Hamilton Street Railway Route ideas.

[miketoronto]

Here are my ideas for making Hamilton Street Railway more attractive to commuters. What do you guys think of my new route ideas to speed up service and attract choice riders????? Right now HSR suffers from only having a ridership that is about 20% Choice. Meaning the other 80% are captive. I would like to turn that around :)

----

ROUTE 55E: STONEY CREEK EXPRESS
Buses would run local from Stoney Creek City Hall to Eastgate Square. Then EXPRESS to Downtown Hamilton and McMaster University. Making no stops inbetween.

ROUTE 2E: BARTON EXPRESS
Buses would run local from Stoney Creek City Hall to Centennial Parkway. Then run express to Downtown Hamilton and McMaster University, with a stop at Hamilton General Hospital.

ROUTE 43E: MOUNTAIN EAST EXPRESS
Buses rould run their normal local routing through the subdivision at the end of the route east of Winterberry Drive. Buses would then enter the Lincoln Expressway and run express to Limeridge Mall. Buses would then run express from Limeridge Mall to Downtown Hamilton, stopping inroute at Mohawk Road, Fennell Ave, Queensdale Ave, and Concession Road.

ROUTE 102: LIMERIDGE-MCMASTER EXPRESS
Buses would run EXPRESS from Limridge Mall to McMaster University via the Lincoln Expressway.

ROUTE 52E: DUNDAS EXPRESS
Buses would run their local routing from Dundas to McMaster University. Then run EXPRESS to Downtown Hamilton.

ROUTE 16E: ANCASTER EXPRESS
Buses would run their normal local routing in Ancaster, then run EXPRESS to Downtown Hamilton via area highways, after serving MEADOWLANDS.

ROUTE 103E: EASTGATE-MOHAWK EXPRESS
Buses would run express from Eastgate Square to Mohawk College, stopping only at Limridge Mall. Buses would use area highways.

[DC83]

How about "Shoppers Express"?? Route 99!

Starting downtown, go express along Main down Ottawa to the New Centre;
Back up Ottawa to Main, express to Eastgate;
Up Centennial, express to Summit Park Shopping area (Hwy-53 / Hwy-20);
Express to Limeridge via The Linc;
Back onto the Linc, express to Meadowlands;
Down the Ancaster Hill (Hwy-403) to Mac;
Back downtown K/J via Main.

[SteelTown]

A couple of the route you have Mike are already being planned part of the new BRT routes such as Route 55E and almost Route 43E.

One BRT route will replace the current Beeline buses which goes from Eastgate Square to McMaster. A few stops along the way.

Another BRT route will go along the Lincoln Alexandar Expressway and making two stops at Limeridge Mall and Upper James.

The other BRT route will go from James Street from the waterfront all the way up to eventually Hamilton Airport on Upper James.

Route 102 could work but currently people who work or a student at McMaster can park at Meadowlands and take a shuttle bus to McMaster so you could change Route 102 from Meadowlands to McMaster instead.

I dunno if Route 103 would work since a lot of Mohawk students drive and currently Mohawk students don't have a special free HSR pass like McMaster. So not a lot of students use the buses at Mohawk. But i think eventually soon Mohawk will be getting a special HSR pass. Just the students have to vote on the issue, I think the vote last time a majority said no to HSR pass.

[MikeTTG]

Isn't it a requirement that at least one express route have a stop in front of mikescarborogh's suburban abode? Or does that only apply to the TTC?

[Doady]

What's with all the express routes? Hamilton does not need that many.

[SteelTown]

The solid red line is where the BRT will be running, 2 East-West BRT routes (one for Lower Hamilton and one for Hamilton Mountain) and 1 North-South BRT route.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Aallen396/BRTcorridor.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Aallen396/UpperJames.jpg

[DC83]

That looks awesome - and is definately needed for upper james. Plus the streetscaping would make it more "Hamilton" and not so "Mississauga". Maybe people would actually walk along the street without being afraid of being hit by cars zooming by like they do now :s

And the green dotted line... does that suggest that GO will be heading towards Brantford / K-W??
I knew about Niagara expansion but never heard of anything about going towards the Kitchener-Waterloo area?

[raisethehammer]

you're right...the Upper James idea does like awesome. Problem is, most people who live in that area have this strange notion that 'Mississuaga' is better than 'Hamilton'.
They would fight it tooth and nail. Anything that might slow down their almighty cars will simply not fly with Mountain residents.
That said, it's a no-brainer and with public input should go ahead whether some car-addicted honks like it not. but this is Hamilton and that would require actual leadership.
It'll never happen. They'd be better trying to do something like that along Centennial Parkway or Main West from 403 to Dundas. Unless public money is spent on highways and more asphalt for cars mountain residents consider it to be a waste and a 'subsidy'. Perhaps someday they'll come to realize that the biggest subsidized area in all of Hamilton is the burbs and it's massive, multi-lane roads and highways.

I love the BRT plans....I don't think we need a 'shoppers BRT'. Who is going to go from mall to mall to mall?? BRT should be along mixed use nodes...high dense population with shops, services, parks, offices etc.....diverse uses will make it successful.

[SteelTown]

Creating a BRT median will largely depend on how much the feds and province is willing to spend. Mayor Katz of Winnipeg returned $17 million to the feds and the province, he's against the BRT.

So Hamilton might get $34 million towards the BRT. Three way funding that would be $51 million which I think is the price tag the Steering Committee wanted.

If the funding is around that amount than a median along Upper James is looking brighter. But be prepared for complaints, the biggest complaint I heard during the open house was how are cars going to turn into the stores or the movie theatre if the turning median is gone.

[flar]

What's with all the express routes? Hamilton does not need that many.


Hamilton does need these. There are a lot of people without cars in Hamilton, and it takes a long time to get around. My bus route (#5 from Dundas to Stoney Creek) takes an hour and 20 minutes end to end. That's nearly a three hour round trip. The last time I was on the only existing express route (the Beeline) the bus passed by around 100 people because it was full (I'm not exaggerating, there were three stops passed over, each with enough people to fill a bus).

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

Hamilton does need these. There are a lot of people without cars in Hamilton, and it takes a long time to get around. My bus route (#5 from Dundas to Stoney Creek) takes an hour and 20 minutes end to end. That's nearly a three hour round trip. The last time I was on the only existing express route (the Beeline) the bus passed by around 100 people because it was full (I'm not exaggerating, there were three stops passed over, each with enough people to fill a bus).

That's why if you make some of these routes BEELINE Express just like they have on Main street you would be able to get to Stoney Creek from Dundas in half that time.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

The one area I'd like to see the H.S.R. (Hamilton Street Railway) somehow remedy is if I'm at the east end of Hamilton; say around Eastgate Square and I need to get to the East Mountain around where Upper Ottawa and Rymal is they don't really have a route that takes me DIRRECTLY from East Hamilton to the East Mountain....If I'm at Eastgate Square and need to get to Upper Gage and Rymal road, as it stands now I need to Circle the entire City to get to East Mountain.....for example: At Eastgate Square I take the King Bus to get downtown...when I get downtown at Gore Park I transfer over to the Upper Gage Bus and that bus then goes up the mountain and travels east along Concession street and then finally makes the turn on Upper Gage...by the time I get to my destination almost 2-hours that have elapsed...I've tried this already more than once and timed it each time...2-hours is the average; this includes having to wait for the King Bus at Eastgate and waiting for the other at Gore Park.....Now for a Bus to go up Highway 20 is a bad idea cause that stretch of the road is very bad for accidents; Highway 20 has a very bad track record for that sort of stuff....so what is the solution then?....I think when Steeltown posted up the idea of the Incline Railway couple of weeks back that would be the solution for that part of the City for pedestrians from East Hamilton wanting to get to the east Mountain in the shortest amount of time....they use an Incline Railway at East Hamilton and transfer from there to a Bus on the Mountain.....I'm assuming here that the Incline Railway(s) would be run by H.S.R.

[raisethehammer]

A new route is starting up next year...#59. it will run from Eastgate Sq to the southeast mountain area - Hwy 53&20 and then I think it comes west into the 'heritage green' neighbourhood. So that should help you Boomtown.

With median transit like this the signal lights are set up at intersections with a long left turn sequnence that allows people to make U-turns. Then it's easy for someone who's coming off the Linc to get to the theatre. U-turn at Rymal and you're in. Also, people need to be a little wiser with their trip planning. Back when I lived on the Mountain I was amazed at how people would cross Upper James IN THEIR CARS from one parking lot to another. now people might actually have to plan and hit the stores on the east side at once, then the west side. Sure it might be a little less convenient for cars, but that's the point. It will be MORE convenient for transit riders. The BRT stops at that street halfway between Ryman and Stonechurch and the folks get off and walk to the theatre. That is the only way any city can get people out of cars and into transit. No parking hassles, lineups, traffic jams etc.....
We'll have to see if city hall has the leadership and vision to make it happen despite the cries from some car-addicted folks.

[SteelTown]

Move towards a bus rapid transit system
October 20, 2006

A small step towards a Hamilton bus rapid transit cleared the public works committee this week when councillors accepted a recommendation from the transit master plan steering committee to move the city's only express bus to an all-day service next year.

The popular Beeline express bus operates between McMaster University and Eastgate Mall with some extensions into lower Stoney Creek. The 33-minute ride compares favourably with driving speeds, but the service is currently only provided during morning and afternoon rush hours on weekdays.

Under the proposal adopted on Monday, the every-ten-minute service will be extended through the mid-day period and into the evening – running continuously from 6 am to 9:30 pm. The transit committee selected this improvement over an option to moving the service to every 7.5 minutes during the rush hour periods.

The McMaster-Eastgate corridor is the most heavily used in the HSR system, with demand exceeding capacity by at least 50 percent for much of the day – resulting in overcrowding and numerous times when passengers are forced to wait for later buses, despite the addition last year of three new buses serving the university.

The newest changes follow a city decision last month to buy bigger buses for the corridor – replacing some of the standard 40-foot vehicles with 60-foot articulated (bend-in-the-middle) buses. Those new vehicles will also arrive in 2007 and will have a distinctive paint job as an initial step to developing a bus rapid transit (BRT) system that would feature faster transit along major city roadways.

The Beeline was set up in 1989 and was expected to be followed by other express bus services. Instead, service cuts and fare hikes slashed transit use in the 1990s, dropping annual rides to below 20 million from a near 30 million level in 1985. The slide has been slowly reversed in recent years, but Hamilton's transit growth still lags far behind other major Canadian systems that are registering growth rates exceeding three percent a year.

Bus rapid transit is being widely adopted in North America as a lower-cost alternative to subway and other rail transit services. A Hamilton BRT is a central recommendation of the city's draft Transportation Master Plan developed by IBI consultants and unveiled in two mountain open houses last month.

Brian Hollingsworth of IBI told the transit committee earlier this month that the preferred solution “really hinges on aggressive transit expansion”. In addition to the McMaster-Eastgate corridor with potential extension all the way to Winona, the proposals call for establishment of a north-south express service from the waterfront to north of Rymal Road using James and Upper James. An east-west mountain route is also under consideration, with current thinking favouring a bus corridor along the Lincoln Alexander Parkway .

“Transit is only going to work if the city gets serious about compact mixed-use development around transit nodes and corridors,” Hollingsworth told the committee. Pointing to the city's commitment to the Red Hill Creek Expressway, he said “I think if the city put those sorts of efforts into the BRT network, it would result in something fantastic.”

The recommended changes to the Beeline service are subject to a final decision at city council on the 27th of this month. Then the new city council which will get the final say on whether the costs can be covered within next year's budget.

Funding for the Beeline changes, and several others recommended by the transit committee, would at least partially be drawn from gas tax revenues that have been made available to the city by the provincial and federal governments for the specific purpose of improving public transit.

[Doady]

Hamilton does need these. There are a lot of people without cars in Hamilton, and it takes a long time to get around. My bus route (#5 from Dundas to Stoney Creek) takes an hour and 20 minutes end to end. That's nearly a three hour round trip. The last time I was on the only existing express route (the Beeline) the bus passed by around 100 people because it was full (I'm not exaggerating, there were three stops passed over, each with enough people to fill a bus).


Hamilton is a small city, it does not need so many express routes as Miketoronto proposes. If the buses are too slow then it is due to congestion and overcrowding and a simple matter of adding bus lanes and more buses to existing routes.

[matt602]

It is definitely NOT due to congestion. It is very rare that you'll run into a traffic jam in Hamilton, unless it is rush hour.

[miketoronto]

Hamilton is a small city, it does not need so many express routes as Miketoronto proposes. If the buses are too slow then it is due to congestion and overcrowding and a simple matter of adding bus lanes and more buses to existing routes.

Hamilton does need them. Hamilton covers a pretty large land area, and if you don't provide speedy transit, then people will just continue to use their cars. The stats already point to this.

80% of HSR riders are capitive. Meaning they have no choice but to ride HSR and are not choosing it by choice.

Smaller cities like St John are looking into providing express bus routes for commuters. If a small city of 75,000 can do it, then I think Hamilton can and should.

If transit does not compete with the car, it will never carry anyone but the poor.

[raisethehammer]

I agree with the need for more express buses and bus-only lanes, BRT etc.... however, I don't see the need for an express service that only goes from one shopping area to another....they need to service a wide range of areas - shopping, residential, office, business parks, industrial, waterfront, tourism, transportation links - GO, VIA, airport, harbour etc......

[Doady]

The main reason for any express route is because the ridership of a regular bus route is so high that the buses become really overcrowded and slow and the route is able to support additional service in the first place.

Throwing express routes all over the place is pointless. Just look at empty VIVA buses in York Region: a waste of money.

[SteelTown]

Beeline, King and University all go from the east to McMaster and all are overcrowded. When I first started working at McMaster I took the bus to Gore Park and every single time I tried to get on a bus to McMaster it was always full and drives right on by without even stopping at the downtown stop, pretty bad when you can't pick up a load of people when you are at the main downtown transit stop. Eventually I got sick of it and now I drive to work and take a shuttle bus to McMaster from the parking lot.

Upper James is crowded too which will have its own BRT line.

[miketoronto]

I think you guys where talking about my
route 103E: EASTGATE-MOHAWK EXPRESS as the bus connecting malls :)

The reason I did that, is because the malls act like major transit centres. It has nothing to do with them being malls. But more with them being transit centres, and also big destinations in their own right.


Doady sometimes you need to provide improved service such as express buses to get people onto transit. If you just leave every bus as a local bus running down local roads, then you are not going to attract people of choice, if they can drive faster.

Transit also has to rise to the challenge to provide improved service.

That is why cities like Hamilton have seen their ridership stagnate. Because the only people taking transit are the ones who have no other choice.

Somthing to think about. My co-worker can drive from her house in Stoney Creek to Bay and Front Street to our office, in about 40min.
You can't even get to McMaster in that amount of time by HSR and its the same city.

[realcity]

HSR does not provide an alternative to car use, as transit should. It is only an option for people without a car, so the stereotype in Hamilton persists. You only ride the HSR is you're too poor to afford a car. The opposite is true in TO, were business people in expensive suits use the subway and the poor suckers who have to drive into TO because they are too poor to afford city living. Speaking of TTC and HSR, the TTC is responsible to the many nodes and clusters of CBDs and retail, giving a viability to the many neighbourhoods. With a transit leading to Union the biggest cluster of them all. In Hamilton that should be Gore Park or wherever that hub is relocated to. With mini clusters in Westdale, U James, Concession, Locke, Eastgate, Limeridge, Dundas, Ottawa, Harbourfront, Beach Strip, etc. Then we'll have a viable alternative and some people may actually choose transit over car use.

I work 8 km from my home a 10 minute car trip, for me to take the bus I might as well commute to downtown TO. I would need to take 3 busses how ridiculous is that? Upper Paradise which runs every 20 minutes (ridiculuously long) to Mohawk to Upper Sherman, 8 kms would take over an hour. Get real HSR, the whole system needs to be rethought. Unfortunately there is no political will, because when any politician mentions HSR most voters would rather not even have it, because it slows down their car. Hamilton is getting worse, drivers are not expecting pedestrians. Even when there is a pedestrian at a cross walk they drive right up to you, give no indication they see you or are slowing down and look aggravated if they make eye-contact. I always try to make eye-contact with a driver, it lets me know they fuckn see me. Then more often then not, the driver is shaking his head at me. Hamilton is a fucked up city.

[raisethehammer]

can't compare York region's VIVA to hamilton's need for BRT. Most major routes than run through Hamilton are jammed. BRT will be a very welcomed, and well-used improvement.
Transit on the Mountain is pretty bad as Realcity said, but that's more due to the way in which is was developed as car dependant sprawl. I live downtown and am a 10-15 minute car drive from my office. On bus it takes about 15-20, by bike it takes about 10-15. I have great options and choose the bike and bus 80% of the time because it is heathier, more enjoyable, cheaper and adds to the feeling of 'connecting' with my city neighbourhoods, not just screaming through them in a car.
It's a different world up on the Mountain, unless you live along the Concession St corridor which has fabulous service both to the lower city and Mountain areas. Sprawl is the problem, whether it's in Ancaster or the 'old' city of Hamilton.

[SteelTown]

What the HSR needs to do is provide discount bus passes to companies that wish to join. I know HSR will give discounts to Hamilton Health Sciences employees, the deal is you have to give up your parking pass and HHS will help cover the cost. They should really think about adding McMaster University employees to the deal. McMaster is out of parking space so this deal would help.

They also need to get Mohawk College a bus pass like McMaster, it's not free paid under student fees but totally cheap $60 for a year.

Doing that will really help ridership increase and force the city to adjust some changes to how the HSR operates.

[raisethehammer]

I thought Mohawk students do have one already....Columbia College students do.

[miketoronto]

The HSR system works great if you are going downtown. If you look at a route map, almost all the routes from the mountain lead to downtown Hamilton. But it does not work good for people going to McMaster and other areas of the city, unless they are in the lower city already.

And even the local service could be faster to get people downtown.

There is no doubt a stronger more faster transit system could help downtown Hamilton out alot.

Hamilton is about the same size as Ottawa(talking city, not metro area). Yet HSR only carries 65,000 riders a day, compared to Ottawa's 350,000 riders.

Now there are different dynamics in Ottawa like larger downtown, etc.

But the point is Hamilton should have way more then 65,000 riders a day. Hell even 150,000 would be good, which is about the same as Mississauga.

[SteelTown]

I thought Mohawk students do have one already....Columbia College students do.

If they did I'd be the first to grab the bus pass.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

A new route is starting up next year...#59. it will run from Eastgate Sq to the southeast mountain area - Hwy 53&20 and then I think it comes west into the 'heritage green' neighbourhood. So that should help you Boomtown.

With median transit like this the signal lights are set up at intersections with a long left turn sequnence that allows people to make U-turns. Then it's easy for someone who's coming off the Linc to get to the theatre. U-turn at Rymal and you're in. Also, people need to be a little wiser with their trip planning. Back when I lived on the Mountain I was amazed at how people would cross Upper James IN THEIR CARS from one parking lot to another. now people might actually have to plan and hit the stores on the east side at once, then the west side. Sure it might be a little less convenient for cars, but that's the point. It will be MORE convenient for transit riders. The BRT stops at that street halfway between Ryman and Stonechurch and the folks get off and walk to the theatre. That is the only way any city can get people out of cars and into transit. No parking hassles, lineups, traffic jams etc.....
We'll have to see if city hall has the leadership and vision to make it happen despite the cries from some car-addicted folks.

raisethehammer.......

Route #59?....that's great news....long overdue....will this bus be travelling up along Highway #20?

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

It is definitely NOT due to congestion. It is very rare that you'll run into a traffic jam in Hamilton, unless it is rush hour.

It's rare to see traffic jams in Hamilton due to the number of One-way streets we have in the City HOWEVER lately the City has been transforming the one-way streets into two-way routes and this I find is starting to congest the traffic especially in the downtown core.....not too sure what the City here is thinking by changing the one-way streets into two-way routes???

[raisethehammer]

two-way streets are better for pedestrians, cyclists AND yes, a little bit of slower car traffic is acceptable, especially once we have BRT with it's own lanes never getting slowed in traffic. It'll be a good way to draw new transit users.

As for route #59, yes it will use Hwy 20. I don't know exactly where it will go up top, but i know it goes to heritage green neighbourhood and Hwy 20 &53 intersection.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

How exactly are the two-way streets better for pedestrians?...I hear it all the time with no real explanation of it....last time I checked, cars use roads and pedestrians use sidewalks.......

Highway #20 bad stretch of highway with terrible track record of accidents...those buses will have to be flying down that hill and they have no seat belts inside those city buses.

[raisethehammer]

First, 2-way streets slow traffic and make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience...walk from Dundurn Castle to Copps along York and tell me how enjoyable the walk is.
Then walk from LIUNA Station to Jackson Sq and compare the difference.

Second, Hwy 20/Centennial has intentionally been ignored for decades as part of the attempt to convince residents that we needed Red Hill. Once Red Hill opens 2 things need to happen - a) trucks should be banned from Centennial and b) Centennial needs to be fixed up for the first time in half a century. Add wide sidewalks, trees, transit stops etc..... right now it's a mess...an intentional mess.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

First, 2-way streets slow traffic and make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience...walk from Dundurn Castle to Copps along York and tell me how enjoyable the walk is.
Then walk from LIUNA Station to Jackson Sq and compare the difference.

Second, Hwy 20/Centennial has intentionally been ignored for decades as part of the attempt to convince residents that we needed Red Hill. Once Red Hill opens 2 things need to happen - a) trucks should be banned from Centennial and b) Centennial needs to be fixed up for the first time in half a century. Add wide sidewalks, trees, transit stops etc..... right now it's a mess...an intentional mess.

I'm from West Hamilton so I am very familiar with the walks along those two streets you listed here for us and even when James street use to be a one way street I always enjoyed walking through it....maybe it's just me but as a pedestrian doesn't make a difference for me personally whether James street is one way or two way but sure makes a difference when I'm inside my car trying ro get around the downtown core.........

I agree with you about banning the trucks from Centennial....I would also like to see them banned from our downtown core....getting really tired of seeing noisy trucks drive by Hamilton Place and City hall downtown.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

First, 2-way streets slow traffic and make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience...walk from Dundurn Castle to Copps along York and tell me how enjoyable the walk is.
Then walk from LIUNA Station to Jackson Sq and compare the difference.

Second, Hwy 20/Centennial has intentionally been ignored for decades as part of the attempt to convince residents that we needed Red Hill. Once Red Hill opens 2 things need to happen - a) trucks should be banned from Centennial and b) Centennial needs to be fixed up for the first time in half a century. Add wide sidewalks, trees, transit stops etc..... right now it's a mess...an intentional mess.

I've gone over what you had to say regarding the two way streets and after some deep thoughts on it I'd have to say that I agree with you regarding the 2-way streets that make for a more enjoyable pedestrian experience.

Thanks R.M. :D

[raisethehammer]

ha ha..that's funny. You were deep in thought eh??
I suppose one-way streets like King William and Hess work too...but good luck in getting Main or King turned into streets like that.

[Boomtown_Hamilton]

..........You should be the Mayor. :D

[SteelTown]

One-way streets like King William and Hess work because they have a maximum of just one or two lanes.

Main St I think will always be a one way street. I say that because it would cost millions to change the 403 exit ramps to adjust the new two way street, that’s why King St West will only change to two way from James to Queen(personally I think they should go further to Dundurn). I feel there's nothing wrong with having one way streets but the problem is you need to slow cars down and have at least a maximum of 3 lanes just like Bay Street.

The city can work to reduce Main St down to 3 lanes and have bus only lane and make bigger sidewalks which would really help the Esplanade BIA pedestrian experience.

I just wish to god the city would look at making Queen St completely two way. It would be so easy to change.

I travel down Beckett Drive every morning and forced to turn on Aberdeen St to Dundurn and towards Westdale on King. Would be a hell of a lot better if I could keep staying on Queen turn on King and towards Westdale. Plus I LOVE Queen St it's one of my favourite area.

[The Drizzler]

main st is brutal. it's like taking a stroll along the QEW. lane reduction is a definite must. getting back to the hsr, my complaint was always the frequency of buses. god help you if you miss your bus 'cause there won't be another one along for a while. you end up being late for work, school or whatever. i used to take the bus from gore to the east mountain quite often and it never ceased to amaze me how often the driver would stop the bus and head to the nearest tim hortons. 5 minutes later we'd be on our way again. after years of trying to be a good urban citizen i gave up and bought a car. in ottawa, this is not necessary. if you miss your bus there'll be another one along in 2-3 minutes. it's not perfect but it's close. if hamilton is serious about public transit then maybe the province and ottawa will start to take notice. the feds are close to handing over $300M to the city of ottawa for a major light rail project. it kind of pisses me off 'cause i can't imagine that ever happening in hamilton but we all understand the advantages that ottawa has. also, ottawa is serious about transit, so it can be rationalized. anyway, i'm rambling. long live public transit!!

[realcity]

Boomtown read James Howard Kunstler's The City in Mind, and Home from Nowhere. The problem with Two-way streets and many things in Hamilton will become clear. not that you don't know this, just it will give you more understanding and a vocabulary to express it better.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0684845911.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.uwex.edu/ces/cced/readingroom/images/bookcovers/nowhere.jpg

[raisethehammer]

frig...I should get those and read them. they sound intriguing.

[BCTed]

two-way streets are better for pedestrians, cyclists AND yes, a little bit of slower car traffic is acceptable, especially once we have BRT with it's own lanes never getting slowed in traffic. It'll be a good way to draw new transit users.


So you want to stimulate transit traffic by sabotaging automobile traffic?

[miketoronto]

What is the big deal if it takes you guys 2min to zoom through downtown instead of 1 min????????

Maybe slowing the traffic a little will let people see the offerings in the city and actually maybe stop. If you want a freeway go on one. You don't need downtown streets to act like a freeway so people can get out of the city as fast as they can.

[raisethehammer]

I wouldn't consider calming Hamilton's 5-lane freeways tearing through residential neighbourhoods to be 'sabotaging traffic'.
The only thing being sabotaged in this city is the quality of life and business climate of residents and business-owners in the downtown/urban city. Like Mike said, if you want a freeway, go drive on one. don't friggin ruin my neighbourhood and run innocent people over just to shave 2 minutes off the trip to work.

[BCTed]

What is the big deal if it takes you guys 2min to zoom through downtown instead of 1 min????????

Maybe slowing the traffic a little will let people see the offerings in the city and actually maybe stop.

This is a very big maybe. If the offerings in downtown Hamilton are truly worth checking out, then people will visit them regardless of whether the streets are uni- or bi-directional. I certainly hope that none of these businesses place much dependence upon passing motorists to visit them based on chance sightings at a red light.


If you want a freeway go on one. You don't need downtown streets to act like a freeway so people can get out of the city as fast as they can.

You sound as if you want to trap people into a confined space. If it becomes more difficult to get out of a certain area, then chances are that it will also become more difficult to enter that area. If there is a reason to be downtown, then people will find their way there and stay there.

I wouldn't consider calming Hamilton's 5-lane freeways tearing through residential neighbourhoods to be 'sabotaging traffic'.
The only thing being sabotaged in this city is the quality of life and business climate of residents and business-owners in the downtown/urban city. Like Mike said, if you want a freeway, go drive on one. don't friggin ruin my neighbourhood and run innocent people over just to shave 2 minutes off the trip to work.

raisethehammer, I have read your last few posts and you seem to strictly speak in absolutes rather than in relative terms, and you seem to do so in a somewhat hostile manner. Please recognize that there is always more than one side to every story and that you can attract more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

The "freeways" that you speak of very likely do not have 100 km/hr speed limits and very likely have traffic lights that are timed for flow at 50 km/hr. If somebody is driving at an excessive speed, then that person is likely to hit a red light sooner rather than later.

On the related topic of safety, I have never run an innocent person over and do not ever plan to do so --- but would I be more or less likely to do so under a two-way system rather than a one-way system? I do not know for certain, and I would bet my bottom dollar that you do not either. On the whole, there is a strong general case to be made that one-way streets are safer for both motorists and pedestrians than are two-way streets.

Efficient flow of traffic should be of interest to everyone. Creation of artificial congestion for the sake of congestion should be of interest to no one.

[the dude]

The "freeways" that you speak of very likely do not have 100 km/hr speed limits and very likely have traffic lights that are timed for flow at 50 km/hr. If somebody is driving at an excessive speed, then that person is likely to hit a red light sooner rather than later.

you have to know hamilton, bcted. for example, main st is, for all intents and purposes, a freeway. it's a 5-lane, one-way street with synchronized traffic lights that runs right through downtown. its speed limit is 60km/h but people cruise along a lot faster than that. it's dangerous and unpleasant and people have been killed in auto accidents in recent months. it's not good for pedestrians or downtown businesses.

[the dude]

i think we've degenerated from the original topic of this thread: HSR routes. BRT is great and i hope the city seriously pursues it. that said, if the city's truly committed to public transit then LRT should be on the docket. having more buses and providing better service would certainly increase ridership and possibly reduce congestion. on the other hand, having LRT could potentially increase ridership exponentially. the reality is that people aren't turned on by buses. studies have shown that people are far more likely to use LRT if available rather than bus service. i think BRT should be a first step towards LRT. naturally, the drawback to LRT is the cost. ottawa's proposed LRT project is slated to cost somewhere between $800 million and $1 billion. that's not chump change. the feds and province will be contributing $400 million of that cost, though. anyway, i thought i might mention LRT as a viable, realistic solution to our public transit woes.

[realcity]

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/delta/00073.jpg

this is on King Street. The westbound thruway. Main street is the east bound thruway.

[realcity]

The problem with the argument about efficient traffic movement is it's never efficient enough? At what point do we balance, transit, cyclists and pedestrians with car traffic efficacy?

Read about London England's recent traffic changes to the city. Everyone said any hinderance to automobile traffic would be a disaster. I proved to be wrong, and the city and residents are better off now.

[raisethehammer]

the above photo of flowers on a street pole is from an accident scene 2 weeks ago where a 21 year old was sliced in half by a speeding car, steps from his apartment.
I've seen accidents on Locke St and on Queen West in Toronto and believe me, nobody ever has the chance to even go fast enough to slice someone in half. Usually not even fast enough to cause major damage. Lights timed at 60km allow people to reach speeds of 120+ for several blocks before hitting a red.
And if you know Hamilton, you'll know that there are huge stretches like between Catherine and Wellington with no lights.
If I sound hostile, I apologize. I have no use for allowing suburban 'through' traffic to ruin the quality of life and businesses in my city centre.
Businesses don't rely on people stopping at red lights. They rely on people on the sidewalks. People aren't on the sidewalks when they can't hear themselves think. I know in our society people like me are such lunctic outcasts because I haven't sold the farm to Ford and Imperial Oil ,but hey, that's life. I live downtown. I walk downtown. I bike downtown. I'm raising a family downtown. 70% of vehicles in downtown Hamilton are 'cut-through' vehicles...coming from the far east end to west end or vice versa. I have no desire to see my local streets used as highways for them when our city is surrounded by highways. If that 70% of cars never came downtonw again I'd be the happiest guy alive and our city would have a fighting chance at reving back to life. Forgive me for caring about my city's economy and prosperity.

[SteelTown]

We gotta get more pressure to calm traffic down along Main St. I know the mother of the son who got killed recently wanted to set out a petition maybe RTH can help and get people to sign it up to force the city to do something about Main St.

Now is the time to act. Perhaps set our own petition to City Hall. You said about 7,000 checked RTH website so that could really help.

[miketoronto]

Read about London England's recent traffic changes to the city. Everyone said any hinderance to automobile traffic would be a disaster. I proved to be wrong, and the city and residents are better off now.

London is a unique case. Sadly trying to apply that to Hamilton, Toronto or another Canadian city, would not be good.

In London before the congestion charge went into place, something like 80% of people commuting into central London took public transit. Car drivers are actually the minority in London, eventhough all they do is yell about traffic.

In Hamilton, Toronto, and other Canadian cities, transit riders are the minority, and charging car drivers is not going to do anything.

London is getting away with car charges, because drivers are the minority. Even in the Greater London area including suburbs, over half the population uses public transit daily, and hundreds of thousands more walk, bike, etc.

Not the same here. Put a charge in a Canadian city, and the city would probably be dead the next day.

You do not want car charges in Hamilton.

[raisethehammer]

i agree with you.
That's why I find it funny when people respond to my suggestions as though I'm proposing to close our city to cars.
Think people - I'm talking about turning 5-lane streets into 1 or 2 lanes each way with BRT lanes, bike lanes or wider sidewalks/trees depending on the street.
It shows how addicted we are to our cars when those suggestions are met with fear and trembling...Oh no! I might hit the odd red light in Hamilton now!!
Better than hitting pedestrians.

[SteelTown]

Main St I doubt will ever be a two way street. To make Main St two way that would require the city and the province to change a portion of highway 403 and the city to knock down the exit and entrance ramp to the 403 therefore costing millions that the city can't afford.

That would also cut access to west Hamilton forcing people to take Aberdeen St for about a year or two well the city knocks down the ramp and build a new one.

So realistically the city should do the same with Main St as they did with Bay St. Reduced it down to 3 lanes but also include a bus lane for the BRT. Doing that would help make bigger sidewalks.

[DC83]

So realistically the city should do the same with Main St as they did with Bay St. Reduced it down to 3 lanes but also include a bus lane for the BRT. Doing that would help make bigger sidewalks.

I totally agree with you, Steeltown. There is no way Main will ever be two way.

And the one-way system is NOT the reason ppl speed. If you go any faster than 55 km/h you're going to hit red lights. The system is timed so you hit green lights every light aslong as you're going the speed limit!!

Main should be converted into 3 lanes - two lanes dedicated to BRT, seperated from the other 3 lanes with a small tree-lined boulevard. It would look very nice!

[SteelTown]

Since I'm extremely bored at work here's what I did to kill time lol. A visual demonstration of what I think would be good for Main St

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/mainst.jpg

Bigger sidewalks, 3 one way lanes (reduced from 5), a lane for trees (the same kind that's along Main St in front of McMaster) if the city has money perhaps flowers and then a BRT lane.

The Beeline goes in a cicle east from McMaster along Main St and then it goes west from Eastgate along King St so there's only 1 BRT lane needed for Main St.

[the dude]

i'd like to see two lanes for BRT, two lanes for other vehicular traffic and a bike lane. it would still be an unpleasant street to spend time on but what can you do?

you could avoid the massive costs associated with the 403 by converting only part of main to two-way. maybe from dundurn heading east. i don't know, i haven't sat down to really think about that, so maybe it wouldn't make sense.

[SteelTown]

You only need one lane for the BRT on Main St. You could drop the lane of trees for a bike lane.

King St West is going to be converted into a two way street but that's from James to Queen. There's a reason why it stops at Queen, 403 ramp.

[raisethehammer]

downtown I think the BRT should be on Main both ways....from Queen to Victoria. Then King can go 2-way through this stretch and be closed for festivals, events etc....
Main only needs 2 lanes for cars plus 1 BRT each way downtown. East and west of downtown Main should have 24-hour parking spaces on the north curb, 2 car lanes and 1 eastbound BRT lane. King East and West (outside of the core) should also have the same setup - parking on the south curb, 2 lanes for cars and 1 BRT West. Then, Victoria/Wellington and Queen should go 2-way to allow for BRT buses to switch over to Main and King where necessary.
I've been in cars travelling over 100km for several lights on Main before hitting a red. This 55/60km stuff is only true if you want to hit every single light green from 403 to Delta. Racers are more than happy with having long stretches like from Dundurn to Queen or John to Wentworth where they can go over 100km an hour before hitting a red. The lights should be staggered, and there should be more of them (like there are in the Emerald area)

[SteelTown]

You have to be realistic with Main St. there's no way Hamilton will approve a proposal to turn a 5 one way lane into 2 one way lane with staggered lighting. That would cause complete chaos. There’s a reason why the city didn’t do that with Bay St.

The red lights are set up because Main St is the busiest road in Hamilton and if you added staggered lighting instead you'll have cars backed up to the lights the cars already passed therefore complete gridlock during rush hour.

I doubt the city will ever turn King St from James to Victoria into a two way street. Doing that would be one lane each way, unless you take away curb parking, which would completely stall traffic.

[raisethehammer]

i think 2 lanes plust BRT would be more than adequate on King and Main.
Bay St is ridiculous....there should be 24-7 parking on the east curb between King and Main and they don't need two turning lanes onto York...the reason they left it like that is because this is Hamilton and we always overbuild our roadways.
You rarely see more than 2 or 3 cars stopped at the red lights on Bay St.

[the dude]

i think king could be two-way to durdurn. i don't think it would be chaotic at all. main, on the other hand, would be more of a problem. i have no clue why bay is the way it is. no clue whatsoever. i don't get this. there isn't that much traffic in downtown hamilton. i think because main is so wide it gives the impression of great volume. aside from accidents, i can count the number of times i've had to stop in downtown traffic on my one hand. toronto this is not.

[Hammer Town]

They definatly need to do something with the very Un pedestrian freindly Main St. I don't really know what but they need something. Maybe a 2 way change over from Queen to Victoria.

[raisethehammer]

there are 24 lanes of east/west traffic in downtown Hamilton on Main, King, York, Cannon and Barton. 24 lanes!
You've got to cover a large geographic area in similar residential areas in Toronto to find that many high speed (not counting side streets) traffic lanes.
Hamilton is crazy addicted to cars. Look at the old books of Hamilton in Coles and see what downtown used to be like....we could recapture some of that, but only when we decide that people are just as important (in reality, they are more important) as cars passing through (remember, 70% of vehicles in downtown Hamilton are not starting or ending their trip in downtown - it's cut through traffic). We've sacrificed the health of our downtown for single-occupany-vehicle cut-through traffic. Half the folks in my neighbourhood walk/cycle or use transit...we don't need a 6-lane York Blvd...but Hamilton council decided some years ago that they want to accommodate the SOV drivers coming into the core from Burlington. Instead of improving transit from the Mountain (it's only 10-12 minutes on a bus from LimeRide to Gore Park) and Burlington, we've made it easy for SOV drivers to bomb through town without even having the thought of carpooling or using transit crossing their minds. Even if only 10 or 20% began to use transit, we'd see a massive drop in downtown traffic and could eliminate a lot of lanes.
My theory as to why city hall doesn't go down this route is because most of them come in from the burbs and like to drive alone and nail 20 green lights in a row, dodging buses as they go.
All I'm suggesting is balance. No London-style fees, just proper balance for a city that was built and designed for electric transit, people on bikes and walking, along with some vehicles.

[the dude]

i still think LRT is the answer!! we need people discussing this at city hall instead of thinking it's too wild and crazy for the hammer. actually, most of those clowns probably don't even know what LRT is. you could run lines from downtown to mcmaster; a line to eastgate; and a line to the airport for something in the range of $500 million. that's a lot of money but the province and the feds would likely cover half the cost. you could also just do an east-west line to save $$. think of what could have been done with the $200 million we're spending on red hill. they're electric, cheaper to maintain, carry more passengers and they're cooler than buses. people like cool things. i like cool things. cool things are cool.

[raisethehammer]

Right on! LRT is the way to go. Hands down.
And with such extra roadway capacity on Main, King and others we could easily lay down tracks and give LRT it's own lanes through the city without demolishing any buildings or paving over any green space.

[miketoronto]

HAMILTON LRT
STONEY CREEK TO MCMASTER AND EVERYWHERE IN BETWEEN!
http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/routes/images/tram_new.jpg

ENJOY YOUR RIDE TO WORK ON HAMILTON LRT.
http://www.downtowndenver.com/images/LightRail.jpg

ENJOY A DAY DOWNTOWN WITHOUT PARKING HASSLES, WITH HAMILTON LRT.
http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/routes/images/tram_cafe.jpg

35,000 RIDERS A DAY

THE LRT ROUTE
The Hamilton LRT will run east west across lower Hamilton from Stoney Creek to McMaster University. LRT will stop at only the following stops.

-Mohawk College Stoney Creek Campus/Barton Street East
-Green Road-Barton Street
-Gray's Road-Barton
-Gray's Road-Queenston
-Eastgate Square
-Nash Road
-Parkdale Ave
-Kenilworth
-Ottawa
-Sherman
-Wentworth
-Wellington
-Catharine Street
-Gore Park
-Bay Street
-Hess Street
-Locke
-Dundurn
-Longwood
-Westdale
-McMaster

TRAINS WILL RUN EVERY 5-15MIN SEVEN DAYS A WEEK

ALL LRT TRAINS WILL RUN IN DEDICATED LANES. TOTAL TRIP TIME FROM STONEY CREEK TO MCMASTER WILL BE APPROX 30MIN.

LRT in Stoney Creek.
http://www.lightrailnow.org/images/str-lrt-median-res-trees.jpg

LRT in downtown Hamilton, at a new and improved Lloyd D Jackson Square.
http://www.lightrailnow.org/images/por-lrt-downtown-str-ohd.jpg

LRT at McMaster University.
http://www.sacog.org/transit/images/photos/BusPics_8.jpg

COMING SOON, THE MOUNTAIN LRT, CONNECTING McMaster/Downtown Hamilton with Hamilton Mountain and Limeridge Mall.
http://www.rtd-denver.com/LightRail/images/train_alone.gif

[raisethehammer]

Mike, you're killing me....that is so sweet.
It could be done no problem too, that's probably what kills me the most.
I'm happy we've got this BRT system in the works, but nothing compares with light rail. Talk about an economic revival for our east/west lower city.
by the way, the second photo here at the end that you captioned - "past a new and improved Jackson Square" is downtown Portland. I rode that line many, many times during my 4 years there.
Literally, walk out of that mall and hop on the train. so easy to get around.

[SteelTown]

I remember attending that transportation open house at a church and asked one city worker who's dealing with public transit about LRT and he giggled and said "that's LONG LOOONNNGGG time from now, 15-20 years the most". I just nodded and went "alrighty then"

[raisethehammer]

hopefully he gets fired soon.

[flar]

^^at least that city worker didn't dismiss the idea entirely. It realistically would take years to implement LRT. They should be able to set up a BRT system within two years however. It's just too bad they would rather spend hundreds of millions on an expressway rather than something beneficial like the transit system.

[the dude]

mike, you have to stop teasing us down here. very cruel.

your posting was a thing of beauty but i have the nagging feeling that we won't see it in my lifetime. i was born in the late 70s! thanks for the posting, though. i love to fantasize.

by the way, you seem to know a lot about LRT. what would a system like that cost us? i've seen figures as low as $10-15 million/km and as high as $50 million/km. what do you say, home slice?

[miketoronto]

mike, you have to stop teasing us down here. very cruel.

your posting was a thing of beauty but i have the nagging feeling that we won't see it in my lifetime. i was born in the late 70s! thanks for the posting, though. i love to fantasize.

by the way, you seem to know a lot about LRT. what would a system like that cost us? i've seen figures as low as $10-15 million/km and as high as $50 million/km. what do you say, home slice?

I have no idea about how much it would cost. But how expensive could it be really? If there is money for the Red Hill Expressway, then there should be money for LRT.

[MonkeyRonin]

I have no idea about how much it would cost. But how expensive could it be really? If there is money for the Red Hill Expressway, then there should be money for LRT.

Not with a certain someone in power at the moment.

[SteelTown]

Yea look at the situtation Ottawa is in.

[miketoronto]

A LOOK AT WHAT THE HAMILTON LRT WILL LOOK LIKE

LRT on Queenston Road in Stoney Creek.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i32000/img_32809.jpg

LRT STONEY CREEK EXPRESS, running along the railroad right of way near Barton Street. EXPRESS trains will provide service from Stoney Creek to Hamilton General Hospital, Downtown Hamilton, and McMaster, bypassing East Hamilton and making use of railroad right of ways.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29642.jpg

LRT on King Street in East Hamilton.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i18000/img_18591.jpg

LRT on an improving King Street in downtown Hamilton/International Village.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i51000/img_51214.jpg

LRT at King and James Street infront of a new public square in Gore Park.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29658.jpg

LRT on James Street going twords Hamilton Mountain.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29622.jpg

http://images.nycsubway.org//i51000/img_51190.jpg

LRT on King Street in West Hamilton, approaching Westdale.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29654.jpg

LRT on King West.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i24000/img_24924.jpg

McMaster University Station.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i51000/img_51232.jpg

HAMILTON'S NEW SKYLINE. THANKS TO LRT, DOWNTOWN HAMILTON IS BECOMING THE SECOND BUSINESS CENTRE OF THE GOLDEN HORSESHOE AFTER TORONTO. BUSINESS CAN NOW SET UP OFFICES IN DOWNTOWN HAMILTON AND NOT WORRY ABOUT PARKING PROBLEMS. NEW SKYSCRAPERS ARE RISING ALONG THE LRT ROUTE IN DOWNTOWN HAMILTON. DOWNTOWN HAMILTON WILL TOP THE 100,000 MARK FOR DOWNTOWN WORKERS.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29601.jpg

[SteelTown]

Torture! lol

And the thing is we have National Steel Car in Hamilton that could easliy give us a discount price in laying the tracks down. Back in the days they used to make streetcars for the HSR, National Steel Car Streetcars.

Just do a google search of National Steel Car Streetcars and check the images.

With LRT we could be doing a double whammy by improving public transit and helping our a local company.

[raisethehammer]

frig....you're killing me even more now with these pics of Portland....that entire tour is Portland. TOD development exists all around the city now thanks to their LRT.

[miketoronto]

raisethehammer, the funny thing is that Hamilton has higher transit use then Portland. So just think what ridership would be like with LRT in Hamilton.

Portland's per capita transit ridership is 35.7, while Hamilton's per capital transit ridership is 45.5.

[the dude]

i realize that i live in a fantasy world but this is ridiculous!

[raisethehammer]

explain those 'per capita' transit numbers.... is that 'trips per 1,000 people' or something like that?
Hamilton could be a real transit-centred city given our urban, dense development in the lower city and even northern half of the mountain.

[matt602]

It's nice to see positive thinking, but I'm really not taking it all that serious. I think limiting our thoughts to the BRT is a safe bet. I'm sure LRT is WAY off in the future (no matter how much it is needed).

BRT and changing one way streets to two way is what we'll see in the next 10 years. Good thing about BRT is that it paves the way for LRT, making the transition very smooth.

[raisethehammer]

you're right Matt....but for LRT the planning needs to start soon to see lines built 10 or 15 years from now....North America is an over-bureacratic mess. Nothing is done simply or easily, including LRT.

[miketoronto]

explain those 'per capita' transit numbers.... is that 'trips per 1,000 people' or something like that?
Hamilton could be a real transit-centred city given our urban, dense development in the lower city and even northern half of the mountain.

Per capital numbers are just the average number of times residents board transit in a year.

So in Hamilton the average resident boards transit 45.5 time a year. The higher the number, the more transit is used. In Toronto its something like 120 times a year or something.

[raisethehammer]

where does one find stats like that?

[miketoronto]

You can get unofficial stats by taking the yearly ridership of HSR and dividing it into the population of the area the transit service provides service to.

My stats came from the famous Wendle Cox, who yes is weird, but he does keep good ridership stats for the most part. He has a complete list of per capita ridership stats that I have even checked into myself more, and seem to be very correct.

We are very behind in our ridership though. European cities approach the 200-300 per capita mark pretty easy in the large cities.

EXAMPLE
Toronto Transit Commission: Yearly ridership last year was around 420 million.

So we take 420 million and divide it by the population of the city of Toronto(2.6 million). We get a per capital ridership of 161 rides per capital in the city of Toronto. Of course we should do it on a metropolitan wide basis, but its just an example.

[flar]

I wonder what the transit statistics would be just for the lower city? I know that routes that I frequent (1, 2, 5, 10) are completely full on weekdays.
The Barton bus is crazy. It runs every 7 min yet it's usually packed. And it's loud and full of drama and the most bizarre conversations!

[raisethehammer]

yea, the Barton bus is sweet...makes you feel like you're in T.O. or Vancouver.

[SteelTown]

The one thing I would love to see is streetcars back on Barton St. I think that's more doable then changing two way streets and LRT plus it would help Barton St redevelop with lofts and condos. But these streetcars gotta be like 1920's or something replica not something modern so that it would match within Barton Village type atmosphere.

[matt602]

Ah yes the Garlic Express. There's no route in the city like it. You get all kinds of weirdo's and eccentrics. It's a very busy route. Every run during the weekdays is packed at some point on the route. Even on the weekends during the day it is usually packed. It seems the pack starts at Ottawa St. and just keeps getting worse as the bus gets closer to downtown, same thing when coming back but in reverse. Increased service to this route to every 5 minutes would be very much needed. Probably the second busiest route in the city after King.

During the rush hour on weekdays, the bus usually can't load any more people past Wentworth. Going East, it fills up at the stops on Hughson, usually running all the way to Wentworth before it thins out enough for people to get on. I have seen up to 30 people get on at the stop at the Bingo Hall. Very busy stop.

[miketoronto]

Heres an idea to the crowding problem :)


ROUTE 2E BARTON EXPRESS
During weekday rush hour and midday periods, route 2E BARTON EXPRESS buses will provide additional serice along the busy Barton Street corridor.

BARTON EXPRESS buses will provide local service between Bell Manor Loop and Ottawa Street. Buses will then run EXPRESS to Downtown Hamilton stopping only at Wentworth Street, and Hamilton General Hospital.
EXPRESS buses will run every 15min.

COMING SOON
ROUTE 55E STONEY CREEK-BARTON SUPER EXPRESS
Buses will run during peak hours Mon-Fri.
Buses will run local from Levi Loop to Eastgate Square, then EXPRESS to Downtown Hamilton and McMaster University.

[raisethehammer]

I've always wondered why the Barton and Cannon don't run over to Mac....kind of strange.
It would be a simple addition to the routing.
Perhaps Barton needs 5 minute service including some new articulated buses.

[matt602]

Really I don't see a need for it. It's very easy to get off downtown and transfer to a Beeline or a 1A. Are the busses that go to MacMaster really crowded enough to warrant another bus route serving it? Really, I don't know... I never go to Mac.

[flar]

Agree with Matt, there's no need for Barton to go to Mac. Very few people are going from Barton to Mac, and at King and James you can transfer to 1A, 10, 5, 5C, or 52 to get to mac.

[SteelTown]

Really I don't see a need for it. It's very easy to get off downtown and transfer to a Beeline or a 1A. Are the busses that go to MacMaster really crowded enough to warrant another bus route serving it? Really, I don't know... I never go to Mac.

Hell yea buses going towards Mac is always friggin full of people. I think once the new buses come it should help but I'm afraid it'll become popular and soon the BRT towards Mac will be crowded once again.

[miketoronto]

THE GREAT CIRCLE LINE
-New bus route connecting Hamilton's major trip generators together via a fast express bus service.
Buses will run in a loop around Hamilton. The buses will run in a clockwise and counter clockwise pattern to offer two way services.

Buses will run stopping only at the following stops, forming a loop around Hamilton.

EATEGATE SQUARE, OTTAWA STREET-BARTON, BAYFRONT PARK, HAMILTON GENERAL HOSPITAL, DOWNTOWN HAMILTON, WESTDALE, MCMASTER UNIVERSITY, MEADOWLANDS, MOHAWK COLLEGE FENNEL, LIMERIDE MALL, EASTGATE SQUARE.

BUSES WILL CONNECT WITH HSR ROUTES IN DOWNTOWN HAMILTON, EASTGATE SQUARE, MCMASTER, MEADOWLANDS, AND LIMRIDGE.

PARK AND RIDE LOTS AT MEADOWLANDS, EASTGATE AND LIMRIDGE.

[raisethehammer]

I'm in the process of developing an article for RTH with (what I think) is a brilliant plan for transit in Hamilton.
I'll be interested to get feedback from you folks once it's published.

[matt602]

THE GREAT CIRCLE LINE
-New bus route connecting Hamilton's major trip generators together via a fast express bus service.
Buses will run in a loop around Hamilton. The buses will run in a clockwise and counter clockwise pattern to offer two way services.

Buses will run stopping only at the following stops, forming a loop around Hamilton.

EATEGATE SQUARE, OTTAWA STREET-BARTON, BAYFRONT PARK, HAMILTON GENERAL HOSPITAL, DOWNTOWN HAMILTON, WESTDALE, MCMASTER UNIVERSITY, MEADOWLANDS, MOHAWK COLLEGE FENNEL, LIMERIDE MALL, EASTGATE SQUARE.

BUSES WILL CONNECT WITH HSR ROUTES IN DOWNTOWN HAMILTON, EASTGATE SQUARE, MCMASTER, MEADOWLANDS, AND LIMRIDGE.

PARK AND RIDE LOTS AT MEADOWLANDS, EASTGATE AND LIMRIDGE.

I gotta say you've got some pretty interesting transit ideas. Keep em coming.

[the dude]

Hell yea buses going towards Mac is always friggin full of people. I think once the new buses come it should help but I'm afraid it'll become popular and soon the BRT towards Mac will be crowded once again.

i'll second that motion. it can be a real challenge getting a bus from mac. bus after bus after bus is crammed to capacity. that's the irony of this city; people do take the bus. now give us more, jerks!! at least a few articulated ones.

oh ya, if we want LRT in our lifetime we need to start planning now. in ottawa, LRT discussions began decades ago and they're still squabbling about it!

[realcity]

A LOOK AT WHAT THE HAMILTON LRT WILL LOOK LIKE

LRT on Queenston Road in Stoney Creek.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i32000/img_32809.jpg

LRT STONEY CREEK EXPRESS, running along the railroad right of way near Barton Street. EXPRESS trains will provide service from Stoney Creek to Hamilton General Hospital, Downtown Hamilton, and McMaster, bypassing East Hamilton and making use of railroad right of ways.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29642.jpg

LRT on King Street in East Hamilton.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i18000/img_18591.jpg

LRT on an improving King Street in downtown Hamilton/International Village.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i51000/img_51214.jpg

LRT at King and James Street infront of a new public square in Gore Park.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29658.jpg

LRT on James Street going twords Hamilton Mountain.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29622.jpg

http://images.nycsubway.org//i51000/img_51190.jpg

LRT on King Street in West Hamilton, approaching Westdale.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29654.jpg

LRT on King West.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i24000/img_24924.jpg

McMaster University Station.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i51000/img_51232.jpg

HAMILTON'S NEW SKYLINE. THANKS TO LRT, DOWNTOWN HAMILTON IS BECOMING THE SECOND BUSINESS CENTRE OF THE GOLDEN HORSESHOE AFTER TORONTO. BUSINESS CAN NOW SET UP OFFICES IN DOWNTOWN HAMILTON AND NOT WORRY ABOUT PARKING PROBLEMS. NEW SKYSCRAPERS ARE RISING ALONG THE LRT ROUTE IN DOWNTOWN HAMILTON. DOWNTOWN HAMILTON WILL TOP THE 100,000 MARK FOR DOWNTOWN WORKERS.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29601.jpg

That's brilliant. and exactly what would happen. Gorgeous photos. Thanks

[raisethehammer]

Goregeous photos - no kidding.
You know how many times I rode those exact trains in Portland....the Hillsboro and Gresham line....ahh, the good old days in a proper city.

Portland didn't always look like that....it looked a lot like Hamilton's northeast area before light rail.