build 800 condos.

[Jsmscaleros]

^^^^ Right, and my thinking is that they will also fall into the same dismal "luxury condo" market. Cityscape does have a few huge advantages at the ground level, however - one of the largest being the grocery store.

I could see 44 Monroe turning around on CityScape's coat tails if this whole thing really becomes a success a couple years down the line.

[kingofleos]

I've gotta think of this rationally.... if 44 monroe was completed a year ago and has sold only a handful of it's 200 units, why would I as a developer want to build 165 of my own only to sit on the market for a year or more. I don't think RED is stupid, though even in my mind they are taking some risks I wouldn't take so who knows. They may want to build 800 condos.


Maybe they know the condos won't be selling at ridiculous prices. If they are planning to build condos, can we assume they are assured the prices won't rival beach front property like Monroe?

[PHX31]

I've gotta think of this rationally.... if 44 monroe was completed a year ago and has sold only a handful of it's 200 units, why would I as a developer want to build 165 of my own only to sit on the market for a year or more. I don't think RED is stupid, though even in my mind they are taking some risks I wouldn't take so who knows. They may want to build 800 condos.


Well, 44 Monroe started building at the peak of the boom and didn't finish until the shit had hit the fan. If CityScape begins construction now during the down times, they might get their condos to come online when things have picked up. It would be good if somehow they were able to make them more affordable. Plus, as JSM said, there is much more going on at the base of CityScape that might entice some people, especially empty nesters or laywers that may end up working in tower 1.

[HooverDam]

Well, I'll let HooverDam, or Don B., or whoever went to the CityScape thing this morning break all their news they could gather about the project... but I heard from someone who went that the following were announced:

Republic of Couture
Designer District
The Breakfast Club
Mojo (yogurt)---- This place is awesome (anyone been?). The ones on Mill and at the Biltmore shopping center are always packed.
Blu Burger Grill
AJ's
Fox Restaurants
CVS
2 Aaron May restaurants.

My buddy from Portland flew in last night and we ended up going out and then hanging out. I didnt go to sleep until about 5AM, so I was way too tired to go this morning. I do hope someone from this fine forum went though and got some pictures and info.

[andrewkfromaz]

Hoover you let us down, man!
Unforgivable.

[Vicelord John]

yeah, I'm gonna go to your show and throw beans at you. I'm not even gonna take em out of the can. I hope you can dodge aluminum

[TAZ4ate0]

yeah, I'm gonna go to your show and throw beans at you. I'm not even gonna take em out of the can. I hope you can dodge aluminum

ROFL

I may just use that as a quote in my signature. :D

[HX_Guy]

So no one that said was going to go, went? You guys are weak! :)

About the announcements, most we already knew about from previous AZCentral articles, including the restaurants and the Press Coffee...Mojo Yogurt may be a new annoucement from today, not sure.

The other two important ones (setting aside the law firm one, no one cares :) ) are good news and exactly what downtown needs. I mean we are going to go from ZERO shopping places to 3 big ones, which is pretty huge (and I don't consider anything in AZ Center as counting since it's not a downtown urban experience, it's like going to any other outdoor mall). This is of course hoping that Cityscape builds this thing to feel urban, not closed in.

Republic of Couture is in NY,IL, CO, FL, VA, TX states, but this will be their first in AZ, which is great...that's what we need, stores that aren't available elsewhere so that people will come specifically downtown for them.
The Designer District seems ok...lots of big brands at apparently reduced prices, could be good for the college crowd.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6581/myspaceimages.jpg

[Vicelord John]

seems weird that the two places could co-exist seeing as they list the same brands in their repriotoire

[HX_Guy]

Designer District probably gets the stuff that didn't sell at Republic of Couture and discounts it. :P

[HX_Guy]

So here is a complete list of tenants on board so far. It's a pretty good and diverse list...the only problem is will these places still be on board 12-18 months from now they they actually have to move in?

Food

• An Asian noodle shop by chef Aaron May
• Mexican style restaurant by chef Aaron May
• The Breakfast Club
• Blu Burger Grille
• Press Coffee
• Mojo Yogurt
• Fox Restaurants Chop House

Retail

• Republic of Couture
• Designer District
• Urban Outfitters
• AJs Fine Foods
• CVS Pharmacy

Hotel/Other

• Kimpton Hotel Palomar
• Gold's Gym

Office

• Gus Rosenfeld Law firm
• Fidelity National Title
• Squires, Sanders and Dempsey
• Ballard, Spahr, Andrews and Ingersoll
• Jennings, Strouss and Salmon

[PHX31]

Food

• An Asian noodle shop by chef Aaron May



I wish it would be an asian noodle shop or pho restaurant by some asian people that won't try to charge insane prices because they are a chef and came up with their own spin on a classic. Noddle dishes are noodle dishes. They're good and common and should be relatively inexpensive!



ps. I can't see the republic of couture lasting if it opens up. Or any of the clothing stores, actually.

[HX_Guy]

ps. I can't see the republic of couture lasting if it opens up. Or any of the clothing stores, actually.

Yea it's really going to be tough. I think it can only work if more retailers join and make the place a true destination where it won't need to depend on people within a certain radius but instead have people coming from all over the Valley. Think of Scottsdale and how many people go to that mall and to the clubs there...how many of those go there just because they live close by? Most come from all over the place and that's what downtown needs to have.

As I mentioned earlier, Republic of Couture is good because it has no other AZ location...you have to go to this one if you want to go. The Designer District? Well, people could pick the Scottsdale one or this one, and most people will probably go to Scottsdale because they are more familiar with it. What we need are more well known places that don't exist elsewhere in the Phx area...like a House of Blues or a Diesel store, maybe a Nike store that was rumored on here a little while ago.

[HX_Guy]

Leave it to the Business Journal to have a little more meat to the story, though I don't really like what I'm reading about AJs...sounds kind of shaky. One one hand they are saying they are confident that AJs in in, on the other they are saying there is a lot of uncertainty.

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/07/13/daily60.html

RED is confident that although parent company Bashas' Inc. filed for Chapter 11 reorganization earlier this week, AJ’s Fine Foods remains on board for the tower’s spring 2010 open.

“There probably is a lot of uncertainty,” said Jeff Moloznik development manager for RED Development. But for “right now it seems that that part will be in place.” The intent is for AJ’s to stay in the plan, he said.

[plinko]

From that article...ours first confirmation that the hotel will not continue construction once the garage hits grade. Thought on a positive note, it also means that they wont' cap it off, but more like put it on hold for a few months. We'll see what happens.

And yet there are still no permits in place right? They'd have to make up their mind on the program, then fully fund the Design Development and Construction Docs for the revised tower, then wait through City plan check. For a tower that large, that's a 6+ month process (at least) if they knew exactly what they wanted TODAY.

Sorry guys, you're getting another stump.

I'm curious how the lease works with Kimpton. I'm sure they have a guaranteed out after a certain date.

I wonder if RED is working with Callison on plans for the hotel tower (since it already has an operator) that could be expanded upon later (on top). I'm sure it's come up.

As far as the whole listing of tenants go, well, at least it has a grocery store and pharmacy. But the rest of it? Meh. Arizona Center once had clothing stores and even a bookstore.

So in the end, this works as a puzzle piece in downtown. A small, but important one. Maybe the best thing that can come out of this is later development of these blocks that's a bit more organic, rather than some uber plan.

I'm still fascinated by the fact that Collier isn't pitching the existing stump as a location for the W Hotel. Maybe they are just so far overextended at the moment (quite possible) that they just can't afford to build it.

[kingofleos]

Leave it to the Business Journal to have a little more meat to the story, though I don't really like what I'm reading about AJs...sounds kind of shaky. One one hand they are saying they are confident that AJs in in, on the other they are saying there is a lot of uncertainty.

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/07/13/daily60.html

Damn. They might as well say they won't be there by the time CityScape opens. Uggh, uggh, and more uggh.

[HX_Guy]

I am fully expecting a stump...but will it be a stump like Colliers, as in fully finished off, capped, and fenced off (with a nice fence at that) or will it be something temporary, with maybe a tarp over it while they work things out?

As for permits, that is correct, no permit reviews or anything related to building the tower directly. It has been mentioned in some garage revision stuff, but thats it.

Timeline wise, you have it down. If we look at the North Tower, it broke down like this:

Phased Review for Structural Frame - 02/01-08
Building Permit for Structural Frame - 07/14/09

Phased Review for Shell and Core - 03/17/08
Building Permit for Shell and Core - 08/21/08

So roughly 5 months after they start the review of the project, the building permit is issued. They haven't even gotten to that point yet on the South Tower and even if a Phased Review popped up tomorrow, it would be mid December by the time they got a permit to start construction.

[plinko]

^It's actually worse than that. They would have to be starting the plan check review of construction documents RIGHT NOW in order to be done in December. If RED doesn't know what program is going on top of their tower (office, condos, apartments, nuclear power facility), the construction documents are MONTHS away from being completed.

I'd be suprised if there is any vertical construction done on this tower before next summer.

Like I said though, if they are exploring a hotel only option that is expandable later on, then you might be something by Spring '10.

stumped!

[HooverDam]

Isn't there a way RED could be sped up through some of the permitting process considering the lack of other projects going on, and the critical size and importance of this project? I seem to recall part of the Urban Form thing was going to be streamlining the paperwork process for downtown projects, maybe thats not possible yet.

I too would like to echo concerns over the CityScape retail. I really think they need an anchor retail tenant to make it succeed. I guess theyre counting on Downtown developing into one large outdoor shopping destination, but right now its just too spread out. A few small shops in CityScape may not be able to survive on their own.

Downtown and Central city residents already have to drive long ways for things like Target, Kohls, not to mention any mid or upper tier department stores. It seems like they should've tried to land a Dillars/Macys/something as the entire Central core currently lacks that. It seems to me that people in Willo, Encanto, and the other well heeled Central neighborhoods would certainly shop there and use such a place instead of having to drive all the way to Scottsdale Fashion or the Biltmore.

[HX_Guy]

I dont think they have the space for something that large, even if it were to be 2 story, given the constraints of keeping a lot of the block as park space. Had that not been a requirement, it may have happened, but now it seems like just smaller stores that are 15,000 sq ft or less.

About the expedited permit, thats the route they went with the Sales Center and it happened much quicker, but it was also a simple one story building.

10/13/08 - Pre-application Review
10/28/08 - Large Plan Review Expedited
12/16/08 - Building Permit

[vertex]

6 new restaurants join CityScape project
Jahna Berry
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 16, 2009 09:35 AM

Six restaurants, two boutiques and a law firm will join a $900 million project that is under construction in downtown Phoenix.

Six restaurants, two boutiques and a law firm? Sound's like a typical South Scottsdale strip mall.

[Teacher_AZ_84]

I have been following CityScape for sometime. I have gone from super excited at the beginning to depressed with all the changes now :( .

I hope these places can last. I do agree that a large anchor tenant (like Target) would help increase foot traffic from local neighborhoods. I am glad to see a unique store to AZ (Republic of Couture) coming in. An H & M would draw people too even though a Scottsdale location is "supposed" to open this Fall.

[kaneui]

According to the Southwest Contractor article I linked in an earlier post, Keith Earnest of RED was quoted as saying they are currently working on financing for the Palomar and expect to begin construction before year-end, but still not sure what will be done with the "condo space." Also mentioned the PSP block won't be finished until July, 2011--two years away. (A bit of heel-dragging until the economy rebounds?)

[HX_Guy]

Seems like a lot of uncertainties...

Will a bank give them financing without a solid decision on what it's going to finance? Or are they trying to sell both concepts to the banks...hotel/condos + hotel/office?

Can they get building permits without the decision of whats going above the hotel? I assume, and Plinko can chime in here, that even the design of the hotel itself will differ depending on whats above it...maybe not aesthetically, but the columns as such...or would those be the same regardless? I know floor to floor heights would be different.

[PhxPavilion]

I think a hotel is a given, my belief is that Red is fully aware that retailers and restaurateurs are not going to want to go to a place that just has one plain Jane office tower. It was all of it that sold the space initially: office, hotel and residential. Two of the residential and hotel towers are already a definite no go so you have the remaining two to keep them there. I think Red is just dragging their feet to get a feel for where the country is headed in the next couple years, if they think the shits going to hit the fan than a few restaurants leaving won't matter but if things start to improve than it will be full steam ahead.

You have to remember, Red is the only one left on what once was a multi-party project. Everyone else bailed.

[HX_Guy]

I think a hotel is a given, my belief is that Red is fully aware that retailers and restaurateurs are not going to want to go to a place that just has one plain Jane office tower. It was all of it that sold the space initially: office, hotel and residential.

Yes but don't you think Colliers sold their project in the exact same way...well, minus the residential. But they promised 3 office towers and 1 hotel toward, and all that it ended up being was one plain Jane office tower.

Granted that residential would really really make sense with the amenities they have and the attention this project is getting...it would almost be prestigious to say you live at Cityscape. Its pretty clear that Cityscape is doing better by leaps and bounds over other projects like Central Park East, who is all done and has yet to announce any tenants. I think the residential units would have similar success with the grocery store, pharmacy, gym, retail and restaurants all beneath you. What do the other new condo projects downtown offer? A clubhouse?

[plinko]

Seems like a lot of uncertainties...

Will a bank give them financing without a solid decision on what it's going to finance? Or are they trying to sell both concepts to the banks...hotel/condos + hotel/office?

Can they get building permits without the decision of whats going above the hotel? I assume, and Plinko can chime in here, that even the design of the hotel itself will differ depending on whats above it...maybe not aesthetically, but the columns as such...or would those be the same regardless? I know floor to floor heights would be different.

The problem I see is that Tower 2 was always designed to be condos above the hotel. A condo tower has very similar bay spacing and structural characteristics to the hotel. An office tower on the other hand does not. Office towers require much larger column-free spans which create a need for much larger columns to hold those spans. Those loads carry down through the columns of the hotel tower, which would then also need to be larger.

If they redesign the whole tower (including the hotel portion) to account for office, then they can build whichever eventual configuration above that they would want. The floor loading is fairly similar per the code.

In ANY case, they aren't going anywhere vertical unless they pull some permits. And if they are serious about going office, there's a pretty substantial structural redesign that has to happen (although it sounds like they may have started that process based on the structural permit revision they pulled for the garage core area that HX mentioned awhile ago).

I'm just terribly disappointed that Phoenix could end up with yet another stump along Jefferson.

[HX_Guy]

One thing I just cause that I missed earlier in that Southwest Contract article, Keith Earnest (VP of RED) said that they might turn all the previous condo space into hotel...so the whole tower could be hotel, that would be interesting. Or they could mix in more hotel rooms and less condos, so instead of the 165/250 plan earlier, maybe it could be 100 condos / 310 hotel rooms. Its all up in the air now though but seems like they are trying all sorts of possibilities.

[TAZ4ate0]

I'm just terribly disappointed that Phoenix could end up with yet another stump along Jefferson.

All of your points taken. But with due respect, I'll bank money that tower 2 will not be capped. How tall it will be however, is anyones guess.

[PhxPavilion]

One thing I just cause that I missed earlier in that Southwest Contract article, Keith Earnest (VP of RED) said that they might turn all the previous condo space into hotel...so the whole tower could be hotel, that would be interesting. Or they could mix in more hotel rooms and less condos, so instead of the 165/250 plan earlier, maybe it could be 100 condos / 310 hotel rooms. Its all up in the air now though but seems like they are trying all sorts of possibilities.

Condo is fairly easy to convert to hotel and vice versa, they could still design it to be condo and later convert the space to all hotel if they don't get enough buyers.

[Don B.]

I didn't make it this morning. I had other fish to fry...

As for Tower II, ain't no way in hell they are going to be building anything over 20 stories in that spot, in this market in this economy. We'd be lucky to get 20 stories and not just a stump at this point.

There are 7 hotel properties in the Phoenix metro area in foreclosure right now, and the wave of big commercial foreclosures hasn't even hit us yet.

--don

[Vicelord John]

the best I could do standing in the middle of washington...

I did not notice there are some neon lights changing colors which are very very similar to the light bars in jellyfish park, you can see it in the picture ... hmmmm

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_0054.jpg

[plinko]

Nice shot. Almost looks like a negative daytime photo.

[HX_Guy]

So some bad news, though not unexpected...and a little bit of good news, maybe.

Talked to someone at the site and they confirmed that the elevator core for the South Tower is stopping construction. It will not go any higher then street level (where it is now) for the moment. They will build the garage to street level and then they expect RED to "announce something" as he said.

I did ask when the tower cranes are coming down and he said the one for the office building in about 6 weeks while the other two "will be up until the second tower is done, about a year and a half".

[plinko]

^well, if they are planning to continue to pay for the cranes to be there, that's at least promising...

[renone]

I did ask when the tower cranes are coming down and he said the one for the office building in about 6 weeks while the other two "will be up until the second tower is done, about a year and a half".

Hmmm. Does this mean they intend to keep Central closed for another 18 months? I thought the plan was to re-open Central as soon as possible. Obviously, they can't do that with the tower crane in the middle of the street.

[HX_Guy]

Hmmm. Does this mean they intend to keep Central closed for another 18 months? I thought the plan was to re-open Central as soon as possible. Obviously, they can't do that with the tower crane in the middle of the street.

Yea, I don't know. The Coppersquare.com website says that Central will be closed "thru 2010".
It is positive news if the guy I spoke with didn't know of any plans to bring the cranes down. I think that RED has no intention at capping the second tower off, but it sounds like they are still looking for financing at this point so it's not completely under their control of what happens to it.